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Forum Post: How will things look once Occupy has some measure of success at getting money out of politics & addressing wealth gap?

Posted 9 years ago on Feb. 22, 2012, 6:33 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

How will things look once the Occupy movement has some measure of success in the next few years? If things go well, how does 2014 look? How is our nation different? And, if we succeed in 5 to 10 years at making real progress on getting money out of politics & addressing wealth gap, how do 2017 and 2022 look? How is the U.S. a different place to live?

We all understand pretty well that there are a hundred ways the movement could trip up and there are lots of criticisms of strategy, potential divisions etc. Please set them aside for a moment and assume the movement goes really well, gets its groove on and achieves some measure of success that benefits the nation. What is the positive vision for the result?

We know in some sense that it's a never ending process maintaining a strong, vibrant and just republic but let's assume for a moment that real success occurs. What will the world be like in 2022 for someone who's 13 years old now? What will the U.S. look like to them politically, economically, socially when they're 23? What I'm really getting at is what will it FEEL like here on these shores then as compared to now?

Please offer your thoughts on this. I'm very interested in your vision of success.

24 Comments

24 Comments


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[-] 3 points by ineptcongress (648) 9 years ago

I am in the process of reading occupy SEC's remarkably well written and thought out 325 page response to the SEC on their proposed volcker rule. the SEC's version is rife with lobbied for subtle provisions that allow banks to continue their malfeasance and financial terrorism. thank god for occupy SEC for calling the SEC out--this drives home the point that the lobbyists and money in politics really are damaging/destroying good sound policies and regulations.

http://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-41-11/s74111-230.pdf

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

Sounds like this group is going to make it tough for industry to skate! Cool!

[-] 2 points by ineptcongress (648) 9 years ago

activism alive,,, it's what the country needed all along and never would have happened if there wasn't great depression.II. it bears watching/advocating because the volcker rule is central.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

This is super cool. I love when people think they're going to get away with something and then the light of day shines in. :)

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

So much for those trying to claim that Occupy is dead and or dying.

Take that supporters of corruption!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

Right on!

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Yeah!

In their FACE!

HAH!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

What's radical is the 1% ruling over the 99% and the 99% sitting there dumbfounded. Thank goodness those days are over.

[-] 1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 9 years ago

I think it all depends on how organized or how "radical" the OWS movement will be. That will be the basis 5 year from now.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

You mean the more radical, the further along we'll be.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 9 years ago

Can't accomplish things when being radical. You know that as well as I.

If you have lived life for a long time you will find out that there always is a certain way things happen and there is always a certain way to get things done.

And if the right path is chosen things can be changed with less effort - it's amazing the things you can accomplish when you can understand this concept. And the strange thing about it is that it can't be taught - it is within the individual to learn.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 9 years ago

Being Radical ... is what builds Awareness ... which leads to Constituency

,,, the right path chosen for one... is but only that ....

it needs to be the right path for many... for the majority....

in today's lethargic world of sensationalism ... Radical is what gets attention

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 9 years ago

If all you're looking to do is get attention (which is fine if you don't really want to change things long-term) then by all means be as loud and radical as you want to be. The problem is that less than 1% of this country is radical in the way that OWS is radical, and the other 98.99% (I'm excluding the very small group that profit long-term from letting this mess continue to snowball because they'll never change on their own) is going to listen first and foremost to the people who know how to walk their walk and talk their talk.

If you want to win over the moderates (or at least enough of them to get a viable long-term hold inside the system) then you're going to have to find people who can couch your message in terms of the values and the institutions that they hold dear. Many of them most likely hold fairly progressive ideas when it comes to individual policies but haven't yet put the puzzle pieces together as far as what that means for their ideological and political stance, and will stay the hell away from us because we're too radical. That seems to be a fairly common trend; people start to wake up to what's going on but haven't quite shaken off the old buzzwords and rallying cries.

What we need to do if we want to take advantage of that dissonance is to redefine those buzzwords and rallying cries. In other words, instead of agreeing that these ideas are radical and new, present them as not really all that radical at all. Welfare for our poor is not about socialism or taking from people, it's a return to a long-standing American tradition of tight-knit communities and the ideal of "leave no man behind". Business regulation isn't a radical attempt to impede free commerce, it's a return to the proud Bull Moose tradition of Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders. Unions aren't evil monopolies, they're the insurance policies for ordinary guys like Ralph Kramden.

What I'm betting is that people are already starting to make those connections implicitly, but as of yet fear to vocalize these connections because they fear being branded communist or socialist and thus (since those are still dirty words) un-American and unacceptable. What I'm suggesting is that we strengthen people's allegiances to the specific policies in a manner similar to what I laid out above until people are confident enough to go out and vote based on those policies, and then provide them a movement and a slate of people whom they'll be comfortable backing.

The only way that's going to happen is if we get our shit together and put some sort of a face/voice and direction on this thing that isn't going to scare or piss off regular people. Rebranding the message takes care of part of that, but the other part has to be handled within the movement and has to do with organization. You need to find people who meet most if not all of these criteria (if they don't meet enough of them, train them until they do):

-People who can cross the boundaries between worlds, who may fully sympathize with and is considered by others (and themselves) to be a part of the movement but has access to and can put on all the trappings of the professional so as not to scare or piss off middle America.

-People with very sharp minds and a background in economics and finance, who when asked "How exactly did Wall Street screw us?" can provide an exact, technically correct answer.

-People who are very good at breaking down and parsing complex technical ideas for everyone to understand, so that they could walk anyone and everyone through the workings of Wall Street and K Street without losing accuracy and still producing a strong emotional response.

-People with insider knowledge and/or background on how politics and campaigns work, so that any political action mounted in the name of Occupy will have a serious shot at success rather than being a sideshow like Nader was.

-People who know how to unify and synchronize disparate elements of a movement so that all of the different arms are capable of working in concert toward a common end.

-People who are willing to get behind the idea of moderate, regulated capitalism and knows how to successfully sell that idea to a public that in large part may not necessarily be ready to hear it.

-People with enough personal authority that when they try to haul the anarchists and the communists back into line they actually can instead of being happily ignored or worse, get into a potentially divisive power struggle.

These are the people you want spearheading any and every initiative you take, and the message at the top is the one you want them selling as they do so. Do those things, and OWS could make Tea Party-size strides in the next couple of election cycles.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 9 years ago

I agree with everything you say. However, you presume that OWS wants to be a large movement with moderates. Or wants to make change through government. That's not the goal. I've been told this multiple times. Where I have been critical of OWS structure and methods because it turns off moderate supporters, I have been told I should find other ways to make change.

OWS ptb is not interested in Tea Party strides or election cycles. They know that the change they want will take a generation or more. To reorganize society.

In my view, OWS is unbelievably selfishly caught up in their own views of what is best. And hopelessly stuck on using self destructive methods.

See the second reply to this, where I'm basically told to move along. http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-a-very-steady-trend-for-occupy/#comment-649211

It's not so much about who stands up to who, the moderates v the anarchists or communists. It's the form of the movement and the structure that is the problem. The form prevents change and encourages endless circles of undecision. As if a direct democracy consensus method of decision making, on any scale, could really provide good results. It simply does not work.

There was a very good OP on this the other day. See the article linked in the OP by sencha.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-tyranny-of-structurelessness/#comment-646982

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 9 years ago

See, ARod1993 knows how to do it. You need to learn from him. Like he said being "radical" will get you attention but no "positive results".

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

I agree. It just has to click and then you, your organization or your country can get its collective groove on :)

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 9 years ago

There are many issues left to resolve beyond those addressed here, and the timeline is arbitrary because attention to issues doesn't equal resolution, only attention. I am looking for an audit of the pentagon and as others see progress, they will end up asking for the same. To me, this is part of the corruption package and as others become familiar with the areas of our government that are corrupt, this is inevitable.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

Auditing the pentagon.... That would be cool.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Yep. Corrupt profiteering purchasing program in support of jobs on retirement as well as receipt of various gifts and considerations. As well as pushing conflicts to bolster the use and sale of arms. Corruption runs deep in many halls of government.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 9 years ago

TODAY - not next year - not next decade - NOW

Various polls show 74% to 92% of Americans want some sort of "money out of politics" reform. Wahington has 12 constitutional Amendments on this issue that have been proposed.
IF WE ACT NOW we can get the money and the greed out of the hands of our country's enemys
OR we can have marches and signs a demands and declarations.


If OWS gets its act togeter - and with unity - pushes the senate and the congress -
TO GIVE AMERICA WHAT IT HAS ALREADY SAID IT WANTS -
all of our goals: jobs, education, medical care, military, etc will not only lack a monied opposition, OWS, as a fighter for the people will attain a status that will build our support like nothing else can.


............BUT IT MUST BE NOW AND IT MUST BE TOGETHER


[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

I'm all for now and together if that's possible. To me, best case for initial results will arise from the momentum created by the following 4 spring/summer actions http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-the-occupy-movement-can-grow-to-100-times-its-/

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Morning rising.

I agree. Plan for later and act now, whenever and where ever possible.

So stop by and act: http://occupywallst.org/forum/osta-first-we-had-one-then-two-sponsors-for-the-on/

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 9 years ago

Right on!

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

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