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Forum Post: How should we split the police into 2 factions?

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 20, 2011, 6:56 p.m. EST by bigbangbilly (594)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

How should we split the police into 2 factions? Is there something that sorta divide the police? Anything ideological there?. Sometimes it is very hard to get the message that someone is yelling about.

61 Comments

61 Comments


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[-] 4 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

They are split into factions. One faction believes that the violence against the unarmed is acceptable. The other faction is too weak and afraid to stop it.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Lets get other faction on our side and give them the courage to try to stop the violent ones.

[-] 3 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

They are already on your side, they just are not the kind to think outside of protocol, and protocol has little to nothing, on how to arrest a renegade riot cop. on camera, in front of the world. My vote is, tackle the offender, in a great absolving media event.

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

How about pamphlets dispersals and interview that would change a couple of individual police's view.

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

The good cops need a means of absolving themselves from the actions of the few bad ones. They need to visibly arrest their own. Repeatedly.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Look what happened to the cop in Florida stopped another officer for speeding (120 mph) and gave him a reckless driving ticket. She is being harassed and threatened...even the VP of the Florida FOP is attacking her. And internal affairs is investigating the incident

Do you honestly think the officers who do not follow the actions of the others are going to open his/her mouth?

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

Yes I do. Primarily, I believe, fear of retribution will far outweigh the desire to instigate violence against unarmed protesters. As for the Florida traffic incident, it may not have much by the way of video evidence.

[-] 2 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/02/2484605/miami-police-reckless-driving.html

There's a link to the story.... the officer who received the ticket was in a patrol car on his way to his off duty job..... the other officer followed him for 5 minutes and then caught up with him and put her lights and siren on and it took another 2 minutes for the guy to pull over... ALL of it was recorded on her dash cam.

So you believe non violent cops will speak out??? I don't think so.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

That story is upsetting, yet not resolved, but will most likely go the way of most internal investigations. The story is not of a violent act against a non-violent person. I still hold out hope for the integrity of the cops that do not perpetuate unwarranted violence. Only time will tell which direction all this will go, because those very cops fighting oppressive regimes will be the staunchest allies of the oppressed.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

We need a nonviolence cop and a continuously bad cop and a couple of protesters to help the good cop and if the good cop fails, to do a citizen's arrest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest " Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. "

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Somehow I don't think you are going to be very successful with a citizen's arrest against someone holding a gun, pepper spray and hand cuffs... just sayin'

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

a gun have a limited amount of bullet and a pepper spray is limited as well a hoard would be difficult to stop.

[-] 0 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Well then YOU can take that first crack at him.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

When a hoard is very close aiming decreases. Which one to shoot? life is very precious. Besides have a good cop do the arresting first because the protesters would be backup and reinforcement.

[-] 0 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Again.... you will never find a cop to do that....... at least not in NYC.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Actually they have armor that is equal to the weapon they carry.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

Your scenario is missing a few personnel. May I suggest eleventeen criminal defense attorneys and a professional camera crew.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Thank you for pointing that out. eleventeen pro bono criminal defense attorneys and multiple nonprofessional volunteer camera crew would be better .

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 2 years ago

Thank you. If those resources were available, recruiting decent cops with enough integrity and enough military training to engage a target in riot gear, would seem to be easy.

[-] 4 points by GirlFriday (17445) 2 years ago

I know, lets go on a public forum and discuss strategies on how to create a temporary internal breakdown that would sorta divide the police.

:/

[-] 3 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

If you could steal that tank the police use in Tampa that will easily split them in two group. Just kidding honestly the police are doing a good enough job splitting themselves apart. I can't imagine all of them like being told to pepperspray innocent people then punished when they do what they were told. You can see it on some of there faces. Give it time though it isn't going to happen over night

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13719) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Unless or until we have individuals who gain media attention who also possess the right language, this is an issue that can only be accomplished on a local level.

That means the GA's must walk across the line and begin a dialog with those in city government - not just the police. Such discussions must have a consistent message.

That of non-violence number one.

Before such discussions take place, some research is in order. Beliefs, political affiliations, of the people with whom you might speak. Understand what they see as being wrong with the country - everyone thinks something is, but what?

Dirty hippies?

Don't just stop there - explore further, if only to see if it is possible to demonstrate that the dirty hippies are actually saying the same thing they are already thinking.

Understand whom you are speaking with, identify points of agreement, attempt to highlight those in your dialog.

Understand the problems they face - in terms of political pressure from above - and be aware that in some situations officers of any rank may be reticent to be completely honest because of that pressure. Also understand what difficulties they face when they are on the street facing us.

Take that information back to the groups, attempt to address those street side difficulties. If we can actually make their job less hazardous without repercussions from within their own hierarchy, they will begin to see us differently.

For example - a group could decide that mass arrest is necessary - either for reasons that are local, or for reasons of national scope.

NBC just reported on mass arrests in Albany NY. It hit the national news. There was no violence in evidence on the NBC report. It keeps the movement as a whole on the front page.

Where a group or groups have determined mass arrests are necessary, and where a political establishment is inclined to sympathize with the movement, it may be useful to coordinate that mass arrest with authorities.

A simple statement with ample warning indicating what we intend and how we intend it should be sufficient. Where desirable, it is possible that a community could reduce expenses by reducing the manpower necessary at the mass arrest site once trust has been established. Each group individually must decide for itself whether such cooperation with establishment is useful.

The flip side of this whole coin:

Places like Arizona - where there is entrenched opposition to social, economic, environmental justice - such cooperation may not be possible or advisable. Large gatherings place a burden of expense on the community where they take place. This is a point of pressure - at the local level.

That said, any such gatherings in hostile territory must keep in mind gains made elsewhere and seek not to completely undo them - as with outbreaks of widespread violence.

I'm long winded aren't I.

Apologies. It's a worthy topic. Short answer - those divisions already exist. They are right/left. Those with left leaning sympathies will be inclined our way by nature - and held back by whatever iconography that they see that does not reflect their own values and beliefs.

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

What I meant was the distraction of the police but your idea is also great. we just need to infiltrate it and plant a seed of distraction.

[-] 2 points by shill (60) 2 years ago

I wonder if the police were sued for police brutality if maybe they would think twice before they spray or hit someone. But this is only going to get worse. In the 60's we never knew what we were going to face at every event. So you prayed for the best but expected the worse. One thing that's going for the 99% is all the cameras out there. I beleve that the more the people see these abuses more people will speak out.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

bring an American flag if you expect any confrontation

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

And state flag or the flag of police if they have one.

[-] 1 points by aaa (18) 2 years ago

i have always told my kids to respect the police its not an easy job and there are alot of good ones.well now thats getting harder to say

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

Read this!!!

Psy-Ops..

Majority of police in Northeast are Irish-Catholic..

We distribute pamphlets educating them on Rerum Novarum.

“Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner. If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accept harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford him no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice.”

I encourage all Catholics to attend church and educate the local parish and priests about this encyclical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_Novarum

[-] 1 points by johnynpu (15) 2 years ago

Ok. if you want to spilt up the police. I will tell you the secret. Money. Through money into the air. They will find it very hard to resist taking the money.

Ok now the we need to find out more about the police union and pension fund for the police. How is it doing? I do know that in 2008 the 401ks were 5.2 trillion, now 2011 2.9 trillion. Find out about the police. Find out about where they live and befriend them outside of hours.

Just imagine if a policeman is at the occupy site and his wife gives birth to a baby. The OWS chant his name and they give the name to a tree or something for that baby. Its going to be hard to arrest someone for putting up the babies name.

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

The baby have a future and the police and his/her the colleagues are endangering it.

[-] 1 points by riversideCA (9) 2 years ago

i was thinking about, the mexican cartels method. lots off little pieces...jk

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

No, I was thinking of a temporary and non-violent method not a permanent and deadly one!!!

[-] 2 points by riversideCA (9) 2 years ago

your right...sorry

[-] 2 points by riversideCA (9) 2 years ago

they have had good results, buying them..better?

[-] 2 points by riversideCA (9) 2 years ago

i bet a shiny new flashlight, would do the trick.

[-] 1 points by hopeflower (2) 2 years ago

how about white ones and black ones.

seriously what for? to separate protect from serve?

ROFL

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

That would be permanent and/or hard to undo but still sort of effective even though that would undo the change we did 50-30 years ago.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Why split the police? I don't get it.

Would it not be better to get the police on our side? How can we create a change where they don't feel they need to come blazing in with riot gear?

The silent walk for the UC Chancellor was the perfect example. It was very powerful because of the protesters were silent.

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Actually we tried that and we only got 1 retired captain.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I don't mean get them to march, I am talking about some sort of pease treaty and behavior that will get them to feel comforatble in regular uniforms rather than riot gear.

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Actually there are people that gives the police orders and some of the "commanders" are just doing a desk job comfortably.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

There has to be a way to get them on our side. There has to be a way to get teh message out. They should not be the enemy. They are part of the 99%

Things have gotten out of hand and finding a way to get them back would improve public opinion of the movement.

[-] 0 points by Riceball (9) 2 years ago

Good luck with that, its a fraternity where loyalty runs deep

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

Shirts and Skins

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Please elaborate.

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

Just like it sounds. Half the police have on shirts, the rest work bare chested.

[-] 2 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

We need something else that can cause a temporary internal breakdown and this does not work because we can't take their cloths away and they would arrest us before we do.

[-] 1 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 2 years ago

What if we tricked them into thinking it was a competition?

[-] 0 points by jeivers (278) 2 years ago

No thats female soccer!

[-] -1 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Gods below the ignorance here is frightening.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

Please point out the location of such flaws so I can rectify it.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Not one of you filthy marxists understand anything in the real world. All I see here is conspiracy theories and other stupidities. The police are people with jobs, families, kids in school, mortgages. In other words shit you retards know little if anything about. But many of them are more aware of what this country is becoming than you think. But the OWS way of occupying and beating on bongos and general bullshit isn't going to make them join you.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

And your continual insistence on Marxist solutions won't bring them to your side. In that respect they are smarter than any of you.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

You may have you freedom of speech however it seems to call for the silencing and censorship of my speech which goes against the concept of freedom of speech.

The police are people with jobs, families, kids in school, mortgages and they are endangering it with their support against us.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

How is my freedom of speech censoring your freedom of speech.

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

By calling for my silence on the matter I am speaking about. Thus you are attempting to influencing my speech toward silence.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

And I called for your silence.....

C'mon. Stay with me here....

[-] -1 points by RockyJ (208) 2 years ago

How about how to split trolls & shills into 2 fractions instead?

[-] -1 points by saged (33) 2 years ago

black ones and white ones

[-] 1 points by bigbangbilly (594) 2 years ago

That would be permanent and/or hard to undo but still sort of effective even though that would undo the change we did 50-30 years ago.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

So divide by race?