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Forum Post: Fine a Strong Military - but with a proper purpose and use.

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 28, 2012, 2:11 p.m. EST by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Fine strong military - keep em at home - ready to defend the country against invasion. Meanwhile while at home they can be incorporated ( really not a bad word ) into renewing rebuilding improving our infra-structure = roads - bridges - power plants - wind turbine or solar energy farms - building sea walls or relocating housing off of flood plains or making them livable with regular flooding - etc etc etc etc.

130 Comments

130 Comments


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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

Good post, DKA. With 560 (or more) bases overseas we really need to focus on this. I am tired of watching episodes of House Hunters International where military workers are purchasing expensive home in exotic regions of the world. Last night, for instance, a military personnel was looking for a residence in Pisa, Italy, because, of course, we need military in Pisa, Italy! Right? WTF?

560 bases around the world? Where? Why? This is sick stuff. We leave our children and elderly in poverty, 1 in 7 on food stamps, 49 million with no health insurance, etc. etc., to support an over-bloated military? We need to wake up and re-structure the priorities of our society. Your suggestion is a completely sane one.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

As you have probably seen, the award-winning documentary "Why We Fight" does an incredible job laying this out. It is ASTOUNDING.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (18252) 1 year ago

Re. the "ASTOUNDING" - 'Why We Fight' :

Happy 2013 & peace, contentment and righteous militancy to you 'tr'.

cave - bellum que se ipsum alit ...

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Cheers shadz. Thanks very much for posting that link. Such an important film for all to see.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Thanks for posting these. I have learned a lot from your links. Some day I would love to see a list of your best links (not posts but links) organized by subject. Would be a wealth of information. I'm just being selfish because I'm always remember things from weeks ago you recommended but sometimes can't find :)

Thanks for all you do here Shadz for the rest of us. Cheers!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18252) 1 year ago

Consider - "Revealed : How the FBI Coordinated the Crackdown on Occupy", by Naomi Wolf :

I take your point and will get round to that at some point before too long I think. Thanx for your gracious words 'tr' and here's wishing you and yours an excellent 2013 & onwards and upwards for OWS & us all.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Right on :). Cheers!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (18252) 1 year ago

"War Made Easy" - Documentary narrated by Sean Penn :

'War Made Easy' cuts through the dense web of spin to probe and scrutinize the key "perception management" techniques that have played huge roles in the promotion of American wars in recent decades. This guide to disinformation analyses American military adventures past and present to reveal striking similarities in the efforts of various administrations to justify, and retain, public support for war and I append it here as an excellent follow up to 'Why We Fight'.

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Awesome. Will watch it soon. Thanks!!!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

I haven't seen it, so thanks!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (18252) 1 year ago

If you've 100 minutes to spare at some point next year then I ditto 'tr', as I can't recommend the below&^ link enough. A happy 2013 to you and yours and thanx for all your loving, heart centred work for a bw for all on this forum and no doubt elsewhere too. Re. the subject matter of the forum-post I also append fyi :

amor vincit omnia ...

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh wow. It's probably one of the most powerful documentaries I've seen in a long long time. Will motivate you Bigtime. So well done. Couple this film with the fact that a restoration of military budget to 2003 levels would result in 40% reduction in deficit and you pretty much have the situation summe up.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

That is an amazing fact. Why don't they get this? I look forward to watching it. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Oh the military contractors and the politicians they bankroll sure get it. And then they pump us full of fear and push for even bigger budgets. It's a hell of a racket. Then combine that with consumerism. Some days I just want to see the whole thing fall to pieces so we can start again. Then I realize that the founder designed a great system. We just need to unseat the hijackers -- the corporatists who are fucking with our heads, our environment, our economy and our government.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

I think a new system is in order. I think this system, capitalism, no longer works for the globalization and technological revolution that we now face. It burgeoned out of the Industrial Revolution and I think it will fade away on it's own or change to the point that it becomes something new altogether.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Well, we gotta do something other than drifting in the direction we're headed now. What would you prescribe the millions of Americans who get this do tomorrow, next week, next year? What's the solution here?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

The number one thing is to set up an economic system that is fair, that works for all people, that eliminates exploitation, that ensures that everyone has enough to live decently, not necessarily equally. Without that, power is too uneven, and corruption and greed rule the day.

I truly believe that in due time this will develop on it's own, but we can move it along more quickly to end the current suffering of millions of people.

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[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

Did I ever say that a person working 2 hours should make the same as someone working 10 hours? That is very silly. I'm not sure where you are going with any of this.

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[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

Just what I said. Everyone needs to have enough, but they don't all need to be equal. If an economic system doesn't provide enough to all people then it doesn't work. It is a failure. All human beings need to be able to live decent lives.

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[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

It's not complicated. I don't know why you don't understand, but maybe this will help:

http://freepolitica.org/2011/10/31/what-conservatives-ignore-about-wealth/

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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

FOB?

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

10 hours of work by a cardiac surgeon and 10 hours of work by a toll taker do necessitate equal pay.

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[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

a cardiac surgeon is capable of taking toll money but a toll taker is not capable of cardiac surgery.

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[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

Your " argument " is as ridiculous as you are.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

They try to call that "isolationism" like it justifies the military action as an alternative to that.

It's bogus.

Great comment beautifulworld!

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

We need to keep pressing on this issue. Shrinking the military is a must for our economy and world peace. Come on people!

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[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

That is such total American hubris b.s. Take your blind nationalism, full of hatred and fear, somewhere else.

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[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Have you seen the award-winning documentary, "Why We Fight"? It is astounding. You should really check it out. It would set you straight on this issue once and for all.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

Your military has you in shackles and you don't even know it. Economic, social, political and emotional shackles.

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[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Explain why the "strongest military" needs a private security service to watch over them. (hint, blackwater)

Then explain why after ten years of occupation, the road between the "green zone" in Bahgdad and the airport was still not safe to travel for US troops.

Oh, and the "greatest country" is a myth.

Explain why you believe it is the greatest.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

Private security service can be justified on need basis whereas having long-term military personnel on payroll runs afoul of the U.S. populace who want to see small number of active-duty soldiers and do not care about or understand what the U.S. addiction to oil led to.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Read that back to yourself. "...want to see small number of active-duty soldiers.."

Are we on the same page here? A private mercenary force earning triple what the average Marine earns, and you're talking about that making it possible to have less Marines?

Do you have an active thought process functioning at this point in time?

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

If you know what contracting is, you will understand what I wrote. We have managers who work with numbers and people take the numbers at face values. Correct, contractors working for private security outfits make it possible to have fewer Marines on the payroll. It does NOT help with the overall budget but makes the U.S. populace happy and the managers look good.

The justification is that the need is not constant so paying triple will only persist for as long as the need exists and that was promised to be not so long and not so long and not so long and not so long until it is truly long.

The same thing caused not having sufficient Marines with firepower at U.S. Benghazi diplomatic post. If you noticed that during Libya's war, the Chinese used their military vessels to evacuate their nationals but the U.S. chartered commercial vessels. The U.S. is doing the same thing with "privatizing the rocket-launch" business by downsizing NASA and giving SpaceX etc. a chance.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

All you've shown me is that active duty soldiers are being replaced by contractors, probably to save costs down the line.

Have you looked at who set up and controlls blackwater?

Have you ascertained any info as to why contractor dollars to the tune of 2.3 trillion flew out the window under the last admin, in this attempt to "cut costs" and spare the US marines from having to do the job they are trained for?

In short, your argument is shot down in flames. The ball is now in your court.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

Hey, you should know that people who are in business by and large are doing it for PROFITS, regardless of whether it was Blackwater or other business outfits.

I do not need to look at who set up and controlled Blackwater because I had looked into other cases before such as Walter Reed Medical Center's debacle in maltreating wounded soldiers and who owned shares behind the scene. It stank to high heavens but what can I really say, huh? I MUST reserve judgment in deference to the "sovereignty and wisdom" of the U.S. electorate. There you go. The ball was in my court and did I punt it well?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Nope. More of a fend, really.

Not that I blame you. The deeper one looks, the darker the scenario.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

It took teachers to be murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School at Newtown to wake CALPERS up to use its power of finance. What will it really take to wake up the American people? I am very saddened.

Again, we must reserve judgment in deference to the "sovereignty and wisdom" of the U.S. electorate regarding the "fiscal cliff." It is even more important to see whether the U.S. may detonate the "debt bomb" in about two months' time when the music finally grinds to a stop in spite of Timothy Geithner's tricks (also known as extraordinary measures).

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I am saddened too.

It takes a fiscal spliff to get the nation up in arms against a disfunctional congress (hasn't had an approval rating above 18% for years).

Nobody could say that Obama isn't trying. But he's up against some stiff paid shills for big finance.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thank you - for the call to reality - to wake-up. Later.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Maybe you can explain why the greatest military power in the world still can't defeat an ill equipped Taliban force after 11 years of fighting?

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

Our "ally" Pakistan has sovereignty over territories that the Taliban and al Qaeda can escape to and hide whenever they encounter stiff attacks in Afghanistan. Pakistan, being nuclear-armed, with extremist armed insurgents, AND often teetering on the brink of disintegrating politically itself, is extremely dangerous to be pushed to clean up their supposedly sovereign territories.

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[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The correct answer is we don't want to win. We need an excuse to stay there, to continue to enrich the military industrial complex, to insure that Afghanistan's 90% share of the world's opium supply remains constant, and their trillions of dollars in mineral resources are developed.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

It is NOT true that the U.S. wants to insure Afghanistan provide opium to the world. Opium poppies are probably the most profitable crop that the Afghans can grow in their impoverished geographical environment. The policy of burning opium poppy fields ran into stiff local opposition and was rescinded. Without local support, there is NO chance that the war on insurgency can be won.

The mineral resources can be a blessing for Afghanistan and a ticket to escape from poverty if they are properly managed and developed and provide wealth to the Afghan people. That is predicated on a non-corrupt strong and stable government so that is what we including Afghanistan's neighbors should all hope for and work towards.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

It is true. The Taliban successfully managed to cut Afghanistan's opium crop by 90% in 2001. Quite a coincidence that we invaded a few months later, got opium production back up to the 2000 level, then doubled production again by 2007.

http://prof77.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/marja_28schmidt6001.jpg?w=500&h=657

[-] 2 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

On this point, reducing opium output from Afghanistan is in the interest of the U.S. You must not believe that we in the U.S. enjoy the crimes that come with the trafficking and consumption of dope derived from opium. The 2001 dip in opium production could have been the effect of the onset of the war in Afghanistan. It could also have been a form of punishment used by the Taliban against some Afghans as the Taliban escaped to Pakistan.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Opium is harvested in the spring and summer. By fall we invaded.

How does the Taliban purchase the weapons to kill U.S. and coalition forces? With opium lending and distribution profits. Explain the logic to the thousands of military families who lost their sons.

http://prof77.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/ever-wonder-why-the-us-is-in-afghanistan-the-planet%E2%80%99s-foremost-narco-state/

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

We have problems with the Taliban's extremist philosophy -- they were the ones who blasted away the Buddha statue that was considered a world cultural heritage and their imposition of Shar'ia. We do not have problem with the destruction of opium poppies but before we do that we need to figure out how to support the livelihoods of the Afghan people in a different way. Maybe the Taliban still has an interest in cleaning up the opium problem and taking care of the Afghan people.

To our families who lost their sons and daughters in Afghanistan: they were sent to fight a war that cannot be won (limited fumigation cannot work long-term) so they sacrificed for a noble cause but the world is not a place designed for noble people because there is religious fanaticism haunting the minds of people.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Still waiting for your response to the families who lost their sons.

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[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

We are told Al Qaeda planned 911. The Taliban aren't Al Qaeda. Can you name any successful Taliban attacks on U.S. soil?

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[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

I can't think of any Taliban attacks on U.S. soil either. So why are we still there after 11 years? It only took 4 years to beat both the Japanese and the Germans.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2815) 1 year ago

Both Japan and Germany in World War II had centralized leadership so nuclear bombs on cities and utter destruction of the leadership bunker did the job. There were well-defined targets and leadership people who could call an end to the hostilities. They were more like herds amenable to domestication because of their homogeneity and trait to follow the leader so controlling the leader suffices.

In Afpak, these are absent or nearly absent. There are also religious fanatics galore with tribal enforcements. The structure there is too fragmented for quick cleaning up.

Al Qaeda is still in Afpak. Bin Laden was succeeded by his deputy. Afghanistan's government is still not very strong to be able to withstand the onslaughts of the insurgents. Improving its ability to control Afghanistan is the goal being worked towards via the continued presence of ISAF.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

That still doesn't explain why we're there. Al Qaeda has been driven out, Bin Laden dead.

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[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The form of government and their boundaries should be up to the people of that region. It's none of our business.

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[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

An entire region didn't allow an attack. Just a handful of Afghans in the Taliban leadership even knew about it.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The Mujahideen were trained by the CIA.

They are a paid mercenary force, just like the blackwater boys. They also support the Taliban. They played a part in the assassination of Libya's leader.

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[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I guess if they wore the sponsor's shirt, there'd be less conjecture.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

That is so childish. The greatest country in the world, huh?

1 in 7 on food stamps, 49 million with no health insurance, 22% of children in poverty, 300 million guns floating around, a culture of consumerism, declining wages for the past 40 years, high unemployment, CEO's who earn 343 times the wage of the average worker, 1/2 of all Americans earning less than $26,000 per year, bottom half of Americans own 1% of the wealth, top 1% of Americans own 36% of the wealth, $1 trillion in credit card debt, $1 trillion in student loan debt. Please. And how does America rank in life expectancy, infant mortality, math, science, and on and on?

Give me a break. People like you are what prevent us from improving what could be a great nation.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Very well said. Problemsolver is quite deluded.

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[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

You are kidding right? We live in something very close to a military state and you are completely clueless.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Tell it like it is. Painful as that may be. OK falling over now - take care - catch ya later.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

That is true to a certain extent. But there reaches a point, with everything, of diminishing returns. The point where that lust for power and control that got you the power is the very thing that gets one to lose it.

We are well into that point. We have become our own worst enemy

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Greatest country? For whom? Been out of the country for awhile?

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[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Contrary to your belief, America is run by criminals.

If you're basing your future hopes on criminals, then I wish you luck.

You'll surely need it.

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[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The "core of Americans" are not in control.

Address that issue. Until then, you have a corporatocracy that controls the POTUS, the SCOTUS, the pentagon, and the congress.

All I can say is, Good Luck.

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[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Honorable? The Native Americans have been waiting for that time to come. Kindest? The African Americans have been waiting for that time to come.

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[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Where did you imagine that from?

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

How many treaties did the honorable Americans break? I'm ashamed of the Americans on this point. A national disgrace.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

"They" are too diverse to categorize that simply.

Which "They" are you referring to? Bronx? Wisconsin? Califorinian? Ohioin? The list goes on and on and on.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If it can be saved from copoRAT misrule - perhaps.

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[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And what would that be(?) - don't hurry your answer - I am gonna fall over for awhile now.

[+] -4 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

good post? that was a response to me. the dk's ego had to post it as a topic.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

Projection, a little?

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[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

U don't like the topic?

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thx - nice comment - yes we really need to get our priorities straightened out - and as you say - reorganize/restructure our resources. What the hell are we doing with all of these military bases? Keeping foreign governments in line under threat of ............... WTF

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

What does the size of our military say of our society, of us as a people?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That our priorities are really screwed up? Or that we really need serious help in developing better problem solving skills? Both and more?

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (21472) 1 year ago

Both and more!

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - both and more - so much work to do - but the longer it is put off the nastier it will be to address.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Obviously, but by what authority?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

A little vague on your comment/question.

[-] 2 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

By what authority do we do anything with the military or anything else? We are not united under legal process adequate to effect what you suggest.

Love the proposals, but they need a valid strategy to be effected.

[-] 1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

We sort of tried that in the 1990s. Humanitarian efforts in Haiti, Somolia, Bosnia. And we ended up having 9/11. And the Army Corp of Engineers is about as bloated as any other government agency

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You think 9/11 is related to humanitarian efforts in Haiti, Somolia, & Bosnia.?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

It would be interesting to know what those people are thinking..

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"those people"? You mean Haitians, Somolis, & Bosnians?

What they think about what?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

I was thinking about the islamic extremists who committed 9/11.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

& why did you mention Haiti, Somolia, & Bosnia.?

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

Itis a little hard to rule the world from home.After all this is Imperialism or did I miss something?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

woh woh slow down.

You're sounding way too logical here. That sounds way smarter than killing people and blowing up cities.

Nice post!

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thanks - we have such awesome tools being so badly misused - we have such awesome potential and it is not being used worse it is being ignored or hidden.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thanks - we have such awesome tools being so badly misused - we have such awesome potential and it is not being used worse it is being ignored or hidden.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

it is being ignored and hidden.

Why do several people on the forum question me like I'm a bad guy when I say that? Most of my posts when I talk about war there is someone questioning me like I'm a bad guy. It's weird.

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I never denied that. I said the wars as they've been carried out are not a solution for the problems you listed.

Read my comment about the correlation between destabilization/war and their side effect - rise of extremism.

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I never said "grumpy old men" so do not try to quote me like that.

I said they had nothing to justify their actions.

Do you have some kind of adjective preference?

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Yah I stand by that comment.

Should I have said assholes instead of disgruntled? Was the term madness not good enough? Was calling them terrorists not enough for you?

Nice trolling by the way. You're really going the next step with this.

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[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I never said 9/11 happened because of grumpy old men, you clouse.

Seriously, what's with the trolling?

Read my direct quote again. It's way different than what you're claiming I said.

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[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I stand by all my comments.

Again what point are you trying to prove? Because if your point is trying to suggest I used the terms grumpy... not only is that a false point to make, but it is also a dumb point to go that out of your way to make. So do you have some other point you're trying to make or are you just going to copy and paste my comments?

Why am I still responding to you on this?

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

not once did I do that. You asked me why 9/11 happened. I said they had nothing to justify their actions.

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

off the top of my head I think it was around 3,000 people.

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[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Goodle it if you don't know. Do you have a point you're trying to make? Get to the point.

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[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

this is exactly what I was talking about in my comment with DKA.

I never even saw the post you're talking about. What exactly are you accusing me of?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Problem Solver - is not - a problem solver. Don't know who it is - but it is here playing some sort of convoluted game of it's own - I wouldn't let "it" concern you.

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[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I do not know. Misunderstanding from way back that never got sorted out? I do know as do you that our government is truly fucked-up - Dems ( dinos ) Reps ( rinos ) and even perhaps independent ( iinos ? ) to a lesser extent. This is pretty much our current government make-up Major parts = R&D ( true and false allegiances in both ) and then a smattering of independents that may be true to their representation but are largely negated by the corruption in the system in which they are trying to work.

I think it healthy to point out the dysfunctions and to publicly chastise all of government for it's collective failures and wrong thinking.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

That's why I've always respected you on the forum. Plus I find I widely agree with you as well on your posts.

Sometimes I do enjoy the debate on the posts I mentioned before, because I like debate, but the people I mentioned often eventually resort to accusing me of being a republican (which makes no sense because republicans are pro-war) to the wilder accusations of being a Gaddafi loyalist to a Taliban Supporter, to a dictator supporter of Saddam. People really resort to that because they do not want to accept facts about these wars. It's crazy. It's extremism. And they don't even realize it.

Like I've said before; the rise of extremism is a common side effect of destabilization and war. We're seeing that on both ends. It's really scary. From terrorism to over reactions abused for corporate and Wall Street profits.

If anyone wants to doubt the correlation between destabilization/wars and their side effect of extremism just look at Germany after World War 1. Look at the Taliban after the 80's. Al Qaeda and extremist groups are growing in Libya and Iraq.

These wars are not solutions. We need to start looking into alternatives to bombing cities and towns and killing people. We need to turn to more of a moral obligation to respect life like we claim to preach. I think Dennis Kucinich's idea of forming a Department of Peace would be a great first step. I think abiding by law instead of fear would greatly help as well.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Good comment ( not because of the compliment {:-]) ) the people need to see the wrongs that are committed - here at home and around the world as well - wrongs committed by a corrupted government. This society is ill - is dying - and much of it all runs back to one source/motivation - GREED run wild and purchasing our government so that GREED can do what ever it wants. Even Genocide followed By it's own Suicide as it belatedly discovers that it has made the world unlivable and all of the money it collected along the way - can not be eaten.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Yah realizing the future of climate change is really blowing my mind.

It's hard to process and that is why so many deny.

[-] 2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I had a question proposed to me the other day about climate change.

The question that was asked was - what temperature do you want the earth to be at? I had to think for a moment and really couldn't come up with an answer.

Maybe you might be able to shed some light on this question. It seems like a "legitimate question" though

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We have a lot of work ahead of us - even if all power and industry and transportation went immediately and truly green today - there are things coming from global warming climate change that must be faced/addressed.

Like either relocating people off of flood plains - coastal or inland - and/or making the housing liveable in the middle of record breaking floods - building sea walls where needed and practical.

Looking into fresh water preservation as well as distribution - because of coming droughts ( nasty drought 3 years(?) in Texass now? and covering 2/3rds of the USA this year? ) - what about also doing something about capturing and storing massive storm flood waters - for later use. Look at the channels ( artificial ) in LA for directing storm water runoff - what if that was directed into collection and pumping stations ( one example ) - just think about capturing that water in areas normally in short supply during a flash flood Arizona(?) - where else(?) Colorado(?) any other places? That is also depending on shifts/changes in weather that continue with the global climate change.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

All great ideas!

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thx - and there is so much more - but the rub is getting any of them acted upon.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

when my lease is up I'm going to move next to my work so I don't have to drive my car across town everyday.

That's one thing that's always bothered me. I'm against the war but I use the oil everyday. I plan to stop that.

As far as the rest of what you said, I live in a red state, and even many of the college graduates here don't believe in Climate Change. It will be tough to get that going in my state. There was an effort to get a pipeline moved away from the aquifer but not canceled.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Location Location Location - good move to want to reduce personal use of fossil fuel - you seem to be living ( a red state ) where education is lacking in getting out to the public rather then slanted ( heavily ) propaganda/lies. Location Location Location.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

they treat climate change like a political debate topic here in my state. Even many of those who back climate change aren't fully aware of the danger it brings. I don't even know if I'm fully aware of the danger it brings. It's hard to accept, because in a way it's kind of the "end of the world"

We're talking the collapse of ecosystems here you know. On this path the future only brings larger and larger levels of pollutants and increased carbon levels.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is all encompassing and all aspects of weather need to be considered. It is a huge change that is happening and not all of it will be static change - like the current 3 5? year Texass drought this last year the drought included 2/3 of the USA and Mn where I live has been in a moderate drought on and off now for several years and has not caught up to lost water at any time in that period. There will be nasty storms - 30 some odd tornadoes across the south on Christmas day Hurricane Sandy followed directly by a Nor'easter. These are things we are gonna have to learn how to live with - with better made housing located more wisely as well as other necessary public works.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the drought is kicking my state's ass. If it continues through spring and summer a lot of farms will be 100% fucked instead of 30 to 70% fucked like they were this year. And that was after floods from the previous year brought sand and muck all over several crops.

Weather is going crazy.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

currently my rub is getting trolled in my forum posts and attacked and accused of being a republican. It's nonstop with VQ and ProblemSolver and some of the others on this forum.

Who would have known being the anti-war and anti-wall street guy would face so much criticism.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Problemsolver is no such thing and is playing a game - neither here nor there - seemingly - and is I suspect some sort of troll. VQ? has a tendency to act prior to looking at information that has been presented.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

he does what vq does because I openly denounce the democratic party. But he refuses to accept where I have also openly denounced the republican party.

Either way the amount of trolling he does is ridiculous. He is one of the people who has accused me of being a Gaddafi supporter and Al Qaeda supporter in previous conversations where I have opposed the war.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I try to bend over backward in pointing out the ills equally and then to make sure to point out the corpoRAT influence/loyalty. Things will be different if we can ever get past party and down to talking issues.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Exactly.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

unfortunately boss the ills ain't equal. One party unashamedly, proudly pushes the conservative policies of the 1% wall st war mongering oligarchs.

The other party fails when some cave in to support those policies, but many are challenging the enemies of the 99%.

No repubs are in the progressive caucus.

To suggest the ills are equal is a disservice to intelligent people everywhere. Trev may support that approach but he is transparently partisan in his silence on repub crimes.

The MSM takes part in the same false equivalency. They feel being fair means criticizing both parties the same. But that is only fair if it is true that the parties are equally guilty..

And obviously it cannot be true. The parties cannot be equally wrong. So failure to identify the real enemy strengthens our pro 1% enemies by weakening the already weak pro 99% pols who challenge the 1% wall st war mongering oligarchs.

So consider this "issue" the false equivalency issue!

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Here are some issues that might illuminate the reality of how one party is vastly better than the other. Not perfect by any measure! & certainly still requireing our criticism and pressure to serve the 99%. But definitely not ill equally.

http://www.nationofchange.org/top-12-political-fallacies-2012-1356865713

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

That makes WAY too much sense to be considered. Please, lets focus on the cave dwellers with million dollar cluster bombs.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I like to think of positive uses for tools we have in existence. Through positive action - one way or another those cluster bombs may well be taken out of possible action/use.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

No. While we should bring them all back to the U.S. their job is not to be construction workers. They should be put on the borders.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure - why not - hey - where do you live? Maybe they could protect your borders.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I can support much of this but would also like to see regular civilians being used for a lot of these tasks.

And what about policing the planet against bad guys.?

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Military personnel were civilians and will be again at some point in the future - so why shouldn't the military train them teach them something more than saluting and shooting? There are projects that some places need but do not have the money for - why not - bring in the military as training and needed good works for a community?

Policing the planet? Don'tcha think that every nation on earth has that responsibility? Why should anyone even ourselves figure that it is only a job for the USA?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree with the use of military (& former military) for training and work. I just don't want to use the soldiers to replace regular workers too much.

Policing MUST occur (Just as we must police out streets) I agree it should not be just America. I propose a UN police force made up of US and other troops along with US superior military tech.

The UN would have to change greatly.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Nice post, DKA.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (34961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

HEY GF {:-]) G-Day to you. and Thx.