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Forum Post: Education Profitization Cheerleaders

Posted 5 years ago on Oct. 2, 2012, 11:21 a.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"Reuters has the scoop on an event that took place earlier this week where nearly a hundred education profiteers — ranging from executives at testing companies to private equity moguls eager to invest in education technology — met at a swanky Manhattan club to cheer on the privatization of the U.S. education system:"

I hope there was a protest here.




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[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

There was. But small and we need more informed people to stop this outrageous effort to hurt low income students and bust teachers unions.

Good post thx.


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

it's profit motivated

I realize I'm stating the obvious

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

People over profits!

[+] -9 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Too few here, either don't understand, or don't care what's happening in the States and how it effects the nation.

Real live tyranny in Michigan?

Pffft, they say, it doesn't matter..

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

It matters. Michigan, & where you are as well. (where are you?)

[+] -9 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Michigan of course.

I've been asking others to report on their States too, but response has been weak at best, and limited to the obviously left leaners among us.

And so the grip of "right wing" tyranny tightens around here.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

I thought you were a michigander.

I am surprised at all the right wingers. I suppose that simply shows the fear they have for this forums possible success. Not that there is much influence/success. I think there might be more without the disrupting infiltrators.

[+] -9 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

They've spent the better part of the last year taking focus off of Wallstreet.

Talk about irony.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

There are several real occupiers here. but certainly more in the streets when I get out there. They can't spew their right wing nonsense in person.

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Their constant presence here, has driven many away over the last year.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

Just a setback for the progressives on the site. I assume.

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

A whole lot of them never came back.

The trolls are like bad pennies though. They change their name and come "right" back.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

I know. I'm gonna challenge them myself as best I can. You are a frequent warrior. Good luck and much strength.

[+] -9 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Same to you.

You'll notice none had a word to say here.

they are attacking unions in the USPS thread.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

I think they are a little shaken by the continued leftist efforts in the face of their coordinated efforts against the left.

They will try to create reasons to have leftists banned. Best to avoid personal attacks and dogged responses perhaps.

Good luck.


[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

They are wining and dining, as they plan to eat our children.


[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

There's a lot of cynical bastards around here that don't have problem with it either.

It's well under way though.



[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

What a bunch of dipshits.

[-] 0 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 5 years ago

It`s already privatize

[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

I don't think private firms could do much worse than the gov has at educating children.

[-] -2 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

"I do think private firms could do much better than the gov has at educating children"
.........................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,david & charlie koch

[-] -3 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

The sad state of education is all the gov. Doing they have been on charge since the beginning. If you think there's nothing wrong with way things are then your high. I don't see how tossing more money at doing things the same way will change anything.

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

Have you read any actual studies of the success of "charter" schools ? Or any of the schools that teach the earth is 6000 years old or that "creationism" is real ?

[-] -2 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

Look plenty of retarded shit is taught in public schools ad I'm sure an equal amount in charter, that doesn't change the fact public schools are pathetic and have a track record to show it. If charter schools produce the same results as public then we stop funding them as well. You want to protect the status quo and elites in public education. They are paid for by me I want results not excuses.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Read 2nd paragraph...Charters rarely do better than pubic schools 17 percent, but 37 percent do worse. Most have no significant difference.


[-] -3 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

People should have choice, I thought progressives were all about freedom of choice?

[-] 1 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Please compare apples to apples.

In the United States, which has muddled along in the middle for the past decade, government officials have attempted to introduce marketplace competition into public schools. In recent years, a group of Wall Street financiers and philanthropists such as Bill Gates have put money behind private-sector ideas, such as vouchers, data-driven curriculum and charter schools, which have doubled in number in the past decade. President Obama, too, has apparently bet on compe­tition. His Race to the Top initiative invites states to compete for federal dollars using tests and other methods to measure teachers, a philosophy that would not fly in Finland. “I think, in fact, teachers would tear off their shirts,” said Timo Heikkinen, a Helsinki principal with 24 years of teaching experience. “If you only measure the statistics, you miss the human aspect.” Why Are Finland's Schools Successful? The country's achievements in education have other nations doing their homework

By LynNell Hancock

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz28knuyyUA

Teachers in Finland spend fewer hours at school each day and spend less time in classrooms than American teachers. Teachers use the extra time to build curriculums and assess their students. Children spend far more time playing outside, even in the depths of winter. Homework is minimal. Compulsory schooling does not begin until age 7. “We have no hurry,” said Louhivuori. “Children learn better when they are ready. Why stress them out?”

It’s almost unheard of for a child to show up hungry or homeless. Finland provides three years of maternity leave and subsidized day care to parents, and preschool for all 5-year-olds, where the emphasis is on play and socializing. In addition, the state subsidizes parents, paying them around 150 euros per month for every child until he or she turns 17. Ninety-seven percent of 6-year-olds attend public preschool, where children begin some academics. Schools provide food, medical care, counseling and taxi service if needed. Stu­dent health care is free.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz28ko3XwvD

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz28kno3brS


[-] 1 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

In 1963, the Finnish Parlia-ment made the bold decision to choose public education as its best shot at economic recovery. “I call this the Big Dream of Finnish education,” said Sahlberg, whose upcoming book, Finnish Lessons, is scheduled for release in October. “It was simply the idea that every child would have a very good public school. If we want to be competitive, we need to educate everybody. It all came out of a need to survive.”

Practically speaking—and Finns are nothing if not practical—the decision meant that goal would not be allowed to dissipate into rhetoric. Lawmakers landed on a deceptively simple plan that formed the foundation for everything to come. Public schools would be organized into one system of comprehensive schools, or peruskoulu, for ages 7 through 16. Teachers from all over the nation contributed to a national curriculum that provided guidelines, not prescriptions. Besides Finnish and Swedish (the country’s second official language), children would learn a third language (English is a favorite) usually beginning at age 9. Resources were distributed equally. As the comprehensive schools improved, so did the upper secondary schools (grades 10 through 12). The second critical decision came in 1979, when reformers required that every teacher earn a fifth-year master’s degree in theory and practice at one of eight state universities—at state expense. From then on, teachers were effectively granted equal status with doctors and lawyers. Applicants began flooding teaching programs, not because the salaries were so high but because autonomy and respect made the job attractive. In 2010, some 6,600 applicants vied for 660 primary school training slots, according to Sahlberg. By the mid-1980s, a final set of initiatives shook the classrooms free from the last vestiges of top-down regulation. Control over policies shifted to town councils. The national curriculum was distilled into broad guidelines. National math goals for grades one through nine, for example, were reduced to a neat ten pages. Sifting and sorting children into so-called ability groupings was eliminated. All children—clever or less so—were to be taught in the same classrooms, with lots of special teacher help available to make sure no child really would be left behind. The inspectorate closed its doors in the early ’90s, turning accountability and inspection over to teachers and principals. “We have our own motivation to succeed because we love the work,” said Louhivuori. “Our incentives come from inside.”

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz28kpFZ6Uo

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

Excellent. Sounds like a good guideline. How did the deal with the 400 years of slavery/racism of 20% of the student body?

[-] 1 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago
[-] 1 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago


It seems they have a higher work-academic ethic, or higher value on education too.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 5 years ago

Our biggest problem in USA is the continued racist inequities that persist. It extends beyond minorities to any poverty stricken community.

So the Finns didn't have to deal with that. If WE don't deal with that then we will miss the mark.


[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 5 years ago

Maybe charter schools do suck.

"President Barack Obama says the nation’s charter schools “serve as incubators of innovation in neighborhoods across our country,” and issued a proclamation calling this “National Charter Schools Week.”


[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

They couldn't do much worse than public sector has.

[-] -2 points by marvelpym (-184) 5 years ago

Found this

*Charter schools in the study were more effective for lower income and lower achieving students and less effective for higher income and higher achieving students. In addition, charter schools in large urban areas had positive impacts on students’ achievement in math; those outside these large urban areas had negative impacts on achievement.

and this


which had this interesting info: "The Obama Administration’s “Race to the Top” program includes a charter school initiative"

[-] 2 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Charters can't do better than public schools....see the meta-analysis. Easy read.


[-] 1 points by gsw (3142) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

I was surprised none on the school board voted to support the chater school initiative.

Washington State voters have not allowed charter schools in 3 past votes of the people, initiatives.

http://www.amle.org/publications/middleschooljournal/articles/January2008/Article8/tabid/1579/Default.aspx The Supreme Court of WA has said public schools should have a better more stable funding. http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/10/03/2712379/charter-schools-hurt-funding-to.html

Charters should be able to do mini schools within public schools to augment, and tutor.

Parents can still choose private schools, if they like. For schools that have big issues, poverty schools, Big Business and colleges should focus resources to support those students. 71 percent of Chicago students live in poverty.




[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

A subsidiary of the competitive enterprise institute.

Notorious for disinformation campaigns.


Can you say front group?

How about astroturf?

[-] -1 points by marvelpym (-184) 5 years ago

That Obama guy seems to like them, but then again, he's kinda dumb. You might be right on this one.

[+] -7 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Yeah, except no. That isn't true.

And it will get worse with States "forcing" teachers to teach creationism on the public system.

self destruction, compliments of the teabagge(R)s.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

They know this. This far in the game, I am quite sure that those that support the faux privatization of schools KNOW it is about stealing from the public. Nothing more and nothing less.

They simply want to drag people into the same BS so that no one pays attention to the man behind the curtain.

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Yep.......Coupons paid for with tax dollars.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Exactly. Hand their asses the facts and they go right back to square one and retiterate the same argument they used before.

[+] -7 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

See below.

They start info free bitching about teachers unions.

The same false, argument, I've heard for a year now.

The same argument put forth by those attempting to further profitize education.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

That's what I am talking about. They know they don't have a worthwhile argument and nothing to back them up.

[+] -7 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

They sure do try though............:)

They repeat the same "right" wing talking points, over and over.

Of course they missed everything else on the page.

Like this.


Or this.


[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

We as a nation spend more per student than any nation and our kids are comeing out stupid......if I were you I would worry less about what you think will happen and deal with what is happening

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Yeppers. (R)epelican'ts are still screwing up everything they get anywhere near.

You make education sound like health care. Indeed, the more it gets profitized the worse the outcomes become, and the higher the costs to those who use the "services".

[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

Don't your arms get tired of carrying dem water? Blame everyone else is your mantra, dem teachers unions have had 100% control of education for a long time try and be honest for once and blame the right ones and not just a dem cheerleader

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Excuse me?

Was that an idiotic attempt at an insult?

Nothing like changing the subject, eh?

At least my argument holds water.

Yours? Not so much.


So who's "water" are you carrying?

It sure isn't the students.

[-] -2 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

That's the only attempt your worth. Your argument holds bullshit that's all, you can blame anyone but teachers/unions for the sad state of our education period! You advocate more of the same toss money to a broken system..... Sad

[+] -7 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


Excuse me, but I provided a link that you really didn't comment on.

Instead you provided nothing but low info bullshit, loosely based on only one of the five issues dealt with in the article, yet didn't talk about the one issue you did comment on.

Now that's bullshit..

[-] -2 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

Ohh yea extreme left Wing links make it all ok, you have no trouble calling me on my bullshit don't be shocked when I call you out. Why do you think biased left wing sites are the end all proof to whatever crazy line of shot you are trying to sell. I never post right wing links because they are biased but you think you can do the opposite?

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

So you go strictly on the bullshit in your head?

Good call, and good top know...............................:).

[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

As opposed to the bullshit in yours? Thanks but no thanks. Go sell crazy somewhere else wee all full up here

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


We, as in you, are certainly full of bullshit.

Thanks for admitting it.

[-] -2 points by podman73 (-652) 5 years ago

It's something you wouldn't know anything about honesty, you are full of shit and you wonder why this movement is what it is. You can't beat lies with lies you are just as pathic as the ones you rail against.

[-] -2 points by marvelpym (-184) 5 years ago

Randi Weingarten makes almost $500,000 a year. Dennis Van Roekel, almost $400.000. Sounds pretty profitized to me already.

[+] -8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

So much of what WallStreet does is being ignored.

Remember when this was called OccupyWallStreet?