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Forum Post: If You're not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem! But What do YOU Know?

Posted 9 years ago on Aug. 8, 2012, 11:23 a.m. EST by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


If You're not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem! But What do YOU Know?

I think the solution is Voting and the problem is not Voting. But what do you think? or believe?

Going into a very important election, I have a LOT to say on this.

But before I do, I want to give it to YOU!

What is the solution? What is the problem? What role do YOU play?



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[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

I live in New York State,which will certainly end up in the Democrat's tally on election day.In my local area,the Democrats never win,nor does any party except the Republican-they always win by a large margin.Since I am a registered Democrat,every time I go to vote,my name does not appear on the voter roll,so I am provided with a "contingency ballot"which is discarded as soon as the election workers observe that i have left the polling place.The last time my name was on the roll was in 1990,and I doubt that I will ever find it there again unless I register as a Republican.I figure my vote doesn't really count,but I would definately try to get my name on the rolls by registering as a Republican if I lived in a swing state.I would rather die of thirst under a cactus along the Devil's Highway than vote for ANY Republican and I absolutely do not say such things in an attempt to seem sarcastic-I really mean it.

[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 9 years ago

The US political system is beyond repair.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

I don't agree,but certainly a solution that delivers quick results is hard to envision.#OWS is faced with the daunting tasks of tackling campaign and campaign finance law reform and a set-aside of the catastrophic Citizens United by constitutional amendment while also putting together some kind of plan to deal with the suffering of Americans in everyday life.We may have run out of time...

[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 9 years ago

For many people voter fraud and vote suppression is a partisan issue. They only find it reprehensible when the other party does it. Voter registration is another absurdity alongside with redistricting and the winner takes it all.

I live in the Netherlands and I am really bewildered at the US election system because it is not that difficult to get things right. In the Netherlands we do not register with a party but the government uses the population register so everybody gets a voting ticket at home. We have to produce an ID if we want to vote.

I have used your comment in my analysis, which I am still working on. If you want to read it, you can use this link:


I think only a revolution and a state of emergency can solve the issue. But then the reasonable people have to unite and end voter fraud, the buying of politicians and the control of oligarchs.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

I'm glad my little anecdote was helpful in your consideration of this issue.I have to admit that although I of course have been aware for a long time that scrubbing of voter rolls is common in the US,I was still shocked that registered Democrats in poor neighborhoods in New York were being sanitized in Republican controlled counties.I had thought such things confined to the Southern Republican dominated states.There may also be voter roll sanitizing of Republicans in counties controlled by Democrats,but I should qualify that by saying these voter roll scrubs are entirely directed at poor neighborhoods where registered Republicans don't live-but given an atmosphere of total chicanery,anything is possible

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

We CAN take back govt


[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Massive attacks from yesterday against Dk to today. Same old though. So no biggie


[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Good for a little entertainment


[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

They cannot win. We are stronger. We are legion. We do not forget, We do not forgive, They will be assimilated, Resistance is futile.....

Oh excuse me. Got a little distracted.


[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I think you're right. many will need to have it smacked upsidetheir head.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Personal experience can be a real eye opener. Demanding a Personal experience to open ones eye's - hmmmm - a little more than hard headed? Some things should just be fought against because they are happening to others - just because they are happening at ALL.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

You have to be enlightened to care about others. IMHO It is the difference between progressives and conservatives. I also think the nasty attacks are mostly (not only) conservative type tactics.

but there it is.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago


Support your family friends and neighbors - even the ones you have not met. Where ever in the world that they live.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (6045) 9 minutes ago

I could agree with that. It is a never ending battle. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

I think it is more that one needs to be in touch with their humanity - and not have been beaten down into a submissive or negative posture.

corpoRATist's and the blind supporters of the status-quo - can be very nasty indeed.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I could agree with that. It is a never ending battle.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Govt "for the people" has been bought off by the 1% plutocrats.


Support "Move to Amend"

There is nothing the people united can't do!

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Can't fix it without voting.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

R U part of the problem

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Decades ago, I lived in Toluca Lake, LA, CA, (Bob Hope, Crosby, etc.) and it was very much like that, too. I instigated a giant controversy, got the old folks that ran it in trouble, and received the scorn of the community for blowing the whistle. I felt good about it.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

"Lifting the Veil : The Failure of Capitalist Democracy" - (Video)

This film explores the historical role of the Democratic Party as the “graveyard of social movements”, the massive influence of corporate finance in elections, the absurd disparities of wealth in the United States, the continuity and escalation of neocon policies under Obama, the insufficiency of mere voting as a path to reform, and differing conceptions of democracy itself.

Original interview footage derives from Noam Chomsky, Michael Parenti, Michael Albert, John Stauber (PR Watch), Sharon Smith (Historian), William I. Robinson (Editor, Critical Globalization Studies), Morris Berman (Author, Dark Ages America), and famed black panther Larry Pinkney.

Non-original interviews/lectures include Michael Hudson, Paul Craig Roberts, Ted Rall, Richard Wolff, Glen Ford, Lewis Black, Glenn Greenwald, George Carlin, Gerald Cliente, Chris Hedges, John Pilger, Bernie Sanders, Sheldon Wollin and Martin Luther King.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Primary stuff. Now we have to get the Cons out!

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I think our political system is corrupted. A new system would be ideal. I support it. Unfortunately it hasn't emerged. Until that occures I believe we must engage our corrupted, broken system and attempt to lay the ground work for the new system. I believe we can agitate all pols in our existing system for money out of politics and other election reforms. We should also agitate for improvements in the lives of the 99%. Freeze foreclosures, public healhcare option, 90% tax rate on wealthy/cut taxes/debt on working class. expand Pell grants and much more. We can make progress while we create the new system.

1st and foremost we must keep the republican conservative 1% plutocrat tools out of office.

Elect progressives.

It's the only way.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago


But we have to keep comprehensive goals for the Primaries, and out of the way of the Elections.

Now is the time we have to devote full attention (blood, sweat and tears) to Registering and getting People VOTING!!

With fewer (ideally NONE) Cons in our governments, blocking and sabotaging, we can make changes that will allow more Progressive ideas and candidates to come to fruition and prominence; like Instant Runoff Elections.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Good idea. I'm with you. I will be working to increase the vote in PA probably.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago


Beat those republican 1% plutocrat tools asses.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

It's Class War, we're losing, Let's Fight Back, god dammit!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

The 99% have been under attack for all of human history by the 1%. Times are rare when the oppressed, and exploited fight back. Now must be one of those times. If not we will be drowned and decapitated.

"Power to the people, Right on" JL

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Have you read any of shad66(?) stuff? The guy is possessed with anarchic fervor. I can't tell if he's putting on an act, or if he really believes his eloquent articulations. I guess it doesn't matter if he's against Voting, but it still seems like such a waste. He (like Lie'n-Ryan says, too) wants to get the money out of government! But not by Voting! I can't figure out how he wants to accomplish it. I want the money out, too. But with Citizens United, money is a necessary evil to fight the people who made it this way. That's probably incomprehensible to these supposed "purists." Reality is messy and inconsistent. Is there some perfect, clear, black, and then white, reality that I'm missing?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Until we do change campaign law to remove all this money I expect and encourage my candidate to take any money given to him. I do not support unilaterely disarming. In regards to Shadz. I agree with lots of things He posts (thought it was a girl) But if recall, the whole anti Obama, "parties are the same" mantra I can't agree with. Such is life. I have not engaged much with that one.

[-] 2 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

I just had an encounter, he/she was/went a little crazy when I asked if both parties were the same, why do 1% Kings spend soooo much Citizens United secret money to elect their Cons instead of Dems??? Maybe very crazy!

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

And you are right. Dems get some 1% bankster money (much less this time) because the banksters have to hedge their bets. Last time they gave more to dems 'cause they knew dems would win. Taking the money is only a problem if you do what they want. Dems have failed in this regard but it is up to the progressives to mount a real protest movement to make sure our pols do the right thing despite taking the money.

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Last 2008 "they" gave some more to Obama (because they lost control of the election and a few million means nothing to them), but the Cons always get the lion's share, and now with CU, Cons are getting untold lion's shares. Do you know where the money goes? It goes to campaign for Votes, mostly TV ads. Who owns MSM? The 1%. Votes trump money, campaign donations, MSM and the 1%!!! That's why they don't want us to just Vote on our own free will. They want us indoctrinated to Vote on their BS. Unfortunately, that forces even good-guys to fight fire with fire. Voting cures everything, almost.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Definitely must vote out any pro CU politicians. We must get control of the political process. And there are many election reforms we must try to pass. Public campaign finance, no commercials/frequent debates withh all candidates on shortened runoff campaign primaries, repealelectoral college on person one bote, mandatory voting for all. And others.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 9 years ago

they dont let us vote on dmv fees, and courts that spend all day collecting against poor people, and even debtors prison. OUR VOTES do not make a difference in the important matters. In the end, its all a song and a dance by another rich person who wants to lead us, and doesnt know how.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Only in our neglect! We neglect our "System" the 1% takes our place, and exploits the hell out of it!

Wake up and RE-CLAIM our democracy!! Don't surrender to the 1%!!

Fight back in the Class War!!

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Why 90 million Americans won't vote in November By Susan Page, USA TODAY

They could turn a too-close-to-call race into a landslide for President Obama— but by definition they probably won't.

Annie Provencher, 60, a retired cashier from St. Pauls, N.C., didn't vote in 2008 and isn't sure she'll vote this time.

By Sara D. Davis, for USA TODAY

Annie Provencher, 60, a retired cashier from St. Pauls, N.C., didn't vote in 2008 and isn't sure she'll vote this time.

Annie Provencher, 60, a retired cashier from St. Pauls, N.C., didn't vote in 2008 and isn't sure she'll vote this time.

Call them the unlikely voters.

A nationwide USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll of people who are eligible to vote but aren't likely to do so finds that these stay-at-home Americans back Obama's re-election over Republican Mitt Romney by more than 2-1. Two-thirds of them say they are registered to vote. Eight in 10 say the government plays an important role in their lives.

Even so, they cite a range of reasons for declaring they won't vote or saying the odds are no better than 50-50 that they will: They're too busy. They aren't excited about either candidate. Their vote doesn't really matter. And nothing ever gets done, anyway.

"I don't think Obama helped us as much as he promised," says John Harrington, 52, a heavy-equipment operator from Farmington, Minn., who was among those surveyed. Since 2008, when Harrington voted for Obama, the financial downturn has forced him to sell his home in Arizona, move to Minnesota to be near a daughter and put him on the road to Nebraska, North Dakota and Iowa to find work.

His wife "loves" Obama and is sure to vote in November, but he's not certain whether he'll get there this time.

Even in 2008, when turnout was the highest in any presidential election since 1960, almost 80 million eligible citizens didn't vote. Curtis Gans, director of the non-partisan Center for the Study of the American Electorate, predicts that number will rise significantly this year. He says turnout could ebb to levels similar to 2000, when only 54.2% of those eligible to vote cast a ballot. That was up a bit from 1996, which had the lowest turnout since 1924.

This year, perhaps 90 million Americans who could vote won't. "The long-term trend tends to be awful," Gans says. "There's a lot of lack of trust in our leaders, a lack of positive feelings about political institutions, a lack of quality education for large segments of the public, a lack of civic education, the fragmenting effects of waves of communications technology, the cynicism of the coverage of politics — I could go on with a long litany."

There's also the relentlessly negative tone of this year's campaign. The majority of TV ads don't try to persuade voters to support one candidate but rather to convince them not to back the other guy. Romney ads portray Obama as a failed president and a liar. Obama ads describe Romney as a heartless corporate raider whose firm has laid off American workers while he parked some of his fortune in a Swiss bank account. (Both candidates dispute the truthfulness of the other side's commercials.)

"I really don't know much about him, but from what I hear, he's all about putting taxes on the middle-class people, and I've heard that he's put his money in overseas accounts," Jamie Palmer, 35, a mother of three from St. Joseph, Mo., says of Romney, echoing accusations made in Democratic ads. "I think that's wrong."

So will she vote? Not a chance.

Palmer has never voted. "If a candidate I liked ran for the presidency, that had the right things to say, I'd go vote," she says. "But they say the same things; they make promises; they don't keep them. It's ridiculous. If I vote, nothing is going to come of it. It's just going to be like it is right now."

Who's the vice president?

Many of these unlikely voters are suspicious of and disconnected from politics. In the survey, six in 10 say they don't pay attention to politics because "nothing ever gets done"; 54% call politics "corrupt." Only 39% could correctly name the vice president, Joe Biden. (By contrast, a Pew Research Center poll in 2010 found 59% of American adults could name the vice president.)

On the other hand, they do see a difference between the two major parties: 53% disagree with the statement that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans." Obama scores a huge advantage among all the unlikely voters. By 43%-18%, they support the Democratic incumbent over his Republican challenger.

"There's this pool of people that Barack Obama doesn't even need to persuade," says David Paleologos, director of the Suffolk University Political Research Center, which took the survey. "All he needs to do is find them and identify them and get them to the polls. It's like a treasure chest. But the bad news is that the treasure chest is locked. …

"You've got this overriding sense of bitterness and people who have been beaten down by the economy and the negativity and the lack of trust, and that's the key that Obama can't find. And he's running out of time."

Two-thirds of the unlikely voters say they voted four years ago, backing Obama by more than 2-1 over Republican John McCain. That helps explain why Obama's campaign is spending millions of dollars on the most elaborate field operation in U.S. political history, aimed at delivering both core supporters and reluctant ones to the polls.

Romney's pick of Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan as his running mate has opened a barrage of Democratic attacks on Ryan's proposal to move toward a voucher-like system in Medicare. Democratic strategists argue the issue could energize some of the president's discouraged backers, especially older ones.

Many of the nation's unlikely voters report hard times over the past four years. Only a third call their household finances good or excellent. Close to half say their annual household income is less than $60,000 a year. They tend to have lower levels of education than likely voters; nearly six in 10 have no more than a high school diploma.

The ranks of eligible non-voters lean toward the Democratic candidate in most though not all election years. The Democratic tilt among them is much greater in this survey than it was in 2004 or 2008 in the Gallup Poll just before Election Day. Then, Democrats had the advantage in voter enthusiasm — an asset they've lost this year.

The process of registering to vote doesn't seem to present a major obstacle. Two-thirds say registering is easy and can be done pretty quickly; 16% say it takes too much time and is too complicated. The new wave of voter ID laws, which experts predict may reduce turnout a bit, doesn't seem to be an issue: 75% support requiring citizens to show a photo ID before voting.

The top reason given by unregistered voters for not having signed up is their busy lives. Among the top reasons given by registered voters for not bothering to go to the polls: not liking either candidate and not feeling that their vote matters.

Lisa Goicochea, 19, a student at LaGuardia Community College in New York City, favors Obama. "I like that he's been trying to go through with the Obamacare, which will benefit a lot of people," she says of the health care law. But she doesn't plan to vote and isn't interested in politics.

"Sometimes people actually enjoy talking about this, and I feel left out," she says. When it comes to the government, she adds a bit ruefully, "it does matter."

Drafting Hillary Clinton

Many unlikely voters feel some regret about not going to the polls. Half agree with the statement that not voting will bother them in November "because I will be letting other people elect the president." Four in 10 say it won't bother them "because my vote doesn't make any difference anyway."

What could convince them to vote?

About one in 10 say they could be drawn by different candidates, by being convinced someone could fix the nation's problems, and by feeling better informed. Asked to name someone whose presidential bid would prompt them to vote, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was the most frequently cited, by 7%. Texas Rep. Ron Paul, who sought the GOP nomination, was next, named by 3%.

Annie Provencher, 60, a retired cashier from St. Pauls, N.C., voted for Bill Clinton and for Democrat John Kerry in 2004. She didn't vote in 2008, and she's not sure she will this time. She knows she doesn't like Obama but isn't sure about Romney. She plans to rely on the advice of her sister, who lives in Massachusetts, on how Romney did as governor.

If Hillary Clinton were running, she volunteers, "I'd be back there, the first one in line when the polls opened."

The survey identified one extremely persuasive argument. Among Obama supporters, 85% say they would go to the polls if they knew their vote would help swing a close election to the president; 70% of Romney supporters say the same for their candidate.

Given the potential closeness of this election, this might turn out to be the case.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 9 years ago

Voting discourages incompetency, but does not prevent it.

Neither political party is currently expected to be able to fix the economy. http://occupywallst.org/forum/it-isnt-getting-better/

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

I don't recommend it, but for some people a Glock in the mouth is the only solution.

For others:

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 9 years ago

Q12b Would you say that your vote is more FOR Barack Obama or more AGAINST Mitt Romney?
Results shown among Obama voters
More for Barack Obama .........................................72
More against Mitt Romney ......................................22

Q12c Would you say that your vote is more FOR Mitt Romney or more AGAINST Barack Obama?
Results shown among Romney voters
More for Mitt Romney .............................................35
More against Barack Obama ..................................58

Really quite pointless since neither party has a real plan to fix unemployment. Both parties have essentially the same plan for the economy—continue with budget deficits.

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Dems have plans that Cons have blocked, filibustered and held the country hostage!

People, that's why we have got to get these SABOTEURS out of our gov!!!

Let's get registered and let's get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 9 years ago

Do you support raising taxes? Or do you think the government should just continue deficit spending its way to success?

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Raise taxes to Eisenhower rates 90%, spend to save the country at FDR rates!! They worked!! LET's Do What WORKS for a Change!! Because it sure as hell isn't Trickle Down!!!! Tax the Fucking RICH!!!

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 0 points by Misaki (893) 9 years ago

During the 1970's, 90% taxes on the rich weren't enough to create enough jobs because the rich were running out of money, or not spending what they had (which is what creates jobs and taxable income flows).

In the long term, we would need high taxes on the rich AND the middle class to be able to create enough jobs with people going into debt or housing bubbles etc. We have been spending $800 billion ~ $1.5 trillion more than the taxes we take in and unemployment is still at the 8~10% level. (If we weren't spending like this it would probably be at 15~20% like the Great Depression.)

So are you willing to support high taxes on the middle class too?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 9 years ago

if taxing the rich didnt create jobs, why do you think taxing the middle class will, when and where did it become governments job to create jobs? They are the biggest wasteful spender that ever existed.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 9 years ago

What I should have pointed out is that the middle class does not support taxing the rich because of the many social connections and because people admire those with higher status.

Taxing the middle class more (while also taxing the rich more to keep it fair) and then using that money to create jobs would, by definition, create enough jobs while also preventing inflation.

It's just very difficult for the government to find useful work because, as you say, it is wasteful and bureaucratic.

So that's why instead of trying to find more kinds of work, we can just encourage the rich to work less so that the existing types of work can be better shared:


[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Tax the rich, pay the people and they will spend driving the economy. We have a Demand Economy! "Supply Side" was a total Heist!!

End the Heist! End the Hostage Crisis perpetrated by the Cons and the 1% Kings they work for! Fight back in the Class War!! VOTE the bastards out!!

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 9 years ago

The idea of taxing the rich is not exactly new. The level of support for it is fairly well-known: not enough to fix the deficit problem or allow for new spending (whether jobs or just direct payments/tax credits for the poor etc.).

Something that WOULD work: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/783/697/872/tell-the-1-how-they-can-help-the-economy/

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

If you advocate giving up our rights to vote you are serving the 1% plutocrats.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Spread the word!! VOTING and DEMOCRACY are not spectator sports, nor are they dirty words!! as some on this board tend to dictate!!

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Agreed. Maybe "some on the board" are trying to suppress the vote progressive dem leaning OWS supporters. (KarlRovian Agents of ALEC!)

Or maybe they're just lazy people who expect every thing handed to them!

I have no patience with either.

VOTE and shut the Fuck up!

[-] 1 points by NoCoOptingOWS (3) 9 years ago

VQkag2 is a pro-regime plant and this pro-war post proves it:


VQkag2 is no part of the 99% or OWS. Loretta26 tells it like it is:


Poster Madinusa sees VQkag2 for the poser he is as well:


This forum is for Revolutionaries. Get the fuck out, VQkag2!

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago
[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

This is a situation which requires a multitasking set of solutions. We must get the corrupting influence of money out of all aspects of governance including but not limited to elections, and at all levels of government, NGOs, and Corporations (they are corrupt internally as well).

When you get that done, get back to me. Its a long list and I have given it a lot of thought but I know how short your attention span is.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

NGO's - no good operations ?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

notso good operations

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

I was close.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

extremely close.

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Meanwhile, since you know that won't happen anytime soon, let's keep the Crazy Cons out of government. That's the first and most urgent step. And will speed up any progressive goals.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

Excellent tactics. Romney's move assures he will lose and improves the chances of a change in control of the House. I may buy him some doggie diapers.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Wisconsin allows dual position races. But there is a good Dem running for his seat in the House.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

I am sure the Dems will give that candidate plenty of resources.

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

They didn't for the guy who ran against Walker.

See, Dems aren't organized and obedient like Cons are. And we don't give them the support that Cons get from their 1% lords.



and Get out the VOTE!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

That is the tactical answer.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Get People "tactically" REGISTERED and get out the "tactical" VOTE!!

2010 Never EVER Again!!


[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

Then watch more lawyers than you have ever seen go at it.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Not following.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

With all of the voter suppression and intimidation and unwarranted challenges at the polls, there will a lot of legal wrangling and I hope nothing significant goes to the Supreme Court where nothing good happens anymore.

[-] -1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

So let's be PROACTIVE!!

Let's get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 9 years ago

I get it.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

SO... Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

The Massive Voter Fraud of the GOP


Isn't it voter fraud to deny US citizens the right to vote?

That is what the Republican Party is engaged in its campaign to place onerous requirements on the poor, infirm and destitute seniors, the homeless, students and others to vote.

Politico recently ran background summaries on each state that has passed restrictive voter laws in an article entitled "Voter ID laws could swing states": "At least 5 million voters, predominantly young and from minority groups sympathetic to President Barack Obama, could be affected by an unprecedented flurry of new legislation by Republican governors and GOP-led legislatures to change or restrict voting rights by Election Day 2012."

Think Progress reports that "As many as 43 percent of voters in the city of Philadelphia may lack valid Pennsylvania Department of Transportation-issued photo identification, the City Paper reports. While several other forms of photo identification - including U.S. passports and many student ID cards - are acceptable proof of identity under the controversial and possibly unconstitutional new law, this statistic suggests these restrictions may provide an even larger obstacle for urban (and racial minority) communities who do not drive."

Why is the disenfranchisement of potentially millions of Americans the perpetration of a fraud? Because it would mean perhaps millions will not be able to vote due to false claims by GOP sponsors of these bills that there are massive cases of illegal voters in the United States.

In a recent Brennan Center for Justice report it is noted that Republican backed obstacles to exercise the right to vote are not limited to government-issue photo ID cards:

"Significantly, these voting law cutbacks extend well beyond the most visible and controversial step to require government-issued photo ID that many citizens don't have," said report co-author Lawrence Norden, deputy director of the Democracy Program and former Chair of the Ohio Secretary of State's bipartisan Election Summit and Conference. "An array of technical moves can add to significant barriers to the ballot. And it comes at a time when experience has taught us there are many ways to improve the voting process and expand access to the franchise while reducing costs."

The Brennan Center report also warns that "The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012-63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency."

Debunking the myth of voter fraud, the Brennan Center produced a study that showed in a state such as Wisconsin, where Scott Walker led the charge against "alleged" voter fraud, there were only minute voting errors in the 2004 election (.00006% of ineligible voters casting ballots in the state that year) - and that "none of these problems could have been resolved by requiring by requiring photo ID at the polls."

Writing in the Michigan Law Review in 2007, Spencer Overton bluntly lays out the facts:

The Carter-Baker Commission's Report noted that since October 2002, federal officials had charged eighty-nine individuals with casting multiple votes, providing false information about their felon status, buying votes, submitting false voter registration information, or voting improperly as a noncitizen. Examined in the context of the 196,139,871 ballots cast between October 2002 and August 2005, this represents a fraud rate of 0.000045% (and note also that not all of the activities charged would have been prevented by a photo- identification requirement)

When you balance taking away the Constitutional right to vote of millions of Americans on the basis of 89 people being charged nationally with illegal voting over a three year period, those who seek to restrict access to the ballot box are engaged in a fraudulent scheme to impact elections through the denial of the most basic right of citizenship.

In a recent commentary, Truthout columnist William Rivers Pitt lamented the lack of full participation at the ballot box: "Someone once said that decisions are made by those who show up, and when the people do not show up, that void is filled with low men who poison the process with money and greed, who make a living out of convincing Americans that voting is a waste of time, and who summon the infinite gall to blame the process when it fails due to their deliberate and overt disruption."

Yes, the US would be blessed to have a much higher voting rate, becoming a full-fledged democracy.

But that can't happen if the Republican Party in many states is perpetrating a fraud in denying US citizens the right to vote by putting premeditated obstacles in their path.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

5 Things You Can Expect from Washington if You Elect Republicans

Republicans have their own special contemptible methods of handling politics in Washington ("criminal").

August 6, 2012 |

There are more than five, of course, and voting Democratic may not be much of an improvement (considering GOP obstruction), but attaching these adjectives to the comically contemptible GOP seems more than appropriate.

I. Obstructionist

In 2010 Mitch McConnell said: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." He didn't mention the economy, or education, or jobs, or the housing market. Instead, the goal is to beat Obama, whatever misery it might cause 200 million Americans.

For the past two years the Republicans have obstructed proposals that would have helped most Americans. They fought the middle-class tax cut because it would only apply to the first quarter-million of income. They killed a jobs bill that was supported by two-thirds of the public. They rejected a bill to disclose information about big campaign donors. They disrupted the routine process of increasing the debt ceiling, thus triggering the first-ever downgrading of the U.S. credit rating. Most recently they've obstructed efforts to provide mortgage debt relief to American homeowners.

Along the way they found time to obstruct other bills that conflicted with their 'austerity' mentality: a Pay Equity Bill that would have provided greater pay equality for women; a bill to limit student loan rates; a transportation bill that Senator Dick Durbin called one of the "easiest bills to do on Capitol Hill"; a demand for a $16 million cut in the FAA budget that led to a $25 million PER DAY shutdown.

Republicans in Congress, by relying on questionable filibuster rules and delay tactics, have built a "road to gridlock" in the halls of our government. They have been even less productive than the "do-nothing" Congress of Harry Truman. As observed by George Lakoff and Elisabeth Wehling, their recalcitrance "disables the government to the point where it can no longer carry out its moral mission -- the protection and empowerment of everyone equally."

And it all makes the Obama Administration look really bad.

II. Vindictive

Despite obstructing every proposal Obama has sent their way, Republicans have the temerity to pass the blame for Congressional failures onto the President and the Democrats. Most of the criticisms border on the absurd. They accuse him of "class warfare" for proposing to tax incomes over $1 million. They blame him for failing to avoid reductions in military spending. They accuse him of single-handedly losing the country's AAA credit rating.

The President has even been blamed for "strangling the economy" in Ohio when federal labor statistics show that the state's unemployment rate has declined since Obama took office. And, as U.S. corporations abandon job-seeking Americans, Obama is somehow tagged with the title of "outsourcer-in-chief."

The venom is directed not only at political opponents, but also at the public. Social security, a popular and well-run program, is constantly targeted for cuts. Medicare, just as popular, is also threatened, even though private insurance administrative costs are three times higher. The U.S. Post Office was directly assaulted by the 2006 Republican Congress with a ludicrous demand for 75 years of pre-funded retirement plans.

When Republicans run out of spite and accusations, they turn to ambiguities, which allow insults to be fashioned for no particular reason. Mitt Romney blasted Obama's policies for creating "more uncertainty." House Speaker John Boehner lamented the "economic uncertainty that is destroying jobs." House Majority Leader Eric Cantor referred to the "cloud of uncertainty" hanging over small and large employers."

III. Delusional

Republicans have persisted in their 30-year delusion that tax cuts for the rich stimulate the economy and the job market. It is simply not true. Research by Piketty and Saez and Stantcheva confirms that there is a direct relationship between reduced tax rates and higher incomes, and that there is no relationship between tax cuts and GDP growth. As for the claim by Orrin Hatch that a tax increase on top earners would hurt small business, a recent Treasury analysis found that only 2.5% of small businesses would face higher taxes from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.

The image of wealthy job creators is also an illusion. Over 90% of the assets owned by millionaires are held in a combination of low-risk investments (bonds and cash), the stock market, real estate, and personal business accounts. The Wall Street Journal admitted that the extra wealth created by the Bush tax cuts led to the "worst track record for jobs in recorded history."

The GOP "tax cut" plan would save tens of millions of dollars for billionaires. This when the richest 1% took 93 percent of all the new income in the first year after the recession, and when at least $20 trillion -- more than the U.S. GDP -- is stashed away tax-free in offshore tax havens by Ultra High Net Worth Individuals, most of them Americans.

As part of their delusion, Republicans have emphasized the need for austerity measures, including an end to the Child Tax Credit, the Earned Income Tax Credit, and the tax break on college tuition. Not a single Republican voted to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide tax relief to middle-class families.

All this when the child poverty rate in the U.S. has climbed to record levels, leaving us ahead of only Romania for last place among industrialized countries. And when we have 30 million long-term unemployed Americans, 50 million without health insurance, and 50 million on food stamps.

Evidence bursts the balloon filled with Republican hot air. In a survey of leading economists conducted by the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business, 92 percent agreed that the stimulus succeeded in reducing the jobless rate. Not a single economist believed that cutting taxes will lead to higher government revenue.

Instead, reputable studies have found that investing in health care or education will create jobs, and that increasing the minimum wage will stimulate consumer spending.

But the delusional Congressmen don't listen to the middle class anymore. A Princeton study concluded that "Senators appear to be considerably more responsive to the opinions of affluent constituents than to the opinions of middle-class constituents...Disparities in representation are especially pronounced for Republican senators."

(CONTINUED:) http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/5-things-you-can-expect-washington-if-you-elect-republicans?paging=off

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

(CONTINUED:) http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/5-things-you-can-expect-washington-if-you-elect-republicans?paging=off

5 Things (4-5) You Can Expect from Washington if You Elect Republicans

IV. Hypocritical

Hypocrisy has run rampant among Republicans, starting with their rejection of economic stimulus programs like the one they supported just four years ago. They reversed themselves on the individual mandate, which enjoyed widespread Republican support until Obama endorsed it. They dismissed the payroll tax cut that cuts the taxes they so despise. As noted earlier, they balked at the raising of the debt ceiling, even though it had been raised by Republicans many times before. They demand budget cuts to reduce the deficit while refusing to touch the bloated military budget. They condemn public education while insisting that every individual has an equal opportunity to succeed. They support prison privatization programs that are, according to the Orlando Sentinel, "prime financiers of the Republican party."

Hypocrisy oozes from the pork that survives the Republicans' public demands for fiscal discipline. It flows from the criticism of unions for campaign spending, even though the Center for Responsive Politics estimates that only 2.7 percent of contributions came from labor unions and individuals representing labor organizations. And it reaches a shameful peak in the appeal for 'integrity' in elections through a Voter ID Act, which could eliminate the vote of millions of lower-income Americans.

Finally, the most common note of hypocrisy from Republicans: their call for lower tax rates coupled with a removal of loopholes. Can it work? A Johns Hopkins study suggests not, determining that Republican CEOs show a significantly higher level of tax avoidance than do companies run by CEOs with no clear political preference.

V. Inept

Our do-nothing Republicans are like children pouting until they get their candy. Congressional experts Thomas Mann and Norm Ornstein say "We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional."

On all counts of economic growth, progress is stifled by Republican ineptitude and inertia. Bloomberg reports that Democrats over the years have created more private-sector jobs, stimulated the markets to a greater degree, and presided over faster GDP growth.

Republicans are outrageously unpopular. A Gallup Poll registered a 10% approval rating, less than pornography, communism, and BP during the oil spill.

And unless, as suggested earlier, they're playing dumb as an obstructionist tactic, they're lacking in intelligence, as evidenced by their stand on climate change. Global warming is universally recognized as a problem caused by humans. Except by Republicans. With their passion for individual rights, conservatives deny any fact that implies a failure in the free-market system. If global warming turns out to be true, excuses are being lined up, like this one from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce: "Populations can acclimatize to warmer climates via a range of behavioral, physiological and technological adaptations."

Cognitive dissonance strengthens erroneous beliefs in the presence of factual evidence. Thus the House of Representatives has voted over 100 times since 2011 to subsidize the oil and gas industry while weakening environmental, public health, and safety requirements. As summarized by Republican Senator James Inhofe, "God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous."

Adds Republican Representative David Schweikert: "You have the right as an American to be dumb."

A Word About the Democrats

"Impotent" comes to mind. The New York Times commented that "Many voters prefer the policies of Democrats to the policies of Republicans. They just don't trust the Democrats to carry out those promises."

But Americans, at the very least, deserve political representatives who won't stand in the way of national improvement simply for the purpose of making their opponent a one-term President.

Paul Buchheit teaches economic inequality at DePaul University. He is the founder and developer of the Web sites UsAgainstGreed.org, PayUpNow.org and RappingHistory.org, and the editor and main author of "American Wars: Illusions and Realities" (Clarity Press). He can be reached at paul@UsAgainstGreed.org.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Why We Should Care About the Homeless Vote Only 10 percent of homeless Americans vote each year, but they can still make a difference in local elections. August 9, 2012 |

Like this article? Join our email list: Stay up to date with the latest headlines via email.

Having a home is not a prerequisite to vote in the United States. But activists and homeless service providers still face major challenges trying to help homeless Americans register.

Pitts v. Black (1984) and several subsequent cases in the 1980s and '90s established that homeless people could not be denied the right to vote because they did not live in a traditional residence. A shelter, park or street corner can be designated as a residence. In states that require a mailing address for voter registration, homeless voters can usually use the addresses of shelters, churches, friends’ houses, or P.O. boxes.

Still, turnout among homeless voters is one of the lowest for any demographic. In the 2008 presidential election, people with the lowest income (family annual income less than $20,000) and people with no reported income -- the groups most homeless Americans fall into -- had the lowest voter registration rate and the lowest voting rate. According to Neil Donovan, executive director of the National Coalition for the Homeless (NCH), only one-tenth of unhoused persons actually exercise the right to vote, and over the years, “the number has been fairly consistent.”

This is unfortunate, because homeless voters can make a difference. As the 2012 presidential election nears, issues that are relevant to homeless Americans, such as economic inequality, healthcare and job creation, will continue to shape the national debate. Although the homeless vote may not be a wild card for any candidate or party, with at least 1.6 million people experiencing homelessness nationwide, it does have the potential to change the game in some swing states.

Some advocates believe the real impact of the homeless vote lies in local elections. “Americans are most interested in national elections, which is ironic in a sense, because local elections are the ones that affect...your day-to-day life the most,” said Devo’n Williams of Homeless but Not Powerless, an advocate group that pushes for greater homeless engagement in local elections. Indeed, local legislation and policies about funding, housing, healthcare, transportation, and employment can often have a greater, more direct impact on homeless people’s lives than national policy.

Sill, the upcoming presidential election is a great opportunity for activists to raise awareness for the cause of homeless suffrage. From September 30 to October 6, NCH will sponsor the National Homeless and Low-Income Voter Registration Week to help its 4,000 member organizations across the country boost voter registration. NCH has sponsored the week-long event every presidential election year since 1992 as part of its You Don’t Need A Home to Vote campaign, which has helped register tens of thousands of homeless voters.

This year, activists may have to work harder, for new voter ID laws and other restrictions introduced to states across the country will make it more difficult for some homeless Americans to vote. At least 34 states introduced laws that require photo ID for voter registration; at least 17 states introduced laws that require proof of citizenship such as a birth certificate. For homeless people, who do not have a steady residence, keeping documents such as a birth certificate is a challenging if not insurmountable task. Many also cannot afford the fees to apply for an ID.

Some states also introduced bills that would make voter registration harder by restricting voter registration drives, eliminating election day registration, reducing early voting periods, or making it harder to restore voting rights. Civil rights activists often organize voter registration drives to help and mobilize the homeless to register to vote, and these bills can make their work more difficult.

A battle is underway across the country over the constitutionality of these laws. We have seen new voter laws struck down or blocked as unconstitutional in several states such as Florida, Texas, South Carolina and Wisconsin.

At the same time, activists are working to make sure that organizations engaged in homeless voter registration are aware of the laws. “Each state has different laws, different ways of addressing voter ID, and...it is important for most groups who are planning on doing any type of voter registration campaigns, especially dealing with people experiencing homelessness, [to] start reaching out to officials and try to figure out how to address some of the problems that some people are beginning to see related to voter ID,” said Isaiah Castilla of the Alliance for Justice, a national civil rights advocacy group. Castilla recommends that activists use the Brennan Center for Justice Web site, which offers comprehensive resources for voter registration and a summary of voting law changes in 2012.

NCH also published a 2012 Voter Rights and Registration Manual for organizations engaged in homeless voter registration and two weeks ago conducted a voter registration workshop during the 2012 National Conference on Ending Homelessness. “We talked about the nuts and bolts of not only how to do it, but why it’s important as well as informing people about the unique characteristics of their state,” said Neil Donovan. The workshop tuned out to be one of the most popular at the conference.

In addition to having a firm grasp of the law, activists working on the ground must be familiar with the logistics of each election. Simple things like making sure that a location is open during the hours it is supposed to be open can make a huge difference.

“The majority of the unhoused people who are our members are employed while they’re homeless,” said Donovan. “Many times the employment is from 7 to 3, having a half hour for lunch, something like that, so what we need to do is to make sure that if they say that they are going to open until 6 in the morning, they are open at 6 in the morning. We will have people go and just make sure that they are still open.”

Homeless Americans are by no means a homogenous group. Despite some of the myths and misconceptions about the homeless population, many people who are homeless are technologically savvy and well informed. However, when it comes to elections, especially local elections, where there can be dozens of candidates on the ballot, learning about the platforms of all the candidates when one doesn’t have a stable home can be a challenge. That is why voter education is such a challenging but essential part of activists’ work.

To prepare for Atlanta’s recent primary election, Homeless But Not Powerless posted on its Web site candidate profiles with links to candidates’ sites. However, because of a lack of funding, the group could not afford to produce print materials for individuals who do not have access to the Internet. “Primaries are just really really difficult to educate everyone, let alone a population that traditionally does not have the easiest access to the latest technology,” said Williams.

Chicago’s Mercy Housing Lakefront, a nonprofit permanent housing program for people with special needs, relies on its residents to help with voter drives and education. Most of the residents in the program have experienced homelessness, and some of them used to be chronically homeless. As part of its Civic Participation Project, which helps residents reintegrate into society, residents can become “deputy registrars” and register their neighbors as well as homeless people in shelters or on the street. Residents also help research candidates and educate voters.

According to Lisa Kuklinski, Mercy Housing Lakefront’s regional vice president, 75 percent of the residents in the program are registered voters. The number is about 2.5 percent higher than in the general population (72.4 percent) in the 2008 election -- a great success.

“For people who have been homeless or for people who have been marginalized by society, this kind of activity, being involved in their community and being civically involved, brings a return of human dignity, brings a return of purpose to their lives that maybe they never had before or that they used to have,” said Kuklinski. “Mostly, the thing that brings so much joy to people is to feel that they personally matter, that they have personal political advocacy that they had not felt before, and that just brings a sense of dignity that actually leads to other major changes in their lives.” Jin Zhao is a freelance journalist, multimedia producer and photographer. Her work has appeared in the Nation and on AlterNet. Follow her on twitter @jinealogy and visit her blog thingsyoudontknowaboutchina.com.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Perhaps new co-op ideas are feasible, old ones were not so much. I haven't heard much.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

The unemployed masses will never do it on their own. It would take individuals specifically committed to establishing the Cooperative Employment Service along with their access to crowdfunding. Otherwise, it won't be feasible.

Likewise with voting. It will take voters willing to take a stand in only giving their support for a political standard like FreeDA and a 501 (c) 4 to fund collective ad support for FreeDA signing candidates to establish a viable choice between corporate and non-corporate owned politicians. Otherwise, the continued voting for the lesser of two evils will soon become meaningless with the lesser evil simply embracing the past positions of the greater evil.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

See, this is part of the problem. People like to say that Voting for the "lessor evil" only gives us more of the same, this is a misconception. If we truly consistently Voted for the "lessor evil," we'd have reached almost complete perfection at the point President Van Buren was elected. Due to natural progression, by now our elected officials would be gods. It's when we don't Vote, or Vote for the greater evil, and the evil bastards take office and screw everything the fuck up, that we bitch about.

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

Voting for the lesser evil gives us less of the same but the same nonetheless. It's the difference between driving a bus load of people straight into hell at full speed or driving with the brakes on. You're still going to get there, just a little later.

The passengers need to keep the brakes on until they choose to replace the driver with someone who will turn the bus around. Otherwise, without the replacement, they're still going straight to hell.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

What if we protest with huge numbers to get money out of politics and progressive solutions. Isn't it possible we can take our govt back from the corp 1% plutocrats.?

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

What if we spoke nicely to the plutocrats to share their wealth with the masses and strive for a better world? Wouldn't that be just as possible as getting huge numbers to protest?

We can't take back what we never had and were never intended to have. "We" can only organize a grassroots political campaign to get eligible voters to take a stand against corporate owned politicians and take what has ever been denied to us.

If all the passengers merely protest the bus ride into hell, it will never stop them from going to hell. They have to take action by applying the brakes AND replacing the driver with someone who will turn the bus around. Protesting the bus ride while applying the brakes is only going to get them to hell a little later with a lot of noise.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

That's a great analogy. I think I agree, Although I do believe we MUST protest with large numbers if we want to get the bus to stop.


What is the real equivalent of "applying the brakes", and "replacing the driver" (with who)?

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

Applying the brakes is voting for the lesser of the two evils UNTIL the People replace the driver by refusing to vote for any candidates who don't sign an affidavit committing them to the listed demands of the People.


[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Well the affidavit is a novel approach. I wouldn't be against it. In addition we should have a means of expressing our collective opinion to the elected official in an immediate way. (internet perhaps) In this way everyone and I mean every eligible voter would weigh in weekly, monthly, whenevr to approve a particular position or even recall the elected official. I could agree with that if it were really verifiable. And I think it can be.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

Not without an amendment and you're not going to get that until you have elected officials who are committed to supporting it due to legal compliance with an affidavit of popular demand.


[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Do you think it is possible? Is there an existing movement/petition/website on this? Maybe it should be started? What should we do until that happens?

Withhold our vote from the 2 parties entirely?

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Well many groups are working hard on these voter id attempts to suppress the dem vote. Some dem but also ACLU, League of women voters and so forth. This is efforts to fight in court but also as you suggest getting to the state offices for requisite ID's. Some (PA, OHIO) do indeed limit the service to one day purposely to prevent people from getting registered. So there are efforts being made hopefully enough to counter this attempt at suppressing the dem vote and stealing an election.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 9 years ago

most countries do not engage in war

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

Court battles are by no means a guarentee of success. Organizing to satisfy the (il)legal requirements will ensure success, win or lose in the courts.

Challengers of Pa. voter photo ID law file appeal http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/nation/20120816_ap_challengersofpavoterphotoidlawfileappeal.html


The Associated Press

HARRISBURG, Pa. - Challengers to Pennsylvania's tough new law requiring voters to show photo identification are appealing a judge's decision to let it take effect in the Nov. 6 presidential election.

The lawyers for the people and rights groups suing filed the appeal Thursday afternoon. The paperwork was filed in the lower Commonwealth Court. The Supreme Court says it hasn't received it.

But the lawyers are asking the high court for a speedy review, including oral arguments to be scheduled during the court's session in Philadelphia the week of Sept. 10.

The law is the subject of a furious debate over voting rights.

Republican Commonwealth Court Judge Robert Simpson rejected claims the law is unconstitutional and ruled the challenge didn't meet the stiff requirements to win an injunction.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

Strategies will shift as the first court battle over Pennsylvania's new law requiring voters to show valid photo identification will head to the state Supreme Court, while other legal hurdles could surface.

The law's Republican backers and, they say, the integrity of the Nov. 6 presidential election were the winners of Wednesday's decision by a state appellate judge to reject an injunction that would have halted the law from taking effect in November, as part of a wider challenge to its constitutionality.

An appeal is imminent by about a dozen rights groups and registered voters, who say the law will trample the right to vote for countless people in an echo of the now-unconstitutional poll taxes and literacy tests once designed to discriminate against poor and minority voters.

The Republican-penned law , opposed by every single Democratic lawmaker , has ignited a furious debate over voting rights in Pennsylvania, which is poised to play a starring role in deciding the presidential contest.

Democrats say the law is a thinly veiled attempt to help the Republican presidential challenger, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, beat President Barack Obama, a Democrat. Republicans, who for years have harbored suspicions of ballot-box stuffing in the Democratic bastion of Philadelphia, say the law is a common-sense measure.

At the state Supreme Court, votes by four justices would be needed to overturn Simpson's ruling. The high court is currently split between three Republicans and three Democrats following the recent suspension of Justice Joan Orie Melvin, a Republican who is fighting criminal corruption charges.

Jennifer Clarke, executive director of the Public Interest Law Center of Philadelphia, who aided the legal challenge, said the justices could have the appeal resolved within a month if they move quickly.

A key element of the appeal is likely to revolve around Commonwealth Court Judge Robert Simpson's choice to give strong deference to the government, rather than putting a heavier legal burden on it to justify a law that, opponents say, infringes on a constitutional right.

"I don't know of any other state court that has ruled on photo ID that has applied such a low standard, that has protected the right to vote so little," said Penda Hair, co-director of Advancement Project, a Washington, D.C.-based group that supplied part of the legal team challenging the law.

Simpson, a Republican, didn't rule on the full merits of the case, only whether to grant a preliminary injunction stopping it from taking effect. But he rejected the suit's claims that the law is unconstitutional and ruled that the challenge did not meet the stiff requirements to win an injunction.

In the meantime, state elections officials have until the middle of next week to supply information to Obama's Department of Justice, which is looking at Pennsylvania's law and has moved to block voter ID laws in other states. Another lawsuit is pending from the state's second most populous county, Allegheny County.

On Wednesday, the Obama campaign said it would continue to spread the word about the law, and the state Republican and Democratic parties each emailed out fundraising appeals Wednesday spinning off Simpson's ruling.

Gov. Tom Corbett, a Republican, signed the law in March.



[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

As I said there are groups attempting to get people registered in time to vote.


[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Well now that is funny. you've created comment of a link to the same comment. I guess we are at the end of our productive discussion.

I would love to know if there is any existing action on the concept you mentioned. And I would love to know what you think we should in this coming election.


[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

There is no existing action that I know of. If anyone is waiting for me to do all of it, they will be a long time waiting.

I read a lot about the objections to the Republican passed voter ID laws in variuos states but haven't read about any action by Democrats to counter the intent behind them by assisting people in getting their ID. Folks can say that such laws are unconstitutional and that therefore they shouldn't have to put forth a great effort to satisfy illegal requirements but that doesn't solve the problem. When election time comes, all the objections in the world aren't going to mean a thing when millions of people can't vote. Whether it's the Democrats, OWS, the PIRGs, or whoever, some group should be organizing nationwide in the voter ID states to go out of their way in overcoming the various obsticles the affected voters have to face. If transportation is the obsticle, some organization should be renting school buses to get people to where they need to be. If the local dept. of licensing isn't open enough days or hours for working people to get there on time, someone should be demanding and protesting that it be open for a greater period of time until the election or on an appointed set of days for everyone to be bussed in and get their ID. If working voters literally can't afford to take a day off from work to get their ID, it should be demanded that the dept. of licensing be open at a time when they can come in. This is the single most important issue to be delt with between now and the election. Defeat the racism of the Republicans by making sure that all of the people they passed laws to prevent from voting will satisfy those laws and be able to vote anyway. Then, after the election, those laws can be done away to make sure this never has to happen again.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

I'm afraid your obedience to dogma has rendered you unable to think.

Continuous and consistent lesser evils gradually leads to greatness!!!

Get on the bus, get out the VOTE!!!!

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5909) 9 years ago

Here's reality beyond any claims of dogma.

Driving to hell at full speed:

Meet Paul Ryan: Climate Denier, Conspiracy Theorist, Koch Acolyte http://truth-out.org/news/item/10855-meet-paul-ryan-climate-denier-conspiracy-theorist-koch-acolyte

Paul Ryan Pick Gives Obama a Chance to Change the Subject http://truth-out.org/news/item/10854-paul-ryan-pick-gives-obama-a-chance-to-change-the-subject

Driving to hell at less speed:

On Welfare, Obama Channels Reagan http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/10846-on-welfare-obama-channels-reagan

The lesser evil is now where the greater evil was 30 years ago.

Driving a busload of passengers straight to hell 30 mph slower than another driver still gets you there, just a little later.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Get Out All the VOTES!!!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 9 years ago

That's flawed thinking.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago


That's right, you Righties don't believe in evolution!! Natural Progression.

But you do believe in Social Darwinism, typically hypocritical.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 9 years ago

Hey, rpc. Let's get this straight . . . one . . . more . . . time.

I'm not a righty. Do a forum search of gnomunny and you'll see that I have not one, but TWO posts going into detail about third parties, which I'm focusing on for 2016. You guys would have a bit more credibility if you'd stop calling us righties.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. No matter how you pose!!

Get people REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 9 years ago

You sound like a broken fucking record.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

There's no time for you, I assure you, Show-Me!

Time to get the CONs out!!

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 9 years ago

Thats because you never go to your local occupy

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

You might be redeeming your Tampon reputation. Tell me, I only passed through Tampa once, is Randi Rhodes right?

[-] 0 points by beatleJuice (0) 9 years ago

go Romney and Ryan !!!!

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

You can't be serious. Lyin' Ryan, & BullMitt Romney?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Yes - leave and never come back. Good one BJ.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

A gun in the mouth would be quicker, and we would not have to be involved.

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!


[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 9 years ago

we tried to vote an inititive here in utah, the one that says corporations are not people and money isnt free speech, and the supreme courts are saying that we the people do not have the right to vote on such an issue, thats its a mere opionion, even though we had like 100k signatures. See they have taken our power away.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago


It means we have a lot of work to do!

Get busy!

It's Class War, we're losing, WakeTFU!!!

Let's get registered and let's get out the VOTE!!


[-] 0 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 9 years ago

I like to sit on my ass and bitch. Just like everyone else on this forum.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago


Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!



[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Low Voter Turnout: Are We Downsizing Democracy? By Craig Williams

Leadership Low Voter Turnout: Are We Downsizing Democracy?The voter turnout numbers are an embarrassment. Throughout the country in nonpresidential elections, less than 30 percent of voters turn out for elections. In presidential campaigns, billions are spent and the media does focus on the national race, horserace style, which isn’t something to cheer about either. In nonpresidential elections, we are facing a political disconnect and a crisis in democracy.

One way to look at the problem is to start by examining the Orwellian nature of local TV news. Though they often refer to their journalism as “complete local coverage,” their coverage is never complete local coverage nor could it be logistically. They’re not even close. Local stations are actually regional stations covering as many as a hundred local municipalities. They’re good at moving products, but hardly “complete local coverage.”

This has a significant affect on local turnout. I recently surveyed local high school students; fewer than ten percent knew who their mayor, their assembly member, or state senator were. In a very good book on voter turn out, Non Voters:American No Show, by Jack Doppelt and Ellen Shearer, half of the people who didn’t vote are not connected to information about politics, especially local politics. Many of these “no shows” didn’t vote for a very good reason: They didn’t know who to vote for and didn’t want to make a mistake and vote for someone who would make things worse than what they already are!

So if they watch local news shows as directed, they won’t have a clue as to who to vote for because local stations — unlike their claim of “complete local coverage” — rarely give them local political information. Local TV news departments do however cover local crime news. Part of the logistical problem is that a viewer from one town with a remote in his hand usually won’t watch a story about politics in another municipality, unless it’s a crime story.

This problem of informing potential voters isn’t rocket science. We coach and develop people in many fields, especially sports, so why not democracy? I‘ve thought for awhile a solution could be to create a monthly issue project that could be the potential focus of a whole community. The topic could be chosen by a panel of local educators and journalists. The local high schools could distribute an article about the issue to all students. Students would be encouraged to read the article and have their parents also read the story. Local cable stations could do a program about the issue. Other residents of the given district could be sent the article by email.

Data vendors and county registrars of voters have most email addresses by geographic areas. If they are not online they could be contacted about the article and cable program by robo call. It could also be posted on You Tube. The topics could be about the city or the school board and education or the county and the board of supervisors or even a statewide or national issues. Statewide issues rarely get coverage on most local TV stations. The elected officials and journalists involved in the issue could do a follow up event at the local high schools and make personal contact with the students. Students could even be part of the cable and YouTube production.

Before we had television, FDR had “fireside chats” that over 80 percent of the population listened to. We can’t force people to focus on a political issue but we can have a coordinated effort where we can inform them about a relatively important issue in their area.

Craig Low Voter Turnout: Are We Downsizing Democracy?The creative thinker, author and labor lawyer Thomas Geoghegan recently opined that we have become a society with “fewer union members, fewer voters and more prisons.” Being misdirected by our media system from local politics is a big step in driving down citizen participation. The media is set up to sell product, sandwiched between entertainment and some political information. As progressives we do a fairly good job of analyzing the national media but could be more critical of local media and its effect on our democracy. Locally, we could also do something about it.

This could be a win/win not only for our democracy but also for our declining print media.

Craig Williams Developing Democracy

[-] 0 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Start building a local off-grid economy...yesterday! Network with people, make things locally, grow food, get out of the financial system. Things are about to get sporty!

The banking system is on the verge of collapse, and this time it will make 2008 look like a gentle evening breeze...

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

You think the end of world is upon us?

[-] 0 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

They're going to lose control of the dollar, and it's going to collapse (certainty)

Trade wars are escalating

Markets are rigged or corrupted which has second order effects: the malinvestment of capital. This has created the biggest bubble in the history of the world - Government bonds (debt worldwide).



On top of that, George Soros is buying gold with both fists... I'd say it's a consensus.

Then we may end up in WWIII (I'd give that a 1 in 20 chance)

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

That is pretty dismal. Are you doing anything to prepare? Bunker? Food/water hoarding. Weapons stockpile?

[-] 0 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Planning to leave the country if the system crosses my mental triggers... that is, if there's anywhere left to go.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

No place left.

Just hide under the bed, they never look there.

PS, before hiding under the bed, please send me all that useless money.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

exactly. Canada isn't a huge population maybe they'll be ok. They would close the border though. Better go before the collapse They hell with everyone else.

[-] -1 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

I have a family, man. I have to look out for them. They're my priority. If you want to be a hero, fine. Being in the military, I've seen enough friends get blown up and destroyed. I don't want my kids to grow up in fear. I'll do what I can while we still have peaceful options, but the moment it goes supercritical, I'm out. Sorry.

Canada has been co-opted by the US, they're not safe anymore.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

Whoa. Take it easy soldier. I'm not your enemy. I may not agree with the end of world theory (wishful thinking?) But I don't begrudge you doing what you need to. Be careful with the whole gold purchase thing. Recently another in a long line of gold buyers got shut down for corruption/criminal business practices.

[-] -1 points by kaiserw (211) 9 years ago

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was snapping at you. Yea the gold market is pretty messed up. A bunch of people from PFG Best, and the other broker lost most of their assets when they went bust. The CFTC has been doing an investigation for 4 years on manipulation of the markets, and the commissioner Chilton wants to blow the lid, but he's being held back by the banks, the Fed and Treasury. He's stated clearly that there's manipulation. Unfortunately, I think a lot of it is at the behest of the us gov and they're sandbagging him. They're trying to keep it all buried, but with the LIBOR scandal finally in the news, and the beginnings of the maniplation in the metals market admitted on CNBC, well there's something.

There was a good interview with one of the founders of GATA on the subject:http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/08/lauren-lyster-interview-chris-powell-of.html

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 9 years ago

I will look at it later.


[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

Under the bed! It's the only safe place left!!

Hurry!!! Get under there.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

But place it in a doorway 1st.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 9 years ago

All that useless fiat money won't fit under the bed.

I'll take it.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 9 years ago

Off grid is great!

I think between CA and OR, my local food sources would do better than most. I worry about the rest of you.

The banking system will most likely be just fine, the people will get fucked.

Isn't there something we need to do now? Like:

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!