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Forum Post: I Have a Question for the "Both Parties Are Bad Cult": On Your Planet, What are Your Perfect Politicians Doing?

Posted 2 years ago on April 17, 2012, 10:51 a.m. EST by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I Have a Question for the "Both Parties Are Bad Cult": On Your Planet, What are Your Perfect Politicians Doing? in the Perfect Congress, in the Perfect Country on Planet Perfection?

Meanwhile, on Earth, in America, we have a dumb and lazy electorate, by design, who have let real scoundrels, known mostly as Republicons, cause real damage that makes everybody look bad and takes forever to fix.

Reality, like democracy, is messy and imperfect. What sort of system of government do you have on planet Perfection??

336 Comments

336 Comments


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[-] 8 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Nice jab! "we have a dumb and lazy electorate" is the most significant thing you said. As long as people believe that being a citizen is voting every two years or four or when things get so bad you just can't stand them, on any planet, this is what you get.

Until you change what you do, you are going to get what we got.

Being a citizen is an every day commitment. As long as you let yourself be fooled because you are too lazy to know how the system works and the facts and who wants to bend it to serve themselves instead of the common good, you can be fooled by a barrage of media designed and bought to make you believe a lie. You are most susceptible when you have already lied to yourself that you are too smart to be fooled.

The system that you can start and forget without the wheels falling off doesn't exist.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I agree 100%. Which is why I always said that Occupy's best move is to get out into the public and educate and recruit. Without the masses, this doesn't go anywhere.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I agree that you need numbers and I suggested some ways to get them. No takers apparently. But it is also key to get a few key individuals. That is the way our revolution got started. Thomas Paine, a very unlikely key person, was one of the most influential. Wrote the text and others spread it far and wide. He probably never knew the impact he had.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Very good point on those key people.

[-] 0 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nice comment - Own the system or be owned by it.

Where does everyone get the idea that you have an election and then forget about the running of the country?

We as a nation as a people need to own our governmental system like we never have before. We need to communicate to our government the things that need to be done as well as how to go about doing them. We need to kick the stuffing out of corporate/private money interest manipulation and get this country healthy and prosperous for All - and then continue on to help the rest of the world to follow suit.

We can never leave the shop tended only by elected officials ever again.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Lesson learned.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well for some of us and a growing number as we go along it is a lesson in progress. But the lesson will not have been learned until we make the needed corrections as a unified voice and then continue.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

All in due time my friend.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We make progress - next weeks Frontline should be an interesting program - I saw a preview and there is going to be some protest coverage and discussion.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

If we are to succeed, we must succeed with the utmost profession.

May there be fruitful discussion.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well yes - I also think we need to get more involved with talking to our government as they seem to have lost their purpose and drive.

Take for instance the secret service shame. That I believe shows systemic illness. Morale is down and it shows. It's like they were saying well it is only a fuck around visit anyway nothing serious look at congress the whole place is going to hell and our government does not seem to care - so what say we get some hookers and just kick back and party, like GSA did on the public dime.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

I wouldn't give none of that a second thought.

The whole thing was probably a set up .. by the elite just to show congress whose balls are in the vice.

Everyone knows it's hard to say no to a free trip to Vegas, or a rommfull of smiling hookers ;-]

I wouldn't be able too !

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Good comment -)

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Now you are just sucking up.

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

now, now -)

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Keep in touch, I like.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Our negligence let the Cons, who have plotted against our American experiment in democracy for the People since before its inception, snatch it up and turned it against us and for the 1% Plutocrats, their current day Kings.

We have a lot of waking up to do and a lot of work. We need to get the Cons and the money out ASAP!

First the Vote! A consistent lesser evil Vote will evolve to really good!!

Don't fall for the Cons con-job: both parties ARE NOT the same.

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

Register and Vote! Register and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

If YOU Don't Vote, YOU Don't Count!!!

NO MORE Woodstock reenactments, cardboard and crayon scribbles, sleeping-bag parking lots.

ONLY Loud and Clear signs, FLAGS, banners and words! Picture perfect and camera ready for America to see on TV!!!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Especially the last two lines. BTW, Plutocrats give Disney a bad name. Micky too.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Pass the word, Flags and Clear Messages.

[-] 7 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Here on our planet, Equanimus, we have a system which does not allow big money to interfere with the selection of presidential candidates. Unlike the United States, on your planet Earth, we would be able to elect a candidate such as Dennis Kucinich.

As a result, we experience continuous progress, scientific and technological development, without your earth bound species of financial parasites sucking the blood out of our economy.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

what's wrong with Dennis Kucinich?

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Nothings wrong with him, I think he's a great politician.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

It shouldn't be too late for "our" politicians to address this outrageous silent scandal in which it appears the big pharma company Merck got away with causing the premature deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans with no personal consequences for the culpable individuals.:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

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[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Exactly. Here we have two opposing parties, not the lame appearance of such. One party is not based on the Harlem Globetrotters and the other on the Washington Nationals -- they truly fight over opposing issues.

In your world the Democraplicans pretend to be bound by the 60 filibuster rule, while the Ratpublicans lived by the simple majority rule. Why is that? In 2000 Bush stole the election, in 2004 Kerry took a dive not contesting the Ohio electoral fraud. Ratpublican electoral fraud is the elephant sitting on the living room couch, but the Dems are afraid to mention it. Why?

In our world the military doesn't run a psyopped fake democracy in the homeland (actually there is no worldwide military empire in our world) just like your military does in the neo-colonial territories (e.g., Iraq and Afghanistan).

Obama has gotten away with more war crimes, more constitution bashing then McCain ever would have. They are running a scam on us.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Looks like a garbled message from plane earth has arrived. I wonder what it means.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Unfortunately, we on Earth have fallen prey to moneyed interests.

They are very sneaky here.

And many of us believe things that are not true, because the money owns the media. On Earth cheating and bribery is against the law, but we have the best legal system MONEY can buy (same with our Health Care system).

We allowed this by negligence and swindle.

At times we take charge and select good people, but the money sabotages them and tells our people that our selection was no good. Then some of our people have minds that are warped by the money. Then they turn against each other, instead of the money!

[-] 4 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Let me guess you think Obama is the answer to all our prayers and is the Obi-Wan Kinobi of presidents? Being anything but means we are insane?

Wow... it's really sad to see liberals utilizing asshole Bill O'Reilly tactics.

How many countries has Obama bombed so far?

Forgive people like me for thinking war is wrong even if you're a democrat.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

NO. Obama was just worlds better than McCain and Mama Grizzly!!

Cons have Obstructed, Filibustered, Sabotaged and even held us hostage to stop anything Obama and the Dems have tried to do and get their 1% way. It's a miracle he got the things he did accomplish done. But there has had to be way too many compromises. He was counting on a Dem congress after the 2010 election (not a Blue Dog and Lieberman Dem Congress) but millions of petulant Dems didn't vote and let the fucking Teabags in Congress instead, making EVERYTHING WORSE!!!

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Our negligence let the Cons (who have plotted against our American experiment in democracy for the People since before its inception) snatch it up and turn our neglected system against us and for the 1% Plutocrats, their current day Kings.

We have a lot of waking up to do and a lot of work, too. We need to get the Cons and the money out ASAP!

First the Vote! A consistent lesser evil Vote will evolve to really good!!

Don't fall for the Cons con-job: both parties ARE NOT the same!

We just let our democracy go to hell.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You really are too dumb to fail.

We have bombed 6 nations in three years. McCain may have bombed even more, but we will never know. You have to assume that if Obama-end the wars-guy is bombing 6, then McCain would be bombing at least that much.

Thats why they ALL have to go, these wars ARE COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

There is no ands/ifs/ about it. The House and Senate will probably stay around 50/50 for many years to come, people just arent interested in doing their own research.

Obama is going to win this election, there is no doubt about it. Might as well be able to look yourself in the face and know you didnt endorse people getting killed.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Wars are an issue but they aren't the only issue. Avoiding Alito's, Scalia's, and Thomas's are worth some serious points. Getting the money out is the best way to deal with all of these but it isn't instant coffee. Slowing the bleeding is better than ignoring it.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

They arent the only issue, true. Bu I put preserving innocent lives at the top of the list.

There is nothing worse than war. I cannot imagine what it must be like to live in a city where bombs dropping are not a major issue. The constant fear.

Besides, as long as we are bombing people like this, there is zero hope for our "elected leaders" of doing anything productive. War, if happening, always comes first. As it should, most of the time. This current nonsense is in its second decade now.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

We are killing 100,000 people a year in hospitals that refuse to use check lists for surgeries. That is just one. You have the right to put whatever you want at the top of the list. Which life is worth more?

Multi tasking. I will take progress (movement in the right direction) on multiple issues in varying degrees while trying to figure how to move the biggest boulders.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Problem is, managing a war while trying to fix hte economy is like trying to manage a business while being in a nasty divorce...you just cant focus.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It certainly would be easier without the wars, and I don't support them and never did. But the government doesn't have just one head, There are the war guys and the economy guys and the health guys. They even put them in separate cabinets. It is easier to multi task in separate heads. I just solved the income inequity problem on another thread, now yours all in one evening.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

You have to wake up. We are not in control. Our negligence has removed our control. GET IT?! We Blew it!! We have to finesse, we have to work with the system we have, and we have to be thankful for small improvements and keep encouraging them. McCain would have invaded Iran and not done one single accomplishment of this administration. And the RW crazies would have found a way to make Palin POTUS. That would be much worse. Obama does not control and did not cause this mess, and he has been made even more ineffective by a traitorous GOP, and a flagrant drum-beat of lies. Why don't you already know this?? But he's worlds better than the alternative and it takes very little to find out why. What are your better alternatives? No one has produced any, just a lot of hate and taking points.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

^loves war

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Go soak UR head and drink some more of UR own bath water!

You work for the RW whether you know it or not!

I'd get a check if I was U, cuz they have ALL the $$.

Good luck with being your town's Bus Stop Anarch!!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-earth-day-celebrate-the-occupy-movement-natio/

[-] 3 points by hoot (313) 2 years ago

you can't stand when anyone disagrees with you, you my friend work for the 1 percent whether you know it it or not. You support an administration who continues to fight for the 1 percent, why do you support this movement if at the same time you support the 1 percent, might you be a troll for the 1%???

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Oh, recrimination, "I know you are, but what am I?"

You RepubliCons are soooo pathetic!

[-] 2 points by hoot (313) 2 years ago

im not a republican.... So you can call me a troll because i don't agree with you, and the second i suggest that by your own logic you are a troll, you get upset.

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[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Too bad you don't have a bus you could put your slogans on. That would really help people to ignore the fighters against corruption greed crime. Do you do this on commission for WallStreet? How exactly does that work?

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

BS!

Troll!

[-] 3 points by hoot (313) 2 years ago

your just a passive aggressive meathead that won't accept anything outside of your own perception

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

No, just RepubliCon Trolls!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6479) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago
[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

On our planet, we have a special product, I don't know what you would call it, perhaps something like "insecticide" that we apply to our monied interests to keep them from infesting our political system. Perhaps we could open a trading post on your Earth to provide you with our miraculous product, at a reasonable price...

[-] 0 points by Reneye (118) 2 years ago

Lol !!!

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I'll help!!

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Our negligence let the Cons (who have plotted against our American experiment in democracy for the People since before its inception) snatch it up and turn it against us and for the 1% Plutocrats, their current day Kings. Now we need your spray. We've allowed a system to develop where if you don't appease the money men you have no chance. Thus making Dems look bad due to our negligence.

We have a lot of waking up to do and a lot of work. We need to get the Cons and the money out ASAP!

First the Vote! A consistent lesser evil Vote will evolve to really good!!

Don't fall for the Cons con-job: both parties ARE NOT the same.

[-] 2 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Serially picking the "lesser of 2 evils" is does not lead to "really good". Neither choice next time will necessarily be less "evil". The next "lesser evil" could easily be more "evil".

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

More Cons will be pure evil. We'll end democracy and they'll bring back their preferred Kings.

[-] 0 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Come on guys. People are dominated by belief systems. Neither are inherently evil - they're just doing what they know and understand. It's the ideology that needs to change. The ideology of a nation is the ideology the people hold and, yes, we do live by our choices. Democracy is not a government function - we already live in a Democracy by the choices and decisions we each make every day. That's Real Democracy. Even though it might not look like it to you - the people are in charge. Where the people go the "leaders" will follow. If you want to make real change start doing it where you are right now and simplify your lives by supporting your local community. Shop local. Consume less. Become more sustainable. Use less energy. There are other ways to force the system to change than elections which only allow a small group of individuals to make decisions for others based on THEIR viewpoints. How can any group of individuals expect to satisfy everyone. They can't because they aren't YOU. Your choices and everyone elses are what create change. If we continue to look to Washington to create change we'll get change based on their perspective. As we start looking and acting locally, where there are people that we can actually look in their eyes and speak to face to face, that's the change we will reap as a nation. The "leaders" will follow as they will have no choice - after all the ideology of a nation is the ideology that the majority of people (Democracy) hold -)

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Explained perfectly. Good comments.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Jeez what a steaming load of shit served on organic brown rice.

Maybe Randi can help you: http://www.randirhodes.com/main.html

Occupy Earth Day and Get Out the Vote!!

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Very true. And the voters on both sides are being played like fiddles.

[-] 0 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

They're learning what's important -)

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Dildo in your case.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Perhaps a better alternative to a lesser evil would be the passage of legislation promoting the immediate impeachment of any president, democrat or republican, who engages in acts such as undeclared wars:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.CON.RES.107:

If Obama, for example, were impeached, we would currently end up with Biden, who is a better choice than Obama or any of the Republican candidates.

Impeachment should also be required for any president who refuses to take the necessary actions, such as passage of Glass Steagall, to restore our economy to a functioning level, on the basis of insanity.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Let's bring back the French Revolution on the Bush-Cheney Administration first. Greater Evil.

Meanwhile, let's avoid the Con tactics to discourage and suppress Votes, and work on clawing back the democracy we neglected!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Before you start advocating "Off with their heads!" try to remember that the blades of the guillotines of the French Revolution were eventually turned back upon the executioners themselves.

I agree that the vote is important, but we need to take a smarter approach when our enemy controls both candidates.

We US citizens have to take control of our government in a more immediate way to prevent imminent catastrophes such as war or complete economic collapse.

[-] -1 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

If not voting for Goldman Sachs, war and twin-party way of life... then what?

A popular, democratic vote to force Congress to call an Article V Convention?

Why?

Because, simply put, corrupt twin-party politics as usual is destroying our nation and democratic values… and has been for some time. Elite, corporate and government conduct is become so egregious people are taking notice and asking the right questions. But fact is, there is no direct, democratic means for us, we the people, to challenge our own government when it becomes corrupt, despotic and tyrannical.

We ought try to change that, Constitutionally. In the 2012 elections. By presenting American voters a stark choice... either support the status-quo or oppose it. With sufficient votes, our "NO CONSENT" opposition can force Congress to issue an Article V Convention call, thereby invoking Constitutional means to propose amendments to effect changes we all agree necessary -- the Separation of Wealth and State -- removal of all elite and corporate money from both electoral and representative political process.

Our founders did too good a job containing “mobocracy” (which they defined as an excess of democracy) and protecting the elite. And while I am fine with private ownership, even great wealth, we must draw the line at great wealth corrupting our democracy and government, bullying the world and buying favors at our expense...

… and there is NO democratic alternative to the elite's "heads I win, tails you lose" twin-party political game?

I don't think so...

It's our Constitution, our government and our vote. It's our decision.

A Convention will not runaway from us, we wield our votes, but is capable of ripping control away from the elite, their corporations and politicians.

Many argue the right and left have been trying to call an Article V Convention for years. I think not. By all credible accounts, more than enough state petitions were tendered for Congress to call a Convention long ago. In fact, it is un-Constitutional for Congress to refuse to call one...

Tell every sitting Representative and Senator: This is our petition for redress of our grievances; either call a Convention now, before the elections, or we will withdraw our consent to be governed in your election and force the issue... Would any candidate be seen as a legitimate Representative, Senator or President if a plurality of us opposed them by voting NO CONSENT in their election?

Voting to withdraw our consent to be governed is a Constitutional crisis for the elite...

Just because it is a peaceful revolution does not make it any less a power struggle. Nor any less effective. OWS emphasizes its process. Our process, voting, is every American's Constitutional heritage and democratic obligation -- if we want politics to be more fair and democratic, we must make it so.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Agreed to a point.

There is NO way to "take control of our government in a more immediate way" NONE at this time.

The only thing we can do is to keep the Cons from taking over, and give more support to the Dems. We can run ourselves. The Dems are not our enemy, the system that we neglected and has been corrupted makes Dems get dirty, or contaminated, and they look like an enemy. The Cons hate democracy and The People, they are all out for their 1% Plutocratic Kings, just like they have always been since the King of England. They are the enemy. You have to focus and see what is plainly laid out in front of us. Discern. Recognize. Avoid the con-job that they are both the same. That's what the Cons want you to think.

There is also a class war, waged against us by their 1% via the Cons. But we fight each other. Recognize the enemy. Look up.

No more Cons! Get the money out! Get good democrats who serve us in. Never EVER Neglect our democracy again!!!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

By "take control of our government" I mean that ALL citizens need to participate in the process of contacting their representatives and demanding that what is right be done immediately. This needs to be done in an overwhelming way that cannot be stopped.

I think as time goes by, the sense of "immediacy" will become the primary aspect of society, as our currency breaks down and food shortages become universal. People will have to make demands of their government, or they will die.

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

And how you going to get others to contact their representatives? Isn't the only control you really have is control over your own actions? Put it into perspective - would you trust me to make decisions for your Life? Of course not - you don't know me from Jack shit. The only one who can really make decisions for you is you. Understanding that how can you expect a group of individuals in Washington (Cons or Dems) to make decisions that will satisfy everyone? You know the answer to that.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I think as basic resources, such as food, become increasingly scarce people will start contacting their representatives of their own accord. Its like a force of nature, if people are hungry, they will demand food, jobs, etc.

Its like the phenomenon of OWS protests being raised to a more desperate level. Effective leaders will be needed to help these people act in a politically effective manner.

You can see it in the European countries where protestors are becoming more desperate as they start to loose the basic amenities of life.

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Or better yet they will start growing their own food and turn to their local economy as they begin to learn that money spent locally stays in the local economy which will in turn create more local jobs. People are also beginning to understand that they are the ones who really run the factories and as big business goes belly up the working locals will seek more and more to keep the factories open with themselves as the owners. When businesses are owned locally by those who work there the business won't just get up and leave the community leaving who know how many laid off. Cooperatives are actually very "middle class" as they have no upper management or stockholders to share profits with - it all goes into the workers pockets -)

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I agree with the part about keeping production local. People growing their own food is good too, my bother's family does a lot of it and get to eat a lot of nice fresh vegetables, but I think the real efficiency in agriculture would return with reestablishment of family farms.

Cooperative sound like a good idea, do you have examples of cooperatives that are up and running?

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

LA, my home town, say hi.

We blew it, where have you been?

Now we have to reel in our democratic whale with 5 LB test.

First, we have to get rid of the Cons (suicide bombers)! Then the money (shackles)!

Occupy Earth Day and Get Out the VOTE!

[-] 4 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

There is no such things as perfection that is why parties are both bad. But really both parties just need to be cleaned. I do sense a separation in both parties that will happen in the near future. Honestly i still think both parties are bad and will continue to think that until a third party wins a major office.

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Read 1984.

We are there. Only we have Big Private-Sector Brother.

Our system is dirty by design to make it discouraging to a floundering proletariat class, 99%, electorate. Where does that get better reinventing the wheel, when Cons are fighting to get the keys back? THINK.

No more keys for these GOPs!!

[-] 4 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

i do think and i do what i want

also i have read 1984 many times

But it is ignorant to think only one party has cause this destruction. We caused it you and me. We caused everything to happen our tiny hands push the ball into action.

voting isn't a game this shouldn't be about winning loosing like its a hockey game. This is life every vote should matter not because of what party they are in but what values they have established. That is how i vote and for every will be.

[-] 4 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Absolutely! Thank you.

Check the voting records. Who set the banks free in the 90's? Both parties. Who voted for going to war in the ME? Both parties.

Jiffy, you are way out in left field (no pun intended). In order to make this country work, everyone, both sides have to get involved. You can't marginalize people because they don't agree with you.

[-] 2 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

I seen that. hats why i hate all this bullshit propaganda putting the blame on one side. I am just trying to bring awareness that things need to change even the parties

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Overlap is not the same as monolithic uniformity. Broad generalizations do not advance progress. Only one party is trying to maintain tax breaks (and increase them) to the wealthy. Only one is trying to privatize all public education, and all social services. Only one is waging all-out war on women, Only one is advocating discrimination of GLBTs, only one is trashing affirmative action, only one decided Citizens United, only one has made invasive strip searches legal for ALL offenses, including parking tickets or jaywalking. Yes, too much has been compromised, too much has been done by mutual agreement that has been wrong, but to say both are the same by SELECTIVELY looking at either voting records or court decisions is distorting reality.

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Uh... What he said!

And I suspect this "inability" to see this obvious difference is deliberate.

[-] 3 points by dan1984 (108) from Cumberland, MD 2 years ago

I think we are more like "Brave New World" than "1984." Everyone would rather be distracted than face reality. But the similarities between our society and both novels are extremely prevalent and disconcerting. I don't only blame the GOP though. Bill Clinton did some devastating things to our economy. Namely NAFTA and the giving of social security to people who had not paid into it. We all like to forget that he was bombing Serbia and Kosovo while everyone was distracted by the Monica Lewinsky movie.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Yes, lots of blame to go around.

Our negligence is tops in my book. Democracy is not a spectator sport and we allowed the Cons, who have been plotting against our democracy experiment since its inception, to turn it against us to serve the 1% Plutocrats. We have waking up to do and lots of work!

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

I did not know there was two parties. I only see one. When did it become a Cult to understand that horse shit is horse shit no matter how you try to dress it up.My planet is Earth the same as yours and everyone else.Politicians are people therfore perfection is impossible.Any more dumb ass questions?

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Try the WWW.

Occupy Earth Day and Get Out the VOTE!!

[-] 2 points by thenewgreen (170) 2 years ago

I like that the people that don't subscribe to a party are the ones in a "cult".

Both parties are essentially the same with minor variances. You may think there is a huge gulf of thought, but there isn't:

Quote "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum". -- Noam Chomsky

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

2010 about 20 million '08 Obama supporters pouted instead of voted because Obama didn't reverse 30+ years of RW Shock Doctrine and entrenched corruption in less than one half of his first term. Allowing Tea Bagging crazies and Koch Bros pols like Scott Walker to take offices.

Now it's even worse! That was really fucking stupid!!

Don't be fooled again!!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

Register and Vote! Register and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

Get out the VOTE!!

[-] 1 points by thenewgreen (170) 2 years ago

I voted for Obama in '08 and voted in 2010. I actually canvassed for him in 08 in Ohio just prior to his winning. Tell me, when will gitmo close, when are bot wars going to end, how are those Bush tax cuts doing, where's the increase in science funding, how's NASA looking? His presidency has been horrible if you are interested in the progressive agenda. I may vote for him this time but he will not get a dime or any sweat.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

When will lollipops grow out of my ass?

It's a miracle he's done so well under the blatant and unprecedented sabotage by Cons taking place right in front of our electoral faces! Why aren't you blaming them?? They caused it and are doing everything in their power to perpetuate it. If Obama got a real Dem Congress, like FDR had, he'd have been able to make many more great reforms. Shoot the enemy! Would ya!

[-] 1 points by thenewgreen (170) 2 years ago

He had a majority his first two years and pissed it away by being a populist and not a leader imo. I DO blame the enemy, if I didn't I wouldn't be voting at all for Obama. Lesser of two evils for me at this point.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Liebermans and Blue Dogs did not make a majority.

You are parroting RW talking points. Listen to Thom Hartman, Randi Rhodes, Ed Schultz, Norman Goldman. All available on line.

Since the notion of perfection is a myth, ALL CHOICES are of lesser or greater evils.

[-] -2 points by charlz (4) 2 years ago

The vote will out in force, to vote obama the fascist ( and his non elected fascist czars)out of office.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

BS Troll!

[-] -2 points by charlz (4) 2 years ago

LOL, you're the troll, jiffysquish. trolling for the dems/libs/ows.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Con Troll!

[-] -1 points by charlz (4) 2 years ago

what ever you say jiffylube.

[+] -7 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Get Out the Vote this November 6th!!!!

Don't let the 1% buy another Citizens Unite election and more Cons in the Supreme Court!!

Register and VOTE!!! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Dennis Kucinich created a bill for real universal healthcare, free education, and taking back the power from the banks....

Alan Grayson grilled the fed and the banks during the bail outs.

Better politicians exist. A lot of you guys just follow the politician getting the most money.

Strange how the candidates with the most money pretty much always get the nominee or win the seat. It's almost like we need to get money out of politics so these fake democrats can't keep taking seats from true liberals that want to work for the people instead of the 1% and war.

What's Obama doing? Still bombing more countries than Bush? Making more WMD talk about Iran... reminiscent of Bush and Clinton talking about the WMD's in Iraq?

What's Pelosi doing? Is she changing her mind about going to war in Iraq again?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

is campaign finance why politicians get elected?

As of May 18, 2012, 545 groups organized as Super PACs have reported total receipts of $204,716,872 and total independent expenditures of $111,588,684 in the 2012 cycle.

the US budget is about 3.7 trillion dollars

so

205e+6 / 3.7e+12 = 5.54054054 × 10-5

Super PACs will spend about .0055% of the budget to get their hands of the government pie

that's insignificant money by comparison


further

I would suggest that publicity has more to do with news station coverage than campaign spending

one might argue that those well financed usually win but the campaign may be well financed due to news publicity

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

The candidate with the most money is how the news chooses a lot of times.

The big newspaper here in my city hosts debates and refused to invite someone running for congress because he didn't have as much money as everyone else. They even cropped him out of photos.

And yes the corporate media serves private interests too and obviously backs candidates.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I'm not sure

sort of a chicken and egg situation

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

DK, AG and Bernie Sanders are good Dems, but the rest of your rhetoric are straight up RepubliCon talking points!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

FYI

Bernie Sanders = Independent.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I stand corrected!

Although he is technically an Indy, I believe he is a Socialist, but he caucuses with the Dems.

We need to de-slime Socialism! Big Biz loves it.

We have neglected our political system and money has taken over. Even good politicians need to play the money game if they want any chance to succeed at all. More imperfection. But the idea that both parties are the same is a RepubliCon-MSM-1% tactic to suppress the vote like they did in 2010, which got us all those crazy Tea Baggers and Koch Bros pols like Scott Walker!!

Don't be fooled again!!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

Register and Vote! Register and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

Get out the VOTE!!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This Country was founded on a mixture of ideals Thomas Jefferson was a recognized anarchist.

Read my post and see what you think of it.

Start off with a definition of socialism then read my post and consider.

Definition of SOCIALISM

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

http://occupywallst.org/forum/democracy-true-democracy-is-a-well-ordered-anarchy/

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I like. But Socialism has been slimed.

[-] -2 points by charlz (4) 2 years ago

socialism does not work. it deserves to be " slimed".

[+] -7 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Big Biz and the 1% would beg to differ with your Drudge talking-point ass!! Without Socialism they would have to pay for their losses, infrastructure/commons, and the welfare for their slave wage employees!!!

Ask Wall Street, Socialism (with Vulture & Casino Capitalism) works real good for them!!! Greatest concentration of wealth in the fewest hands in over a century.

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[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Correct the definition. Find and post the good qualities.

Anarchy/Anarchism/Anarchist have been slimmed too.

Hell it was at the very founding of our country. People have absolutely no idea of how our constitution came to be.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

However right you may be, redefining troubled political beliefs can be addressed with regard to our education system after the election. Right now it is a much unneeded distraction and repellant to public approval.

Get Out the Vote!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well in the case of anarchy anarchist anarchism.

I will disagree as this was a very large part of the creation of our country and the principals of our government and it is being slandered misrepresented to the people.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Unpopular in American democracy 2012 is only good when there is intrinsic goodness and/or success in it's values. No such easily identifiable value exists in anarchism. It's the turd in the punch bowl! Quit playing with it in front of the guests.

Get Out the Vote!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So I take it you didn't read the definitions?

You didn't see the connections?

You would rather let a lie exist than to remove the mask?

This is all recorded history. This is all being attacked by the corrupt.

You see no value in refuting the BS?

Pulling the mask off of corruption and it's manipulations?

Then I am afraid you are not fighting with good strategy.

IMO.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Time and place. Think about it.

The strategy is popularity and only popularity.

Is this your first election?

Where was your anarchy crusade ten years ago?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Working twelve to sixteen hours a day up to seven days a week in a machine shop on my feet the whole time running a machine spitting out a thousand parts an hour. Had it real soft though - two 10 minute coffee breaks and a 20 minute lunch.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Sounds like the same kind of hell I endured, just a different flavor.

Think about your kids (or someone else's) and more Cons in the Supreme Court. They will bring back debtor's prison!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Debtors prison has returned there is a post on it.

BTW - I found a nicer definition of socialism for you. It's not great but better.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search This article is about socialism as an economic system and political philosophy. For socialism as a stage of economic development Marxist theory, see Socialism (Marxism). Page move-protected Part of a series on Socialism Red flag waving.svg Development[show] Ideas[show] Variants[show] People[show] Organizations[show]

Red flag waving.svg Socialism portal Politics portal

v
t
e

Socialism play /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership and/or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.[2] There are many variations of socialism and as such there is no single definition encapsulating all of socialism.[3] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organised within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[4]

A socialist economic system would consist of an organisation of production to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs, so that goods and services would be produced directly for use instead of for private profit driven by the accumulation of capital, and accounting would be based on physical quantities, a common physical magnitude, or a direct measure of labour-time.[5][6] Distribution of output would be based on the principle of individual contribution.

As a political movement, socialism includes a diverse array of political philosophies, ranging from reformism to revolutionary socialism. Proponents of state socialism advocate for the nationalisation of the means of production, distribution and exchange as a strategy for implementing socialism. Libertarian socialism proposes to direct worker's control of the means of production and opposes the use of state power to achieve such an arrangement, opposing both parliamentary politics and state ownership over the means of production.[citation needed] Conversely, democratic socialism seeks to propagate the ideals of socialism within the context of a democratic system.

Modern socialism originated from an 18th-century intellectual and working class political movement that criticised the effects of industrialisation and private property on society. In the early 19th-century, "socialism" referred to any concern for the social problems of capitalism regardless of the solution. However, by the late 19th-century, "socialism" had come to signify opposition to capitalism and advocacy for an alternative system based on some form of social ownership.[7] Utopian socialists such as Robert Owen (1771–1858) tried to found self-sustaining communes by secession from a capitalist society. Socialists inspired by the Soviet model of economic development, such as Marxist-Leninists, have advocated the creation of centrally planned economies directed by a single-party state that owns the means of production. Yugoslavian, Hungarian, East German and Chinese communist governments have instituted various forms of market socialism, combining co-operative and state ownership models with the free market exchange and free price system (but not free prices for the means of production)

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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Wow you are like a nasty gram. Where are my black flowers?

Do you Sing and Dance?

Don't you think it might be easier for folks to ignore me if you weren't advertizing for me?

You have this fan club thing kind of twisted though.

Were you ever dropped on your head?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by Lockean (671) from New York, NY 2 years ago

False equivalency is the prevailing form of intellectual laziness of our time, dominating what passes for journalism, and permeating popular thinking.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

And completely by design. Strawman, Red herring, just plain lies, pettifogging, and recrimination, staples in the RepubliCon playbook since they coined "I know you are, but what am I?" in Kindergarten. The end justifies any means with them.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

How many countries has Obama bombed since he took office?

So war is only bad when a republican does it? But it's all good when Obama does it?

Did both parties pass the Republican JOBS Act? The bill that doesn't create a single job and takes away regulations put in place after ENRON.

Banks got bailed out we got sold out! Remember that? Yeah that shit all happened by the democrats and republicans.

This is OWS. Both parties work for the 1%

You and Factsrfun should go to an Obama 2012 blog. You guys are trying to alienate liberals because they don't support Obama because of the wars and his ties to Monsanto and Goldman Sachs.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Our negligence let the Cons, who have plotted against our American experiment in democracy for the People since before its inception, snatch it up and turn it against us and for the 1% Plutocrats, their current day Kings.

We have a lot of waking up to do and a lot of work. We need to get the Cons and the money out ASAP!

First the Vote! A consistent lesser evil Vote will evolve to really good!!

Don't fall for the Cons con-job: both parties ARE NOT the same.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Both parties are not identical. But they work for the same people. The 1%.

[-] 0 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

Agreed.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

NO. But the GOP would like Voters to think that.

At some point I have to think that the mistake you make is deliberate. It's very easy to get the info to correct your misconception.

The blatant and flagrant sabotage by Republicons against this Black moderate Dem POTUS and mostly moderate Dems in Congress escapes you?? How can that be??

Our neglect has allowed our democracy to be sold to the highest bidder. Cons are cool with that because they fundamentally believe that only a privileged elite should partake in government and that's who they should serve. In order to compete, Dems have to money grub, too. OR they have NO HOPE of serving The People. And this also escapes you??

You seem intelligent, so it has to be deliberate. But if you R seeking perfection, you'll never find it, it doesn't exist.

Maybe this will help: http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-earth-day-celebrate-the-occupy-movement-natio/

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I'll reply with this again

Go to an Obama blog if you want to peddle your Obama 2012 support. This is OWS and we know both parties work for the 1% and war. How many countries has Obama bombed since he took office? The number is higher than Bush. Think about the past 3 years when you're telling people to think about history.

Say not to warmonger presidents that work for corporatism. Say no to Obama and the GOP

Do you like that Michael Taylor from Monsanto was appointed to the FDA by Obama himself? His administration if filled with Goldman Sachs as well. CORPORATISM

Wall Street's takeover of the Obama administration is now complete. "The mega-banks and their corporate allies control every economic policy position of consequence. Mr. Obama has moved rapidly since the November debacle to install business people where it counts most. Mr.William Daley from JP Morgan Chase as White House Chief of Staff. Mr. Gene Sperling from the Goldman Sachs payroll to be director of the National Economic Council. Eileen Rominger from Goldman Sachs named director of the SEC's Investment Management division. Even the National Security Advisor, Thomas Donilon, was executive vice president for law and policy at the disgraced Fannie Mae after serving as a corporate lobbyist with O'Melveny & Roberts. General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt served as chair of the president's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.

But hey, you hate republicans so much you're willing to let everything this democrat does wrong slide and you actually continually praise him like he can't do anything wrong. Good for you. You're falling for the 1%'s trap. DIVIDE AND CONQUER

Our neglect to the truth that both parties work for the 1% is why democracy is failing.

Surely there are great democrats, like Kucinich and Grayson, but Obama is not on that list. He is a corporate whore who comes from the most corrupt state when it comes to politicians.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

TrevoR TrevorMnemonicTROLL!!!!!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

that kind of response means you have no argument and only shows what kind of person you are.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

It shows that U R a Troll. Maybe just an unwitting Troll.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Both parties are a part of the broken ass system that is all corprate and non-democratic.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

People are bad, too. Some much worse than others. Hitler was much worse than Gandhi.

Our political parties and system are not broken at all, they are fixed. We neglected them and the Cons, who have hated the American experiment since it's inception, picked it up and stacked the deck against democracy and for plutocracy. Because of this, you need money to participate and succeed. It's our neglect that caused this, our participation can repair it. But Cons work for the 1% Plutocrats and Dems work for the 99% People. But they both need money to succeed. We need to support the Dems and get the money out of our neglected democracy. Cons want you to think both parties are the same. Don't fall for it!! Open your eyes! Read!

http://www.alternet.org/story/155011/murder%2C_suicide_and_financial_ruin%3A_how_the_class_war_is_destroying_americans%27_lives?page=entire

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Socializing land across the board effectively takes the ability of one to take advantage of another off the table. When each and every single person has free and equal access to Land, personal responsibility and choice flourish. There are simple ways to do this. Henry George was going in the right direction - http://schalkenbach.org/henry-george/who-was-henry-george/

Although he advocated that the Land Rent be used to fund infrastructure, I feel that it is best to return 100% of the Land Rent back to each man, woman and child equally in the form of a yearly Land Dividend. This effectively makes the yearly rent on the average piece of Land exactly equal to the yearly Land Dividend. This creates a situation where Land is both held in common as well as held privately. I can elaborate further if any of you are interested.

[-] 2 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

On my planet, the 'perfect' politicians are not perfect, but they are doing what the PEOPLE want. Not what they want. Not what their friends and campaign financiers want.

My perfect politicians are not allowed to accept money or valuable gifts of any nature from any member of the population under any circumstances. This will include a period of 5 years after leaving office where they are prohibited from accepting such gifts.

They are excluded from investing in or being employed by firms which have any kind of relation to their post in government. Another 5 year period after leaving applies for this.

They cannot award themselves powers outside the constitution without a complete referendum of the population.

They cannot commit troops or national resources to war or the support of an ally without a complete public referendum. Only in the event of a direct and unprovoked attack on our nations soil (or our allies) by perpetrators who are verified to be acting in concert with another government will they have the power to send our men and materials to war without a referendum.

Aid to foreign countries/people will only consist of necessities such as food, medicine or other disaster relief/reconstruction equipment or personnel. No arms or monies will be exported as 'aid' and no armed revolutions will be 'supported' using national resources or assets. If someone wants our weapons, they better pay a fair price for them up front.

They are subservient to the people. Not the other way around.

Its not perfect. But its a democracy. That is where we should start.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Very noble and commendable.

Like I've said, perfection only exists in lies and delusions.

Politicians and a political system that serve We The People (99%), democracy the American way is what we want.

But democracy is not a spectator sport. We The People have largely turned our backs and Cons, who have been against our democracy since its inception, have snapped it up and turned it against us in service to the 1% Plutocrat Kings. Under this neglected state, everyone has to appease the money men. We have to get back in the game. The last thing we need is more Cons in our government.

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

[-] 2 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Indeed, but the fact is that nothing that Obama has done in his term leads me to believe that he offers any real change or hope.

I believe in having a viable third party... or fourth... or fifth... having only 2 viable choices is not a real democracy... the lesser evil is still much too evil for my liking...

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

OH REALLY! Nothing?

You make lesser-evil choices all the time.

Not going to do your WWW surfing anymore.

The Incomplete Greatness of Barack Obama

He’s gotten more done in three years than any president in decades. Too bad the American public still thinks he hasn’t accomplished anything.

(Also check out the main article, The Incomplete Greatness of Barack Obama, and the issue’s Editor’s Note.)

  1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems.

  2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs.

  3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide “living wills” to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers’ money for their own profit, and creates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (now headed by Richard Cordray) to crack down on abusive lending products and companies.

  4. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.

  5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year.

  6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered.

  7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: In 2009, injected $62 billion in federal money (on top of $13.4 billion in loans from the Bush administration) into ailing GM and Chrysler in return for equity stakes and agreements for massive restructuring. Since bottoming out in 2009, the auto industry has added more than 100,000 jobs. In 2011, the Big Three automakers all gained market share for the first time in two decades. The government expects to lose $16 billion of its investment, less if the price of the GM stock it still owns increases.

  8. Recapitalized Banks: In the midst of financial crisis, approved controversial Treasury Department plan to lure private capital into the country’s largest banks via “stress tests” of their balance sheets and a public-private fund to buy their “toxic” assets. Got banks back on their feet at essentially zero cost to the government.

  9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Ended 1990s-era restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.

  10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: In March 2011, joined a coalition of European and Arab governments in military action, including air power and naval blockade, against Gaddafi regime to defend Libyan civilians and support rebel troops. Gaddafi’s forty-two-year rule ended when the dictator was overthrown and killed by rebels on October 20, 2011. No American lives were lost.

  11. Told Mubarak to Go: On February 1, 2011, publicly called on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to accept reform or step down, thus weakening the dictator’s position and putting America on the right side of the Arab Spring. Mubarak ended thirty-year rule when overthrown on February 11.

  12. Reversed Bush Torture Policies: Two days after taking office, nullified Bush-era rulings that had allowed detainees in U.S. custody to undergo certain “enhanced” interrogation techniques considered inhumane under the Geneva Conventions. Also released the secret Bush legal rulings supporting the use of these techniques.

  13. Improved America’s Image Abroad: With new policies, diplomacy, and rhetoric, reversed a sharp decline in world opinion toward the U.S. (and the corresponding loss of “soft power”) during the Bush years. From 2008 to 2011, favorable opinion toward the United States rose in ten of fifteen countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, with an average increase of 26 percent.

  14. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Spending: As part of the 2010 health care reform bill, signed measure ending the wasteful decades-old practice of subsidizing banks to provide college loans. Starting July 2010 all students began getting their federal student loans directly from the federal government. Treasury will save $67 billion over ten years, $36 billion of which will go to expanding Pell Grants to lower-income students.

  15. Created Race to the Top: With funds from stimulus, started $4.35 billion program of competitive grants to encourage and reward states for education reform.

  16. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards: Released new fuel efficiency standards in 2011 that will nearly double the fuel economy for cars and trucks by 2025.

  17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis: To keep world economy out of recession in 2009 and 2010, helped secure from G-20 nations more than $500 billion for the IMF to provide lines of credit and other support to emerging market countries, which kept them liquid and avoided crises with their currencies.

  18. Passed Mini Stimuli: To help families hurt by the recession and spur the economy as stimulus spending declined, signed series of measures (July 22, 2010; December 17, 2010; December 23, 2011) to extend unemployment insurance and cut payroll taxes.

  19. Began Asia “Pivot”: In 2011, reoriented American military and diplomatic priorities and focus from the Middle East and Europe to the Asian-Pacific region. Executed multipronged strategy of positively engaging China while reasserting U.S. leadership in the region by increasing American military presence and crafting new commercial, diplomatic, and military alliances with neighboring countries made uncomfortable by recent Chinese behavior.

  20. Increased Support for Veterans: With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, increased 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. Also signed new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.

  21. Tightened Sanctions on Iran: In effort to deter Iran’s nuclear program, signed Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act (2010) to punish firms and individuals who aid Iran’s petroleum sector. In late 2011 and early 2012, coordinated with other major Western powers to impose sanctions aimed at Iran’s banks and with Japan, South Korea, and China to shift their oil purchases away from Iran. CONTINUED: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/obamas_top_50_accomplishments035755.php

[-] 0 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

Gee, sure look like D talking points to me.

[+] -7 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I'll take Dem talking points over Con talking points anytime.

By the way, the only reason you mistakenly think they are comparable is that the 1% owners of MSM, Fox Lies and RW Hate & Lie Radio want you to.

[-] 0 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

Sorry don't watch television. In fact, am on vacation and have access to TV for the first time in a long while. Looks more like propaganda every time I see it.

Point is JIFFY, your only option seems to be electing Ds, notwithstanding the fact that the two party system serves the elite. The Constitution is silent on the subject of political parties. The twin-parties are an elite construct for dominating access to our ballot.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

That is RW propaganda.

[-] 0 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

Oh come on JIFFY, surely you an do better than that. Enlighten us morons.

[-] 0 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago
  1. Health care reform which forces all Americans to buy private insurance products? Great time to be in the insurance business... oh wait... who are those guys again?

  2. Stimulus which still has no helped the common man. Instead of giving the banks that money right off the bat he should have used it to absorb bad loans of the people. banks kept a good chunk of change for themselves with only scraps offered as mortgage readjustments.

  3. Dodd Frank is an improvement... but Glass Steagall was the gold standard... and Dodd Frank is woefully short...

  4. The >9000 "private military contractors" still in Iraq paid for with taxpayer dollars and the dead Iraqis would tend to disagree.

  5. Pentagon projects that they will maintain a presence in Afghanistan... and hold 3 major military installations in Kandahar, Bagram and Shindand airbases.

  6. Good job on that.

  7. Taxpayers getting shorted 16 billion? Which is $45k for >350k people for 1 year.

  8. Good job on that.

  9. Good job on that.

  10. Mummar Gadhafi was not doing anything our allies and the dictators we supported in the past and present (including Gadhafi) were not or are not doing anyway. What about Bahrain? Saudi Arabia? Heck... what about Israel?

  11. Mubarak was on his way out. Obamas telling him made no difference. It just made him look good.

  12. Rendition and torture are still going on strong in case you have not heard.

  13. Depends on which countries you survey I suppose. Problem is when you bomb a people... they will hate you... even if you claim to be doing it for their own good... every country we have 'helped' hates us. The ones who like us are the ones we don't touch.

  14. Good job on kicking the banks out... problem is that its nearly impossible to declare bankruptcy on student loans thanks to new laws...

  15. Good job on that.

  16. Good job... but it would have happened anyway. People would have told US automakers to go fuck themselves (as they did) when their cars could not keep up with Asian designs.

  17. IMF is an institute which only seeks to acquire the assets of struggling countries for private interests at rock bottom prices riding on the excuse of 'bailouts'

  18. Good job.

  19. We kinda ran out of enemies in the middle east.

  20. Good job. But he needs to stop creating so many more veterans.

  21. For what exactly? Did absolutely nothing to help US interests in any way. Caused gas prices to spike.

Now that we have that out of the way... I could enumerate all the civil liberties he has gunned down... but it would take too much time which I dont have right now....

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

You just can't stand it when government tries work for The People, can you?!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-earth-day-celebrate-the-occupy-movement-natio/

[-] 0 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

No. I cant stand it when they pretend to work for the people.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

We'd see a lot more service if we had a lot less sabotage by democracy-hating Republicons.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

See.. that is the problem... because there are only two parties... it is easy for one to sabotage the other...

A third party... or a fourth... preferably ones which represent the people rather than corporations... forming coalitions with the presidents party would tip the scales and let good work be carried out...

Also... both parties have passed many of the civil liberty destroying bills in almost unanimity...

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Saying "preferably ones which represent the people rather than corporations" is really becoming cliche and is even parroted by the Right in their usual hypocrite co-opt. Unless you are an overt corporatist which "We are the 1%" proudly espouses.

Compromises (Boner won't even say the word) can look good or bad, there are many circumstantials.

Instant runoff elections could allow more parties and avoid the spoiler (Nader) effect. But I've heard it causes other probs. Could you find out and let us know??

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

The democratic party is so corrupt, about the only thing they can follow threw on is food stamps! I voted for Clinton and have never stopped regretting it. The democrats have sold us out in mass. If they loose enough votes it could bring about party reform if it plans to continue as a viable party for the people. Don't hold your breath.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Overlap is not the same as monolithic uniformity. Broad generalizations do not advance progress. Only one party is trying to maintain tax breaks (and increase them) to the wealthy. Only one is trying to privatize all public education, and all social services. Only one is waging all-out war on women, Only one is advocating discrimination of GLBTs, only one is trashing affirmative action, only one decided Citizens United, only one has made invasive strip searches legal for ALL offenses, including parking tickets or jaywalking. Yes, too much has been compromised, too much has been done by mutual agreement that has been wrong, but to say both are the same by SELECTIVELY looking at either voting records or court decisions is distorting reality.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

THANK YOU! I read your other comment and it was just name calling. You spoke quite eloquently here. I still want to force the democratic party to get it together, they are selling out on far too many points. They won't do better unless that's what it takes to get elected. One more vote is one more vote for business as usual. I don't want to do that for them, I really don't.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I agree with your sentiment, but condemn your strategy. Not voting for one is the same as voting for the other. The right wing WILL NOT split their vote, and if we do it, it only gives each and every one of theirs more power.

And the issue goes far beyond legislation, which can be revisited with each successive congress. The real issue of far more permanent and far reaching consequence is the makeup of the federal courts and the Supreme Court. Every retiring federal judge will be replaced over the next four years by whoever is in the White House. Right now the federal bench is composed of 55% self-defined Republicans. That reflects the relative number of years the two parties have held the White House. They make most of the decisions about corporations, anti-trust enforcement, unionization, civil rights and worker's rights. The Supreme Court, as you well know, is divided 5/4 right down party lines. If the republican candidate wins, with at least Ginsburg sure to retire this coming term, it will be a 6/3 right wing majority, which would be unbreakable. Breyer has been making some retirement noises, too, so it could mean a 7/2 lock on the highest court in the land by outright fascists. And that could be for the next 20 years, if not longer.

So I will personally hold my nose and vote for someone I am incredibly disappointed with for that sake alone. The alternative in unthinkable.

In the meantime, it is incumbent on us to make sure, especially through activism, that the dialogue about fairness and equity shifts in the country in order to give the Democratic party the talking points to resist pure evil, and the knowledge that the will be elected rather than penalized if they right thing. AND, we need to tae a page from the Right's playbook. For the last 30 years or so, they have made, as a central plan, carried out nationwide, electing local officials the priority. BUt getting who they wanted in local and eventually in state-wide office, they got the support they needed for people like Bush to get elected, and for the democrats to be in serious retreat, not only in terms of numbers, but more importantly in terms of ideology. And we have seen the Democrats turn sharply to the right as a result. (There were other forces at work, too, but that strategy was a big one.) We need to do the same. We need to work locally, apply pressure universally, from within and without, and kick that jackass in the ass until it starts moving in the proper direction again.

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Is it selective to state that both parties are funded by Special Interests and thus ultimately beholden to THEM when it comes time to create legislation, and both parties main objective is to keep the election 'war chests' stocked in any manor they can thus making them the sluts for the highest paying customer.

Up until this year Congressmen from both parties could legally use nonpublicly disclosed information gathered from interactions with corporate constituents to make profits on stock deals - 'insider trading.'

Congressmen from both parties spend 1 day in 3 'on the job' fundraising.

Repubs have ALEC funded by the Koch's writing legislative templates, the Dems have the Center for American Progress funded by Soros doing the same. (of course their are numerous other groups doing the same for both sides)

Bottom line is they both get their legislative cues from special interests, not their constituents. Whoever brings the most money to the table gets their agenda passed.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

It is a complete a scurrilous distortion to equate ALEC and the Center for American Progress. Just because they are both interest groups doesn't mean they are for the same things. The first is in favor of destroying the environment and ignoring climate change, the other is is favor of SAVING the environment and beginning to work to address climate change. And that's just one single example. of differences between them.

Yes, both parties must keep well funded if they are to have a chance at gaining office, and yes it is corrupting. But fundamental differences still remain. THe special interests they listen to are as different as Oil industry vs the Sierra club, The chamber of Commerce vs labor unions.

And, since you either didn't read it the first time or simply chose to ignore it, let me repeat: the judicial appointments to the federal courts, including the Supreme Courts, could not reflect greater differences. And those differences are tremendously consequential.

And, one again, also because you chose to ignore it: Only one party is trying to maintain tax breaks (and increase them) to the wealthy. Only one is trying to privatize all public education, and all social services. Only one is waging all-out war on women, only Romney has vowed to "shut down" Planned Parenthood, Only one is advocating discrimination of GLBTs, only one is trashing affirmative action, only one decided Citizens United, only one has made invasive strip searches legal for ALL offenses, including parking tickets or jaywalking.

These differences between parties make a real difference in real people's lives.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

I wasn't trying to equate ALEC and CAP ideologically, just functionally.

'And, since you either didn't read it the first time or simply chose to ignore it, let me repeat: the judicial appointments to the federal courts, including the Supreme Courts, could not reflect greater differences. And those differences are tremendously consequential.'

I agreed with you on the judicial appointments, maybe you forgot?

As to your next paragraph. I'm still not totally convinced. I didn't ignore the examples you gave.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

OK, I did indeed forget about the agreement you expressed earlier. My apologies.

As to the next paragraph, what would convince you? Look, REALLY look, at the voting records, as well as the initiatives of each party. What is Eric Cantor trying to do right now, with teh full backing of his party? Is there anything even close on the Democratic side? Romney has vowed to get rid of all funding for Planned Parenthood, and his party has been trying for years to kill that organization? Republicans in State houses have introduced laws to make it legal to assassinate doctors in abortion clinics (you can't make this shit up). The Republicans in Congress are actively trying to create even more tax breaks for the wealthy. They just last week blocked even debate on the so-called Buffet rule specifically to protect assets os millionaires. It was Democrats who introduced the legislation. The list goes on and on and on and on......

As to comparing the functionality of the two groups, ALEC and CAP, that is inaccurate as well. One actually writes and funds legislation. The other is an interest group. Those are two different functions. Only the first goes well beyond simple lobbying.

But one can't ignore the issue of the ideological differences. It is precisely the ideologies of ALEC and their ilk that are dangerous and destructive. If one tries to lobby congress for greater fairness, more equity, more civil rights, less corporatism, an end to war, and so on, saying that as an interest group it can be lumped together with the likes of ALEC, functionally or otherwise, is completely unreasonable and unwarranted. Frankly, I am surprised that you would do so.

By itself, lobbying is not evil. By themselves, the existence of interest groups do not undermine democracy. Interest groups are an essential part of democracy. They make sure groups of people get access to the halls of power, groups who would otherwise be voiceless, drowned out in the cacophony of a huge country's diverse electorate. Without them, there would be no environmental laws on the books today, no civil rights protections, no labor laws, no child protections (after all, children can't vote), not even any national parks, etc. We would have virtually no laws at all without someone somewhere, some special interest, talking to a lawmaker. It is, rather, the distortion of undue influence of lobbying by money that distorts the system and undermines democracy, not the existence of special interests themselves, nor of those interests attempts to be heard. I have no problem with Exxon lobbying Congress. I have a problem when they are able to spend thousands of times more than the Sierra Club in the process.

Finally, perhaps this article might be of Value to you. I, personally, agree with it entirely:

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/17/is_obama_no_better_than_the_gop/

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Working on it... back to you later.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Fair 'nuff. :)

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So far geo, this is where we have a point of contention.

If what you are saying is true, there should be a list, like one I'm sure we've all seen for the activities of ALEC, for the Center for American Progress.

I've not seen one.

The activities of ALEC, I would think we could both agree, are notorious in their intent and execution.

So, in terms of legislation passed? What of the activities of CAP?

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

'So, in terms of legislation passed? What of the activities of CAP?'

Now granted this is very weak... and I am learning through discussion :) The section below indicates that it is a lobbying group, but I can't find anywhere on their site that indicates which bills they were directly responsible for.

They must have been successful at something or else why would they be in existence? This is CAP Action, the lobbying arm of CAP.

From http://www.americanprogressaction.org/aboutus The Center for American Progress Action Fund is an independent nonpartisan education and advocacy organization dedicated to improving the lives of Americans through ideas and action. We are creating a long-term, progressive vision for America—a vision that policymakers, thought-leaders, and activists can use to shape the national debate and pass laws that make a difference.

Our mission is to transform progressive ideas into policy through rapid response communications, legislative action, grassroots organizing and advocacy, and partnerships with other progressive leaders throughout the country and the world.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Then can we, at this point at least agree that there is a difference here?

That there's a level of notoriety in ALEC legislation, that's missing in CAP?

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

It appears that way .... agreed.

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Having been there and through it, you don't get improvement or progress with Republicons, you get more of why we are here on OWS Forum in the fucking first place. Need I say more??

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

There are no 'elected representatives, 'we the people' rule through a participatory consensus democracy. The electorate are far from 'dumb and lazy' we are disengaged exactly because the system of representatives does not work and we know it!

Your comment is misanthropic.

[-] 2 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

It would be a nice start to follow the constitution.... lol don't hold your breath.

  • Ending illegal and undeclared offensive wars

  • Ending the domestic spying/extrajudicial retention that BuObshama has accelerated.

  • Stop corporate welfare as presented by the BushBama idiocracy.

  • Reign in the out of control deficit neither party seems to care much about.

You know, just crazy dumb right wing stuff. Things Occupy would never support ;)

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Well gosh-arootie Mr. Chunks.

All those things were really stared by wrong wing idealogs in the first place.

Constitution???

The (R)epelican'ts ripped it up and pissed on it when they let NIxon walk, rather than apply it to him.

They had to wait for stain on a dress to even bring it up again.

Yepperz, it was CRAZY wrong wing BS, that got us in this mess.

That's a BIG 10-4 good buddy.

[-] 2 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

That was obvious sarcasm, big boy.

I realize following the constitution is not right wing. I have no idea how you got that. These are things every American with a shred of sense should support. They are neither left nor right wing.

I have no idea how you managed to turn that into a partisan rant, but I certainly admire your ability to see partisanship at every turn. Quick question, maybe you can help me. Which party is my computer keyboard from? The "good" party or the "bad" party?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You would find the truth to be sarcastic.

That's another BIG 10-4 good buddy.

[-] 2 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

lol

So, you think the bulleted list above is full of "right wing" ideas? Really? Ending wars?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Yeah, bulleted lists like that do tend to be BS.

That one more than most.

Are you trying to say Nixon did not commit treason?

Or do you believe master minding B&Es is OK if you are a (R)epelican't, but bad if you are a street punk?

You do remember, he was the "law & order" president?

Or were you even born yet?

[-] 0 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

I wasn't paying too much attention to politics at the time, let's just say that. So all bulleted lists tend to be bad? Wow. What objections do you have to ending wars, deficits, and corporate welfare? It sounds to me like you are a stereotypical Bush-loving conservative.

Yes, Nixon was a criminal, I went ahead and did some research. I don't know what it has to do with this discussion, or why you would assume I wouldn't think he was a criminal.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You see, the thing is, Nixon committed treason all the way back then.

(R)epelican'ts have been doing it ever since. Please remember our nation in many ways runs on precedent.

I have NO objection to ending the "military action", yet I also understand that it isn't as easy to do as 1,2,3.

Deficits don't matter..

Ending corporate welfare at this point will take a SCOTUS that actually gives a damn about Americans.

That's not going to happen with the extremist, conse(R)vative make up of the current court.

[-] -1 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

All politicians have pretty much committed treason. They sell their souls to corporations and other powerful interests and forget about the people and the constitution.

Ending military action is not that easy? O-bomb-ya didn't seem to even think about it for the first three years of his term, and he could have at least not started bombing other countries.

Why will it take the supreme court to end corporate welfare? It is, after all, one of the greatest acts of treason there is. Take money from the economy and give it to the people who have plenty.

So if deficits don't matter, does that mean the national debt doesn't either? And why can't we just reduce taxes to zero for everyone, if it doesn't matter what the nations spending-to-income ratio is?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You know, that's what the (R)epelican'ts said when they let Nixon off, and they've been repeating it ever since.

Everybody's doin' it Mom.

And they they go off on confused stuff like you just did.

Nixon was a common criminal, that made it OK to be one, if you get high enough in the military industrial establishment.

[-] -1 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

"Confused stuff" lol

I'm sorry I went over your head.

This discussion was never about Nixon, who you correctly are referring to as a criminal. Do you care to address the last statement I made, or are you going to keep changing the subject, as an apparent admission of intellectual defeat?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I've addressed it umpteen times, in umpteen threads.

I know you conse(R)vatives just love to repeat yourselves endlessly, so you pretend you're new here and it's the very first time it's been presented.

You like act like you're a virgin all over again.

But, for the sake of your simplicity, I will give you a link one more time.

http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/

It's cutting edge macro-economics, so it will take while to understand.

There's these weird concepts called thinking and research?

You should try them out.

.

[-] -1 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

Oh, yeah, "research". Apparently now it involves parroting the same person's talking points over and over. You know what? I will humor you and look it up. This is going to be fun.

hold music...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The only thing apparent about you, is that you really enjoy throwing up.

It's apparent in your username.

But it could be your intellectual diet.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Ending wars? What about the 40 year multi-trillion dollar waste of money x I don't know how many dead war-on-drugs? It might be a slow creeping thing, but its right up there with every major conflict we've seen in terms of death & POWS.

They say hindsight is 20-20, so maybe we can forgive his early 1900s upbringing but from a vantage point of 2012, Marijuana is was defiantly not public enemy number 1.

[-] 0 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

Yes, let's end that war as well, as we cannot afford it. at least, per the constitution, end all federal involvement in it.

Sometimes, it really seems like you guys are out to prove that I disagree with you. I think we'd agree on more than you think.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Glad to hear. Don't worry, I'm probably in the same boat. I like to make my own mind up about stuff some my opinions are all over the map...

[-] 0 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

There seem to be a lot of guys around here trying to do that 'Chunks. Let's just say, they seem to have difficulties with any politics other than their own. And their own politics apparently revolve around re-electing a certain D president and D congressmen.

[-] -1 points by jgriff (6) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Shooz is pro war, hes a neo con

[+] -8 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

What's so funny about the Constitution?

We the People elected POTUS Obama, but Republicons have declared him (the will of the people) the enemy!!

Nothing he or Dems try to do is not sabotaged by the Cons, like the Buffet Rule was yesterday.

You are a Con, and hell is where you belong, not here.

Go back to your cult.

[-] 0 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

Whoa. If I was a "con", it would probably be the first time any of them ever said we should end illegal wars, corporate welfare, domestic spying, and deficits. Those sound like liberal positions to me, I have no idea how that sounds conservative to you. But, you did get angry, so I guess I hit some kind of nerve. The first person to start calling names in an online discussion is usually the first one to realize they are wrong.

[-] 1 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

"end illegal wars, corporate welfare, domestic spying, and deficits. Those sound like liberal positions to me"

Actually, those are all conservative issues as well, but they are not modern Republican issues. Neo-cons and conservatives are not one in the same.

[-] -1 points by BLOWCHUNKS (43) 2 years ago

See, that's where it gets kind of semantical IMO. Conservative and liberal are just useless labels, that really don't mean anything. I say those positions, (Which Mr. Squid seems to have a problem with) are liberal because the meaning of liberal is to allow people freedom, which those positions run parallel to.

[-] 1 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

I agree, these labels have gotten out of hand; "classical liberal" is libertarian today but was republican 60 years ago while progressive today is far different from what it was when it was first used politically back in the 1920's.

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 2 years ago

My perfect politicians would be spending allthere available time in a grave.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Get out the Vote!

Or get out the way!

[-] 1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 2 years ago

You get out the vote.And you get out the way.And remember the blood of the world is on your hands for endorsing the established war criminals.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

What ev...

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 2 years ago

When did you become thirteen?

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

At about 10, I was ahead of my peers.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Support the people of Wisconsin in their bid to regain their government.

GO - Sconny!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

The planet that perfect, well maybe not "perfect" but pretty darn good, presidents live on is planet earth, in a different age. All that we have to do is look at our history to identify that small number of presidents who, thought maybe not perfect, were a lot better than what we have now.

On my list is JFK, FDR, Abraham Lincoln, plus a few more. The question is, how do we get presidents like this once again? Can our society still produce such individuals, or does society need to be changed?

Over two thousand years ago, in a time of great corruption, Confucius started a school to train government officials to not only be smart, but also good people. Their education involved the study of the classics, history that was ancient even then in China, as well as the fine arts.

The result was a system that made China the greatest country in the world for about one thousand years.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Greetings, Arturo. There are some that may argue, all things considered, that China is the greatest country in history. To future historians, there may, in fact, be no doubt.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Greetings to you, hopefully America can regain its status as a great country as well.

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

A society that is bombarded with "Big Lie," hate/fear/blame, and disinformation 24/7/365 can hardly expect to always elect good democratic representatives. If we had more Bernnie Sanders, Alan Graysons and Obamas and fewer Mitch McConnels, Boners, and Romneys we'd be worlds better off.

[-] 1 points by JoeW (109) 2 years ago

I live on Annares, we recognize no perfection except to forsake the evils of ownership, the revolution never ends, the fight for individual freedom is a battle that never ceases, even when there is no government.

I do hope that somebody gets this reference.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Ursla's Dispossessed. Nice.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

your planet? are you from mars?

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Whose planet?

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

You really need to read this:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

I'd consider supporting a politician who would demand a thorough prosecution on this matter.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Big Pharma is evil, and the Cons are a wholly owned subsidiary of Big Biz.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Opposition to both parties of the 1% is not a cult position. It is not even merely a majority position, It is the consensus position of the entire Occupy movement. Democracy is in the streets not in the few minutes each year you spend in the voting booth trying to decide which politician of the 1% is least objectionable. All out for May Day, the day of the International General Strike.

[-] 1 points by amanofnoimportance (82) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

(reposted to eliminate dangling paranoia troll)

Cult?

That has the ring to it of something harmful.

Anyways... my ideal government? That's easy!

One that stays out of the way of those who support and foster great knowledge and understanding, and exists to collate information and steward a just decision-making process involving as many inhabitants as possible without exerting any influence.

Does this sound like the government we have?

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Do you even know what UR doing here?

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Until your house and hospital are wiped out by a hurricane, or BP wipes out your livelihood.

Get beyond the RW talking points. Without all the infrastructure and services that government (which BTW is us) provides, Big Biz and the 1% would not have made the record-breaking profits they now want to keep all to themselves. Does this sound fair?

You want a Ron Paul Gov?

[Deleted]

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

U talk the talk, don't U walk the walk?

Is Paul RW?

[-] 1 points by amanofnoimportance (82) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

Your prior response was hyperbole coming from nowhere. You've thrown my personal opinion into a category without confirmation. You label with blind, contemptuous confidence.

No, I am not affiliated with any political party. If you persist, it's with your imagination as evidence.

I hope people like you do not represent the current state of OWS.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Me thinks thou protest too much. The classic righteous indignation sign of a true rightie. There are RWers in both parties. My prior questions have gone unanswered in your feigned umbrage.

And yes, the former Republicon Party has degenerated into a Cult whose followers worship their 1% Plutocratic Kings/employers to the detriment of the American People 99%.

[-] 1 points by blinxwang (25) from Johns Creek, GA 2 years ago

Politicians? What politicians? On our planet, the people have the first and last word! Direct democracy is THE ONLY way to do democracy!

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I'd like to hear more about that. How could that work in a country as large and spread out as ours? How would the rich and corporate manipulate it? Who would benefit and how? Very curious.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

Nice thought-experiment, I like it!

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Occupy Earth Day and Get Out the VOTE!!

[-] 1 points by jssk (170) from Naperville, IL 2 years ago

I'm assuming you are trying to start a discussion rather than just calling people stupid like many posts here do.

To be honest there are quite a few on my list. First of all, the fundamental structure of our democracy is good. The division of the three branches of power, I think, is what made America what we are today.

But in practice, the format of a lot of things needs change. For starters, how about no Super PAC's? These billionaires, first they don't pay much taxes, and now their one vote equals 50 million of our votes? I know technically they still have one vote but we all know you need money to get your message out. And their message sure go further than mine.

And one thing that really bothers me about the congress is we need wise people in those offices, not idiots with a good personality. Our political system makes it very important for politicians to be good public speakers, and a lot of times as long as you make people excited it no longer matter whether you know what you are talking about. It takes a lot of intelligence and experience to have healthy values and understand how the country works. And from what I've seen on TV over the past few years. Some congress people are just not quite there yet. And these are the people we are relying on to make the decisions for this country. A lot of them sure are good speakers and likable individuals. But this ain't no charity event, this is business.

So in my perfect world, we would probably have some sort of system to separate the fundraisers from the responsibilities of a congressman, to minimize the impact of individuality. Such as a system where you fund raise for your party as a whole. Or take in account the votes of people with higher credentials, sort of like audience votes plus judges' score. I'm no political scientist, so I don't know how exactly you construct it, but I believe we can have a system to force people running for public office to be more intelligent than just popular.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Yes, our democracy was never meant to be bought by the highest bidder. But our Reps are just that, representative of us. Lotta dummies out there.

Occupy Earth Day and Get Out the VOTE!!

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

On planet perfection, they are doing the exact opposite as the dems and repugs, and have a 92% approval rating.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

That would be nice. They must all pay attention and Vote there.

Here on Earth, democracy is not a spectator sport. Our neglect caused this mess.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

My last one was taking pics of his junk, and the one before that liked to be escorted to often.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Two great Dems and Americans, with very minor flaws that never hurt a sole. Like Bill and the BJ. Americans let our disgusting puritanical past still haunt us today, thanks to Cons.

They'll be back, and we could use them.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I love when the electorate gets blamed; they're lazy, stupid, etc.

Don't believe it for a minute, we have a corrupt system in which both parties eagerly kow tow to monied interests. A perfect world may exist, but humans aren't part of it. Meanwhile on earth, we can get rid of as many of the corrupt politicians, which both parties are full of, as possible. Of course that would leave no politicians, and we'd have to do what we set out to do: revolution.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Well when we have turned our backs on a system that requires our participation, we have to blame ourselves. When only a fraction bother to vote, we have to blame ourselves. When the Cons, who have been against this democratic experiment since before our revolution, seize our neglected system and turn it into one that serves the 1% (current day Kings) Plutocrats making everyone have to appease the money men if the want to play and we blame both parties, we have to wake the fuck up.

Democracy is not a spectator sport, we have to get involved. Lets get the money, the Cons and any other politician who does not serve We The People (99%) out of our democracy.

But don't fall for the Cons con-job that both parties are the same.

Get out the Vote!

[-] 1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Unfortunately on our planet people are too stupid to realize that there aren't 2 parties once the elections are over. It's one giant ruling class. This includes elected officials, people who contribute to their campaigns, lobbying groups such as global warming and guns, terrorists and the spin the media makes out of terrorism and everyone else who controls us.

They always win. We rarely do. They give money to big corporations then in the same breath tell us how bad they are. They do absolutely nothing to help us by writing bills that are obviously not in our best interest, then they stand on the capital steps and tell a camera that they've made great strides in progressing the cause of the american people.

They're liars. They're thieves. They're making tons of money while they tighten the restraints on us, the american public.

This planet sucks.

[-] 0 points by dan1984 (108) from Cumberland, MD 2 years ago

You've hit the proverbial nail on the head. The parties, in my opinion, are just a distraction, so we the people feel like we have a say in political matters. It's like the episode of South Park where the only options for which to vote were a turd sandwich or a giant douche.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

You know, they have turd burgers in japan! No kidding (I almost said, "No shit"):

http://inhabitat.com/poop-burger-japanese-researcher-creates-artificial-meat-from-human-feces/

Those people are, well, . . . strange.

[-] 2 points by dan1984 (108) from Cumberland, MD 2 years ago

that is disgusting, vile and hilarious.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

As is your answer! I thought the same thing. I've seen some of the crazy shit the Japanese have come up with over the years. It's a circus. Can't wait to see what's next!

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Wrong! But Cons want you to think you're right. They want you hating the whole system. Cons want to get The People out of government, it doesn't matter how or why. Don't fall for the Cons con-job that both parties are the same. The less people vote, the better Cons do.

Democracy is not a spectator sport. But We The People have largely turned our backs and the Cons, who have been against our democracy since its inception, have snapped it up and turned it against us in service to the 1% Plutocrat Kings. Under this neglected political state, everyone has to appease the money men, including Dems if they want to succeed. We have to get back in the game. The last thing we need is more Cons in our government. Then we have to get the money out.

We have a lot of waking up to do and then a lot of work!

Get out the Vote!

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Cons?

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

RepubliCONS! Cons!

Descendants from the settlers who favored English Rule and the King to this revolutionary, liberal idea of democracy, rule by The People. They have plotted and sabotaged our democratic experiment from the beginning and still do today. They, Cons, distrust and fear a collective, a system that serves The People. They prefer an autocratic, authoritarian system that serves the top 1% Plutocrats, today's version of Kings.

Cons suck!

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Authoritarian system that serves the top 1%... like Obamas cabinet that's made up of almost 75% Wall St. executives?

While I'm sure you're serious, I can't stop laughing at your naivete.

Also, I keep hearing news clips about what countries in Europe are doing to fix their financial crisis and every time, they say that they're starting to limit the size of their "social program burden" by cutting back. They've started making people pay for drugs in Spain because they can't afford the freebies anymore. Yet some of us in this country would love to see a single payer medical system. Are they stupid? Are they completely cutoff from the news? Or are they really trying to sabotage what's left of our country? SOCIALISM DOESNT WORK.

It kinda makes ya wonder about how stable a fully socialized country can be huh? Considering they're in debt up to their eyeballs due to giving people something for nothing for all those years. What are we going to do when our govt spends the USA into bankruptcy? Ask Europe for a bailout? LOL

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Occupy Earth Day and Get Out the VOTE!!

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Planet perfection would be one in which money would be completely outside of politics.....if politicians weren't motivated by greed (which stems from money) we wouldn't be in the mess we're in and the people's interests would actually be looked after. Their total income (from all different avenue's) would be capped each year they are in congress. They are there to provide a patriotic duty...to serve the citizens...not make millions and base policy decision on lobby, campaign, or portfolio money.

[+] -7 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

RepubliCons will never take their Citizens United money out of our government!

Gotta Vote 'em OUT!!

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

They're both gettting funded by the same peeps...all you gotta do is take a quick glance at top campaign contributors for romney and obama...its not a republican only deal...dems are lining their pockets as well...its a government problem as a whole.

[-] 0 points by jusdude (15) 2 years ago

Anarchic-Democracy on planet Awesome

[-] 1 points by ancientmariner (275) 2 years ago

Judasdude???

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Dream Weaver...

[-] 1 points by jusdude (15) 2 years ago

Indeed my friend

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Let's choose improvement.

Dump the Cons, get Out the Vote!!

[-] 0 points by jusdude (15) 2 years ago

Improvement is a very subjective word my friend. On planet Awesome, improvement is equality, autonomy, equal distribution of power. It was recognized long ago that this cannot be done by voting for a representative. Each person is a responsible citizen. Each person is raised to be their own representative. The People vote for the laws. The People control the policy. No intermediaries. No masters. Only the people. Always the people.

[+] -5 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

You're not thinking it through, most of us have to work and have families to take care of. Our forefathers set up a representative democracy for this and many other reasons. We have neglected the system we were given and the 1% would-be Kings have snatched it up (they recognize what an awesome power our democracy is!!!) and turned it against us to their astronomical advantage. NOW We have the lowest voter turn out and the greatest disparity of rich and poor. Nice job derelict rebels without a fucking clue!!!

Wake up and use the fucking weapons we were given, idiots!!!

[-] 1 points by jusdude (15) 2 years ago

I am thinking it through. There was never a guarantee that any representative was going to act in our best interest. What we are seeing now is the inevitable corruption of a system that cannot be controlled by the people. Representatives can ignore and have ignored over and over again, not just now but for a long time, the will of their people. You can't raise 1 % to have power over you and then expect to be able to control them. This will and have always happened throughout history, people raised to power by the people not acting in the interest of the people. It is what the forefathers were trying to escape. It is what inevitably came of the system they created.

But I am barking up the wrong tree with this particular argument. I say that every system needs to be challenged and revolutionized by the people in that system. If it is difficult to do such a thing, then the system is corrupt. I say that we should automatically support each citizen that lives. Free and equal access to all resources. No money. If we don't do that then we are lesser humans than we can be. I say that policy should be explored on a small scale, judged scientifically, measured for its results, and discarded or amended if it does not do what it is supposed to do (a scientific method for policy change.) I say that the public should have access to all of this knowledge and they should make those decisions, not a select few. Complete transparency, complete equality, complete autonomy. Complete control. But that is not it. Even a system like the one I described should be challenged and improved upon.

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[-] 0 points by bobgnote (-55) 2 years ago

On my planet, Earth, Democrats think they deserve my money, to crawl for President, so they can get into the White House and Congress, and suppress legalization of hemp, while they profiteer, at three-letter agency and corporate surveillance. An inconvenient truth is Al Gore refused to sue, when he was robbed of the Presidency, and he also failed to support legalized hemp, while a Senator, so now he doen't grow industrial hemp, on his big, stupid farm. Shoot a rocket into the air, it breaks down the ozone, whether Democrats or Republicans are in office. They all steal intellectual property, INCLUDING MUSIC, right out of our homes, and invite the corporate perps into the White House, such as Mick Jagger visiting both Nixon and Obama. Or don't you watch Russia Today, featuring OWS Leeds' Helen Alexander, who is helping lead a protest against the Menwith UK American spy center? She claims it conducts political and corporate surveillance, which I do not doubt.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by bobgnote (-55) 2 years ago

We don't live anywhere perfect, clown. We live on a planet with MTV, which showed JACKASS and VIVA LA BAM, since they were smart enough to produce foreshadowing of the Obama White House, featuring better clowns, who do stunts, almost as good as Democrats serve republican agendas, like ZIONISM and the DRUG WAR. The Democrat-controlled Congress passed the Hemp Stamp tax Act of 1938 in 15 mintues, FDR signed it, and it took until 1972 or so for this travesty to be declared unconstitutional, whereupon Nixon founded the DEA. The Democrats are still too far up their own butts, to avoid debacles like Obamacare, lose the House, and then they cannot pass biomass research, this year, in their out-of-tactical order thrashings. If they did have a guy like Robert Reich, the cast of Jackass saw him coming with Wee Man,, who kicked himself in the head, in the 2002 movie, and usually, he runs around in his underwear, with big old Preston Lacy chasing him. Just like Robert Reich, trying to get a Democrat agenda, which he has been unable to do, given inconvenient truth about both Democrats and Republicans, who are too stupid to end the drug or any other war. Just try to get in there, when you think your sarcasm can get your miserable Democrats to take the little blue Israel-mobiles out of their butts and quit driving drunk, till death do us part. RIP, Ryan Dunn, 2011.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I'm sure you have something important to say, but I am unable to correctly understand your post. Sorry about Mr. Dunn.

Perhaps seeing a movie your post brought to mind would help, "Idiocracy," no pun intended.

Happy 420.

[-] 0 points by bobgnote (-55) 2 years ago

"Kleptocracy" is what is relevant. If M.R. gets elected, he can call it anything he wants. For instance, "Muppetland."

Could you last a full round with an MMA fighter? Just asking. See FAST FIVE. Also, know we have 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the prisoners.

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

You got it. Klept- Plut- Olig- Feudal

The Cons want to bring back their Kings. They've been trying since the Rev. Something makes them think now is the time. What is it??

Possibly because the 1% Kingdom was busted and we didn't storm the castles with torches and pitch forks or anything.

I could go a 3 to one death-match with Boner, McConnell, and Ryan!!

Writing a movie about a "heist" (sorta) in Brazil as we post, even wanted the Rock. Coincidence? I think not!

[-] 0 points by bobgnote (-55) 2 years ago

The hot series on pay TV is a fantasy, called Game of Thrones. It is based on George R.R. Martin's A Tale of Fire and Ice. The cons still don't want to admit, how the ice will melt, in the course of the usual royal refrain, of war, to sustain in-bred bastards, as rectus dominus regime tyrants. Them that has gets, when they need to GIT.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

"Both Parties Are Bad Cult"

Typical religious nut calling something they don't understand or agree with a "cult"...

[+] -6 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Take off your blinders or declare you are a Con Cult Zombie!!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-earth-day-celebrate-the-occupy-movement-natio/

[-] 0 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

A zombie? Yeah right. That's not even physically possible.

I believe Ambassador Spock proved this the case in Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Approximate Stardate 50094. Maybe you should go back to Starfleet and actually learn something.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Zombie!

Brain dead, masochist, follower of the RW Republicon Cult who worship their 1% plutocratic Kings.

[-] 0 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

Sheeple

People who think there is a difference between republicans and democrats. And thus argue over minor differences of opinion that have nothing to do with any of the actual problems that plague the majority American citizens.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Zealots!

There is this ongoing "problem" with the understanding of a certain segment of people, which your reply really nicely defines (not yours). I'll call it zealotry.

IF you are sincere, your zealotry is well meaning. If you are not, then you are just a troll conducting deliberate sabotage. But sincerely your zealotry causes accidental sabotage, so does it make any difference? I often call the anarchists intellectual Typhoid Marys, unwitting (blind) carriers infecting the cause with destructiveness and recklessness.

I love the idealistic notion that a person or new administration or even a political party can sweep into our government and instantly reverse decades of entrenched RW corruption, cronyism, and 1% plutocracy. But it is a fantasy, just like having a perfect government is a fantasy. Not reality.

And it's not hard to see this. It's right there in front of your face.

So, has your zealotry blinded you, or are you deliberately ignoring the facts so that you can bash a moderate, black, Dem POTUS???

Zealot, real or pretend, NO ONE could reverse the war machine, the untethered greed, the poverty and injustice we have now instantly, especially with only a fickle and petulant electorate to back her or him up (like we saw in 2010). NO ONE! Our negligence and RW exploitation has caused too much damage. And this is beyond obvious.

So what we have are compromises, some good, some bad, some awful. And 2010 exacerbated the problem, letting in all those stupid ass Teabags.

If you really want things to reverse, and return to progress, we have to do more than vote once and walk away. We have to get involved and NEVER walk away!! Democracy is not a spectator sport!!

Open your zealotry-blinded eyes and see the reality that we have to work with. Then join hands and form a winning team to make this world a better place. Or just keep blindly bashing, but at least get some checks from the GOP! They have ALL the money! and share!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!! Register and Vote! Register and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you an excellent comment on how things really are.

Unite in common cause and own the system like never before.

We go forward - TOGETHER.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Thanx.

Just wrote a short but sweet reply to that thread on "Wall St and Capitalism and Higher standard of living." Tell me what you think of that one.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Will do.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

A government of the people, for the people, not a two headed fascist one.

I dream of a government where the people get a say, and if it is representative form, then the representatives do what we ask (most voters arent that far in differences on the major issues).

But currently, we are on a planet that half the voters refer to liberals as "librtards" "Obots" and other childish names, while the half uses terms like Republicons, Re-pel-icans, etc.

On my planet, people would think for themselves, and the media would play a very little role in determining what the topics and debates were.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I'm sick of your dumb-ass talking points. Go do some surfing and find out how dumb you are. I'm not your teacher. WWW!!!

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

^doesnt think for himself and is therefore offended by post.. HAHAHHA

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I didnt know you thought of Earth Day?!...

Thats amazing!

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

What U don't know...

Open UR eyes, read history, step back and see the big pic, broaden UR perspective.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I'm way ahead of you bro...

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Clearly

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Im glad we finally agree on something....

All night all day occupy tampa bay. Wake the fuck up people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMc8CR6dppc

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

You gotta good hot spot at UR bus stop?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

How are things at Occupy Portland going?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I was looking for more of a personal statement...

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Some of the Occupy PDXers need to get a clue. Most are bright, idealistic champions. But just as in grade school, one or two dip-shits can ruin it for everybody and make us all suffer. MSM is looking for the dirt. That's why I keep stressing being camera ready, picture perfect, loud and clear (no cardboard and crayon scribbles) with signs, banners and FLAGS (the ultimate symbol of American life, liberty and justice)! One guy actually had a sign that said "honk if UR horny." Some hung their wet sleeping bags over banners rendering them unreadable.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

My favorite one so far, though not quite camera friendly, was "Founding Fathers would already be shooting"....

Its tough trying to keep everyone in line. Especially with the horizontal structure being emphasized to the point it is.

[-] 0 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

For one, a plural executive in the White House: one Dem, one Rep and one Independent. Alexander Hamilton rejected the idea but that was nealy 150 years ago. From Wikipedia:

Federalist No. 70 (Federalist Number 70) is an essay by Alexander Hamilton and the seventieth of the Federalist Papers. It was published on March 15, 1788 under the pseudonym Publius, the name under which all the Federalist Papers were published. Its title is, "The Executive Department Further Considered", and it is the fourth in a series of 11 essays discussing the powers and limitations of the Executive branch. The essay deals with the question of a plural executive. Hamilton argues that a plural executive, having more than one president, "tends to conceal faults, and destroy responsibility", and states that a singular president would better be suited to wield the full potential of his power in a quick and efficient way, without falling into endless squabbling and dispute with other executives with the same power. He also warns that when dealing with more than one leader, "there is always difference of opinion". A strong and energetic executive branch requires unity, duration in office, adequate resources, and sufficient powers.

The idea that one man and his sycophant staff have the wisdom, skill sets and independence for a nation of 300+ million people is ipso facto absurd. We ousted King George, now we must do the same for his replacement. Onward to phase II of democracy.

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I think that they intended the other two branches and the Media to balance and help. Remember it's the will of The People that was supposed to prevail and guide here. If we choose Dems, Cons or Indies we should get them.

What they didn't count on was the evolution and invasion of the King's Royalists in the Cons, who've plotted against our experiment in democracy since the beginning, usurping our system to serve the 1% plutocrat Kings!!

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

THEY didn't intend that there would be parties. I fact they worried about it very consciously. BTW we do have three parties that are really affecting things. The old GOP, the SuperPAC GOP and the Dems.

The Dems need a single issue SuperPAC of small donors (short term, don't panic), to offset the big donors who work through the party (because they can control it). and support the "get the money out" amendments. The effort needs to get serious right after this election and if the GOP wins, substitute ""panic" for "serious".

[-] -3 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Please tell that to the hchc s on here.

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

How can it ever be the WILL of the people if people continue to elect individuals to initiate policies meant to dictate what their individual WILL should be?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

All they have to do is stop voting for (R)epelican'ts!!!!!

It really is that simple and easy.

So how are you viagra sales doing?

[-] 0 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Personally I don't vote. Never have never will unless it's on a local agenda -)

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You didn't answer the question.

I think you should always vote, and YOU should always write in Bigfoot!!!!

Bigfoot is smarter than ANY (R)epelican't!!! So you can't go wrong with that.....:)

You wanna answer the question now?

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Do you allow your prejudices to predetermine your view of others?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What prejudice do you perceive?

You are obviously prejudicial of democracy.

[-] 0 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

That I sell viagra. I'm not prejudice against democracy nor against capitalism.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Good to know you're shyster, skirting the law.

You likely don't think the FDA is much good, eh?

[-] 0 points by jgriff (6) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Have you looked at the ingredients in our food? Or fast food? They are clearly repping the monsanto people.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Look deeply into ALECs eyes. You are getting sleepy, so very sleepy.

http://www.prwatch.org/node/11060

The (R)epelican'ts have done it again

[-] 0 points by jgriff (6) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

most of the stuff in food in teh stores should not be allowed in it. who is overlooking it?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

WallStreet is overlooking for gains in profitability.

It's what they do.

Real food costs more to make than cheezy chemicals.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

all food is made of chemicals

[-] -1 points by jgriff (6) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

So what role does the FDA do?

[-] 0 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

The viagra comment came from your assumptions not mine. Who exactly are you and what do YOU specifically have to add to the OWC discussions

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Except it wasn't an assumption.

It was on your page.

What do I add? I add a revilement for (R)epelican'ts.

I also bring a growing understanding of the neolibe(R)tarianism that has been infecting political process all over world.

In this country, it is most apparent in the (R)epelican't party.

So what do you bring, besides viagra?

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

I know you probably won't believe me but my page was hacked by a redirect. Here is the email conversation I had with tech support -


"On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 7:12 AM, TierraNet support@tierra.net wrote:

edibleplanet,

Thank you for contacting us. This is an automated response confirming the receipt of your ticket. One of our agents will get back to you as soon as possible. For your records, the details of the ticket are listed below. When replying, please make sure that the ticket ID is kept in the subject line to ensure that your replies are tracked appropriately.

   Ticket ID: 2034703
   Subject: Web Site Performance
   Department: TierraNet
   Type: Issue
   Status: Open
   Priority: Normal

You can check the status of or reply to this ticket online at: <https://supportphd.com/index.php?/TierraNet/Tickets/Ticket/View/2034703>

Kind regards,

TierraNet

TierraNet Customer Care
support@tierra.net Support Center: <https://supportphd.com/index.php?/TierraNet>

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Michael Small support@tierra.net wrote:

Hello Scott,

Thank you for your email. It definitely does not look like a DNS issue with your domain, but it does kind of seem like someone might have been able to exploit the PHP on your site and inject some code or files that would cause this action. I would recommend looking through your site files, deleting anything that is not familiar or supposed to be there, and performing any upgrades to any PHP services you might have like Wordpress or Joomla. Thanks again for contacting us, please let us know if you have any further questions. Have a great day.

Sincerely,

Michael Small
TierraNet Customer Care
support@tierra.net

Ticket Details Ticket ID: 2034703
Department: TierraNet
Type: Issue
Status: Closed
Priority: Normal

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 12:46 PM, The Roots edibleplanet@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks Michael and you were right.  I found the file causing the redirect.  Deleted it and changed the password as well.

Scott


On 4/28/2012 9:02 AM, Michael Small wrote:
Hello Scott,

Thank you for your email. It definitely does not look like a DNS issue with your domain, but it does kind of seem like someone might have been able to exploit the PHP on your site and inject some code or files that would cause this action. I would recommend looking through your site files, deleting anything that is not familiar or supposed to be there, and performing any upgrades to any PHP services you might have like Wordpress or Joomla. Thanks again for contacting us, please let us know if you have any further questions. Have a great day.

Sincerely,

Michael Small
TierraNet Customer Care
support@tierra.net

Ticket Details Ticket ID: 2034703
Department: TierraNet
Type: Issue
Status: Closed
Priority: Normal

Support Center: <https://supportphd.com/index.php?/TierraNet>
Support Center: <https://supportphd.com/index.php?/TierraNet> "

I would like to offer my apologies shooz and thank you for indirectly giving me a heads up on that redirect.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

If it was not your intention, then I apologize too.

It just seemed odd that the active link was for viagra sales.

WB and have at it.........:)

[-] 1 points by EdiblePlanet (50) 2 years ago

Actually I found that it wasn't on the active pages which was why I didn't notice it. It was on the pages that didn't have actual coding so if someone tried to get to a page of mine that didn't exist they would get redirected to that canadian pharmacy. It was actually a redirect that originated in Russia. Thanks for the "leeway" :)

[+] -4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Education! What's UR idea?

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Not bombing countries that didn't attack us.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

War is always a mistake. We established the UN to make war obsolete. The Military Industrial Complex has succeeded in circumventing, possibly weakening, the UN.

This is all a result of our collective neglect. Democracy is not a spectator sport. We need to play to win.

Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

A consistent lesser evil Vote eventually evolves into a really good one, but never perfect.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

But if we're voting for the lesser of evils.... how come we never go with the least evil? People vote where the corporate money is. That's why Obama and Hilary blinded out the better options, like Kucinich one of the few 100% OWS supporters in the democratic party. Although he even lost his seat in congress. Apparently the truth is too scary for most people. HR 2990 is the first step to real solutions.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Kucinich lost his seat in Congress because the Rebubliards in his state gerrymandered his district out of existence. Obama and Hilary didn't do that. Republitards disenfranchised the voters on the left. You and they have that effort in common.

The least evil is not permitted when the greater evil is permitted to prevail. And that's not those with the (D) after their name.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

We were talking about Kucinich's run for presidency in 2008 and democratic voters in the primaries, we were not talking about how he recently lost his seat in congress. Republicans had nothing to do with who the democrats voted for in the primaries in 2008.

And yes, the redistricting was the only way they could get Dennis out of congress, although he was moved to an area where he ran against a democrat and not a republican. It's a sad day. He was my number one source about the bullshit actions of congress and he was always there voting the right way and calling out all the crap from both sides.

When you're bombing countries that didn't attack us, doing favors for Goldman Sachs and Monsanto, you're doing evil and sadly it's not just being done by republicans, it's happening because of democrats too.

This is OWS and we know both parties work for the 1% and war. Hence the bailouts for the frauds and the continued war legacy under Obama. Hell, Obama just celebrated signing the Republican Jobs Act. A bill which opens investors to predatory fraud and repealed regulations put in place after the ENRON fraud. Not to forget that bill doesn't create a single job. How many countries has Obama bombed since he took office? The number is higher than Bush.

SOUNDS THE SAME! WHAT CHOICE IS THAT?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You feel the two parties are identical because you look at all the areas in with they currently overlap. I still see very real and important places where they don't and are in fact very much the opposite. I think your vision is selective, that you cherry pick you issues.

And I really am sick to death about your trying to shame people into not voting, or at least not doing so in a way that will have any effect. You are doing the bidding of the Republicans alone in that they, too, want nothing more than to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

What you are doing is not party-neutral, even though you lump both parties together in absolute terms. Considering your readership - the context in which you are posting - the fact that they wouldn't even consider voting republican (the Privatize Everything party) , the only ones you are really addressing in terms of discouraging voting are the same potentially democratic ones the republicans are trying so hard to get out of the way, too. Inadvertently perhaps, you wind up acting as a republican shill. If you really think they are both the same, why are you working so hard to support one of them?

By the way, the bailouts might very well have helped the frauds. But they also happened to save the economy from collapsing even more completely, causing even more pain for main street. The issue is not the bailouts, but the criminal behavior that made them necessary, and the relative lack of bailouts for ordinary people.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

You're defending the bailouts for Wall Street on an Occupy Wall Street page? That's the route you're taking? Do you know why OWS started? Maybe instead of throwing a bunch of money at the problems created on Wall Street they could have come up with a real solution. The criminal behavior extended to congress when they passed those bailouts for the criminal behavior.

The bailouts for Wall Street were driven by fear not fact. Too much money, too short of time, going to too few people with too much secrecy. Why didn't they have hearings on the plan? Why didn't they even question the entire premise of bailing out fraudulent banks with tax payer money? Why didn't they consider any alternatives instead of giving a bunch of money to Wall street? Why didn't they just ask Wall Street to clean up their own mess? Those CEO's probably had 700 billion dollars of their own money when combined. Why aren't we passing new laws to stop the speculation which caused all this? Why aren't they putting up new regulatory structures to protect investors? Why aren't they directly helping home-owners with their debt burdens? Why aren't they helping families faced with bankruptcy? Why aren't we reducing debts for main street instead of Wall Street? Isn't it time for some change in our debt based monetary system so we can free ourselves from the manipulation of the federal reserve and the big banks? IS THIS THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS OR THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING FOR GOLDMAN SACHS?

Kucinich is right. I don't get how you can't see that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YimTs6Q_xD0

Also I'm not shaming anyone into not voting. I'm just saying if people want the change they talk about, they're obviously not going to get it from Goldman Sachs sponsored, pro-war presidents giving tax payer dollars to fraudulent members of the 1%.

Why not just let the federal reserve solve the problem? That bogus process has happened before. The federal reserve at one time created 1.2 trillion dollars from nothing and gave it out to the big banks. - http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/sep/28/dennis-kucinich/rep-dennis-kucinich-says-fed-created-12-trillion-o/

1.2 trillion dollars. Yeah if our country had that power we wouldn't be in debt and taxes could actually be lowered all the while spending could increase which could stimulate the economy by building roads, schools, etc... Sounds great right. Then why isn't it getting the support it needs? HR 2990 will not pass or get support from the president because it takes the power away from the big banks. They create money out of nothing and everyone else owes them.

But don't worry, the corporatism candidates won't talk about these issues because they're both funded by Wall Street and even Obama himself has an administration catered to Wall Street. - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-brenner/barack-obama-out-of-the-c_b_813027.html

Maybe after 15 years of wars and bombing countries after Obama wins another presidency in 2016, maybe then you'll wake up from the divide and conquer strategy the 1% has set in place.

And I have a lot of criticism for Obama because he is the current president. Even the super liberal ACLU has a ton of criticism for the Obama administration. They've filed several lawsuits in regards to war crimes and suppressing information. Also Romney is not president. Romney is not going to win either. Romney is a tool. Not much else to talk about when it comes to that because Obama is the current president. Current. Everyone on this site knows the republicans are a waste of time... I don't need to convince anyone of that because it's common knowledge on this site.

Also if you've read my other posts, I have a huge amount of criticism for most members in congress for passing bills that steal our rights and create most of these problems mentioned. I'm a die hard liberal and people need to wake up and see a lot of phony politicians wear the D as a mask.

People need to vote smart. Look into voting history and vote based on that. Obama has done some good things. But 10 good things does not offset 10 bad things. Especially when those bad things include war where our soldiers die and innocent civilians have as well.

If you look at your ballot in November, there will be more options than Obama and Romney.

Just sharing some truth.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

There will be NO more options in November. Not one. Unless you think voting for Donald Duck is a viable one. Voting for someone who can garner, at best, 1 or 2% of the vote from the left is doing nothing more than taking that 1 or 2% AWAY from the left. It will not effect change, except to make the likelihood of the Republicans winning stronger. What you advocate is right in line with what the republican party has been working for:for years: splitting the Democratic vote to gain a Republican advantage. And you're not even getting paid to work for them!

If people want the change they are talking about, they must work for that change very hard and over a long period of time. Change will NOT happen by splitting the vote and making it more likely that that we will see and end to Medicaid, food stamps, medicare, social security and much, much MUCH more. Positive change will not come if we see a complete consolidation of right wing power in the federal courts, most especially the Supreme court. THAT'S the change we will more like see if we split the vote. No one is saying tat Obama is a saint. He has betrayed much of his progressive supporters agenda. But next to the alternative, he is Jesus incarnate.

Ideals are one thing. Practical reality is another.

Nader spoiled (as in "spoiler') Gore's chances of winning in Florida. (AND New Hampshire.) That is a statistical fact. ( http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/lewis/pdf/greenreform9.pdf ) That got Bush in. There would have been no recount, no (right wing) Supreme Court anointing Bush and subsequently no war with Iraq if Nader had not split the vote. There would have been no ruling that corporations are people, no Citizens united, none of it because no one the likes of Alito or Roberts would have gotten onto the court. Thank you , Ralph ,and all those other idiots that split the vote.

The Left's abdication of responsibility in the 1969 election similarly got Nixon in, and dragged the Vietnam war out for another five bloody unnecessary years. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. WAKE UP from your amnesia.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Are you one of the "blame Nader" people too?

That's too bad. Nader 100% supports OWS, believes in a single payer healthcare system and free education, wants to change the election process, get corporate money out of the system.... And you're going to blame that guy? The guy that stands for the same ideals OWS supports? Blaming Nader is a poor tactic and solves nothing. Are you suggesting the only options for president should be the democrat and repub nominee? Isn't that the wrong step to go? Shouldn't you be pushing toward true democracy for the future?

Maybe corporate cash is actually the problem. You ever notice how the 2 people with the most money pretty much always seem to be the nominees? Corporate cash is the problem... not Nader.

Gore won the popular vote still. Blame the system, not Nader.

Also a Goldman Sachs and Monsanto sponsored democrat is president right now... I'm still waiting for the corporatism to stop... both parties work for war and the 1%. The way they work for the 1% is the difference between the parties.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

WE have argued this before. I do not agree that both parties are identical. I abhor the too great an overlap, but also see real, vast and critically important differences in areas that effect everyone.

And yes, I DO blame Nader. He cost Gore the election. We would not be at war this second if he hadn't been determined to split the vote, and idiots on the left hadn't helped him do it. I don't care that he supports OWS. I don't care if he wipes his ass with sandpaper. He helped Bush gain the white house. http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/lewis/pdf/greenreform9.pdf

We should have any options fro for president. WE don't right now. Right now, only one of two candidates can win. We have not done done the hard work of creating another party that has a real, viable, electable candidate. I believe we need to have one, but this election we simply don't. So voting fro anyone other than Obama simply means Romney has that much more chance of winning. Say goodbye to Medicaid. Ta-ta to the EPA. See ya later to extended unemployment benefits and fully funded food stamps. The list goes on and on and on. Say hello to an unbreakable, generation-long, right wing lock on the federal court system and Supreme court.

Yes, I am suggesting a lesser of two evils is the only option right at this moment. But one of those evils is so complete that the other is utopia by comparison. It is hardly an ideal situation. And we need to do the actual work to make a better one in future, build a viable third party and field an electable candidate, before we abdicate our responsibility for today.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Never said identical. Stop using that word.

Both parties work for the 1%. They do the work in different ways. Obama is pro-war. Obama also appointed Michael Taylor from Monsanto to the FDA. As well as fill his administration with Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

If you want do deny the truth about the corporate oligarchy that is hijacking the government... then that's your deal.

Go ahead and vote for Obama, I'm not stopping you or anyone. Just criticize him where he's in the wrong. At least do that instead of denying these sad truths about war crimes, theft of rights, and supporting the fraudulent financial system. He's done some good outside of this. But because of these 3 major issues, I have to speak out against him because on this... I want the wars to end, the financial fraud to end, and real change. And if I'm silent, I'm not exercising my freedom of speech.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I criticize him often, and I have NEVER denied his record of war. I ALSO want the wars to end the financial fraud ti end, and see real change.

And that is the LAST thing anyone will see by helping the Republicans get into office by splitting the vote.

Obama is far from ideal. But comparing him to the alternative is like comparing a bee with a cobra. Both inject you with venom, but the order of magnitude of that venom is quite different. It is that you never acknowledge, creating a false equivalence.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

no this can't be about demo vrs republican

that is a WASTE OF A VOTE

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

What is the "this" you refer to? How is abdicating one's vote helpful? How is splitting the left helpful? How is getting the Republicans, the greatest threat to the world that exists today stronger by abandoning their only viable opponents, a waste of effort? How does spending a total of five minutes to pull a lever to keep the dogs at bay take anything away form the the separate efforts of OWS?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8719) 2 years ago

I can't see why people can't look at recent history and see the very similar situation we were in in 1968, the way the left-wing split it's vote, and the disasterous outcome, which is what got us here and want to repeat it?

It takes TIME to form a viable third party. We don't have that much time right now. To think otherwise is dreaming.

I simply can't understand it. Do we want to lose?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

because the democrats are not left at all

their own campaign so I've heard is about stopping the republicans

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Reply to your post below.

No, they are not in SOME things. But they are in others in ways that really are critically important. The Republicans, however, are unbridled, full on, absolute evil. I believe they must be stopped at all costs, even if it means keeping Democrats in until real changes can be made. Activism for real change is critical. Reform is also critical. And keeping the Proto-fascists, rather than the simply morally compromised, at bay while engaging in both activism and reform is not to be ignored.

As I said, the Democrats might be like stinging bees, but the republicans are like biting cobras. Both inject venom, but only one would kill, and kill everyone.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Two weeks later Al-Awlaki's 16-year-old son, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen who was born in Denver, was also killed by a CIA-led drone strike in Yemen.[38][39][40] Nasser al-Awlaki, the father of Anwar, made an audio recording condemning the killings of his son and grandson as senseless murders.[41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

You said i was wrong when I said they both work for the 1%. Now you're saying I'm right about that when it comes to the wars and financial fraud but I'm wrong about comparing the 2 for the things they have in common. Is that what's happening now?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I always said there was overlap between the two parties. I have repeated that countless times. But I have tried, apparently without success, to remind you that overlap is not the same as equal or even equivalent. To assert that is an unwarranted, counter-factual leap that has no basis in reality. It is a complete distortion.

That's point one.

Point two: Considering that the Republicans will lock in, for a GENERATION, the 100% full-on corporate, anti-civil rights, proto-fascist right wing hold on courts, there is NO CHOICE right now but to make sure they don't get that chance. Additionally, in order to prevent the complete destruction of the entire safety net, the same PRACTICAL - as opposed to IDEAL - choice applies. As with the roll-back of all women's rights. Same with the destruction of Gay and Lesbian rights. Same with the republican plans to put us into ANOTHER recession. SAme with the republican plan to go to ANOTHER war, this one with Iran. And the list (a HUGE one) goes on and on and on.

I am, and always have been, in favor of the creation of a real, VIABLE, ELECTABLE third party. That takes TIME. and SUSTAINED EFFORT. Until that is accomplished, we must keep the WOLVES at bay. That that might mean putting a snapping dog in charge, but the wolves would be no threat DURING THE TIME IT WILL TAKE to build the foundations for a real alternative. Not a pie in the sky alternative, not a meaningless, wasted, and destructive waste of a protest vote, but a real one, one that would mean change in the right direction instead of handing the reigns of power to the most destructive forces in the country, if not the world.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 2 years ago

Very well put. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

That is a good fact and an enticing argument. But how many other electorates would Gore have received. IF Nader, read all his books and am a big fan of his work, was not running during the campaign, Gore could have received enough of the popular vote to ensure Florida Inconsequential. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

You know, The most interesting thing that I could imagine coming out of a third party candidate winning the popular vote is seeing whether the Electoral College would go along with it. I'd say a few states would deny their voters' will. What do you think?

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

That's a good question. One I've pondered myself. Honestly, I could see it go either way. And judging by America's reaction when Bush took office... I'm guessing nothing would be done about it, sadly.

People need to pay attention in the primaries. That's all I can say. Hillary and Obama were not the best options during the primaries. A lot of people talk about wanting change, but no one ever votes for the guy with a real plan of change. Kucinich was the way to go and his voting history proves that as well as the bills he writes. But money pays for advertising and that advertising gets people to vote. And that's why Obama won. That and Obama is a good public speaker and did run on a few good plans, but his best plans haven't passed or he's greatly compromised in the wrong direction. At least when it comes to the reasons why I voted for him in 2008. I'm obviously a Kucinich fan and after Kucinich dropped out he endorsed Obama. But instead of being a hypocrite and backing Obama where he is wrong, Dennis is the man and calls out the bullshit by speaking out against the war against Libya, the failures in Afghanistan, the fraudulent bailouts, corporate ties, and the theft of our rights.

I can't stand hypocrisy, and that's why I speak out against Obama for his actions of corporatism and his pro-war agenda.

Bombing countries that didn't attack us was wrong during a republican presidency, and it's wrong during a democrat presidency as well. That's really all I have to say about that.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I see that you are in fine form again today. {:-])

Yes voting is the base issue - as in being involved and as a start in participating/contributing to our legal system of society.

Opting out just says that I do not care let someone else take care of it - and that has gotten us here to this day and mess.

Again voting is only a start to owning the process as we need to continue in the process of ownership by giving direction to our government no system is perfect but it will ( any will ) do it's own thing if allowed to.

Petitioning ( in my view ) is the continuation of productive involvement and guidance in our system.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Kucinich didn't win so Obama and Hilary are evil?

No...

Hilary and Obama used corporate money so they are evil?

No...

The truth is scary so Obama and Hilary are more evil than Kucinich?

No...

HR 2990 has not been made law so Congress is evil??

Seriously, I don't know if there are wires that R disconnected in your head or if the Apps just aren't there.

No one [NO ONE] could come into office and reverse decades of entrenched RW corruption, cronyism, and 1% Plutocracy!!!

America has neglected democracy for so long it no longer works as it should. We have a lot of cleaning up to do, first. If Kucinich was elected and tried to do the things you think he would do, he would be "stopped." Look at what Republicons are doing, in plain sight to us all, to stop Obama's moderate progressive reforms and repairs.

The Republicons are proving that America cannot pay attention!!

Wake up!

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Congress is crazy. If you don't believe that than you're crazy.

Corporate cash is wrong... if you don't believe that than you're crazy.

Goldman Sachs gave a lot of money to Obama... Goldman Sachs now has execs at the top of Obama's administration. He then appoints Monsanto to the FDA. This is why corporate cash is wrong. It comes with favors and handouts.

While most of the problems we see are due to repubs... the democrats are far from having a clean slate. Afterall just recently they passed the far right Republican JOBS Act which takes away a bunch of regulations put in place after the ENRON fraud. On top of all that this "JOBS" act doesn't even create a single job. It's like saying lowering taxes for the rich will create jobs.

You're proving that a lot of democrats are hypocrites when it comes to what they spoke out against during the Bush administration.

SAY NO TO WARMONGERS! SAY NO TO CORPORATISM!

Party affiliation is the death of democracy. It becomes like your favorite football team with a rivalry and you hate the other team no matter what. It's ridiculous and it's all part of the divide and conquer strategy. And that strategy seems to be working through you.

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

If you don't know the difference between "THAN" and "THEN" then U is CRAZY!!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

typo. Calm down. Is that really the only kind of response you have? How about countering one of the arguments I've made here? Can't do it?

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Seeing the world in black or white, good and evil, wrong or right, etc, is a very dis-likable RW trait, and I find it an utter waste of time engaging it. If you believe as you suggest that Dems and Cons, Bush and Obama are one and the same, I can't help you. But I would identify you as a Con or one of the lost souls (anarchist, indie) in the futile search for the nonexistent (perfection). The war machine, the economy, oil dependency, none of these big entities have on/off switches, or can be controlled by one person. It isn't secret information, it's very easy to see. So what is your excuse?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

All Obama had to do to earn my vote AGAIN, is not bomb countries that didn't attack us. That was my biggest issue during the Bush administration and I find it to be a complete betrayal by Obama to continue such horrid foreign policies.

And I never said both parties are the same. I said they both work for the 1% and war. That is not the same because they do the work differently.

When the ACLU is suing your administration for war crimes... YOU'RE DOING THE PRESIDENCY WRONG

Here's some more facts that you and your blindness can keep denying:

Wall Street's takeover of the Obama administration is now complete. "The mega-banks and their corporate allies control every economic policy position of consequence. Mr. Obama has moved rapidly since the November debacle to install business people where it counts most. Mr.William Daley from JP Morgan Chase as White House Chief of Staff. Mr. Gene Sperling from the Goldman Sachs payroll to be director of the National Economic Council. Eileen Rominger from Goldman Sachs named director of the SEC's Investment Management division. Even the National Security Advisor, Thomas Donilon, was executive vice president for law and policy at the disgraced Fannie Mae after serving as a corporate lobbyist with O'Melveny & Roberts. The keystone of the business friendly team was put in place on Friday. General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt will serve as chair of the president's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-brenner/barack-obama-out-of-the-c_b_813027.html

He supported the bailouts of a fraudulent financial system that is extracting wealth from our country and stealing people's pensions and homes. The bailout money was used by the federal reserve to create 7.7 trillion dollars out of thin air for their own private interest, and Obama has yet to do anything about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BXPINPwp4w

ACLU files law suit against the Obama administration for war crimes... not the first time either.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/al-aulaqi-v-obama

"I'm not disgusted at President Obama personally. It's President Obama's policies on civil liberties and national security issues I'm disgusted by." - ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0610/ACLU_chief_disgusted_with_Obama.html

"The Obama administration’s adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president’s stated desire to restore the rule of law. ... when these photos do see the light of day, the outrage will focus not only on the commission of torture by the Bush administration but on the Obama administration's complicity in covering them up." - ACLU

NATO commander admits that "flickers" of Al Qaeda and Hezbollah terrorists among the Libyan rebels. This should officially classify them as "associated forces" under the NDAA of 2012. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtGe6zk52Cw

Proof of inhumanity amongst the "libyan rebels" as they torture blacks on video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4icorYD_mE&list=FLEwSllwonAZBCc7W3e27_dQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

You are a lost soul who either has no grasp of the reality which our negligence and RW/Big $$ corruption has caused, or you are working for the Cons.

While you bash Obama for all the myriad problems he has no power to remedy in your petulant time frame, nor caused, how 'bout letting us all in on your wondrous alternative.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Obama has no power to remedy?

So you're saying Obama has no control on the wars? Is that really the route you're taking now? If that's true...did Barack not have anything to do with taking out Osama? Damn. That's the one thing I like to give him credit for.

Are you also suggesting Obama did not appoint Monsanto to the FDA himself with Michael Taylor?

Are you also suggesting he didn't personally re-appoint Bush's Ben Bernanke to the federal reserve?

The president leads the executive branch of the federal government and is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States

[-] -1 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

JIFFYSQUID92 wrote: "We established the UN to make war obsolete."

You really have no idea do you? Sorry, but let's simply call a spade a spade. Do you know who sponsored the UN and wrote its charter? Perhaps you ought consider some real research, you know scholarly and academic, rather than mere Google quickies...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

they sent UN inspectors into Iraq several times to check for weapons of mass destruction

the UN found none

and still congress choose not to believe the UN

[-] -1 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

I know. But "we" did not establish the UN. The UN was established by the 1%, specifically... well let's see if JIFFY really knows anything.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

H J Res 114 Use of Military Force Against Iraq - Voting Record Date: Oct. 10, 2002

OH 10 Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich Democratic Nay

http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/12790

[+] -6 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

OK RepubliCon - John Bolton - Troll, why don't you apprise us all of the real secret conspiratorial plot behind the institution of the evil UN??

[-] -1 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

What's the matter JIFFY, cat got your tongue?

[-] -2 points by DSams (-71) 2 years ago

No JIF, I'd prefer you dazzle us with a factual political history lesson.

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[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

"We are disengaged" because our MSM misinforms us, and our politicians (Reps) lie to us, and Reps who tell us the truth are sabotaged and censored.

I feel we are betrayed by our ignorance and gullibility, but I'm not misanthropic. I'm a devout humanitarian or I would not bother.

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Amen brother!

ps; don't drink the water, it's Japanese

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Is the water radioactive? What are the symptoms?

(Some one asked about "Cons" and I had this so I'm sharing.) RepubliCONS! Cons!

Descendants from the settlers who favored English Rule and the King to this revolutionary, liberal idea of democracy, rule by The People. They have plotted and sabotaged our democratic experiment from the beginning and still do today. They, Cons, distrust and fear a collective, a system that serves The People. They prefer an autocratic, authoritarian system that serves the top 1% Plutocrats, today's version of Kings.

Cons suck!

[-] -2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

We have neglected our political system and money has taken over. Even good politicians need to play the money game if they want any chance to succeed at all. More imperfection. But the idea that both parties are the same is a RepubliCon-MSM-1% tactic to suppress the vote like they did in 2010, which got us all those crazy Tea Baggers and Koch Bros pols like Scott Walker!!

Don't be fooled again!!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

Register and Vote! Register and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

Get out the VOTE!!

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

California??

You missed the biggest influence of all..ALEC!

http://becauseican-2old2care.blogspot.com/2011/06/ca-assembly-best-alec-liars.html

Why do they always ignore the ALEC influence?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23978) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Convienience - I mean why muddy the waters with the source of bad legislation and the attackers of the American way of life. That way leads to clarity and the need for a united response. Why would anyone want to do that?

Too Much Sarcasm You Think?