Forum Post: I hate Democracy!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 11, 2011, 1:40 p.m. EST by dugfmjamul
(101)
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I hate Democracy!
- Democracy keeps our borders open which allows for illegal’s to come in with infectious diseases and criminal intentions. One third of the federal prison population is made up of illegals mostly from Mexico. Over 7,000 Americans have died at the hand of illegal’s aliens since 2001, so more illegals have killed Americans than Islamic Terrorists. Our schools, hospitals are over run and State budgets running in the RED because of the ridiculous practice of giving illegal aliens financial aid and medical benefits, including home loans from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac and college tuition free. Democracy even allows non-citizens to register to vote and vote by absentee ballot without a chance in hell of them getting caught, cancelling out a citizen's vote 2 - 1.
- Democracy refuses to put moratoriums on legal immigration and foreign worker VISAs, even during a recession. Diversity is killing this nation, it’s time to be united and stand behind one border, one language and the culture of the U.S. Constitution.
The Day of the immigrant is over; democracy and this Republic can't afford them any longer...DugFmJamul
Democracy refuses to move to the FAIR TAX and put the IRS of out our lives forever. Democracy needs the progressive income tax on individuals to control their behavior and limit personal liberties.
Democracy refuses to bring our own natural resources to market. This is where Democracy fails us the most, by not using all of our natural resources including nuclear we are doomed to second place status in the world behind CHINA and that would be national suicide my progressive foes.
Democracy refuses to end the farce called 'Free Trade' and prevents 'Fair Trade'. Does CHINA practice FREE TRADE? If it's called 'Free Trade' are we free not to trade with dictators, tyrants and non-democratic nations?
Democracy refuses to end the wars in Afghanistan, IRAQ, and created a new war in Libya by a 'Nobel Peace Prize Winner'. Bring our troops home now! I can't remember making a declaration of war, do you?
Democracy has done nothing to end the American Empire. It’s the time to retreat to our own borders and take care of Americans first before trying to be the world's policeman and welfare agency. Our Constitution never gave the power to Congress to turn this nation into a Global Empire or a Democratic-Socialist State, sorry Barack H. Obama!
Democracy has expanded government to the point of failure and unless fiscal responsibility is returned to this Constitutional Republic democracy will be its DOOM!
Democracy has introduced Progressivism [genuine socialism] into our republican form of Government and as a result more and more people are relying on the Government for their very existence. Sadness, despair and the cancer known as progressivism has stricken people throughout the land and lead to the movement known as OWS.
Democracy tells us to shut up and sit down because the majority has spoken, 51% of the votes and Democracy can make US to do whatever the government tells US to do, tyranny. Democracy tells us what ‘Free Speech’ is or what ‘Hate Speech’ is. The last time I looked in the Constitution there was only free speech. Remember people you don't have a Constitutional right not to be offended, so try a little more tolerance in your lives...it works for me...
...a return to Constitutional limits on Government is the answer to the 'Ills of Democracy', so what's stopping this return?
DEMOCRACY!
Good thing we live in a Corporately Run Oligarchy.
You had me worried.
Really, what corporations pull Obama's strings?
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638
Public Knowledge.
lol are you seriously doubting that Obama is controlled?
Of course not, but I would like to see what corporations 'JonoLith' thinks control Obama, I fair question.
You are barking at the wrong tree. I think you should begin all the eight points with AMERICAN CAPITALISM instead of Democracy. Try it. It will bring clarity to your mind.
Please see : http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/keiser-report-209-max/ ...
In the second half of the show, Keiser interviews Senator Mike Gravel on his direct democracy initiative and how it could empower the Occupy Wall Street movement ...
Therefore, please also see : http://ni4d.us/ ..
per ardua ad astra .
Right on.
Here's how you're wrong:
Progressivism as a major force ended in 1980 or before. The "liberal consensus" years of the 1940s-1970s us progressives can take credit for. Everything since 1980 has been neoliberalism. Reagan, Friedman, and free market fundamentalism - including privatizing civil society through mixing government and corporation and watering down institutions and enabling the phenomenon of privatized gains, socialized losses, etc. Prior to progressivism we had the Gilded Age - was that a paradise? It's where we're headed, and because progressivism has been under attack for the past 30+ years.
At this point in time, strict constitutionalism is one of the angles of attack, and, again, the outcome will be similar to the Gilded Age. It is nothing to hope for.
Free trade is not liberal/progressive - it is neoliberal free marketism. I am just as against it as you.
Immigration - I don't have a strong opinion on this but it also falls under neoliberal free marketism.
I'm sure you'll point to Obama-care as a sign of the progressive devil, but understand progressives are just as against it as you. It is neoliberal "market-based" profit-oriented, corporate bullshit. You can blame us for Medicare, but not Obama-care. We would never have done it. Keep in mind the framework was basically produced by Bob Dole - that said Obama is as much a neoliberal sell out as were Reagan, Clinton and the Bushes.
Lincoln, Teddy, FDR, Ike, Kennedy, even Nixon and others were more progressive than this lie that is both Democrats and Republicans since the 70s-80s - they are all neoliberal corporatists. The problem is not government intervention in the market, it is market-dominated government, and that is not something progressives would have allowed.
Progressivism came out of the closet when Hillary said during the debates that she would like to be called 'Progressive' rather than 'Liberal'. Progressive Talk Radio has beaten the drum of Progressivism for years as 'genuine-socialism' with a smiley face.
We are against ObamaCare for very different reasons, you want it to lead to 'single payer', and I want it repealed forever.
What you don't understand is that whatever government tries to do, most of the time it screws up and the unintentional consequences that happen because of government interferences in the free market and personal liberty has caused grave damage to this nation.
'strict constitutionalism' is what I hope for, how can the Constitution be the supreme law of land without it? We are on the brink of failure because of our failure to uphold constitutional principles, abandoning its principles has lead to disaster and despair, not prosperity.
Finally, we must restore the republic and the constitution to its rightful place in government by electing representatives that will uphold their oath of office, not undermine it.
The modern use of the term "progressive" became popular when the term "liberal" was made dirty by folks on the right. Goldwater, Reagan, the Bushes, all helped with this by using it as an epithet. All progressive means is the same thing as liberal did from the 40s-70s - again, liberal, not neoliberal, which is actually what Hillary is (despite what she says), like all the rest nowadays. Anyway, that time as over. I have very few cohorts any more. You guys killed us almost dead. What you hate now is neoliberals. They are the worst of both worlds.
You can call progressives 'neoliberals' if you want to, that's your choice. But my experiences with progressives have taught me they don't like to be pinned down with definitions or direct questions for fear they may be caught in inconsistencies that may bring down their false doctrine.
But for the sake of this thread and discussion, what is Republicanism in relationship to the Constitution?
Democracy left us a long time ago. We live under fascism. Right wing left wing gunk. And you Ron Lawlists are probably the worst. Any false hopes and dreams are a sign of capitalistic decadence.
You are so wrong let me count the ways:
Democracy has not left, last Tuesday in Ohio 'democracy' force the private sector taxpayers to pay for the outlandish salaries and benefits of the public sector.
We don't live under 'fascism' were a dictator governs the nation thru terror and central control. Are you calling Obama a 'dictator'?
My 'rant' is based on 'factual data' and grounded in truth, I challenge you to disprove any of it with the same.
I'm definitely not a 'Planet Paul' disciple and worship pie-in-the-sky Libertarianism. I'm a 'Constitutional Republican' not the best, but definitely not the worst.
'false hopes and dreams' are usually adopted by the followers of 'Progressivism' and 'The Living Constitution' both are based on false doctrine which will lead to false hopes and dreams.
Crony capitalism brings about 'capitalistic decadence' which is a result of government intervention into the 'Free Market' and business.
Restoring the Republic and the Constitution to its Rightful place in Government by electing Representatives that will honor their oath of office to 'Republicanism' will make this nation prosperous again.
Love it or leave it.
OR get your head around http://ni4d.us/ ...
You can't fix the system because it already is.
Democracy left us a long time ago. We live under fascism. Right wing left wing gunk. And you Ron Lawlists are probably the worst. Any false hopes and dreams are a sign of capitalistic decadence.
We do not have a democracy, the US is a republic isn't it? People are elected to represent us by us for us. Of course they are not making decisions that benefit anyone but the 1%. Our politicians are little more thieves and puppets.
We have a 'Constitutional Republic' were our elected Representatives are to make CONSENSUS on legislation based on constitutional principles. If these Representative actually honored their oath of office in theory there would no difference between the parties because they would abandon 'party principles' for constitutional ones...GET IT?
I get how it was supposed to work. I get how it is working now too. The parties are trying secure votes so they can get into to a position to extort money from politicians so the 1% can break laws and do whatever the hell they want.
Perhaps if the other half voted, endorsed their own candidates and participated, they'd have more say. Instead, they cop out and make pathetic excuses not to vote.
Unless you are an American Fascist ... it's NOT Democracy that you hate .. because all you've ever known is a demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy !
Are You An American Fascist ?
cave canem ...
This is just thinly veiled pablum from the "right wing".
He just substituted Democracy for Democratic Party.
None of it is substantiated.
Lol Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Consider re-striking the BALANCE OF POWER between democracy and representation, via White House website sponsored petition: PUBLIC VOTE on the COMPETING FINAL DEMOCRATIC vs FINAL REPUBLICAN vs INDEPENDENT VERSIONS of a CONGRESSIONAL BILL. http://wh.gov/bhC For example, both the Republican and Democratic parties claim to have tax code and healthcare reform plans. Fine, put them in writing. Here the media polls and media talk shows would have something real to talk about before submitting the competing versions to the final decision-making responsibility of We the People.
OWS protesters could act on this SIGNING STATEMENT demanding a PUBLIC VOTE OPTION be incorporated as a new legislative continuing JOINT RESOLUTION. Binding on Congress itself to pass along the public majority winning version of a bill to the President. The legislative precedent being no legal difference between a joint resolution and a bill.
White House rules are Petitions receiving 25,000 votes in 30 days, are referred to evaluation followed by official White House statement. PETITIONS CANNOT BE SEARCHED ON WHITE HOUSE WEBSITE UNTIL IT GETS 150 VOTES. This link, same as above, is only way to initiate petition: http://wh.gov/bhC
Not sure how a PUBLIC VOTE OPTION would work? Sign the petition and find out.
Interesting concept, but then why have a Congress to represent US?
Elected representatives still write the laws, but can't realistically be expected to take the heat for making the hard decisions...when we're constantly told it's ultimately up to the people...the people have the final say...and so on.
The PUBLIC VOTE OPTION http://wh.gov/bhC re-strikes the BALANCE OF POWER between representation and democracy, wherein We the People need to find the maturity to take responsibility in our own lives...as we're constantly told by every candidate for office, in every election cycle including 2012.
You don't understand, I HATE DEMOCRACY! And will not support it in any fashion. I will only support Republicanism which depends on 'We The People' electing representatives that will honor their oath of office.
What you are suggesting is abolishing our republican form of government to reinvent the 'Wheel'...there is NO need. There is nothing wrong with our Constitution, only our Representatives failure to honor there oath of office and the people that kept such representatives in office. Representatives such as Charlie Rangel, the man should have been IMPEACH, instead the people in his district reelected him again. I bet if you polled his district and asked them if 'What is Republicanism?' the majority would say the Republican Party or I don't know. I blame the progressive educational system for the dumbing down of America.
OK by your own definition then it is Republicanism, which has failed according to the 1- 8 parameters in your list. So your thread should be titled "I hate Republicanism!"
If a got a nickel for every time someone said, 'your own definition' about Republicanism I could retire. It's not my definition, review the debates of the Constitution Convention of 1787 and the Federalist Papers 37 - 48.
I'm not smart enough to make up my own definition.
But for the sake of this discussion between you and I, please tell me in your own words what is Republicanism as it relates to our Constitution?
The admission of one's fault is the beginning of a genuine change of heart. I'm not sure if we still have time for subtleties.
From the small settlemnt in Massachuset to what we are right now, the hstory of America is tainted with the blood of its countless innocent victims, beginning from the godless genocide of the true native Americans to the godless bombing of Baghdad. Yet this nation still worships the worthless piece of paper with In God We Trust inscribed on it. I'm beginning to wonder who that 'God' might really be? The dollar bill by itself is already anomalous. American stability? When did we really had one? If ever we had one, it was paid for by the blood of those we victimized, the Mexicans, the Filipinos, the Chileans, El Salvadorians, Nicaraguans, to name a few. The Mexicans are not crossing our border. We crossed their border! Long time ago. By force! Yes, we right now must abolish the old and create a new form of governmnt.
Projecting 'Liberal Senisibiities' on 17th, 18th, 19th and even 20th America is not productive and serves no purpose but to divide America into waring camps.
No nation except maybe 'The Vatican' was not berth in 'blood'. There was no 'United Indian Tribes of America' to unite against American expansion, no the primitive tribes of America made brutal war against themselves, as the did against the 'White Man'...they lost...we won..to hate America because we won is just plan stupid and serves no purpose but to divide US.
The current Mexican constitution based on socialism, where Article 27 speaks of 'redistribution of wealth' and Article 123 guarantees a job for every Mexican...socialism not working in Mexico...why is that America's fault?
Our Representatives have a constitutional duty to stop any 'Invasion', including the Mexican Invasion but they have failed, maybe things will change in 2012.
If you think by 'force' you can abolish this Republic, you have been smoking too much of your medical marijuana. We have a 2nd Amendment, something the Constitution of Mexico has denied its people...force will never work here.
Who hates America? I love America. I love the American people. It's the crimes against humanity her government committed I am boldly speaking against. I'm not sure those crimes are justifiable.
America's greatest sin was 'slavery', all other crimes pale in the face of slavery but for US to heal as a Nation and move on there must be forgiveness and grace...do you understand?
Just think in four short years we could go from the first 'Black' Socialist President in America to the first 'Black' Republican President in America...this could only happen in America....America you got to love her...I know I do.
What among her atrocities is the greatest is debatable. Surely the cattle slavery is up there on the top five. I think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is also a tough contender. For us to heal, I think first must come the admission of guilt. Admission of one's fault is the beginning of a genuine change of heart. Has our democratic government ever apologized for invading Irag when by now we've come to the knowledge that that unilateral action was based on lies? No. We have committed an atrocity against a sovereign nation, we now admit it was wrong, our govt therefore should officially apologize and pay for the damage it did... A Socialist president?? who is that? We don't even have a Labor Party.
We're a representative Democracy... technically we elect officials who represent us... don't mistake that for a republic... and we're kinda federalist too... one government over some more governments... that's not a republic... the authority should be inside of the government, and not by the people... but it should work in the best interests for the people... there's a lot of issues that occur when you debate between the two... and the main question is what always comes up... who holds the sovereignty? and it should remain with the government... but it should work in the best interests of the people... we the people, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Prosperity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America. in the declaration of independence, it states: when in the course of human events it becomes necessary for people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation... That when ever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter, or abolish it, and to institute a new government...
This basically says that we have a right to declare independence if we feel like we have been wronged... that all human beings have the right to declare independence... it's we tried to make the power with the people... but people make too many mistakes, I wish that the government had a safeguard for the businesses, without having to bail them out... there has to be some kind of way for the government to work in the purpose of the people.... the declaration of independence clearly states that once a government stops working in the interests of the people, and their natural laws that are bestowed upon them, that the people have the right to alter it... or even abolish it... and the government doesn't work for the majority of the population anymore... it just keeps on making the middles class poorer, and poorer every day... making us pay a lot of taxes, and the government is now thinking about increasing the taxes so that it could get itself out of debt... 12 trillion dollars is a lot of money... do you know how many Benjamins that is? or think about how many Abraham Lincolns that is... and it's thinking about making the people fight in order to make it big... separating the classes for good... making only 2 classes of people.... the 99% and then the 1%
Look I feel you pain about our current government and the Framers did give US the 2nd Amendment and the 'remedies' it can produce. True, the American can rise up against an oppressive government and even use force but take a step back...are we really at that point? Me thinks not, so the answer is to work within the system to make the Constitution work as it was suppose to do.
Alter it... key word
We are a republic. http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html http://www.albatrus.org/english/goverment/govenrment/democracy%20versus%20repubblic.htm
The southern states tried to declare their independance. Look what it got them.
yeah... that sucked... especially when you get someone who goes through there... and burns down everything, what general was that?
he was from the north
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman
Oh my lord, the misinformation and progressive indoctrination has no bounds and affected even the most 'intellect' of people among us.
Technically we're a 'representative republic' whose Representatives have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, not to advance socialism thru democracy. If you want a 'representative democracy' to 'institute a new government' you need to start the Article V. Amendment process to change our republican form of government to be based on 'democratic' vice republican principles.
Adhering to democratic principles has evolved our republic into some bastardized form of 'democracy' which I have labeled 'phoney baloney democracy'. Some of our representatives [mostly democrats] have used this 'phoney baloney democracy' to undermine the 'text' of the Constitution to mean whatever nonsense that pops into their heads that day.....or what I like to call...SEDITION.
For our Republic to survive this onslaught of 'democracy' the American People must support 'Republicanism' by electing representatives that would best honor their oath of office, not undermine it.
In 1787 most of our Founders, but especially the Framers supported the concept of 'Republicanism'. We must all come together and restore the fundamentals of Republicanism to live and breath into the hearts of our men and women before the forces of progressivism destroy our Republic forever, if the Republic goes so does freedom and liberty.
You're mistaken. We are a representative Republic not democracy.
The authority doesn't come from the people though... it comes from the elected officials... we might hold the power to elect the officials... but those officials make their own decisions... so they have the power... it's not like the officials ask us what to vote on... they vote on their own gut... and their own morals... so... you should think about that for a second... in a republic, defined in a text book, it is: A representative government in which authority comes from the people and is exercised by elected officials... but they're the ones who hold most of the power... it sucks... doesn't it, they're the ones who are able to make laws, not the people, even though we do have the ability to get bills into congress, it's congress who will let it die in committee... so you should think about that one...
well, i guess that there is something to a republic... but how does one ordain power from the people V.S. the government... I believe in Social Security as a natural right, and health care should be another natural right, the right to a home, that's a privilege... the right to life is what health care is, those people up on top has the say on what to keep in their pockets...
Social Security is not a natural right. You can have all the health care you want. Go to the doctor. you want retirement, fund your retirement.
well... you don't want old people on the street do you, and you don't want to have to take care of your parents... do you? and you don't want them dying of smog and stuff like that do you?
i don't, and my parents don't need SS. We are funding our own retirements. My parents will never end up on the streets because they will always have a place in my house.
I will take care of my parents to the best of my ability. That is my duty and responsibility as their child.
that's an honorable thing... but what about those who want to be independent of their own family... that's something that's you should think about... if you want to take care of your family... then you should... but if another person doesn't, would you take on the burden of another?
bad grammar... sorry...
Improper word selection... sorry
I'll finish your thought, "you want to survive, go to hell!"
you presume to finish my thought. you presume that it is the only logical outcome. you presume a lot.
don't finish my thoughts. My thought was finished. That is what you assumed I meant.
It was the logical outcome of your train of thought.
no it was not.
you want private property? take it and hold it by force. nobody "owns" anything, unless they have an army of lawyers and policemen to prove it.
no, actually I have a deed to my house and the title to my car. it is mine. I own it.
until the government decides to build a dam or some such thing and takes it via "eminent domain"
eminent domain is already going away. It will never be gone. the rules and regulations on eminent domain and it's uses are getting narrower and narrower. There is a time and place for it.
And they don't "take it". They have to pay you for it. If they took it, you would get nothing. Granted, it is a forced sale, but a sale none the less. If I did not own it, they would just come and kick me out of my house and take it.
kinda like when a cop asks to search your car. If he is asking, he does not have reasonable suspicion to do a search and has to have your consent.
"I have a deed to my house..."
like I said, private property exists due to written laws and the police forces that enforce those laws... it's not a law of nature. If the government that wrote the laws and enforces them ceases to be or is overthrown, the property changes hands.
The govts authority does come from the people. Maybe you should rethink things.
I but you see, it comes from the people, because the people give it their authority, therefore, giving the government authority... therefore making the government the thing that's sovereign... not the people... you see... it might come form the people, because the people give it legitimacy... so maybe you should rethink things...
I still think the southern states had it right. The took the power away from the gov't. They removed it's legitimacy.
Oh yeah, but there was something else that... was kinda immoral that was going on at that time too... but hey... it's kinda the same things... a battle between morals right now....
no...actually it was a battle of rights. At the time of the civil war, slaves were property and the govt was trying to take that away.
Don't get me wrong, people are not property. But that is a large chunk of what the civil war was about. It was about states rights, i.e. the Tenth Amendment
yeah... and there were issues that were based on economic difficulty once you were to take away the slaves...
Yeah... oh and so to is the difficult stretchy clause that gets into everyone's mind
@dugfmjamul
What do you propose then for the structure of our government and how would your ideal form of government eliminate the "evils" of democracy while effectively maintaining stablility in America?
Simply speaking, its called 'Republicanism'...but please don't confuse it with the Republican Party.
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America is a representative republic. The problem is that our politicians no longer represent the people's best interest. Greed and corruption now dictates political priorities.
True, America is indeed a representative republic a message I have been trying to spread for years now. It's nice to see some people are getting that message. It's very true many of our politicians [they're not all crooks] do not represent the people's best interest, but that can be directly related to NOT honoring their oath of office because Republicanism is the best interest of the people, phoney baloney democracy works against the best interest of the people and makes this nation weaker, not stronger..
When the takers outnumber those that produce, our representatives will be elected based on how much they promise to give. That is the beginning of the end. We are close to that point.
We can thank progressives and their support for 'democracy' for our decline, democracy has eroded most of the safeguards of 'original intent' and constitutional principles of Republicanism, and that is why the upcoming election in 2012 is so important. If Obama is elected to a second term the Republic may be done, and we as a nation will end up just another 'failed' democracy in the dustbin of history.
OWS should be a 'wake up call' to all that truly love our Republic and Constitution, I hate to beat the sounds of 'Doom and Gloom'...but we as a 'free' nation is gasping for air and treading water and OWS wants to make this nation drown so it can be resuscitated as a 'Democratic-Socialist State' govern by 'Enlighten Despotism' and 'genuine-socialism'.
You'll need to be a little more subtle to get anyone to fall for this stuff.
I'm as subtle as a 'bull in a china shop'...face it stuff is going to break and feeeeeeeelings are going to hurt..
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Glad I live in a REPUBLIC!
Me too, but for how long?
if the OWS has it their way, not to much longer.
It's also created some pretty good writers. Never forget that.
Actually, I will give you 'credit' for effort...but whose to say 'Republicanism' had the best writers during the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries...think about it.
I was referring to the writers here.
In reference to our current writing style, I've studied the English style currently in use and it all descends to a certain definite few.
I like a constitutional republic, fuck democracy.
Absolutely, a constitutional republic where the Majority can not roughshod over the minority by 51% of vote. Where a constitutional republic can limited the power of the government by enumerated powers, and the representatives of this 'republic' swear an oath to uphold that 'constitution' that guarantees the 'natural rights' of man given to man by their 'Creator'....can and does such a Republic exist in today's world of 'phoney baloney democracies'?
Please tell me in your own words, what republicanism means in relationship to the Constitution? So far in no one here has been able to do it...you could be the first..please try!
That's the best damn post I've seen on this site. dugfmjamul...I salute you!
Good one.
I am so amused I cannot comment further.
Thank you, but do you think my progressive foes understand the message I'm trying to send?
Not really. Most (not all) OWS people feel that they are right and any other view is wrong. For folks that are supposed to be progressive they're actually pretty narrow minded. It's like the Jehova Witness fellow who asked me what I thought Gods plan for mankind was. I answered that I would hardly presume to know Gods plans for mankind. They left.
Wow, we both have something common...I can get the JWs to leave to as soon as I'm talking politics or about the Qur'an....they don't last even 5mins...ha.ha. and they are out the door and I don't see them around for years...
Yup,well you know the truth is hard for some folks to accept.
Oh yes, the 'truth'...have you ever seen the movie 'The Oxford Murders'? It suggest 'progressives' believe there is no such thing as black and white 'truth', only 'gray'.
But I believe in absolute truth with very little 'gray' where black and white meet on the truth spectrum.
I got your back.