Forum Post: I'm here to listen! What is it you want to be heard?
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 30, 2011, 8:53 p.m. EST by blazefire
(947)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Say your piece! Be a voice! If you are a person, then you are a part of the people and should have a voice, LOUD AND CLEAR! Speak and be heard!
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Please feel free to give feedback on whatever is being said in this thread, there has been some incredible voices, and voices that are probably thinking along the same lines as yourself. Please input where you can, encourage where possible, and follow the links! Some of them are simply AMAZING!
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If your looking for a way to help the movement, from where you are sitting, right now for no money....
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-that-you-can-do-right-now-from-where-you/
"I'm sorry but I don't want to be an emperor. That's not my business. I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone if possible; Jew, Gentile, black men, white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each others' happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men's souls; has barricaded the world with hate; has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge as made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in man; cries out for universal brotherhood; for the unity of us all.
Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women, and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me, I say "Do not despair." The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish.
Soldiers! Don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and enslave you; who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think and what to feel! Who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder! Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men---machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have a love of humanity in your hearts! You don't hate! Only the unloved hate; the unloved and the unnatural.
Soldiers! Don't fight for slavery! Fight for liberty! In the seventeenth chapter of St. Luke, it’s written “the kingdom of God is within man”, not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people, have the power, the power to create machines, the power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then in the name of democracy, let us use that power.
Let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men a chance to work, that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfill their promise. They never will! Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world! To do away with national barriers! To do away with greed, with hate and intolerance! Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness.
Soldiers, in the name of democracy, let us all unite! "
http://www.unitinghumans.com/
Love that speech! I recommend the link too! http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/11/ourwallstreet-occupywallstreet.html
I LOVE it!!! Yeah! You have a passion worth expression! I think you would really like my work:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Check it out! "The only cure is unity"
The speech of a thousand years. The speech of American rebels throwing off the tyranny of the country which banished them to "America". And it continues...the king is always on the hill. Certain individuals are possessed of the will to power, and must forever be opposed by those who only want enough. Will this ever change? Time is now.
Never gets old! http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/11/ourwallstreet-occupywallstreet.html
WOOOOOOO!!!!! Yeah! What care should I have for my gas bill when you destroy my planet! What care should I have in your taxes, when our children are sent to kill and be killed! What place is it, that I can be sold, and my family can be sold! BE THE VOICE!! Wooooooo!
join me at http://www.iaej.org
I need soldiers!
We need NO war.... then NO-ONE ever needs them again!
[Removed]
That is what we all should be doing. trying to understand one another. spend more time listening and less time with our mouths open. training web page http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43
WOW! Anyone who wants to see some good material should check out the above link! That's fantastic stuff! I may also bring it...with your permission of course to the attention of the community at large (I presume this is part of your intent), and, if I may be presumptuous, I would love to gift you with work of my own....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Just wanted to say another quick thx! I've managed to pass that site around, and I'm getting really good feedback... I haven't had a chance to digest it all yet.... but i will! Thnx again!
thanks, i want to help- i am adding to it daily, just added stuff like Rosetta stone English, free, for members where English is their second language - for people outside of the usa, fighting for their freedom. . Nonviolent -direct action "Training" Web page. +++++++++++++++ dedicated to those of you who believe in the nonviolent struggle model, and especially to all of you who are willing to dedicate your time and energy to nonviolent struggle for a
better future of your homelands.
http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43
http://vgdhi.cjb.net
Great! Great stuff!!!
Emphatic Ditto to blazefire's post re. jsmth's rarther excellent "training web page" link ! Everday is Training Day !! per ardua ad astra ...~~~*
"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people"
"Through adversity to the Stars". royal air force?
@ js : Or "By Hard Work to The Stars" ;-) & also please see 'mast head' {and Web-site too} of : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ . Re. RAF, me - no ; but their latin motto has a deeper spiritual significance 'peut etre' ! multum in parvo ...
woooooohoooooo!!!! GO the truth!
My intellect trumps your insults My facts trump your fiction and my logic trumps your lies
come to me in any disguise! For I know truth.
Caveat : Leave Hubris to The ~1% & their Dark ~0.01% Overlords ~~{;-)
Mundus Vult decipi! Seeker of knowledge! Welcome are all at the table of truth and here to stand amongst the fruit....hehehe love the attitude! Per ardua ad astra!!!
"Mundus Vult Decipi ... !" Ergo, Fiat Lux ;-)
Damn you, shadz, and your Latin quotes (shakes fist in air)! Thank god for Google Translate, at least for us monolinguals. ;-) (-;
Peace, my brother!
@ 'gno(sis)' ~~{;-) & Top Tip = I seldom construct a new phrase, preferring instead to use {& sometimes splice} standard, well known Latin Phrases, so just 'Google' alone should do it ! pax ;-)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. ROFL!
Not another one!! You're . . . driving . . . me . . . crazy (heh heh heh)! Welcome to the forum blazefire. Don't recognize the username, so I assume you're fairly recent. Good, we need all the intellect we can muster. Hope you don't get discouraged like so many before you.
In finem poterimus nos!
Hey, I think I'm getting the hang of this!
Hey! Check out this site:
They have less traffic and overall info... but more intellect and organisation! I think you'll love it!
http://occupytogether.com/forum/discussions
Just one more place for ideas! And btw yeah I'm pretty new... but I'm eternally old! Check out the links on this page! some of them are pretty good... "this WOULD be cooler in latin..."
Thanks for that link. I will certainly check it out. I've bookmarked it for future perusal.
I am just going to name one thing I want to see but this is the first thing that must be done before anything else can be addressed. Get the money out of politics. now this solution below is derived from another person's post but i have made my own changes...
I propose getting the money out of politics by setting a limit on campaign contributions to a predetermined amount (see below) to come only from private voting age citizens (PEOPLE) who are living within the area that the candidate represents. No corporate contributions from within or outside the candidates area. No contributions from special interests of any kind, be they union, NRA, or corporate PACs. Only people who can actually vote for a particular candidate can give money to him. No candidate can use his own personal money for his campaign, but only money contributed by voters in his area.
To be clear: US Representatives can get money only from voting PEOPLE within their district, Senators from voting PEOPLE withing their state, and The president from voting PEOPLE of the US... etc (Mayors from voting people within their city/town.)
Now how to come up with a predetermined amount: Find the median yearly income for the US. Calculate 1% of this income and that will be the limit per voting age citizen (PERSON) given to all offices at the federal level combined during a calendar year. Find the median yearly income for your state. Calculate 1% of this income and that will be the limit per voting age citizen (PERSON) given to all offices at the state level combined during a calendar year. Another 1% of the median yearly income for your state can be used on all other political candidates combined not at the state or federal level (i.e. representative, mayor, councilperson, comptroller etc.)
An example of this played out. I live in Syracuse NY. I can give a total of $312 to a presidential candidate or split it between several. I can give a total of $331 to all positions at state level... senatorial candidates, gubernatorial etc. I can give a total of $331 to all elected positions not at the state or federal. These all constitute maximums that can be given. There is no minimum.
Funds must be given in the current year. No carryover from years you could not give. Funds received by candidates must be used by the end of the following calendar year or else be forfeited into a public fund. Candidates who drop out before depleting their funds must forfeit the unused portion in a public fund.
Federal money would go into a federal fund and all other money would go into a state fund. The funds would be sued for nonpolitical purposes that benefit all citizens equally.
I am open to making edits based on suggestions.
Hmmmmm I like it. I would like to table this though. This is limited to an 'American' solution. Is that really what is needed now? This movement has gone global...is that how it should be? I think the core of this should be something read then re-read, for the philosophies of the premises of this work show what is lacking in our current situation and what is needed in a future one. I think this is the sort of discourse needed.
I agree with you that their needs to be a better solution globally.
However in order to implement something that would work globally we would have to have a globally regulated economy/political structure. This is a solution that would be a good start nationally... but we could try other possibilities at other levels.
This would keep the current system mostly intact but take corporate influence out of national politics.
another level is that we go after the corporations on a global scale, or go after politics on a global scale or a combination of both. first of all, how do we even begin to do this? And second of all would our chances of success go down if we tried to tackle this globally? I think that we DO need a global solution but trying to tackle it now would be biting off more than we can chew. Plus it would mean trying to establish one world side political and economic system and that makes me uneasy. I could be won over with a solution of that size but I would have to know the details in book/novel form.
And btw.... as a national scale.....perfect.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Done! As requested! Spread the word!
Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gini_Coefficient_World_CIA_Report_2009-1.png . Note that the Germany, one of the world's foremost remaining economic powerhouses, has a Gini coefficient a little more than half that of the U.S - which is at the same level as China, Mexico, Ecuador, Venezuela ... but nobody in the First World. The people who want to cut taxes for the rich, abolish inheritance tax, but raise FICA tax, tax employee heath care contributions, tax mortgages, end efforts to keep college affordable for the middle class - they don't think the rich are getting richer fast enough. They want a Gini coefficient above .50, maybe above .60 - they're shooting to achieve the most unfair distribution of wealth in the world. And they relentlessly hammer on OWS saying that they are "looking for handouts", that they want to "redistribute the wealth", that they want "class war". No, that's what the wealthy interests are doing in this country. And if they keep doing it they're going to reach the point where our society is just as dangerous and torn by violence as those other Third World countries we're modeling ourselves upon. OWS doesn't have the power to actually stop these people - it's just, they're one of the last forlorn voices left telling them to stop before they go over the edge and leave this country and the world in a state that nobody is going to like.
AMEN! The rich are killing the goose that laid the golden egg right before our eyes, and not just here, all over the world. All for short-term gains. They must be pretty sure they've thrown so much fossil fuel up its a race to see who can die richest! Why else would they be racing to throw the world back into the dark ages? Who wants to be a big fish in a smaller less flashy pond? They've lost their ever loving minds.
The insanity goes pretty deep.... but what can we do?
I really think its time to limit our junk spending. Lets look at the music industry and the movie producers who think anti piracy laws will revive sales. People don't have the money for much these days, what has changed is people have less disposable income. If laws are passed we don't like, lets move back to dial up and basic cable. Lets not go to the movies, lets wait six months and rent the video. Home owners need to demand their county reassess their home value and brings those taxes down. Used cars are not taxed and insured as much as new cars. Think about the trinkets like the PS3's, xboxes, ereaders, iphones and what their actual value really is. Living in the modern world means we have access to some really neat kitchen gadgets and craft supplies. You don't have to sit around and stare at the wall. You can step back and have fun doing other things. You can make jewelry with glass beads and leave the diamonds to be used for saws. I have been angry for a long time, I didn't just wake up to this. I felt alone and this is how I rebelled for years. Whole unprocessed foods are good for you, cooking from scratch isn't that hard. The question is are people engaged enough to live differently? Are they going to work two jobs so they can pay for the brand new car? Will we continue to enslave ourselves further and worry about keeping up appearances? If married women boycotted the labor force, there would be a labor shortage and wages would be forced to go up. Hey, she could earn more than her husband, and he could stay home, I'm not being sexist here. I'm mad enough. Are you mad enough yet?
The most important thing people can do is vote with their dollars. http://freeindependentsun.com/permanomics/occupy-the-market-how-to-vote-with-your-dollar/
Other sites have good ideas too. Ubuntu is free, I have it and windows on my machine and both work fine you may need a new wireless thingy (or a direct connection) as the ones sold at Walmart tend to only work with windows many aren't Linux ready, research before you buy. Think about putting it on and letting the kids download some of the older style free strategy games and things to play on it rather than running out buying new PS3 games this year. Have xmas, just make a budget and stick to it. When you can't buy locally, and you can't buy American, and you can't get it used, think about ordering direct from china(almost too late this year), no point in paying huge mark ups if you can order it off ebay. People ran to the Black Friday sales but I think a lot of that is bargain hunting to stay with in smaller budgets. People can make lifestyle changes and affect who wins and looses in the market. Really, wouldn't it be nice to sit around coloring free lineart gotten off deviant art and printed right on your own printer with a nice set of watercolor pencils rather than going to the movies or playing PS3 or Xbox games? Think about what you buy and how you use it to create quality time with other people this year! Happy savings!
There are some really good points in terms of what can be done, without even leaving the house!
And I think it raises an even greater point, that is, what is it that has happened to the family unit over the years, more specifically, how does the family unit respond to this 'new world', of capitalism, and greed? I think MANY of our societal problems stem from an unstable and untennable family unit.... You pose very simple and effective ways of 'combating', this 'madness'.... How do we promote it? How do we institute such policies, and how do we 'beat', the propaganda of our marketing world?
BTW Love the comments! Awesome!
First we recognize that all people may not be able to all the things suggested. I mean if you are on foodstamps and Walmart is the only store open and your kids haven't had supper.....Make it easy, don't compete with the huge Black Friday sale type things that are advertised to death. Like the republicans don't say capitalist this week, don't say used, say recycled, its good for everybody and the planet! Bring whole foods and simpler living into the picture. People are familiar with these concepts. Trolls can go on buying their flashy stuff because they think what they have acquired makes them a better kind of human being than the rest of us. Besides they might own stock in these companies, they might not know what their hedge fund is doing this week. When they promote going into the community ask OWS supporters to donate time at charities and thrift stores and get to know real people. You'd be surprised how many people visit the thrift stores and food pantries. If you happen to be a Christian who doesn't support the politicians or want to legislate morality but protect the actual freewill God wanted us to have so desperately, its okay to say so. Make getting the money out of politics number one. Talk about busting up big monopolies and virtual monopolies or regulating them and stopping unfair trade tactics that hurt entrepreneurs and small businesses like Walmart or like our Gas and electric companies. We want freedom but we want people who break the law and faith of the people to be held to task like the banks. Let people know their dollars no matter how small are important and how they spend them makes a difference. And that its isn't for a week, or a month or a holiday. Every little bit helps, if you don't like something, vote with your dollars every single day.
THAT would take some moxy. I think your spot on. And I think a lot of the points you just mentioned is what OWS is all about.... ACHIEVING those things, and more. There are links up throughout these pages of a book I've written, mentioning many of those exact points. I couldn't agree with you more....HOW, is the big question though, how, do we get from here to there?
ie: How do we get everyone to play that way?
I honestly don't know. Many were willing to camp out. People might surprise you. Even the Christian Republicans think everyone is crazy to keep spending money we don't have on junk we don't need that isn't enriching our souls or the planet in any way.
Occupy everything! WOOOT! Educate, agitate, organise! Discourse till we get recourse! Revolution is the solution! Carpe diem! Per ardua ad astra!!!
I didn't know any of that! Woah! Hmmmm.... it's good to know though that there are conscientious people like yourself looking this stuff up. Makes me think it can be changed. In fact I'd say it gives me hope.
HOPE my friend. Thats why I started this post. because that is always the last thing to hold on too... AND I wanted to give it to you too. We have to believe. We CAN. We can imagine a better future. We can Imagine our children at play. There is always hope.
And your voice will be included too. I'm not trying to be some sort of weirdo, I'm saying that the only system that could work is one that heard all of us right?
Break the stranglehold of the republicrat party.
Do you think that would work? What do you think that would change?
Might give an opportunity for influence of other points of view.
Do you believe that would be enough? And to what extent and end? hmmmmm I definitely think we need a forum for more points of view. And a place where such things are heard. Check out some of the other links on this thread.... Some really good ideas!
It would be a start.
Agreed. What would you say that the end would look like? If that was the start? What SHOULD the end look like? What end should we work towards in this beginning?
A dismantling of the power structure.
Hmmmmm I would say this is exactly the end that occupy is working towards.... What next is the real question I guess...
we need to upgrade a Defcon notch, can we form diplomatic parties, for negotiation, we could send diplomats to small business, organise a chain of supply, send occupying squads to occupy lands to guarantee the supplies, form a macro economy that is free and fair, form an occupy political party, an occupy guard or militia, send diplomats to the farmlands to garner a supply and demand for fair / cruelty free farmers, talk to polititians and create a registrar of polititians who aren't corrupted, who are intelligent, and are willing to support OWS, negotiate the support of the green party, the socialist party, and indepentant polititians, send negotiators to lawyers, judges, the amry, the police force, attempt to negotiate agreements, understandings with their internal heiracy
WOW! Definitely....WOW! Some real simple solutions. Create our OWN global nation...!!! What a notion! I second that motion. Vox populi, vox Dei !
Occupy is a movement. Movements are messy.
Don't be discourages by the messiness of Occupy. That is just how movements are. They are full of people, and people are like cats in that they wander off in all directions. But people are unlike cats, because they can eventually get big things done.
Two other huge movements have been abolition of slavery, and women's rights. Both are still going on in parts of the world. But both have made amazing differences in people's lives.
A few generations ago in the U.S., a married woman didn't even own her own clothes. Hard to imagine, right?
These movements were hugely messy. There were endless side issues. There were endless disagreements. There were arguments about the smallest things. But they moved forward. Not neatly, though.
Don't give up when Occupy is messy. That's how movements are.
Here it is:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse
Warning: It's pretty long.
O.k. Sooooo just finished a little more of a thorough digestion..... I think your on the right track. And I think anyone with interest would do well to look at the above link! Like you said though it's an evolution...and I think THAT there is the most relevant point of all... we need to exist in a constant state of evolution...
Revolution, Evolution... I'm not real picky about which one we get.
As long as things change for the better.
Long is what I would call the list of things that need fixing! Interesting is what I would call your post. I haven't had a chance to really digest it yet.... but I will! There is just so much info to digest here!
Thanks, glad you're intrigued.
It's an organic document so it gets updated pretty frequently.
Feedback and constructive criticism on it is always welcome.
http://metapolitik.org/contact
I think its exactly what we need! More discourse! More debate! Question everything!
If your just scanning this thread....theres some absolutely mind boggling links in here...
Thats right....I'm listening to YOU!
Thanks!
Who are you? Who, who, who, who? Cause I really want to know.
Are you the one that will get things done? Are you an "important" person?
So you are here to listen. Well, who are you?
My name is Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris....lol....hehehehe....I wanna know you too!
And most ccertainly I am someone, that WILL get things done, I would argue, though, that so are you! AND that you already have accomplished more than you realise, as I have, simply by being here and inputing, and, adding YOUR voice to the collective one.
I personally am no-one, and some-one, and if anyone can do anything, then I am anyone also.
The big question I suppose is:
What is it that you want accomplished? AND....how can I help?
Chris
I think this is what we as a nation should do with it election time the divisions really show up and it isn't a time to get things done its a time to haggle. we need unity despite our differences. There won't be any improvement in the next year and a half Corruption,Unemployment, All the problems you are demonstrating about will continue maybe even expand.Think about this as a country not a political party or group....www.nationalday911.org
thnx for your input! I agree we do need more unity! Solidarity. Defendit numerus. Vox populi, vox Dei.
How would you suggest we could create real unity? What would an action plan look like?
www.nationalday911.org this is the best thing I could put together its a basic layout but as soon as OWS gets their list of delegates I'm going to try and get them to consider it.I already put it on a couple of the ....List your thoughts forum posts
The perfect place to occupy!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
YAY for occupy!
check this out!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-that-you-can-do-right-now-from-where-you/
Big thnx again for all the input!
Do You Support Wikileaks? * Please help us petition the White House to stop President Barck Obama from imposing harsh economic sanctions against a promising young African nation whose innocence has been proven by secret US embassy cables released by Wikileaks. Your signature can really save the lives of 5 million people. Thank you.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/vindicated-by-wikileaks-but-not-freed-from-accusat/
http://www.citicommons.com/contributors/jesse-heffran
Hey, I just read that link, and yes, live and let live will not cut it.... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
And yes, the 1% are doing exactly what the system is demanding 1% of people to do. It is not their fault that a system demands there be a 1%. They just happen to be the ones to fulfil that role, which of course, leads to the next question. What's wrong with the system? And how do we fix it/build a new one?
i finally finished reading your dissertation and i enjoyed your views. It reminds me of an organism, the earth, that is evolving. it is kinda like a human body--with all its different bacteria and cells working together but never knowing it--aging. we are those cells recreating a single consciousness. I think of this type of stuff when ever I read about Chaos Theory. life is just life recreating its self ad infinitum.
Exactly!
Thank-you for your words! Please do pass it forward, so that the information may spread! Help this reach as many people as possible, so that, like a retro virus, we can arrest the disease of our time....Omnia vincit amor.
Cheers!
Thnx to everyone for contributing!
"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" — Max Stirner
"Speak, speak, speak, & remember that whenever anyone's liberty to speak is denied, your liberty is denied also, & your place is where the attack is.." — Voltairine De Cleyre "I build no system. I ask an end to privilege, the abolition of slavery, equality of rights, and the reign of law. Justice, nothing else.That is the alpha and omega of my argument." — Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"The State is the curse of the individual. . . The State must go! That will be a revolution which will find me on its side. Undermine the idea of the State, set up in its place spontaneous action, and the idea that spiritual relationship is the only thing that makes for unity, and you will start the elements of a liberty which will be something worth possessing." — Henrik Ibsen
Well said.... by some that could not join us today....
I want my strategies and others to be heard: http://occupywallst.org/forum/flash-protesting-an-idea-to-consider/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-should-we-split-the-police-into-2-factions/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/did-anyone-thought-about-using-torrents/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/does-ows-need-pirate-broadcasting/
Hmmm just looked through it all, and I have to say the flash mobbing (ie first link) was one of the best ideas I've heard all day.... SO simple! The internet itself is under attack so more "pirate" means of establishing communications for revolutionaries may be necessary.... we'll see... Check this discussion out...
It has some very interesting points on this topic!
http://www.occupytogether.org/discuss/#/discussion/894/stop-the-internet-blacklist-billprotect-ip-actsopa . Don't worry! You can never stop an Idea!!!
Find out who has taken the pledge to lobbyist Grover Norquist to protect the 1% from all tax increases. (They call it the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, but they actually protect only the super rich.)
Now that you know who they are, in both parties, support their opponents and remove them from office.
This is a step to getting removing the money stranglehold on politics, and it is something we could do. They have money, but we have votes.
yes I think that sounds reasonable.... but do you think we can limit this to american politics now? This has gone international, and viral. Should we start dragging our long lost wish out into the fore? World peace? Or do you think american politics will be enough? I think this is global, now, same as the problems are also global, and I think we need to face it on that level.... but I think your ideas are awesome! Thx!
I can only speak to what I know, and that is our politics. I do not know enough to give advice to dedicated people in other countries.
Cleaning up politics here will be a huge task, but the OWS movement has given me hope that we can make progress. We need to find a way to come at the entrenched political class from a new angle, and believe that moving against these "pledgers" will be an effective tactic.
I would only disagree with that first part! Your human my friend! And that gives you every right to talk about every human, world wide. These corporations ARE global. And have BEEN global for a long time now. I'm not suggesting we arbitrarily decide anything for anyone else, I suggest we find ways to work together...We are the constant that is humanity. All national politics is, is a study of how to control and utilise the flow of ideas. From people. From humanity. We are the 99%!!!! (cliche I know,lol) I think the time has come...world peace, or world war... whether ur american, australian, or polish.... that question effects us all... Btw I'm from Australia!
There are things I know about people, and certainly things I'd advise all people to do, but you asked about politics. I think there is a lot of hot air and hubris, with people talking about things they are ignorant of. I am not well informed on the political system of Australia, for example.
I have started making kiva loans, which is my way of reaching out across the oceans. It is a way of helping people, and it is anti-corporate. Please visit kiva.org and consider join us!
Beyond that, I'd rather see one small, constructive approach implemented than a lot of grand ideas thrown around. If we could undermine one of the biggest, baddest, most powerful lobbyists in the U.S., that would actually accomplish something. (I think it's no accident that the U.S. created the mess that led to the Great Recession far from our shores.)
Now, if my idea sparks an idea in you that can work in Australia, I'd be thrilled. So my underlying reasoning is this: we want money to be much, much less powerful in politics. A lot of people in this forum site are wanting laws passed or a constitutional amendment passed. That puts us head to head with powerful lobbyists. We need to undermine one of the worst of the lobbyists by using our power, which is our votes. This is a way of coming at them from the side, not head on.
If that applies where you are, roll with it!
Hey mate! just wondering have you had a chance to have a look at that book?.... I've had some awesome feedback, and I was hoping for yours! you have some really unique viewpoints, and I'd love to hear them!
YES! To everything. I would however love to point your attention to the fact....(I don't wish it were so).... of the same corporation paying politicians in Capital Hill, are paying politicians in Canberra. Coke is here, there and everywhere. Ultimately, they are the ones with the power and the money to shift attitudes and lobbyists, from whatever nation or creed. I think (my opinion only) that this is the beginning of a globalisation of the people, for the people (occupy that is). And until we look at the enormity of corporations like Coke, we can never see the true issues at hand, and, given enough time they will return (in one form or another).
I also believe that you raise excellent points (checked out Kiva btw.... and it was awesome), that could be applied in EVERY nation.... and why not? If one system is better for people than another, then why would it NOT be adopted(people are people wherever you go)? I think the issues you have talked of stem from core concerns that effect and afflict ALL people regardless of nationality, race, colour or creed.
Things like greed are universal. We need to combat them, universally.
And yes, there is much talk. 'hot air' is a necessary bi-product of intellectual discourse. And so much of the latter is required, that much of the former has appeared. I also like to hear you talk of hope. Ultimately thats why I created THIS thread. Because I saw many people who just need an ear, and needed some hope. Profit before people... thats the problem. Hopelessness, and despair.... Thats a problem... Can we really counter the things we are facing through the politics of ANY nation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB2t3Sd-viQ Government employee caught redhanded falsifying info and making apllications disapear. court aquitted. a true gem when you need to highlight corruption, use this. download with antplayer.
Woah..... woah..... That is FULL on..... Woah...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAbK9F7SzM8 document of shame what is going on with our kids? Why are there so many kids abducted and how do the kids from USA end up in Europe?
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/128/215-med-revolutions-tyrants-and-wars/ history lesson without the gruesome pictures. Who were and are behind the christians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rizwoxB4qqQ this is the truth if you can handle it. it was the christians who killed most people in death camps during the war. erased from history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=779qk8ZbCKY&feature=related
Those links are INTENSE. However Whatever religion those people at the time followed, clearly has no relevance on those that follow that religion today;ie. whatever religion a 'perpetrator' follows, has no relevance on the religions of others.
The same kind of people that were high up in the Christian religion then are still there today. Not the same people but the same kind of people. Same goes for the Layolas, order of Malta etc.
Hmmmm maybe, but whether that holds merit or not (not saying it doesn't), joe smith the christian, shouldn't cop any crap for simply believing.... I'm simply asking for less generalisations, as the one above.... talk about specific people..... when you generalise by religion, it's not much difference to generalising by race, or sex.....and it can give offense
yes I do not speak about one individual of this religion it is about the damage that this religion can do and does get away with. They protect any perpetrators as well as promoting mass destruction of people as a religion. And joe smith the christian does en masse go along with that when it happens. The individuals who did the crimes should be persecuted and punished for this. The religion should be cleaned from these people. By the way the 99% movement does not speak about individuals either but about the mysterious 1% and I would really like to have their names up on the websites first page!
Don't get me wrong, I am well aware of the dark ages, caused through misapplication of religious beliefs, and, have heard many, many more stories, of such times and things. I would say though that nearly all religions have some blood on their hands, from one point in time or another, as each nation does also... To call out one over the other, in this day and age, is imho comparable to all the other 'isms'....
Maybe joe smith the christian, would, or maybe he wouldn't. I'm certain however that a certain percentage wouldn't, and, given the fact that nearly every major religion, is represented in the "1%', in terms of wealthy people, ergo, the same could be said for each religion, also, to speak so, alienataes anybody from that section of relion that wouldn't, AND may also alienate people who simply find a generalised view such as that offensive...
The religion of the purpertraters is irrelevant, in terms of discussing, the definition of the problem, and, the solution to it.
Corporations are people too and don't be surprised if Corporations start running for President and other political positions!
Republicans would love that, they could get rid of the middle man and maximize profits!!!
hmmmmm Technically yes. Corporations are legal entities that have the same (in the eyes of the law) rights and responsibilities. I think 'middlemen' play into their game however, as middlemen almost necessitate denialbility, the new buzz word that all leaders seem to crave.
The problem is you can't jail a corporation, and a corporation doesn't 'die' of natural causes, but corporations do see people PUT in jails for no good reason, and corporations do kill. Deniability, is the grease in the machine that makes it all work. Check just this one example out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Coca-Cola
Only one of many many more. When you start digging... you realise how deep it goes...
The thing is, its ridiculous to consider Corporations as people that get preferential treatment! Wow! Who was the greedy little bastards that come up with this idea? Who legalized bribery to corrupt our Politicians? Wars where millions of people have died have come from the pockets of lobbyists! FACT!!!!!
Point. point. and more. All true. All nuts! I mean, N-U-T-S, nuts! We're being marched into walls! The minds of our children have become battlefields! And for what? For what great thing does humanity make this terrible sacrifice? For what end do we blindly throw ourselves over the cliff edge for? Why? $$$$$$$ Sad.
Yep we are own worst enemy. What would it take to get honesty and integrity in our political system? Thats the trillion dollar question! lol. To outlaw lobbyists would be #1, get money out of politics so we get the most qualified! Start up a general fund to be divided up equally for campaign funds and let them win on Merit!!!
Hey couldn't reply to that last post, so i'm up here.... loved that petition btw, I posted it in other forums too...Thnx heaps!
I think this is where it starts getting tricky.... cause now we're (ie occupy) on an international level. I think we need to be. I think these corporations have been facing US on a global scale for some time, and until we step up, and see the scale of things.... well... I just don't think an american political solution could be enough anymore... Which begs another question.... how do we get world peace? And, is that going to be the ultimate destination of occupy? The only thing that could solve everything?
I would suggest the WTO demand worldwide labor laws with minimum wages to start things off, But thats #2. #1 is listed above.
How big does the list get?
Lol, In my opinion these 2 items need to happen and then everything else would fall into place. Capitalism would be great if balanced with world societies and not be aloud to be abusive.
Deniability. The new buzz word for anyone in power. And the new reason we are left wringing our hands. How do we get around THAT can of worms?
"Plausible deniablity" was the term used in connection with Iran Contra. I'm for repealing the National Security Act of 1947. It is used as a shield behind which huge crimes are hidden.
Thanks! Mundus vult decipi!
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republicans-being-taught-talk-occupy-wall-street-133707949.html
I just read and shared that link. For those that have not read 1984 (George Orwell)... where the manipulation of language served as the platform for manipulation of the minds of the masses, I suggest you grab a copy. Then re-read that link. Woah.
Thanks sounds interesting. Politicians spend millions on political think tanks that figure out how to manipulate us.
Ironic isn't it. Free thinkers being paid to suppress free thinkers.
This should interest you, Here is a petition to Pass the OCCUPIED Constitutional Amendment to Ban Corporate $$ In Politics.
Please check it out and pass it along.
http://www.change.org/petitions/pass-the-occupied-constitutional-amendment-to-ban-corporate-in-politics#
Join us!
Join and occupy! Occupy Everything!
YES!
Funny how a site like this only allows a couple of posts in a specific, short, amount of time. What would you call that?
hmmmmm dunno.... I've found many other sites though, other than this one. Explore them all... and you will find people banding together all over the place... just like you.... and I'm sure that scares many people also.
We need to get someone elected to these offices to do enough to change anything. Then when they are there, they can draw attention to anything they want and get the public against everyone else. That's what I'm planning on doing after I'm done with the Coast Guard Academy and my required years.
I think the problem is in the offices, themselves.... Who, what individual that is, could possibly counter all the varying causes we face? I would love to hear some of your ideas!
You would have to do it one thing at a time. One of my big things is all of the extras the people get. For example, they get full pensions the rest of their lives, free health care, and they're own special retirement plan on top of social security. Also, if they work in the congress and senate, they get both pensions. It would be a lifetime career to get that fixed in itself but if I call enough public attention to it they should cave in just to save some face. What do you think?
I think its great! I think one of the massive "communal" issues that we face is the break in the cycle between elder and child. I think when our elders are given their rightful places as teachers of our children.... well.... I think you have interesting ways to accomplish that end....great ideas!
I'm sorry its probably me being thick but what do you mean. Speaking of teacher, they definitely deserve to be paid more for what they do. Maybe not the most in the country, but maybe in the top twenty- thirty.
I think the idea of a leader.... well... how can ANY one person have enough experience to cover all aspects of governance? How could one individual possibly have insight into ALL aspects of lets say the health system? I'm just not sure if there is a human alive that could be able to do everything! I think you are pointing out extremely relevant issues. I think your idea of 'one at a time', is excellent. One step at a time is how you travel a mile. Not certain a 'leader' is how we get there....
And No it was ME being thick! woops! got two different arguments confused! lol
So you agree with me on everything but the leadership. Now I would like to point out that I am not suggesting that I lead anyone. I would simply call public attention to problems, such as the extras that the public could and would most likely feel strongly about. Now what if on top of all that I said I was doing it for personal gain. And probably not the way you're thinking about it.
I'd say so yeah! I'd love to share my book with you...it speaks of MANY of the things you do and may help as a resource for you... I've left links here and there on this thread already... check it out! Check out some of the other links here too... some people are coming up with many relevant ideas, that really should be encouraged. In fact many of them I'd say coincide with many of yours! Thats what it is all about!
This is the word I'm trying to get out: http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-those-who-say-occupy-a-job/
Some people don't understand yet....don't worry though, they are desperate for the truth themselves! And the truth will set us free...
"Call to Action": http://betterliberalarguments.blogspot.com/2010/10/call-to-action.html
It is an essay I've been distributing at OWS camps and forums.
I couldn't leave a comment there.... but I love the ideas... well thought out, structured and concise. It coincides with many things I've thought about myself.
I would suggest everyone to check that stuff out!
Thnx Kofa!
The "call to action" says we should go see how incompetent officials are. It should say - run for office, replace them and show how it should be done.
hmmmmmm can we devise a system that requires NO officials...???
I ALWAYS say: "Vote 3rd Party, or run yourself."
I never vote here (In Aus it's illegal not to vote) as a vote. The entire concept that I have choice.... is an illusion, and not one that I will buy into... but how do we re-structure things?
"...run yourself..."
lol, yep. That seems to be the way of the future. Questions like, "can you grow your own food?" seem to have more and more relevance these days...
Thanks blazefire. I really appreciate your time, consideration, and support.
Thank you.... For yours!!! WOOOP.... working together! Unity! Solidarity! WAHOOOO! Occupy everything!
Anytime... :)
End the wars, bring the troops home, defund the military industrial complex, get rid of the DHS, restore due process, repeal the patriot act, reboot the Federal government to it's limited constitutional role as per the tenth amendment, return most governance to the states and localities which are more responsive to the people, keep promises to people who the government has made commitments to, reduce regulatory barriers to business startups, reduce business taxes, eliminate the IRS and the personal income tax, increase excise taxes, end property taxes, and return control of schools to communities and parents, end captiol gains taxes on the sale of gold and silver, end legal tender laws, end the federal reserve, allow private money that the people can choose to use or not. Live as free happy responsible persons.
Great ideas.... which of course leads to the next question...how?
Join the freedom movement and vote for RP. Then commit the rest of my life to holding politicians feet to the fire and never allow the country to get this out of control again. Support politicains that believe these things. Never vote for the lesser of two evils, because I hate evil. Teach my grand children to cling to a strict interpretation of the Constituion. My kids already are committed.
You sound like a man with a set jaw and clear intentions. I think you will find MANY people will agree with you, in the occupy movement.
I love the occupy movement. Some great people here and very thoughtful.
All there is is thought - Buddha
Pretty smart guy.... overall..... And I think the occupy movement loves you too! ;) hehehehe.......
Keep moving your money! The big banks have been illegally foreclosing on thousands of veterans who are on active duty overseas.
I've heard about this on another site... could you provide any links as to why, and more importantly how?
There are two kinds of legal violations against servicemen/women.
The first is that there is a law that banks cannot foreclose on active duty personnel who are serving overseas, because the person cannot defend against the foreclosure effectively. As an obvious example, you cannot attend a court hearing if you are in Iraq.
The second applies to all homeowners, and has hit many veterans. The banks did not follow the law in transferring mortgages as they were bundled and sold. Then they committed fraud in filing foreclosure papers, including invalid notarizations of documents filed with courts.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/29/bank-of-america-illegal-foreclosures_n_1118471.html
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11/30/banks-targeting-military-families-for-illegal-foreclosures/
This is SERIOUS people! Pay attention to this guy. He has some really valid information, and some very scary facts! Listen to his sources!
Put an end to the Federal Reserve!!!
Can you expand on that? How would you go about it?
[Deleted]
That above section is worth scrolling through!!! But it does beg one question of course.... who makes this 'new' money? and how much should we make? And who gets what?
Repeal the legal tender laws and eliminate taxes on capitol gains from the sales of precious metals. This would allow private currencies to compete with the dollar. People could then choose which currency to use. I think then the weakness of the federal reserve model would be exposed and we could gain our own money free from banker control.
hmmmm... that sounds plausible, and more, beneficial. But how would you implement? And how would you start that process?
Join the freedom movement and vote for RP. Then commit the rest of my life to holding politicians feet to the fire and never allow the country to get this out of control again. Support politicains that believe these things. Never vote for the lesser of two evils, because I hate evil. Teach my grandchildren to cling to a strict interpretation of the Constituion. My kids already are committed.
You've had some great feedback for some of these words, btw! Love that stuff!
I would like for you to hear my favorite Crosby Stills and Nash song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O69L2mO9y-4&feature=feedf
A smile, will change the world! Great track!
everyone register as an independent and stop sending political parties money.
move the encampment to DC where it belongs, holding the assholes who allows themselves to be bought accountable rather than the people who take advantage of bad laws.
end drug prohibition
make the consumption of bacon mandatory
make participation in a drum circle a capital offense
Rule #4 sounds racist. The only good part is #3
"Rule #4 sounds racist."
really? how so? is there a race that eschews a certain kind of food?
Some religion and culture does not allow the consumption of pork.
what does religion and culture have to do with race?
Sorry about using the wrong term. But rule #4 would be offensive to certain religions and cultures.
Rule #6 If you don't have a sense of humor, stop communicating with everyone.
Hey man! theres no need to worry bout that.... I got a sense of humor.... but considering some things that have been said about the Jewish people in other threads even tenuous connections will probably get short shrift.... and yeah I agree with bigbangbilly.... the only good point is #3
"I got a sense of humor."
no you don't.
So what does it mean if I'm laughing!
A manifesto . . ..
there are these:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
and this at the whitehouse:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/endorse-wwwthe99declarationorg-which-petition-redress-grievances/Q6qYt2H9
I recommend everyone to click on those links! Thanx ZenDog!
hey - I'm just tryin to do my part.
Which is why you deserve thanx! ;)
well o k then
It has been my pleasure,
you are more than welcome.
blazefire wrote:
Sir, What you mention as global uprising divides in two categories: first category are sympathisers of US OWS; second have genuine problems that on surface looks like crisis in the US. Most powerful one in Spain was swept under the carpet by recent election and bringing the right wing which is more loyal to economic policies schemed by Wall Street. Australia for the reasons, quite difficult for me to interpret, shows stronger similarity of opinion to the OWS than other places. Greeks with such a catastrophe have fallen to the idea that a lot of money will be delivered to their homes. They believe this is the meaning of bail-out. This happened in Bolsheviks revolution. When guns became silent, many were waiting for their monthly pay.
Frequently I have used a Marxist context. This does not mean that I am a Marxist or I am not. I believe that still end of this tunnel cannot be seen and I hope that a good novel outcome could be harvested. Germany before 1933 was full of debates and intellectualism. You could not have a cup of coffee outdoor without loads of exchange of ideas with many strangers around you. Streets were full of poets, artists, philosophers. Meanwhile, Nazi's were busy giving free hot soups to many unemployed, recruiting the most favourable thugs among them for their future operation. Where did they get the money those poets and philosophers had no clue and no attention. This is one outcome. Second outcome was Franklin Roosevelt. Though somehow a conspiracy theory, but it is believed that he also had plans to remain the life-time president as he remained. US could arrange for new election in 1940 as it was not in any extra-ordinary condition of war, yet. You know story of tents and bonus marchers happened before he came to office.
This problem has a solution for other nations: they can die or eat each other or be occupied by the US, but for the US it has not solution. US has used its voucher before the second world war and during that and after it.; has postponed the crisis by frequent wars.
Out there they do not have anything left not owned by the US. All of them has queued politely at the gate to receive orders with their cheap labour to produce cheap products with high standards for consumption of people of the US. If US should re-commission its factories, Wall Street will accept on the condition that the US workers wages be less than or equal to cheapest labour available out there. Otherwise we are going to have bankruptcy again. Hence, US retail should go and give orders to Somalia until their workers get to the same level as the US workers. This happened to Japan. Japan produced cheap labour until their people reached to the level of Americans. In 1985 each dollar was 350 yens. Now it is 70 yens. Then it came Taiwan and South Korea; then China. Now they are outsourcing to India. Who is next? Is the US next in queue to produce for the US, like a vacuum cleaner that vacuums itself until it disappears? Is there a robot up there that becomes confused and pulls the self-destruction trigger?
The uniqueness of the US in this movement as I advertised is due to the fact that the US is the only customer. Others are waiters. I have many stories to tell but I curtail this here.
Hmmmm, I would certainly agree that the US has a definate unique role in this, as it does in the world. I would also say that, that could be true of any and all nations. South Africa, is by no means a powerful or influencial nation, but Nelson Mandela is a human to be listened to. I am simply pointing out that the answers to our problems may come from strange places, and, to dismiss even the smallest group of people in the world is to dismiss the applied truths of chaos math, fractal math and the concept of '6 degrees of seperation' (studies have supportive evidence, and even if twice that is true, it still amkes our world incredibly small).
"The butterfly flaps it's wings..."
A true illustration of the power of one. I would also table global poulations, global peak gas oil, global atmospheric CO2 readings, global fresh water, and fresh water distribution, and the big one, global civil war, as being highly relevant to everything we discuss, highly impactful to every nation (inclusive of the U.S.) and, only resolvable through global unity, and, lastly that occupy IS global in nature already...as it must stand to face corporations, who already hold the global stage.
A gift....my thoughts....Thnx again for your input! And thnx for switching to this page....troll pages suck, lol, attract WAY too much troll attention!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Great flick! Brings up really interesting points and ideas!
That OWS are living in their own lala land.
Hmmmm that's pretty inflammatory... why do you say that? More importantly why are you here? You clearly have some curiosity, or an issue???
Money out of politics and have some nationalized banks. Fed must end and end fake democracy
how do you think you could accomplish that?..... sounds pretty good to me!
introduce real non faked elections where everyone can run money or not. Everyone gets a change to speak and run a campaign as they please. The money makes it easy to buy adds and bus to run the show but once you have x signatures like 250.000 you get a free bus and a package to run the show. We can not support every single getting the benefits but everyone should be able to be elected. I have the plan for this. Not enough space to write it here.
The voting system is done online. Click. The ones that gets the highest votes are in senate and congress. The highest votes for gets to be president and he/she basically just represents the whole thing when traveling abroad etc.
Acts and laws are presented online before voting. people can discuss it. After a set time the whole thing is set out for voting on the internet. Congress and senate do the work of writing the acts and laws.
Lobbying can be done but anyone with conflict of interest can not work on the act and law in mind.
national bank is owned by the people. Values goes into the bank and the bank is controlled by a shifting team of people. Everyone can work there. Bank does not invest but only use the money internally in the USA. If you want money to move outside of the USA then you must go to a private owned bank. The national bank prints money and this bank and the peoples government work hand in hand.
No bailouts are possible. Only bailout is sane and clever number crunching and is it gets fucked up by someone they pay with fine, prison or even life if very very serious.
To kill the Fed the people now just kill the dollar by not accepting it as having any value. The new bank makes a new valued dollar based on real values such as work and products.
This is not communism but it is the best taken from communism and from corporatism. In fact I have the whole darn thing ready but have nowhere to show it. Perhaps in my next life.
Think common sense. What is value? What are people? What is work? What is a company? What do people need as opposed to want? Should greed be allowed? If greed is okay, then take greed out of the basic structure. He who wants to be greedy can take his greed to the private sector.
Basic housing, transport and living should be relatively low cost. Want more work. Everyone want more but those who do not can live Okay no poverty. Poverty makes the system rotten and everyone suffers eventually.
I hear someone now saying, yeah dude but what if... all I can say is, that I have it on paper and I am working on it. I am not going to lay it all out here in every detail. I will in 2012 online but more on that later.
I think you pose some very, very interesting points, and, well thought out questions that should be the beginning of many things we should consider. Have you posed these outside of these forums? I think many of those points are entirely what this movement is about! And I think it's criminal that ideas like this haven't been more fully explored. I'm not certain if I agree with capital punishment, or even punishment in general as an idea, but for the most part I'd say you have some points to consider! In fact, if I may be so bold, I would say that many of those issues, I have considered myself!
Well, thank you. I do not believe in capital punishment but to fuck other peoples lives up must be severely punished. But hold... in fact I do believe the new prison has to chance as well. I even have that build into my new plan as well. Production instead of incarceration. People who commit crimes must build women ships and sail them moving products and also sail tourists around the world. Prisons are a thing of the past.
http://geegood.com/hapinut/2011/12/01/the-new-peoples-world-order/
I am setting up a whole website on this in 2012. More later.
hmmmm... just saw it... not sure if agree with forced labour either.... but one thing is clear. And as you say should definitely be discussed. The legal system needs an overhaul. and desperately so.
Privatization of the prisons and youth detention centers has already led to judges taking kick backs to give the kids longer sentences. I don't think privatization or forced labor is the answer. Work as an option to pay for phone calls and soaps and ramen would be good. They don't feed them much in the local jail so families will buy them food packs and hygiene products and pay to talk on the phone with them. No joke a call from the jail works like a 900 number. The war on drugs has been a big flop. I see all this free market crap as way for the Koch brother to go into business selling crack to kiddies at convenience stores with no regulations. Violent dangerous people need to be locked up. The mentally ill need inpatient treatment sometimes. Legalizing drugs and taxing them would greatly reduce the cost to society and could fund rehabs. Like with cigs, let them buy their way out of business. By keeping drugs illegal we support all kinds of violence against people by drug lords. As long as drugs are illegal and pricey there will be no shortage of poor people taking risks. If people could manage their addictions cheaply all sorts of crimes would go down. You could close a lot of prisons and keep people safe at the same time. Prisoners here in the actual prison system volunteer for work on the highway and building libraries and public buildings, they work for small sums of money and fresh air. You don't have to force them to work, they generally line up and almost fight to get a work detail. The prison system is where the poor end up when they can't pay their probation and fees. Its not about justice for the most part. That's just my two cents.
I think your two cents, makes more sense, than many things I hear from those who call themselves our representatives. I think your view makes sense, and so do you! Say it loud! Occupy!
Yep I have the court system figured out as well. More on that in 2012. Courts will rule based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Africa) and also on people as the jury but as we know todays jury are usually not educated so they will only be used as intermediary and as a guidance judge. Oh dear. It is in fact all so simple. But people likes to play games and makes courth systems that are nothing but a hollywood charade.
Couldn't agree more. "common sense" is not so common however, and "mundus vult decipi"...
Common sense is far from common. Using terms such as "common sense" is the first light that turns red when people say that to me. Not you, I get your point But so often people tell me: "Niels, you are an idiot, what a load of shit. It is common sense what I SAY and PEOPLE say". And then I try to argue but usually I loose but I always leave just a little seed and they may one day understand that common sense was Wrong Sense
Even the stupid shall have a word and shall rule the world. Mental institutions have many clever minds who gave up and simply could not fight anymore so they give up and take a pill and sit there like zombies now. Really sad.
Occupy the mental institutions and set them all free and give them REAL common sense or rather just sense and a purpose. We the people should unlock the doors and free not only ourselves but all people. I cry when I know that people are locked up like that. Surely there are nuts but even nuts makes sense. We could not have Vincent van Gogh and others if we did not have nuts. In fact I believe being nuts is fine. Nut was an egyptian God and a nice god taking care of things and the heavens. But now the word is misused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundus_vult_decipi,_ergo_decipiatur
Fools ar good too. I wants more fools and many more jesters. Being common is also fine a common fool or nut. Yes, there ar e medically insanity where the brain is damaged they say but I believe it not to be true. People are crazy in a crazy world and if we take out crazy then we have a cure
Everything is connected and nothing stands alone.
If common sense is greedy sense or the sense I IMPOSE then fuck that sense. Non sense should also be allowed. We see non sense in art and it is sold for millions. Pisasso said he made non sense art for the rich and he laughed at them.
Non sense is good sense also All sense is per say real sense because you can not have non existing sense so non sense is really bad sense.
Promote nonsense makes sense.
Sorry if I ramble but those who will get my point. I even have an idea of making a department of words. Yes, a department where they come up with new sense words describing our world. That should make sense. Think if we had just one word describing what OWS wants and people wants or having new words to describe hungry or sleepy etc etc. In greeland they have many words for Love.. but not in our western society. Everything is LOVE. Bollocs. I love my dog, I love my house.... all the same oll hogbollocks. I want a depratment set aside just to think up new words. And I want a department of more sense. The old system with Foreign Secretary and all.. did not works by itself. Make politics human.
Hmmmm.... rambling? the problem with making sense(cents).... is it doesn't make dollars... The problem that led to all this in the first place!
I just saw this program
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-mad-are-you/
To make cents is very hard and if people do they can have problems with competitors fighting them etc. Who was it that said "divide and conquer" ....
I LOVE that site. I've been to it many, many times before! And will prob watch that doco tonight! A gift for a gift.... here...
http://www.dystopiafilm.com/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/jordan-maxwell-matrix-of-power/
end the fed
someone else said this in this post to.... how would you do it differently to them? or would you do it in the same manner?
Free Competition in Currency Act" (HR 1098), has three parts . . .
...continue
https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/honest-money/
Hmmmmm those sound like exactly what we should do..... so how do we get from here, to there?
It's tricky. The key is to democratize the money powers by providing alternatives to the banking cartels' fiat funny-money that the central banks of the world are actively devaluing. This expanding money supply hurts regular working folks, and those receiving transfer payments (SS, unemployment, welfare) worst, because each dollar they earn/receive is worth less the more that is printed.
I am discouraged by those on this forum who have not done their due diligence with regards to the role the Fed and the member banks have played in this and other financial crises through its history.
It seems much easier to simply write off criticism of the fed as some sort of political talking point, when it is at the very root of our problems with debt at every level.
What is worse is that the Fed is largely opaque in its dealings. What we do know is that since 2008, the Fed has begun buying Treasuries, and now is the largest holder of US sovereign debt, passing China earlier this year.
We have also learned that one third of the bailout funds flowed directly to foreign banks. We cannot fix this rogue super-corporation by advocating its continued "independence." But that is exactly what seems to be the party line around here.
hmmmm yes. It IS tricky. And yes, if we are to look at the state of a finance and economy, the first place we should look is what it is all based upon. And I think there are many people caught up in this particular layer, as you pointed out. And there are many layers to this, in terms of 'the scope', of the issue at hand. I think that you are quite correct to be tackling this issue, and, would ask you to put this more onto the global stage.... after all, should America change it's currency (likely http://www.amerocurrency.com/support.html), what ramifications will that have on the globe? Should we be thinking of that? And, when contemplating that, what could be done, to amalgamate the various world dollars, and, should that be something to think about?
Move towards a more globalized currency? NOOO! We should be moving in the other direction. That only moves monetary authority much further away from the people. I would be moving more towards more diversification of currency options as a hedge against the failure of our national/international currency systems. Right now we are sitting ducks on a poison pond. I say we fly north, south, east and west from the massive fraud that the current monetary systems perpetrate upon us.
hmmmmm interesting point, and one that I think requires much more analysis. Don't get me wrong, I think you could be right, however, I still believe (multiple OR singular currency aside) that this needs to be dealt with on that global platform. So your saying we should divide the dollar further still? Or....? Or is your answer purely for Americans? What do you think...btw thanks heaps for your input...it's awesome!
We already have a sort of global currency called the SDR which consists of a basket of national currencies. We also have the BIS which is supposed to be overseeing such matters as the capital requirements of central banks and such. Basel III (the latest suggestions of the BIS) has been completely ignored in the face of Europe's troubles, and since the USD is the largest component of the SDR, and the US is the largest contributor to the IMF, regular Americans like you and I are being forced to bankroll bailouts that we've had nothing to do with.
Also, the globalized nature of the market for derivatives meant that much of the bailout money was used to pay for unregulated Credit Default Swaps that were held by hedge funds, big banks, and sovereign wealth funds worldwide. Those are the fraudulent insurance policies against the bankruptcy of certain firms. Lehman, for example. CDS's on sovereign debts has now been totally called into question based on the haircuts that Greek bond holders took. These sorts of impossible derivatives constitute weapons of financial mass destruction and so long as we have no alternatives to the apparently impotent globalized banking authorities, we are ourselves subject to these shenanigans perpetrated by the oligarchs and plutocrats.
If we take history as worth anything at all, it should be that the more globalized and removed from democratic oversight these institutions become, the more dangerous they become to the plight of the common man.
There are states that are moving towards providing for alternatives like commodity-based currency, and we should not fail to recognize the Bank of North Dakota as a diamond in the rough.
WOW! Now THAT is feedback ladies and gentlemen! If you are right now scanning through this thread I suggest you re-read what this guy has to say!
I would add here, an opinion/question, and one that is clearly not so well informed as yourself. Is it possible for a dichotomy to be created? A dichotomy where the two extremes (ie; local and global) can be adhered to?
Or in other words, can we create a global market/economic system which, is inherently designed, and controlled locally? What would such a system look like?
Btw, I think you would really like some of the other posts on this thread, and I would love to encourage you to give feedback on some of what's being said....THX again!
And p.s. -edit- I'm an Aussie!