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Forum Post: HELP ME OUT HERE: How do we kick this baby into high gear?

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 7, 2012, 8:06 p.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

richardkentgates put it this way in a comment on this forum today:

"This is an information war. People have become complacent because they are unaware. Unaware of the problems, unaware of the right to stand up, unaware of why they should stand up, unaware of how to stand up. Become a soldier in the war for minds." (end of richardkentgates quote)

I'm very interested to know what people think about the best ways to spread the word to the most people in the most persuasive, efficient and effective way in order to win this information war.

Think about the Walmart strikes on Black Friday and how much that penetrated the mainstream press and was the talk around some break rooms, water coolers and dinner tables across the country. Think about how Occupy exploded across the nation and the world in a matter of weeks after being just a small group of people in a park on September 17, 2011.

Think about how Gandhi and his fellow citizens used the press to beat the British without lifting a sword. Think about how those who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. won rights for countless citizens for generations without violence and befuddled the their opposition through their use of nonviolent resistance (and the resulting tension) and skillful use of the mainstream press.

Think about this quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. in his letter from the Birmingham jail:

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. . . The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."

Think about what went right and wrong with the WTO protests. Think about the urgency of the environmental situation on so many fronts. Think about how quickly corporations are seizing more and more power in every realm. And also think about the power of the human spirit to triumph and how the "arc of the moral universe bends towards justice," as King put it.

Keeping all that in mind and going beyond taking appropriate actions in your own life consistent with your beliefs as an individual, what can we who see the urgency do to spread the word of the danger of the corporate takeover? What can we do TOGETHER in groups to more efficiently, persuasively and effectively spread the word to 10 times, 100 times, 1,000 times the number of people so that they too speak up and rise up?

PS - My personal view is that this is step one http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ but LOTS of hard work and details involved. The reason I focus on those 8 aren't because they're the end all be all but because they would help get the corporate foot off our necks long enough that we could breathe and organize to take even more important and transformative action. I also advocate for aggressive nonviolent direct action but of course this could only take place if the detailed legislation were put together in bulletproof form (civil rights movement was very careful about not leaving an easy out to the opposition on technicalities.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe other things have to happen first. The big question is: HOW DO WE MAKE THE AMAZING GROWTH OF OCCUPY LAST FALL LOOK LIKE IT'S SMALL? How do we reach 10 times, 100 times, 1,000 times the number of people and get serious results?

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134 Comments


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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

First, I think Occupy is responsible for changing the conversation in this country over the past year. Everyone, including MSM, talks about the 1% and the 99% and the lack of distribution of wealth and corporatism, Wall Street greed, etc. The problem, though, is that Americans have not reached the point of suffering that would get them out on the streets in bigger numbers. This is largely because the money is still being manipulated and we just haven't reached that point yet.

Second, I think Occupy was most effective when it had its actual occupations. The camps provided a visual and we saw people sacrificing and we could read the placards, and a real community formed in all of the places where the occupiers camped out. Then, that was quashed by local governments and I really believe that was a big set back for the movement.

In the end, Occupy is an idea first and foremost. It is about issues and what issues need to be dealt with. It is a social movement through which political change will follow. How to spread the ideas is the big question and I, unfortunately, am not qualified to answer that. Trying to wake people up who have overdosed on unisom is not easy. I do think we have made some headway though, in how the conversation has changed, and I do think more and more people are listening.

Perhaps Occupy, now that a year has passed, could re-write the Declaration of the Occupation. Clean it up. Write up, not just the issues (ie. You've taken our homes) but write up solutions that Occupy would like to see.

Also, when it comes to the issues I push hard from the left because if you push hard from one side you might get something for the people. If you just ask for what you think you might get, you will likely not get much.

Finally, I see Occupy as a movement that really pushes the envelope very far, very avant garde to bring about whatever change it possibly can in a very reactionary society.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Sounds like you have an excellent understanding of what we are doing.

We will continue growing, because the problems have not been resolved, and although the encampments have gone for the most part, "you can't evict an idea" and we have gone on to occupy the national discourse.

There is nothing the people united can't accomplish.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

Well said.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Honored to serve in the battle with you.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

Same here, :)

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

'Occupy is an idea first and foremost. It is about issues and what issues need to be dealt with. It is a social movement through which political change will follow.' indeed & I think that all such truths deserve repetition, often! Thank you for an excellent comment. I too think that physical occupations need to start again but not so easy to do in winter. Occupy Spring! Never Give Up! - but occasionally, hibernation is allowed, lol. Solidarity & http://www.nationofchange.org/live-stream-wall-street-occupation-1316970901 .

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

Solidarity to you too, and thanks for the kind words and the link. The physical occupations were key, but if we can't get them back then we need to figure out other ways to be effective. The idea continues to grow of a society that is fair and just to all people, that has an economic system that treats all people fairly and a society that is not callous and shallow. We'll get there, it just may take a while.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Because the physical occupations were so important that is exactly why they were shut down. I hope we can go back to them and also engage in effective direct actions in the new year. Pushing for a fair and just economic system is so sensible as to be obvious but, like them, 'callous and shallow' is how they want us to be too.

Thanks for all your good efforts and here's why we do what we do - 'Inequality and Poverty American Style' - http://www.nationofchange.org/inequality-and-poverty-america-style-1354976402 - a really gut wrenching but very necessary read. Never Give Up Occupying The Truth! Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

Thanks for that great article. I could almost quote the whole thing, but to focus, I'll say this, our academics have failed us miserably here in the U.S. The intelligentsia in this country is fully lacking as they have imbibed Americans in the virtues of capitalism, corporatism, materialism and nationalism blindly without consideration of the consequences of doing so. Most academics are followers, they have joined the club, so to speak, and it is the rare person like Chris Hedges, David Graeber, Cornell West and Noam Chomsky who are courageous enough to speak real truth to power.

Note, the author of this terrific article is British. That happens a lot and I guess that's why I'm thinking about this.

I would love nothing more than to see Americans re-occupy the spaces that belong to them for whatever reasons they choose are important to them. It boggled my mind last fall how people sat back and allowed local governments to degrade them of their right to protest. It's all in the brainwashing.

I also think some of the American blind nationalism that allowed us to get into this situation we are now in is quite similar to the parent, who thinks the sun rises and sets on his/her child. Because of this biased view of the child as an angel, there is no discipline or constructive criticism even though the kid is really a brat.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Lol! That the US acts like a spoiled brat is something I have thought for a longer than I care to admit but sadly we are a very bad bully too. I hadn't realised that the author was British, but perhaps very few american journalists or academics would risk their tenure to say something like this from the article -

'Increases in poverty and inequality are of little concern to those pulling the American political and economic strings; the corporate leaders, financial magnates and business tycoons, sitting pretty in the 1% club lounge with all benefits from preferential tax arrangements and access to congressmen, senators, presidents and administration staff. Jeffrey Sachs, Director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University, claims in "Why Poverty" that “there are many bought politicians in Washington.” The present day merchants & traders - the hedge fund managers, brokers, CEO’s of major corporations - are bought by the rich, such as David and Charles Koch. Estimated to be worth $62 billion, they have donated funds to over half the members of the Senate and the House of Representatives and ploughed millions of dollars into 230 university colleges to promote courses, which support their ‘free’ market ideology. A ‘free’ market, in name only, skewed off, which they and their cronies have overwhelming control.'

We, the 99%, it seems, need leadership and people like Hedges, Chomsky and West will always speak in support but we must also keep communicating our dissent against the prevailing ideas which have bought us to the situation described in the article. We must start organising from the bottom up in new and imaginative ways.

OWS is so important because it has highlighted issues that have been silent for too long in our country such as our govt. being owned by bankers and the corporations. Most americans still have little or no idea how we got where we are because we lack education, analysis and leadership.

Given what we have said in our exchange here, I really think you and others will appreciate this link - http://www.nationofchange.org/blogs/lawrence-davidson/nationalism-vs-capitalism-1342887645 - from which - 'We are trained from childhood to behave like this. Remember temper tantrums? When our children throw them they soon learn that it doesn’t work. As adults we seem to have carried over the lesson. Relatively small numbers of us do occasionally loudly protest our situation, but with rare exceptions what do we learn? It doesn’t work. Perhaps we should try harder.'

Never Give Up! Go Occupy!

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

The U.S. acts like a spoiled brat, and it's parents, We The People, must stand up and discipline and teach. Come on folks!

Another great article, thanks. What is really going on here in the really big, broad, extended picture is that the United States, the West, and the rest of the world is coming to terms with the end of the Industrial Revolution that came out of the Protestant Reformation and the legacies of capitalism and nationalism which are still hanging around today.

These two are becoming antiquated, they no longer work in this new age of technology and globalization and the growing pains and turbulence that we are feeling right now are really the beginnings of a watershed historical change toward something new.

What it is I do not know, but the current economic, social and political systems are not working. They are not working for the majority of people and they are not working for Mother Earth. I predict this change will take a long time as have most watershed and momentous periods in history, but the change will be big.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Many thanks for this clear headed comment which I really like as your comment leads to real reflection. I completely agree with VQkag's reply to your initial post on this thread, to which I too commented. You speak of changes that are upon us and on the way. I too feel this & am grateful for your insights. here.

Capitalism - 'is the world’s prevalent economic system. It is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. Wage labor is an important element on the cost side of the capitalist ledger. So are things like safe working conditions and worker benefits. The capitalist impulse is to minimize costs in order to maximize profit. Left to themselves, capitalists will pay workers (white collar or otherwise) the lowest possible wages and deny or minimize other benefits. They will ignore worker safety and deny any responsibility for worker health. The only reason these important aspects of the work place prevail is because of the pressure put upon the capitalist system by unions on the one hand, and government regulatory agencies on the other. If you want to maximize the probability of economic breakdown, just destroy all effective government regulation of the economy and outlaw unions.' - from - http://www.nationofchange.org/blogs/lawrence-davidson/nationalism-vs-capitalism-1342887645 .

Please Never Give Up Occupying The Issues and 'Explicating' :) Keep Occupying A Better Future For The Kids! Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

Capitalism is a failure and we don't have to "love" it just because it is our economic system and we're filled with self-indulgent hubris for our nation.

When corporate profits are at an all time high at the same time that wages are at an all time low and the government does nothing to help the people out of this quagmire, neither capitalism nor democracy is working. Blind nationalism has rendered both a miserable failure.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc

Occupy a living wage and a fair economic system for all people!!!!

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

'When corporate profits are at an all time high at the same time that wages are at an all time low and the government does nothing to help the people out of this quagmire, neither capitalism nor democracy is working. Blind nationalism has rendered both a miserable failure.' = succinct and very beautiful words about a seriously ugly matter. Thank you for the excellent link and one in return on the same subject - http://www.nationofchange.org/washington-fiddles-over-fiscal-cliff-real-battle-over-inequality-happening-heartland-1355235939 . Never Give Up Working For A Beautiful World & Articulating Our Plight! Occupy The Truth! Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

I can't help but wonder where the outrage is until I realize that the level of brainwashing has been so severe in this country. We must occupy the truth, yes A4C. It is imperative.

It is very hard to admit that someone or something you love is flawed, but if you don't the situation only worsens. How much worse can it get? I really don't want to find out.

From your link: "The result has been a degree of inequality this nation hasn’t witnessed since the days of the robber barons of the late nineteenth century – an inequality that’s harming our economy as much as it’s undermining our democracy."

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

'With a shrinking share of total income and wealth, the middle class and poor simply don’t have the purchasing power to get the economy back on solid footing. (The wealthy don’t spend enough of their income or assets to make up for this shortfall, and they invest their savings wherever around the world they can get the highest return)'.

'As a result, consumer spending — fully 70 percent of economic activity — isn’t up to the task of keeping the economy going. This puts greater pressure on government to be purchaser of last resort'.

'The dilemma isn’t just economic. It’s also political. As money concentrates at the top, so does power. That concentrated power generates even more entrenched wealth at the top, and less for the middle class and the poor.'

The three paragraphs above are also taken from Robert Reich's article and I'm having a moment of deja vu right now with my own numbers, lol.

Our level of 'outrage' is probably directly proportional to how much we care and inversely proportional to how much MSM we consume, because the same corporations are involved in our perception control as are responsible for our stolen democracy and resultant penury. Never Give Up Exposing The Facts! Go Occupy! Anyone who wants to see OWS's purpose, should scroll to the top & read the 1st comment :)

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

That is exactly true re: the media. Thank god for the internet. LOL.

Also, our problems are deeply rooted, nestled in our souls, really. We can make demand after demand, but if the nation's heart does not change regarding what is priority, I am afraid that will all just be small band-aids over a gaping gash.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

OWS no option but to continue and try to step up actions in the new year. I believe that societal change IS possible but the forces arrayed against the 99% are intimidating although not omnipotent. We must continue the struggle as not to do so is to lose all sense of liberty, equality and fraternity and indeed our basic humanity. The internet is integral to the exchange and proliferation of ideas - which is exactly why they are so desperate to control it. We are our own media and 'The medium is the message' as was famously once said. We struggle for a better tomorrow for all because we have no other option.

http://www.nationofchange.org/obama-s-grassroots-supporters-demand-jobs-not-cuts-1355241469

Never Give Up! Occupy The Message!

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20442) 1 year ago

"We must continue the struggle as not to do so is to lose all sense of liberty, equality and fraternity and indeed our basic humanity."

Amen.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Continuous process improvement is what I see happening in all Occupy movements - a will to grow and be continuously more effective - Day by Day.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Spare the rod - spoil the child.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Physical occupations have huge positive impact but very challenging in terms of energy and resources. These definitely should rise again when feasible.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Agreed and the above NoC OWS link is very handy for accessing OWS News Articles. Never Give Up! Go Occupy!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks for the link.

[-] -3 points by UnFriendlyObserver (-32) 1 year ago

"Occupy is an idea first and foremost"

What idea would that be ?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That the well being of corporations should come AFTER the well being of humans. The system should be serving us. We should not be serving the system, feeding ourselves to it. The rest is all just blips on a computer screen. Here. Watch this short video of interview on national news. Watch all the way through. The end is the kicker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] -2 points by UnFriendlyObserver (-32) 1 year ago

thanks for the link.. I was til 2:30 am watching Chris Hedges on video ..

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

He's good. So is Chomsky. If you haven't seen the film Manufacturing Consent, check it out. Extraordinary.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We are growing in supporters and the news of what we are about is getting around.

Can't you feel that eerie quiet?

That electrically charged feeling of calm ready bust loose into action?

Conversation has changed - politicians are talking about some of the actions that need to be taken the ones OWS and all of Occupy have been pushing.

Energy and awareness is building - it is kinda scary right now cause it is going forward in that eerie electrically charged silence that precedes a real downpour.

I do believe - that we continue on as we have over this last year.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ahhhh...... Now that you mention it.... It does kind of feel like that calm before the storm...... When the streets are empty and then... http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-mad-as-hell-and-im-not-going-to-take-it-any-mor/

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

lol - Be careful out on the streets - carry an open umbrella and hope it provides enough deflection as people start hurling things out of their windows.

[-] 2 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Separate from partisan politics and recognize the peoples need while also being inextricably immersed in legal process which is at the foundation of the nation.

Article V

Constitutional intent IS to enable the people through government, to meet their needs, survive and adapt.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Firstly, I think RKG put it very well. I am in total agreement that we have to become soldiers in the war of minds. In my opinion Occupy must become the core of a new revitalized intellectual left, which means we must become intellectuals. How do we do this? With one hell of a lot of reading, thinking,and practice in articulating our message - both verbally and in writing.

At the same time, I think we must also recognize that since even under a Democratic administration Occupy was met with state violence for asserting our right to public space, we must help push the political spectrum to the left through supporting those politicains and political candidates who agree with our agenda, in any way we are able.

These two things seem to me to form the core of what we must do at this juncture to keep moving forward.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's awesome. Of course no one person can offer "the" comprehensive approach but I think you've offered a common sense way forward that will genuinely help move us towards real revolution of the mind and awakening of consciousness that will transform our world and life on the ground over the next decade.

[-] 6 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I don't believe there is any comprehensive approach - quite the opposite - I believe that considering the complexity of modern times, and the unprecidented rate at which things evolve politically, economically, environmentally, etc., we need to remain as flexible as possible, both in tactics and in theory; the single 'bottom line' being that we remain active and stay true in our hearts to our original humanitarian principles.

That flexibility, I think, will enable us to stay at the cutting edge of events.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

At the same time, I think we need to spread the word about the danger of the ongoing corporate hijacking of the American political system by all means possible. On top of that, and perhaps most importantly, others of us need to push like hell from the outside. The pressure from inside and out could help unseat the corporate bloodsuckers from our hijacked republic. This is a damn good country and we're out here fighting for it. Oddly enough, we Occupiers, as Chris Hedges so aptly put it, are the true conservatives. It's us that wants to restore the rule of law.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

We all have a mind. We must use it in assertaining where at the moment the dam is weakest. At the moment we in Ameica have been forced into the existing political process by the ruthless crackdown on the Occupy movement. Therefore it seems, at the moment, that we must push Independent and Democratic candidates who support our agenda, particularly Independant candidates along the line of Bernie Sanders. That would give the Democrats a wake-up call. Also, we shouid run Occupy candidates in local elections. That would be huge . . . to start electing Occupy candidates at any level would be a huge wake-up call that we must be taken seriously as a political force.

If we can achieve these things then larger possibilities will open up. For now we should, in my opinion, jump headlong into the realm of established politics and knock some heads around. As the last election showed, people power can incrementally overcome corporate power in the political arena, but only if we realize that this is a war, that it requires total commitment for the long term. That is the Only way to defeat the tremendous power of consolidated wealth. We must realize that this will be the work of many years.

[-] -2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

So long as the right is ostracized, no true and sane Republicans will run for office and the imbalance in our government will continue. Imbalance leads to crisis after crisis and leaves the door wide open the the 1% who promise political and financial support. With balance and a public that is satisfied with their representation, there is little need for Big Money thugs. Balance is what we should seek, unless strife is what you seek.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Could you please reduce that statement into something intelligible?

[-] -2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

I'm not sure how much explanation is required on the importance of balance. Our separation of powers is based on the very concept.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Agreed. What I am suggesting here is merely fluidity. As you said in one of your posts it is a matter of hopkido, and hopkido is above all a thing of fluidity.

How long did it take Ghandi to free the Indian people? We must be willing to educate, to adapt, and most of all to stay active and have patience.

These are hard things, they require disipline, but there is simply no other fight that matters now. We are fighting for our survival, and the survival of life on earth. Therefore we must push fluidly, relentlessly, cunningly, for as long as it takes until we prevail.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

We're going to have to find a way to spread the good word further to the mainstream and unify so we can gain more strength. Right now we're fighting with two hands tied behind our backs and dragging a couple of rocks because we're not unified. The 1% has kept us in their grips this long because we the 99% have not realized how much we have in common. If we woke up and realized that there is more that joins us than separated us, we could begin to make decisions from a position of unified strength rather than making demands from a position of divided weakness.

It's all possible. It's all within our grasp. But we have to collectively wake to see the reality that is our true strength. It's unnatural for 1% to rig the game to benefit only them while the 99% sit by silently staring at their televised, scribbling down items to consume as the commercials roll on... We need to wake the fuck up!!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

While we're at it, I may as well say that in my view the battle here never really ends. The nature of this world is paradox. We are trapped between good and evil. It is a question for us as individual spirits which choice we make, whether we chose love and truth, or hatred and lies. The outcome is not for this world alone, but for each of us as souls.

Don't stake your claim here exclusively. That is my belief. The battle here on earth, it seems, will never be decided conclusively.

All we can do is empower those elements of divinity that we see through a glass darkly, and through this I glimpse a glorious hope.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think that's a great way to look at it and probably pretty close to the truth.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Check out this short video when you have a chance. A joy to watch when you want to be inspired and feel a shiver of excitement run up your spine: http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-mad-as-hell-and-im-not-going-to-take-it-any-mor/

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

The success of last fall is infinite the ball is rolling. So many are reaching out in the areas that concern/appeal to them on personal levels. I too wonder of this question because current conditions are severe and appear bigger than actually can be. For one thing talking wars and fight implies a possible outcome other than the victory that WE have already. Be the position and assume the power rather than giving it toward that WE would have gone and then just remove D.C. Fed from the equation and get it on in these United States of which it is not. Lovin' you

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

I think I know how. http://occupywallst.org/forum/beat-them-at-their-own-game-the-99er-conglomerate/ This relatively simple plan has huge potential. Please comment there to push it to the top. Everyone should see it.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I've been trying to talk about this, reaching more people. It takes very real marketing practices, the same kinds which every single big name company duplicates. Have a fleet of ships but also have a "tanker" as you put it, a flagship. The mass can't comprehend every ship, but they can keep an eye on one. This is what needs to be consistent or else they will loose grip and drown in the super storm of propaganda. For the mass you need effortless communication, everything needs to be easy.

I just don't understand why you blow me off and insinuate that it isn't practical. If you really think this is something we need then why do you keep putting me down for trying?

Think about it. You can't just say the mass should unite and they will, because they're not even listening. They're playing video games, raising families, and putting all their faith in the government to know what's best. They feel safe under this razor wing. They don't trust uncertainty/occupy and they'll watch anything with morbid facination, including their own molestation. If you're going to get through to them you absolutely have to appreciate the condition they're in.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Not sure I understand what you're referring to above. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice. It's just that it's a real challenge in light of the fact that OWS is a leaderless movement. I agree messaging is important.

[-] -1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Messaging? Didn't i say marketing?

We're talking about the mass, reaching more people, how that is possible and why on earth you keep trying to avoid the actual conversation. Just nevermind, i'll leave you alone.

[-] -1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Not avoiding it at all. I'm here conversing with you. But for some reason you aren't willing to accept that the fact that Occcupy is leaderless makes it a bit challenging to create one unified message.

[-] 0 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

You didn't put it that way before. I've said that about marketing, that you can't have an opinion because people want their own opinions, even if they agree. I'm talking about reaching more people, appreciating the condition they're in, that you'll need a flagship and better marketing at least.

A unified message wouldn't be difficult either because there are things we know for sure and the more simple it is the better anyway. Let's pretend it's difficult, and that you want to reach more people. Because it isn't easy you're not going to. Don't write things off based of difficulty, worry about what needs to happen.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Why do you equate acknowledging something is very difficult with giving up? I'm suggesting very strong interim nonviolent action that would focus national attention on some key issues. I think communication (especially through nonviolent direct action) is one of the keys because once we get out into the world and communicate with others, we start realizing that we have more in common than we have separating us.

Once that clicks, we'll realize that we actually ARE the 99% and that it's been absurd to have the system rigged to benefit just the top 1%. Once that realization sinks in, we'll be able to stand up together and make decisions from a position of united strength instead of making demands from a position of divided weakness.

Here are the 8 interim goals I'd personally like to see us pursue along with some tactics. http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ They aren't the end all be all, but they'd be a good start to help unseat the corporate forces that have hijacked our political system. The trick is getting enough people behind them and pushing (perhaps using methods similar to those employed by King and Gandhi).

Of course there are lots of details and action steps to fill in on my link above but you get the idea.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Consider this, that right now we don't have Gandhi. Right now is different. Right now we have the internet, and a flagship is just like a leader, it's something to stand behind and physically push. How can we reach more people, without something to hold on.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Everything helps and that's good work. Now what about the internet, the most powerful communications device ever created? That most people live and breathe by it these days, and they don't care about anything else. Moral denial is no sweat compared to the daily routine and comforts of modern vices.

Imagine if Sony tried to launch an advertisement campaign through nothing but word of mouth. Imagine if their only presence on the internet was scattered on various websites with nothing attractive, simple or consistent. Overwhelmed by uncertainty, if not obscurity.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I don't think you understand. I would love a unified message. Yet I realize that in this case the downside outweighs the upside. The reason Occupy got so big so fast and couldn't be taken out is that there was no one leader who could be attacked and undermined for human qualities / flaws. You and I and everyone else how easy it is to do character assassination.

Plus there's a bigger thing you're not getting. Occupy is a leaderless movement. That means if you want to do what you're saying, you should do it. But you can't call out and suggest "Occupy" should do x or y as though you're petitioning a government body or corporation. Occupy is you bullfrog. Occupy is you. See what I mean?

So, what I'm saying to you is, "Right on. Go for it. Get that unified message out and work with like minded folks to make it happen." I'm not disagreeing with you that clear message is important and helpful. I'm all for it. But you have to also get what Occupy is before you start saying what "it" ought to do.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Oi, you keep twisting this. I totally understand that occupy is leaderless. I've also promoted that it stay leaderless when people have said it shouldn't be.

You said "I'm very interested to know what people think about the best ways to spread the word to the most people in the most persuasive, efficient and effective way in order to win this information war."

If you want to get through to the mass of most people, who are not on the streets interested in talking about it, you need the internet and a strategy for marketing to them. This has everything to do with the information war, and you keep trying to shoot it down.

Man, it's just a suggestion. It's for anybody to consider who wants to take reaching people seriously. Good luck to all of you, for the sake of everything.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Never shot it down at all. In fact, if you reread what I wrote above, I said I agreed with you that it would be good. You just have to understand what it really takes to make that happen. We can't be pie in the sky.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I've said what it would take. Whoever makes these nice websites for occupy should sit down and make something like represent.us did, which is an exhibit of one thing and simple enough for anyone. You want the elimination of corporate personhood, then start with that.

Now, make it official and use the network of activism occupy has already created to focus on it until the mass has been seeing this same thing everywhere. That's it. Make it simple, make it official, and make it focused. You'll penetrate the information war faster than anything else could have, without "preposterously optimistic" effort, or pie in the sky. Sending email and networking is effortless compared to providing relief for a hurricane.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

OK so please post the specific plan you are referencing for everyone's convenience.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I just did, and have. Are you asking how to network? Contact other groups and ask them to help showcase this, that we're going to try a mass focus. Not just occupy, try reaching other organisations.

You could contact clubs in every school to get students on the streets in every town, they would love it. Plus occupy has chapters all over the map, get them going. Put it all over social media. Just maintain focus, and on something simple, consistently.

But here's a question, what good would it do? Let's say we had 75% or more of america hearing and agreeing with this. What could we do with that? The political system technically doesn't care.

So what's the specific plan? Organize the people to vote for certain politicians, hoping they'll keep their word to create the needed amendments? I don't understand the political system well enough.

You asked how to reach more people. This is how, focus and simplicity. You need focus to cover ground and you need simplicity to be comprehended, the more of each the better.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

So, is the basic debate here whether we should be in the streets or at home in front of our computers? The reason I ask is that the contention of many in the occupy movement is that the big difference with occupy is people are not just behind their computer screens, but they are also out at actions and in the street. They get to know each other and network. Face-to-face communication.

I'm not saying Internet isn't key as a catalyst and that it can't be used even better. But there has to be a core to this that is "real".

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You said: "I don't know any person who watches mainstream media. Everybody has their head in a phone or computer, and they're not watching news. News has become a trival thing, it's entertainment at best. The internet is the most powerful communications dynamic ever created. You'll need people on the streets to help advertise, but you really need something on the internet that can actually be pervasive. People need to be spoon fed, and handed something to do on a silver platter. Otherwise they're not going to do anything except follow the contiguous forces of a world subjectively around them."

My response: OK sounds good. What would that look like specifically, that thing on the Internet that would be pervasive? I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on this.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I'm loosing my computer today. Just wanted to say thanks for slamming this around with me. I've only wanted to draw attention to the strategy involved with marketing and i'm just not a great writer.

Good luck with everything you do and cheers.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Maybe a lot like what Represent.Us did. Their site takes a person on baby steps, spoon feeding them one thing at a time, no complication. It's attractive, the information is effortless, and it lets you participate with the click of a button. They've changed the site a bit and it was actually a lot better before, but it's still pretty good. Given enough focus it would rule. From what i've heard though they don't actually have a great solution. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not, but they also say nothing about Citizens United.

I've already said a lot on the marketing which companies use to get through to the mass, that you have to be elevator music while having a strong identity. Never assume that people are smart, or interested enough to read more than a slogan. You're right, being perfect isn't easy, but these days people are addicted to it.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

These events seemed to reach people because the mainstre media couldn't ignore them: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/the-1-running-scared/

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

How about this. Events are what cause change, but we're talking about most people in America. Never before have so many people become addicted to something like the internet. Find them there.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I don't know any person who watches mainstream media. Everybody has their head in a phone or computer, and they're not watching news. News has become a trivial thing, it's entertainment at best.

The internet is the most powerful communications dynamic ever created. You'll need people on the streets to help advertise, but you really need something on the internet that can actually be pervasive.

People need to be spoon fed, and handed something to do on a silver platter. Otherwise they're not going to do anything except follow the contiguous forces of a world subjectively around them.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

We kick it by accepting our strengths and understanding our weaknesses & changing


Our strengths are the intelligent & hard working OWSers who are left.


Out weakness is our desire to avoid leaders & structure & political power.
Image what would have happened - 14 months ago - if every OWSer got another person to vote D & they got another person to vote D etc.
Imagine a House with 50 Bernies and Elizabeths and Barnys

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It would be great to put high pressure on the power structure from both inside and out. I agree wholeheartedly. Thanks for all you do to spread the word on the political side. So important. And such an opportunity.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This is something you should really like - it is another step in communications:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/exxon-hates-your-children-you-may-want-to-share-th/

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's VERY cool. Crisp message. Excellent production values. Really well done!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is really pretty good - can't seem to get anyone's attention on it here though. Although it has had at least one attacker so far.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I see this as something that could go viral in mainstream because it's very well done, sharply funny and almost like an snl spoof. I wonder if there's a way to get it to go viral... Get Ashton kit her to tweet it or something :). I'm only half kidding. The 1% gets scared when people in movements start partnering with celebrities. It works. And as an added benefit it makes news when their corporate handlers protest. Cuts a wide swath across corporate media.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It can be tweeted - it is even available for reddit - I am not familiar with reddit. But I did tweet it. Just can't seem to get any ones interest on this forum - to many troll attacks to fend off slap down?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think reddit might be able to do it if you package it right.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

it is all set up and ready to go.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

This short interview with Chris Hedges on a national news show demonstrates how the mainstream press can be a great vehicle: And it's helpful that his intelligent words are juxtaposed with the typical attempt at propaganda ("they don't know what they wan"t etc.).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] 0 points by Counselor1 (0) 1 year ago

Occupy Wall Street or others should hold, on private land, but with media invited, all around the U.S., ORDERLY, even if small demonstrations to convey that this is no time to impose severe austerity. It's going to punish victims of the collapse of 2007 - 2012. Advertise to media you will carry out burnings in effigy of those who set this up: Obama, McConnell, Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, maybe Dick Armey, Beck, Limbaugh, Norquist? "Kill the F.Cliff, Not the 99%ers!" "$4T Cuts Throws US under the Bus!"

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm all for protest on all kinds of land and admire you're energy but would not suggest burning any kind of burning in effigy. I advocate productive nonviolent direct action that spreads the message that our great republic has been hijacked by corporatists and this hijacking has caused and is causing great harm to our citizens, our country, the world and the environment. I also think austerity is ultimately brought to us by corporations that have undue influence (to put it mildly) in our political system.

I completely agree with you that nonviolent "orderly" protests are helpful because Americans see people like them in the streets and hear a message that resonates with them.

I think communication (especially through nonviolent direct action) is one of the keys because once we get out into the world and communicate with others, we start realizing that we have more in common than we have separating us. Once that clicks, we'll realize that we actually ARE the 99% and that it's been absurd to have the system rigged to benefit just the top 1%. Once that realization sinks in, we'll be able to stand up together and make decisions from a position of united strength instead of making demands from a position of divided weakness. Here are the 8 interim goals I'd personally like to see us pursue. http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/you-may-have-seen-this-list-of-8-practical-goals-b/ They aren't the end all be all, but they'd be a good start to help unseat the corporate forces that have hijacked our political system. The trick is getting enough people behind them and pushing (perhaps using methods similar to those employed by King and Gandhi).

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ok. I would like to see us pushing

  • equitable tax policy (increases on the 1%, cuts for the 99%)

  • Cuts of working class debt,

  • Public option Health care

  • expand Pell grants/job training.

  • Foreclosure moratorium.

  • Prosecute the wall st banksters.

Things like that.

[-] 0 points by LeoYo (5854) 1 year ago

You don't reach people with mere words. You reach people with actions that demonstrate the words. Better to engage in the single action of lighting a candle than to waste a wealth of words in cursing the darkness.

Occupy has cursed the bankers and encouraged people to transfer their money to credit unions but is Occupy doing anything towards creating a credit union option for all Americans?

Occupy has cursed the sell out of providing single payer universal healthcare to the coerced patronization of the privately owned insurance industry that will discriminate against pre-existing conditions and charge people ever higher rates but is Occupy advocating the creation of any mutual insurance company for all Americans to patronize as an alternative?

Occupy has cursed the unemployment and low wages caused by the greed of the corporate world but is Occupy willing to form a cooperative employment service that will channel the unemployed into their own cooperative businesses?

Occupy has cursed the government for all of its evils under the sun but is Occupy willing to rally people to make politicians legally accountable?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/freeda-template/

The only thing Occupy is doing is debt relief and that is a very recent thing. Until Occupy is willing to do more, people struggling to deal with their own chaotic lives aren't going to have time for mere words.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's just silly. Waking up is step one. To suggest that the movement is useless because it hasn't done more than awaken a nation is absurd.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 1 year ago

To speak of awakening a nation is absurd. No one is asleep to what's going on. When Occupy can present established alternatives, people will have options and choices to make in how to participate in the improvement of their own lives. Until then, people will continue on in their everyday lives as they always have.

You will ever remain a voice crying out in the wilderness because the struggling masses will never have time for criers who refuse to be builders.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ahh.. The same builders who have wrecked our democratic system, our environment, our economy? Those are your heroes?

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 1 year ago

The same builders who have established Mondragon http://www.mondragon-corporation.com/language/en-US/ENG/Who-we-are/Introduction.aspx in the 30s, the breakfast programs and free clinics http://www.stanford.edu/group/blackpanthers/programs.shtml in the 70s, and Evergreen Cooperatives http://evergreencooperatives.com/about/evergreen-story/ in the 2000s. Those are my heroes. People who actually did or are still doing something for the people. People who had no part in wrecking your so-called democratic system established by wealthy land owners and businessmen who wanted anything but a democracy http://occupywallst.org/forum/none-are-more-hopelessly-enslaved-than-those-who-f/ .

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

We grow by increasing the size of our agreement. When the agreement is fundamental this should be easy. When tied into legal process which supersedes congress and the supreme court such as Article V, it is obvious that the needed authority is there.

The only issue is, can we agree upon constitutional intent?"

So far i've not even seen we can discuss it. So much for the communication/information age.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm glad you made that comment. Thank you. I think you're getting to the heart of it. Well, let's have the conversation. What's your take on the constitutional intent? Please spell it out so I can understand clearly what you're getting at.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Primary intent of our social contract is that speech have meaning which WILL protect life.

Through our speech, our social interaction/expression, sharing etc., we can unify to protect our primary purposes AND those that follow.

Therein is the reasoning behind the first of 3 preparatory amendments to an Article V convention.

It starts with simple agreements upon the intents of the rights provided in the constitution. Try this. If we can agree then we have begun our part as citizens. Knowing and discussing constitutional intent between us is where it starts. BTW, if you understand, you should make a thread about what you think we've done here and what it means and how Americans who support the constitution should begin participating in this, even if they do nothing else. It is fundamental to being human.

Q- Is it of constitutional intent that freedom of speech have it's ultimate meaning in its potential to promote an understanding between people which can create; foregiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

A- Until a mother or father steps forwards to say they will pass and ignore a real opportunity through alignment with other citizens and Article V, to assure their child grows in a nation that holds high and honors its capacity to share and understand information needed for survival, protecting their life, retaining their social liberties and pursuing happiness, **it is logical to say it is, and Americans need to assure that free speech has that quality.

See how this cannot be assailed? What corp would try to answer? What politician would put the concept down and oppose it?

It absolutely creates reason to amend the constitution (or the first amendment) and assure the masses are informed and can communicate valid information between themselves undisturbed.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, the supreme court essentially opposed it when they ruled that corporations as people have unlimited "speech" rights. This diminished the rights of actual people. The corporatists who required political leaders to send in riot police to evict and arrests peaceful protesters in parks across the country... They put the concept of free speech down and opposed it.

It's horrendous what they did. Inexcusable. But it's just as horrendous that the rest of America sat by and let it happen. Those occupiers were fighting for all Anericans and their children and grandchildren.

Ultimately, we need to understand and ask what was so threatening to the 1% that they needed to have riot police attack young peaceful protesters in public parks. What the fuck is that about?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Actually, unconstitutional federal entities do not matter. We matter, the citizens. When these outrages are finally too much, we will realize that our agreement upon what is right, can simply grow and grow.

At a point, so many people will be involved, united across all social barriers, that state capitols will have to act properly or special elections will be petitioned enmasse in order to empty state offices of unconstitutional politicians.

Once a number of states citizens have agreed on their fundamental purposes, and accepted that constitutional intent serves them, a wave of states will undergo massive change.

All because citizens have shown they understand constitutional intent and are ready to use it through their states to conduct an Article V convention.

Everything else we might do is essentially letting them off the hook and giving up on our futures.

They will NEVER do the right thing. They do not even know what it is and certainly will not listen to us, and we do, IF we could ever get talking about it enough to un-abridge free speech, even a little.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm for that, but I don't understand this part: "At a point, so many people will be involved, united across all social barriers, that state capitols will have to act properly or special elections will be petitioned enmasse in order to empty state offices of unconstitutional politicians."

How do you actually get that unification to happen? Don't you need direct nonviolent action to provoke in order to get coverage in mainstream media and raise awareness? Isn't this also an information war?

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Another of the info war is junk news/sensation etc.

The web has been the major media for this. In fact a sizable amount of it is fake to make a front that appears to honor the junk info, so people feel like they are participating in something meaningful.

That extends to political movements. Here is a page that began as a NYCGA type thing sucking hundreds of citizens off and down the tubes of failure and perhaps alienation from activism.

http://nationalgeneralassembly.org/

Who gives a shirt? :-)

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Isn't this also an information war? Yes, very much so.

Accordingly Americans need to know what matters, and stop talking about everything else. You would be surprised at how fast it travels.

I've rejected almost all discussion on any other political front for perhaps 10 years. Discussing partisan politics is tantamount to treason by default. It's like discussion on washcloths while the house is on fire. Discussing partisan politics is EXACTLY what the nwo and elite want us to do.

It is a theatre intended for us to involve ourselves with, so we do not do anything that actually opposes the agenda destroying our rights and freedoms.

Accordingly, have as little to do with it as possible. Sort of like dirt on the floor. Sweep it up and throw it away.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Have you taken this to the streets, then?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Not sure what you're referring to. Taken what to the streets?

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

1) occupy wall st. if it wants to be a movement needs to elect a leadership council that can act with out consensus. 2) reoccupy the parks. 3) just do it.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It's actually really troubling when you think about it... Americans (those of us with the energy and inclination occupied the public spaces peacefully and we were evicted from the parks with riot police. And that's where it sort of stands at the moment, with most of mainstream America sort of seeming to acquiesce to that, essentially ceding that ground (the commons) which is supposed to be theirs.

They sat on their sofas (not all but many) and sort of shrugged. Even if they agreed with the message of Occupy, they didn't get that these were their parks too and the fight that those brave souls out in this public parks was their fight too.

Did the disproportionate violent crackdown seem odd to them, peaceful protesters being arrested, pepper sprayed, corralled? Did they wonder what exactly the threat was to the powers that be that such a violent response was necessary to a peaceful protest?

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

one wonders what goes through the minds of men.

[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

It would be fascinating to understand the thought process. To have a right so fundamental treated with such disdain by the powers that be (the 1%) is almost incomprehensible. The shocking thing is that many then simply shrugged. Egyptians haven't shrugged...

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

neuroscientists and psychologists are hard at work trying to do just that.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Probably the wrong place to look. Descartes was wrong. The whole cannot be understood by breaking it into parts. We have followed that line of thinking for way too long. Descartes led humanity down a long dark dead end alley with that one.

I think it's not a psychological or neurological issue, it's something else entirely. I think they suffer from a delusion that they can be mighty and separate and happy. But individualism is only one half of happiness. Human beings don't become completely fulfilled until they engage in community with others. The neurologists and psychologists aren't going to be able to find that answer. Bring on the philosophers. :)

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

science for the mind. mysticism for the spirit.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm not sure you can segment off the truth. I think the heartfelt message needs to pervade the whole being.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

If not with consensus, how would the leadership council act?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

like representatives independent of consensus.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Empowerment. Dont take no for an answer

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

The only way that I am aware of OWS over the past several months has been through this website. Occupy Sandy has not been visible enough. Honestly, that has been about the best thing that I believe you have done. Other than that, the pervading view is of a bunch of lazy "occutards". sorry, but that is a prevalent opinion of OWS among the red staters and red voters who you need to win over if you expect to have any chance of succeeding. Oh, and get a damn leader.
Your model of the Arab spring is reaping the fruits of its leaderless ideal in Egypt and Libya.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Here. Watch this. May help you see what you're missing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=youtube_gdata_player . Important to watch all the way to end to really get it.

[-] -1 points by UnFriendlyObserver (-32) 1 year ago

MLK was a Leader, Ghandi, was a Leader .. OWS .. has no Leader .. next..

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

That's pretty simplistic. Is that your entire response?

[-] 1 points by UnFriendlyObserver (-32) 1 year ago

It takes a Leader to Rally the people .. sorry you missed the point.. is it clear now ?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

No.

[-] -1 points by UnFriendlyObserver (-32) 1 year ago

That seems to be a common fault amongst Occupy, they don't see what's really going on in their own forest.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

But you haven't given any reasons why leaderless is bad. Think about the incredible rise of Occupy beginning last September 17th.... In a few weeks it went from a few people in a park to a national, actually international movement with 40 - 50 percent of Americans supporting it according to numerous polls in mainstream news. The civil rights movement, movement for Indian independence... All those took years and years and years.

So, because Occupy hasn't changed everything in 14 month's, it's wrong or leaderless is bad? Please give some reasons why leaderless is bad. Also, have you looked at the up side? What exactly had the 1% do afraid that they had to send in riot police in dozens of US and world cities?? Seriously? These were peaceful protestors? Why the violent response. You'll have trouble answering this because you don't want to admit the answer.

[-] -1 points by UnFriendlyObserver (-32) 1 year ago

I honestly don't the question ..? riot police is a natural response .. is it not ?

Yes there was a large show of interest in the begining .. and still many are interested and have not lost that wanting for fairness.. and they came out to see what Occupy was all about .. that's where you guys blew it.. you had no plan .. you were like the new york sitcom tv show "seinfeld" a show about nothing ... People want results .. this is not the dark ages .. (I don't want to bring up Anarchism , but that was your biggest downfall ) aside from no leadership .. and 14 months later your asking how to Rally the people .. people won't be running to see what Occupy is about this time .. .. anyway .. enough for now .. thanks

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its very tough. If endless war and trillions in wealthy bailouts dont get the people moving, then what does?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Maybe the following conversation will offer some insight into another angle. What do you think of the strategy in last item below?

[-] 2 points by therising (4583) 38 minutes ago It's bizarre how vehemently some DEFEND the situation where corporations are first priority. How do humans end up with a mindset that is the opposite of self-preservation?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (11309) 33 minutes ago A false hubris, blind nationalism and brainwashing to believe in rugged individualism may contribute. **Also, maybe, just not knowing anything else, so ignorance? Sounds cruel, but it's true. If you've never been exposed to love and beauty what do you know of it?**

[-] 1 points by therising (4583) 0 minutes ago Aha!! You just got me thinking. I think you're on to something here..... Rather than going at the 1% only in attack mode, maybe we need a good cop bad cop thing here.... Wherein we continue to push on the facts and rail nonviolently against the wrongs -- but at the same time, others could discover ways for the 1% to discover true beauty, true peace, true love...... Sort of in the same way that Malcolm X chased so many whites into the arms of Martin L King, Jr. and the civil rights movement. Well, it's different because in my case I'm against violence for any reason anywhere, but you get the general idea. Maybe it takes both.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, the good news is we don't need everybody. Just a significant portion of the population. We just need to reach critical mass. And I don't think critical mass is as big as we think. I believe it's attainable. At one point numerous national polls by mainstream national news showed about 40 - 59% of the population of U.S. agrees with the message of Occupy (income and wealth disparity, roll of corporations in politics etc.). Now, I realize most of them weren't getting off their sofas but still, that's a he'll of a statistic. Shows great pore trial.

One of the problems of course was that we lost the information war in that instance. How do we get over that hump?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its tough. Especially when you dont have a core message that everyone can agree on. Then the media will just make it for you.

[-] -2 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

The best way to attract is to encourage government to raise taxes. Next year, after we go over the cliff, everyone will pay more, and that includes the rich and many members of Congress.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

and we will be able to use that money to put people to WORK

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27702) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If the people have anything to say about the proper use of our taxes.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

If we sever the link between capitalism & democracy, WE will own our government since the PEOPLE will be the only contributors

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

But strong government is good. We need stronger government, not weaker one. Stronger government would have had suitable regulations with teeth in place that would have prevented the 2008 financial crisis.

[-] -2 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

Definitely, just tax accordingly. Next year, I would expect many members of Congress to pay several hundreds of thousands more.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What are you getting at?

[-] -2 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

Taxes. We need to raise taxes, right?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What are YOU getting at?

[-] -2 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

The fiscal calamity... next year taxes are going up.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right. And?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

And? What does that have to do with the original post?

[-] -3 points by Sitapea (-28) from Fort Belvoir, VA 1 year ago

Keeping all that in mind and going beyond taking appropriate actions in your own life consistent with your beliefs as an individual, what can we who see the urgency do to spread the word of the danger of the corporate takeover?

The most assured way of growing our woebegotten smosh is to raise Federal taxes.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What is "woebegotten smosh"?