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Forum Post: Green or not? What is the Cost?

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 30, 2011, 11:17 a.m. EST by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

How expensive is death and disease? You know the things related to pollution? You know Mercury, Arsenic, carbon particulates etc.etc. or the melting of the worlds ice caps and the raising of the sea level up 60' or more. What cost for those driven out of their homes as they go under water? What cost for those needing to house floodwater immigrants? What cost to those dying of thirst because their glacial water source has melted away. What cost of polluting the Ground water by drilling for oil or fracking for gas? What cost lubricating the pressure points along a faultline with the fracking process fluids?

Yes indeed what cost is worth supporting Oil, Gas & Coal or Supporting a clean energy program.

People can weigh the costs and decide what they prefer. In all I think they will decide that health and a healthy environment are worth pushing forward truly green energy and fuel.

also a thank you from Sen. Bernie Sanders ( please share )

Dear Friend,

Thank you for signing the petition supporting The Saving American Democracy Amendment. The outpouring of support from you and tens of thousands of others sends a loud and clear message that the American people want to undo the disastrous 5-4 Citizens United Supreme Court decision. We must stop corporations from spending unlimited sums of money, without disclosure, to influence Americans elections. American democracy is not for sale.

Reverse the Citizens United decision.The Constitution is an extraordinary document. It has served our country well for more than two centuries. In my view, however, this is one of those rare times when a constitutional amendment is the only way to save the democracy that our founders created.

Passing a constitutional amendment will not be easy and it will not happen tomorrow. It is a long and difficult process and there will be many bumps along the road. Like other great struggles in our modern history – women's rights, civil rights, environmental protection, etc. – we will need to bring millions of Americans together to demand that Congress and state legislatures represent the needs of ordinary Americans, and not just the wealthy and powerful.

The promise of democracy -- the essential democracy this amendment is directed at protecting – is that the ultimate power in our nation rests with its people, and not with corporations or even elected officials. Our joint effort to defend this nation's democratic electoral process is something that speaks to what being an American is about, and something we should be very proud of.

I hope you ask your friends to sign the petition. And if you aren't already a subscriber to The Bernie Buzz, we'll sign you up for the electronic newsletter to keep you posted on what's happening to the amendment and other news in Washington. (If you do not wish to receive the Bernie Buzz, you may unsubscribe below.)

Sincerely, Bernie U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders

SHARE THIS

Please Feel Free to Tell a Friend E-mail: E-mail: E-mail:

Please do not respond to this email, it is not a monitored address. If you would like to send Senator Sanders a comment click here. To unsubscribe to all newsletters from this sender, click here. Privacy Policy

Want to sign the petition? Click http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

102 Comments

102 Comments


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[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 2 years ago

I was just talking to someone else on the comment board yesterday about the movie Erin Brockovitch and how the town of Hinkley, CA was lied to by PG&E. They told those people that their was some chromium in their water, but that it was a good for them. Meanwhile, Hinkley's water supply really had Chromium 6 in it (the most toxic kind of Chromium). Those poor people got all sorts of cancers and ailments because of PG&E wrecklessness. This is not the first time something like this happened and it won't be the last.

Here check this out. http://www.nrdc.org/health/diseaseclusters/

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hinkley that was a terrible incident. I wonder how many poisoning survivors there still are?

Hey Wind, good to hear from you. I caught your post yesterday but have not looked at it yet. Still in recovery mode. Thank you for forwarding the link, I have saved it to look at later. I have not been that active today, I've only stopped in a couple of time to see what was going on, looks like I picked another good moment. If I don't catch you later - Have a happy new year. I'll be stopping back in later.

[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 2 years ago

Yes, Hinkley was terrible. I don't know how many people died from terminal illness due to chromium 6 contamination. That I would like to know, I will research it a little later.

If I don't see you on this comment board--I wish you a Happy New Year as well. Here is hoping for a better year. Peace.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for the link. I placed a comment on it just now.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Check this out a real fuel cell company. Who knew?

http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/

Look into them for yourself. We have something real to push for.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

If the OWS movement promoted FCEL to the public the movement would become credible because it solves the crazy energy policy that is controlled by the media propaganda for the nuclear power industry, coal, and oil.

All the car companies have fuel cell vehicles. We need to mandate the end of internal combustion engines the exact same way that leaded gas was stopped by government mandate.

Buy the stocks of FCEL (Fuel Cell Energy) and BLDP (Ballard Power) to get the best 2 companies with a direct fuel cell business. I have researched this industry for 5 years. Both stocks are rock bottom now.

[-] 1 points by GordonGekko (8) 2 years ago

Thats because both will fail once their obama bucks run out. Obama has a nack for picking losers.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

I have no idea what you wrote means. Obama has nothing to do with fuel cell companies.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

There will be a huge move to an energy policy that uses fuel cells in the place of nuclear power and fossil fuels if the OWS movement people invest their own capital into stocks like FCEL and then profit from their own demands from government to change the crazy, stupid policy that exists. That is capitalism and democracy working in the rational way that makes sense.

The reason there has been the irrational behavior is because of the media propaganda that has brainwashed people to function against their own self interest and believe there is no way to change.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for the information on FuelCell Energy, Inc. I'm just doing some exploration but it looks to be very interesting.

Check this out a real fuel cell company. Who knew?

http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/

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[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

I knew because I studied all the companies in the industry for years. Fuel Cell Energy FCEL is the one to buy right now at $.88

I will start a suit against them because they ripped off $90,000,000 of the stockholders money. We will force their insurance company to pay the $90,000,000 back. Its $.88 because they have sold stock and diluted the value to keep operating the company. But their product works like a charm.

Take my advice and load up at this price. It won't be available for long. Read my letter: DIVINE ENERGY – THANK GOD Shift The Price Risk Bridgeport, CT 06605 Steve Miller Phone 203-612-1987

December 29, 2011

Chip Bottone President and Chief Executive Officer FuelCell Energy, Inc. 3 Great Pasture Road Danbury, CT 06813-1305

Dear Mr. Bottone:

If you refuse to discuss a remedy for the following problems this week, I will begin to search for an attorney who will file a stockholder derivative suit that will force you to resolve these problems by court order. The response I have received for my good faith approach to simple problems that are costing the shareholders suicidal dilution and a counterproductive marketing approach that has wasted $90,696,000 in the past five years has been unprofessional and bizarre. Fuel cells solve the energy policy All of the pollution, poison, and dangers from using nuclear power, coal, and oil are solved by the use of fuel cells. The public relations (propaganda) lies by the nuclear power, coal, and oil industries that constantly claim that they are safe and clean are ignored by the small fuel cell industry that will be destined to stay small if they continue failing to inform the public that fuel cells are the proven solution to the terrible risks from nuclear power, coal, and oil drilling. The recent Fukishima nuclear explosions we watched every day on TV killed 20,000 people, damaged the entire economy of Japan, and spread dangerous radiation for miles.

The NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) and the Energy Department are both very cozy with the industries they monitor. None of their scientists and senior staff people ever recommends the solution that fuel cells are able to solve right now with current technology that is used very sparingly to replace the power plants that have caused explosions and spent fuel that can't be disposed of safely. There is virtually not a peep from the fuel cell industry to promote their solution.

Let's not forget the BP oil spill that poured oil into our food supply and then to make that worse BP was allowed by our government to dump massive chemicals they called a dispersant that masked the oil by breaking it into small particles that were less obvious to see. Let's not forget the daily explosions they call mountain top recovery that destroys the clean mountain water supply when the terrible chemicals from the explosions are dumped purposely to eliminate the cost of mining the coal before it is burned and poisons are air. The entire fuel cell industry completely ignores its own remedy.

FuelCell Energy (FCEL) has perfected the best process in the industry. The company has spent $17,150 $17,194 $19,968 $18,625 $17,759 on its annual selling expenses but has completely failed to make the public aware of the solution that is quietly stated to shareholders who are the few people who know their product solves the enormous risks that continue exploding poison into our food and air we breathe. It would be rational for citizens to demand that the products by FCEL replace the entire power industry on a round the clock operation but the FCEL management has failed to use the $90,696,000 it has spent. That is not a small sum of money to have been wasted during the past five years.

During the past 10 years the price of FCEL shares have dropped from $46 down to $.87 per share today 12/29/11. Recently the FCEL management diluted the net worth when it sold in July 2010 an underwritten public offering of 27,600,000 shares of common stock at a price to the public of $1.25 per share.

Net proceeds to the Company from the offering, after deducting the underwriters’ discounts and commissions and offering expenses, were approximately $32.1 million.

On January 10, 2011 FCEL announced entry into a definitive agreement with an institutional investor to sell an aggregate of 10,160,428 units at a negotiated price of $1.87 per unit, with each unit consisting of (i) one share of its common stock, par value $0.0001 per share (“Common Stock”) and (ii) one warrant to purchase 1.0 share of Common Stock, in a registered direct offering for gross proceeds of $19.0 million. The net proceeds from the sale of the units, after deducting the placement agent fees and other estimated offering expenses, will be approximately $17.8 million.

FCEL intends to use the proceeds from this offering for product development, project financing, expansion of manufacturing capacity, and general corporate purposes. There is no mention for the necessary public relations that would inform the public and the government of the energy policy solution created by FCEL. $90,696,000 has been wasted and the net worth of FCEL has been diluted in a corporate suicide. Regards, Steve Miller

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

First what you do is take an electrolytic cell. If you don't know what that is, it is a device that takes electricity, runs it through a liquid, (In this case water), and breaks it down into its component parts. The hydrogen and oxygen can be separated so that just the hydrogen goes to the hydrogen fuel producing electricity and running an electric car.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

You accused me of being a poser

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

I have an idea for hydrogen fuel cells to power electric cars and it doesn't require a hydrogen fuel tank.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

These products are on the market. Go to this link.

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/media/1351623/industry_review_2011.pdf

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

I know I've bought a book and actually built an electrolytic cell that runs partially with a 1959 Jeep Willies. I'm damn proud of that car.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 2 years ago

DIVINE ENERGY – THANK GOD Shift The Price Risk Bridgeport, CT 06605 Steve Miller Phone 203-612-1987

December 29, 2011

Chip Bottone President and Chief Executive Officer FuelCell Energy, Inc. 3 Great Pasture Road Danbury, CT 06813-1305

Dear Mr. Bottone:

If you refuse to discuss a remedy for the following problems this week, I will begin to search for an attorney who will file a stockholder derivative suit that will force you to resolve these problems by court order. The response I have received for my good faith approach to simple problems that are costing the shareholders suicidal dilution and a counterproductive marketing approach that has wasted $90,696,000 in the past five years has been unprofessional and bizarre. Fuel cells solve the energy policy All of the pollution, poison, and dangers from using nuclear power, coal, and oil are solved by the use of fuel cells. The public relations (propaganda) lies by the nuclear power, coal, and oil industries that constantly claim that they are safe and clean are ignored by the small fuel cell industry that will be destined to stay small if they continue failing to inform the public that fuel cells are the proven solution to the terrible risks from nuclear power, coal, and oil drilling. The recent Fukishima nuclear explosions we watched every day on TV killed 20,000 people, damaged the entire economy of Japan, and spread dangerous radiation for miles.

The NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) and the Energy Department are both very cozy with the industries they monitor. None of their scientists and senior staff people ever recommends the solution that fuel cells are able to solve right now with current technology that is used very sparingly to replace the power plants that have caused explosions and spent fuel that can't be disposed of safely. There is virtually not a peep from the fuel cell industry to promote their solution.

Let's not forget the BP oil spill that poured oil into our food supply and then to make that worse BP was allowed by our government to dump massive chemicals they called a dispersant that masked the oil by breaking it into small particles that were less obvious to see. Let's not forget the daily explosions they call mountain top recovery that destroys the clean mountain water supply when the terrible chemicals from the explosions are dumped purposely to eliminate the cost of mining the coal before it is burned and poisons are air. The entire fuel cell industry completely ignores its own remedy.

FuelCell Energy (FCEL) has perfected the best process in the industry. The company has spent $17,150 $17,194 $19,968 $18,625 $17,759 on its annual selling expenses but has completely failed to make the public aware of the solution that is quietly stated to shareholders who are the few people who know their product solves the enormous risks that continue exploding poison into our food and air we breathe. It would be rational for citizens to demand that the products by FCEL replace the entire power industry on a round the clock operation but the FCEL management has failed to use the $90,696,000 it has spent. That is not a small sum of money to have been wasted during the past five years.

During the past 10 years the price of FCEL shares have dropped from $46 down to $.87 per share today 12/29/11. Recently the FCEL management diluted the net worth when it sold in July 2010 an underwritten public offering of 27,600,000 shares of common stock at a price to the public of $1.25 per share.

Net proceeds to the Company from the offering, after deducting the underwriters’ discounts and commissions and offering expenses, were approximately $32.1 million.

On January 10, 2011 FCEL announced entry into a definitive agreement with an institutional investor to sell an aggregate of 10,160,428 units at a negotiated price of $1.87 per unit, with each unit consisting of (i) one share of its common stock, par value $0.0001 per share (“Common Stock”) and (ii) one warrant to purchase 1.0 share of Common Stock, in a registered direct offering for gross proceeds of $19.0 million. The net proceeds from the sale of the units, after deducting the placement agent fees and other estimated offering expenses, will be approximately $17.8 million.

FCEL intends to use the proceeds from this offering for product development, project financing, expansion of manufacturing capacity, and general corporate purposes. There is no mention for the necessary public relations that would inform the public and the government of the energy policy solution created by FCEL. $90,696,000 has been wasted and the net worth of FCEL has been diluted in a corporate suicide. Regards, Steve Miller

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

See my above post as well. Not as long as yours but it explains my idea.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by KingVegetax (51) 2 years ago

There is no such thing as "truly green energy and fuel." No matter what you do it will have some sort of negative consequence on the environment .

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Check your thread before clicking on a communication notice. See below. Is this a set-up for some new type of attack? ( I sent the message inquiry to Occupy WallStreet ) :

What does it mean when you get message notifications and you check your thread before opening the notification, and you find that no comment has been made on your post thread?

Like these notices:

Glaucon replied to your post: How expensive is death and disease? You6 minutes ago AntiSpamBot replied to your post: How expensive is death and disease? You53 minutes ago Thrasymaque replied to your post: How expensive is death and disease? You2 hours ago

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

incidentally I got a 500 server error when I attempted to open:

http://ows.superunion.org

what's going on?

I was able to open http://superunion.org - and I assume http://ows.superunion.org is on the same server? Just a subset of http://superunion.org

It may be the moderators won't be back?

I suppose we could potentially occupy the forum by occupying the code . . .

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Now, you can cast your customary insult or swear at me as usual.

. . . . Trashy . . . .

And I was being so . . . nice

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I think the only way you are ever really going to see any success is by getting the password to admin access and then installing filters and captchas and deleting the bullshit spam.

Anything else is just shoveling shit against the tide.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I love it when you two get along. : )

This is so much better. Afterall, it's not like he's a repelican or anything so horrendous as that!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

LoL!

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Sooooo much better. Happy New Year Zen. I'm still recovering from mine. Martinis and karoke. My throat hurts and my head hurts. How about you? I just love New Years Eve!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Happy New Year to you to.

I went to Burlington and helped Occupy the dragon parade. It was fun.

And since I don't drink, I didn't wake up with a hangover.

That's kinda nice. I like that.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You're so disciplined and dedicated! That's really awesome. I'm just a lush. I won't do that again for a while though! I can hardly talk today. That's kinda funny actually. Yesterday I couldn't walk, today I can't talk. Maybe tomorrow I'll have it all together again.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

LoL!

It isn't discipline - I guess what it is is a gift.

I used to drink daily.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Maybe it's the gift of discipline then. You should be really proud of yourself. That must take alot of discipline! That's part of New Years too. Being thankful for all of the gifts we have.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13115) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Have you tested it?

I don't get posts to cycle to the top of the list by hitting:

  • reply

  • cancel

It doesn't seem to work.

[-] 0 points by GordonGekko (8) 2 years ago

I have a collection of classic cars. Nothing is better than the smell of 110 octane in the morning

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Do you keep your collection in a garage?

If so, close all of the doors and windows turn off any air handling units, go inside with a comfy chair, perhaps a cocktail. Start up all of your classics, sit-down and enjoy your drink, continue in this manner for a couple hours or a couple days. Please let us know how you enjoy the experience or have your next of kin do it for you, please record the experience so others can enjoy it as well. Thank you.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Start now! Why wait?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Content provided by Steve Miller. Hope you don't mind that I shared this Steve.

stevemiller said 17 minutes ago at Dec. 30, 2011, 12:15 p.m. EST (delete)

DIVINE ENERGY – THANK GOD Shift The Price Risk Bridgeport, CT 06605 Steve Miller Phone 203-612-1987

December 29, 2011

Chip Bottone President and Chief Executive Officer FuelCell Energy, Inc. 3 Great Pasture Road Danbury, CT 06813-1305

Dear Mr. Bottone:

If you refuse to discuss a remedy for the following problems this week, I will begin to search for an attorney who will file a stockholder derivative suit that will force you to resolve these problems by court order. The response I have received for my good faith approach to simple problems that are costing the shareholders suicidal dilution and a counterproductive marketing approach that has wasted $90,696,000 in the past five years has been unprofessional and bizarre. Fuel cells solve the energy policy All of the pollution, poison, and dangers from using nuclear power, coal, and oil are solved by the use of fuel cells. The public relations (propaganda) lies by the nuclear power, coal, and oil industries that constantly claim that they are safe and clean are ignored by the small fuel cell industry that will be destined to stay small if they continue failing to inform the public that fuel cells are the proven solution to the terrible risks from nuclear power, coal, and oil drilling. The recent Fukishima nuclear explosions we watched every day on TV killed 20,000 people, damaged the entire economy of Japan, and spread dangerous radiation for miles.

The NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) and the Energy Department are both very cozy with the industries they monitor. None of their scientists and senior staff people ever recommends the solution that fuel cells are able to solve right now with current technology that is used very sparingly to replace the power plants that have caused explosions and spent fuel that can't be disposed of safely. There is virtually not a peep from the fuel cell industry to promote their solution.

Let's not forget the BP oil spill that poured oil into our food supply and then to make that worse BP was allowed by our government to dump massive chemicals they called a dispersant that masked the oil by breaking it into small particles that were less obvious to see. Let's not forget the daily explosions they call mountain top recovery that destroys the clean mountain water supply when the terrible chemicals from the explosions are dumped purposely to eliminate the cost of mining the coal before it is burned and poisons are air. The entire fuel cell industry completely ignores its own remedy.

FuelCell Energy (FCEL) has perfected the best process in the industry. The company has spent $17,150 $17,194 $19,968 $18,625 $17,759 on its annual selling expenses but has completely failed to make the public aware of the solution that is quietly stated to shareholders who are the few people who know their product solves the enormous risks that continue exploding poison into our food and air we breathe. It would be rational for citizens to demand that the products by FCEL replace the entire power industry on a round the clock operation but the FCEL management has failed to use the $90,696,000 it has spent. That is not a small sum of money to have been wasted during the past five years.

During the past 10 years the price of FCEL shares have dropped from $46 down to $.87 per share today 12/29/11. Recently the FCEL management diluted the net worth when it sold in July 2010 an underwritten public offering of 27,600,000 shares of common stock at a price to the public of $1.25 per share.

Net proceeds to the Company from the offering, after deducting the underwriters’ discounts and commissions and offering expenses, were approximately $32.1 million.

On January 10, 2011 FCEL announced entry into a definitive agreement with an institutional investor to sell an aggregate of 10,160,428 units at a negotiated price of $1.87 per unit, with each unit consisting of (i) one share of its common stock, par value $0.0001 per share (“Common Stock”) and (ii) one warrant to purchase 1.0 share of Common Stock, in a registered direct offering for gross proceeds of $19.0 million. The net proceeds from the sale of the units, after deducting the placement agent fees and other estimated offering expenses, will be approximately $17.8 million.

FCEL intends to use the proceeds from this offering for product development, project financing, expansion of manufacturing capacity, and general corporate purposes. There is no mention for the necessary public relations that would inform the public and the government of the energy policy solution created by FCEL. $90,696,000 has been wasted and the net worth of FCEL has been diluted in a corporate suicide. Regards, Steve Miller

[-] 0 points by Kirby (104) 2 years ago

Fuel cells are great. It is actually fairly old technology. Fuel cells will not need propping up by government subsidies, like ethanol, phony Solyndra, and wind that is an eye sore, and kills large numbers of migratory birds. Fuel cells are efficient, clean, safe, and can do away with much of the electric power grid. This is the problem, really, as public utilities are profit seekers, and when people purchase stand alone cells, utilities are left out of the equation. We own property well off the grid, and were told 10 years ago by the local utility that fuel cells would be available within 18 months. It still hasn't happened. The way to get around this ismto purchase one on your own.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I have lots to learn about fuel cell business. Some one else shared knowledge of a company in operation now. Thought you might be interested in taking a look at them.

Check this out a real fuel cell company. Who knew?

http://www.fuelcellenergy.com/

[-] 0 points by Kirby (104) 2 years ago

Checkout http:www.fuelcellstore.com

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks Kirby I definitely will. Though probably not today as I am in a down cycle as far as functioning goes ( doing heavy lifting like learning something new ). But I will definitely get there.

Thanks again.

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[Removed]

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Lobby the government. Your voice is a vote. Petitioning is lobbying. The Peoples Lobby. Take part, take action.

Forward environmental change. Your participation can make a difference.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/keystone_sotu/?id=33678-4904244-%3Dxzka6x&t=7

187,506 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:48am central time 01/20/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures as of 01/20/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Forward environmental change. Your participation can make a difference.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/keystone_sotu/?id=33678-4904244-%3Dxzka6x&t=7

186,696 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 10:22am central time 01/19/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures as of 01/19/2012 10:22am central time. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Take action. See samples of how below.

183,361 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 10:15am central time 01/15/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 15 signatures. We picked one up at around 9:50pm 01/13/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

Green jobs are ridiculous, since the only green jobs that turn a profit are in the software sector. Computers cut employees and workload. Coal, Oil, Gold, mining, farming, and other such academics turn profit and raises jobs. Man made global warming is a myth, and anyone in the science community that doesn't carry an agenda for state funding can tell you that the earth is cooling off because we are finally exiting out of an ice age.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

There is no reason we cannot come up with technology to provide cleaner energy. Even if global warming is not real there is nothing goo about pumping our CO2 and Sulfur Dioxide into the air. There are dead lakes in the northeast cause by SO2 emitted by these plants.

Since 50% of electricity is created by coal and oil we need to invest in technology that makes the process cleaner. What we build depends on where it is being used.

Solar makes sense in the desert southwest but not in the Northwest where it rains 70% of the year.

Geothermal makes sense in the West where the heat of the earth is close to the surface. There is an virtually unlimited supply once you create the power plant.

Coal makes sense in the east where there is plenty of coal. The Glassification and Super Critical processes reduce emissions by more than 75%.

Current wind technology makes the least sense because to get the power of one coal plant you would need wind turbines 300 feet apart covering the entire state of Rhode Island. Personally I find these turbines ugly bordering on the Pennsylvania mountain tops.

There are some things I think that the government can do to help. Providing incentives to install scrubbers in power plants or even covering the cost would be one thing. Subsidizing ethanol on the other hand is a big mistake since it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol that what we get out of it.

If we declared war on our energy needs rather than on other countries we would spend spend billions in fixing coal, creating geothermal plants, hydro power... and still save trillions.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I think you need to rethink your statement about man's contribution to the green house effect. Scientists are looking at cores ( drill samples ) that go back millions of years. They are looking into the content of green house gases over the time period evidenced in these core samples and they are finding, that even during previous warm earth cycles that there was not the level of green house gasses that we have right now today. We may still be on a natural warming cycle, but how much are we affecting it? How much are we accelerating it? How much different will this warming cycle be because of our contribution?

This does not even get into how we are poisoning ourselves and the land, ground water, surface water, air. the food chain. We have got to stop killing ourselves with needless pollution.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4495) 2 years ago

Hi DKA, Good post. Best Regards, Nevada

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks. I'm having a lot of fun with this one. Check out some of the mindless, blind marching shit that I get to play with.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4495) 2 years ago

Yes, I see what you mean. The people who lived at Love Canal, will not argue with you.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Another good example for pushing Truly Green Energy fuel power.

I mean there is nothing productive that you can do with nuclear waste.

You can only wait for it to deteriorate. Hundreds of thousands of years to wait so far with our current waste collection?

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4495) 2 years ago

People at Chernobyl, will not argue with you.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nor would I expect much argument from the Japanese people.

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

I'm sorry but I can't believe those scientist, too many in recent years who are con men in the Eco community looking to say anything for government grant money. Man made Global warming was already disproven and this Eco-science con discovered in hacked emails.

You know the first guy to promote global warming was also the same guy who said he invented the internet before he was even born. SO I have little faith on Eco conspiracist and more on hard fact.

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Then get a science degree of your own.

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

Prompting against an individual who has explicit information on a subject to an ignorant educated individual does not contribute in the error of such individuals temperament of separating interrogating carnal fact.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Interesting you can type that while obviously asleep.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here are some hard facts you can check out:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/watching-the-demise-of-the-columbia-glacier/

Glaciers used to move in inches per year. Now you've got movement of over 30' in a day?

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

Glaciers moving 30 inches if this sketchy claim of information is accurate enough is due to the cooling off period from a vanishing ice age, not man made global warming.

Stop distorting the truth please.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That's 30' ( feet ) not inches.

If you like articles better than programs.

Here's one from the Scientific American:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/report.cfm?id=climate-change-durban

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

DKAtoday I must have read your comment wrong but still my answer holds merit and any report you throw out is fiction from real fact. Doing a simple google search on the top 10 results isn't doing you any good as well.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

If you can't believe the evidence presented to your own eye's, in a Time Lapse Photography Series, if you can't garner truth out of published scientific articles, then I'm afraid you may as well go back to sleep. Sorry for disturbing your slumber.

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

No, IM Sorry for disturbing your slumber since all the facts you have provided on this post are simply fabrications among the science community. Please re-educate yourself on the subject before creating non-factual post and misleading the general population with conspiracy propaganda.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Fabrications among the science community?

Like to who?

You have not presented anything to support your "feelings".

You just tell me that the articles and programs that I have forwarded are fiction. I suppose that could be true if only in your own mind.

If you want to share some real evidence that you have found in your own exploration of the issue. Please do share! Just don't go on repeating that you do not believe.That is not very productive if you have nothing to present to support your stance.

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

I will give my own time out to present the facts among the global warming phenomena as soon as you present real facts, not simple congenital of mindless hear say.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Don't bother starting now. If that is truly an intent of yours. Or don't wait to start presenting, as you have already dug yourself a deep hole..

Because anyone who follows this conversational thread will already have seen that so far you don't have a leg to stand on. By this time they are aware that you are full of shit and they are wondering just how high it can be stacked.

[-] -1 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

The people reading my angle off from real factual proof will already have done a simple science search in the effects of ice age cooling causing global warming. You sir in your bias and conspiracy driven way choose not to inform yourself correctly other than what you decide is fact that I must say is just pure propaganda and mindless hippocratic dribble among the science community.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Productive for you. I mean it would probably be the the most productive you can be. Truly sad when you think about it .......... so I won't. Bye shithead wouldn't want to be you!

NightShade 1 points 0 minutes ago

More like your mindless rants buddy, I will soon be writing a post that will shatter your ill-intelligent horse shit. Now if you excuse me ya nerd I'm going to spend time watching t.v and fucking a hooker.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

NightShade - Chamber pot in truth. From someone who has not presented one single fact to support your position. It is amazing to me that you continue to come back with these lame ass comments. But please continue as I am sure I'm not the only one who enjoys laughing at your mindless bullshit.

NightShade 1 points 1 minute ago

I should have known, you obviously can't control the shit that oozes out of your post who would have known you can't keep you logic together. Just like this illogical post you have provided OWS, filled with loop holes and other outrage shit. Rants from a lunatic if you ask me.

Yes NightShade we already know that you are ranting we are just wondering how long you will continue before you realize it yourself.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

More like your mindless rants buddy, I will soon be writing a post that will shatter your ill-intelligent horse shit. Now if you excuse me ya nerd I'm going to spend time watching t.v and fucking a hooker.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

NightShade is a Shit Head who is loose with out it's keeper again!

I mean Really?????????????? Talk about living in a fantasy world. Fiction does not get as strange as the shit you put out!!!!!!!!!

] NightShade 1 points 0 minutes ago

I'm just curious if you are an agent, perhaps work for the oil companies maybe you're just stupid and the probable cause is that you are nothing more than a troll who started this bogus post just so you could argue with someone and waste their time.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

I should have known, you obviously can't control the shit that oozes out of your post who would have known you can't keep you logic together. Just like this illogical post you have provided OWS, filled with loop holes and other outrage shit. Rants from a lunatic if you ask me.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You have not stated anything here to date!

You have only been spewing hot air that is filled with shit.

You could not present a fact to save your life.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

I'm just curious if you are an agent, perhaps work for the oil companies maybe you're just stupid and the probable cause is that you are nothing more than a troll who started this bogus post just so you could argue with someone and waste their time.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ya.........thanks for not sharing. Again and continually!!!!!!

Just admit that you have nothing and then quietly squirm away.

Not to worry everyone has already determined that you have nothing.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

No, no one has determine anything, I give people a choice to investigate the information I state not force the community to read bias claims from articles and science you know nothing of if not amateur in nature.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here's another article from the Scientific American:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=retreating-mountain-glaciers-pose

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Where are you going to get any hard facts if you discount all of the findings by all of the scientists who are studying the issue. The basic fact that cannot be denied at this point in time, is that we have never in the examined portion of the history of this planet "never" had as high of a concentration gasses as we do right "now"!

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

This is also a out right blunt lie as well. Since The science community does not have an accurate whole historical record of high concentration gas levels, they can only make poorly hypothesis assumptions of such levels. Because of this, no such accurate claim can be bestowed as truth.

In turn fraudulent statements of such and unproven theories currently consent to fiction.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Get better informed.

Watch the programs for yourself. Check out the time lapse photography.

Playing now, Nova on PBS: Extreme Ice

Next: Secrets Beneath the Ice

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

No, you need to get better informed, Nova and PBS get funding from governmental and scientific grant communities and hold bias claims, read scientific journals please, not fly by night television shows on popular networks, this will only rot your brain.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What you mean the supporters of Oil and Coal and Gas are putting this stuff out?

Who woulda figured that they would do that! I mean throwing dirt at their own interests.

How diabolical of them.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

Tobacco corporations did the same as well, activity promoting their product as cancerous and helping to create regulations and government taxation on such product once the public had received word that the science community had proven smoking cigarettes were cancerous.

It is a known fact through paper research that the very own tobacco corporations also own the majority of stock in cancer research institutions that governmental cigarette tax dollars go too.

Ending the process by killing two birds with one stone and receiving double the profit on both lanes.

Have you ever read who owns a large majority of green energy patents, you might just be surprised.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Your reply does not comment on the fact of the truth about global warming. I have supplied you with plenty of reading material on the subject and there is more ( since you claim to like to get your facts from articles rather than programs ). Don't go running off subject with tobacco, we are not talking about that industry here. Here we are confronting the effects and reality of global warming and mans contribution to it.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

No, you are confronting the effects and reality of global warming and mans contribution to it. I am simply stating the error in your statements.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You have not presented any errors. You have presented your inability to confront the truth.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

If you can't believe the evidence presented to your own eye's, in a Time Lapse Photography Series, if you can't garner truth out of published scientific articles, then I'm afraid you may as well go back to sleep. Sorry for disturbing your slumber.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

All I see here is your willfulness in writing dull repeatable catch phrases that are not at all amusing to me. If you were really serious you would not try to converse the subject with saturated non-sense nor informational articles you had found on the first page in google search.

You would be providing real data and real information on the truth of what is really causing the effect of global warming and this is because of the cooling off phase of an ancientry ice age and the only fact among the dribble you have produced here on the forums today.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You've sunk to mimicry now? Do you start crying next?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34885) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nice seeing you try to continue using that argument of yours, while still supplying nothing of your proof's.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

It's simply equivocal seeing you try to continue using that argument of yours, while still supplying nothing of your proof's.

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Not true. You're letting the DC meat puppets and the basket weaving hippies box you in with their thinking. Thesis and anti-thesis when real solutions exist and are not found when the T&A grinds together.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/progressive-duke-to-merge-while-building-more-coal/