Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: If you are over 40 years old. P L E A S E DON'T try to FIX ANYTHING! Haven't you screwed up our future enough?

Posted 1 year ago on May 10, 2013, 7:27 p.m. EST by Jason91 (-50)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Anybody over the age of 40, P L E A S E keep your ideas to yourself and stay the hell off this forum. Where were all your great ideas years ago? Who cares about your useless old Reagan and Clinton anecdotes? That's ancient history! Your generation is an epic failure. Let us young people map OUR own future. You screwed the world up and now all the sudden you have all the solutions? Your track record speaks for itself. Stop trying to "FIX" things for us, before it's too late.

112 Comments

112 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 13 points by NotMyWI (17) 1 year ago

I'm over 40, over 50 as a matter of fact, and many of my over 40 and over 50 friends occupied Freedom Plaza in DC and the capitol in Madison, WI. Many of us have been in the anti-war movement and the environmental movements since the 70's. We're the people who got the moratorium on Nuclear power plants being built, marched to bring about the end to the Vietnam war and got the government to clean up rivers and toxic waste sites. Look up your history the Ohio river was on fire in 1969. I was 9, so my generation didn't create this we inherited it and tried to fix it. Things could and would be much more screwed up if not for people like us, who have worked hard to do what we can.

Just as in your generation, everyone in my generation did not participate nor particularly care about these issues. They wanted to have nice comfortable lives and not worry about these issues. No generation has a lock on doing the right thing, I'm sure your generation has it's share of both sides of these issues.

I believe you are shooting yourself in the proverbial foot. Division is the tool of those who are screwing over the majority of the people worldwide. They get you to fight me, so they can go about doing what they want, while we squabble amongst ourselves instead of going after the real problems. So I would say that the title to this post has no place in a solution, unless or course you want to help those who truly want to suppress you. I think you should ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish and if anyone who is fighting for the same changes that your are should be alienated.

I think putting something divisive like this on your forum opens up discussion and that is always good, perhaps some people feel this way and communicating with others will help them see that division is not the answer.

You might also want to rethink your disrespectful attitude because if it weren't for us you wouldn't have had enough education to know that there was something wrong, I'm not sure we are going to be able to say that when this current generation comes of age, and that would be our fault, mine and yours.

I could go ride my bike, ignore these problems and possibly have the rest of my life relatively unscathed by what is going on, if I went along, but I am not. My family and I are making sacrifices of our personal time, money and energy fighting against the fascist system that is destroying everything that was good about the US.

So I suggest reexamining your stance and welcoming those who will stand by your side and work with you, we may not always agree on everything but the big stuff is what's important. Either way it doesn't matter to me, I'll do what I believe is right for the same reason I always have, because I believe it's right. Good Luck to you!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good comment - more will read it if you put in some breaks to the Wall of Text. More reader friendly if you make some paragraphs to break up the comment a bit.

[-] 1 points by NotMyWI (17) 1 year ago

Yeah you're right I should have maybe next time.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Still can - click the edit button at the bottom of your comment.

[-] 1 points by NotMyWI (17) 1 year ago

Okay I did. Thanks :)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No prob

Much More Friendly To The Eye.

[-] 1 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Well said. To be honest my post is only how I feel sometimes. But, I think it is a position worth stating. It is very sad to see our future crumbling in slow motion before our eyes. As each day passes still nothing changes.

The older generation still has this meritless arrogance, thinking they are problem solvers. That would be fine if they thought of revolutionary ideas that could be accomplished without begging our corrupt establishment. This is compounded by their weird "Stockholm Syndrome", respectful clinging to the establishment. An establishment that has proven to be a bunch of con men. The Baby boomers still clutch onto status quo, corrupt political dynasties/ parties for our future salvation. I can imagine this forum soon will have posts like: Go Hillary or Jeb 2016! or Chelsea 2020 ! It's sickening.

Most likely we are thirteen years into the most challenging century in the history of mankind. By the end of it, technology will likely displace most human labor, rendering our present society obsolete. We can't wait around for a bunch of bought and paid for corrupt politicians to save our future. We need to start making our own future.

  • start communities without debt. Help each other build Hi-Tech future designed, low cost, efficient, modest homes. Have communities that can provide for themselves, instead of depending on BOA for money or Monsanto for our food or our corrupt govt for our salvation.
  • grow our own organic food in communities greenhouses
  • produce our own heathy bread, cheese, beer, wine, etc
  • provide our own water.
  • provide our most/all energy needs.
  • provide community schooling.

  • communities that free people from overlords that make us wage/debt slaves. Choking on their chemical ladened, poisonous food, air and water.

Imagine thousands of these progressive communties are developed. Each helping one another to evolve. Time share by sending someone to a community in Belgium to learn how to brew great beer. Or France to learn how to make great bread, cheese. Or Australia to learn how to build the newest future home design, etc.Have a great geometry teacher video conference a class each day to numerous community schools. etc.

There is so much more that can be accomplished if we start doing it ourselves, instead of waiting for corrupt leaders that will only harm us in the end.

[-] 4 points by NotMyWI (17) 1 year ago

So we have a meeting of the minds. I agree with many of the points that you made. I believe grassroots organizations are where we should concentrate our efforts. I will not be spending my time on electoral politics because the system is broken and we need different ways to effect change. I don't believe that we can effect a change in the political situation until we create change on the ground. There is no way to compete on the playing field of the fascists who have taken over our country. We need to create a ground swell of grassroots groups that can push change from the ground up.

[-] 1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

So you’re saying build a commune and become a hippie? Seems I’ve heard that message before. Oh, yea, In the late sixties. “ Don’t trust anyone over 30”

For example, I’m too old to be a baby boomer. I was born before 1946. My generations moniker is the “Greatest Generation”. I doubt we really are the greatest generation, but someone stuck the label on us. So do us older folks get a pass? Is it just the baby boomers you hate, or is it everyone over 40?

Your youthful arrogance is astounding. While it’s normal for younger folks to be more confident (and cocky), it’s surprisingly naïve to say “my generation” is the best and brightest. Every generation screws things up and also accomplishes great things. Your failure to recognize that fact is really naive.

Also, what makes you think your generation will accomplish all the things on your list? The utopia you seek with you list has never existed, and probably never will. It’s possible nothing on your list will ever happen. Then who you gonna blame.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Where, exactly, did he say "build a commune and become a hippie?"

That is a textbook logical fallacy. In fact, in this case, it's two logical fallacies rolled into one - begging the question and poisoning the well.

They do train you little dogs - woof, woof.

[-] -1 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

OK, In all fairness I should have said high tech commune and high tech hippie. Did you read his list. It essentially says drop out of society and build your own little world (community). Sounds like a (high tech) commune to me.

Anyway, I was being sarcastic. His belief is if you’re over 40 you no longer count. I was attempting to show the absurdity of the ideas. Lighten up a little. You know as much as I do his beliefs are bullshit.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

The breath whose might I have invoked in song

Descends on me; my spirit’s bark is driven,

Far from the shore, far from the trembling throng

Whose sails were never to the tempest given;

The massy earth and spherèd skies are riven!

I am borne darkly, fearfully, afar;

Whilst, burning through the inmost veil of Heaven,

The soul of Adonais, like a star,

Beacons from the abode where the Eternal are.

-P.B. Shelley

[-] 0 points by grapes (2775) 1 year ago

For her influence on global affairs, Chelsea 2020! She belongs to the younger generation and can be a good beachhead of importance in the conquest of the establishment.

[-] 2 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

"Chelsea in 2020!" That would be funny if it wasn't true.

It is amazing how political dynasties that have done so much harm to our society are idolized.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2775) 1 year ago

A daughter or son can influence the parents' future orientation greatly. Chelsea will have to LIVE with the legacy of her parents. Do they care more about the well being of their daughter more than street demonstrations and protests? I would say yes so Chelsea will have a say. We are all very much connected, including the establishment. When our own starts TALKING to us in our homes, offices, synagogues, churches, mosques, etc., we ALL listen, especially of pillow, bedroom, dining room, or living room talks. The other very loud speech to the establishment is through the bottom-lines in the board rooms. Say what will happen to the profits and follow through with the social pressure to make them so. If the judicial system does not do its work, we ALL have a lot of EXTRA-judicial methods to achieve our ends. Even demigods on Earth have significant others whose views and well being they care about.

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

You know, after thinking about it, maybe you have a good idea. Clearly the over 40 crowd are clueless and have no value. I say FEMA camps for everyone over forty. They are a drain on society and we simply don’t need them. We should also consider sending the ill and handicapped to FEMA camps. Why in the world you care what a cripple thinks. They’re useless and non-productive. Also, the Christians are dangerous and hold back progress, so off to the FEMA camps with them. Also, If you were born south of the Mason-Dixon line you are suspect and will be required to prove you have what it take to be one of the privileged class of young people.

We, the important youth, can fix all the problems. We just need to get rid of all the dead weight and losers before we can move ahead.

[-] 1 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

I think your comment demonstrates my point. I don't believe my generation would do the egregious things you imagined. This is an example of the old people's mindset and their predisposition toward cruelty. We can't have leaders whose minds are stuck in the industrial age.That is why we need young people with fresh ideas. Young people that look forward into the new millenium.

Considering the older generation's shameful past failures, I think it is logical to step aside and let new ideas guide our future.

Your generation has had it's time to lead. Now look at today's mess ! It would be different if society was well run and things were going great. Then I would fully support the status quo. But just look at this dystopia our society has turned into !

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Young people who admire Gordon Geko? And feel that Greed is Good?

It is not age that makes a good person - it is a persons values.

[-] 1 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

We need leaders who are good people with values + good ideas.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We need people in office that work for the people that uphold the Constitution - we need Good Public SERVANTS

[-] 1 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Yes, adherence to the bill of rights must be restored.

Money must be removed from politics.

No more corporate lobbyists.

No more political parties.

No membership/allegiance with outside groups. cfr, tc, etc.

Unfortunately the situation has become so dire, we're going to need GREAT leaders to dig us out of this mess. Mount Rushmore Great.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

As long as the leaders are willing to step aside after clearing out the mess. As to be a leader - those who seek to lead - often times requires that individual to have traits that are undesirable - like a hunger for power a bit of too much love for self etc.

That is why we need good public servants - not leaders - servants.

[-] 1 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

The source of the problem is the corrupt system more so than the corrupt leaders. As soon you as replace the corrupt leaders, the new "clean" leaders will become corrupted because of the system. We need to change the stage. The actors are just a result of the stage we have in place.

This is why OWS wants a political revolution. It wants to replace representative democracy and capitalism with anarcho-communism. This would do much in curbing the possibility of people making decisions to act from greed.

[-] 0 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

With technology increasing the rate the future is evolving, Artificial Intelligence is probably closer than we can imagine. Perhaps human greed and weakness can be replaced with a Govt comprised of logical, incorruptible A.I.

Distasteful thought, but someday it may be the only way to cleanse corruption from govt.

[-] 2 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

Greed can be curbed with a proper political system. Greed is bred from representative governments using capitalism. This corrupts our leaders. With anarcho-communism, there would be a lot less greed.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Greed is within every man regardless of which political system he is part. When he chooses selfishness over justice is when he becomes corrupt.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Narley (-628) 1 year ago

I don’t know. Seems to me we’re screwed. We can’t vote our way out of this mess. People will not wake up. That should be obvious by now. The masses are too comfortable and secure. Only when conditions and circumstances force people out of the serene lives will things change. It doesn’t matter which generation is running things, we’re still screwed.

Time to buy guns, lots of ammo. Learn to live off the grid. Doom is upon us. This is more true than most people want to believe.

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5849) 1 year ago

Anybody under the age of 40, P L E A S E keep your ideas to yourself and stay the hell off this forum until you're ready to stand up and actually do something. Where are all your great ideas that you're actually willing to act upon? Who cares about your useless old complaints if you're not actually willing to do anything about them? You're not even a has been having done nothing so far! Your generation needs to quit complaining and start organizing. Map YOUR own future and actually DO something. You continue to screw the world up participating in older folks' wars and now all the sudden you have all the solutions? Your track record speaks for itself. Stop complaining about things as if everything is only about you and actually DO SOMETHING before it's too late.

Here's a start.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/

Can you tweet? Can you do a simple thing like tweeting to merely expand awareness of what young people could collectively do to change the rules of the game IF they simply decided to? Is that too much to do? A tweet?

Quit complaining until you actually start doing.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I think my name says it all. This country has no Debt Suspension rights for its citizens and if some were created, it would instantly level the economic playing field.

[-] 0 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

Occupy was mostly started by the under 40. You don't think they should participate? The new world should be created by geriatrics? Old senile people like we have on this forum? Please.

You realize the geriatrics that predominate this forum don't even participate in OWS events. People like DKAtoday and shooz have never attended a single event. And you're telling the under 40 to participate with tweets? The old geriatrics on this forum tweet, the under 40 are busy protesting in the street like real activists.

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5849) 1 year ago

Real activists actually take action to institute things, not just protest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter

Twitter has been used for a variety of purposes in many industries and scenarios. For example, it has been used to organize protests, sometimes referred to as "Twitter Revolutions", which include the 2011 Egyptian revolution, 2010–2011 Tunisian protests, 2009–2010 Iranian election protests, and 2009 Moldova civil unrest. The governments of Iran and Egypt blocked the service in retaliation. The Hill on February 28, 2011 described Twitter and other social media as a "strategic weapon ... which have the apparent ability to re-align the social order in real time, with little or no advanced warning." During the Arab Spring in early 2011, the number of hashtags mentioning the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt increased. A study by the Dubai School of Government found that only 0.26% of the Egyptian population, 0.1% of the Tunisian population and 0.04% of the Syrian population are active on Twitter.

Twitter has been adopted as a communication and learning tool in educational settings mostly in colleges and universities. It has been used as a backchannel to promote student interactions, especially in large-lecture courses. Research has found that using Twitter in college courses helps students communicate with each other and faculty, promotes informal learning, allows shy students a forum for increased participation, increases student engagement, and improves overall course grades.

In September 2008, the journalist Clive Thompson mused in a The New York Times Magazine editorial that the service had expanded narcissism into "a new, supermetabolic extreme—the ultimate expression of a generation of celebrity-addled youths who believe their every utterance is fascinating and ought to be shared with the world."

As of 17 April 2013, the ten accounts with the most followers belonged to the following individuals and organisations:

1.Justin Bieber (37.6 million followers worldwide)

2.Lady Gaga (36.1m) - most followed account for a female

3.Katy Perry (35.0m)

4.Barack Obama (30.0m) - most followed account for a politician

5.Rihanna (29.2m)

6.Taylor Swift (26.3m)

7.YouTube (26.2m) - highest account not representing an individual

8.Britney Spears (25.8m)

9.Shakira (20.4m) - highest ranked account based outside the United States

10.Justin Timberlake (18.9m)


Clearly, it's not the over 40 crowd that's responsible for Twitter's popularity. Jack Dorsey is someone under 40 who actually did something by creating Twitter. Julian Assange is someone who two years ago was under 40 and had actually organized something worthwhile.

The Death of Truth: Chris Hedges Interviews Julian Assange

Sunday, 12 May 2013 09:44 By Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Interview

http://truth-out.org/news/item/16322-the-death-of-truth-chris-hedges-interviews-julian-assange

People above and below 40 should keep their ideas to themselves until they're actually ready to do something. Being seen and heard at protests means nothing if you're not committed to anything behind the scenes for actually getting things done.

[+] -4 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

Who cares about Twitter. It doesn't help our cause. The young people in Occupy are doing many actions, not just protesting. They are in the streets helping the poor, fighting against foreclosures, helping people out of debt, etc... The affinity groups make plenty of positive actions for change. The geriatrics on this site do nothing. They just send tweets. Tweets that are not translated into action. People read and forget. You're clueless about Occupy. You should go out in the streets and do some actions at an OWS event. That would help you understand.

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5849) 1 year ago

If effectively spreading awareness of how to change things isn't your cause, you have no significant cause. If working towards establishing a national credit union, mutual insurance company, and an institution for establishing cooperatives among the underpaid and unemployed segments of society isn't your cause, then again, you have no significant cause for the overall improvement of society. Solutions aren't built in the streets. The poor don't need limited gestures of help. Society needs enduring independent alternatives to the economic abuses of Wall St. and corporate America. You're clueless if you think that being seen and heard in the streets while thinking up limited gestures is going to somehow bring about change without any commitment to actually building anything. That's why people protest; to draw attention to the things they either can't or won't change for themselves, expecting someone in authority to do it for them.

Without a national credit union, people will remain the victims of the predatory banks and lending institutions that will continue to create the homeless. Without a national mutual insurance company, people will remain the victims of the impoverishing profit driven private insurance companies that will prohibit inexpensive health care for the masses and further increase the homeless. Without an institution for developing cooperatives specifically with the unemployed in mind, people will remain the victims of lay-offs and being underpaid and yes, of course, being homeless. And without awareness of how to come together beyond partisan differences to insist upon issues of importance to all, people will remain the victims of the corporate bought politicians and judges who will support all kinds of laws for removing you from the streets and placing you behind the bars of corporate owned prisons where involuntary servitude has always remained constitutionally legal.

As shown before from the wikipedia article, Twitter has been used to organize protests and revolution and can certainly be used to simply spread awareness of what can be done among those most likely to actually do something. Not wanting to undertake the responsibility of building independent institutions is one thing but not wanting to even spread awareness among those who would be interested in building independent institutions is quite another.

[+] -4 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

Are you clueless about Occupy? It's not just protesting. Read up on Occupy Sandy and other affinity groups. People out there in the street for Occupy make a difference. Your old goons tweeting around don't.

[-] 6 points by LeoYo (5849) 1 year ago

Are you clueless to what I had just written above about limited gestures? I already know about the affinity groups. There have always and will always be limited acts of aid and assistence in every society. That's called treating the symptoms. It doesn't deal with the actual curing of the disease. That requires actual work in building independent institutions for the prevention of the symptoms.


http://rollingjubilee.org/

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?screen_name=StrikeDebt

Interesting how at least one of the Occupy affinity groups supports tweeting for its cause. I guess by your standard they're just a bunch of old goons who don't make a difference.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

There's even a app for that.....................:)

FoundLove

http://rabble.ca/news/2013/05/want-to-start-next-occupy-revolution-theres-app

[+] -4 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

That's called treating the symptoms. It doesn't deal with the actual curing of the disease.

Are you saying geriatrics tweeting achieves more than youths actually doing actions on the ground? Occupy usually uses tweets to promote their actions on the ground. If it weren't for the under 40, Occupy wouldn't even exist my friend.

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5849) 1 year ago

I'm saying that the youths' actions on the ground aren't aimed at curing the disease. The youths' actions on the ground are only aimed at protesting and being further seen in treating the symptoms. I'm saying that when invited to merely spread awareness to other youths who would be interested in curing the disease, there is resistance to even that.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Are you clueless about Occupy?

Yes - Yes U R.

Sorry - you were looking in the mirror as your fingers typed - Right?

[-] -2 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

You agree with LeoYo that Occupy is only protesting? Sorry my friend, Occupy does a lot of actions as well. They helped feed the hungry in Occupy Sandy. In the Jubilee affinity group, they paid of over a million dollars in people's hospital debts by buying off the debts. That's something!

And what do you do to help people? You send letters to the government.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You agree with LeoYo that Occupy is only protesting?

If that was what was said - than no I do not agree.

Your old goons tweeting around don't.

This is where you are clueless(?). I Honestly don't think so. No your attacks on spreading information via social networks are pervasive.

BTW - I was kidding - "sorry" - as I was not sorry. Just telling U so that U R not confused.

[-] -2 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

I'm talking about how Occupy does not only protest, but does action as well. Your response is that I and clueless about Occupy. It's pretty clear you are clueless. Occupy does do actions, not only protests.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ur a nowhere man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mj7Rlh2lJo

Ur game is doing the twist - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwAcr-S1LSw

As there is nothing straight about U - U R also A loser - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGQLVkbthzs

U never knew - the way - instead U wander somewhere out there - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m9Woo6UwoI

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Hey old timer, relax, your pacemaker is gonna start smoking.

You convinced me. I now want to be just like your generation. I'm going to start kissing the establishment's ass and begging them to throw me crumbs. Maybe I can go protest, get pepper sprayed, beat up by the police and incarcerated without miranda and habeus corpus. That's what will happen, because for generations you've been bending over for the establishment. Then when they throw you crumbs, you congratulate yourselves for little victories. Well congratulations, your submissive weakness has allowed for this fascist, jackboot on our neck dystopia.

Of course your solution is to campaign for Jeb or Hillary in 2016. What a joke!

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5849) 1 year ago

Look within and you will discover that you are already all that which you've described.

[-] 4 points by gsw (2877) 1 year ago

Gen X barely has foot in the door, the boomers are energizer bunnies.

Gen X hasn't had opportunity to mess up as we've been in shadow of boomers.

Patience grasshopper, said the shaolin monk, what was that ol western Kung Fu David Carredine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_J4TRYxpmU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'd like nothing more than to let youth use there energy and spirit to fix these issues.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I "fought" against the Vietnam war - before you were born.
Maybe if me & my brothers & sisters had not, you could be drafted and sent there today..


Jason - the first sign of being grown up is being able to think & make specific decisions without generalizations

all old people are -------------
all green people are -----------
all people who believe ---------- are -----------


.....................................................................GROW UP JUNIOR

[-] 3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Actually Jason, the internet has really only been in full force for the past 13 years. Try and imagine a world where when you wanted to find something out, you drove to the library.

Want to call a meeting, you went to kinko's, made flyers, and posted them. Left messages on answering machines and then hurried home to check the machine, or if one was advanced enough, called in and checked their messages.

What is really comical about your attitude is that many people over 40 think the younger generation is the least equipped to make any true progress, and I would suspect in large part because of attitudes like yours.

You should be searching out those who protested 20 years ago the things you protest today, rather than assume everybody over a certain age is the same.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

What is your Model of the World and how do you see people within 15 years of your age able to change the world. We have at least 6 Generations living right now. Your Generation is probably approximately 30 Million people?

I have a cynical Model of the world, a Spiritual Model, and an Economic Model:

Cynical Model states that the world runs by people with Power, Status, Position, Networks, and Wealth. This means there are always bosses, mean people, and people with more power who are in charge. In this world people always tell you things like: you don't have enough experience, street smarts, training, college, degrees, titles, network, supporters, or Wealth to be a "Player". The thing is these people never leave, retire, or die. Not in my lifetime.

Spiritual Model is that people as a group have the power to change the world if they have the right ideas, drive, attitude, and some undefinable traits. Current Labor Laws, Civil Rights, Women's Vote, Black Vote, the Social Security Act, and Occupational health and Safety Act prove this works. I think this only works if we Value People before Corporations & Money and Ideas like War. Normally we all think of the Spiritual Model as Inclusive not Exclusive.

Economic Model is a modification to our current system using the constitution as it is now. We have a Mixed Economy and we like having Social Programs and a Safety net. We have capitalism, but we want to protect the consumers, our pensions, our retirement funds from greedy Financial Vultures. Right now we have a Limited Democracy and the problem is that our representatives take money and gifts from corporations and government employees have relationships where they move between jobs in Industry (conflict of Interest problems).

But my Economic Model has hope in that just as Banks Create Money for Free out of Thin Air. There are Economists that say that with our Fiat Money we could do things like Socialize Tuition or eliminate the interest rate on student Loans. I don't really have a model in the sense of something formal. I'm not an Economist. But the University of Missouri, Kansas City has Economists like William K. Black & Randy Wray behind this Model called Modern Monetary Theory. You might want to check it out.

Also Check out:

◾Warren Mosler
◾Stephanie Kelton
◾Ellen Brown
◾L. Randall Wray
◾Marshall Auerback
◾Scott Fullwiler
◾Mitch Green
◾Michael Hudson
◾Dan Kervick
◾Robert E. Prasch
◾Felipe C. Rezende
◾Pavlina R. Tcherneva
◾Eric Tymoigne
◾Joe Firestone
◾Michael Hoexter

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/05/make-em-prove-the-causality-before-they-cause-any-more-suffering-part-three-reinhart-rogoff-retrospective.html (article that proves Forced Austerity is based on Biased Study by Reinhart & Rogoff)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30367.htm (Banks Weren’t Meant to Be Like This by Michael Hudson)

Article provides interesting History of banks, Germany Developed the Industrial Banking System.

Looks like I need to read it again myself... it is a packed article... Maybe,.. Scan it first before reading.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Boring divide and conquer bullshit written by a 42 year old loser who is a shill for ALEC and the Republican Party.

[-] -2 points by justiceforzim (-17) 1 year ago

You had me til you labeled him a con. He's just an asshole and they come in red AND blue, dickking

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

You would no more about cons than I would. In fact I would say you are quite close to that subject, in both senses of the word.

[-] 2 points by nazihunter (314) 1 year ago

You are right, but don't give up older folks who take your side. The New Deal turned America into the American Dream. Every generation since has failed to uphold that promise. My parent's generation, mine, and the one that followed. The fellow who speaks below is also correct. There are those who older who fought on your side. However, to the extent that ignorance is passed on is astounding. I wouldn't have believed it myself until I went to live in the Bible Belt for ten years. Comics joke about the stereotypes but they are real. In fact, I've met many, and I mean many, 20 & 30 somethings who believe the same old tired stuff. The most important thing you can do is to get people on your side. Selfishness has taken over our society so badly that it has obliterated right and wrong, morality, and soon, humanity. If I took the most religious person in the Bible Belt, say he's a real estate agent-and all he has to do is tell a prospective buyer one little lie to buy his self a nice big commission-will he sell out? The answer is sad. We are all connected. One person's prosperity really is dependent on another's. To the extent that we can no longer see that, we will destroy each other.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

The problems that we face today are the continuation of problems that have existed for at least four thousand years. OWS is a protest against the financial abuses of Wall Street, which is just the most obvious representation of today's globalist financial empire.

Globalist empires have existed since the ancient Babylonians, and have been practicing usury and other financial abuses ever since. Its a bit short sighted to just blame it all on the generation that preceded your own.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13263) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Another brilliant repelican strategy to keep the movement of discontent divided and so ineffectual.

you one percent lackey you

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

Wow... First Time Ever Offended Here !!!!

hehehe... he might be right ... ;)

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I probably share as many of the articles here on my own blogs as anyone else who posts here. The youngun's are just too "with it" to share the decent OWS topics elsewhere.

Just another way in which you don't know what you are doing. Should I make a list of all ways you are lost?

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I would suggest the author of this thread suffers from empathy disorder. Empathy disorder is the inability to feel empathy for anyone older than oneself, can't screw, or get high with.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

STINKLE

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

well... if you are under 40.... you might not have heard of "Wild in the streets" ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_in_the_Streets

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

huh? i think there are people who know what time it is that are in their 70's the old school radicals. they know. they experienced cointelpro.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Jason91

No Profile Information Private Messages

Information

Joined May 10, 2013


'Nuff said.

[+] -5 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Girlfriday, so old, the last time anyone considered you a girl was before Reagan. Also with a nasty gutter mouth that would make Lil Wayne blush.

'Nuff said.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Not bright enough to get your message out with one ID? Still living with mommy?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Am I? Hmmmm...........so basically you got your dumb ass kicked on the forum and had to get another ID? Nobody buying your idiocy today? Or ever?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Ah..........you didn't get banned. You have multiple IDs..........nice.

[-] -1 points by Dmooradian (-74) 1 year ago

Yeah, you are correct. Go get a bunch of tattoos all over your body and get started!!!!

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 1 year ago

I guess all the shit that the "under 40 age" have isn't because of the Over 40 age is it.

Lets take away all those inventions and lets see how the under 40 age survives - they won't - well there some that will but the vast majority are screwed because they are as dumb as a rock.

Can't even change the oil in their car let alone figure out what a electonic ignition is. But they do know how to text, tweet and facebook all brought to them by the "over 40" crowd.

[+] -4 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Big Stormcrow "invention man". I'd like to invent a way to have you keep your old last century, screwed up ideas to yourself.

Old crow aren't you about due for a hip replacement?

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Why do you think the dumbing down didn't include those under 40? And why do you discard the notion that it takes more than 40 years to learn enough top know how to fix the mess?

Consider this. Behaviors are controlled by the unconscious mind.

Including yours.

If the behaviors of leaders are bad, and they are unconscious, so they actually do not know what they are doing or why; are you better of understanding the unconscious.

Remember, you do not know what you do not know.

Also, you seem to be effected by cognitive distortions. Generalizing and all or nothing thinking WILL prevent actual critical thinking.

[+] -6 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Hopefully all you people on here will get alzheimer's soon. From the looks of it, very soon. That way you'll forget, that you think, you know everything. After that we might have a chance to mop up your mess.

[-] 3 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

I doubt you know how to use a mop, but I'll think about it.

So what's on your map?

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Dude, you are using the linguistics of Babylon and do not know it. The below list was created by cognitive therapists to help people that were using distorted thinking for their reactionary relations, and, not happy with it. The same linguistic structures were taught through TV, film, music and popular culture at large. Mostly a field called semiotics was used to design sitcoms, series, game shows, reality shows. This was all done to disable resistance to the nwo agenda.

Such began with a subtle conditioning to social issues to create another form of socialism, as a default based in language dysfunction.

Here is what you wrote Jason: "Hopefully all you people on here will get alzheimer's soon. From the looks of it, very soon. That way you'll forget, that you think, you know everything. After that we might have a chance to mop up your mess."

I'm going to show you what you are doing from the list below in the order of the specific distortions you make.

"Hopefully all you people on here will get alzheimer's soon." 1. All or nothing thinking: 4. Minimizing: 8. Emotional reasoning: 12. Entitlement:

TRANSLATION FROM YOUR "SOCIALESE": All of us act like we are diseased, worthless, and people should be disgusted because they are entitled to more than this.

"From the looks of it, very soon. That way you'll forget, that you think, you know everything." 6. Fortune Telling: 4. Minimizing: 2. Over generalization: 12. Entitlement:

TRANSLATION FROM YOUR "SOCIALESE": Behaviors are controlled by the unconscious mind. I see everything, even tomorrow, I don't want to know what you don't/won't have, and we deserve more than this.

"After that we might have a chance to mop up your mess." 6. Fortune Telling: 8. Emotional reasoning: 4. Minimizing: 7. Catastrophizing:

TRANSLATION FROM YOUR "SOCIALESE": After ignoring what you don't/won't have, all those with the same vision as mine might avert the catastrophe you are responsible for.

COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS

  1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.

  2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.

  3. Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.

  4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

  5. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.

  6. Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established

  7. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.

  8. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation. ie.

  9. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.

  10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.

  11. Personalization: Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.

  12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.

If the dumbing down was not effective, you will be able to tell me what your first constitutional right is.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thumbs up. Dr. David Burns would be Proud. Solidarity.

[+] -4 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Dr. Redandbluestripedpill I presume? Is that's your professional name? Thanks for your "linguistics of Babylon, semiotics, nwo agenda" diagnosis. If anyone needs mental help I think it's you. Please take 2 Redandbluestriped pills, adjust your nwo, babylonian,semiotic tin foil hat to right antenna 47.66 deg E and left antenna 42.33 deg W while chanting "I hate Adam Weishaupt". Additionally, remember NOT to listen to Alex Jones for at least 3 months. Hopefully that will help snap you out of your delusions.

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Your reply indicates you are a cognitive infiltrator which means you are against human rights, freedoms and justice.

[-] -3 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Cognitive infiltrator, hey. If you say so Dr Freud, I mean Dr. Fraud. Do you think it's responsible to try and give amateur psychoanalysis on this forum? Perhaps it would be better for you to practice your medicine in a more practical environment. Hopefully after you get a legitimate license for doing so. IMHO.

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

ID'ing cognitive infiltration is not psychoanalysis.

Now I'm wondering because a coginfil would never be so stupid as to think I was offering PA.

Maybe you are just super conditioned and perform like a coginfil automatically.

If you try to answer and tell me what your first right is, I'll have to consider that you are simply conditioned.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Jason91 = Clueless or Shill or clueless shill?

Your Diaper needs changing U R stinking up the place.

[-] -3 points by LoneRanger (-307) 1 year ago

Not everyone wears adult diapers here like you.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LoneStranger ( and they don't come stranger ) U still here - Hey?

Fuck-off.

Fail

ur

u

r

a

Failure

[+] -7 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

You're the expert on stinking up the place.

Now oldtimer, don't forget to take all your medicare prescription pills after checking you blood pressure and sugar levels.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Jason91 = Clueless or Shill or clueless shill?

Your Diaper needs changing U R stinking up the place.

[-] -2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Leaders don't complain and blame. Forget who did what or what they will do next. If you need to be in control of what is yours, take responsibility like a leader.

Or follow a good leader.

Don't have a hissy fit here.

[+] -6 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Name one great leader from your generation. Get out of the way and let our generation lead our own future.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

Well stop FUCKING off and Lead Away... where's your answers ?

[-] -1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

How do you know I'm older than you?

[-] -3 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Because your thoughts are old.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You mean - not child like - like you? Immature Spoiled brat child at that.

[-] -3 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

"Spoiled brat child", but facing an austerity charted future. Thanks.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Don't thank me - thank the corp(se)oRATions - and their cronies in office you know the ones in the co-opted Corp(se)oRatist party Oooops formally ( formerly ?) known as the Republican party?

[-] -2 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

The Repugnantcan'ts are definitely the worst, BUT the Demo-rats are right behind them. They are ALL on the take. Corrupt puppets of the 1%. ANY politician who "understands" why money in politics is OK, is the enemy of all good citizens. If they continue to take money, they are corrupt frauds and not authentic public servants. Yes, from Obomba down, it doesn't matter how many lapel flag pins or tear jerking patriotic speeches they give. If they are on the take, they are all actors and frauds. If they do not fight tenaciously everyday to stop the corrupt effect of money in govt, they are against the people. Period.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good reasons to support Move to Amend.

As Well As Support Actions Such As This:

This is our best shot to undermine Citizens United.

New Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) chairwoman Mary Jo White is considering a rules change that would require corporations to disclose their political spending. The best part: this solution totally circumvents Congress, which is too flooded with corporate money to take action.

We must take back our democracy from corporate interests. Click here to send a message to Mary Jo White and the SEC in support of this crucial change.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Heheheheh. Shooting the messenger, are we?

You're avoiding the fact that the global financial crisis (tm) and the accompanying austerity measures are, in fact, an orchestrated cash-grab by the insane drop-bears, mistakenly labelled as "elites"?

Nice turn of the other cheek. Are you Christian, by any chance?

[-] -3 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

The "drop bears" created this society and all the rules against us, so no wonder they always win. It reminds me of playing a start up game in 2nd grade. Only a small few of the best players were permitted to change the rules mid-game if their team started losing. The "bad players" would say nothing because they knew they were losers. (side note: sorry bad players, please forgive me for my past misdeeds)

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They might manipulate society, but they didn't create anything.

Currently, they are in grave danger of exposure, and the sphere they fear most is the internet, and the free speech component.

Do you believe that the drop bears created the internet?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Do you believe that the drop bears created the internet?

Nope that is outside of the box thinking, as well as out of the box ( confinement ) communications. They were blind to it ( fortunately ) and it's possibilities.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Unfortunately, they've found ways to capitalise on it, and abuse the priveliges of it, but it still remains the most powerful tool available to the masses today.

Good thing that the information super-hiway works both ways.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (34977) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good thing that the information super-highway works both ways.

Yep - absolutely check out this OutBound Traffic:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/democide-murder-when-your-government-kills-you/#comment-969295

When you look - be sure to scroll all of the way to the bottom of the comment. {:-])

[-] -2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Imagine what it was like 20 quick years ago when the generation you think you're talking about was your age. Think they may have had the same feelings you have now?

[-] -2 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Yes, but they did nothing! Now we will have to do a hundred times more work and suffering to make up for all their inaction.

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Show your capacity, act to use the truth of 9-11 effectively. Where would you start?

[-] -1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

The environment you're raised in determines your behavior. How can you know what's right if you've never known it.

Your parents and their parents were trained by tv and radio to be ignorant and in denial. It wasn't their fault. You will be in their shoes soon.

And yet, many strong leaders emerged. Not the government officials, but the activists. There are leaders on every level, in every community. Many you ought to pay attention to.

A small number of capitalists have the experts and governments in their pockets, bought by the fortunes their fathers stole from the less fortunate/greedy. Over the centuries they mastered the skills of manipulation of populations.

You're wrong to accuse a whole group like this. You seem reasonable, just pissed off and confused. Fear leads to anger and then hate. Fear is the mind killer. But you won't be fucking up like this forever.

[-] -1 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

OK, but it is frustrating to watch your generation cling to the status quo. It wouldn't be so painful if you would admit the establishment duped everyone and sever all ties of loyalty towards them. Instead you see people clinging to Obama now or Hillary and Jeb in 2016, WTF! C'mon! these people are obviously the puppets who got us here and I can see them getting lined up to be our leaders in 2016.Unbelievable!

Once again! Any politician who accepts money in politics is a fraud and enemy of all good citizens. It doesn't matter if they wear lapel flag pins, shed tears while giving patriotic speeches or visit wounded warriors. I don't care, if they are not fighting every day to get money out of politics, they are liars, frauds and traitors.

People can bitch and whine about a hundred different problems going on, but NOTHING will change if the rich can buy our law makers. Why is that so hard for anyone to understand?

[-] -1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

Oh, we understand. Few people vote actually, because we know. There is no point because it's frodulent.

Just don't blame people here for how things are. We're actually doing something about it.

Tell me what you think of this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-govern-a-modern-nation/

Would like your input. PS I'm closer to 30 than 40.

[-] -3 points by JbelowtheV (-3) 1 year ago

Oh get out...gen X created the internet and every last avenue you have as a tool left to you. At least study some generational dynamics and blame the baby boomers. They're generally nuts.

[+] -8 points by Jason91 (-50) 1 year ago

Your biggest invention is our dystopic society. You are burying our future in YOUR debt.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Of course, our little right wing fascist puke.

[-] 0 points by JbelowtheV (-3) 1 year ago

It's ridiculous to divide people by such elementary brackets. Counterproductive and purposeless. There is no generation without its heroes and villains.

[-] -2 points by freemarket5555 (-182) 1 year ago

Young people VOTED FOR MORE DEBT! Debt they will be on the hook to pay back. How stupid is that?