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Forum Post: I don't know if I'm on board with this yet

Posted 10 years ago on Nov. 30, 2011, 11:36 a.m. EST by sujigu (7) from Detroit, MI
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

To be honest, reading the forums here is confusing me. There's a lot of discussion back and forth with a lot of people with different views. That's great, but at the same time, it looks to be like the libertarians and the far left somehow made an alliance, and now you're at each others throats because your philosophies are completely different with regard to income inequality and what people can expect from life.

I know you're all inclusive, but at the same time, I feel kind of at a loss as to whether I identify with the movement even though I am most definitely part of the 99%. I expect Republicans to say that I am evil because I am poor, and that it's all my fault, I'm a stupid college kid, and that I use food stamps and I apparently have a flat screen TV in my house (it must be invisible), and I don't wanna work at McDonalds (I work there now...), but I see a ton of that on here. Have the people who hate welfare on here actually...lived on welfare and know other people who use it so that they're not imagining what it's like and actually know what it's like?

Are you basically just libertarians and you're mad because the Tea Party astroturfed your first go-around?



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[-] 3 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Currently the group is full of everyone (even those who don't identify with any political group) who realizes that there is alot of injustice going on in our country and around the world. People are struggling to live even a decent life, corporations and bankers are more involved with our governments then we are, laws and rights of citizens are being violated and not addressed, etc.

So far, no, there isn't a conclusive decision on the best way to change that. Only alot of people who know that changes need to be made. I don't agree with everyone on the board, and I'm pretty new to the forum myself. But I believe in what OWS is standing up for - the need for change and a better life for everyone.

[-] 2 points by sujigu (7) from Detroit, MI 10 years ago

I mean, I work at McDonald's which is beneath my education level, and I live with my mom who is on a pension to save money, and I'm looking for a job overseas, so I feel I'm being proactive enough in my own life, but I don't see that as an excuse not to question why the situation is the way it is.

[-] 2 points by sujigu (7) from Detroit, MI 10 years ago

Well it's this belief that the "masses" are slobbering morons with credit cards who want the latest Ipad is a bit insulting and distorts the real issues. Of course, it'd be easier to make that argument if people didn't pepper spray each other at Wal-Mart, but hey, welcome to America.

[-] 0 points by JonValle (133) 10 years ago

These boards is a poor representation. Sometimes there are great ideas but a lot of it is hatetred for what isn't understood. If you haven't yet, visit an occupy site and ask questions.

[-] 0 points by sujigu (7) from Detroit, MI 10 years ago

Okay, I can get with money out of politics and maybe greater financial sector regulation like Glass Steagal. I just don't like being called names because I think having healthcare would be great and a basic basket of goods for people is a bad thing. I know it costs money. All the more reason not to spend all of it with military bases all over the globe.

[-] 0 points by JadedGem (895) 10 years ago

I don't know who the trolls are. They don't want to advertise their affiliations. I don't agree with plenty of ideas I see on the board. Its important to remember the board is under attack and has been for awhile. Step one is get the money out of politics, step two is regulate the thieves and con artists. I think most of OWS can agree on that those two things.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

Strange as it may seem, OWS & TP have many similar issues - but the solutions are very different.
The biggest similarity is the demand to sever money influence from government. 56% of tea party agree with 86% of Democrats -
We must get rid of Citizens United

We have a large number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and “explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
Every one of our goals can only be achieved by cutting the incestuous link between washington and money - we MUST start here:

We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple – and that is proven popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
That even 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins! ACTION ----> JOIN US
Our only immediate goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decision Citizens United (2010) , that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons &
have no personhood rights”

We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we only have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.

THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)

If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE ??????????


I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
Simple is almost always better.
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.

OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.

Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.

I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.

Join the Restore Democracy Working Group at
............. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCRDWG
Plan details with supporting documentation at: http://bit.ly/vK2pGI
RDWG regular meeting 6-8PM @ 60 Wall St @ Wednesdays


[-] 0 points by sujigu (7) from Detroit, MI 10 years ago

I mean I heard about it through Max Keiser, but I can't get a good bead on the overall philosophy of the movement. I mean, there's some people I agree with and some people who think like George Soros is going to crawl through my bedroom window and kill me :P