Drumming and the Occupation
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 6:57 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
The occupation of Liberty Square is a symbol of the growing international movement fighting against neoliberal economic practices, the crimes of Wall Street and the resulting income inequality, unemployment, and oppression of people at the front lines of the economic crisis. More than a week ago we successfully rallied to defend our occupation from eviction. Knowing that the neighborhood we built was important to our movement, occupiers reorganized the space and prepared for eviction defense, community board and local elects pressured Brookfield Properties, and local organizations and unions mobilized their members in defense of Liberty Square. Brookfield and Bloomberg backed down in the face of this joint effort. #ows has international support, and is part of a global movement for economic and social justice that is only just starting to take form. It is within this context that we must drill down, look inward and converse with each other about our actions in this space.
For weeks, occupiers, working groups, individuals from the community board, and neighbors have approached the drummers on the west side of Liberty Square in an effort to involve them in conversations revolving around their constant presence. The drummers have been asked to stop drumming during quiet hours, to not drum during GA, and to allow other music to enter the square. The drummers, who feel that they are bringing rhythm to the revolution and have a voice that must be heard have felt disrespected and disparaged. The situation has been heated. A division grew within the square as well as with our neighbors. On Oct 13th, the General Assembly of Liberty Square passed a resolution to limit drumming times to 2 hours a day, between the hours of 11 and 5 as part of a good neighbor policy. Many drummers rejected this. A group of mediators began to work with the drummers and reached an agreement that they would instead drum for 4 hours per day, from 12pm - 2pm and 4pm - 6pm. The OWS Community Relations team, drummers, mediators, and several local residents from the community board spent weeks listening, building trust, and figuring out ways for drummers to work in solidarity with the occupation. As a result, drumming dropped from consistent 10 + hours a day, but is occurring more than the 2 hours consensed to by the General Assembly, and more then the 4 hours consensed to by the drummers.
In the spirit of consensus and community, mediation is still in process. The working group Pulse has been formed by the drummers and is working to bring forward proposals to the General Assembly of Liberty Square. This issue has been talked about in the park, at the General Assembly, on forums, and emails for weeks. This is an example of how we as a community share space and how we mobilize together to build consensus between all members of a conversation. Drumming has a loud voice in Liberty Square. Pulse is an important piece of our movement - they are integral to marches, morale, and the general mood of energy we have created. But many within Liberty Square feel as though their voice is being drowned out by the drumming, that it has become difficult to have the conversations that they think are important. We have created a small, vibrant and diverse community within the Square - it is natural that some issues would and will arise, but we hope to work together and continue to effect positive change in this place and in this world.
Here's a hint to the drummers: if you're doing something you think is helpful to those around you, and they repeatedly ask you to please stop doing that thing, chances are its not really helpful at all, and in continuing to do it you are simply being self indulgent.
EDITED TO ADD: While my commentary about the drummers was snarky, check out the ideas expressed by BathroomGirl which are brilliantly constructive.
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As a community percussionist for the last 17 years, who has played with groups in 3 continents , including on the streets of NYC...
... I would just like to tell you how wrong you are. In fact, I am sure you are a Tea-Party mole, because anyone who thinks that drums alone make a movement... has not really understood the revolution that is carnaval .
Serious, get a clue. And also... "without drums there is no spirit" .... misses the important point that spirit is spontaneous, whereas never stopping playing is not spontaneous.
this is such bs:Without DRUMS there is no SPIRIT only MATERIAL. MATERIAL = WEALTh which is what we are all fighting. If I can touch the drum, carry the drum and beat the drum and especially if you have to pay 5000 $ for a drumkit and having your own collections it's very material. OWs does exist without drums, it's about the message what message does a drumbeat have? How about some compassion for the people having to listen to drumbeats nonstop? Nonstop loud beating annoying sounds are techniques used in Guantanamo to terrorise prisoners, how can you defend that? Your post is very selfish and egocentric, to claim you're the center of the movement by doing something utterly antisocial is creepy. All that was asked was to drum for only two hours a day, but I guess there's no point in reasonably asking people like you anything. So people should be driven off the square, the GA's authority should collapse and a rift should be created in the movement because of a crappy heartbeat metaphore? You are silencing the movement with noise and using the benevolence and kindness of the GA against it. If some Wall Street guy came up with this, it's a brilliant idea. Catch 22 either let the extremists from lala land ruin it all or use somekind of coersion that will be filmed and shown around the world to prove the movement is divided and falling apart. Just so you can tap your little toy. The movement isn't a body, it's a movement, jeezes.
Please! You are not offering peace with the drums. You are silencing the voices and you are causing those who might otherwise listen to turn away. I am so concerned. This is looking like you are on the senate floor not allowing anyone to speak.
What evidence have you that your not drumming will silence the movement? Back up your claim with evidence. Where has this happened in history?
Has it occurred to anybody that opponents of the occupation could infiltrate the movement and start committing code violations that could give the city justification for evicting everybody from Zuccotti Park? If somebody were to try to do something like that, then their operatives would probably sound a lot like this PeaceStix guy when they rationalized their actions. They wouldn't admit that their purpose was to be divisive and to irritate the park's neighbors and to provide the city with leverage against the occupation. They would talk about DRUMMING being NECESSARY. (Necessary to get the protest evicted.)
start committing code violations? The continued actions of the occupation is that from the get go. They don't need the drummers for that.
Um. OK.
Viva la revolucion, and the drummers!
Does this include playing drums?
Um it is specifically about playing the drums.
Anti-establishment attention-seeking protesters are upset about a faction of anti-establishment attention-seekers within them? Does anybody see the irony in how you can swap "drummers" for "protesters" in this quote and it still makes sense?
Yup. In fact, furthermore, the irony is also contained in the actual article all these comments are for. For instance, do it in the first paragraph in the article. The pot calling the kettle black. They can't have it both ways. Anyway, the drummers situation is to me just a prelude to the showdown that's going to happen over the money and supplies that have come in.
Silly question, given your tone and use of nick: you do realize what Animal Farm stood for, right.
The real question is does OWS know?
Yes, I know. Tell me, have you read hommage to Catalonia?
I'm dying to know what you thought the point of Animal Farm was? I personally think that we're going to see a Pigs v Hens scenario with the drummers and the GA.
Tell me what you think it was and I'll see if I misunderstood.
"All animals are equal." (But some are more equal than others.)
Thats exactly why the movement has no leaders duhh
Then how is the movement going to control the drummers?
The answer is one most disagree with and most don't want to hear. You don't control them.
If the movement has not leaders, then who deleted all of my comments off of the website today and deleted my login ID out of existence?
I love substituting the word "protester" for "drummer"! I guess the protesters issued a PERMIT to the drummers, and the drummers have ignored the permit. And now the protesters are upset about it.
Here's another hypocrisy. I see myself as an occupier of this website (and maybe a few others). When #OWS didn't like my speech, they sent in the admins/moderators (police) to come and drag me off, throw away my goofy signs (my comments), and take down my tent (delete my login ID).
#OWS get over yourselves...this is human nature. Our society works the way any free society works, and it is also the way YOU work!
Brings up a valid point.
The OWS thing is not anarchistic. Some say anarchy is great--others, like Chris Hedges--speak of it negatively. Perhaps in some cases it's semantics. Personally, I like anarchy, though I confess to it being nearly impossible to live anarchically.
The word revolution is being thrown around by some at Zucotti, but I find the word to have negative conotations. All revolutions do is change the hands the power is in. Check and see how the past revolutions panned out.
I have seen a lot of good things with this group, but if the security team gets a bit more forceful, if the paperwork to get funds gets a little more complicated, if the mediators start deleting comments, telling people they can come to Zuccotti, or they are not welcome---it's on it's way to being another political party--another police force, another problem.
Yeah, it's a reading I guess; right now the issue with the drummers is that they're taking all the space, we've have to move most committee meetings out of the park because of the constant noise, and the constant drumming goes against the good neighbor policy we voted on in week 1 already.
The drummers accepted to have a more limited drumming schedule, with 2 2-hour drum circles at noon and 4, proposals they advanced to the GA themselves yesterday.
Also I was mostly wondering whether it was silly red baiting, as too many people read animal farm and forget that Orwell was a communist, his opposition was mainly to stalinism (and I figure other totalitarian offshoots like maoism but he died too early).
The people noisily congregating in Zuccotti Park with the aim of creating a disturbance for the establishment are now upset about the noisy people congregating in their midst who are disturbing the disturbance's establishment.
And now, although all voices are equal, some voices who are more equal than others, due to the workings of the General Assembly, are trying to regulate other voices.
And you're asking why people are bringing up Animal Farm?
The drummers regulated themselves and it's not a matter of being more equal than others: the GA is not a leadership clique, it's fucking everyone in Zuccotti.
Nope, not silly red baiting, my position is that there is enough of that already in the whole nature of the moment. But with that in mind, and also whether or not he drummers may or may not have regulated themselves, it still means everybody is missing some vital point about human nature. And so as noble as the leaderless goal is, it ain't so. Try as hard as you might, and probably you should, but it just ain't so. My problem is the pretending. Be honest about it (not you, but the movement), acknowledge the circularities, the subcultures, and such, including tha there may be inequalities fortunate or not, and you'll be pretty far along in my book, warts and all (and what doesn't have warts?).
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If you really belive this, then GO HOME. You are annoying the hell out of the people who live there, and you have pissed them off enough. You keep their small children up at night, ruin their sleep, and you think you are helping them. Your NOT. So now, stop being so "self indulgent" and GO HOME.
Yup, there is a definitely circularity here. OWS want to complain about the drummers, but refuses to see they are doing the same thing in their own ways.
Not exactly, OWS is trying hard to maintain good relations with the neighbors. They are occupying the park not as an inconvenience or disturbance, but as a way to give their opponents no way to ignore them anymore. The drummers are not trying to get any particular message across, and refuse to do anything to keep a good relationship with either the Manhattan neighbors, or their protester neighbors.
That's odd. I don't try hard to maintain good relations with my neighbors because if I had to it probably means I'm doing something wrong, otherwise it just comes naturally.
Not exactly?? Ok, yeah, right.
So, that make you right and them wrong. Got it. Very logical.
It does not always come naturally! Sometimes it takes work, being flexable, and compromise. No one is wrong and bad if this is so.
Very true. And I like your nickname. It's also very true.
Yes go back home to your Fly-Over State Hovel, Real new Yorkers don't want your Transplanted ass here in the city.
The other day I had a scuffle with one of your tribe about my post name. I told him that it wasn't to imply that people unsympathetic to OWS aren't real new yorkers, but to disprove the totally false assumption that no one from the city supports the movement. We do, lots and lots of us. Lots. We outnumber people who don't support it according to recent polls.
But, on the subject, if no one likes the drummers but the drummers, I'm kind of in agreement with the people who think they should keep it to a minimum. There's all the difference in the world between freedom of speech and freedom of noise.
I don't like the drummers either. I just don't like Transplants who only came what 10-11-12 years ago telling us what to do.
Yeah, well, keep in mind that these people are directing their action against Wall Street, and the VAST majority of people who work on Wall Street are also transplants.
The vast majority of people who work on Wall Street are low level clerks and secretaries, cleaners and security guards, bank tellers and IT staff, and transportation, food, retail, and other service employees who are there because the banks and brokerage houses are there. What, you think that every Master of the Universe type in a custom-made suit answers his own phone, opens his own mail, cooks his own lunch, fixes his own computer, and makes his own coffee? Those low-level workers are from Flatbush, and Whitestone, and Castleton, and Parkchester, and those parts of Manhattan above 96th Street that the transplants seem never to have heard of.
Did it ever occur to you that the financial industry in Manhattan -- that is, "Wall Street" -- provides livelihood to a lot more people than just the 1%, and if you make that go away a whole lot of New Yorkers in the 99% will be without jobs?
Noble and well-intentioned ignorance is still ignorance.
I wouldn't call the wages of a low-level employee, which require that they commute sometimes well over an hour and often live in shoddy neighborhoods with high crime rates, a "livelihood." And it's a specious argument to say that because the service employees of large firms will lose those jobs, they'll automatically lose out on a job altogether. It's the financialization of the American economy that has led to the enormous expansion of low-wage, no benefit service jobs. Maybe a better organized economy will improve their lot. From what I gather, most of what people at OWS are protesting the fact that low-level workers are taken advantage of, and given far less than the companies they work for could afford to give, just because they have no real social power. So give me a break on the whole "ignorance" thing - no one said that the "Master of the Universe" types didn't have any help. We said they aren't acknowledging the humanity of the people who support them.
Touche'
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AMEN
Admire the drummers for their passion. Have an idea: Wondering if the drumming circle just needs to expand all around the city instead of keeping all that passion bottled up in one park. What if the drumming starts at noon at Liberty Park and continues uptown hitting all the parks along the way, washington, tompkins, grammercy, central park at 59th, etc, and ends the day back at Liberty park at 6? Could be a great way to share the passion of the movement and remind people all over the city that exciting things are happening everyday downtown for the 99%. The bigger drumming circle doesn't even have to involve marching, it can be done like a relay race with drummers starting and stopping at agreed upon times and locations. It could create the effect of an echo that spreads around the city, slowly throughout the day. A bigger drumming circle, as described here, is an extension of the human microphone. A bigger drumming circle, as described here is a way to show that nothing can quiet the passion of the movement, especially not internal disagreements. A bigger drumming circle, as described here can be a powerful and harmonious symbol that the people's movement will always grow, it will always have a heartbeat, it will always have a pulse. The 99% should never be silenced, we should instead find the best and most creative ways to amplify our voice. It would be a shame to allow the 1% to use “Quality of Life” arguments to fracture this movement and dictate how and when the people should be permitted to participate in the revolutionary tradition of drumming. Peace and love to all!
Drums are great to have on marches, honestly, I don't know what we would do on the marches with out them. But at the park they need to be respectful of the folks living there full time who need a little more quiet every now and then.
Great idea! Drums... everywhere! Drummer groups all along Bway, sending the occupy message up and down the island. And over the bridge to us in Brooklyn. Drums everywhere! Just not all the time.
thank you for providing constructive advice
Agreed. Great idea. I just loved the drummers when I visited Zuccotti Park. Maybe it's too much in a concentrated area but keep them drumming all over the place. I love it!
This is a good idea. It allows the drummers to drum all day as they wish, and gives the people at the park some space to think. It also brings the movement to more people and other parts of the city - the drumming is really good and reflects well on the movement - but at this point, confined to Liberty, is a little too much of a good thing.
Thanks! I saw a passionate debate about the drumming last week at a General Assembly and I felt so much love for everyone involved. Want the world to see and hear how passionate, creative, beautiful and strong this movement is!
The troubling problem now has the prospect of being solved with BathroomGirl's smart idea; next, you had better convey your idea successfully to the drummers, Bathroomgirl:-) ~acarefreeman
I (heart) bathroomgirl!
It is the "fairy dust movement" LOL
I love this!! But I do not think it is only the 1% who are playing the “Quality of Life” card. Many of us fully understand that to have drumming going on all day outside your window or where you can hear it is enough to drive anyone mad.
I think it's an awesome idea that includes the wishes of both sides & lends itself to the greater movement- nice going bathroom girl! It's marketing, pleasing to all involved in the dialogue & just brilliant!
You know what the more I think about this the more I realize this idea is genius.
Drumming draws attention and a crowd. It is a very useful thing used the right way. Sending these drummers out on "sorties" throughout the city to get out the message beyond the square would be incredible. Think of the ground that could be covered. And the drummers could drum and drum, in various locations, and others could accompany, helping to spread the word.
It could really turn this situation into a big win-win for everyone and show the doubters and mockers a thing or two about how resilient this movement really is.
It could be a drumming flash mob popping up to protest all over.
Didn't your parents if you had any, teach you manners?
Very good idea.
BathroomGirl, this is a great Idea. Also because The Drummers real strength is in what is known as "Rough Music" (look it up on wikipedia, it really exists).
What rhythyms are being played? I am thinking that this idea, for the mobile drumming unit, then it would be very cool to play batucada, the solid and fast afro-brazilian beat behind carnaval samba.
This music is often quite challenging to play... whereas, as I understand it, if people are going 10 hours straight, then the rythms are probably as free form as possible. All good, but never underestimate the power of real order in music (especially percussion) to turn heads and wake up bankers.
I hope your idea of the daily Manhattan Pitstop Drum Adventure takes form and goes ahead!
i love this idea
Great idea - channel the energy, marching band or at staged locations. People are attracted to the music and if paired with key messages/signs could be a multiplier!
Yeah, Hungry March Band would probably be for-hire. They're quite free lance, you know.
Such a great idea. I hope it takes hold.
Id vote for this - and I agree the drummer cant be drumming all the time but like I said about I go for the drummers esp and to meditate to the drumming - SB
Does Occupy Wall Street stand for irritating people during the day and keeping people awake at night? Or does it stand for something else that some people might actually support?
PS: also agree with other remarks about other music...
Drumming can be very oppressive to unamplified strings or voices.
You are NOT the 99%...you are nothing as long as you disrespect others around you.
You said it best GoHomePEST,"You are NOT the 99%...you are nothing as long as you disrespect others around you."
i'm happy that mediation is ongoing, and hopeful that this works out. I would like to make a few points.
Too me this is like having the person with the most booming voice in the room demand that you listen to him all the time just because they have the louder voice. Liberty Square is a small space - drumming when its happening dominate that space. I think the loudest person in the room, the strongest person in the room should not be allowed to dominate those with a smaller voice! What do we do as a community when this happens, and when all reasonable attempts at resolution fail?
Today organizers of acitons from tahir square were in at liberty square and we could barely hear them. Why? Because drummers drummed. Unacceptable. Unbelievable.
I also agree. Discussion of the issues surround the excesses of the neoliberal regime and possible solutions is much more important than drumming.
agreed
The drummers can all fuck right off, as far as I'm concerned. They're immature, self-centered, and attention-seeking.
The night they drummed while a thousand people tried to hold a GA was the final straw.
the drummers, bless their hearts, need to realize that we have formed a democracy and it is not anarchy down there. Unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be), you can't do whatever you want in a democracy. We collectively agree upon a code of conduct. While we embrace "a diversity of tactics" there are certain behaviors that should not be tolerated within the camp. Drugs and alcohol and recently excessive panhandling are serious issues, but nothing is remotely as threatening to our fragile nursery community than the incessant drumming. My opinion is that if the people drumming cannot understand this, then they are not so much a part of OWS community that has formed around the GA and the political discourse, but a seperate group of people who happen to be occupying the same park for the purpose of playing drums. Unfortunately we have been too nice to the drummers and have not held them accountable to the agreement we made with the community board. If the drummers are actually part of the OWS movement and respect the GA, they would have had a million oportunities to hash out an agreement with the CB and the GA. However, from what I have noticed, most attempts to incorportate them into the dialog have been unsuccesful. I think we should hold them to two hours a day, no more (and no less?) until the situation has calmed down a bit and then a new conversation can happen.
And who, exactly, will enforce that?
By now most people know who you are and what you are...your message is failing
I am sure the cops would be happy to enforce it. If they don't obey the very rules they agreed to, turn them in. Warn them first, to give them a chance to comply, but if they don't let them know you're serious. The movement must have some order and must be respectful to the neighbors and the fellow participants. Don't get me wrong, I love me some drumming, but incessant drumming is simply selfish egotism.
That's like sending the horse to the glue factory.
So let me make sure I'm getting this right...OWS will ask the NYPD for help to enforce their General Assembly decision to allow for 2-4 hours of drumming a day?
This should not be a matter of enforcement. This should be a matter of respect. We need to respect the drummers and their right to be drumming but they need to respect those who are sick, tired, or just in general need to rest. But please please please. Don't think of enforcement. Don't do that.
There is no such thing as a right to drum.
OK. So then what do you do if the drummers won't stop?
If the drummers do not abide by the agreement they made with everyone else they should be considered provocateurs and dealt with accordingly, with courteous resolve.
and what does that mean exactly? is there a police force who will forcibly stop them or not?
No. You and this guy will enforce the rules that were arrived on by consensus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6FUR_nhGX8&feature=youtu.be
"Courteous resolve" was a funny phrase. If the GA doesn't develop a law enforcement branch, then this is just a microcosm of what will come next. If the GA is totally toothless then they'll also be totally ineffective.
What that means in concrete terms is that they'll lose control of the park.
To gain respect, one has to offer respect. I am still reading, but I don't see any reports of a drummer offering respect. I see some "liberals" saying nice things about the drumming. I'd like to see some concrete suggestions. The drummers are an extreme example of a problem we must deal with, that will rear its ugly head in other forms. Decentralized leaderless movements need to understand how to deal with trolls and poisonous people. That includes looking into ourselves and understanding when we each may be manifesting poisonous tendencies. None of us are immune and we need to be talking with each other about we we all can improve. Here is a workshop we did the other night: http://www.nycga.net/2011/10/24/are-poisonous-drummers-endangering-occupywallstreet-movement/
Why not. We love the police. The police and the occupation are one.
Why not? It would go along way to improving the image of the movement in the community and among the cops.
The discussion needs to continue between the two groups. My main request to the drummers that they use courteousness and relies that at times their drumming effects other negatively and that, at times, their demands to keep drumming are arrogant. Drummers are humans just like all of us. Trust me. They know what compassion and courteousness is. We just need to frame our argument as such. Right now we are becoming another thing for them to fight against and we don't want to become that.
I think its pretty clear that there are 2 options.
a.) the police will enforce an eviction of the entire park with the blessing of the community board and the mayor and we will not be let back in with sleeping gear. This effectively ends OWS for now. This scenario is really bad for everyone (except the banks and people who want to sleep and schools that want to have class without drumming going on all day and corporations who yada yada yada)
b.) the drummers realize that their drumming beyond the agreed upon 2 hours a day is a really big threat and then they cooperate with everyone. They have "the right" to drum all they want, but they themselves have made up the 4 hour period outside the GA, OWS in general, and without the blessings of the CB.
c.) there is no option c. To pretend that the drummers don't know well what they are doing is just plain stupid. I personally do not care if they think they have a right to do whatever they want at the expense of a very important movement. There are lots of "rights" they have, but it doesn't make the exploits of them "right" (zing). Our best and only option is to persuade the drummers that option b is in everyones best interest.
We do not enforce rules on each other nor should we feel compelled to involve the police. These are proving to be major flaws in our strategy as it opens the option for a group of 10 or so people to derail the entire thing because they have "the right" to drum. People deciding to partake in other behaviors, while not as flagrant as the drumming, are also jeapordizing the message of the movement. I commend mediation and security for their efforts, but we need a better mechanism to moderate our collective behavior and image. Again, this is a democracy, not an anarchy. Even a true anarachist would recognize the important of maintaining our collective. If you are drumming outside of the times we agreed upon, you aren't an anarchist, you're just an asshole.
I'm all about creating an autmosphere of inclusion to a point, but if some of the people we are including are willing to end our occupation we should discuss the option of not including them in this movement....I'm sorry, but its not like this is the first time we have deliberated this. This issue is several weeks old now and I'm tired of the constant threat of 10 people's selfish needs fucking everything up. While I'm not exactly proposing a concrete strategy for doing this, I think we need to deliberate on whether or not we think excluding certain elements from the movement is acceptable.
As a musician and a fan of drumming and jam sessions in general, this is the most painful thing I have ever written
To answer the question implicit in your pain, here is why the drummers need to show some respect, while they too need to be respected, from Manuel De Landa: http://www.t0.or.at/delanda/meshwork.htm "To make things worse, the solution to this is not simply to begin adding meshwork components to the mix. Indeed, one must resist the temptation to make hierarchies into villains and meshworks into heroes, not only because, as I said, they are constantly turning into one another, but because in real life we find only mixtures and hybrids, and the properties of these cannot be established through theory alone but demand concrete experimentation. Certain standardizations, say, of electric outlet designs or of data-structures traveling through the Internet, may actually turn out to promote heterogenization at another level, in terms of the appliances that may be designed around the standard outlet, or of the services that a common data-structure may make possible. On the other hand, the mere presence of increased heterogeneity is no guarantee that a better state for society has been achieved. After all, the territory occupied by former Yugoslavia is more heterogeneous now than it was ten years ago, but the lack of uniformity at one level simply hides an increase of homogeneity at the level of the warring ethnic communities. But even if we managed to promote not only heterogeneity, but diversity articulated into a meshwork, that still would not be a perfect solution. After all, meshworks grow by drift and they may drift to places where we do not want to go. The goal-directedness of hierarchies is the kind of property that we may desire to keep at least for certain institutions. Hence, demonizing centralization and glorifying decentralization as the solution to all our problems would be wrong. An open and experimental attitude towards the question of different hybrids and mixtures is what the complexity of reality itself seems to call for. To paraphrase Deleuze and Guattari, never believe that a meshwork will suffice to save us."
Also, maybe there are certain types of drums that are not quite so loud they could use during some times of the day? Or maybe they could use electronic drums during some quiet times to put out an internet feed that people could listen to on the network if anyone wanted during times like the General Assembly? It's not the really the drumming but the sound propagation that is the issue...
I totally agree. However, I don't think the cops will break it up solely because of drumming. But the drumming can turn of prospective participants, enrage neighbors who the complain to the press, and just generally weaken the movement overall. They got to know this and they got to know that it it not acceptable to the vast majority.
Isn't there was an option in GA where a participant can block a proposal. From what I understand this means that their objections are so great that to go on would be a deal breaker and they would walk. I would think most drummers would not consider a limit on drumming a deal breaker and would not block. But maybe the assholes will. And maybe that would not be such a bad thing.
Perhaps there is a plan C. If the Whole of #ows has reached a consensus about drumming policy were to pack up and occupy the farthest part of the park from the circle, leaving the intransigent drummers behind to fend for themselves,perhaps they could finally utilize their left brains and come to their senses and realize we all need each other to be loving and respectful to each other, otherwise those who don't, will be considered provocateurs and not be aloud to reparticipate.
Um have you actually visited the park, or even looked at it on a map? This is not exactly a sprawling open space.
Pretend like you're really, REALLY sick and go over near them while coughing and sneezing. (not ON them, but very near to them.) Bonus points if you can find someone with a specific benign allergy - LIKE ME - and send them over there in a sneezing, sniffling, runny nosed fit.
just informed by my more grammar minded roommate that courteousness is not exactly a word and that I mean courtesy.
"Diversity of tactics" up to a point: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/science_nonviolence.html "This commitment should include the principles put forth by advocates of strategic nonviolence for dealing with pro-violence groups. Nonviolent groups should distance themselves from violent groups and strongly condemn their philosophies and actions. Only groups that specifically state that they are completely committed to strategic nonviolence should be allowed to be co-sponsors of marches and participate in their planning. The thought of openly criticizing and then excluding some activists will make most leftists cringe, not only because their basic values are inclusionary, but because such a step would call to mind past battles over excluding Communists. Those who are excluded will say that the nonviolent activists are the equivalent of "red baiters." They will say that the nonviolent activists have violated their inclusionary principles, and are therefore hypocrites. They will say that those who would exclude them are only reformers and liberals. Most leftists thus prefer to deal with those who favor property damage or armed struggle by ignoring them or making deals with them within the privacy of the movement. That's what the nonviolent activists tried at Seattle. That's what the compromise called "diversity of tactics" is all about. But it won't work. At the same time, it is likely that most future activists would accept strategic nonviolence as their only option if they were socialized into a movement that truly believed in and understand this commitment."
See also on how all real living systems live at the interface between fire (excessive chaos) and ice (excessive order): http://www.t0.or.at/delanda/meshwork.htm
They probably get free weed and Phish tickets from Goldman Sachs in exchange for being as disruptive as possible.
You aint the only one who had that notion.
I sure hope not.
Exactly. Maybe they were "setting the pulse of the movement" at one time but they really need to open up their ears.
that's pretty much what it takes to be a drummer. big head , beat off all day. rhythm optional
I love OWS and am so proud of everyone downtown and across the country who is taking part. I say that so you understand that I am 100% on your side, OWS. But this drumming issue is, in a tiny way, making OWS look silly. I'm psyched to see a dialog brewing about it and that the situation is being dealt with fairly but the fact that it's even happening is crazy. NYC is a loud loud place. Silence, when you can get it, is so important. For your neighbors but also for the more quiet among the OWS crowd who want to speak. A couple of hours, fine. To get people psyched for speeches, great. But if you're literally making it hard for people to talk, and pissing off your city neighbors, drummers, you are not interested truly in what's going on. People need to speak. People need space and quiet to think. Stop being stubborn.
The point makes perfect sense. Maybe somebody or some group with social skills can reach out to the drummers to persuade them that it is both to their interest and the interest of others that they play less hours each day. Of course, the durmmers' enthusiasm should be protected and their hard work be respected, but there should also be a balance between what they can and want to do and what people expect of them or can tolerate. This will be one of many situations that OWS need to manage successfully in order for the movment to effectively grow and to go in the right direction. ~acarefreeman
That's what mediation is trying to do.
Good.
These oucc pest have never known what the word respect means...they are worms
another way to protest daily....check it out please. This has just begun, we are on day 6. spread the word! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Daily-Boycott/235005926555257
The antisemitism, racism, defecating on cop cars, trashing the park, and Marxism doesn't make us look silly, it's the drumming.
Might I recommend some more-balanced news accounts that don't take anecdotes (sometimes false anecdotes) and turn them into statements about a non-existent majority?
I looked and found some, and I'm currently 4,900 miles away, though that will be changing very shortly.
Meanwhile, as an 'outsider,' I agree; living in tight quarters means that each person must consider balancing the boundaries between their rights to live as they choose, and the rights of those near them. Otherwise serenity and peace are disrupted, and conflict ensues where anti-conflicrt was sought. Self-defeating ends result.
Selfishness in society is what's brought us to this point, in some ways. Re-creating it while working to end it seems paradoxical at best.
I love ows, I really do! But there comes a time when certain elements will keep me from coming back.......NON STOP DRUMS! My dish washing, my scrubbing crap off a sidewalk, my voice, my body, and my "donations" won't be there again until somebody will get the drummers to exercise respect for others. That's what I thought part of this whole thing was about!!! But, if they insist on driving people away; I smell "agent provocateur", again, here only to spoil the goodness!
The drummers just need to think about what their "pulse" means to the whole movement. They have to make the decision: Will they be comfortable to be the reason the movement gets cleared out of the park? If the cops clear out OWS, they will clear out the GA, the drumming, the movement, everything.
This movement is about a lot of things - it's about taking on Wall Street, it's about taking on the people who kicked people out of their homes, it's about justice, it's about beating the cops, it's about a better future. This movement sure as hell isn't about free pizza and drumming and more free pizza, which is what some people seem to think it is about.
Painful as it might be to do - if it comes down to the drummers go or the whole movement goes, I'm certain the rest of the movement will do whatever it takes to limit the drumming. The movement will be remembered for how it changed our corrupted country, not how it treated a group of drummers whose self-centered actions nearly destroyed it.
I agree, with one minor edit. "...beating the cops..." to "...recruiting the cops..." They're part of the 99%. We get them on our side, as MM said, "Game over."
This is an opportunity to develop as a community and grow. I applaud the efforts to mediate. The worst thing that can happen to a burgeoning movement is to suffer divisions: focus on what is held in common! It sounds to me as if everyone has had a chance to have a voice and that everyone has compromised. That is what democracy looks like. An idea: what if the drummers move to other parts of the city? They could represent ows in Times Square for a few hours a day, or in Union Square. Why shouldn't the ows presence be seen elsewhere? The drummers can express themselves in many places around NYC ... they could even join forces with drummers in other cities and travel there to get in more drumming if they wish. After all, to confine drumming to one small park seems a bit narrow-minded in a movement that urges us to enjoy our entire world ("occupy everything"). Or to put a twist on the story: dispense with private property and claim the entire city, the state, the east coast, the nation... you get the point. drumming is a wonderful addition, but sometimes it could spread around and drum at other locations so others have quiet time.
This idea has been voiced twice - you were the first it seems. I think it is a really good idea. Take the drumming, which is good, and spread it. This solves the problem of too much for too long in one small location, and brings one of the most artistic, creative, and attractive parts of the movement to other parts of the city.
I did witness today the 6pm closing of the drumming and a conversation about where drumming should be done....it was deliberated whether or not to have drums on the march, and I was glad to see the drummers not join the march through the neighborhood and talk about going somewhere else to drum. Sorry for all of the negative language drummers, I know there are some of you out there that get it and respect the GA. Thanks
Thanks :) Is there a particular person I should speak to, present this idea to? Can anyone tell me where to take this idea next? I'll be down at the park Friday night.
I have heard (albeit, second hand) from people who attempted to explain that Battery Park is available to the drummers. People who tried discussing this with the drummers have reported the impossibilities of using words. So maybe people should try non-violent body language to make it clear that drummers who show no respect for others, will get no respect in return. Any ideas?
dont turn against each other!!!!!! work together <33
This is stupid. I cannot believe it is still an issue. I understand that everyone is trying to sort things out through arbitration in an attempt to show people that there is another way to sort things out but at this point, I think you guys are showing people the exact opposite is true. I think you seriously need to re-evaluate some priorities.
This drumming is still an issue because of too many weak kneed "liberals" who think it is OK to tolerate almost anything, especially if they are not the ones personally suffering from it. I have seen examples of this in the "white liberal racism" my daughter faced in high school because she had an Hispanic last name, played basketball and had African-American kids in her inner circle. The white liberal teachers were OK with minority kids cutting class and hanging out in the hallways, because as "white liberal racists" they were too spineless to deal with reality. And, as long as the white kids were in class, they didn't seem to care too much about minority kids getting educated.
I support decentralized bottom up movements, but the only way to stop hierarchical top down oppression is to face "drumming" types of problems head on and deal with them. Otherwise, the man will deal with it for you.
We have real issues to fight for and the right to cause sleep deprivation is not a sustainable movement. Many of us have sacrificed unending hours in recent weeks, working our asses off to build a better future. Should we let spoiled, completely self-centered, non-cooperative drummers destroy the huge potential that stands before us?
Oh dear, the 1 percent has got to love this. Instead of talking about the injustices of wall street and our government, now we're talking about how long protestors can bang on their drums? If the drummers can't see the damage they're causing to the movement with this then they should get lost. They're going to ruin a good thing with their pettiness.
Hate to admit it, I think you're right.
The 53% is LOVING this. Don't get me wrong, I love our system and I love that you kids have the right to protest, but it seems like this is the issue you guys have fought hardest towards. Your message as a group hasn't been really clear, and you haven't fought for specific issues... well besides drumming, which I'm actually quite impressed with how organized you guys are handling it.
You kids??? Do you actually realize the cross section of people who are a part of this? Unless that is you grandma, happy 101st bday!
Lol, the 3 percent loves this.
[Deleted]
I hope u realize I meant the 3 percent tax bracket. None the less enjoy
Society has rules. I don't think anyone advocates a society without rules. If the drummers don't follow the rules they should be expelled. If you can't quiet a group of drummers how do you expect to tame Wall Street?
How can OWS expel anyone? Don't get me wrong, the drumming gives me migraines, but trying to exclude anyone makes me cringe. Exclusion means 99% becomes 98 then 97 etc. The ows is expressing free speech in a public space and while we "claim" specific area, there is really nothing that would stop anyone or any group coming to the same/close by location and doing/saying what they want. How would the drummers feel if metal heads formed a giant 100 person electric band that blasted on speakers 24-7 and drowned out the drumming? They should think about that and maybe become more sensitive to others
Democracy can only protect a minority when that minority participates in the democracy. The refusal to compromise demonstrates a complete disregard for the democracy that OWS has built. OWS will not expel anyone, the disruptive element will expel itself.
I hate to point out that 99% is already exclusionary. It excludes the 1%.
The drummers should have the best interest of the movement at heart. If they don't...if their drums mean more to them, they don't belong. What I'm saying is you can't sacrifice the movement for the drummers. There's too much at stake.
From my understanding, and this is coming from someone the drumming has driven away, the drummers feel that drumming, preferably as much and as long as possible is in the best interest of the movement. I don't see it, but if pure "majority rules" is going to be the ows law of the land, might as well pack it up and go home
So what then??? A body of elected representatives?
Would you exclude someone from the park if they were sexually harassing women? I hope everyone commenting here would agree that would not be acceptable. The US used loud music to sleep deprive prisoners in Guantanamo and they claimed that it was not torture. Different people will have different opinions of how many decibels it takes before they would characterize it as torture. Some areas are gray. Every culture has its own norms. What is acceptable in one culture may not be acceptable in another. What is clear is that the drummers have their own culture, which seems to not be shared by 99% of the people that have to hear them.
This doesn't follow. It society has rules, and rules should be followed, then OWS should not be in Zuccotti.
I've been to the park.The Drummers just do whatever they want including Drowning Out The General Assembly!! Anarchy is NOT acceptable. No respect, ZERO. They should be responsible for their own equipment as well !! Dude you left your $5,000 drum unattended in New York City, DUH! If the GA gives money to them they will lose my support.
The night of the removal from Zuccotti Park, four uniformed 9-11 memorial workers were lurking near the piles of our property that the police would not let us get to. When the opportunity arose, the 9-11 memorial workers took some of the drums as well as a couple of other things. Did they give the drums back yet? They are on film walking away with our property, in uniform. This was a clear injustice and illegal act that was allowed by the police and sanitation workers at the scene. Was the 9-11 memorial contacted directly? These four vultures need to be held accountable for preying on the people when they were vulnerable and unable to respond. When one protester followed them and asked for them to return the merchandise, he was cursed at by one of the uniformed memorial workers and prevented from continue to follow them by police. An absolute injustice that must not go unanswered.
Anarchy is NOT acceptable.
Don't let the anarchists hear you say that!
Yeah, we wouldn't want to have a civil discussion about it or anything. It's always better to ridicule and avoid something you don't understand than to make an effort to understand it. You might get cooties or something like Satan germs on you.
Sometimes ridicule is a useful and necessary tool.
See anarchy comment that I was replying to.
sorry, it showed up as a reply to mine
<3~
Twelve down twinkles for you! New York State Health Code 153.09 covers neither Cooties nor Satan Germs explicitly and such allegations that Occupy Wall Street or its affiliates are aiding, abetting, or otherwise harboring Cooties and/or Satan Germs is strictly prohibited by declaration of the consensus as determined by the GA! Report to the GA immediately for drum confiscation!
They have been asked respectfully many times. When you ask somebody to please cool it over and over and over and they flat out ignore you, yeah you start to get ticked off because you are a human being after all.
An acquaintance once told me that "Anarchy is not life without rules, but, rather, life without rulers."
I consider myself to be what I refer to as a 'socially conscious anarchist.' My rights end where yours begin, and yours end where mine begin; an invisible fence of live-and-let-live that entails mutual respect and mutual boundaries.
Without it, there is one form of potentially negative conflict or another.
I am so grateful there is a respectful process for voicing, negotiating and listening at OWS. As a drum circle facilitator and student of sacred drumming I have felt very disappointed with the drumming of OWS. Drummers need to see themselves as servants of the whole community and its values AMONG other servants of the group. Drumming must be nonviolent. Drummers are not warriors choosing to beat up their drums rather than their enemies. Drumming is about LOVING. The high energy and loudness of drumming in circle must come in its right time. Communities need quiet time to be in the beat of their own work, to study and confront competing beats in the issues, to meditate out of time, to put babies, the ill, the elderly to nap out of time. There is dream time and create time etc. I saw a lot of kit drums in the OWS drum circle and I was disappointed. Not enough of the wisdom of goats and trees in the circle joining with the humble hands of people in touch with their breath and all their feelings. I felt there was addiction and despair at the OWS drum circle. Trees grow slowly, teach quietly and connect in whisper. Goats can have big personalities and be aggressive but know how to transition. We have a long long way to go as a Western community that needs to come to balance and harmony. I felt a lot of violence in the drum circle at OWS. I needed to leave it and sit at the sacred tree next to it. I will say that the passion of the OWS drum circle was palpable and energizing but it will be so much better if it is in connection with the whole. Great news that there is change here. I think the excessive drumming at OWS reveals such a HUNGER for celebration. People want to meet the Spirit. The recent integration of faith and nonfaith communal ceremonies and celebrations at OWS have offered models toward a healthier culture. Batshemesh
I have a friend who teaches Afro-Cuban drumming. He has studied with masters in Cuba for 40 years. The very first thing he teaches the white kids in his classes is to not hit the drums too hard. It is actually pretty amazing to hear the texture of sounds that can be produced without banging on a drum. He explains (to the men) that, like a woman, it is wrong to beat the drum, and you will not get back what you're seeking.
At the risk of sounding authoritarian, fuck the drummers. I'm for people being able to have a fun time and dance and play music if they want. People can't be serious all the time. But still, if there is to be any sort of actual thought or politics that goes on down there, the mindless and incessant pounding of the drums all day has to stop.
The fact that the General Assembly (the closest thing to any sort of legislative body at OWS) has shown such organizational ineptitude that it cannot deal with this situation is an embarrassment. It's making the entire movement look ridiculous.
Couldn't agree more. They have made Congress look like a well-oiled machine. The people drumming can go to Sheep Meadow and do their thing. It has nothing to do with an occupation, revolution or empowering people.
Congress has been around for 235ish years, and most of them currently elected have been doing it for most of their lives... compare that to the unemployed hippie kids living on the streets... yeah, that's going to happen.
I love OWS. I applaud and thank each and every one of you. The drums are counterproductive, overwhelming and RETARDED.
Retarded? Really? Pleas don't start using words in such an ignorant way? I know some folks with mental retardation and they show far more respect for others than the drummers seem to be showing. Please use words more accurately.
I am in San Francisco, but drumming is a universal issue for all encampments, for me it's personal as I get bad migraines and have found the constant drumming means I have to leave after a short time. I am not the only one, so it is hard to be supportive of the drummers when they are not considerate of those who are they are pushing away from the movement by their "I will drum when and where I want to" attitude
I have Asperger's. Wanna see me freak out? Put me in an environment with a constant and nagging sound I can't control. Voila. Audio claustrophobia! Yeah, I couldn't deal with the drumming for very long either, and would probably make an ass out of myself. Hopefully the issue is resolved when I visit the occupation.
From: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3423632.html&sid=20faf9b01513b5ab6211148365c2f76e#3423632 "I personally have had improvement [related to Asperger's] taking vitamin D, B12, and liquid minerals for the last 3 months. I also eat whole foods, nothing processed, few canned foods, and I am learning to make meals completely from scratch. Many foods have chemicals and hormones in them that negatively affect behavior, health, and mood (especially conventional meat and dairy). I also highly recommend the ELISA food sensitivity test so you can eliminate allergic foods. The biggest change for me has been the total absence of meltdown fits I used to have on an almost daily basis."
Omega 3s also can be useful. Also maybe of interest: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/autism-research-discovery_b_794967.html
Our society has not been designed for the optimum health (mental or physical) of the 99%. http://www.bluezones.com/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/the-science-of-success/7761/
If we get a "basic income" or other substantial scoio-economic changes, maybe more people can reach their full potential whatever their unique strengths and weaknesses relative to different contexts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Good_as_It_Gets
But constant drumming could also drive almost anyone to distraction and collapse or freaking out...
BTW, on reducing tension headaches and migraines: http://www.drfuhrman.com/disease/Headaches.aspx
How is this post not considered a massive failure? The attention must be put on the criminals who are not being jailed for their dishonest practices! Believe it or not, NY decades ago, actually was a small, vibrant and diverse community on its own. And each sub community was self governed! And if I remember correctly, drum circles were in sheep meadow.
Speaking as someone watching this through media sources at this time, I can say the drummers are a destruction you do not want. This portrayal that you're all a bunch of patchouli wearing, bongo drumming hippies is getting legs and the drummers get a lot more mention than the positive, mainstream elements.
The bohemian banging is not drumming, I would suggest a musical ensamble of multicultural rythms, Native American, African, Gaelic, Oriental, get a composer, read poetry to it, dance. The revolution must evolve into a consuming force that will gather all the energies of the people and drums can sound the cadence.
second that... the music of the future needs form and roots and quality.
haven't heard it but suspect that 99% of the circle's playing is out of time and "sleepy"
Do you guys know samba raiz from Brazil? Very cool form of participatory music (everyone sings, lots play), with some great melodies and (of course) a lot of satire. Unfortunately, it's all in portuguese... but I bet that some poets of Liberty plaza have some verses that can be set to music.
Basically, a good "pagode de mesa" (table samba jam session) combines the best of the human-mic, the drum circle, and the "message" (if you have some sharp turns of phrase and a couple of wall street cut downs)... this is a compositional opportunity...
keep up your positive work!
If they won't honor the decisions of the General Assembly they should be shut down. They are bullies. And in my opinion some of them are govt agents.
It seems that way. From what I hear, there are just a couple of drummers who are agitating. Sux.
I for one support every aspect of OWS, but the drumming would drive me absolutely apeshit. I think there is a time and place for it, like marches or immediate protests. But, during the day to day operation of Zucotti Park, or any other Occupy site, I think it would hinder clear thought, as well as anger the surrounding neighbors who are needed as allies in order to help maintain the Occupation. Plus, I also think it does detract from the serious nature of what is trying to be accomplished.
I love the drummers down there! You guys are awsome, but we must all respect each other. We must respect the GA's and people who are teaching and working. Here in Providence, RI we could use more drummers for our marches. Everyone must come together, work together to make everyone happy and i think you guys are doing a great job! And to the drummers you guys are great you make the marches epic in so many ways so thanks!
Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now :-)
like ! :P
Jesse??!!
exactly. its about fairness and mutual respect. if everyone gets their time and respected silence, as well as a respected outburst of emotion through song and rhythym, then what more could you want?
Everyone should be happy, coming together, talking their opinions in a mature manner, in order to get a level of equality with everyone else. Everyone has their color, but it wouldn't be a rainbow without that one color.
Finding consensus is about including everyone: it means both parties must consent beforehand they want to listen to each other and reach an agreement.
If there is not consensus enough to engage on inclusive conversation, then it's sectarian authoritarism (even if done by the majority, it's not about number). How do you counter authoritarian sectarism? Co-opt (hack your enemy, break it's armor - the very division "us" and "them" - make their best interests be on your side) or expell the enemy. Either you fight the sectarians, either you seduce them. It's plain obvious.
This can be the "failure" of the movement - or this can be the first of a long road of learning about how to produce consensus. I've been living with a dozen people in a house for 2 years and I know how hard this can be even on such a small scale - but I know also, firsthand, that operating as a consensual group is LEARNABLE. And it MUST be learned, and this very learning is an intervention on the society that surrounds you guys.
The path isn't easy, and conflicts will SURELY emerge. There'll be sectarians, there'll be infiltrated provocateurs, and much more. I hope you guys learn how to counter these dangers fast and survive.
Hint: listen attentively to people who have been on the 2001 protests. They can have useful hints to share, regarding autogestive organization.
Cheers from Brazil.
EDITED TO ADD: check BathroomGirl's comment, here:http://occupywallst.org/article/drumming-and-occupation/#comment-198526. Wonderful suggestion of what I've called "co-optation" or "seduction".
What is needed is a council drum, which can play the heartbeat continuously in a quiet and soothing manner which is also deeply powerful and invokes the energy of our mother earth in a positive way. Women drummers carry this tradition and can teach this to all. People sign up for a shift and four or more can play at once. We play very soft during discussions and workshops and meld our beat to the rhythm of the other drums when it time for dancing and fun.
this is tough because we need a place to discuss but we also need to build up intensity...
drummers should consider playing polyryhthms in keeping with our many-voiced movement.
could they do that?
I traveled a long way yesterday to donate my support, clothing and a bit of cash to the OWS movement. I deeply appreciate those that have chosen to stay in NYC for the long haul. I was deeply saddened and dissappointed at the anger and rage that erupted in the late afternoon at the far end of the park. I am aware that the issue of drumming has been a long standing one. I am a drummer myself and know what it is like to have parameters on playng. it stinks! However, the display of rage (yes- rage), profanity, and screaming created quite a scene. Passersby on the street gathered outside the barricades to witness the ugliness of it all. The cops were enjoying it, I can teel you that. Then the crowd got large enough so that the police told people on the sidewalk to "move along".It was reality TV at it's best! What I observed was not consensus, it was not democracy. It was a breakdown in "the process". It was downright bullying. The small group of drummers started pounding away on their instruments so that no one could be heard. It was (in my opinion) a coup. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Air your dirty laundry inside- not on the perimeter of the park. That type of scene does not support the cause. Quartzhorse
Hello, and thank you for coming so far to support us! The reason why you saw what you saw, when you saw it, was because the area where they drum is at the perimeter of the park. I have been there off and on for almost 3 weeks now and I've seen people ask the drummers COUNTLESS times to give it a break and am frankly shocked by their rudeness in continuing to drum, as if nothing was ever asked...I guess a blow up was inevitable. most of these drummers are NOT truly part of the OWS movement. they made that very clear when they didn't adhere to the agreement. we MUST have Compassion in our hearts to be successful(which doesn't exclude them, if they are going to be part of OWS) in our mission but this doesn't mean we are willing to be kicked around, either. We have made so many strides since day ONE. You are correct that this is a bad message to send to the world. We will just need to work it out. Nobody said this was going to be easy.
Sound like the drummers are a bunch of immature spoiled brats. I can tell you that when the middle class sees a bunch of dirty, self centered neo-hippie drummers, it makes then feel like the movement is not for them.
Do think that most of the middle class sees a difference between the drummers and the rest of the protesters?
Yes. Absolutely. Without a doubt. I have seen with my own eyes the Americans working to change the corrupt system. When people see the drummers, they assume that everyone is like them; nut we are not. The movement is alive and well.
Vary the rhythm and the tradition - hold some drumming workshops using 7/8 beat, or other challenging and fun rhythms - use more than the congo and jembe, what about taiko, tabla, cajon, bodhran, doumbek, tar, tabor.
The wall of sound that bad hippie drum circles employ is only one voice of the drum. You're in NYC, you've gotta have some world class musicians available to offer drumming workshops and to teach the ancient traditions of the drum.
Fine drumming is both soothing and powerful. It reaches deep into the DNA. If after a few solid and really fun drumming workshops you still have a problem (and it should go without saying that the drummer/musicians will care to respect the needs of the GA and the neighbors) then there may be something else going on, a desire for discord. I don't mean to set alarm bells off, but it's a funny thought of an agent unable to disrupt a consensus meeting except thru bad drumming. Tee-hee! Do they send them to school for that? I guess they wouldn't have to - anyone can bang on pots and pans!
Absolutely, they need to engage their minds and not just their hands.
www.manhattansamba.org
sambanewyork.com
I also see your point about a desire for discord... yes, there maybe this idea that the protest must remain absolutely indigestible. And maybe they are right.... that is a long discussion.
It's just this, my friends. As a friend of the late activist Judi Bari, I have seen my friends live through Cointelpro. Provocateurs can only amplify discord in the group. That is their job, and basically it is their only tool. It doesn't help to start pointing fingers, because that kind of inflammation is exactly what they want. That's when they move into high gear, deepening divisions. It's the real divisions in the group that they capitalize upon. The only thing to do is to deeply examine yourselves (you who are drummers and you who are annoyed by drummers) and how you are being influenced, and to gently and consistently guide the process energy back to the goal of consensus (like parenting a toddler). The consensus process can be very hard for agents provocateurs to disrupt, but it is a fine line between encompassing discord into the open process and being careful not to point fingers, and being careful not to waste precious organizing energy running in process circles around an issue with less than ultimate value to the overall mission of the generally assembled populace. (Another goal of provocateurs = burnout) Ultimately it doesn't even matter whether or not there are real infiltrators in your midst, (although you can be well assured there are) because it is only each and everyone's own behavior that is the determining factor in the social health of the collective.
So take care, my friends, and remember to be gentle with one another! You are all putting out a LOT of high energy, so tensions can mount. Remember to ground yourselves. And have humor!!!
Noise pollution, from drumming to rap to rock to folk to opera, is the province of assholes. Do your thing without space-invading. Contribute without co-opting.
Drumming by slaves in the Caribbean was a means of powerful communication--so powerful, it was banned in the states.
Unwanted drumming pushed on your own community is just juvenile bullshit, non-communication, self-righteous arrogance, sad manifestation of hostile socialization, or maybe (gee, could it be?) yet another form of covert disruption.
If you rhythm revolutionaries are so hip, follow that great suggestion to drum around the city and communicate, powerfully, the message of Occupy. Take your Pulse, then take it to the streets and parks. Carry #OWS banners, whatever, uptown and to the boroughs.
I've lived in NYC too long to be as cool as the occupants of Liberty Square in their approach to this. I'd argue, "Don't take too much shit from 'friends and supporters'." Public space ain't public when a few push out the many.
Bless you, Occupiers, for your grand experiment and steadfast occupation.
A group of 20 people approaches drummer who is drumming outside of agreed-upon hours. The drummer gets one warning, if he/she persists their drum is taken away for one week. Repeat offenders will be duct taped to the nearest tree for 30 minutes. Anyone sabotaging and willfully ignoring the group process will be presumed to be an agitator.
So you're going to steal someone's drum? That makes you no different than the cops.
No I'm going to take away someone's drum until they can observe the consensus reached by a democratic group. Don't you remember kindergarten?
Fascinating. The fact that duct taping a person to a tree for 30 minutes would technically be illegal doesn't concern you at all? The rules inside of Zuccotti Park are not a superset of the laws in Lower Manhattan? They're actually totally different, and some of the laws in Lower Manhattan don't apply in Zuccotti Park, due to the rulings of the GA? Is that how it works?
I don't think we need to worry about interlocking jurisdictions here. Is that really fascinating?
If I keep screaming in your face what will you do?
If you were to keep screaming in my face then I would stand there peacefully, silently giggling inside at the unbalanced person in front of me. Just like I do when homeless people do crazy, anti-social things like that. If that person were to actually threaten me then I would call a cop.
The idea that you would refer to "interlocking jurisdictions" is pretty funny. The GA is not a "jurisdiction". The GA doesn't have the option of taking actions that are illegal under real laws, like duct-taping people to trees. In the real world that's "false arrest", and probably also "battery".
You seem to be really obsessed with legal terminology and concepts, although I doubt you're a lawyer. I'd encourage you to find out what life is like outside of authoritarian societies.
If you duct tape somebody to a tree then you're going to get arrested, even if the General Assembly authorizes it. That's the law, sorry. Even the cops who don't see any difference between loud, smelly homeless people and loud, smelly protesters would intervene to stop assault and battery if one of those protesters were to duct tape one of those homeless to a tree, or vice versa.
Like I said, if you can imagine yourself outside of your cops n' robbers TV world, you might be able to see things a little differently.
If you repeatedly and blatantly violate the will of whatever group you are a part of, you'll suffer consequences. The group will decide those consequences - but they definitely won't be "silently giggling inside at the unbalanced person". The group will do whatever it take to ensure that you'll be unable to violate their will again.
The reason that I keep responding to you is that you keep demonstrating the same fundamental delusion, over and over. The General Assembly is not a law-making authority. They don't even represent all of the people in the park, they only represent people on the east side of the park. So if the people on the east side of the park decide to act violently against people on the west side of the park, then from the point of view of law enforcement, that's basically gang warfare. The laws of the city, county, state, and nation do still apply within the east side of Zuccotti Park, no matter what "the will of the group" thinks about it. Zuccotti Park has not seceded from the union, regardless of the delusions of the people there who think that they've created a sovereign utopia.
Well I'm trying to get through to you also. You're missing out on a fundamental irony of your legalistic obsession. We are occupying Wall St. because laws are being broken and no one was doing anything about it. The bankers are robbing us blind, and the cops and the government support them fully.
Liberty Plaza is a new beginning, it's democracy in word and in deed. That means that you don't just "run and call the cops" when something goes wrong. The group handles issues as justly and efficiently as it can. There doesn't have to be a law for everything. Rules are based on common sense and mutual respect. Are you starting to understand?
I do understand that the people on the east side of Zuccotti Park are under the impression that they have formed a sovereign utopia.
Do you understand that the laws of the city, county, state and nation still apply within that subculture, and that you can't just go around duct-taping homeless people and drummers to trees?
I'm annoyed that there's a front page post about the situation over drumming in NYC... aren't there more important things to bring up?
Visit themultitude.org if you agree...
Does it REALLY cost $8000 to replace the drums that were damaged?
It sounds like the little drummer boys wanted to make a HUGE profit off of their loss.
Hypocritical for people protesting greed.
You can get a plastic 5 gallon bucket at Home Depot for less than $5. Turn it upside down and you have a drum.
Who the hell brings drums that are worth 8k out to something like OWS, anyway?
The liberal media is making OWS seem like it's a peaceful movement. LOL! So the fools thought they'd actually be safe and that their stuff would be safe.
I know.
That is what the drum circle people are claiming.
Just when you think that people are ready to shoulder the responsibility of a movement like this... they prove that they're not. I am rather disappointed, and I've been supporting this since it began.
To make matters worse ..... the drum circle has had their own collection buckets for donations.
The others in the park have demanded they turn over most of that money to the "collective stash".
No one knows who controls the "collective stash" and the bank account with all the donations.
That's a good question. Does 1% of the 99% control the OWS money? So is it down to 98% now? lol
I used to attend drum circles and rainbow family gatherings back in the day, and we had the same issues. Look up the Rainbow Gathering info and community guidelines (http://welcomehome.org/rainbow/), as I've noticed that OWS is using the same format for a lot of organizational needs. The only solution that I've seen work is for there to be an area for drumming, a quiet area for meditation & silence, and an area for public discussion. Otherwise, it is like mixing water, oil, and sand- none of them will ever blend together. I'm a drummer, but respect other people's rights. It sounds like these folks are just being ignorant, or are there just to drum, in which case there are established drum circles in many cities specifically for that purpose. The movement is a movement, not a 24 hour drum circle.
Please stay focused on the task at hand! You have soooooooo many counting on you all over the world. This should not be an issue, remember what brought this movement together. Stay on task, and not let this be a distraction. The 99% need you! God Bless
sadly the hard truth of the matter is that many of the drummers are junkies and winos. over emotional individuals who are in the park to party and for the free shit. Wall st has nothing to do with whatever plights they face. they live in the park but they're not there for the ocupation ive watched the ga reps ask the drummers to stop and a few drunken childish old men made sure that wouldnt happen instead there was shoving and yelling the east side west side division that took shape in the park was quite natural and should be a lesson to anyone who thinks if people just stoped being mean bla bla bla.
It's just that drumming all the time, for days, can be really annoying. I suggest to diversify with other kinds of manifestation. Now if you have revolutionary clear demands to be attended by politicians + public banks, we should unite the nation, occupy the nation, drum much more and just stop when the demands are attended. See the example of Chilean students. If you don't harm individuals properties and don't put health at risk, the protest can just grow stronger and stronger and drums won't be the issue.
The occupation and its various important messages has been distilled to drummers. Not guitarists, not singers, not pianists, not bassists, not any wind or stringed instrument players and performers. It's drummers who, literally, do not make melody or harmony. It's Ringo Starr demanding the same attention as John Lennon. WIth everything going on, drumming has taken front page to this crisis. This has to be considered a severe disappointment, and an entirely avoidable one at that, on part of ows. I'm proud as an American and born and bred New Yorker of the occupation in its entirety. These are courageous people standing boldly for what is pure, right and just and it's being disrupted by the lack of consideration by noise makers. Without harmony and melody, banging a drum is tribal and is drowning out real conversations.
great post. in search of the melodious
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My comments and legit opinions were deleted!! Censorship!!!!
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Oh, we're still talking about drumming? Good prioritizing.
Drumming while Rome burns.
Drummer, Show a little respect. It's not all about you! John San Francisco
Drummers don't over do it. Just as space for pause between eg intervals of pounding heartbeat rythms and calm pulse sound of ocean surf on a beach is an important part of a balanced drum song, so too is rest neccessary for the drummer and the dancer. Drums let marches dance ;)
I've been to the park.The Drummers just do whatever they want including Drowning Out The General Assembly!! Anarchy is NOT acceptable. No respect, ZERO. They should be responsible for their own equipment as well !! Dude you left your $5,000 drum unattended in New York City, DUH! If the GA gives money to them they will lose my support.
I appreciate hearing how the ripples are being addressed, as we here in Gainesville, FL are experiencing some ripples.
I am a OWS supporter and musician and I believe that the drumming is essential. But if you are drumming for more than 2-4 hrs a day that is a little excessive. We appreciate what you are doing drummers but tone it down a bit. Maybe go get involved in the GA. We really should not be spending valuable time with petty infighting. We are changing the social dynamic of this country if we just stay the course. Thank you all for what you are doing. One love. Viva the revolution!
Essential to what? Their egos? The delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia circa 1776 seemed to get along just fine without drumming.
I want to see money out of politics. I want to see a reversal of "Citizens United" and the reinstatement of Glass-Steagal. I want to see Cap Gains taxed at the same rate as income from labor. I want to see an end to corporate welfare. I want to see an end to tax loopholes such as "The Double Irish". I want to see young people bypass the existing system and set up their own parallel structures, such as Mutual Health Insurance Societies (TRUE non-profits). I want to see coops making clothing and furniture and producing food and building cars and erecting green homes.
This Rainbow Family drumming stuff is all well and good, but, in my view, just gives the detractors more ammunition for their propaganda (like that pic of some guy in jeans and brown shoes walking on a flag. I'll bet hardly any of you have seen that pic actually looked at that so-called "flag" and figured out that it was a con by the Cons.)
Alienating people has not historically been an effective tactic to get folks on ones side.
It was the sideshows that turned many of the "Silent Majority", who may have sympathized with our goals, or at least some of them, against us. Self-aggrandizing assholes like Abby Hoffman, Tim Leary, Jerry Rubin, Eldridge Cleaver, Bernardine Dohrn, etc. took the Revolution full circle, from Street Theater (read "The Digger Archives", Brothers and Sisters), to mass marches on the Pentagon, to StreetTheater again (throwing dollars from the balcony of the NYSE). READ about what happened, and what they did (I was a bit player, late on stage, nothing more), and learn from it.
The Message will get overshadowed by the Sideshow, if you let it.
Totally agree.
There were fife and drum corps attached to many of the civilian and regular militias, but, again, the whole respect thing is a two-way street.
I can imagine the violation of mutual respect bringing this whole effort a notch lower in many ways. I'd hate to see that happen.
Not to mention the fact that someone "sabotaged" the drums during a rainstorm and the drummers want $8000 from OWS funds to buy new drums.
The drummers claim to have raised $35,000 for the cause, put into the general fund.
They also say one of the drums was handmade and worth $5000.
Here's a hint for the person with the $5000 drum: water and drums don't mix- the rawhide will tighten as it dries and the wood may crack. If they did raise $35,000 specifically for drum replacement, I would love to see some proof of that, as I thought donations to OWS were unrestricted funds and not donor advised, such as when you donate to a non-profit you can select specific programs, or unrestricted. I'll have to just donate food, water, and shelter if this kind of BS and reckless spending is going on. Keep us posted if they get the $5000 for that drum, as that will directly influence my financial support.
The night of the removal from Zuccotti Park, four uniformed 9-11 memorial workers were lurking near the piles of our property that the police would not let us get to. When the opportunity arose, the 9-11 memorial workers took some of the drums as well as a couple of other things. Did they give the drums back yet? They are on film walking away with our property, in uniform. This was a clear injustice and illegal act that was allowed by the police and sanitation workers at the scene. Was the 9-11 memorial contacted directly? These four vultures need to be held accountable for preying on the people when they were vulnerable and unable to respond. When one protester followed them and asked for them to return the merchandise, he was cursed at by one of the uniformed memorial workers and prevented from continue to follow them by police. An absolute injustice that must not go unanswered.
Any proponent of a revolution needs to be acquainted with history of revolutions. Most of the revolutions end up with a big guillotine that decapitates most of its leaders.
French revolution Between 1793 and 1794 around 40,000 people were killed. Two of the initial leaders Georges-Jacques Danton and Maximilien de Robespierre were beheaded through the laws they created. Jean-Paul Marat was murdered.
Russian Revolution of 1917 Most of the revolutionary leaders were murdered as well as 20,000,000 people most of which initially welcomed the revolution
People's Republic of China Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 40,000,000
When next time you hear a call for revolution ask the callers if they are ready to be killed by their comrades.
http://occupywallstreetmusic.com/
"Blood Money"
Corporations want to get paid and they dont care who bleeds Thats why my sneakers are made by children over seas And their hourly wage is not enough to eat, but companies get away because no one oversees. man It’s about the G’s, better get em Because I’ve seen the poor get ignored by the system. But in reality I see the poor are the Victims of this cannibal animal called capitalism. Wheres the lack of division between the haves and the have-nots? Chance to advance but they plan so you can not. Get the jail route if you caught with that crack rock get a bail out.... If your crimes are from bad stocks. Cant stop trying to find answers how can they deny coverage when they find cancer. Tax breaks for the rich while the poor trying to buy Pampers. You cant prepare for the life after with your Blood Money.
Wall Street ruins lives for that Blood Money In Iraq soldiers dying for that Blood Money
Politicians committing crimes for that Blood Money Fox News telling lies for that Blood Money
We ignoring human rights for that Blood Money The environment sacrificed for that Blood Money
We all going to pay the price for that Blood Money Thats what they want from me
The Planet gets warmer cuz you filling up your Humvee the cash from countries where kids going hungry. Drug war in Mexico is getting kind of ugly and we support it every time we buy a bag and puff trees. You must see the terrorist that want to bomb you get there money off the drugs you put in your nostrils. And I support that Julian Assange dude he showed us who we killing when we bring them bombs through! Do what I’ve got to, I’m just tryna survive shopping that gross product from off of I-95 Because thats how we was brought up, how we was taught to survive knowing we going to get caught up and locked up for our crimes i’m from where the greed breed hopelessness Politicians on the TV they dont think we notice it. Give me a week of them Wall Street bonuses I’ll take it to the streets and feed homeless kids off of this BLOOD MONEY
So, as predicted, you are letting those willing to use force, and those willing to be the most relentless and ruthless, prevail in your soviet, instead of ensuring the liberalism of authentic democracy by reining in those sectarians who insist on force (in this case, loud drumming).
No surprise there, comrades. Welcome to Bolshevism versus Menshevism. Let's hope you don't last 75 years.
I personally dislike having a "ruling class", it doesn't bug me that they fly around in helicopters so they never have to mingle with us on a bus or subway. It doesn't bug me they live in closed and gated communities. No, this does not bug me because it's their lives to live as they please. What does bug me is that they try to enforce upon us their ideology, they think theirs is the only opinion that matters. That we who are too stupid to have clawed and scrapped our way up the financial ladder can't possibly know whats good even for ourselves. For far too long we have let people with catchy slogans and nice suits, sell us the same bullshit that keeps us mired in the status quo. This two party system where people are given only two choices to lead their country is crap. Since when is Democracy a two sided affair? Someone please post and explain to me how it makes sense that only two very old and dated parties could know the pulse of the people. Especially when the very same people who run for office are the children of those who have held office previously. Yes, I am talking about families like the Bushs'. We all know Prescott Bush was charged with treason and that he supported the Nazis, yet his son and grandson was elected to lead the free world... Does this make sense? America and much of the world has been hijacked by a very quiet and secretive "ruling class". Where things are settled and discussed internationally without our knowledge or approval... Is that Democracy? This movement means to me a call to action, political action; direct action, any kind of action its time to DO something about it. America was once a Beacon of Freedom and Hope for the poor and oppressed, now America is a Beacon of the Rich and Powerful.
I must clarify I do not say that Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. are Nazis, I merely imply that the man who had such an impact on both of their lives, that they followed in his every footsteps in politics and secret societies, must have also imparted some of his own beliefs into them as well. The Winners of War write history books and I do not want history to read that this movement died out as quickly as it started if our children are even allowed to learn history under the NWO. I believe that the rich and powerful have always looked for something that defines them from us. They look for some reason beyond luck and circumstance to explain their good fortune. I believe this to be true of most of us. We all look for what defines us and where it used to be our morals and ways of life defining us as people now your job and bank account define you as a person. We together have changed the face of this planet. It was not a singular person who rose from animal hood into the Age of Man, it was together in small communities at first that we rose up from being more than our environment dictated. I see a dark future ahead a future filled with much struggle and austerity. There is hope too in this dark world, hope that we give the world to the next generation better than when we inherited it from ours. I refuse to believe that petty in-fighting, and tribal; and racial hatreds, can hold us back. We are the 99%. We are the writers of our own destinies. We are NOT defined by what we can buy but by what we have to give as human beings. The 1% as people are not bad they live the only life they have ever known in most cases. Others have made themselves and were not given a single thing EVER and that is to be respected. Any and All who stand in the way of change so that corporations can continue to export war and destruction so they can compete for the rebuilding contract are the enemy. We were not given the option of sides in this war, we are the enemy of the rich because the constitution that says we are their equals. The rich are bored with being rich they want power over our lives. Do not let your children fight in wars and die so that rich and the wealthy can live the American dream. This movement is at a crossroads, we can squabble to each other over how long the drummers can drum, or WE can DO something about it. I say go out and confront people over this, I want to see videos of CEO's getting blasted for their ineptitude with OUR money. I want to see Rockefeller sweating his piggy little forehead off under a constant and never ending barrage of outrage at his under handed secretive shaping of society. I will not be lead into the abyss of perpetual debt the 1% would have us believe is the only and best way. America, you have stood up to the greatest powers at the time throughout history. Be it Great Britain under its inbred kings or The Great German war machine. Now it is time America to Stand up to your Greatest threat of all, one that comes from within America. The Oligarchs and elite have worked you to exhaustion and as you fall and die carrying the extra weight of the rich they profit off of you with their "Dead Peasant" insurance claims. Even in Death the ruling elite get the last laugh
Do we really want our National Guard posted and on stand bys to prevent civil unrest? Is it worth it to the GOP Tea Party millionaires at the tax cut trough, to increase costs in homeland security for all because of their contempt for the unemployed? Will it be worth to us all to leave unemployed extensions in the abyss?
2011-2012 A Deluge Of HOBOs! Should You Learn The Language? Today graffiti is prevalent on walls, residences, businesses and the infrastructure in America. A result of gangs slinging communication at each other while leaving the general public puzzled and bewildered. But this isn't the first time that indigenous groups have used code to converse with each other. In the 1930's millions of Hobos developed their own unique system of symbols which could be found on street curbs buildings and crossroads nationwide.
Here are the lyrics to Country Carl's Hobo Up: Song is the National Anthem for the Homeless
Kick this town, find the tracks Start over again and pass the hat Jump a bus if you have the cash Or use your truck until it's out of gas
Hobo Up Take a good friend Hobo Up This is not the end Hobo Up break a leg Hobo Up Open roads are for the brave
New depression blues cross our land Forget the bills forget the old plan A new wave lies bgeyond the hills Change your job build a wind mill
Do we really want our National Guard posted and on stand bys to prevent civil unrest? Is it worth it to the GOP Tea Party millionaires at the tax cut trough, to increase costs in homeland security for all because of their contempt for the unemployed? Will it be worth to us all to leave unemployed extensions in the abyss?
2011-2012 A Deluge Of HOBOs! Should You Learn The Language? Today graffiti is prevalent on walls, residences, businesses and the infrastructure in America. A result of gangs slinging communication at each other while leaving the general public puzzled and bewildered. But this isn't the first time that indigenous groups have used code to converse with each other. In the 1930's millions of Hobos developed their own unique system of symbols which could be found on street curbs buildings and crossroads nationwide.
Here are the lyrics to Country Carl's Hobo Up: Song is the National Anthem for the Homeless
Kick this town, find the tracks Start over again and pass the hat Jump a bus if you have the cash Or use your truck until it's out of gas
Hobo Up Take a good friend Hobo Up This is not the end Hobo Up break a leg Hobo Up Open roads are for the brave
New depression blues cross our land Forget the bills forget the old plan A new wave lies bgeyond the hills Change your job build a wind mill
What will work is for enough of the "Drummer Community" must lead by example and create it socially unacceptable to OVER drum. Us drummers play on our knees and bodies all day ANYWAY. I'm sure some Drummer leaders can create rhythmic solutions that are in sync with drummers need to play, but are not loud enough to bother and distract during "quiet hours"
I've been a drummer for 20 years and immediately can understand the necessity for drummers to understand the proper times for playing. DRUMMERS: You will have a GREATER impact by playing during agreed times only. If you are a true musician, you will embrace the concept of: LESS IS MORE!
Thank You to the occupy wall street and the 99% 's it is about time that We get the greed out of wall street and Money out of politics
i am throwing out an Idea here We all know what black Friday is right or Do we why call it black after all we all win right , the 99% get a bargain and the Corporations get there bonus that i feel they do not Deserve. So why not this year Make Black Friday Black for them And every person that agrees with occpuy wall street and the 99% of us Should boycot shopping On that day , you can still go the day before or the day After and you agree with the 99% of this nation do not buy a car that day if we can bring this Economy to a halt even if it is for just one day they will listen to our grievances.!
People have the right to respectfully request that the drumming be toned down in the same manner that they respectfully request that people stay non-violent, ect. We live in society where you don't have the right to DO anything you want. BUT people DO have the right to exercise freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. As far as I know no drummer was pepper-sprayed by anyone other than the police so the "pot calling the kettle black" argument is a moot point.
The drummers are going to kill the goose that lays the golden captive audience.
In the last election, the young voters came out in record numbers. Those voters are statistically democratic. Well you got your "CHANGE" while the corps keep the dollars! OWS is mostly the same demographic. PLEASE, before you throw another election, educate yourselves and understand there is NO SUCH THING as a free lunch! The government is NOT going to save you. You need to stand up and SAVE YOURSELF! Yeah I know Obama inherited a handful, but things have gotten FAR WORSE than better. So much for "CHANGE" The 2 party system is BROKEN! VOTE INDEPENDENT!
Drummers create energy into the air, resonating something deep within our being, our auditory space, which which moves all of us into a rhythmic unity... However freedom vs. control is an interesting reality of liberty for all.
I've seen several people refer to Socialism and Communism regarding OWS. Yet most, if asked to give a clear definition of these terms, would be hard pressed to do so. What is communism is a great question to ask the average person walking the streets. Here's a simple excercise that can clarify this discussion for so many that have just accepted we live in a "free country" as we "spread Democracy" around the world...
Let's look at 3 documents side by side. The first is the Ten Commandments, and it matters not if you're Christian, Jewish, Atheists,... , we're just going to look at the document. The second is the Bill of Rights and the third is the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx.
The first says: Thou shalt not... The document is based on the concept that we have the right to pursue life, liberty and happiness as long as we honor those around us. That in our pursuit we don't knock down our neighbors fence or do anything that might be injurious to another human being. It's a basic foundation of morals and integrity.
The second document, The Bill of Rights, was an addendum to The Constitution which was a binding document from We The People to restrict the government to operate within the 10 square miles of the District of Columbia. That document was presented to some very wise people who said: "Great job, but not quite good enough..." They created an additional 17 articles, 10 of which were accepted as The Bill Of Rights, Freedom of speech, Freedom of press, Freedom of religion,....
The third document is the Communist Manifesto stating: Government control of transportation, Government control of education, Government control of farming, etc...
Now of these three documents, which do you feel is closer to the way our country exists today?
Yes drummers have the right to express their frustration and help unify people together, as long as they honor the integrity and space of others, as in understanding the spirit of the first two documents and vision of the founders.
http://www.freepatriotism.com
Regarding the neighbors who are negatively affected by the drumming, has anyone considered offering compensation to them? The survey on the front page said 70% of OWS protesters are employed, and also OWS is receiving donations so maybe you can spare some money. Or you could offer your labor as compensation, maybe replacing some of your protest signs with messages encouraging pedestrians to visit small businesses nearby. You are the 99%, but so are the drummers and so are some of the people being impacted so you should stick together. Obviously you feel some responsibility for what the drummers are doing or else you wouldn't be trying to make them stop, but if repeatedly asking them to stop isn't working then the neighborly thing to do would be to try to make amends in some other way. Your logic seems to be that as long as you continue to fruitlessly ask them to stop you think you've done enough and can just otherwise wash your hands of the whole thing. That's not right.
Great thoughts from BathroomGirl! Proving that a beautiful compromise can usually be found! Perhaps it could be tried? I am from Occupy Tucson, and can well understand the conflict. Drumming is certainly well-intentioned but not appreciated by everyone (like me!), especially non-stop. @ sdcheung, I would say that using "Fly-Over State" as an insult makes you appear to have been raised in a hovel, except, I have respect for people who live in hovels.
midtown west new yorker here - I support everyting that @occupy is doing and many many thnkx for helping and creating a more mentally healthy USa and wolrd by creating a new dialogue -- RE; Drummers: I have been to liberty sq 4 times now - truly value the beauty and primative cry of the drummers and all that represents...I go downtown to pray and meditate to the drums around the tree of life: please dont ever stop!! my prayers that you resolve it all peacefully but who ever reads this I love the drummers and part of the reason I look forward to going back and dance with my breathen....brothers and sisters solidarity....please dont chase away the drumming !!
There's nothing wrong with or ironic about recursive self-similarity, many organic structures exhibit it and I'm not suprised to see it here in the way that the drummers within the occupation resemble the occupation within new york. However, this is only one way to look at the situation - another is to see the people not in terms of a hierarchy of nested sets (ny > ows > drummers, etc) but to see the people as a network of individuals each with their own intents, interests, directives, etc - and to include in this network not only the drummers, protestors and general citizenry of the city but also the police, the media and the global audience. In this context the simplified image of the drummers as a microreflection of ows tends to break down as they can easily be seen as another group of individuals with their own unique position.
Could someone get down to the very basics for beginners here? Why do people form these drum circles? And why do they gravitate to protests to do so? What's the point of the drumming?
It's probably time for all serious minded people to realize that the real work is not and will not occur on in the Park(s). Let the drummers et al have the park and continue your daily meetings elsewhere. This way, you can get a good night's sleep and be up ready to give energy to what will really work n the long run: building an Organization. I know it is hard to let the Park go but if things are so anarchic that you can not even get stupid fucking drummers to stop, then this is hopeless. I like drummers but there is a time, a place and a time limit for this stuff. I suggest they walk and drum over a different route each day and those who want to go with them, do so. The point is to draw attention to the movement. You can have a Flag, a Fife and Drummer leader the parade of drummers, dancers, artists, etc. and make sure you have literature to pass out. They could do this daily for a couple hours and it would be super cool.
Great job everyone ! I think limiting the amount corporate officers can draw in salaries would make the companies more profitable hence increasing profits could be put into expanding and which creates more positions. That should be the rules for every publicly owned Corporations. Unfortunately private companies such as the onesthe Koch Brothers own would not be affected. I also feel that the Glass and Steagall act should be brought back and tightened. When it was removed all hell broke loose. Banks could now trade stocks and buy as much real estate as they wanted because the bill was removed,which was the only thing holding them back. According to New Scientists “AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy” (Coghlan and MacKenzie Oct- 2011)http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html
I think limiting the amount corporate officers can draw in salaries would make the companies more profitable hence increasing profits could be put into expanding and which creates more positions. That should be the rules for every publicly owned Corporations. Unfortunately private companies such as the onesthe Koch Brothers own would not be affected. I also feel that the Glass and Steagall act should be brought back and tightened. When it was removed all hell broke loose. Banks could now trade stocks and buy as much real estate as they wanted because the bill was removed,which was the only thing holding them back. According to New Scientists “AS PROTESTS against financial power sweep the world this week, science may have confirmed the protesters' worst fears. An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy” (Coghlan and MacKenzie Oct- 2011)http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html
I have been following the movement closely and this ridiculous drumming issue is the first 'real' thing I've seen that makes OWS appear hack. I have great faith in the serious potential of OWS. If a few passive / aggressive drummers can't get their head out of there ass to see the potential damage of their selfish expression then they need to be treated as agent provocateurs. As a matter of fact, if the problem drummers were actually agent provocateur planted by the powers who want to shut down OWS, then it's a brilliant move because it's almost working. Nevermind how much energy has been wasted on these people. I'd like to mention I am a drummer and successful musician who utterly understands the power of music. Less and more focused drumming will have a way bigger impact because it becomes and event, not just an overplayed blur in the background. I'd like to say to the drummers who can't see this are not only outside of the positive sensibility of this movement, but also outside any musical sensibility that contains the higher potential of music; unification, connection to the divine, emotional resolve and meaning in general.
Liberty Park Community Board 1 meeting is at PS 234, 292 Greenwich street, 6: 15 pm. Who is going to be there to speak for the 99%?? I hope its not the drummers... "Community Board 1 is the neighborhood org of people who actually live there. They have the right to raise issues that will push police to get involved, or to say they support the occupation and leave it alone. They have apparently passed some kind of resolution. It is important to get people who are organizers, and who are articulate, cleaned up, and calm, to go to that meeting to represent to CB1 that there are, for example, x many people cleaning the park x times a day, and that there are physical and mental health care professionals there, and whatever else they want the neighborhood council of elders to know."
Drums and Demonstrations When NOT to play: http://puppetista.org/drums/#etiquette
Seriously, someone needs to man up and just break their fucking drums and send them packing. This is beyond ridiculous. Who the fuck are these people? Are they so clueless that they can't see they are actually threatening the very existence of OWS? SOMEONE JUST WALK UP WITH A FUCKING HAMMER AND BUST THEIR FUCKING DRUMS!!
This seems like psychology 101. When a group forms a hierarchy starts to form by individuals passive-aggressively asserting their dominance through imagined grievances. Isnt society now a far more complicated example of this paradigm. The Main threat to this movement is not the police state but internal divisions. Dont start an 'arms race' with the drummers and the volume of your voices. Use you ingenuity to find a way of making them your work song. It is well documented that during the slave exodus from Africa to the Americas, slavers who did not bring their slaves on deck to play drums and dance lost the majority of their slaves to suicide and disease. People for whom music is a way of life can not suffer the indignity of being marginalised because of their identity. They are your strongest voice, use them!
If the overwhelming majority think it is hurting the movement then they either need to comply or leave. This IS NOT about them. If they are sincere occupiers why would they jeopardize the movement with their own seemingly selfish and self-indulgent non-compliance. Makes no sense.
drummers=retards
How the drumming issue is handled is being watched by many who might join the movement. Will there be fairness, reason, respect, boundaries? Is this a healthy family? Will the occupiers be evicted because a few 'teenage' family members don't respect the neighbors and don't listen to the needs of others? Constant drumming is maddening if you are not the one doing it. This helps no one, threatens the whole community, and could bring down the occupation. If the drummers won't respect the rights of others, they should go...
It is very hard to hear what's going on with the constant banging of drums, it's nice to open the space to other "vibes" that don't necessarily include the monotonous pounding of drums. I play percussion some times but think that there is a monopoly on the sounds coming from Liberty Square by the drummers, and I would certainly like to hear a variety of music interspersed with some quiet times for talking, films, etc. Anyone remember the Slits song, "Silence is a rhythm too!" Plus which, I think it's true that the perpetual drum circle sort of makes the OWS movement an easy target for ridicule, not that people who want to bring us down won't find something else to make fun of. But why make it so easy?
The drummers are exactly like the Wall Street bankers--they don't care what the other 99 percent think, as long as they get to do what they want. Grow up. And by the way, it's not music--it's noise.
it appears that the drumming is a contentious, divisive, disruptive, intrusive and annoying practice and not the "bringing rhythm to the revolution" as the drummers contend. in fact, the only people who appear to be deriving any kind of benefit from the drumming are the drummers themselves. its clear that, in the best interest of furthering the revolution, the only solution is to permanently ban drumming from the square and from the movement. democracy does not mean that everyone gets to do whatever they want or even that everyone gets a voice especially if that "voice" is contentious, divisive, disruptive, intrusive and annoying to the majority of the people.
One in twenty five Americans is a sociopath. Not axe-murderer type sociopaths, just run-of-the-mill everyday people without the capacity of empathy, or a sense of moral responsibility to others. These people are drawn like moths to a flame to situations that will allow them to exercise their pathological needs to hurt others, to win, to feel the disgusting and obscene thrill of power over another person. This explains bullies. This is why cops mace innocent women. This is why Wall Streeters steal. This is why drummers want to poison the occupation. These behaviors are, very precisely, unconscionable.
Unfortunately, there is no reasoning with people who do not possess empathy, they simply don't have the capacity to understand an argument based on moral responsibility. That would be like trying to explain particle physics to a cat.
There are only two options when dealing with sociopaths. They respond to negative consequences that are overwhelming, personal and severe… which isn't realistic in this case. The only other option is exclusion.
There are some very dark and disgusting corners of the collective psyche. Sociopathy will be an ongoing problem. The GA will have to figure out a way to deal with the pathological 4% of the 99%.
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...the police should be called...
I bet that it's annoying as hell... but they don't care do they? Its their right to drum - so dammit - I'm going to drum - screw everyone else!
Equal time should be given to the Trumpets. Please bring your trumpets to add some melody and harmony to the movement; the movement can not survive on rhythm alone!
BathroomGirl for President! Just Kidding. I found your idea to be incredibly constructive and powerful. I actually got a little choked up reading it because it was such an inclusive solution to the problem and rather than trying to silence the drummers, you put them at the forefront of the movement. Maybe they can develop specific drum chants that everyone can identify with the movement as a constant reminder that we are alive and strong and will not rest till real change echos throughout the city.
the excess drumming is distracting and the attitude of the drummers is silly. i don't know how else to say it. it is absurd that such a trivial issue is occupying so much of everyone's time and energy, especially when there's no shortage of seriously important work to be done.
If the GA is the supreme decision-making body of OWS then its decisions need to be adhered to. If they aren't, there needs to be a mechanism by which they can be enforced.
Do you think you could set up a democracy and rule by majority? Maybe? You lose credibility when you can't speak with a common voice FOR THE COMMON GOOD as your members, in a democracy define this fluid term. The drummers REFUSE to comply with the consensus and the Community Board that supports you?
As I waited on the steps for the start of the GA last night, someone said 'Make way, musicians coming through'. and we moved aside while the drummers graced the GA with their presence (I say this because they usually continue drumming during the GA's) .I followed them to listen in on what they saying among themselves and to get some idea of what they were going to propose to the GA. They spoke in hushed tones and used words like 'us' and 'them' and someone said 'we will tell them what we want...' They sounded so independent from the revolution that I had to ask them if they felt separate from the rest of us, and if their desire to drum 24/7 was more important than us being allowed to stay in the park. One of them said the drumming was being used as an excuse and that 'they' will find another excuse to get rid of us even if they stop drumming. Suddenly, when speaking to me, we were 'us' again...
To those who see commies in their underwear. They imply that rationalizing capitalism is communism or perhaps that capitalism cannot possibly be fair. To the drummers, live and let live as in the golden rule. You are cooking up a shit sandwich and forcing everyone to eat it. You have been given a lot and a lot is expected of you. That is fair and fairness, not some sidewalk psychology about drumming that is weak, lame and stupid (perhaps as a result of your euphoric high, which you, the drummers only seem to have) has been offered. Look at the handwriting on the wall, if you are ostracized by this group then where can you possibly go?
On my way home from the park last night something was bothering me about the GA meeting but I could not put my finger on it. This morning it hit me! I have always thought it was odd that the drummers continued drumming during GA's as if they did not care about anything but themselves, and last night sure enough, after they said what they wanted to say, they left. They did not stay to listen to the announcements of other groups. The bottom line is they want us to honor their right to express themselves, but they walk away after they have had their say.....They claim to be the heart of the revolution, but the heart is not selfish. It does not walk away after it is finished. It cares about others....
i noticed that too. they walked off, as if leaving a stage. i heard a couple of guys even say "congratulations" , "good going",etc...WTF?
omg! the drumming argument is extremely petty nobody said that the drumming was a bother they just simply asked for it to be cut back. everbody is supposed to be working together to achieve a common goal letting something as small as drumming cause conflict is simply childish everybody has a voice and everybody deserves to be heared.... let it go people its not that serious.
Actually, the residents in the community have complained about the drumming. The rights of others to live in peace is not a petty issue...
omg! the drumming argument is extremely petty nobody said that the drumming was a bother they just simply asked for it to be cut back. everbody is supposed to be working together to achieve a common goal letting something as small as drumming cause conflict is simply childish everybody has a voice and everybody deserves to be heared.... let it go people its not that serious.
Drummer should use them STRONG AND LOUD ENERGY in the marches during protests. Sounds can be a force to concentrate or disperse, so let's use appropriately.
Revolutions are the backbone of our world's history in creating change. A drumbeat of sorts has always been used in every revolution for morale and overall mood. You can't please everyone. I like the drumbeat.
OWS We Will Rock You .................................................. We will, we will rock you We will, we will rock you Buddy you're a man - make a big noise marchin' in the street gonna be a big man today
You must not stand in place You big disgrace We are the cause for you to embrace
We will, we will rock you Singin We will, we will rock you
Buddy you're a young man,hard man Shoutin' in the street gonna take on the world today You wont stand in place Y' big disgrace Wavin' our banner all over the place
We will we will rock you Singin' We will we will rock you
Buddy you're an old man, poor man Pleadin' with your eyes gonna make you some peace, some day You cant stand in place big disgrace We are the people- the cause for you to embrace
We will we will rock you Singin' We will we will rock you
everybody We will we will rock you We will we will rock you
"Bringing rhythm to the revolution?"
Surely, you jest.
What do you call a guy that hangs out with a bunch of musicians?
A drummer!
I support OWS, but the drummers should just STFU.
this is tough because we need a place to discuss but we also need to build up intensity...
drummers should consider playing polyryhthms in keeping with our many-voiced movement.
Quote: "neoliberal economic practices"
Quoi? Why not plain English: neoliberal economic practices = unbridled greed.
iamtheeggman 1 points 0 seconds ago This group is only trying to suggest demands to the GA- you guys know that. So they are not speaking FOR anyone. They are merely suggestin proposals for the GA toapprove or reject. But it seems some of you over there may be to close minded to even be willing to talk about it. How democratic of you permalink edit delete ↥ ↧ iamtheeggman 1 points 0 seconds ago Why do you keep removing my posts? I am only asking questions? Are you afraid of ideas you disagree with? permalink edit delete ↥ ↧ iamtheeggman 1 points 0 seconds ago And may I ask, who are you guys empowered by? What makes YOU the arbiters of what is and what is not legitimate debate?
I'm a strong believer in the war against the 1%, but only a mildly sympathetic fellow-traveller with the whole anarchist, consensus, do-what-you-want method of the OWS movement.
OWS is losing its virginity here. A small group of selfish clowns and space cadets (PULSE is LIFE) is fucking the whole thing up for everyone and the principles of the movement demand that we stand idly by or at best make passive aggressive suggestions that the very important drummers kindly, if you please, slightly moderate your oh so wonderful constant noisemaking for a little bit from time to time, if it's ok with you that is.
I'm willing to stand back and see if OWS can come up with creative solutions. Maybe some kind of mass shunning, like 100 people surrounding the drum circle and people's miking "shut the fuck up!" or something.
Seriously though, I'm about ready to put my foot through a drum and I know I'm not the only one.
I like the drumming.
My problem is that if I hang out too near the drummers for too long I begin to lose my hearing.
The problem to me isn't that there are drums, it's that there are so many drums, being hit so loudly, by so many people at once.
Brass bands can be overpowering too. Put enough tubas and trombones together and all conversations have to stop within many yards of the musicians.
A small hand-held sound-level meter could be used to measure and regulate volume levels at the drum circle and elsewhere in the park.
I say "don't stop - just play softer." Having a couple of decibel meters on hand could ensure that folks stay below the sound pressure limit.
Perhaps the drummers have become caught in a pleasure trap of supernormal stimuli? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_Stimuli http://www.amazon.com/Supernormal-Stimuli-Overran-Evolutionary-Purpose/dp/039306848X "Our instincts—for food, sex, or territorial protection— evolved for life on the savannahs 10,000 years ago, not in today’s world of densely populated cities, technological innovations, and pollution. We now have access to a glut of larger-than-life objects, from candy to pornography to atomic weapons—that gratify these gut instincts with often-dangerous results. Animal biologists coined the term “supernormal stimuli” to describe imitations that appeal to primitive instincts and exert a stronger pull than real things, such as soccer balls that geese prefer over eggs. Evolutionary psychologist Deirdre Barrett applies this concept to the alarming disconnect between human instinct and our created environment, demonstrating how supernormal stimuli are a major cause of today’s most pressing problems, including obesity and war. However, Barrett does more than show how unfettered instincts fuel dangerous excesses. She also reminds us that by exercising self-control we can rein them in, potentially saving ourselves and civilization."
Hearing loss is also a bit of a social disease -- people play loud music (especially at weddings, but also at jam sessions) and then other participants and the audience lose their hearing, and then these newly deafened people crank up their music, and others lose their hearing, and so on.
While a short time of fasting or a few weeks of willpower can reset our taste preferences from unhealthy foods (too much salt, too much sugar and refined starch, too much oily fat, too little fiber), unfortunately hearing loss is usually not so easily fixed: http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article16.aspx
Technology is an amplifier (even just non-electronic drums). We need to be careful what it amplifies, and, as you imply, collectively figure out appropriate healthy limits and monitor and enforce them.
As Paul Graham says: http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html "Already someone trying to live well would seem eccentrically abstemious in most of the US. That phenomenon is only going to become more pronounced. You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't think you're weird, you're living badly."
I've only been to the Plaza twice - do my views and "voice" bout the same as those who have camped from the beginning?
How does the Movement integrate external supporters and new members?
You folks need to mature past the adolescent stage of life and be creative in a productive way. There is nothing stopping you from working for yourselves, create your own Jobs why wait on someone else.
You could start with: Cut Grass Doing Carpentry Fixing Bicycles Fixing Motorcycles Fixing Autos Playing Music Give Music Lessons Lemmon Aid Stand Bake & Sell Cupcakes Tutoring, Kids young and old I could list a hundred examples; however if you can’t see the opportunity before you to move forward and succeed then you are truley Lost to protest others success.
Revolutions are the backbone of our world's history in creating change and every revolution always has a 'drumbeat'. Why should the 'occupy' movement be any different with no drumbeat? Vive la revolutione! And keep the drumbeat.
Regardless of the drumming issue, I love the self governance aspect of this whole conversation!
It shows tolerance and respect for each individual's dignity, yet a collective community right to impose restraints on individual freedom.
As Garrett Hardin argued lone ago in his classic essay on the "Tragedy of the Commons": mutual coercion mutually agreed upon.
Love it!
I'm with Bathroom girl - have the drummers organize marches and dance events throughout the city during the day.
That would make 2 hour time restriction in Liberty Plaza more palatable.
I hope the drummers will not violate the consensus of the GA. They may end up being the Trojan Horse Bloomberg is looking for when he refers to the rights of the people in the neighborhood. If they are a common law nusiance the NYPD may have an excuse to intervene.
I traveled a long way yesterday to donate my support, clothing and a bit of cash to the OWS movement. I deeply appreciate those that have chosen to stay in NYC for the long haul. I was deeply saddened and dissappointed at the anger and rage that erupted in the late afternoon at the far end of the park. I am aware that the issue of drumming has been a long standing one. I am a drummer myself and know what it is like to have parameters on playng. it stinks! However, the display of rage (yes- rage), profanity, and screaming created quite a scene. Passersby on the street gathered outside the barricades to witness the ugliness of it all. The cops were enjoying it, I can teel you that. Then the crowd got large enough so that the police told people on the sidewalk to "move along".It was reality TV at it's best! What I observed was not consensus, it was not democracy. It was a breakdown in "the process". It was downright bullying. The small group of drummers started pounding away on their instruments so that no one could be heard. It was (in my opinion) a coup. It left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Air your dirty laundry inside- not on the perimeter of the park. That type of scene does not support the cause. Quartzhorse
thanks for the report it does indeed sound like quite a moment in the course of things what happened after? what will happen now? I think BathroomGirl's idea was very good.
Hi people, you have all my respect and support. Corporate greed is certanily a great cancer of this world but is not the root cause of all evil. In europe and specifically in Italy, corporations do not have such a leverage on politics but, as you may very well know, things are not going much better than in U.S. In my opinion the world corruption can be greatly reduced if every protest demands a DIRECT DEMOCRACY. If people replace the congress then they can stop all the laws and bailouts and wars they want to stop. Today is not hard to gather votes electronically (like the youtube thums up, for example). In a direct democracy people can decide how much should be the salary of a politician and if it is not much more remunerative than any other 'normal job' then only the ones who really care for the wellness of the nation will remain in office. Let's think about this together.
How can you claim that Itlay run by Berlusconi who is just using his media empire to remain in power so he can avoid a trial for tax evasion and maffia ties and who is a business and media mogul who prefers decadent bunga bunga parties with nineteen year olds, is not in corporate hands? On the other hand I fully agree with direct democracy with modern technology it's possible and it would make the bribes go to the people and keep coporate excesses in check.
the last thing OWS needs is a bunch of steroid-slurping hippies who won't ever shut the hell up despite being asked to by every single sane person for an entire month. They've made the whole of donwtown hate us. It's a hippie infestation. http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103809/hippie-infestation.
Police defy Governor and refuse to arrest OWS Protesters Cuomo and Jennings ignored.
ttp://www.alternet.org/story/152854/newyork_cops_defy_order_to_arrest_hundreds_of%E2%80%98occupy_albany%E2%80%99_protesters/
How can any major change in the way we are governed or in the way the financial world operates ever be made? The GA reaches a consensus, 2 hours, the drummers reach a consensus, 4 hours, yet the drumming goes on beyond that time? This simple issue of respecting the rights of neighbors hasn’t been worked out over the past few weeks to the satisfaction of anyone, except maybe some of the drummers. How can you expect to get any credibility about your ability to solve major problems if you can’t resolve the simple things? Resolution as measured by actual results, which would mean quiet times are actually quiet.
Drums draw attention of people ,only attention but distract those who think ,concentrate on things,try to understand things and those who want to sleep.We should think as to when and where to drum.Drums are very necessary but near those who do not know about this movement.Drums express our success but not meant to be a hurdle in achieving our success.Every body loves drummers they should also love the people by stopping unnecessary drumming.
not helpful to have people who demand all the attention and will not compromise. sounds like republicans and democrats. makes you wonder if they are there to try making you look bad to the community. Matches the description of the screeming brat that some commentators try to make you out to be.
We should be concernful about every body in order to help them and never be angry on each other.
Revolutions don't really follow rules..... That's why I doubt the integrity of this so called "revolution." I appreciate some of the ideas, but I think they its too soft to call a revolution. Its like family hour at the park......... This is a movement our government can handle.... only when they can't control it will things be taken seriously.
How can you revolt while remaining obedient and abiding by city ordinances?
The police should be afraid of us! The 1% should be locking themselves in their bathrooms gripping their crucifixes. The desired effect is to have them feeling that the only option is to change the way things are, for they will face serious harm or despair if things don't change.
Peaceful, orderly, and quiet, revolution?
I'm sorry, but if you chose the center of action as your home then complain when the action starts then you will just need to suck it up. You can deal with a little discomfort while people outside in the square protest for America's future. Freedom of speech is not only between the hours of 8am-10pm.....ITS 24-7!
Interesting point...should the movement be more disruptive, isn't that the point? Some good points made in Huff but she also highlights the wear-your-Sunday-best approach to command respect with undeniable integrity to win people over to your side: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/occupy-wall-street-bloomberg-free-speech-right-to-disruption-_b_1026535.html?ir=Yahoo&ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=2262612,b=facebook
In building a functional civil society and a true democracy, we take heed of the concerns and needs of others and we adhere to decisions made by consensus. If these drummers are not interested in that, perhaps they have their own movement and should find another park. There will be plenty of respectful, consciencious drummers left to lead us into marches.
All the means are good to reach the objective. Drumming is useful to capture the attention of lazy, indifferent, egoistic, miser, disinformed people. The italian drummers are the 30% of the nation. When they will be the majority in every country, the liberism will be definitely defied.
I love drumming and a lot of other people do too. Honestly, a lot of people and tourists were drwan into the park because of the vibrant sound and the energy of the drumming group. That's the opportunity for a lot of folks to come to find out there's an OCCUPY movement going on. For that I have to give some credits to the drummers for attracting crowd to get near the park.
Hi dear drummers: I know your passion on drumming, I know you have your heart and mind on this movement, I believe you want to see OWS to advance and gain force, FAST. Then please understand the importance of the daily conversations between OWS occupiers and the public. Only through conversation and education, more people would come join the force, only this way we could strenghen our movment. To achieve this goal, we all need quiet time to process the action. Let's work it out for the interest of the majority, let's fight for this cause all together. Going around to drum in all different parks and squres to spread out the words for OWS is a brilliant idea. Be a mobile publicity to increase OWS visibility. Present to people in different areas the message of equality, peace and love of this movement.
If drummers want to continue to call attention to drumming vs, OWS, then their approach and refusal to abide by the rules that they agreed to is working. If not, where is the "voice" of a Pulse member in this forum? I can say that if I was a neighbor in that area and was a big supporter of OWS, this would be enough to make me reconsider since this is not a decision that should be that difficult to make or enforce considering the consequences.
As it has always been thus with us humans. But in the spirit of peace and love to all that is a strong sentiment of this movement, I hope the spirit of One Tribe prevails.
Consensus and Economic Democracy, are very much needed to progress towards a steady state sustainability. Fairness has to be learned by some who have grown used to constant conflict which shapes their ability to work with others and sometimes block ability to discuss ideas. New ideas can be seen as a threat.
Making sense has to be backed with good information.
Back to the main purpose - spreading good information about the 1% destroying our society.
http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152811/the_shocking%2C_graphic_data_that_shows_exactly_what_motivates_the_occupy_movement_/
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"Tell them to occupy their own park, if they won't comply. Make it clear this park is ours,"
But it's not.
"if they won't respect the majority opinion then they are provocateurs."
So, let's see, that would mean one from one provocateur to another?
more talking, less drumming
OccupyWall Street has jumped the Shark!
global solutions begin in the minds of individuals, visit and contribute to vastken.com
LOL soon the 1% will be paying people to go drum all day in Liberty Square, unless they already are...subversion is a hydra.
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The best part is there are mediators, and a working group with an actual name. If you guys can't even align with your drum corps, how the hell could this system work at any kind of scale. Bush League bullshit.
This is probably a sign that the OWS is doomed. Arguing with drummers? You got to be kidding me? The musicians want to play and their selfish desires take priority over common sense? This is no longer a protest but a cultural event, pure and simple. Now, I am beginning to understand the mockery of this group. Might as well pack up and go home now. Pathetic. The opposition is just waiting for the group to self-destruct.
The problem with this article is that it is of limited interest. Basically those impacted by the drummers and the drummers themselves. Its a housekeeping issue. Minor in scope. Perhaps fine for a personal blog. And perhaps I am off base in saying so, but it just doesn't resonate with me. it doesn't speak to the world audience that is watching. it won't matter one way or another in the wider scope of what ows is about. and considering how busy you must be, i am surprised the time was taken to write this.
its not bad that you did. i am just surprised.
good luck to you out in NYC. in solidarity from the west coast.
hi aaron i disagree ... in fact this is a most fascinating element
I will be hanging in for updates (from across the atlantic)
Please stay focused on the task at hand! You have soooooooo many counting on you all over the world. This should not be an issue, remember what brought this movement together. Stay on task, and not let this be a distraction. The 99% need you! God Bless
I agree with the comment below. Early on I was at a GA meeting while drumming was going on and it was very difficult to hear what people were saying. I am a musician and play percussion, but I think it's nice to have quiet time and a greater diversity of music. It allows more to happen. Last night was extremely pleasant, between Occupy Cinema, the new cordless headphones for the Reverend Billy speech and others (the People's Library rocks!). Although it's fun to drum, drumming can get monotonous, and it's good to have a variety of musicians and instruments. Glad to hear of the mediation.
This is a big issue when the Albany and NYS police refused an order to evacuate the protesters at Occupy Albany? (Who by the way are holding a rally on Friday, October 28th to extend the NY Millionaire Tax that ends on December 31st and despite 72% of New Yorkers agreeing, Cuomo is refusing. His NY Times quote: "The fact that everybody wants it, that doesn't mean all that much".)
I think the idea of drums everywhere through the city! Great idea!
Oh for the love of Pete.
The people united will never be defeated!!..I´m really glad that people like you in the very heart of the Neoliberal Empire stand up against that Power...against that wealth and financial minority that controls very much of the world...I´m from Argentina...and we know how neoliberal politics can crush an entire nation just in pieces...we suffered that just ten years ago...but we stand up...we hold the pressions of IMF, and that powers....and now..we stand stronger than ever in our History!!...so...Hold!! Fuerza Compañeros!
Interesting article and comments....it does seem rather self indulgent to continue to drum during the meeting but I can also see the problem of what do you do if they won't stop....how do you "make them stop?" I wonder if you can find a location nearby to hold GA and other meetings, where people need to be heard? Then everyone is happy.
Please everyone, work together! You have to hold on to Liberty Plaza!
I was there Saturday when a drummer demonized a woman from the GA and wouldn't allow here to speak. We all demanded that her voice be heard and eventually it was. This is not all the drummers but I saw similar occurrences. I have the most respect for the drummers. I have grabbed a stick and joined on occasion and love dancing to them. But there's an important word: COURTEOUSNESS This is important in forming a strong community where everyone can have a voice. I do not and will never DEMAND that the drummers reduce their hours of drumming. However I ask that they be courteous to the others (especially those who are sick, tired, or just in general trying to sleep) in the park and also to those who live in the nearby community. I have heard that many tenants around there love OWS but that the noise late at night is making it hard to sleep. Not everyone in that district is allied with the 1%. Most are of the 99% like us and should be heard out. I do not ask that all drumming stop. If the drumming stops all together I will take to the street against who ever enforced that!!! However, I want the drummers to know that we love and respect them and all we ask is love and respect in return.
So many opportunities to grow! Always remember that these things are nothing more than a sort of fertilizer for our consciousness to rise higher. It will be worked out!
I agree. Be Strong, Have Faith in Good and Keep Growing. Fair-ness.
i agree as well. work together. dont be divded over stupid things like drumming. The drummers are great, everyone there is great. work together respect everyone, and have fun.
this is a wonderful, balanced, expository, yet persuasive piece. will the writer please private message me? name is Ben, a filmmaker/writer too.
I haven't read anything this unintentionally funny in a very long time.
Brian Are you the Judean People's Front? Reg Fuck off. Brian What? Reg Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea. Judean People's front, caw. Francis Wankers. Brian Can I join your group? Reg No. Piss off. Brian I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody. PFJ Sssh. Ssssh, sssh, sssh, ssssh Judith Are you sure? Brian Oh. Dead sure... I hate the Romans already. Reg Listen. If you really wanted to join the PFJ, you'd have to really hate the Romans. Brian I do. Reg Oh yeah? How much? Brian A lot! Reg Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front. PFJ Yeah Judith Splitters. Francis And the Judean Popular Peoples Front. PFJ Oh yeah. Splitters. Loretta And the peoples Front of Judea. PFJ Splitters. Reg What? Loretta The Peoples front of Judea. Splitters. Reg We're the Peoples front of Judea. Loretta Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front. Reg Peoples Front. Francis Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg? Reg He's over there.
lol!
Wow, now some of my posts are getting deleted. They did not use any profanity and I am entitled to my thoughts, views, ideas and postings just like anybody else posting here. So much for OWS claiming no corruption.
Hey guys, you need to step back for a moment and realize that the fact that this comment board even exists is embarrassing. Fortunately for OWS, most of the media is sympathetic and looking the other way for now, but if OWS gets moved out of the park because you could not come to a consensus on keeping the Sixties cliche drumming thing in moderation, they will take note. And many people will laugh at you and many more will simply scratch their heads.
This is why it's important to get out more, understand that not everybody thinks like you. There are many forms of music out there for one. Colonizing peoples ears with perpetual martial-sounding drumming is not democratic.
When the thing in the park ends, I recommend taking a page from the Beats. Strap on a rucksack, hop a freight, wander the nation, explore nature, get to know the people. Learn the dialects that people speak outside of your tiny circle. Listen to banda or tejano alongside the immigrants working the jobs you haven't applied for. Get to know your country and its diversity so that you won't doom yourself again to repeat the same tiresome memes
You folks need to mature past the adolescent stage of life and be creative in a productive way. There is nothing stopping you from working for yourselves, create your own Jobs why wait on someone else. You could start with: Cut Grass, Doing Carpentry, Fixing Bicycles, Fixing Motorcycles, Fixing Autos, Playing Music, Give Music Lessons, Lemmon Aid Stand, Bake & Sell Cupcakes, Tutoring, Kids young and old, I could list a hundred examples; however if you can’t see the opportunity before you to move forward and succeed then you are truly Lost to protest others success.
You folks need to mature past the adolescent stage of life and be creative in a productive way. There is nothing stopping you from working for yourselves, create your own Jobs why wait on someone else. You could start with: Cut Grass, Doing Carpentry, Fixing Bicycles, Fixing Motorcycles, Fixing Autos, Playing Music, Give Music Lessons, Lemmon Aid Stand, Bake & Sell Cupcakes, Tutoring, Kids young and old, I could list a hundred examples; however if you can’t see the opportunity before you to move forward and succeed then you are truly Lost to protest others success.
Why should most people pay you to do those sorts of things when they could get a robot to do them? Or get a better mass produced product that solves the problem and only requires a very few jobs in its production? Robots can cut grass or services can do it quicky (with only a few workers). We've already got many unsalable houses at the moment as far as carpentry. Bicycles last a long time now, as do cars. Music is essentially free, and people can learn from the internet how to play better for free. Does anyone need to pay the drummers? Lemon aid and cupcakes are unhealthy with all the refined sugar and refined starch (and so just create jobs for doctors). Khan Academy does great tutoring for free. http://www.khanacademy.org/
See: http://econfuture.wordpress.com/
Or: http://freeworldcharter.org/
Uless you are producing for yourself in a subsistence economy (in which case you still need land and to pay taxes on it), you can't "work for yourself" without customers. It is hard to compete against the capital-intensive industries owned by the 1% at this point. Maybe not impossible in some areas, but very hard, and most people won't be able to do it no matter how smart, lucky, or hardworking they are: http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/47
You folks need to mature past the adolescent stage of life and be creative in a productive way. There is nothing stopping you from working for yourselves, create your own Jobs why wait on someone else.
You could start with: Cut Grass Doing Carpentry Fixing Bicycles Fixing Motorcycles Fixing Autos Playing Music Give Music Lessons Lemmon Aid Stand Bake & Sell Cupcakes Tutoring, Kids young and old I could list a hundred examples; however if you can’t see the opportunity before you to move forward and succeed then you are truley Lost to protest others success.
You folks need to mature past the adolescent stage of life and be creative in a productive way. There is nothing stopping you from working for yourselves, create your own Jobs why wait on someone else.
You could start with: Cut Grass Doing Carpentry Fixing Bicycles Fixing Motorcycles Fixing Autos Playing Music Give Music Lessons Lemmon Aid Stand Bake & Sell Cupcakes Tutoring, Kids young and old I could list a hundred examples; however if you can’t see the opportunity before you to move forward and succeed then you are truley Lost to protest others success.
Simple respect for local residents -- failing to do that carries OWS over into disturbing the peace. And for no damn reason.
"But this drumming issue is, in a tiny way, making OWS look silly" -- yes, indeed. If the drumming was a lunch hour expression, no problem. Just inflicting more damn decibels on the already loud Lower Manhattan... that's the irresponsible side of "silly." Try this for sensible K.I.S.S.:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9913/owsfaithhopecharityandw.gif
You folks need to mature past the adolescent stage of life and be creative in a productive way. There is nothing stopping you from working for yourselves, create your own Jobs why wait on someone else.
You could start with: Cut Grass Doing Carpentry Fixing Bicycles Fixing Motorcycles Fixing Autos Playing Music Give Music Lessons Lemmon Aid Stand Bake & Sell Cupcakes Tutoring, Kids young and old I could list a hundred examples; however if you can’t see the opportunity before you to move forward and succeed then you are truley Lost to protest others success.
what is it about your need to be heard? are your pathetic little lives going to be so much better with a drum? get a life/get a job/stop asking for handouts and free stuff. YOU ARE ALL TRULY PATHETIC!
Stop be nauseating to your neighbors and go back from where you came.
Why don't you go home you Fly-Over State Yuppie douchebag.
My husband and I have been keeping track of OWS and have been dismayed by the reports of discord and in particular about the drummer group Pulse's disagreements with the GA. For two days I have tried to make a suggestion regarding this issue to OWS, and it seems this is the right place.
I think Pulse should recognize that their efforts would go unrewarded at all, were it not for their unique present situation. That said, however, I feel that they should receive remuneration for performing or that at the least they should receive financial help for instruments that were vandalized, need replacement or maintenance/repair.
So, I have a few ideas:
First, I think they (or perhaps Arts & Culture) should have a dedicated donation link on-line or perhaps a separate PayPal account.
Second, they and you could set a goal for how much they need for instruments and remuneration for their performance efforts, and when that amount is reached through donations the rest could go into the "Arts and Culture" fund.
Third, while performing, they could take direct donations in a "donation box" for instruments and agree to give a percentage of what they take in to "the house", just like a regular band.
Perhaps with these ideas you can reach a consensus and greater cooperation.
We sincerely wish you great success in this endeavor.
Neighbors complaining = It's working.
Do their $6k/mo rents and indoor parking garages give them the right to demand the air outside their window be still, silent, and just-like-they-like-it. On what grounds do they truly complain? Because these will not stand up in court - yet our Millionaire Mayor is eager to use this Excuse of a complaint to once again take a stab at evicting a Constitutional, Non-violent protest without seeming a monster and the power of his $.
Druming all the time is an act of violence against other people - especially preventing people from sleeping. This has serious health repercussions (physical and mental). IT IS AN ACT OF VIOLENCE.
The people should be considered provocateurs, and I suggest that OWS work with the police to have there people removed and arrested if they don't stop.
Is OWS about non-violence or is it not. Are these people engaging in violence? Considering the health factors to those in the neighborhood, they are violent and have repeatedly acted with total disregard to other people and the OWS movement in general.
"I suggest that OWS work with the police to have there people removed and arrested if they don't stop"
Um, don't you see the contradiction in saying this?
Maybe the Drummers are spies from the 1%!!!!!
I don't want to work I want to bang on the drum all day I don't want to play I just want to bang on the drum all day
Ever since I was a tiny boy I don't want no candy I don't need no toy I took a stick and an old coffee can I bang on that thing 'til I got blisters on my hand because
(chorus)
When I get older they think I'm a fool The teacher told me I should stay after school She caught me pounding on the desk with my hands But my licks was so hot I made the teacher wanna dance and that's why
(chorus)
(instrumental)
(chorus)
Listen to this Every day when I get home from work I feel so frustrated the boss is a jerk And I get my sticks and go out to the shed and I pound on that drum like it was the boss's head because
(chorus) (repeat)
lets just deal with it. is it loud, chaotic, even maybe sometimes obnoxious? sure sometimes maybe. dealing with a little adversity can only make us stronger. we should discuss, appeal to reason and all but all this talk of forcing anyone to do anything or deciding or trying to exclude an integral part of the movement is just not going anywhere good. the idea of reaching out and using other parts of the city both for the GA and drumming and other activities which might need a quieter vibe is great.
I think the trial period for the lets deal with it and the lets appeal to reason phase probably expired a few weeks ago, but I absolutely love the idea of sending the drummers on missions to occupy other public spaces. This will surely lessen the negative impacts in the neighborhood and bring joy and attention to the movement in other places. Drumming, like many things, is great in certain amounts.
:)
What about 1 hour intervals throughout the day between 11am and 8pm?? Drummers will then be available for marches, as well as sounding out the beat and pulse of the 99%.
Hey, invest in one of those chess-tournament clocks, and people will make a great game out of the whole keeping time issue.
Also, if we're trying to engage new people, having more breaks between sets will open the door to many more visitors to interact. I've been there a few times and the drumming is enticing, but my attention span is limited, its hard for the shy or unsure to get involved. It would amazing to also have unaccompanied singers, maybe even some poems and short stories; that would welcome even more people into Liberty Square, and keep the pulse of Occupy Wall Street loud and strong.
"What about 1 hour intervals throughout the day between 11am and 8pm??"
If that is valid, to be fair, how about not just the drummers, but this idea be used for the whole OWS?
wait... so there is a small percentage of OWS that is holding all the money and not sharing farely. sounds a lot like wall street and government. the drummers must be the 99% of the 99% right.
I don't think that's a fair characterization -- although I don't know the circumstances behind the damaged drums, if the general assembly (which the drummers are free to attend and vote in) decided that it was not a good way to spend money that must also be used for other things, how is that a "small percentage"?
There is unrest in the forest, There is trouble with the trees, For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas.
The trouble with the maples, (And they're quite convinced they're right) They say the oaks are just too lofty And they grab up all the light. But the oaks can't help their feelings If they like the way they're made. And they wonder why the maples Can't be happy in their shade.
There is trouble in the forest, And the creatures all have fled, As the maples scream "Oppression!" And the oaks just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union And demanded equal rights. "The oaks are just too greedy; We will make them give us light." Now there's no more oak oppression, For they passed a noble law, And the trees are all kept equal By hatchet, axe, and saw.
Down with oaks! Up with maples!
ummm WTF? I love it, I think. Can I have some of what you're having?
I'm just a geezer old enough to remember the song, by Rush
drummers=retards
Oddly, this whole drumming thing seems to be a holier than tho issue and throws OWS right into OWS's own face. The drummers have as much right as the rest of the folks there, whether they are there for OWS or not. And the argument about respect is circular, because if it was about respect, OWS would not be in Zuccotti in the first place.
Animal Farm? Hmm.
And once the drumming is figured out, it would be good to move onto what's happening to all the money OWS has that seems to be living a life of its own.
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music is harmony and melody and the temporal rhythm of that melody and harmony. It's not noisemaking. A revolution is too revolt. OWS is slowly developing into a starbucks without the coffee. Also the people drumming (calling them drummers lacks any insight into identification) is not a show of support. Drumming doesn't solve the problems. It drowns out thought. Drummers are not a requirement to any revolution. People, like-minded, sending a clear message to the oppressors is what is needed. QWS jumped the shark with this post. As a born and bred NYer I say squash the drumming and get down to real business.
Like singing or meditating, praying etc, drumming is a spiritual expression. Talking is not. Get a lil spiritual rhythm in your heart, mind and soul. it’s the drummers that make the difference in the march. A drum is nothing without the drummer and OWS is nothing without each person having a right to their individual expression. If you need some space I suggest that you go get a job at NASA. Quiet time? Would you like me to send you a blankie? Your cold and tired? You have not even gotten started, winter is upon you focus on preparing for it. What your choosing to miss are the beats of the spiritual elements that are there a direct result of the drummers, learn to dance. Instead your opting for the noise of that which defiles, which is not drumming but that which comes out of your mouth.
Member? OWS is not a resort, golf club, spa etc. why are you trying to make it into a family or a community? Now your all are caught up in the strings of the puppeteer that forces you to move and create ripples among yourselves. It is a revolution not an endless overnight camp. Could you imagine Gandhi telling people that they could only do this or that at this hour or that? OMGoodness do you even hear yourselves? You are making decisions for others and then approaching them and asking them to adhere to your agenda. What do you think that you all are doing to everyone who is working, sleeping, eating, nursing, sick, along your marching path? I don’t see people arched out their windows throwing you manna from heaven. Its not a parade it’s a march and you are standing for something good and important. Next you will be having meetings to decide what proper attire is for people at OWS. This is exactly what those against OWS are waiting to happen. Embrace don’t disgrace, you are all equal. I had a father and I have a mother and am not looking for a group parent or to allow any one person to ride me or anyone else.
Don’t let your garden become overrun by weeds that will only serve to choke the life out of all the wondrous growth. There is a sound being heard worldwide it is the noise of the gears that are squealing because you are not there to oil them, something to be truly proud of. Not this wining over a spiritual form of communication. You have not insulted the drummers you have offended the spiritual realm with this nonsense.
Well what if the "spiritual realm" is really annoying?
ITS ONLY ME WALKING ON A SEA OF FLAMES
Oh my dear sweet debutante, sent forth on a pale grey horse, carrying a cup filled with ash. Let each of us contend that there are still empty seats in the arena and that still, the raven flys above circling, searching for its landing where there is none to be found. For all that lies below is covered by a sea of flames that fills the air with a haze of smoke and the stench of death. I chose only to drink from the cup filled with the water of truth runs through my veins and delivers the vision of you to me, the heraldic emissary. I receive all who come to my door, stranger, friend and foe, knock and it is opened, ask and you shall receive, seek and surely you will find. Now come and take rest here, sit with me, I have prepared a table especially for you. We will break bread and drink wine together, for your journey has been a long and spiraling pass through unknown corridors breaking the barrier of time. Your gift, a relic of lore scrolled thousands of years ago like hieroglyphs versed from ancient symbols. But at last you have reached your destiny unfolds like petals falling from the hip of the rose. Let it be known to one and all, although I disciple the good fight, I tempt God not, I leave the art of spiritual warfare to the angels of darkness and light.
©2007 Petra Maricela Thompson Violetarojo Just for you thomas312 my brother! Enjoy.
Don't worry. I think your prose is safe.
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Thank you for your reply! There is a time and season for all things, indeed. In a concrete jungle some hear sounds only as noise, yes even the beat of a drummer from a drum circle. I am firm on love over hate and kiss over kill, light over darkness, good over evil, God over satan. In this I dance and sleep with the drummers, for me concrete scrapers are no different than being in the woods each have their own story and beauty. I love all sounds including silence. I stood outside and the wind sent me four feathers one from each corner of the earth. I declare them for the drummers, may those who serve to oppose their enchanting beauty be transformed by the same godly breath that carried these feathers to me today. As far as rituals it seems to me that there are far too many practicing the most common of all western rituals, I believe it is named whine. Be kind to the drummers, they as you were called to be there doing what they are doing as you do what you do. God bless each and everyone of you. Have a lovely afternoon!
The mediators aren't asking them to leave, they're asking them to be respectful by compromising.
Your condescending tone isn't helpful.
Do you read yourself before you post? Read back what you just said. Not asking the drummers to leave? Like they could or they would, OWS does not own this revolution nor you or I. No leaders means no one person or group has the right! My tone? Of what my hair dye? You would have to ask my hair dresser for that information. Well then its a good thing that my intention which is my outcome is to serve truth and not man. I am no mothers helper! I can do a hell of a lot of things in the kitchen darlin but lets be clear the only time I wear an apron is when it’s the only thing I have on.
The drumming is the only presence that seems to have any consistency. The rest of the movement is chaos.
I love the drumming! It brings a lot of energy to the park. I agree it shouldn't be allowed during the GA and late at night but 4 hours seems a little limited.
Four hours of drumming is limited? That's over half a shift at my job, two full length movies, and the time it takes me to drive to WV.
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Drummers, and OWS have Buenos Aires respect, we know whats going on,
Our advise, let the drummers drum.
OccupyWallStreet is once again the most viewed and commented upon organization on littlebiggy. share your thoughts. http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
wait... so there is a small percentage of OWS that is holding all the money and not sharing farely. sounds a lot like wall street and government. the drummers must be the 99% of the 99% right.
Great point......
What will happen when the drummers don't go along with the mediators. Will OWS perhaps invent a new philosophical concept like - say - "property rights"? Will you ultimately use force to silent them if you must? Where could it all lead . . .?
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Roaring truth: Condemn venal journalism for severely fooling the people http://occupywallst.org/forum/condemn-venal-journalism-for-severely-fooling-the-/
How dare you silence the drummers OWS!! They're expressing their outrage at something that pissed them off a long time ago, probably a Banker, or even worse, a rich Banker who lived next to them, and hated listening to them drumming, and kept calling the Police!! Rhythm is the only true form of protesting, everybody knows this!! And now you want to silence them? I say, NO!! God you People are silly!! You really make me laugh!! I can't stop reading about you, and what you are all up too, at the various Occupy location across the Country!! Go home already, your Folks miss you, your dog wants to play with you, and the drumming really does sounds like crap!! Sorry, but it really does, the Banker was right, it's annoying!! Or don't go home, and let me keep laughing at your protest movement, that's never going to get you anywhere, except maybe sent to jail (again)!!
Just 4 U http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152811/the_shocking%2C_graphic_data_that_shows_exactly_what_motivates_the_occupy_movement_/
Most important part of this post " I can't stop reading about you, and what you are all up too, at the various occupy locations across the county!"
No matter that you don't seem to support the movement, you still can't stop watching. Means we are winning!
thanks for paying attention to our movement :)
You can't avoide or ignore us, we are everywhere. Just like you can't ignore the injustices that are happening in the country, they will get you eventually. We all must stand and fight together. This country is overdue for a revolution!