Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: I do not believe the nation can continue to be so politically correct when discussing wealth in this country.

Posted 2 years ago on July 10, 2012, 10:35 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If we continue to bow at the altar of political correctness and never discuss money because that is just “not done” well I think this political correctness, and the keepers of what can and can’t be discussed (FOX news) are killing us.

They shout “class warfare” like true and faithful censors, dictating to America what is politically correct to talk about, well I guess if we are all broke we will be politely broke. We wouldn’t want to break the rules of political correctness.

120 Comments

120 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

6 members of the Walton family have a net worth equal to the bottom 30% of Americans while many WalMart employees earn so little they qualify for food stamps which we taxpayers get to pay for.

CEO's today earn an average of 343 times the wage of the average worker (30 years ago they earned an average of 40 times the wage of the average worker).

22% of American children live in poverty. 42% of African American children live in poverty.

1 in 7 Americans are on food stamps.

49 million Americans have no health insurance.

Corporate profits are at an all time high, while wages have been declining.

I could go on and on. To hell with political correctness.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

I live in poverty

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Millions of people do and unless they start screaming for an economic system that works for everyone nothing will change. There is no reason for anyone to live in poverty in this country.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

For some corroborative links, please also consider :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Thanks. "US poverty on track to rise to highest since 1960s." Very sad.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Very sad" and really quite outrageous !

From the very good first link provided above : "Few people advocate cuts in anti-poverty programs. Roughly 79 percent of Americans think the gap between rich and poor has grown in the past two decades, according to a Public Religion Research Institute/RNS Religion News survey from November 2011. The same poll found that about 67 percent oppose 'cutting federal funding for social programs that help the poor' to help reduce the budget deficit." !!

However the corporate captured congress continuously chooses to ignore The American 99% and I end ardently hoping that 'OWS' will seed and mobilise a 'Mass Movement of The US 99%', which will seek to redress the wrongs perpetrated upon Americans for so long. Work towards this has begun & goes on - irrespective of who 'wins' the faux (s)election' in November !!!

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Well said. :)

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Just when you might think that a sense of 'Outrage' can not be more justified, I also append :

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

food stamps for everyone

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Good idea. Like a basic income guarantee.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

exactly

[Removed]

[+] -5 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

The charts would indicate Obama has more to do with food stamp usage than Romney does...

http://dailybail.com/home/chart-food-stamp-use-jumps-to-record-46-million-americans-15.html

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Food stamp program has been expanded to offset some of the damage done by "welfare reform" of the early 90's, but being part of the CEO class Romney and others like him could end the whole crisis by taking less and paying decant wages, but they won't decide to do that on their own, they will need some help seeing the wisdom of that path, I think. So your statement is just wrong, Romney and the other CEO’s are the most powerful and therefore most responsible people in the country.

[-] -2 points by Thelifeyoumake (-1) 2 years ago

Damage? It wasn't damage, it was reform. Welfare expands because welfare is easy.

[+] -4 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

Corporations do not "take" money. Government does "take" money. Perhaps if the government would "take" less, more people would be employed and be able to pay for their food through their own effort.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Romney has taken 40 million out of the economy over the past two years as his cut just for well we're not sure, but one thing is certain he had no control over what his money has been doing so it sure wasn't for creating jobs. Now he could have taken less and there would be more say for someone who was working for the money, not doing a "no show" job like Romney was back in 1999=2002.

[-] -2 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

If he has earned 40 million, that is probably only about 2 or 3% (if that) of the money that went through the sausage factory and was paid to investors and people employed by the companies owned by the company. The vast majority of the money made helped the lot of millions of people from all walks of life.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

"earned 40 million" how the hell do you do that?

That's like saying a lottery winner "earns" their money, I mean I guess in some twisted way you could say that, but in this case Romney is very clear about the fact that he did not earn it, he did nothing for the money haven't you heard?

[-] -3 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

He earns it by taking a company that is failing and turning it around.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

According to him he didn't even call into the office during the two years in question. How do you turn around a company, by staying away?

[-] -2 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

That was after he left Bain to rescue the Salt Lake City Olympics.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

he was not running the Olympics the past two years, he has been running for office, this is the time peroid I am talking about as that is the information he has decided to give us, so for the past two years he made 40 million while doing nothing but run for office, how did he do it and why should he pay so little in tax?

[-] -2 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

Obama has sent way more auto jobs and General Electric jobs to China using tax money taken from you and I than Romney ever has by accident.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and so how does that relate to what exactly did Romney do to earn his 40 million over the past two years? what does this have to do with the taxes Romney did or did not pay?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You can't mean that he has been living off of charity and the goodwill of others - can you?


[-] 2 points by factsrfun (5902) from Phoenix, AZ 49 minutes ago

I hear for ten years the poor guy didn't make anything at all, times must of been tough in the Romney household. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I hear he has lived off the work of others for most his life..and now he has passed that tradition on to his sons.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Pay taxes on less income than you actually made?


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (5902) from Phoenix, AZ 2 minutes ago

how did you pay less than 14%? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I hear for ten years the poor guy didn't make anything at all, times must of been tough in the Romney household.

[-] -1 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

You make a good point that your greed is such you must envy and covet and wish to take the property of others.

Why are you so concerned with what others have?

[-] -1 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

Congratulations! You must have done very well last year to have paid more than 3 million in taxes.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You make a very good point the world is upside down and something must be done when one person is allowed to suck that much profit from the labor of others!!!

What? wait a sec....did you say that's just a tiny fraction of what he took? MY GOD the world has gone insane!!!

[-] -1 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

What he didn't do is use the force of the government to TAKE money from everyone to waste on the machinery of government. What he did was earn his money as well as a boatload of money for those whose companies he was able to turn around, the shareholders of those companies, and those who work for his company. How many are thriving because of the policies of the President?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

he took 40 million from somewhere

[-] -3 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

Romney paid way more in taxes than you or I did last year.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

how did you pay less than 14%?

[-] -3 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

President Obama has spent over 4 trillion dollars of money taken by force, at the point of a gun, from taxpayers. Romney has earned 40 million ( I will accept your number) from people who have chosen to give it to his company in return for a service.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and where the hell was you when Bush was sending us to Iraq running up that bill that has to be paid now, I say let those who befitted from that economy we boosted, the guys at the top with a 99% death tax after the first 5 million

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

people voted for Obama, in other words we agreed, no body vote for Romney he took it. But that is not the point the point is why does anybody get to make 40 million doing nothing and still pay less tax than people who work for a living.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

WTF are Banking, Insurance, Healthcare and 'High Finance' Corporations doing other than 'Extracting' from individuals, families, 'sole traders', entrepreneurs, small companies, medium sized companies, big companies and even entire Nation States & when NOT being bailed-out by the long suffering, austerity impacted populace - are they actually paying their taxes ?!!!

Furthermore, re. 'Govt. Expenditure', have you any thoughts whatsoever about the absolutely staggering levels of Expenditure on Empire and Illegal WARS abroad ?!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[+] -5 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

You have a choice whether to deal with banking, insurance, healthcare "high finance corps". You do not have any choice at all regarding the money government takes from you at the point of a gun.

I understand and sympathize with your displeasure with the Obama wars and spending. Especially the new wars in Libya and Syria.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

What "choice" do I have but to deal with banks when it comes to 'money' and payments - especially as we all now slowly but almost inexorably move towards 'a cashless society' ?

What "choice" do Americans - babies, children, young people, the middle aged or the elderly really have if they fall ill but to deal with the "Insurance+Healthcare" Corporations ?!

What "choice" do Americans have but to deal with "High Finance Corporations" when it comes to their pensions & 401K's and given The Criminally Manipulated Interest Rates - but to deal with "High Finance Corporations" in order to seek some paltry return on their dwindling savings ?!!

Obomber's is simply The Emperor 'du nos jours & wasn't responsible for Iraq or Afghanistan & whoever gets to be POTUS in November -- Iran will still remain in The Empire's sights !!!

Perhaps you oppose all taxes and the very notion of taxation on ideological grounds but I would sooner my taxes went to Good Healthcare, Good Schools, Good Infrastructure, Good Public Utilities than for Illegal Wars and bailing-out Massive Private "TBTF" Businesses.

IF my allegedly democratic government would issue it's own currency and not subscribe to 'fiat debt based money' from a cartel of Private Banks & IF all The Corporations ("High Finance" or otherwise!) genuinely paid their correct taxes then maybe my and everyone else's taxes would be that much less.

We pay 'Sales Taxes' / 'Purchase Taxes' / 'Value Added Taxes' and a whole lot of other taxes on a multitude of goods, services and activities ... So WHY don't the "Banks & High Finance Corporations" pay a sliver of tax on 'Financial Transactions' (cf "Tobin Tax") ?!!

D'you think that 0.01%er 'Private Equity / Asset Stripper / Vulture Crapitalist' - 'Mittens Romulan' is going to change any of the above for the better by an iota ?! D'you really think that he gives a shit for the trials and tribulations of The 99% other than at (S)Election time ?!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 0 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

Credit unions, private doctors, dread disease and high deductible medical insurance. There are many online stock brokers that charge very little to nothing to keep a IRA. I oppose taxation because there is no choice. There is no such thing as good government run medical care and it will only become worse as the population ages. As far as the too big to fail, they should have been allowed to fail. The private sector is a lot less of a danger than an over powerful government.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago
  1. D'you oppose the very notion of 'Taxation' as a matter of principle or ideology ?

  2. What's the impact on General Level of Taxation of the Costs of Imperial Wars & Foreign Bases as well as The Huge Levels of Corporate Tax Avoidance/Evasion across America & elsewhere ?

  3. Re. "There is no such thing as good government run medical care" - Many millions of people around the world would disagree with you profoundly - from Canada, France, Germany, Holland, The Scandinavian Countries, The UK & (don't have a heart attack now!) even Cuba.

  4. Where & how do ideas & notions about 'Democracy' factor into your disdain for "Government" ?

  5. Re. Credit Unions, I agree and append : http://www.findyourcreditunion.co.uk/home .

fiat lux ...

[-] -3 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago
  1. No, as long as the tax money collected is wisely spent and in line with the responsibility of the governmental agency that is doing the taxation.

  2. Tax avoidance decreases and tax receipts increase as the taxation rate decreases. The fact of the matter is that the Progressive plan of taxation is more about punishing people who make money than it is about increasing the money available for government use.

  3. Those who can afford to leave the government run health care to be treated at a private medical treatment center do and those who cannot often have to wait long periods of time for treatments that we are treated for quickly and that we take for granted.

  4. I do have disdain for democracy. Democracy has always resulted in tyranny. Tyranny is no less tyrannical when 51% crush your liberty and freedom rather than a one dictator.

  5. I am a member.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago
  1. Fairy Nuff.

  2. 'Laffer Curve' thinking though now much discredited these days, could still apply to individuals but why are you so keen to do The Corporations bidding ?

  3. No they don't. That's just US Private Healthcare Corporate Propaganda. Waiting is not a price that most people mind paying and the rich can as always do as they please. Healthcare Costs are the biggest reason for personal bankruptcy in The U$A.

  4. Here we have the nub of the issues between us. I'm a 'Militant for Democracy', whereas you fear being "crushed". "Liberty and Freedom" ?!! From What ?! From 'want' ? From 'ignorance' ? From 'sickness and ill health' ? From 'a lonely and poverty stricken old age' ? Can you be free in such an environment even IF you have pots of cash ? Didn't your Momma teach you to share ? When you stumbled onto "this mortal coil", you still had an umbilical chord - when you stumble off, you don't even have that & to quote 'Maximus Decimus Meridius' - "what we do in this life echoes in eternity" !

  5. I'm glad for you though someone more cruel than I may point out and take advantage of your inadvertent 'double entendre' !!

~*~

timendi causa est nescire ...

[-] 0 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago
  1. Okay

  2. Laffer curve has not been discredited. There are people who wish to dismiss the argument because it flies in the face of their desire to raise taxes to redistribute the collected funds to equalize the outcome of people. The truth is, the people who have produced the money have that money taken to be redistributed to those who have the power to take the money (government employees). Then, the government employees (politicians) dribble a bit to those groups who rely on their dependence to buy votes. If the Laffer curve has no relationship to receipts collected, why not tax at 100%? If Laffer has no validity, why does Obama admit that raising the taxes is not about raising more money, but about "fairness"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4iy2OfScQE Laffer has not been discredited, his curve flies in the face of those who wish to take money from the producers for the purposes of redistribution.

As far as the shot about corporations bidding, why do you wish to do oppressive governments bidding?

  1. Cancer patients don't mind waiting for tests and treatments? 80 year olds don't mind waiting to a hip replacement? Here in the United States, everyone can do as the please, not just "the rich".

  2. If socialization of resources and work is so beneficial and preferable, why not form a socialistic colony and pool your efforts and funds amongst those who agree to live in a socialistic situation? If it is so good a thing, people will rush to live under that type of agreement.

Why does socialism have to be FORCED upon those who must suffer under its bonds? Why does it need to be forced? Socialism is not about sharing. Socialism is about taking and force and power. Force has echoed through eternity, freedom has always been crushed by those who wish to control the people and their lot in life. If you side with government, you side with the oppressor.

  1. I really don't care. If that is all they got, let them pound it out. We both know what we were talking about, and we both know what was meant.
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

(1).We at least agree on the matter of the necessity of some level of Taxation in Society.

(2a). I'm not a turkey voting for thanksgiving and I too have a problem & a great degree of of discomfort with reference to The Onerous Taxation of 'Earned Income' which is generated from remuneration in exchange for work. The basic idea behind 'The Laffer Curve' precedes 'Arthur Laffer' and I try to see 'TLC' through the perspective of working people (people who rely on their salaries & wages) but I do NOT deem it equally applicable to The Corporations and 'Big Business' - irrespective of whether they see themselves as 'Legal Persons' or not.

(2b). The 'Laffer Curve' accepts that there is a notional optimal level of taxation to maximise tax receipts.The curve is most understandable at both extremes of income taxation - zero percent and one-hundred percent - where the government collects no revenue. At one extreme, a 0% tax rate means the government’s revenue is, of course, zero. At the other extreme, where there is a 100% tax rate, the government collects zero revenue because (in a “rational” economic model) taxpayers presumably change their behavior in response to the tax rate - either they have no incentive to work or they avoid paying taxes, so the government collects 100% of nothing. Somewhere between 0% and 100%, therefore, lies a tax rate percentage that will maximize revenue and be most 'efficient'.

(2c). I do not see 'TLC' as necessarily purely a 'Supply Side' Phenomenon. Some economists argue that while tax cuts are beneficial to the economy, they are beneficial for different reasons. Keynesian economics suggests that an increased government deficit - for instance, resulting from a tax cut - will stimulate economic output. This leads some to identify instances of ‘The Laffer Curve’ as periods of Keynesian demand stimulation.

(2d). A relatively tiny but unconscionably greedy & power-hungry few (0.01% / Parasitic Banksters) have us entrapped in their Mesmeric Mythical-Money Matrix, as all righteously earned & received Profits, Salaries & Wages (ie Earned Incomes) are stringently & exorbitantly taxed, whereas Monies & Capital Gains in the form of Interest, Dividends, Rent, Debentures, Accruals, Commissions (ie Wealth & "Rentier" Returns) are taxed far less onerously & are much more easily "avoided or evaded".

(2e). The Privatising of Profit, Gain & Opportunity and the Simultaneous Socialisation & Nationalisation of Loss, Cost & Risk ; The Duplicity of Double-Entry Book-Keeping ; The Tyranny of Accountants and The Dark Despotism of Private Bankers, as well the massive levels of Tax Avoidance / Evasion by The 1% & The Corporations - should be beyond the endurance & tolerance of most fair minded & right thinking people.

(3).You seem to have an extremely dim view of 'Free At The Point Of Use', Universal Public Healthcare and frankly my brain is boggled by this. Again, I repeat : "Healthcare Costs are the biggest reason for personal bankruptcy in The U$A". The vast majority of Europeans from right across the political spectrum have enough belief & faith in 'Their Societies' to realise & believe that Universal Healthcare is fundamental to any notions of "civilised society". Risks are pooled and Resources allocated according to need but of course there are resource issues, especially with Bankster Induced Austerities - but the people are increasingly resisting and standing up for their services.

(4).You say "Here in the United States, everyone can do as the please, not just 'the rich'" - which once my head stops spinning, leads me to repeat : "I'm a 'Militant for Democracy', whereas you fear being "crushed". "Liberty and Freedom" ?!! From What ?! From 'want' ? From 'ignorance' ? From 'sickness and ill health' ? From 'a lonely and poverty stricken old age' ? Can you be free in such an environment even IF you have pots of cash ? Didn't your Momma teach you to share ?"

(5).You are right & yes, we did "both know what was meant" and I apologise for my childish dig :-)

Finally - WE, The 99%, Must Demand 'Perp-Walks' ; The Prosecution and The Exemplary Punishment of THE BA$TARD BANK$TER$ --- without which there can be NO Justice and therefore NO Peace.

BANKS GOT BAILED-OUT, THE 99% GOT SOLD OUT ! 'WARFARE' ABROAD, 'UNFAIR' AT HOME !! 'CARROT' FOR 1%, 'STICK' FOR THE 99% !!! This sh*t can not continue unchecked for much longer ...

I'm tiring and in need of sustenance and but as I note that you have a one line 'forum-post' on the matter of 'Socialism' ( http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-socialism-would-work/#comment-783776 ), so I will seek to engage you more fully on that matter on that thread.

pax et lux - et fiat justitia ...

[-] -1 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

If the organization of the last post looks funny, it was not composed as you see it. The coding of the site has rearranged the numbered list and the paragraph content and I am not going to waste time trying to write it out in a way the site understands.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Btw : How come people who say things like "Taxes are too high" and "Government is too large and and needs to be reduced," NEVER seem to have any questions, critique or even notion of The Massive US Military Empire and its Gargantuan Expenditures ?!

Do such expenses have an impact on domestic taxation d'you think ?!!

If the government of The U$A was truly 'democratic', then its size wouldn't be the problem but as a pissant apology of a demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy is prevalent, whereby there is merely a "Government OF The 99% BY a 1% FOR a 0.01%" - then in the very least, complaining if not actually demonstrating, protesting and 'Occupying' becomes a moral imperative for all people of conscience.

A very real and fundamental point to always bear in mind is that taxes on individual entrepreneurs, small businesses and just about everyone else in society (The 99%), would be lower if Imperial Wars could be ended AND IF the 1% and all The Corporations (apparently 'legally individual persons') actually paid their Full, Proper and Fair Share of the Taxes !

The Banking Corporations in particular are the primary culprits in this 'cult of tax avoidance and evasion' and their opposition to The 'Tobin' / Financial Transaction Tax', is utterly unconscionable given the long term existence of the highly regressive 'Purchase Tax', 'Sales Tax' and 'Value Added Tax', which just about everyone else in society is almost always forced to pay !!

I'm not a violent person other than in self-defence but I'm beginning to have dreams about cutting out a senior banker's cold, dead heart with a rusty spoon & claiming it AS self-defence !!!

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 2 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

be careful with how you say things, the way things are these days you might find yourself talking to the FBI for alleged threats.

ps I know the feeling

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Justifiable homicide? I think you would have many people willing to testify that it was necessary.

[-] -2 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

You are preaching to the choir. Unless attacked or threatened, we should pull back.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

workers make, Royals take

the money flows through the broad's hands and they keep as much as they can and pass what they have to down the line

[-] -2 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

The government royals take and waste more than the private sector does. It the government taxation that threatens freedom and liberty more than any private sector company. Government has killed more people than any corporation.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You seem to confuse the people's government with the inherited position of the 1% and Royal class, it's paying for car elevators that's killing us, not schools.

[-] -3 points by Barack (-379) 2 years ago

I imagine more than one person was involved in the building of a car elevator and those people were probably very happy to have the work.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Do you really think it's an effective jobs program? So that's the Republican plan, car elevators over schools? No wonder we're in a mess since Bush.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

The chart moves right along with declining wages and the Global Financial Crisis would be the cause of the surge at the end of the chart, not Obama. You simply cannot blame him for that.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I don't see the chart, but the turn from growing middle class to shrinking came in the early 80's I believe.

[-] 2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yes i believe you are right. It started with Reagan's trickle down economics, and has continued to this day.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

"Remember The Air Traffic Controllers" should be a national slogan.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

That was the beginning.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Too funny, factsrfun, I must have found a chart but forgot to put the link. Now, I can't remember. LOL!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

np we all know wages are declining, no chart needed, here's a good story if you missed it, I like Diana Rehm:

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-07-17/jeff-faux-servant-economy

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

If Fox and other right-wing sources scream, "Class warfare."

We should scream right back, "That's right! It is class warfare, and we're tired of being the ones getting screwed."

[-] 3 points by myows (133) 2 years ago

The class warfare is actually being practiced ON us, not BY us. That's what I always make a point to tell people. Here's a perfect example --- I work for Verizon, the top 5 executives have sucked 350 million dollars in compensation out of the company over the last 5 years.WOW! That's not a bad payday if you can get it. Last year when the union contract was up the company suddenly cried poor and had a list of concessions a mile long including pensions, healthcare, sick days, etc... etc.... One year later we are still trying to negotiate a fair contract but the company insists on most of the same givebacks as last year. Where is the justification for all these givebacks when the company is prospering? This is class warfare practiced by the rich on the middle and lower class.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

A good example, we had a policy where you could get a 15% bump for any given promotion, that policy did not apply when you got near the top there supervisors could make two or three times what their direct reports made, there should be a law that says if you're a public traded company you can't do that. One rule for the workers another for the “officers of the company”.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

i believe we should draft a new constitution and or a new constitutional ammendments by we teh people and send it out to be signed to the people.

It might include coroporation profit caps, which mandate profit sharing with its workers,

It should include making rent illegal, when someone pays to live in a home, or apartment, they become a co owner to an equal share of it! (This would lower the cost of living b.t.w.)

It might also include a revised "loan origination fee" where instead of paying 4500-6000 to print out some documents and sign it, the government or irs can earn their pay finally by overseeing this. Its wasteful, and doesnt cost alot to print out some papers and sign it, once the documents were created, they should only be like $100 to reprint and sign, but like so many other wasteful and darn right fraudulent things in our society. We the people's money is being scammed. We could be using these funds to redistribute to the people who cannot afford land.k

Another wasteful and fraudelent expense in society is the need to pay the government for the right to drive a car. Its none of their dam business, if my check engine light is on on my truck, and i sure as hell shouldnt have to pay any damn soul if my truck works fine and gets me back and forth to work!!!! Especially a wasteful government agency called the DMV.

Im tired of working to pay other people my money whether in rent, or in my right to get to work, they sure as hell wont let me ride on a horse the way god intended either.

Nothing would help our country more than to let the people keep the money they earn, Shall I go on with the bank overdraft fees??? Or the predatory lending Quit robbing the people in every level of our society!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

there is a working group with a very good suggested amendment they are looking for comments and feedback. In general a complete rewrite requires a convention and I would not trust that process, an amendment presented might be able to get some sponsors and wide support, it requires OWS to enter into partisan politics to achieve such change though

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I don't understand the meaning of politically correct -- isn't that an oxymoron? We have been placing form over substance for too long, much to the detriment of society. Denial by an individual is bad enough; denial by an entire culture is disastrous.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Good morning Tucson! This some background from down the thread, it is getting long:

Thank you for the comment, here I was intending to use a tool the 1% has developed against them.

“Politically correct” actually has an interesting history, it has been pointed out that NOW used it first in the 70’s as a way to draw attention to words like “chairman”. It did not catch on though until 1983 when Howard Cosell said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVScwog05Xw

and people started saying “Why should we be politically correct?” in defending him

I have since come to be aware of how I may inadvertently harm people with my language and do try to avoid it, however

We need to talk MORE about money, not less

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I do believe that eliminating derogatory references to anyone or anything is a good thing, not because it causes the feelings to be different in the present, but because it does not spread the poison of prejudicial thinking to generations to come. Our youth are much more accepting of differences in lifestyle, for instance, than we were. But we have been talking about wealth and the disparity in our economy lately, and it is a good thing. We also should address the idea that we have come to believe that how a thing looks is how it is -- to the point that people hocked their lives for an education, even though it frequently is useless in the real world; or we drive a fancy car that we can't afford because people believe it denotes success, which is all that matters (commercial for a car: "Be the Person the Chat Room Thinks You Are"). Then, when the economy collapses because of all these folks buying too much stuff, there is not only lack of substance in our economy, there is lack of substance in us, and we have no clue how to really be successful at anything. End of soapbox :)

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

That's OK go ahead and rant, there's plenty to be upset about. I think the people at the top treat the rest like a commodity to be used and disposed of. Watch as they come after "entitlements" but never bond interest, they have even issued "special bonds" to the trust fund different than those they sell the banks, so they can default on one without defaulting on the other. We must make sure it's the bank bonds they default on, if they refuse to levy the inheritances tax that will be needed to actually pay this bill.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

I didn't know we were being politically correct about discussing wealth in fact we've been down right blunt in your face honest about wealth in this country

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Money and property must be discussed..and dealt with.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/property-rights/

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

You are absolutely 100% correct with your political correctness stance. When PC started to rise to prominence years ago, I had a hard time understanding it. But then I began to see how it was being used as a way for covering up the truth under some banner of "politeness", "minority equality", etc... What was really going on, I realized later, was that the Corps first, then Government second, realized there was an advantage to it. Under the guise of "let's not offend anyone" and wanting to squelch rising unrest (even way back then) they came up with PC as a way of effectively curbing free speech in the workplace. Curbing free speech makes people easier to control. People who are easier to control make good corporate drones. When you can change the mentality of an entire nation then you are one step closer to complete domination.

The power-elite don't want free speech. They want control, dominance, and servitude.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for the comment, here I was intending to use a tool the 1% has developed against them.

“Politically correct” actually has an interesting history, it has been pointed out that NOW used it first in the 70’s as a way to draw attention to words like “chairman”. It did not catch on though until 1983 when Howard Cosell said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVScwog05Xw

and people started saying “Why should we be politically correct?” in defending him

I have since come to be aware of how I may inadvertently harm people with my language and do try to avoid it, however

We need to talk MORE about money, not less

[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

we never discuss money?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

When was the last time anybody on the cable news outlets spent ten minutes talking about wealth disparity and class in America?

I remember a few times when OWS started last fall but since then, not at all and yet it is what drives all of our public policy. Debate about how "broke" we are (when we have 60 trillion in net worth) or how taxes are holding us back, when the truth are taxes are super low for the very wealthy but we don't talk about it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - let's all be polite civil gentle victims ( oops ).

OH HELL NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is time and long past time to tell it like it is - with full passion anger outrage - and fuck being polite about it.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

The whole english language has been screwed over.

Progressive used to mean forward thinking.

Regime change means a military invasion and coup d'etat.

Extraordinary rendition means torture to the point of death.

Friendly fire means trigger-happy people killing their own comrades.

Collateral damage means a million dead civillians in Iraq.

Citizens United means anything BUT citizens being united.

Spreading democracy means murdering the incumbent government, and replacing them with your own.

I could go on and on.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5853) 2 years ago

Semitic originally referred to things pertaining to ancient and modern speakers of Semitic languages like Arabic yet Arabs and Muslims (i.e. members of the Semitic religion Islam) are often referred to as being anti-Semitic for opposition to the oppressive acts of people mostly represented by those of a thousand year old German heritage.

[-] 1 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

I totally agree the English language has been screwed over. Many of these examples are quite common in everyday conversation

Here are some examples of commonly used phrases that are regarded as doublespeak, and the phrase that people actually mean.

"Using the facilities" instead of going to the bathroom

"Downsizing" instead of firing people

"Reducing costs" as opposed to cutting peoples' salaries or the amount

of supplies going into work

"Preowned" as opposed to used and possibly beaten up

"Well loved" as opposed to old and raggedy

"Senior citizen" in place of an old person

"Experienced" or "well experienced" in place of old



"Detainee" for a prisoner of war

"Pre-emptive strike" instead of unprovoked attack

"Enhanced interrogation" in place of torture

"Person of interest" instead of a suspect in a crime

"Capital punishment" instead of the death penalty


"Take down" in military language instead of saying killing someone

"Restructuring" instead of a reorganization


"A bit shaky" as opposed to of really poor quality



"Put to sleep" instead of euthanize

"Ethnic cleansing" instead of genocide




"Substance abuse problem" as opposed to drug addiction


"Ill advised" in place of highly thought against or a very bad idea

"Being held back" instead of failing or not performing well

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples/examples-of-doublespeak.html

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Please do but go into detail and share it in an open letter. Send it off to the government as a chastisement and copy it off to the social media for everyone else to consider.

Example:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/of-the-people-by-the-people-for-the-people-an-open/

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

I'm an Australian.

Our conservative politicians are called the Liberal party. Go figure.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Your telling me that you are not protesting in Australia?

Send your open letter to government and copy it out onto social media.

Everyone should be involved in a fire storm of protest letters to their government and letting their neighbors see what has been said.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

The #ows movement is all but finished here. Our economy is still strong, and social security keeps most people in a home, and glued to the idiot box. It's very hard to convince most people of what is happening behind the scenes. The politically minded are still ranting about left and right.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

All the more reason to communicate.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Believe me, I'm trying to get the message out there.

We are still in the grip of consumerism, and those who are in the know, don't need telling. I get labelled a fruitloop conspiracy theorist madman quite often these days.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Don't rub it in when you are proven correct. {:-])

[-] 1 points by carlwhitman (1) 2 years ago

What are you favorite swear words?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I love using their terms against them.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good morning frf.

Yeah - it is fun to rub their noses in it - but they are so far gone they just do not seem to care.

But rubbing their noses in it in public can still be good for others to see.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I know the klan, like the GOP will always be around I'm just glad people don't feel free to admit it in public at least, now when the same is said for being a Republican, then I'd say we are well on are way to fixing things.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Todays repub party is very different than the one that created the EPA, and earned income tax credits. It is also different from the one that advocated for the abolishing of slavery, (I know 160 yrs) and the one that advocated trust busting (ending corp monopolies) and workers rights (Teddy! BULLY!)

So I agree people should one day be embarrassed to have been supporters of this republican parties agenda. But I think the embarrassment should be related to the policies/issues they have supported.

Peace

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

More details below, but things really started to happen in 1980 with Reagan and his plan to destroy the government by running the debt up until it could not be maintained, and then the country will have to do as the bankers say, like in Spain today.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Definately. And they also ran up the debt until all we could do is cut spending on services for working/middle class programs. This would hurt the constituency of the democratic party.

and their plan is playing out just as they have forseen it. Onlyb we stand in the way.

Elect progressives. Vote out conservative plutocrat tools.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

This is a Diana Rehm show where these guys trace it back to Reagan as well, they also talk about the servant class, I have been talking about the Royals for a bit:

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-07-17/jeff-faux-servant-economy

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

cool I will watch it later. Washington state can be nicely liberal at times. I'm sure the entire political spectrum exists there but good to see a strong liberal view.

Thanks

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I think Reagan deserves an oscar because somehow this disaster is looked at as some kind of utopian figure by around 30% of the country.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That's the thing the existence of evils need to be openly admitted by everyone. Truth can hurt be ugly be painful - but it must be faced to make any sort of real change.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Yeah that would be nice, I was thinking of a few years back when I saw some guys handing some Klan paperwork around at work, they at least knew that the feelings they had made them unwelcome among decent folks, I saw them proudly portray their GOP status later, when in truth the things the GOP do are just as embarrassing to decent folks. As more people realize that it is evil to try to win by keeping people from the polls, that giving religious nuts the power to make women spread’em for the God peek, or the government protecting bigots that feel if they give you a paycheck they own your life. I could go on but I’m sure you get the point, we have got to stop letting people get away with this crap, “I’m a Republican, but not one of “those”” they are all to blame, we should always be reminding them, till they can’t take it anymore and give up on the GOP crap, then we will be getting some shit done.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes the socially challenged/dysfunctional - products of a sick environment and the victims of a poor education. They never were taught how to look at the world for themselves - only how to take direction from manipulators.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Every time I challenge one of their pat talking points with a real question they just fail open and look at me, because they don't really understand the crap they spew, but in the interest of civility we so often pretend like it's all ok, wouldn't want to upset anybody, don't put a label on it for god’s sake, people talk about being a Republican like it's being a Yankees fan or something, but it's not, being a Republican hurts everybody, and just saying "my family has always been republican" don't cut it anymore.

[-] -1 points by NS88 (-23) 2 years ago

Okay. So how far does this "political correctness" extend? Or does it still apply to race and sexual orientation?

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I do not believe the nation can continue to be so politically correct when the government is murdering people in foreign countries.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Kill the GOP, kill the war machine.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I'd rather see them put on trial for war crimes. Obama needs to be there too. Killing less people than Bush doesn't make murder okay.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

flushing your vote down the toilet doesn't clean your hands either, all who do not do all they can to defeat Republicans are reasonable for every war they start and every murder that results, as soon as you show me that doing as you suggest would not result in even more murder we can move forward but you can't you know that Romney will win if Obama don't you know Romney will commit even more murder but you want people to believe you care about people dying, if you did you would try to stop it, instead of making it worse

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

all those who vote for the bombings and the wars are responsible.

Obama has the absolute power over these wars. They can end the moment he declares them over.

Obama and Romney do not represent peace. You would blame the hippies for Vietnam if Obama was up for re-election.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The hippies threw Johnson out they were political.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

LOL and Johnson was a democrat. They also didn't throw him out as he got elected after he took over the presidency.

The "hippies" were not partisan is what you meant to say.

also they greatly opposed many repubs too. They didn't let themselves get blinded by political parties and focused on who was wrong on specific issues.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hey if you guys had been there for Hilary like I was and Gore Vidal wishes he were maybe things would be different, yes by all means we need to work our asses off in the primaries to get the best people to beat the shit out the Republican in the general, you may become a warrior of change after all.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Well, lets talk about "class warfare". Just what is "class warefare" and who started it.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The first use I remember was by the GOP turning America against the greedy auto worker unions, I remember story after story about how the greedy unions were destorying the rust belt, I would say that was the recent resurgence and it goes on today in places like WI where it's the public service unions that are the new targets, all the while the vast majority of Americans ingore the huge difference between working folks and the billionairs paying for these politcal ads, no wonder working people are getting their lunch eaten by the bosses

[-] -2 points by vvv0721 (-290) 2 years ago

And tell us all again what a great job Odrona and the Democratic Party did of backing the Wisconsin unions in their efforts to recall Scott Walker, asswipe.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

could you give me the link to where I said that, to refreash my memory,. and while you're at it explain again how you plan to keep Romney from winning the White House, or tell me how Gore would of done all the same stuff Bush did, I don't remember you explaining that

[-] -1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

i have been saying this for the past couple years. I find it odd that none of my friends or family want to discuss exactly how much we all make because we are all poor together. wouldnt it seem more appropriate to discuss it so that if one is doing great, they might share their wisdom? instead of keep others in the dark and suffering in their financial servitude? Who pitted us against each other like this? I remember the same attitude existed on several jobs I worked at like it was offensive to find out how much others made.

[+] -4 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

Those fuckers! They've got the cash and we want it! Let's take their money and spend it then we can all be poor without any rich fuckers around!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6622) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Yeah funkin' bastards, we give'em jobs and they want paychecks and healthcare too? Why the hell should we pay enough for people to live 24 hours a day, we only work them 12, let the government pick up the tab for the other 12.