Forum Post: If your parent is police, ask them why some police beat upon the unarmed and non-violent.
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 24, 2011, 4:09 p.m. EST by FawkesNews
(1290)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Better yet, ask them why these people are protesting. Even better, ask them how they can prevent the bad apples within their ranks from beating upon the unarmed. Go one step further, Use the internet and learn for yourself whether your parent is a douche or not. If your parent is a douche, please try to help them unfuck themselves. If not possible, move away from home. After all if your parent loves you they will not beat or mace or shoot innocent, unarmed, non-violent, peaceful protesters.
Check this out could be real good fun.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/irs-could-resellrent-foreclosed-properties/
I am set aback at the honesty of the concept. I will need time to learn. It seems brilliant. Though government housing for all is most likely not a good inspiring force, it may be a great leveling one. Thank you for the mind opening thoughts.
Please check out the petition and sign if you find it has merit.
Please share/circulate while you are considering.
It needn't be turned into Government housing for all. Just a redress in reality for the mess.
Thank you. Petitions to me are the momentary direction of the masses. I believe in the masses. They are people unbridled in their support for the cause they represent. I would love to see the poor huddled masses clothed and housed, but at the cost of a petition?
What cost in awakening awareness in Government and in the Public. Let our voices be heard not only in protest but also in resolving issues.
What cost in letting them continue to slumber?
I do not believe in the integrity of my government. I see no action taken by the people, be it petition or voting, that will bring to justice the vermin that have usurped the world. Awareness is what people need. They will have it. There is no encouragement necessary.
And so we continue to educate and inspire as we can where we can.
Exactly. The people who listen. have changed the way they appear, outwardly. They are much more keen to learn about who has done them so wrong. Everywhere is dissent, it is the norm. Resisting the inevitable is not wise and few follow the ideology.
It is only inevitable if it is let to be.
Gather support of the everyday man and you will not be alone, weak, unwise or in a loosing position.
Support and spread the truth and the truth will set you free.
The common man gathers you. You control him not. Truth is incapable of anything, except setting you free. Thank you.
You are welcome. Safe journeys.
Likewise. I look forward to other posts.
I as well.
Or maybe at the same time they might ask if they feel that they are only following orders.
This is why we are here this is why you are needed.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/
Share, circulate, educate, inspire.
Why follow such orders? Who would give such orders? What if you didn't follow them? Those are questions that need to be asked in the family, community and at work.
Exactly!
This is the USA, not Nazi Germany!
Police are to support the rights and freedoms of its people, to protect, not to oppress.
To realize that they are of the people as well.
The people in police forces do not want their communities foreclosed upon in mass. They don't want the businesses in their communities to go bankrupt. They don't want to defend the traitors who have robbed their neighbors. So why do they? When they learn the answer to that question they will return to their original job, which is to bring criminals to justice. Although, with hackers gaining strength daily, justice may soon be delivered to the door of the criminal. No police necessary.
They are necessary. But no-one is talking reason to them and they are feeling set-upon. There are individuals in the police department that need to face charges. I understand the thin blue line, but the good police should not support the bad. At the very least if they don't want to give up the scum who are dirtying their name, they should give them a good and proper beating once they are back to the precinct house and let em know in no uncertain terms that they're bullshit will not be put up with.
Absolutely! I firmly believe discussions within the police community across the world will yield the reforms we all know to be necessary. I also believe that once the United States begins to eradicate the filth within itself, other nations will follow. Maybe, I have too much faith in Americans. Either way, the first nation to regain control of itself from corruption will surely lead the world in more ways than one. It has to happen from within the very ranks of government. I like your "in house" version of educating the violent, also I appreciate your discourse.
[Removed]
Thanks. I'll watch that again. It was a nice compiling of theory.
Mace is considered a peaceful take down. So I can't wait to see more police Mace some shit college students.
Are you envious the educated?
Are you envious OF the educated?-OR-Do you envy the educated?
The answer is no my friend. In fact far from it seeing as I am an educated person myself. But if you ever go to college or have been to college then you must know that there are some (pardon my language) shitty people there, who don't want to do anything and screw with the system.
As an American, I would never brutalize them for peacefully protesting. If you consider mace, a peaceful take-down of a passive non-violent protester, what other horrors are you capable of. Education, when you do attain it, will teach you that dehumanizing your neighbors leads to a worsening of the world we all live in. Which school was it you attended?
I attended Purdue University where I got my masters in aeronautical Engineering. This was four years ago. Now I do consider Mace to be non-violent take down in that it is not lethal and there us no bloodshed. To further prove my point the kids at UCLA were ordered to leave by the local police. They chose not to, then the officer clearly states he will Mace them if they did not leave they chose not to. Therefore the officer acted appropriately after diplomacy had failed by following his orders and using a little force. You seem like a well thought out person so I would like impose a question on you. What do you consider to be a Peaceful Take Down if not Mace?
Look forward to hearing from you.
I do not believe you look forward to hearing from me. Yet here I am. Purdue is a fine institution with a long history of teaching. Why would you adopt the most basal of ideologies with such an education. Mace as a tool to undermine the offensive and resistant, is far from the use of it as a tool to suppress the non-compliant. Please stop defending the use of of mace against anyone non-violent, it is arrogant,futile and degenerative. As for another way to take into custody those who have defied your commands, please re-attend Purdue and study the ideology of the most ignorant and oppressive. You may find your answer within what was not used by them.
I honestly do look forward to hearing from you I thoroughly enjoy bouncing ideas and debate one another. I mean that with complete sincerity. Now I understand your points and where derive them from, but you still have not answered my question and I do not intend on returning to Purdue to do what you suggested. So I find myself , once again, asking why you did not simply answer my question?
A peaceful take-down? Is that your question? Are you asking me what the police should have done?
Yes as I stated in my earlier post I am asking you what you would have done being in the exact same situation.
I have used violence all of my life to suit my ends, often it has accomplished my ends, more often it has created more violence in return. Simply because some believe a violent method to be acceptable, the repercussions of it usually will outweigh all gain. Need examples?
The police were not endangered, protesters were not infringing upon civility. There were no need for "takedowns", or the use of violent means however justified. The policies of the police are what needs to change, so that they have the tools to handle these situations. These situations are increasing in frequency and the violent means will undoubtedly be scrutinized further. These are not criminals, they are your fellow citizens, peaceful at that.
So in answer to your question... The police should engage, negotiate and participate in the protesters agenda to the point that the real criminals are not heeded when they call upon police lackeys to do their bidding. This all may seem alien to you, but I am sure there are great minds right now intensively studying alternative policing techniques. I honestly hope that helps you understand what needs to happen.
just a heads up - some things never disappear.
I don't necessarily advocate the tactics espoused above - but the suggestion that the Occupy Movement is anything other than non-violent is false. There is a great deal of effort that goes into spreading the word on non-violence.
It was even seen on national tv - how Occupy Protesters physically blocked a small group intent on vandalism - and did so at risk of personal injury.
I'm sure all will agree, no one is perfect.
That said, there are trolls here.
I have a list.
The list is saved.
You guys - are trolls
TROLL ALERT
If your parent is police, ask them why some police beat upon the unarmed and non-violent. Posted 5 hours ago on Dec. 24, 2011, 4:09 p.m. EST by FawkesNews
Thrasymaque
Muppetmaster
foreeverLeft
""The whole problem with the protests is there hasn't bee enough violence! We try to put people in a position for some good old fashioned skull cracking but nada! We can't get ma and pa America on our side until there are some dead babies in the street! We need to see some protestor on TV with half her face torn off to get the attention we need to further the cause!"
"Kent State won Vietnam for us, we need a Kent State now!"
How does thrashy get to run riot all over this website? Does he ever sleep?
Are those serious questions, or are you just kidding? Because those are both silly questions.
Everyone runs riot on this forum. I see know difference between Thrasymaque or anyone else expressing their opinions here. Except, I think Thrasymaque is smarter and more logical than alot of posters. He's also polite and respectful. For the most part, he's polite even when he's being attacked. Though, he may suggest a person take some medication if they are being extremely non-sensical.
I'm just guessing, but I think it's safe to say that yes, he sleeps. I see lots of people spend lots of time here posting. I see know difference here either between Thrasymaque's amount of postings or many others that have numerous posts. Do you question other peoples sleeping habits? Or just Thrasymaque's?
"Do you question other peoples sleeping habits? Or just Thrasymaque's?" Ouch! I clicked "like" for that one. Ya got me!
Tharay really bothers me. He is an enemy of OWS and he runs riot over this website. Since I do care that the movement succeed and since he does hit my posts pretty hard with his art work, yeah, I don't like him in an active sort of a way.
I don't think Thrasymaque is an enemy of OWS. Why do you feel that way?
You shouldn't take anything he does too personally though. Afterall, if this forum were strictly moderated, alot of stuff that gets posted would be deleted immediately. If the forum was moderated more strictly, and a moderator deleted something that you wrote, would you take it personally, if your post was against the rules? Would it bother you?
Not that everyone has to like him either. We all have our personal preferences.
Thras says that OWS causes police brutality against demonstrators, which is a major one percenter talking point. He says it over and over on this website. That means he is out front justifying police brutality against us even before the fact.
When i first stumbled upon this website I respected the rules, even the ones i do not agree with. Only after seeing widespread disregard for those rules go unchecked that I realized it made sense to point out the inconsistencies in the official 911 story, and the great harm this lie has done to the world and to our country. This brought me to Thrasy's attention. He sets himself up as a rule enforcer, but only the rules that he agrees with. He never to my knowledge has plastered Ron Lawl posts or racist posts or posts that actually threatened other posters, only those he deems to be "conspiracy" posts.
So, if there were an actual functioning moderation of this board I'd be among the first to cooperate. I haven't seen that yet.
I think that OWS invites police brutality also. Perhaps I'm not as vocal about it as other people.
Like in the long version of the video of the pepper spray incident on the college campus. I think it looked like the protesters invited the incident. All the protesters had to do was move over into the grass instead of blocking the sidewalk. They refused. They were told by the policeman that next they would be pepper sprayed. The police clearly warned them of the next ramification that would take place based on their actions. That is my interpretation from what I read and heard and saw in various articles and youtube videos. I think there are many other indications that OWS does not mind, and even invites and encourages, clashes with authority. Despite OWS claims to the contrary.
I see what you mean about how there is a lack of disrespect for the rules of the forum. Because of the lack of formal strict moderation, a certain "norm" has been established, in spite of the rules.
I don't think Thrasymaque is picking on anyone or any group on purpose as personal thing. He just expresses his disagreement with pictures instead of words sometimes. He's just one person. He chooses what he wants to respond to, just like we all do.
I'm not sure what posts exactly he was responding to that you wrote. I'm guessing it is was about 9/11, only because that has been a popular subject flying around. If that is the case, I think that society in general sees this as a conspiracy theory. It's not just Thrasymaque's personal feeling about it, that he "deems" to be a conspiracy. It's pretty much society in general.
Cutting to the chase then you are also not an OWS supporter but you loiter here. As for 911, a very large minority including very respected scholars and other leaders doubt the official version. More to the point Factual information is simply factual information and not theory. Try these if you are so inclined. You must agree that what actually took place on that day is significant, and that society ought to be aware of it. The society you refer to of course is ignorant often by choice.:
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-11-02/911-theories-expert-vs-expert
http://www.consensus911.org/
These sites have nothing to do with Reptilian overlords, or space rays. though from my personal perspective I can see why oppressed people engage in the same magical thinking that respected religions do, just different objects. Not angles, but lizards. I recall the expression "cold blooded" that refers to some people and things that they do. the one percent as a group conducts itself as if they were cold blooded. Reptiles are cold blooded too.
That's not very inclusive. Is there some rule that says that I have to agree with every action OWS takes in order to participate?
It's just my opinion obviously, that someone who comes to this site and blames the people who are trying to re establish democratic rights by going out there and creating public space for dissent, and who are facing a horrible and bleak future and are fighting to make the world a better place, and who get attacked physically for those very physical attacks, is not those people's friends. Just my opinion. Yeah, run on sentence at best, but there it is and you can understand it.
I understand. But I disagree. I don't think OWS protesters should knowingly put the police in that position. Especially in such a simple clear cut controlled situation. It wasn't random, it wasn't an out of control mob situation, it wasn't chaotic confusion that got out of hand, where someone made a mistake. They were warned ahead of time. They made a conscience decision to disobey the police request. It was a simple thing. Move to the grass. The protesters were clearly inviting trouble. There was no substantive loss by moving to the grass. But they saw a way to gain attention by inviting the pepper spray. OWS sees a way to gain attention by demonizing authority.
I think this is wrong and dangerous. I don't think it is necessary to demonize authority, the police, the government, to make the world a better place. I think it's the opposite. If the police or the government sympathize with the movement, rather than feel demonized by it, we are all the better for it.
I think it comes down to a moral question. Suffering is increasing, criminals are not only going scott free, they are the enforcers of law and regulation, the wealth of the nation and the world is being sucked into a little corner so to speak, and we are being driven hell bent to still another war. Even if the constitutional system were actually in force it would be impossible to correct things through that route. Therefore, Abraham Lincoln's opinion becomes valid:
Abraham Lincoln Quotes
This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin101160.html#ixzz1hrLSMMDH
You will note that this website is dedicated to "Revolution." The demonstrators go out with no arms, some might have bandanas to abate the impact of mace and that's it. They have right on their side. the cops are in the wrong to beat them, to assault them with chemical weapons and to detain them. Wrong, that's all.
I don't believe a revolution is necessary. I know that part of this movement does and OWS ptb does. That is what they say on the website and I take their word that they mean this literally. And that is why OWS ptb makes the effort to demonize authority. It helps in promoting the revolution. OWS also uses Otpor as consultants for this project, who are revolutionary experts by most accounts.
So I think that we are agreeing that OWS demonizes authority for the sake of creating a revolution, yes?? I mean, how can you have a revolution without agitating authority?
The protesters are wrong to disobey authority. Especially when there is nothing to be gained from it except to encourage the use of force by authority in an attempt to demonize that authority.
I'll take the other side of the argument. The protesters are using a good strategy by disobeying and disrespecting authority if their intention is to encourage violent ramifications as part of their goal in creating a revolution.
I doubt that a revolution will be successful. Most people will not support a revolution. But, out of curiousity, what comes after the revolution?
[Removed]
the story is he lives in the south Pacific - but I think probably it's a lie. Don't really know.
And why does he get to run riot?
Because - the moderators aren't into moderation.
Being a computer illiterate i don't know how commenters can post images. I'd like to do that but it's beyond me. I suggested some to thrasy and he says he may use some of them. alouis said 25 minutes ago at Dec. 27, 2011, 7:16 p.m. EST (delete) get out the wall paper! http://occupywallst.org/forum/lemons-into-lemonade/#comment-542673 alouis said 12 hours ago at Dec. 27, 2011, 6:49 a.m. EST (delete) Deface this, but please put up some of the art I suggested: http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-i-just-dont-believe-the-government-or-why-cant/ Deface posts with something relevant. http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/11/06/National-Politics/Images/506797818.jpg http://i.bnet.com/blogs/i-am-the-99-percent-single-mom.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-enpaouMSisY/TtfD- S3BziI/AAAAAAAAAw8/m-HN7l4bZhs/s1600/Ypfqb.jpeg http://media.nj.com/hudson_voices_impact/photo/dispersejpg-0c546a6b99cb644d.jpg http://http.cdnlayer.com/itke/blogs.dir/24/files/2010/05/backup.gif http://www.eastbayexpress.com/imager/b/magnum/3036660/c56c/editcartoon.jpg http://static.happyplace.com/assets/images/2011/10/4ea1c7d71ac4a.jpg http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4ecfaa6becad047d52000029/cartoon-pepper-spray.jpg http://www.laobserved.com/biz/crash1.jpg http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4ea855d9ecad046c19000029-915/slide-71.jpg http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4eb3f48569bedd1739000015/student-loan-debt-occupy-wall-street.jpg http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4ec246c46bb3f74e6100006f-400-/police-cops-occupy.jpg http://a.scpr.org/i/c562bb036b08aa6557059241d5ab8674/26230-wide.jpg http://wuwuming.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/china-economic-power-cartoon.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-luPv3DlWwDs/ToySEm7r8Q Information
why are you encouraging him to deface shit?
not that I really care - I've just been ignoring him.
He's going to deface. Might as well be good stuff.
PS- since he targets my comments for defacement, it's less possible for me to ignore him. He actually asked what I'd like to see in the defacements so I responded.
Ah - I see.
well it's good to know who the trolls are
You disagree with the methods stated above?
When I posted the above there were I think four comments before me, Trashy had posted twice, and I mane note of their posts below:
Where I said HeadsUp
those are the trolls I was referring; to listed in that comment.
As to your Forum Post, police officers are Union members, they are part of the 99%, and I think there is another way to go about this. It may not be possible in staunchly repelican districts.
I would note that, in all probability, you smoke pot. I don't - not that I care what you do - my point behind stating that probability is that it is a source of division, pot smokers v PD; it's a false dichotomy, the reality is that Congress has let the public down with both drug and immigration policy - just to name two issues.
I thank you for your postings. Truly. I merely feel that this movement has opened a channel for discourse in many topics previously considered forbidden. I am certain that if these issues were to become commonplace, in the homes of the police officers and the military, there would be no means left to deny the fact, that there are quintessential rights being been trampled by the ignorant and uninformed. If the very police force unions, were to become educated in the actuality of what has become legal and illegal, there would be no possible way they would continue to protect and serve the corrupt and deceitful. Again I thank you for your response and welcome any discourse.
I'm curious about "Anonymous." Does that group take a position on 911 Truth? Do you?
Anonymous has the propensity to incite curiosity. 911 is similar. The answers to your queries may give you more questions than you are prepared for. I am but one Guy.
I'm going to take that as a "no comment."
Please. Do not assume anything without a firm discussion. I am glad to do just that, soon. In fact, I'd enjoy it, and I look forward to it.
I asked, you answered. I had to make some conclusion about it. Anyhow, if you choose to discuss I hope I can keep up with that.
Thank you and I look forward to it. Please be a bit patient.
[Removed]
OWS is not "non violent" and you know it. You throw rocks and cans and excriment (like monkeys) they pepper spary you.
You sit still and they pepper spray you. It is a bad idea to spray the non-violent and peaceful with mace. You disagree?
The whole problem with the protests is there hasn't bee enough violence! We try to put people in a position for some good old fashioned skull cracking but nada! We can't get ma and pa America on our side until there are some dead babies in the street! We need to see some protestor on TV with half her face torn off to get the attention we need to further the cause!
Kent State won Vietnam for us, we need a Kent State now!
Your cynicism has a snide ring to it. I seek the humor but am left empty handed.
Indeed, this is exactly the tactic Occupy is aiming for and the police have not indulged. Most policemen have been very calm and peaceful.