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Forum Post: If you vote for Romney there will be more of the Bush idiocy

Posted 2 years ago on Aug. 3, 2012, 1:39 p.m. EST by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

That is really the only advantage Obama has over Romney, aside from fact that, apparently, Romney has a lot tax skeletons in his closet.

Partisans, on both sides the "A" displayed often on the home page of this site has a significant meaning: Anarchism. If you believe that voting for either clown will meaningfully change the system, you live in wonderful world full of fairies and elves and sugar canes and lemonade springs. Both major parties have had their chances, and both have failed the American people.

If you're going to vote, vote, but for God's sake get off your soap boxes.

246 Comments

246 Comments


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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

It isn't just 'R-money', it's the whole Batshit Bonkers Bunch of 'em !!!

"GOP Insider : Religion Destroyed My Party",

Veteran Republican says the religious right has taken over & turned his party into anti-intellectual nuts.

By Mike Lofgren.

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I've heard that before. For a while the GOP seemed to encourage intellectualism in the tradtion of William F Buckley, but apparently the rightist meanderings of someone like Buckley weren't "conservative" enough, so they discarded even that bit of sanity and went whole hog to find inmates like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Bush idiocy only inclues a few tiny tidbits


pre-emptive war
deregulation
corporporate justices
killing the economy
privatization of everything
lower taxes for the rich and the dead
paying companies to export jobs
teaching the lies that abstenence works & creationism
war on women


Bush idiocy only inclues a few tiny tidbits


[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

These NO POLITICS posters are shills for the right!

Posing as poor pure distressed OWS supporters who just want the bad pols to go away so all OWS people can fight the 1% V 99% Class War by holding drum circles and burning their Voter Registration cards!!! After you swallow a nice big drink, Please keep passing the Kool Aid along!!!

Pssssssst! WakeTFU!!!!

[-] -3 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

So tell me - what on that list has the Obimination changed?

Everything that is listed the Obimination has not made any attempt to change including the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg9m1F8B2_c&feature=fvwrel

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

ask a GM employee

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Yah, and that GM investment will never be returned to the taxpayer - so the taxpayers are paying for those employees.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

In addition to paying back a large part of the loan,
the US government now OWNS 60% of the company.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Don't forget that you will get more Supreme Court idiocy.

Well, since all of Romney's advisers are Bushies, if you didn't get more Cheney policies that would be news, wouldn't it?

A bad deal is better than a worse deal, isn't it?

I once took penicillin for pneumonia until they could get the first antibiotic. The penicillin didn't cure me, but it kept me alive until something better came along. Nobody got mad at me for taking the penicillin. And if I had died, I doubt that the antibiotics would have gotten there sooner? That election was a choice between something not very good and nothing. You may not agree but I think it was the right choice.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Thank you. Some much needed sense here, in this Russian Roulette romance.

Heat waves are NOT the time to set brush fires!!!

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Very practical thought. All of the easy decisions have been made.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

"All of the easy decisions have been made."

????

No more Voter apathy and no more Cons seem to be the easiest no brainers, yet they are not even popular on a Class War board!!!

Popular: "This whole political system sucks..." (because it's a democracy which we people have the worst turnout) "...so I'm pouting again like 2010!

Popular: The Oklahoma solution: Setting brush fires in a heat wave!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unless you are burning GW shrub?

Ooops my bad I thought you said bush fires. Boy is my face red now.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Makes you wonder how many bad ideas are the result of misperception. Like burning Voter Registration cards, and just not participating!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I liked it when people burnt their draft cards.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I'm not angry about people who vote for the major candidates. I just don't want them shoving either candidate in my face, as if that presidential contender is some holy grail from which we drink the water of happiness.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

That is awfully polyannaish.isn't it? Reality is tough enough to deal with without the rose colored glasses approach. Hold you nose and pull the danged lever.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I will definitely hold my nose, but not drink from that water of happiness.

The "reality" is that both candidates represent but two faces of the same head. If the election looks close in Nevada, I will reluctantly, probably gagging and retching, mark the ballot next to the name Barack Obama, not because I believe he's better, only because that will thwart the even-more "conservative" side from further cutting the few safety-net programs left.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

You will get no grief from me.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

These NO POLITICS posters are shills for the right!

Posing as poor pure distressed OWS supporters who just want the bad pols to go away so all OWS people can fight the 1% V 99% Class War by holding drum circles and burning their Voter Registration cards!!! After you swallow a nice big drink, Please keep passing the Kool Aid along!!!

Pssssssst! WakeTFU!!!!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I am not voting of Romney or Obama

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

If ever there was an election for a third-party candidate, this is it. The problem is no major candidate has yet miraculously appeared. The partisans will say a vote for a third-party candidate is wasted. Not in my book, it's a vote for real "change you can believe in."

Romney and Obama present nothing but the same tired arguments for the same failed system and the status quo.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I'm writing in NO WAR

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Good point. If we really stop to consider all the wars the United States in which the United States has engaged, very few were defensive. Most have been nothing more than acts of capitalist imperialism.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thinly disguised as a police action of aid. ( war fiction for the public's sensibilities )

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I distinctly recall giant heaps of mushroom clouds, thick yellow cakes, seas of China-made magnetic SUV flags, and wheel barrels of "Just go shopping" Bush blather!!

The wrong Vote will bring all that back ON STEROIDS!!!

Wake up and smarten up people!!

This is a heat wave, not a good time to set fires!!

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yes, or to "stop someone else's aggression."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - we are the worlds Big Brother - unfortunately Big Brother only seems to know how to kill. Really bad is that the worlds Big Brother has a tendency to come down on the wrong side of many issues - looks after protecting the defenseless resources rather than people.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Big Brother is right. I do get a kick out of "conservatives" saying that I, for instance, am in favor of big government, when in fact the "conservatives" are the ones that want to control almost everything people say, believe, and do.

I'm an anarchist, so the idea of a vertical government, which can dictate sexual preferences, marriage rights, conception issues, abortion choices, and virtually every phase of your life, is completely alien to my thinking.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I thought big brother was the corps that employ us

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I believe DKAtoday and I were using the term in the Orwellian sense: the all-seeing government.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

those corps have cameras

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

That they do, and surveillance is becoming more widespread. Soon, Big Brother will know what color toilet paper you're using.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

In 1988 I wrote an Op/Ed titled: Big Brother is Here ~ In the Private Sector!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

caught on early

I just wish I could access those cameras in my own defense

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Cre--dit

Follow the money

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes as long as you take into consideration of who The Powers That Be are (corpoRATions the false and inanimate people ) they are the ones currently in apparent control of Big Brother.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Of course the government is only an expression of its masters, which are the people that control the corporations.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It should have always been a horizontal process that used the public as the guiding force for decisions and policy.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

How true, how true.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We continue the struggle.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

So you want more Iraqs, and Laissez Faire Wall Street regulation. I don't!!

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I see that you posted a link to the Liar's Bible Version 2; Version 1 is on the Republican site. Both parties will tell you whatever they think you want to hear. I distinctly remember "Change you can believe in."

Now that we've had our little laugh, we should probably ask why still the wars, why still Guantanamo, why still no universal health care, why did the President wait till this year to support gay marriage? I don't want to sound like some bitter cynic, but I notice this year the slogan is "Forward." To where is what I ask.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

No more Voter apathy and no more Cons seem to be the easiest no brainers, yet they are not even popular on a Class War board!!!

Popular: "This whole political system sucks..." (because it's a democracy which we people have the worst turnout) "...so I'm pouting again like 2010!

Popular: The Oklahoma solution: Setting brush fires in a heat wave!

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

!!!!!!! Voting for either major party seems to be a waste of time !!!!!!!

Pouting has nothing to do with it. Political inaction, regardless of who "wins" discourages many people from voting. The 2008 election proved that even with a large majority in both Houses of Congress and a Democratic President, even the faux "progressive" party accomplished almost nothing.!

The fire's already out of control. Time to bring in a whole new team and system of fighting the conflagration. Maybe, though, I misunderstand you and really you're suggesting we go "forward" to more "change we can believe in."

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I tried to get the 2012 version, but I couldn't find it.

Hopefully it will be out soon, they may be waiting until the Dem convention.

As you know it has marriage freedom in it, worker and middle class benefits, as well as public healthcare.

Rest assured it won't be chocked full of bigotry and intolerance and 1% idolatry that the RepubliCon platform has!!

So, thanks for joining all of us in making sure Cons don't steal our government and bring back Bush-Cheney, only this time on STEROIDS!!!

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Take a look at this, you seem to like clearing house docs: http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/5580817?access_key=key-1zf4u6u715vizx9tyg92

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Good post Titus

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Thanks. I get tired of the Democratic and Republican shills. They want us to believe that Obama, who has had a four-year opportunity to change things with almost a congressional super-majority at one time, but has not, will suddenly became a crusader for the workers. HA!

Mitt Romney headed up Bain, which even conservadpedia recognized as a major player in the outsourcing of American jobs. If he stands still long enough on any single issue to make sense, he never clearly declares what he'll do, since he seems to change stances with the time of day.

Yet, the partisans on both sides expect us to believe that somehow Bozo or Chuckles will turn the country around.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 2 years ago

Who wins the presidency doesn't matter. They're both pwned!

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/08/glenn-greenwald-with-liberty-and.html

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yes, you will read posters insisting the fault lies with the public, because they have lost interest in the system. In the last election, the turnout was fairly decent, 63%, the highest in forty years, most of it on the promise of "change you can believe in."

The people voted; the change didn't come.

Part of the fault is in the system itself. Apparently whichever candidate spends the most money can buy the election; at least that's the implication in the media and even by the party fundraisers themselves, as they plead for more money predicting that the sky will most certainly fall, unless their candidate outspends the opposition.

I hardly call that democracy.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

If you liked Iraq and the Wall Street casino economy crash, you're gonna love the Twit regime!!

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I believe I answered that in my reply to your previous comment.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

These "NO POLITICS" posters are shills for the right!

Posing as poor pure distressed OWS supporters who just want the bad pols to go away so all OWS people can fight the 1% V 99% Class War by holding drum circles and burning their Voter Registration cards!!! After you swallow a nice big drink, Please keep passing the Kool Aid along!!!

Pssssssst! WakeTFU!!!!

Get out the VOTE!

The problem with our political system is that We the People have the worst Voter turnout in the world, and Big $ has the BEST!!

The squeaky wheel gets all the grease!!

Get all the grease, get out the VOTE!!!!!

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Of course there is also the added avantage of the Democratic Party Platform that is NOT Chi-fil-A cult worship crazy like the RepubliCon Cult is:

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/5580817?access_key=key-1zf4u6u715vizx9tyg92

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Bill Moyers may be right, but only the Supreme Court can make the final decision.

The three states in which I have voted all have required ID to register, but not at the polling places. In fact two of the states were mail-in ballots, of which I took advantage.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The right to vote needs to be defended - these attackers of the right to vote may well end up shooting themselves - as to deny something to some people will get them even more determined to have it - the right to vote.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You're right, if the right-wing nutjobs succeed in disenfranchising a large number of people, the reaction may be exactly opposite of what the "conservatives" expect.

We'll see.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It seems as though the corpoRATS are doing their best to commit suicide - problem is they want to take the rest of us with them. This blatant spit in your face posture that they have taken - is it a subconscious psychological cry for help(?) please stop me I am out of control.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

They probably don't recognize the danger in front of them; they're too busy looking back.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Greed is Blind to everything but it's mission - acquisition.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I think you mean "KingCons."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No I mean corpoRATs and their corpoRATist's in office the majority of whom seem to be hiding behind the repub banner though their are also some hiding behind the dem banner as well.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

1%, Kings, and their political arm-followers, Cons: KingCons!

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

And then we need to EXERCISE the right to Vote, or all is for NAUGHT!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Absolutely.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Hmmm...

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

"Voter fraud" is a fraud to give Cons license for Voter Suppression!

Bring in Instant Runoff Elections (IREs) and Election Fraud, which are the real problem, will be diminished, and so will the Republicons who are the real culprits behind all this fraud!!!

Meanwhile, the best strategy we have now is MASSIVE VOTER TURNOUT!!!!

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

AND an exclusively RepubliCon tactic!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - they ( corpoRATists ) are the only fingers you see pushing that particular issue/button - EVER.

[-] 1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

I was shocked that Obama continued and in some cases strengthened most of Bush's policies, the failure to close the highly symbolic Guantanamo prison was probably the beginning of the end of Obama's credibility. If he wasn't a Democrat he would have been destroyed by the media by now.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Guantanamo, the war in Afghanistan, the ever-growing use of military power.... On and on and on.

He reminds me of a closet liberal, afraid to really take a stand for something of value.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

He was! and by the sabotaging RepubliCons! both owned and doing dirty work for the 1% would-be Kings.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by cableguy223 (-24) 2 years ago

January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES! THANK YOU DEMOCRATS (especially Barney ) for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment...to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES! (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie -starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy). Barney blocked it and called it a "Chicken Little Philosophy" (and the sky did fall!) And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democrat Congress, especially BARNEY !!!!

So when someone tries to blame Bush... REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!" Bush may have been in the car but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel they were driving the economy into the ditch. Budgets do not come from the White House.. They come from Congress and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 & 2011.

In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.

For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budget .

And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009. Let's remember what the deficits looked like during that period: If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets.

If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself . In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is "I inherited a deficit that I voted for, and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20th." There is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!

" The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You're missing the entire point; both parties, ergo both candidates are basically the same.

The Republicans and Romney will only choose to spend the money on their pet projects: defense, defense, defense and trickle-up welfare. You can't for a minute believe the same failed policies will somehow miraculously work. We need new policies, a new system, and no faux leaders.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

No! You are dead wrong!

Obama and Twit are nowhere near being the same!

And it is not only specious to say they are, it's a RW and RepubliCon talking point to say they are, to discourage people from Voting. So you are a RW or RepubliCon Troll and should apologize to the people who read the board.

Get out the Vote People, there are HUGE differences!!!

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You're absolutely right. I'm a right-wing nut and I apologize to true partisan, who believes there's a real difference between the two candidates. Any person can see there's a difference. Too bad they both work for the same masters.

Partisan shill.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Spoken like a true RepubliCon Plant!

Heil Money!!!

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

And YOU are full of rotten BULL SHIT!!!

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

another Obama obsesser

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

A step up is horizontal government rather than vertical: true representation in which the politicians receive no benefits or pay above what their median constituent does, and in which they are subject to quick recall. Our "representatives" no more represent us than they do the man on the moon.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You express my sentiments exactly.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Nice and simple and stupid!

Don't be stupid, get out the VOTE!!!

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I think maybe you've been conned.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-great-libertarian-con/

For some odd reason, this reality is always removed from the equation.

Always.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

In spite of your confused communication.

You still left off that important part of the equation.

Strange that it is almost always ignored.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Don't be Conned, get out the VOTE!!!

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

And if you vote for the Obimination you will have more of the same - Excuses why the economy is in the tank. can't explain why we still have 16% unemployment, 28% for younger people age 16 to 26 and after spending 5 trillion we only have 4.5 million jobs to show for it.

That's a lot of money to be spent on 4.5 million jobs don't you think? Hell, he could have given everyone of us $100,000 with that money and still have some left over. Why didn't that happen?

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You're asking the wrong person. I don't care for either candidate and consider serious political discussion with partisans a waste of time.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago
[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

The partisans can stand on any street corner and shout the names of their candidates to the heavens, but I get tired of reading their partisan BS on the forum, when almost all of it on both sides is nothing more than fragrant steer manure.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

They fail to realize stuff like this is WAY more common in OWS than the media garbage they watch on TV....

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=444680672238343&set=a.279969632042782.68987.262695307103548&type=1&theater

[-] 4 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I see by the down votes, the partisans are upset. Oh, that makes me sad; to think that partisans believe non-partisans should vote their way to decide which clown puppet resides in the White House.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Its hysterical. A bunch of people who are Dem robots voting down posts like what I just posted a few up....

I claimed what every city needs a place for people to go and debate.

Down voted. Too funny.

The numbers of people leaving the two parties speak for themselves.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Central areas in all major cities, in which people can freely discuss issues of all sorts, would be a great idea, real public forums. I'm sure the troll would still stop by and the partisans wave their signs predicting gloom and doom if the opposition should be elected.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I have one for you

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Absolutely.

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

If you vote for obummer than look for a far worse economic down turn that he created from 2008-2012

[-] 5 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I hate to correct you with facts, but the current economic disaster began during Bush's tenure as President. In fact, if you'll remember, Bush and Henry Paulson basically designed the bank bailouts. As late as 2010, Paulson still defended the bailouts. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6152317-503544.html

One could predict with historical accuracy that a continuation of the neoliberal policies practiced by Republicans and Democrats for decades, will most certainly lead to worse consequences. Since Romney has made clear his intention of perpetuating the worst of neoliberal policies, including upside-down taxation, the economy, then, probably cannot improve under those failed policies any more than it has under the equally bad but less onerous policies practiced by Obama and Geithner.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

housing prices have been rising since 45

http://observationsandnotes.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-housing-prices-since-1900.html

the interest banks make is directly proportional amount a property is valued more

so the banks make more money by pushing housing into such prices we all live on their loans

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

A usury based economic system favors the wealthy, the money lenders and bankers and capitalists as well as the super merchants.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well said. Romney/repubs do proudly trumpet the upside down taxation that is killing the 99%.

Is it possible to get Dems to support (let alone pass) a 90% tax rate on $1 million income. Including cap gains, passive inc, carried interest, bonuses, and whatever else. As well as cutting taxes/debt for working/middle class?

Is that idealistic to think?

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I hope such a progam isn't too idealistic. A 90+% tax rate on individuals who earn more than $10 million per year is not unreasonable, cut all the loopholes, tax shelters, and tax evasion programs for the very wealthy and large corporations.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yes.! a lot of money to be had with elimination of deductions for the 1% plutocrats.

They've been screaming for a flat tax/no deductions for decades. Lets do it for them. See how they like it.

[-] 4 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yes, the people that constantly scream for a straight flat tax do not consider that someone who lives near or below the poverty level can't afford to pay any additional taxes, while the super rich can afford much than they're now paying.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

90%. baby. That'll learn 'em.

[-] -2 points by ivian (-60) 2 years ago

are you stupidly naive or naively stupid?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Smarter than the average bear!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

He-e-Yea-he-yay - BooBoo.

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

I hate to correct you but the economy started going South when "slick willie was in office" Now the current dingbat (obummer) is sending us back to the stone age

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You're wrong again. When Clinton left office, he left with a budget surplus of almost $125 billion. When George W Bush left office, he left with a budget deficit in excess of $400 billion, plus amounts he had appropriated outside of the budget to finance never-ending wars.

To be truthful, Time magazine called Bush the worst steward of the economy since Herbert Hoover. That's not good.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/04/AR2008020400493.html

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1872229_1872230_1872231,00.html

[-] 0 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

Obama is the worst steward of the economy since Carter and that aint good

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Aside from the dark recesses of your own psyche, what are your sources?

You may consider Herbert Hoover the champion of the working man and a bastion of capitalism, but almost no one else does.

[-] -1 points by ivian (-60) 2 years ago

barry isnt a steward, he's a destroyer of the economy and by extension the USA.

[-] -1 points by ivian (-60) 2 years ago

he and his owners are working over time at it.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Bush & yourrepubs crashed the economy purposely to benefit the 1% plutocrats. Your repubs continue to slow the recovery because they can't have a strong recovery while a dem is pres.

Conservative policies created our problems and benefit the 1% plutocrats.

The republicans proudly trumpet those conservative policies.
Republicans ARE the problem. Elect progressives .

[-] -1 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

You have to be a lib just like our failed leader. even after four years of failure, Bush is still to blame

[-] 2 points by flip (7071) 2 years ago

plenty of blame to go around (including clinton) but you are not making any sense

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

What I am saying is!!! Even after four years of Obama's failed policies, he still continues to blame Bust for the present economy

[-] 2 points by flip (7071) 2 years ago

well it is clear that the events leading up to the epic failure of the economy in 2008 must be placed on the bush/clinton administrations. i agree that obama did not do what was needed to right the ship - starting by putting those responsible for the crash back in power and then a very weak stimulus program. now the question to you is what you think obama should have done to speed a recovery - more tax cuts and more of the bush policy?

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

At this point I am not even concerned about tax cuts. For starters Obama could have tightened the screws on China. Also I would have never hired Jeffrey Immelt as the job czar since he is sending almost all of GE jobs to China. I know that Bush was a disaster and I had hopes for Obama but he did not pan out to well either. He also has had many failed policies in his four year term, not to mention the trillions he added to our debt

[-] 2 points by flip (7071) 2 years ago

we agree it seems - mostly. i do think your focus is a bit off. we need to tighten the screws on our corporations and wealthy - i am sure that there are problems with china but we need to look in the mirror first. as to the debt, much of it was spent badly but much of it was also because of unemployment and food stamps etc (my wife was unemployed for 20 months - we spent every dime that the government sent us). most of that was mandated by law so nothing any president could do about it and also it was a very effective form of economic stimulus. as i said there is plenty of blame to go around and lots of policies that need to be changed but this statement is inaccurate and off putting - "Obama is the worst steward of the economy since Carter and that aint good" - if you want to help then you need to choose your words more carefully. if you simply want to stir the pot then well.......

[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

I only made that comment because so many on here continue to criticize Bush. Was Bush a disaster??? in my opinion, yes he was. But Bush has been out of office now for nearly four years and he should not even be news anymore. Sorry to hear that your wife was unemployed for that length of time. I am afraid though that the direction in which our economy is headed that a lot of us are going to in for some hard times.

[-] 2 points by flip (7071) 2 years ago

we agree completely - well almost - i understand your frustration. those who love obama cannot bring themselves to say one word about his failures - and they are many. i had a similar conversation with vqag and it was a waste of time - he is unapproachable. obama had the chance to change the world and walked away from it. many including nader knew he would - here is some info on that subject from paul street - "I doubt I’m the only left political junkie who recalls that the legendary corporation-battling progressive Ralph Nader endorsed “fighting John” Edwards over the deeply conservative,[1] fake-progressive and vacuously neoliberal “Hope” charlatan Barack Obama on the MSNBC political talk show host Chris Mathews’ show “Hardball” in mid-December, 2007. When Mathews claimed that Nader had “excluded Obama from the progressive coalition,” Nader responded that “he’s excluded himself by the statements he’s made, unfortunately” – statements “which are extremely conciliatory to concentrated power and big business...The people of Iowa and New Hampshire,” Nader added, “have to ask themselves: who is going to fight for you.” Explaining why he was endorsing Edwards in Iowa, Nader noted that “Edwards raises the question of the concentration of power and wealth and power in a few hands that are working against the majority of people” [2] On the same day Nader spoke with Mathews, leading liberal economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman noted that “there are large differences among the [Democratic] candidates in their beliefs about what it will take to turn a progressive agenda into reality…Anyone,” Krugman added, “who thinks that the next president can achieve real change without bitter confrontation is living in a fantasy world.” [3] Krugman’s rhetoric mirrored that of his candidate at the time, Edwards, who had repeatedly referred to Obama’s message of conciliation with big business and the G.O.P. as “singing Kumbaya.” Edwards called the Illinois senator’s repeatedly stated desire to work with big corporations, Wall Street, and the Republicans as “a total fantasy.” Obama, Edwards said repeatedly, was selling the conservative illusion of progressive change without confrontation. “When you sit down at a big table to ‘negotiate’ with the Republicans and the big corporations,” Edwards said across Iowa and New Hampshire, “it doesn’t get you anywhere. They just eat everything at the table.”

[-] -1 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

Good post and I have never got to far with vqag either. Too bad that we all "as American citizens" cannot put our differences aside and band together to make a change. There is much hate going on between us and the Gov loves it and they can continue to go about their business screwing us over. I believe that both sides of congress should be thrown out and start over from scratch.

[-] 1 points by flip (7071) 2 years ago

a good start would be to get money out of politics

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Don't forget to mention the current batch of corpoRATist's in office - you know the ones ( majority ) hiding under the republican banner - the part of government that is in open rebellion against the people.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

We are still digging out of the hole your repubs created. Every effort to create jobs has been obstructed by your repubs.

Pres Obama/Dems have improved the economy despite the treasonous resistence your republicans have engaged in because they don't want a strong recovery while a Dem is Pres.

Repubs care more about their political success than they do about the 99%.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

I agree with the title of your post....although one could also say if you vote for Obama there will be more of the Obama idiocy as well.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

President Obama has reduced American military killing exponentially! And stopped the hemorraging of jobs (750k per month) under Bush.

If repubs didn't stand in the way on both fronts Pres Obama would have made even more progress.

That's not idiocy! That's is real progress. And yes we need to support those efforts and agitate for more progress.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Yes, lets study very closely how he's tapered back the wars...and defended our civil liberties at home:

http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.html

Libyan war....which was unconstituational becuase he didn't have the approval of congress...candidate obama running for president explains this very well for you:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I think we're done with Libya. At least Pres Obama didn't send 1/2 a million troops for 10 years & killed upwards of a million people.

That's real progress. I wish repubs would take a lesson from Pres Obama/dems on the proper way to use the military.!

We'de all be better off.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

"The proper way to use military"......unconstitutional waging of war in a dictator-like fashion should never be used as a shining example of the way to use the military...period.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Then sue him.!

We did it quick, transparently with a real coalition of Arab, African, UN, and European partners. Let the Libyan people do their own fighting and helped with some air support, some secret cia ground troops to paint our drone targets, and intelligence.

I don't see your problem. We support freedom fighters against dictators (khadafi) Do you support Khadafi?

Your just an anti Dem partisan republican, right? Jealous that Dems handled military action light years better then the inept, corrupt criminal actions of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and the republican cohorts.?

LMFAO.

Libya was a success! Are you joking.?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hear Hear - well said.

We should push for another such intervention in Syria.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Thx. I twinkle you.

Syria is extra difficult but almost done. It has many elements of the old US/USSR chess game. In fact you know that Russia, & China have vetoed our UN efforts.

Russia has it's only foreign naval base in Syria. It will be a great accomplishment to get Assad the butcher out of their.

We'll see.

Peace?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Gawrsh ( kicking ground with toe of shoe in humble embarrassment )

If they would just have the balls to go and do what needs to be done - it would already have been over. Take out the civilian slaughtering military vehicles - and let the citizens deal with the rest.

Let China and Russia toss a fit. Fuck-em.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yes. I think something is about to happen. UN guy resigned. Rebels have been using S.A.M.s and really challenging army, many defections from govt, Russian navy on the way as we speak (hopefully to take Assad away).

Hopefully the killing will end soon.

Peace

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Peace.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

VQkag .........is waging war without the approval of congress illegal?

Yes or no.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

all wars are illegal

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That was not a war and was within bounds of Presidential discretion for the circumstance. We have already been all over this issue - the action was legal as well as smart and humane.

Repeating a lie is not gonna make that lie a truth j23 - maybe you should really consider stopping drinking that lake water.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Read my reply to VQkag down below starts with "There were confirmed US ground......"

Even the guy your defending says it's illegal:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/

Granted that was a candidate Obama...not the president.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Stick your head back up your ass you are in apparent methane withdrawal. That military aid to the civilians could not have been done much better than it was.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Sucks being proven wrong..but you don't gotta be a douche about it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm sorry - If you hate being proven wrong so much.

Well - then - why do you spew so much crap?

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

What exactly wasn't factual that i said? Inform me. What crap was spewed?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Apparently you are voicing the concern anger despair and chagrin of the surprised mass murdering dictator.

Huh - who would want to defend a mass murderer of their own population?

Makes me wonder.


[-] 0 points by john23 (44) 3 minutes ago

""Earlier this afternoon, over 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from both U.S. and British ships and submarines -- struck more than 20 integrated air defense systems and other air defense facilities ashore," U.S. Vice Adm. William Gortney told reporters."

So if Russia or China did that to us (America), you wouldn't consider that an act of war? They're just making suggestions to us? That's an absurdity i can't believe anyone can even think about arguing. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

You mean the mass murderer who we gave billions to in foreign aid and helped to prop up for the past few decades? That one?

Or you mean Saudi Arabia who we sell weapons and give aid to currently (obama and previous presidents) and does the same thing to their people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag-LkH2-MRM

Yeah, Libya was completely about removing a mass murderer....DKAtoday....santa clause doesn't exist either...hate to break it to you.

That crap is all besides the point...it's about the legality of it. Is it legal...yes or no....no...so it shouldn't be done. If the president doesn't follow the laws...why should anyone else in society?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Sorry not gonna play your game.

OK one little example and then no more as you are obvious.

War was not waged by the USA in Libya.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

""Earlier this afternoon, over 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from both U.S. and British ships and submarines -- struck more than 20 integrated air defense systems and other air defense facilities ashore," U.S. Vice Adm. William Gortney told reporters."

So if Russia or China did that to us (America), you wouldn't consider that an act of war? They're just making suggestions to us? That's an absurdity i can't believe anyone can even think about arguing.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

War Definition:

"a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air."

Couple that with my post directly below "earlier this afternoon".

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Why don't you take a breath. We disagree. We believe you are lying because you are anti dem/Obama.

Why is that hard to understand?

Stop already.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No you like to twist and distort the truth with the apparent support of corpoRATions in mind - that is your game.


[-] 0 points by john23 (44) 0 minutes ago

Yeah...Obama is the peace maker...lets fact check that:

http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.html

you said "The copoRATist puppets/supporters Bush Rummey found a way to launch a war for control resources in foreign lands ( Afghanistan Iraq ) and call it a war on terror and a defense of civilian populations from despotic mass murdering dictator ( Sadman Insane ). Last administration remember that far back - can you?"

No shit....i completely agree with your paragraph 100 percent. I'm not one of those jackasses that changes my views because a certain party is in office....i don't play ball like you do DK. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

RepubliCons.

KingCons!

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Still waiting for my answer DK:

Senseless baseless allegations.....it's like talking to a 3 year old who just makes stuff up. Cite specific things i have said that are not true....i want quotes from where i wrote them...and you explaining and providing a reason for it not being true (and preferably a source...because your opinions don't do it for me...sorry).

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Senseless baseless allegations.....it's like talking to a 3 year old who just makes stuff up. Cite specific things i have said that are not true....i want quotes from where i wrote them...and you explaining and providing a reason for it not being true (and preferably a source...because your opinions don't do it for me...sorry).

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Nothing? That's what i thought....when you call someone out for distorting stuff perhaps you should be able to back up your arguments.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nope no it is not that simple - simple simon.

The copoRATist puppets/supporters Bush Rummey found a way to launch a war for control of resources in foreign lands ( Afghanistan Iraq ) and call it a war on terror and a defense of civilian populations from despotic mass murdering dictator ( Sadman Insane ). Last administration remember that far back - can you?

Obummer has not invaded anyone. He is currently ( apparently ) trying to wind down and end the two conflicts engaged by the prior admin.


[-] 0 points by john23 (44) 0 minutes ago

You mean the mass murderer who we gave billions to in foreign aid and helped to prop up for the past few decades? That one?

Or you mean Saudi Arabia who we sell weapons and give aid to currently (obama and previous presidents) and does the same thing to their people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag-LkH2-MRM

Yeah, Libya was completely about removing a mass murderer....DKAtoday....santa clause doesn't exist either...hate to break it to you. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Yeah...Obama is the peace maker...lets fact check that:

http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.html

you said "The copoRATist puppets/supporters Bush Rummey found a way to launch a war for control resources in foreign lands ( Afghanistan Iraq ) and call it a war on terror and a defense of civilian populations from despotic mass murdering dictator ( Sadman Insane ). Last administration remember that far back - can you?"

No shit....i completely agree with your paragraph 100 percent. I'm not one of those jackasses that changes my views because a certain party is in office....i don't play ball like you do DK. Can you remember that far back?? What makes you think the same stuff isn't being done today? Read Overthrow....New york times writer....been done over and over and over...and over again. It's like how many times does this crap have to happen before idiots like you realize what the hell is going on? Snap out of your stupor.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Ask Raygun!!

Ask Bush!!

Ask Cheney!!

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

no doubt....i agree...but you can also say ask obama as well.

[-] 0 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Only if you had amnesia or woke up out of a coma in 2009.

OR...?

You are a RepubliCon Plant!

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

I think you're not getting what i'm saying....i agree with you that bush and the republicans have done the same thing...all the way back to good old Ronald. But to say the dems aren't doing it too would make you a Demicon plant.

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

No, there is no comparison, only exceptions, that Cons exploit!

Get out the VOTE!

http://www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

blah...nother partisan hack. you guys needa open your eyes.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Sure. What war? Libya.? That wasn't war. You don't know what war is boss. When we war you will know it. We will send in 1/2 a million troops for 10 years and destroy everything in our path.

There will be no question. This was a little police action. The Brits did the airstrikes. We just "advised".

I think you misunderstood in your partisan frenzy to try and attach war crimes to this great Pres. It was your boy Bush who was the war criminal. Ok?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

There were confirmed US ground troops in Libya and:

""Earlier this afternoon, over 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from both U.S. and British ships and submarines -- struck more than 20 integrated air defense systems and other air defense facilities ashore," U.S. Vice Adm. William Gortney told reporters."

So if Russia or China did that to us (America), you wouldn't consider that an act of war? They're just making suggestions to us? That's an absurdity i can't believe anyone can even think about arguing.

VQkag....are you ok with Romney being able to deploy troops illegally around the world without congressional approval? Yes or no.

I hated/still hate Bush.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Spotters for air strikes - whoop-dee fuckin doo.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

You'd be cool with Russia taking out 20 of our integrated air defense systems here? I mean hell...that's not a war...right?

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

We aren't ruled by a brutal family that slaughters their own people. You forget that little fact.?

We should start bombing any dictator who murder their own people. Syria's next.

NEXT!

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Russia has no reason to - and they are not that insane. What a stupid comment for you to make.

BTW - love how you bring up all of the things that you support in defense of saying you are not a shill - funny thing though you are never to be found forwarding those issues.

Makes a person Wonder. Yep - it surly do.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

"Russia has no reason to - and they are not that insane. What a stupid comment for you to make."

What if their reason was illegal assassinations of american citizens by its own government? What if they were doing it for humanitarian reasons?

It doesn't matter if they have a reason!!! The question is is that an act of war whether we'd done anything to them or not? Would you consider Russia bombing us an act of war?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Except I believe Pres Obama did not do anything illegal. Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear. Russia attacking us would be war(not constitutionally). Us helping the Libyan people was an act of humanitarianism.

We clear?

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If the American People were being slaughtered by Their Government? And the Russians stepped in to stop that slaughter? No I think they would find a very grateful nation.

Gonna continue with your stupidity?

( well of course you will - silly of me to ask)


[-] -2 points by john23 (44) 11 minutes ago

Is it an act of war? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

We committed an act of war against libya by bombing them...because of this obama would have needed congressional approval...he didn't have it.

Now, if the humanitarian needs in libya were that dire then he should have explained it to the american people and the congress and gone to war legally with the full backing of the country. Your military wants wars to be waged in this manner...do you not support your military...the people who fight and die for this stuff? (i'll use your ridiculous tactics). They don't mind fighting...but for the love of god make it legal and make sure its for a righteous cause...thats the point behind the system of checks and balances for waging war.

Go read Rachel Maddows book....can't imagine you dont' like her.

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The US gov has murdered 7k troops in these illegal wars. You got a problem with that?

Would you support hte Russians coming in to save us from more war, and more deaths?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Look and try to understand - really!

If Libya wants to declare war on the USA - let them - But 1st ask the people of Libya what they thought of the USA stopping the government killing machines that were slaughtering them.

You have any more stupid questions/comments?

( OH I Know that I am gonna regret having asked that )


[-] 0 points by john23 (44) 1 minute ago

Is it an act of war? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Isssss it an act of war? If Russia bombs our defense sites?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yes Russia bombing us would be an act of war. not because our constitution calls it war but because it is. Now Russias constitution might allow it as an exception to actual war for some obscure loopholey reason. Get it?

Libyan govt ( and their supporters john23!) might have felt like it was war but we felt our constitution allow the action as something less than war. And the Libyan people saw it not as war on them but helping them rid their country of a butcher who slaughtered his own people.

Ok? Does that explain everything for you now. Or shoild I direct you back to the brick wall.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Thankyou!!!! It is an act of war....so it's illegal...obama committed an illegal act of war.

If the Libyan people were in that much trouble...explain it to the people here...and get the congress to approve the use of armed forces...very simple and the same thing could have been accomplished...legally.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

U present a silly sill preposition. If OUR government was slaughtering it's citizens I would want anyone and everyone to bomb the hell out of the government military vehicles involved.

Suck on that thought for awhile before you say something else that is totally stupid.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Is it an act of war?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Sorry - FAIL - AGAIN.

There were an awful lot of angry congressional lawyers because of that military strike/intervention - guess which party(?) - OH never mind. Thing is that whole situation was gone over and found that the President was in the right of it.

Go pound your head against a brick wall that needs to come down - at least be productive in your stupidity.


[-] -1 points by john23 (44) 1 minute ago

We committed an act of war against libya by bombing them...because of this obama would have needed congressional approval...he didn't have it.

Now, if the humanitarian needs in libya were that dire then he should have explained it to the american people and the congress and gone to war legally with the full backing of the country. Your military wants wars to be waged in this manner...do you not support your military...the people who fight and die for this stuff? (i'll use your ridiculous tactics). ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

"Thing is that whole situation was gone over and found that the President was in the right of it."

It was never pursued....seriously...read maddows book and maybe you'll know what you're talking about.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Marvelpym has suggested you might be a racist. I know all republicans are not racist, but I've heard all racists are republicans. Have you pissed him off?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 2 years ago

LOL! You need new reading glasses old man.

john23, i feel your pain.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah ok. John23 and I disagree about Pres Obamas brilliant approach in Libya. You agree with him?

Or you wanna attack liberals, or me, or my eye sight?

Those things are useless. You got anything of substance. Speak up. Otherwise just keep your insults to yourself.

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 2 years ago

I'm not agreeing with anybody, just busting your chops about that racist thing. But don't put words in my mouth.

And just to bust that tired refrain of yours there are plenty of non Repub racists. For one, lot's of those white supremacist groups hate all government and don't connect themselves to any party. And you live in NY. Am I the only one who has met racist Dems here? I doubt it.

So that statement is false. You heard wrong. You can't say it anymore.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

White supremacists aren't republican? LMFAO. that's some funny shit.

Thats rich. Listen I don't know who is or isn't a racist and which party they're in. How many do you think voted for Pres Obama?

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

It's like talking to a brick wall.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Feelings mutual. That is what happens when people disagree.

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[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Romney is an X governor who cannot deploy troops. So that's a pretty stupid question. I of course am against republican military action so far because they use the doctrine of "overwhelming force" ever heard of that?

It's real problem for the targeted people. The Dem way is much better. Sorry. We disagree. If your repubs where in charge we would have sent 1/2 a nillion troops and been their for 10 years.

So yeah I prefer the Dem approach.

You prefer Repubs approach?

You support Khadafi? What's your problem.?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

It's not about if i support Khadafi or not....or whether i support republican or democrats when it comes to stuff like his. You have to sit down and picture the person you wouldn't ever want to be president...and then ask yourself "would i be comfortable with him having that power."

You need to read "Overthrow" from New York Times writer Stephen Kinzer. The illegal invasion of Libya has nothing to do with the Libyan people....like every other invasion/government overthrow in our history. It's about strategic interests....or more bluntly...money and resources (most of which go to those evil corporations you hate so much). Four star general on the middle east subject before it ever happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08CnT4TtZ_U

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Oh. And here's hoping we get our hands on those African resources without killing anyone. huh?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

So it's ok with you to kill people to get their resources? VQkag...thought you were sentimental to human rights etc. You disappoint.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Hey how did our oil get under their desert!

LMFAO

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

f"d up

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

It's not ok.

I said "without killing anyone".

Didja miss that?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Way to backtrack....and even with the backtrack its jacked up. How bout we let the Africans utilize their resources...think they need it more than us.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Aaaaaaah Ha ha ha!.

You don't like that one Brother John.? It's an old one.

Breaks me up everytime I hear it.

Peace

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oil, for Italy & the europeans, Other precious metals through out resource rich Africa. I know all about it. China is makin lotsa moves (not with war but with economic investment) to have access to the African resources. Very smart.

The west also wants access to these resources. We have a very bad track record and reputation among many African nations. We continue to utilize unfortunate strategies in Africa.

We must improve our efforts. We the people must agitate for better approaches.

Having said that the Dem approach to the Libya mission was much better than repub approach.

Sorry. We disagree.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Right-ON!!!!!!!!

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I think john23 is a republican shill. And what's with that john 23. Is he some religious fundamentalcase?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Dunknow maybe the 23rd child of a polygamist?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 2 years ago

So much for that fabled Liberal tolerance of other's cultures and religions, but at least you didn't call him racist.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

"Dunknow maybe the 23rd child of a polygamist?"

Maybe the guy who's been schooling you jackasses for the last 2 hours and you gotta resort to BS like this. Start calling you guys Bill O'reilly....if you can't win the argument with facts...just start talking louder and making shit up.

I'm not a republican...i've been sitting here arguing against war with you...that's right down the republican road isn't it? Durrrr.

[-] -3 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

It's not about whose is/was better...it's about what is illegal and not illegal. If me and you went to a store and I stole a TV and you stole a mp3 player...is it ok because yours wasn't as bad?

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I like that the pope said it isn't a sin to steal food when your hungry. Regardless of the laws on the books.

And I don't think we need to change the constitution because I think there is a loophole that allows us to take part in coalition type missions. y'know like a police action,not really war.

So no need to change that old dusty constitution thingy.

See. We disagree again. How long you wanna slam your head against that brick wall. We disagree.!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

john if you read this please do I'd love to read it, someone did that for me ONCE, they (for some reason) decided not to do it anymore

VQ ,just between me and you, I think if you kill somebody not in self defense and Congress has not declared war on the National origin or at least a real group of people not a verb, I think there should be a murder trial, but that's just me, don't know if others feel that way, and unforgettably I don't think the Robert's Court would agree.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

I feel like putting a montage together of your ridiculousness and posting it for everyone to see.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

No but it is ok to go to a school yard and stand up to, and stop a bully. You see that is the appropriate analogy. killing schoolkids is not an approriate comparison. Wow. thats extreme.

Well once again we disagree. I don't really care about what is legal. I think saving human life from brutal dictators is legal. If not then sue me.

But your boy Bush got congressional approval with lies. So maybe it was "legal" but I think he is a war criminal.

Right and wrong is more than what is in some 200 year old document. We need to be smarter than that.

Anything else?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26307) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well said - Very well said.

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[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

"Right and wrong is more than what is some 200 year old document. We need to be smarter than that."

So get it change through amendments by getting like minded people to vote in representatives with a similar view of what should be changed....but until its changed its the law of the land. Maybe the problem is you don't have the support.

It's like saying "you know...stealing things from a store was a law that was written hundreds of years ago...its so outdated...i think its alright". Does that make it alright? No....it makes your butt go straight to jail if you do it...because its on the books as the law.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

So the best thing we can do is acknowledge that the environment/atmosphere of fear created by republicans when they exploited 9/11 is at the root of this problem. And at the root of the patriot act, and at the root of the war mongering "endless war on terror".

Lets recognize that the republican "weak on defense" rhetoric used for 30 years has created the atmosphere of "constant war" that republicans claim is the best economic policy. It certainly serves the 1% plutocrat Military Industrial Complex.

This is what must be addressed. This is what we must step back from. If we ain't talkin about the roots as I have liad out then we are just discussing the symptoms.

But you know all this right? I mean you ARE the smartest guy in the room right?

Republicans and their conservative 1% plutocrat policies ARE the problem.

Elect progressive.

Agitate for ending the drone attacks. "War is over, If you want it!" JL

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well we've covered the illegal war thing already so I will let that be.

NDAA. This pres has not detain any additional people. Only your boy Bushs left overs exist. Pres Obama has tried to clean that up but the repubs prevented.

Drone bombed citizens. You mean al Awlahi? 1 guy? Who swore to destroy us, and used his 16 year old son as a human shield? I guess we would have captured, and tried him but it wasn't possible Much cleaner this way. And if I'm not mistaken he did get a trial in absentia no? No good.?

What else.? Let me put your fears to rest mr smartest man in the room.

Anything else.? Did I gorget anything?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

no one uses children as human shields

the US has prove continuously that that won't stop them

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

You said: 1 guy?

You don't understand the magnitude of 1 guy. This opens the door for all future presidents to follow in those footsteps. We've just aloud a president to assassinate an american citizen and no consequences have occurred. Perhaps many years in the future a republican president views your talk on the internet as suspect...perhaps your views are a little extreme....should he have the right to assassinate you without a trial or proof of wrong doing? Ignorance....yikes. The US citizen we assassinated without a trial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j2Ofg2BacIM

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I'm just givin you my humble, barely educated opinion. I can't say I am right and you are wrong. It is my opinion that Pres Obama did not break the law. You think he did.

I believe you are a republican shill. You claim otherwise. These just disagreements. No big deal.

be calm we don't have to be enemies.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

"It is my opinion that Pres Obama did not break the law."

You would be wrong...based on fact....not my opinion.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I ain't ever seen you complain about the fundamental problem of the atmosphere republicans created. I have never seen spend one comment on the failure of repubs on the house not holding hearings on these issues.

So that is why I believe you are a republican shill.

Thank you very much for playing.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Do i believe in global warming? Yes

DO i think gay people should be aloud to marry? Yes

DO i think people should be able to smoke pot and use drugs if they don't hurt anyone? Yes

Do i think wars should only be waged when we as a nation are confronted and we have the full backing of the US through the congress? Yes

righhhhht...major republican shill right here.

Thankyou very much for getting schooled.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

When you say "people are too stupid" are you speaking for yourself? (certainly you don't speak for anyone else)

Or are you the only one who sees the coming dictatorship.? What evidence have YOU seen that indicates we are on the way to dictatorship.

I haven't seen you mention any evidence. Is it a secret for only the smart ones?. Anyone in this forum as smart as you as well.?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Assassination of american citizens without trials....imprisoning and shipping american citizens off to prison camps without due process....secret kill lists approved by the president..illegal waging of wars...illegal searches and seizures....the right to free speech in "free" speech zones....illegal torture of detainees.....unlimited control of the money supply...illegal wiretaps and surveillance...no accountability of the president to follow the rules and laws of the land.

"too stupid"

Referring to you in a nice way.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Blah blah blah. Obama, attacked. wah wah wah! war powers act.

Yada yada yada. He can't have a successful military action without the protests that Bush had. It's not fair! Why does he get to bomb without being accused of war crimes like Bush.

It's the same as Bush. It's the same I tell you.

sniff sniff.

unconstitutional why won't anyone listen.? why won't anyone sue him? he's bad. illegal. war powers.

mommy, I need you.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Take your meds man.

That's fine....enjoy the next republican president who continues the long line of illegal wars. This country is becoming a dictatorship and people are too stupid to see the glaringly alarming steps in that direction.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I reject your definition of Pres Obamas brilliant actions in libya as illegal. I submit to you that is your opinion.

In any event You or anyone else can sue him.

Good luck in all your good efforts.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Of course, you protested when Bush did it (as did I) but Obama gets a free pass (I dont sell out).

Well, we got their oil under control. And we stopped them from creating a decent currency in Africa. So I guess, when the empire is your god, yes it was brilliant.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

I'll just start copy and pasting my same comments:

Did obama commit and attack cites in Libya with US air and ground forces without the approval of the congress and not in self defense? Yes. Is this illegal under the War Powers act? Yes. Does it make the war unconstitutional and illegal...yes. Not hard.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Ridiculousness"? Oh now now. I know we disagree but there isn't any need for you to get upset. S'ok. We can't all agree. That's what makes America great toleration.

A montage. You mean like a greatest hits. Sounds cool. Can I have any input on the final editing. Seems like maybe it would be approriate for me to have final say.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Lol...VQ....you usually don't have any logic to back up your statements....you don't look at anything anybody suggests...you make up a lot of the stuff you say..but you make me laugh and i can't say i dislike you.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I don't believe you.

And you don't think we should our most powerful military in the world to police and stop the murderous dictators who kill their own people.?

Isn't that an acceptable, righteous use of our strength?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Lol "i don't believe you"....yeah....cause i'd sit here and say that stuff if i though the exact opposite.. I went to school for green design....jackass.

you said "And you don't think we should our most powerful military in the world to police and stop the murderous dictators who kill their own people.?"

my answer: not if it is illegal.

Is it ok for me to go to a school playground and kill all the bullies to make the world a better place?

if obama had gone to the congress and got approval then great...its got the backing of the people and congress...go fight your war...its legal. And if the situation were that dire for the people in Libya i would think there would be overwhelming support to get this accomplished by the people here.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"without killing anyone"

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well I think there is a loophole. So there. I don't it is simple as you say. I think we must this superior approach or we will be subjected to the criminal actions of Bush and the repubs.

Sorry. Gotta agree to disagree.

Be cool. It's all over. We succeeded! WooHooo!

USA! USA! LOL

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Wow...that's pretty disgusting to read....that surprises me...particularly from you.

All that shit about SS and helping people out....BS. Lets kill people and steal their resources....right.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The dem approach to the Libya mission was not illegal in my opinion.

Sorry. We disagree. We'll have to move on now. We will not convince each other.

Peace.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Did obama commit and attack cites in Libya with US air and ground forces without the approval of the congress and not in self defense? Yes. Is this illegal under the War Powers act? Yes. Does it make the war unconstitutional and illegal...yes. Not hard.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You're only arguing against Pres Obama. The meaningless comments about hating bush are not impressive.

Why haven't you mentioned the failure of the repubs controlling the house to hold hearings against Pres Obamas brilliant Libya mission.

How come you haven't railed against the republican fear mongering, and war mogering that has brought to this current state of "endless war on terror" Your repubs created that atmosphere! No mention of that fundamental issue. This Pres has begun the long slow process of undoing that damage.

You ain't kiddin anyone.

right wing much?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

you said : "How come you haven't railed against the republican fear mongering, and war mogering that has brought to this current state of "endless war on terror" Your repubs created that atmosphere! No mention of that fundamental issue. This Pres has begun the long slow process of undoing that damage"

I have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't change my views because of what party is in office like you do!

War in iraq....disgusting war that should never have been fought...Afghanistan....supposed to be a find bin laden mission and turned into overthrowing a country and propping up an american puppet..all while repubs were in office....to exploit strategic interests in the region.

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Now you are seeing why this forum was so alive with great thinkers months ago, and now its dominated by 4 Fools who simply cannot debate anything.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Yeah...it's ridiculous. I need to just start ignoring them.

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[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I thought I made that clear in the rest of the post.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So?

More teabagge(R)s for you?