Forum Post: If Mittens pulls this one off.......
Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 30, 2012, 8:15 p.m. EST by Builder
(4202)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
An excerpt from MAtt Taibi's analysis of willard in the recent Rolling Stone. Oh, Robert Reich made the same point, more succinctly and less amusingly.
By making debt the centerpiece of his campaign, Romney was making a calculated bluff of historic dimensions – placing a massive all-in bet on the rank incompetence of the American press corps.
The result has been a brilliant comedy: A man makes a $250 million fortune loading up companies with debt and then extracting million-dollar fees from those same companies, in exchange for the generous service of telling them who needs to be fired in order to finance the debt payments he saddled them with in the first place.
That same man then runs for president riding an image of children roasting on flames of debt, choosing as his running mate perhaps the only politician in America more pompous and self-righteous on the subject of the evils of borrowed money than the candidate himself.
If Romney pulls off this whopper, you'll have to tip your hat to him: No one in history has ever successfully run for president riding this big of a lie. It's almost enough to make you think he really is qualified for the White House.
One thing, it's "Myth Romney." Only facts stand in his way.
Yes, I am better off than I was four years ago, in one small way, only because I don't have see a buffoon right wing fact-inventer spew spin and make up stuff, start wars for no reason, 24 hours a day.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/31/2275430/campaigning-republicans-show-aversion.html#storylink=misearch
And McCain was insane last night pushing the right wing war machine, and bushes handlers are waiting in the wings to get back in the world spotlight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovAL6_wLMw
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/08/31/2275136/at-gop-convention-in-tampa-full.html#storylink=misearch
For me, Obama isn't reversing the Bush Doctrines, prosecuting the war criminals, so I must look to a real human rights fighter, who chan help change the tone in the country: www.voterocky.org
Since the CBO can run their model with various policies (they ran it with Romney's budget and found that the same number of jobs will be created with them or without them, 12 million), it would be interesting to run it with the policies that Obama wanted to see where we would be today without subversive GOP obstruction.
He tried to avoid upsetting them to try to get them on board (stupidly most think) so some of his proposals weren't exactly what he wanted but what he thought he might be able to get.
He was obviously wrong on a number of civil rights issues, why I don't know. But I do know it could have been worse. And It can certainly can get worse in the future.
yes, I had heard about the 12 million jobs could be achieved regardless.
On the other hand the Sunday Morning News Shows said that would be ambitious, and how would it be accomplished, with no real plan, except "energy" could create 1 million jobs.
I am afraid the Republicans, who seem to say one thing and do another, will run up deficit more, and at same time slash social programs. Romney says he wants to keep military spending the same. But with the way he and his party are rattling the sabers, it is like they have not learned anything from the Bush Years.
Actually he said he wants to increase Defense spending, but that was in the morning, by night his position had changed, not once but several times.
If you go back the early Bush years the GOP quotes re the economy shows that they were all for stimulus consistently. It was part of their argument for his tax cuts. It isn't what they believe that is scary, it is what they are willing to do. They have deliberately sunk the economy, laying off public workers, withholding transportation project funds etc. Anything to sink Obama. Anything! So, they proved they could make it worse, and we are supposed to blame that on Obama? Whose policies are we really following? Theirs, not his.
This article is gonna be huge. Taibbi is heroic. Just saw him on current tv talkin about this. Everyone should read this & everything he has written.
"The result has been a brilliant comedy: A man makes a $250 million fortune loading up companies with debt and then extracting million-dollar fees from those same companies, in exchange for the generous service of telling them who needs to be fired in order to finance the debt payments he saddled them with in the first place."
MSNBC has been reporting this for weeks & clearly using the word LIE
I see three big issues:
So you criticize the man who has been successful and support the man who had no experience. That makes a lot of sense.
Obama "saved" GM
willard wanted to let it die - like many of his aquisitions
what do you think will happen if willard-david-charles-sheldon
aquires America
Do you also think it was good that some of the big banks were saved? The banks, just like GM and just like countless other companies in America, made poor business decisions and found themselves floundering. I don't the government should be choosing who can survive and who can die just so GM can continue to produce crappy cars and Wall Street can continue gambling with our money.
If GM makes such crappy cars why have their sales skyrocketted? USA has made a PROFIT on this bailout
Banks - a completly different matter.
We should have bailed them out
with many conditions - such as
we own part of the bank.
no employee should make more than a certain amount
obligations to loan money to small borrowers
etc
Because the government buys a ton of them, as they should though considering they wanted to make a profit off of the loan. That doesn't change the fact they are crappy cars.
My wife and I were test driving SUVs earlier this year and the Chevy Traverse (or the GMC Arcadia) was a complete piece of shit. Cheap interior, no power, and no fun to drive. Once you add in comparable options, we got an Acura MDX for about the same price and get a much nicer car.
Seriously though, don't take my word for it. Go test drive some GM cars and then try out a similar Japanese made vehicle and see the difference in quality. Or just go to Consumer Reports and see the difference in reliability. The Big 3 have certainly made improvements but they have a long, long way to go to be able to compete successfully with the Japanese.
Why GM over Ford? Why make those decisions and not let the market make them. Why Solyndra over Devon Energy.
It's clear that the business world has no confidence in Obama and won't spend as long as he is in office proposing these crazy ideas which means high unemployment.
any businessman that refuses to spend - who knows he can make a profit should be fired. profits are driven by demand - not tax cuts
why let the govt make the decision to subsidize oil companies
Oil companies should not GE subsidized just like Boeing should not bu the EXIM bank was just renewed.
Companies are private. They do not have to listen to the whining of a bunch of socialists.
"Mitt Romney, Catastrophe : Barack Obama, Disaster" (Video - Cornel West and Paul Street) :
"When the Rich Have 85 Percent of US Wealth, ‘Equality of Opportunity’ Can’t Exist", by 'The Young Turks with Cenk Uygur & Economist and Nobel Prize winner Dr. Joseph Stiglitz :
"From Democracy to Neoliberal Oligarchy", ('KPFA - Guns & Butter', Audio Interview With Dr. Michael Hudson) :
The Fkn MSM 'Smoke & Mirrors' & total lack of any true journalism in The U$A is utterly mind blowing ! Mitt for B(r)ainS is giving his speech tonight & I have resolved to watch it !! Wish me luck !!!
Good Post 'B' & 'onyer m8' & just heard that Clint fkn Eastwood is going to be there for The Romulan !!
WTF ?!
qui tacet consentire ...
Yeah, you'll need all the luck you can get.
Clint (or Clunk, as we call him here) is possibly racist.
In all of his movies, try and spot an Afro-American. It's like they don't exist.
You are a complete fucking asshole, total. Grade A sphincter. Asshole personified.
In Clint's Oscar winning movie Unforgiven, he co starred Morgan Freeman. Black. In his Dirty Harry Movies he co starred a black, a fmale and a Latino.
How about Invictus, which includes Nelson Mandela as a main character? How about Bird, an autobiography of Charlie Parker, a black man.
I love destroying fuckheads. Man, did I crush you!!
Bahahahahahahahah. You are a total grade C dunce.
I like how you take the bait every time. Catfish stew.
Cover your lying ass, pussy whipped, weak spined, dogworm coward, i just ate you for lunch. And quit licking my boots, they are shiny enough after stepping onyour throat.
BOOTLICKING COWARD
How young are you?
I've been on political boards for nearly twenty years.
You've fallen for every bait in existence.
I'm thinking your time here is pretty limited, so get all the profanities you can think of out there real soon, now. Unless you've run out, already. Catfish stew.
'B' : 4am where I am - what about you ? & OMG ... do Americans really buy this Romulan shit ?
Lunchtime here, Shadz.
Just watching my brindle staffy pup chewing on his first big pork bone.
Lucky You - I'm watching an Alien Human Hybrid preparing Alien Take Over !!!
You watching coverage of the RNC? Strong stomach?
I'm In Training ! Gorra know Romulan from Vulcan from Ferengi !!
Gorra learn their lingo & help prepare The Human Resistance !!!
corpoRATist's - go heavy on the Ferengi. But also psycho and sociopaths so plenty of Romulan too. Logic? Huh. wouldn't think you would need much Spock lingo.
Who TF is gonna "live long & prosper" with these Repugnant Fools ?
LOL - There - that is exactly the problem. Wish more folks around here ( USA ) were more noticeably aware of that fact. Though the closeness of the race(?) - I am wondering cause no one I have talked to on the street has any good thing to say about the current RINO's in office or running for office.
Not an Americanian so don't get "RINO" but I survived The BBC coverage of The RNC !!!
Republican In Name Only
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (6772) 0 minutes ago
Not an Americanian so don't get "RINO" but I survived The BBC coverage of The RNC !!! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Huh ?! Now I'm seeing DoUble !! Time for bed !!!
LOL. Good for you. I think.
I've got a Big Barf Bucket handy !!!
I'm eyeing it up as I type !!
Mitt for B(r)ains for POTUS
... u couldn't make it up !
Oh, I get what you're saying now.
Alien takeover is right though. LOL
"Romney and Ryan : Right Wing Billionaires Think it's Time to Take the Gloves Off", by "The Real News" { http://therealnews.com/t2/ } :
"The right wing elite think they can make a major breakthrough, they can end the last vestiges of the welfare state".
e tenebris ...
Long Live Homo Sapiens Sapiens !!!
OOO - I thought that pork bones were not good as they splinter.
These are spinal bones.
Too thick even for the little fella to crunch.
Gotta get rid of all these tiny little needle teeth of his, first up.
He's chewing everything. My toes included. OUCH.
LOL - yeah them puppy needle teeth are somethin else. Good for em to learn as to what is acceptable for them to knaw on too.
That one bone has kept him going for two hours now.
Best value dog chow in the shop.
Awesome pup pacifier. Yeah used to like to give my Dogs Cow Bones.
Local butcher. Had only pork.
Doesn't seem to matter though.
No I don't suppose at that young age - needle teeth and all. One of my Neighbors used to give his Shepard a bowling pin to chew on - I never cared for him doing that though.
Whatever.
It's All Gone Nuremberg, 1939 !!! But it's Tampa, 2012 !! Big Barf !
verum ex absurdo ...
talking numbers not issues
Mitt is the 2012 version of Kerry/Dole.
The bombs are still dropping, the banks are still robbing.
No need for change. Plus, Obama is a better bullshitter than Mittens, which is crucial for maintaining faith in this broken down system.
Rocky Anderson calls Obama the more effective evil.
http://www.voterocky.org/spoiler_or_moral_alternative
Evil nevertheless though, right?
Yes. A wolf in sheep's clothing is more dangerous than a wolf.
I'm of the opinion that the current prez might not have been aware of the role before stepping up to the plate. It becomes a survival role thereafter.
I think he knew that Goldman Sachs didn't give him over a million dollars in 2008 out of the goodness of their hearts.
It's the game they all play on their way to the seat. I mean that he didn't realise that his promises mean nothing when up against the criminals really in control of the White House.
The last admin was just as much in the dark to the machinations happening behind his back, and that's how the big players like it. The VP, on the other hand, made little secret of his involvement. Rubbed everyone's nose in it.
very well said indeed
Well said
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"How Did Mitt Romney Get So Rich ?" :
by Robert Reich.
e tenebris, lux ...
Oh, a past abuser.
Welcome back ol' chum.
A big difference is the risk tolerance in running a company compared to running the United States. More debt means more risk, but it also could mean more growth. With a company, sometimes the debt is worth the risk for the possibility of a big pay day. When you consider the whole US, it is a whole other story because the possibility of bankruptcy is obviously more catastrophic for the United States than for a single company.
Not that I think Mitt is the man to be President anymore than Obama, but he obviously understands the concept of debt and leverage and the risk/return associated with it.
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Look a little deeper.
Mitt understands lumbering a profitable company with debt, and milking it into extinction for his own personal gain. Jobs lost mean people homeless.
As the article states, this means he's almost qualified for the White House.
I have no doubt Mitt made money when a company went under but he would make a lot more when it was successful. I am sure he wanted every company he bought to be as successful as Staples or Dunkin Donuts or whatever other profitable company Bain owned, for no other reason than they would make more money. I agree that he was only in it for personal gain, but the most personal gain was achieved by growing successful companies. The goal was to take on debt to grow a company and sometimes it would backfire. The debt of the US and the debt of a private company are two completely different things.
every company that obama backed/gambled on ( with taxpayer money) went bust.
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Powerful stuff. Corporate piracy.
Crapital Venture - Venture Crapitalism? You bet - cut throat from way back.
It's from the original link up top.
Should have read the whole thing before I posted it.
Too much on the plate at the moment. Thanks ZenDog.
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[-] 1 points by Builder (1686) 0 minutes ago
It's from the original link up top.
Should have read the whole thing before I posted it.
Too much on the plate at the moment. Thanks ZenDog. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
quite true, obama, his owners, his adminstration ,dont give a damn about america.
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romney will be in louisiana today meeting with jindal,...... obama, ? where is he?
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If a republican president was in office you ( and the entire left wing media, abccbsnbccnnmsnbc , the ny times, boston globe, l.a times) would be screaming " where is the president". romney is there to day speaking with jindal. obama is showing up sometime on monday, after he gets in some fundraising .
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any comments about what ray nagin said about making new orleans a " chocolate city"? the is no missing you racism in that unless you're willfully blind and deaf.
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still response about the racism of black mayor, ray nagin, no matter what you post , it doesnt change the fact that new orleans in below sea level and will ALWAYS flood.
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go ahead, state the obvious, ray nagin ( balck democrat) is a racist. the msm never went after him on his statement. new orleans is below sea level, a 30 minute cloudburst floods the streets, i've been there and seen it for myself. it has nothing to do with" global warming "or "climate change". its below sea level. your bias is showing.
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Zen, I know this is an odd request but.... In the top comments panel, top right on the main forum page, I have a comment but it's a comment in mid argument and has no place getting that many votes, will you vote it down for me. That kinda stuff doesn't need 5 votes. Substance is the only thing that should be getting so many votes.
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Thx anyway man.
the msm attacked bush over katrina, the dem governor ( blanco) and new orleans mayor didnt do much of anything to help their people. in fact, the local police left town . nagin ( the mayor) never called for the city to evacuate,.............they had the school buses to do it but didnt bother to. obama could not a flyover to view the damage, disrupting nothing. after the BP oil spill, obama did nothing. in fact , he prevented help for the situation. 13 countires offered high tech help but obama said no. he could have suspended the jones act in order for these countries to help and then reinstated it. but all obama cares about is obama.
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wikipedia in not a credible source for anything. neither is carter. by the way do you remember ray nagin ( democrat) saying that when rebuilt, new orleans was going to be a " chocolate city". thats in your face racism. if a republican said anying about a city being a vanilla city, the press would have been all over it, yelling racism. no comment about the mayor NOT having the city evacuated?
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facts are never comfortable for dems.
like presidents?
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That would appear to be exactly the case.
Now, all that is really needed, is for that reality to be exposed in the military and police force, and drummed into their heads repeatedly.
I'm pretty sure that the three-letter orgs know already. If they don't, I'd be surprised.
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It's a great con, isn't it?
That, and the old same-sex marriage, and women's rights over their own bodies.
Been the same "debates" for every election for how long now?
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I watched Sen. Bernie Sanders tearing into Sen. Inhofe just a little while ago on the Climate Change issue.
It's actually incorrect now to call it GW, because in all likelihood, the real danger will come from intense high pressure systems like those proposed in the movie; The Day After Tomorrow. The reason why they find Mammoths with food still in their mouths, frozen solid.
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Granted, but the deniers (Gawd bless there cockle-hard hearts) point to some of the coldest winters on record, mostly in the midwest, as well as in Russia, China, and the north of Japan.
The current argument in Australian scientific circles are all discussing climate change, so if you must stick to your guns with AGW, then I will know what you are saying, but will you know what we are talking about with CC?
And I already know it's a kind of corn chips, okay? Heard that one. LOL
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It's what I would call "grasping at straws" but you know how pedantic and puss-like these deniers can get, yeah?
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So there were a few success stories in the gambling process?
That's a relief, actually.
The last repub prez had a terrible record of company ownership.
I believe Dominos and Sealys too.
I find it hard to believe that anyone, Republican, Democrat or otherwise, actually believes that Romney wanted companies they bought to fail. I have no doubt he was all about personal gain, but the biggest personal gain was made by growing companies, not bankrupting them.
I believe it's called flipping. Same concept as when you flip real estate. Sure, you can make more in the long run renting a property out, but people that flip properties aren't in it for the long haul. "A fast nickle is better than a slow dime" as the old saying goes.
But in order to flip and make a profit, you typically have to improve the home. You don't leverage the home and then let the bank foreclose on it if you are trying to flip it.
Debt is not necessarily a bad thing. A large amount of debt allowed me to go to dental school, buy a home and then buy a practice. Without debt, I would not have been able to do any of it. Things were certainly very risky when I had so much debt and I carried a lot more life and disability insurance than a normal person my age, but it also held the possibility of a large return. You can't do that with a country though because the consequences of too much debt are so much more catastrophic to the population as a whole than individual personal and corporate debts.
The US should carry some debt. There is probably an optimal level to provide growth with a reasonable assumption of risk and I don't pretend to know what that level is. I just feel like we are probably above it.
Often, when flipping real estate, they'll put the minimum amount possible into the property. You can do wonders with a few hundred dollars worth of paint. You have to pick those properties very carefully to actually earn any money, it's not as easy as it sounds. Often, they'll look for houses that have tax problems and need only minor fixing up to flip them. I realize the details are different than what some think Romney was doing, but the concept of the fast nickle over the slow dime is valid. A lot of people don't want to be tied to the day-to-day of a business, they just want to make a quick profit. It's kind of like those individuals that are better at starting a business than running one, a concept I can relate to (on any project, I'm a great starter but a terrible finisher). Those guys will start a biz, get it running well, then turn it over at a profit. I'm not sure that's what Romney was doing of course, but I can see how the concept might apply.
Agree completely that in many cases debt can be a good thing. A lot of things couldn't get done without it.
Yes, debt is how the system functions.
Unfortunately, when you de-regulate an industry, and expect them to self-regulate, the greed inherent in human nature can result in the LIBOR "scandal" which hasn't really been in the news as much as it should be.
True. Greed is pretty much the underlying cause of most if not all our modern day problems.
Money becomes a game, when you have too much of it.
This is left-field, but I've read how the whole women's movement was a social experiment started by one of the wealthiest families on the planet.
That's a hell of a coincidence. Less than two weeks ago I read an article on line titled "How the Rockefellers re-engineered women." What are the odds of that?
Yeah, what's the odds?
If I was religious, I'd say that the devil makes work for idle hands.
Imagine the scene. Sitting around getting waited on hand and foot, imagining how you could screw up the family unit, and put most men in the doghouse.
Bet they got some laughs out of that one.
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I wouldn't put it past them.
In fact, there's pretty much nothing these greedy pricks do, that would surprise me.
I'm looking forward to the day when we all have to find out if we can make it on our own.
I've been in training for the day. Anyone else been training?
Not to mention the massive untapped revenue generated by creating a second breadwinner in the house. Yah, now we can buy that second car! And remember when girls that smoked were viewed as the 'bad girls?' We can't have that. Gotta turn women into heavy smokers as well. Need that revenue to move into foreign markets that have no age restrictions. Gotta get them into all those markets that used to be traditionally male-dominated, like sports enthusiasts. Yep, I believe it's very possible it was a social experiment designed to break up the family unit and turn women into consumers rather than 'homemakers.' At any rate, it's certainly turned out that way, to the great benefit of the elite.
There's been a covert movement to destablise the family unit for quite some time now in Australia. Probably for the same reasons you mention above.
More bums in more housing. More chickens in more pots. Make sure that women think they are being hard done by, even when they aren't.
Advertising since the seventies has been pretty much ridiculing men, and taking away their dignity as breadwinners and protectors. It's no surprise to me that friends I've know all my life are opting out of society, and heading for their "caves" again.
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So the national debt is no big deal? Please to explain.
The last admin can't account for 2.3 trillion dissappeared in the Pentagon's budget. Did you have a point to make?
You can't answer the question. 2.3 trillion is not 15 trillion. I don't care about that retard Bush. I'm asking you about your master the retard Obama.
I don't need to answer that question. The defecit was already there when Obama won the seat. I bet he regretted it from day one.
I'm in Australia. I vote independent, which you don't seem to have the ability to do in the US of A. Poor you.
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Dole and Kerry feel sorry for Romney, being paraded out there with no shot of winning.
he still have money when it's over
and after analysis they found Romney's "budget plan" would add 2.6 trillion to the debt - FACT
Romney talking about fixing the debt is as hilarious as Obama talking about peace and civil liberties.
And as funny as someone voting for someone they don't like because they really don't like the other guy... something "both" parties are doing. What a world what a world. Never mind the other people on the ballot. They can't win they say. You have to vote this way they say.
Maybe it's true about crashing the economy?
There seems to be no real effort to reduce the debt, from either camp.
I think it's more about crashing the government. Allows private interests to take over. Crashing the economy as well.... allows them to buy shit cheaper or pocket cash on the downfall while the workers lose their jobs. This creates an employer's market. Where they have all the power and exploit the desperate.
If the majority of people were wiser and didn't get blinded by propaganda in the primaries... i think our government could not only be functional but more beneficial for society. Voting is a huge power. That's why they spend billions to swindle people into voting for the candidates they fund and push the real candidates out of the race.
It's pretty clear the election process is a sham.
Maybe you're onto it there, Trevor.