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Forum Post: First Briefing on Drone Program

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 18, 2012, 12:10 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today hosted a Congressional briefing to examine the United States’ policy regarding the use of armed drones. U.S. drone strikes are estimated to have killed thousands of people. In Pakistan have killed an estimated 3,378 people; in Yemen such strikes are estimated to have killed as many as 1,952 people. Drone strikes in Somalia have killed as many as 170 people. The first U.S. drone strike took place in 2002.

Over the past four years, drone strikes have increased in number dramatically and are occurring in countries such as Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen. In many cases, these drone strikes are occurring far from any internationally recognized battlefield. Despite claims by the administration that the strikes cause few – if any – civilian casualties and are vital to our national security, there is increasing evidence that such strikes cause significant harm to civilian populations and serve as a powerful recruitment tool for terrorists and other forms of Anti-American groups.

Thus far, Congress has been denied the right to read the legal framework used by the Administration to justify the drone strikes. This means that these strikes are being carried out with virtually no transparency, accountability or judicial review. Victims or targets of the strikes are denied the right to due process. Innocent civilians and American citizens are getting the death penalty without so much as a trial. We do not know what measures, if any, the Joint Special operations Command or the Central Intelligence Agency have for recognizing harm to civilian populations or to conduct investigations of who was killed.

This is the new war. It is defined less by geography, than technology. This change in definition allows the President – Democrat or Republican – to concentrate the power of declaring war into his or her hands. This change in war governance also allows the President to bypass the now out of date legal and constitutional infrastructure that was constructed to ensure war is a last resort, not a first resort. This is a critical time for us to stand up and say “we see what is happening here and we won’t stand for it.”

You can watch the full briefing here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_UFggJCO-o&feature=youtu.be

49 Comments

49 Comments


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[-] 15 points by beautifulworld (22236) 2 years ago

Thanks for posting this. We need to keep shining a light on the disgrace that these drone attacks bring to our humanity.

[-] 2 points by jbgramps (159) 2 years ago

Under the general heading of drones. Austin, TX is hosting a Formula 1 race this week-end at the new race track. Crowds of 250K – 300K people are attending. Most folks from overseas where Formula 1 racing is more popular. Anyway, the point is the cops are using drones to keep monitor the crowd. I saw a news story about an Austin company who makes drones for military, law enforcement and civilian use. Anyone can buy one.

My concern is maybe within ten years or so drones will be everywhere. These things can hover, move around very fast, fly at very low and high altitudes. It’s bad enough that the military uses them, but when law enforcement and civilians get them you can be monitored at all times in real time. Not a good thing.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22236) 2 years ago

It's really sick, actually.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

If you really want to be afraid, you should look at the hummingbird drones which fly and look like a bird, but have a camera on them.

[-] 0 points by jbgramps (159) 2 years ago

I’ve seen them. The ones used in Austin for the F1 race were like helicopters with eight or so propellers. The new report I saw showed them darting and hovering like a hummingbird. There were a couple of stories a few months back about Texas A&M having a drone R&D facility. Some of the students were expressing concern about seeing them around campus.

Big brother is here more than ever.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3316) 2 years ago

Yes, 'keep shining a light on the disgrace that these drone attacks bring to our humanity'. Always speak 'Truth To Power'! Never Give Up! Go Occupy!

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

More drone crimes

http://news.yahoo.com/rare-look-obama-decides-send-drones-kill-americans-031832960.html

End the phony war on terror, end the drone crimes.

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3316) 1 year ago

'Barack Obama, The Drone Ranger' - http://www.nationofchange.org/barack-obama-drone-ranger-1359902503 and thanks for your rather shocking article. Never Give Up Exposing The Warmongers! Occupy Peace!

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Anytime. Love the drone ranger. LOL

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3316) 1 year ago

'Drones & Torture - Brennan & Kiriakou' - http://www.nationofchange.org/brennan-and-kiriakou-drones-and-torture-1360247817 - from which -

'John Brennan and John Kiriakou worked together years ago, but their careers have dramatically diverged. Brennan is now on track to head the CIA, while Kiriakou is headed off to prison. Each of their fates is tied to the so-called war on terror, which under President George W. Bush provoked worldwide condemnation. President Barack Obama rebranded the war on terror innocuously as “overseas contingency operations,” but, rather than retrench from the odious practices of his predecessor, Obama instead escalated. His promotion of Brennan, and his prosecution of Kiriakou, demonstrate how the recent excesses of U.S. presidential power are not transient aberrations, but the creation of a frightening new normal, where drone strikes, warrantless surveillance, assassination and indefinite detention are conducted with arrogance and impunity, shielded by secrecy and beyond the reach of law.'

If any other country on earth did such things, the US would be in the front rank of those who'd condemn such lawless behaviour - we'd hope. Never Give Up Exposing Hypocrisy and Illegality! Occupy Integrity!

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

We will reap what we've sown on that drone shit. WE must force an end to the droning, & the war on terror which is used to justify droning.

Keep fighting, follow Code Pinks lead!

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3316) 1 year ago
[-] 5 points by WiccanRevolutionary (63) from South Charleston, OH 2 years ago

But the Democrats are anti-war, right? Too many millions fall for that every election...

[-] 4 points by 99nproud (2697) 2 years ago

The people must make our government antiwar. Both parties must be forced. Large scale protests are the best weapon we have.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Exactly!

[-] 3 points by gsw (2733) 2 years ago

Congress won't stop Obama drones.

In short term saves troops. "Emmerson argued that the Washington’s claim that it can target for assassination with drones anybody, anywhere in the world because it is an international conflict was indefensible." Long term will be blow back. http://news.antiwar.com/2012/10/25/un-to-establish-ongoing-investigations-into-obamas-drone-war/

[-] 3 points by WiccanRevolutionary (63) from South Charleston, OH 2 years ago

Every drone strike is a war crime. Thank you for the link.

[-] 2 points by WiccanRevolutionary (63) from South Charleston, OH 2 years ago

I hope this trial goes through. I hope that the U.S. is ordered to stop these strikes. Since Congress won't do it, and I've seen no evidence of them wanting to, hopefully, the U.N. will.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Even if Congress were to weigh in on the drone strikes.... they'd probably just vote YES for it like the warmongers they are.

Congress is corrupt to the core.

And while they might not be the group currently approving the drone strikes, they have refused to pass legislation to hold anyone accountable.

Sadly there are not a lot like Dennis in Congress and he is leaving very soon.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Drone warfare should be protested by everyone - it is the new growing crime against humanity - added onto the existing crimes of resource wars.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Drone warfare should be protested by everyone", is absolutely true and I completely agree that "it is the new growing crime against humanity". As such, how much longer can we hide from its horrific effects ?

WARNING : Very Strong Material and potentially upsetting :

fiat lux ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Was that a drone attack? or a guided air to surface missile launched from a fighter jet - targeted by ground lazer? Is there current shooting back and forth between Gaza and Israel? Was the military leader of Hamas a legitimate target?

Look War Sucks - ALL WAR SUCKS So let us advocate for peace.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Was that a drone attack" ? - I heard that it was. Reports said that there were no planes heard but people were pointing to a drone. In any case, take a look at the faces of the people in the video. I don't know the full details but perhaps you have more details about the attack (it was hardly "war"!). I think that any lasting "peace" can only come from facing truths and as such append :

fiat pax ...

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I stand here as someone who has challenged the polices of the Bush administration and opposed taking this country to war based on lies.

I stand here as an American.

Someone who stands for the rights guaranteed by the constitution.

Become involved in this issue!

Our country's freedom is at stake whenever any one person in this country can arrogate themselves the power of life and death.

THIS IS NOT A SMALL MATTER.

We see what is happening here and we won’t stand for it.

  • Dennis Kucinich
[-] 3 points by john23 (-272) 2 years ago

Honestly in politics...a rare thing.

[-] -3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

We MUST denounce the fear mongering 'war on terror' propaganda that has created the atmosphere that allows acceptance, silence & support of the people for these military acts, & other rights violations.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

You don't even think the drone strikes are war crimes. You are a joke who preaches for a one world government.

You have constantly gone around making excuses for these crimes while simultaneously making hypocritical comments.

Get your act together.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I can say the same thing as Dennis Kucinich

"I stand here as someone who has challenged the polices of the Bush administration and opposed taking this country to war based on lies."

i've been speaking out against all this illegal war shit since the Bush era. I've been denouncing the roots the entire time. Only you are ignorant enough to not see that. Right now one of the roots is the man in charge who has not even once denounced these illegal policies that are mentioned in this entire post. The same man who has been approving of them and bragging about them. There is a lot to blame.

"Our country's freedom is at stake whenever any one person in this country can arrogate themselves the power of life and death. THIS IS NOT A SMALL MATTER. We see what is happening here and we won’t stand for it."

Do you think the drone strikes are war crimes? Do you think the president has any role in war? And how does that reflect on your opinions on the previous administrations? It seems so easy for you to say Bush as president could control illegal acts of war - which is true and he is entirely at blame for crimes under his administration- but you act like Obama has no control and all wrong doing is someone else's fault. THE PRESIDENT HAS POWER whether you want to believe that or not.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I ain't mentioned Bush or Obama. I aint mentioned Dems or Repubs. I protest all military actions & have since marching against the MX (before you were born boy).

I protest this Admin and denounce for these actions, and the rights violations they have continued. I am with UFPJ. I don't need to prove anything to your partisan ass. You mention only repubs who ain't in power anymore.

There is still a right wing at work, spewing the fear mongering 'war on terror' propaganda! You still remain silent on the root of the problems you pretend to oppose. THAT is the only thing we disagree on.

Continue Ignoring the repub crimes in that regard and I will know you are a partisan.

Oh. And you ain't Kucinich. Not by any stretch of the imagination. LMFAO.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Do you think drone strikes are war crimes? Why not?

If they are wrong then they are war crimes. Plain and simple.

"He's protesting war! Quick! Call him a republican!" - that's what you seem like all the time. You are simple minded and use party politics to define everything.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You brought up party! I said we must denounce propaganda! Which you still ignore because you know it is the right wing at the center of that effort!

Which is why you stay quiet about it.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

You have gone on this forum calling me a republican for about a year. Suggesting I brought up party is you being ignorant.

Which is something you excel at.

You don't even think the drone strikes are war crimes. You're a classic excuse maker.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Actually, that's not quite accurate. He's only been on the forum a little less than six months.

But it sure SEEMS like a year, lol!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Feels like a year.

If you add in the other account VQ had, it feels like it doubles the time.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Heheheh, true.

I saw him talking to himself last week. I realize he was just using his Imagine40 username to bump his thread, but it still was funny. Maybe in the future he'll bust RepugsRtheprob back out and we'll get to see all THREE bumping a thread. For those in the know, it'll be hilarious.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I denounce the drone strikes, & Pres Obama failures. I go further and recognize, denounce the propaganda that creates the atmosphere for their support.

You are silent on that because you know that is republican tactics.

THAT is what makes you a partisan.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I talk issues.... you talk party politics. Plain and simple.

[-] -2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I ain't talkin party politics. I agree with you on denouncing and protesting the military actions, and the rights violations.

I also submit we must fight the propaganda! That is the "ISSUE" you refuse to agree on. That you ignore and have been silent on.

Plain & simple indeed.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I am saying the wars are happening for other reasons and continually challenge the "official" stories the government dishes out. I am fighting the propaganda by doing that.

When they try to pass off drone strikes as good, necessary, and suggest they are legal.. and I am calling them war crimes... I am fighting the propaganda.

how you continually miss that is outrageous.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Money in politics? Gov stories/lies regarding war? Yeah I'm with you on that. Once again I agree with you.

But that is not the anti muslim, fear mongering 'war on terror' propaganda.

I have failed to make you understand. Again. I think you might understand but refuse to say so because you can't get beyond beatin up on one politician.

Perhaps it is too complicated for me to explain, or you to understand.

Maybe you have heard stories about thered scare, orthe anti communist fear mongering? If so then you should know that we lost that potent tool, and eventually replaced it with other talk, a new enemy (muslim terrorists).

Well those that criticize the Pres initial foreign trip as an "apology tour" are the fear mongering propagandists.

Understand?

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

This is an overarching government problem, governments have been using fear as a weapon for as long as they have been around and the type of system is meaningless.

Get off your l vs r paradigm and get into reality

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Great. I don't criticize what you do say. I support and agree with what you say, and with what kucinich says.

The problem is you can't bring yourself to recognize the reality that fear mongering propaganda is at the root of all wars.

Propaganda is at it's roots! Identify who is spewing it, denounce them, ridicule them, And if we are successful we will go a long way to stop all the things you rail against.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Money in politics pays for the propaganda. Damn it's almost like I've posted on that topic a bunch of fucking times on this forum. I have actually.

I constantly question the government's official stories in regards to wars.... aka speaking out against the propaganda.

You are just arguing with me to argue with me now.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You are SILENT on the propaganda. We all denounce the drone strikes. We all march with UFPJ.

fighting, & denouncing the specific pols who are spewing that fear mongering must be called out specifically, all pols who do so regardless of party.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

again my post is verbatim from Dennis Kucinich as have been just about all my posts on drones.

[-] 2 points by occupyitnow (31) 1 year ago

The CIA created the Taliban and Al Qaida and taught them , by example, how to do terror and fund terror through drug dealing. Everything was fine until the Taliban hooked up with Al Qaida and decided to cut into the CIA's poppy field supply in Afghanistan. Suddenly 9/11 happened and these former students of the CIA became linked to it all, just as Saddam got linked to WMDs. All pure bullshit. It is about drugs and oil. Study how the CIA has been terrorizing the world for the past 66 years. Vietnam was caused by their lies. Iraq of course. All they spit out is lies. Congress has to take them to task. Otherwise it falls on the American people to set them straight. Even the police and military are afraid of them. What a mess.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Food 4 Thought on the disconnect: (click on the presentation's screen to advance through the presentation)

What If The People We Send To War Got To Choose Which Wars To Fight?

This short presentation does not cover everything - but there is some good material.

[-] 1 points by lawstudent402 (18) 2 years ago

whats next

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

It's vigilante justice. The admin is pretending they can call it war but even that has legal boundaries. The US even helped shape some of the international laws now being broken. Like our politicians breaking laws in the US, the US is doing it abroad with no less delusions of justification and exceptionalism. The administration and pentagon is murdering because international law isn't getting what they want. I don't think it helps make the case for following domestic law. If we could all just break the law when it doesn't serve us, the end of poverty could also be just around the corner.