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Forum Post: Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law

Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 4, 2012, 12:16 p.m. EST by zhazha (1)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

July 28, 2012

Doctor Shortage Likely to Worsen With Health Law

By ANNIE LOWREY and ROBERT PEAR, The New York Times

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — In the Inland Empire, an economically depressed region in Southern California, President Obama’s health care law is expected to extend insurance coverage to more than 300,000 people by 2014. But coverage will not necessarily translate into care: Local health experts doubt there will be enough doctors to meet the area’s needs. There are not enough now.

Other places around the country, including the Mississippi Delta, Detroit and suburban Phoenix, face similar problems. The Association of American Medical Colleges estimates that in 2015 the country will have 62,900 fewer doctors than needed. And that number will more than double by 2025, as the expansion of insurance coverage and the aging of baby boomers drive up demand for care. Even without the health care law, the shortfall of doctors in 2025 would still exceed 100,000.

Health experts, including many who support the law, say there is little that the government or the medical profession will be able to do to close the gap by 2014, when the law begins extending coverage to about 30 million Americans. It typically takes a decade to train a doctor.

“We have a shortage of every kind of doctor, except for plastic surgeons and dermatologists,” said Dr. G. Richard Olds, the dean of the new medical school at the University of California, Riverside, founded in part to address the region’s doctor shortage. “We’ll have a 5,000-physician shortage in 10 years, no matter what anybody does.”

Experts describe a doctor shortage as an “invisible problem.” Patients still get care, but the process is often slow and difficult. In Riverside, it has left residents driving long distances to doctors, languishing on waiting lists, overusing emergency rooms and even forgoing care.

“It results in delayed care and higher levels of acuity,” said Dustin Corcoran, the chief executive of the California Medical Association, which represents 35,000 physicians. People “access the health care system through the emergency department, rather than establishing a relationship with a primary care physician who might keep them from getting sicker.”

In the Inland Empire, encompassing the counties of Riverside and San Bernardino, the shortage of doctors is already severe. The population of Riverside County swelled 42 percent in the 2000s, gaining more than 644,000 people. It has continued to grow despite the collapse of one of the country’s biggest property bubbles and a jobless rate of 11.8 percent in the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario metro area.

But the growth in the number of physicians has lagged, in no small part because the area has trouble attracting doctors, who might make more money and prefer living in nearby Orange County or Los Angeles.

A government council has recommended that a given region have 60 to 80 primary care doctors per 100,000 residents, and 85 to 105 specialists. The Inland Empire has about 40 primary care doctors and 70 specialists per 100,000 residents — the worst shortage in California, in both cases.

Moreover, across the country, fewer than half of primary care clinicians were accepting new Medicaid patients as of 2008, making it hard for the poor to find care even when they are eligible for Medicaid. The expansion of Medicaid accounts for more than one-third of the overall growth in coverage in President Obama’s health care law.

Providers say they are bracing for the surge of the newly insured into an already strained system.

Temetry Lindsey, the chief executive of Inland Behavioral & Health Services, which provides medical care to about 12,000 area residents, many of them low income, said she was speeding patient-processing systems, packing doctors’ schedules tighter and seeking to hire more physicians.

“We know we are going to be overrun at some point,” Ms. Lindsey said, estimating that the clinics would see new demand from 10,000 to 25,000 residents by 2014. She added that hiring new doctors had proved a struggle, in part because of the “stigma” of working in this part of California.

Across the country, a factor increasing demand, along with expansion of coverage in the law and simple population growth, is the aging of the baby boom generation. Medicare officials predict that enrollment will surge to 73.2 million in 2025, up 44 percent from 50.7 million this year.

“Older Americans require significantly more health care,” said Dr. Darrell G. Kirch, the president of the Association of American Medical Colleges. “Older individuals are more likely to have multiple chronic conditions, requiring more intensive, coordinated care.”

The pool of doctors has not kept pace, and will not, health experts said. Medical school enrollment is increasing, but not as fast as the population. The number of training positions for medical school graduates is lagging. Younger doctors are on average working fewer hours than their predecessors. And about a third of the country’s doctors are 55 or older, and nearing retirement.

Physician compensation is also an issue. The proportion of medical students choosing to enter primary care has declined in the past 15 years, as average earnings for primary care doctors and specialists, like orthopedic surgeons and radiologists, have diverged. A study by the Medical Group Management Association found that in 2010, primary care doctors made about $200,000 a year. Specialists often made twice as much.

The Obama administration has sought to ease the shortage. The health care law increases Medicaid’s primary care payment rates in 2013 and 2014. It also includes money to train new primary care doctors, reward them for working in underserved communities and strengthen community health centers.

But the provisions within the law are expected to increase the number of primary care doctors by perhaps 3,000 in the coming decade. Communities around the country need about 45,000.

Many health experts in California said that while they welcomed the expansion of coverage, they expected that the state simply would not be ready for the new demand. “It’s going to be necessary to use the resources that we have smarter” in light of the doctor shortages, said Dr. Mark D. Smith, who heads the California HealthCare Foundation, a nonprofit group.

Dr. Smith said building more walk-in clinics, allowing nurses to provide more care and encouraging doctors to work in teams would all be part of the answer. Mr. Corcoran of the California Medical Association also said the state would need to stop cutting Medicaid payment rates; instead, it needed to increase them to make seeing those patients economically feasible for doctors.

More doctors might be part of the answer as well. The U.C. Riverside medical school is hoping to enroll its first students in August 2013, and is planning a number of policies to encourage its graduates to stay in the area and practice primary care.

But Dr. Olds said changing how doctors provided care would be more important than minting new doctors. “I’m only adding 22 new students to this equation,” he said. “That’s not enough to put a dent in a 5,000-doctor shortage.”

Annie Lowrey reported from Riverside, and Robert Pear from Washington.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/health/policy/too-few-doctors-in-many-us-communities.html

113 Comments

113 Comments


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[-] 1 points by 1971 (154) 11 years ago

excellent point

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Mom tried to tell you to get off that darn internet and go to medical school!!

But did you listen? Oh, no. Not you.

You likely even went so far as to back (R)epelican'ts!!

they don't like us very much.

In a recent post, we explained how Republicans’ pathological opposition to health care reform is motivated by the GOP’s fear that reform will demonstrate that government can be successful in improving the lives of everyday Americans. Because of this fear, conservatives have sought to derail President Obama’s Affordable Care Act (“ACA”) through lawsuits, 31 separate and pointless votes by House Republicans to repeal the law, refusals by GOP Governors to implement various portions of the law, and more than a quarter-of-a-billion in advertising attacking the law.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08/03/why-is-the-gop-working-to-make-health-insurance-more-expensive-for-working-families/

They are still looking for ways to make it cost you more too.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

corpoRATist's in office openly rebel against the Government And People of the USA.

Whats up with that?

No response from government or the people on putting down this open rebellion.

Whats up with that?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

the people are scared of being fired

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

A lot of people are already out of work and on the street.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

that's why those working are so scared

that and a lack of safety net

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Well I have always believed better to stand like a man than live like a mouse. Hiding from the conflict will not save those who are scared to get involved.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Reagan taught them that they are the problem, and the (R)epelican'ts are running with that football.

Amazingly enough, some people still vote for them...........:(

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Eye Opening - just how much "real news reporting blackout" coupled with propaganda spin and lies - can mislead the majority of the people.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

A FLAKESnews worth seems to be working for them.

Spice that up with a dose of Limbaugh/Beck/Brietbart/Drudge, etc.

and there you have it.

Bamboozlement.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

I think we need an independent lab to check our water too.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

No can do.

That might reveal what's in those fracking chemicals, and that's a secret......:)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Like the colonels secret recipe? {:-])

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Kind of, except the oil corporations have a lot more money to hide things.

After all, we can't have Joe Blow knowing how to frack in his own back yard.

That might create competition.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

True True just think of all the independent planet destroyers. Nope we wanna keep that from happening.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

WE simply must leave destroying the planet to the profit experts.

Poisoning the water table with chicken spices can not be tolerated.

There's not enough profit there.

Now fracking? That's a whole 'nuther story.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

LOL - the chicken spices might be a healthier alternative though. {:-])

Fracking should be banned made illegal as a crime against humanity.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Well, we could coat the planet in chicken spices.

The oil corporations are well about the business of deep frying the planet as we type.

Regular, or extra crispy?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

ooo - I don't think we have a choice - the way the climate is changing - we will be lucky if it isn't burnt to a charred crisp.

[-] -1 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

That's right you Dems want to control people's lives and direct them what to do. You want to steal people's money and stop them from worshiping God.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

We don't wanna steal any money, we don't want anything for free. (nothing is free) we just want our money back from the 1% plutocrat criminals who stole it with the help of your republican puppets.

And I thought the bronze age fairy tales of "god" were dismissed as such already.

god is dead!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

It is not stealing from the wealthy - if anything it should be looked at as perhaps eminent domain for the good of the whole country.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

Exactly.

1Up 4 U

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Careful I am toxic today the little miss OWS attacker Betsy Ross has said so. {:-])

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

Really? I will gladly expose myself to your toxic disease.

Have at it. take your best shot.

Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

{:-]) seriously don't tangle with that one if you can avoid her - she is one nasty piece of work. I shit you not.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

ok. fair warning. I don't think I know her.

good luck.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

cheers.

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[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

So let me get this straight, I work to get straight A's through high school, pay my way through undergraduate college, get straight As, go to work, do so well that I am accepted into Graduate school, get a graduate degree, go back to work, make a lot of money, save my money - don't buy a tv set - and my tax rate is higher than the person who didn't finish high school, did drugs, was lazy and took a job at the local McDonalds. How is that fair? How are you not stealng my money.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

That is an innaccurate, unfair description of what I am advocating.

The 1% plutocrats have stolen the money of the 99%. The only way to correct the economic crises is to get our money back.

90% tax rate on income over $1mill end all deductions/shelters for the millionaires.

Cut taxes/debt of the working/middle class. to increase consumer demand/hiring.

It's the only way.

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

You didn't earn the money, I did. So you want to reward to people who don't work hard and penalize the people who do?

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

The 1% plutocrats did NOT earn it, Did not work hard. They sit behind desks enriching themselves on the exploitation of others work. They make their money using cds scams, LIBOR manipulations, investment algorithms.

They make money sending our jobs overseas, stealing our pensions, increasing our health premiums, lending us money at loan shark level interest rates, they hide assets overseas & get politicians rig thetax code so they can avoid all taxes. and many other scams.

You stand with these lazy, greedy, traitorous criminals. And you think I'm gonna?

whatta joke.

[-] -1 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

So you want to get into a argument as to who works harder? Come on, I will gladly take you on. Nobody is exploiting anybody. Nobody is forcing you to work, you can quit and go on welfare.

You don;t have a righ to a job, What world do you live in

So Steve Jobs is lazy, Jack Welch, Mark Zuckerberg? Yeah, they are all lazy?

You don't want to work and want a true socialistic society where ne'er-do-wells like you sit around. That's the truth.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

"ne'er do well"? calling me names shows your inability to argu the facts.

I have been successful just fine. Worked very hard all me life. Personal attacks against me are unnecessary. I am not your enemy. I do NOT want to argue with you about anything.

We disagree. I stand with the good, honest hard working Americans who have been exploited by lazy, greedy, selfish, 1% plutocrats.

No need to argue. Just acknowledge our differences and move on respectfully.

Peace.

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

You are the one who told me that I didn't work hard. You are the one saying that I am lazy and did not work for it. I put myself through one of the hardest universities in this country and did it while working. So come on, you want to call me a traitorous criminal?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

I don't know you. I never accused YOU of anything. You pretend I have because you come to this site to engage in personal attacks.

I do not. Nor will I. Sorry. I am not your enemy. We just disagree.

If hard work was the real measure of who becomes wealthy there are millions of people doing the most difficult jobs in America who are being shortchanged.

Peace

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

You don't think there is a correlation between hard work and success?

You want to divide America. You are the one who wants to take from one group to give to another. You are the one who wants to penalize those who do well and penalize those who don't.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

I want to penalize the criminals who have rigged the tax system and perpetrated a redistribution of wealth from the 99% workers, to the 1% desk sitters.

You don't speak for me boss! I want to undo the taking of wealth from one group (most of the country) to give to the thieving group (1%).

Peace

[-] -2 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

So now you are saying that I don't work. Did you put yourself through colleger while working?

Rigged the tax system - over 10% of the population pay 70% of the budget and 47% of all people pay no federal income tax. How was money taken from you unless you are in the 10%.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

You are a wrong thinker - and a real live stinker. You support the wealthy stealing from the population and call reform theft. If it was up to me your BS would be deleted. But then again you are a good example of the thoughts of the actively greedy.

So carry on - asshole - carry-on.

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

How did the wealthy steal from the population when the top 10% pay over 70% of the budget?

I don't discern between wealthy and poor, between supposed workers and desk sitters, between 1% and 99%, I believe in liberty and that all people should be free to pursue their dreams and treated equally by the government. You want to take away my liberty because I worked harder and succeeded.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

WTF do you do? And wake up to reality the rich have been getting richer while the rest of us have been getting poorer. And they have been doing it off of our sweat blood labor and taxes.

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[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

I pursued multiple degrees in college , and payed for it myself by working. I didn't do drugs, didn;t buy a flat screen TV, didn't get a tattoo and bought myself a suit and I got a job. So why should I be penalized more than those who didn't go to college, did drugs, spent money, and were lazy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Wake up to reality the rich have been getting richer while the rest of us have been getting poorer. And they have been doing it off of our sweat blood labor and taxes.

Would people consider you to be wealthy? Over 300,000 a year wealthy?

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

So because I worked hard and am rich and you did not work hard and are not rich, therefore I should take the majority of my money and my rewards to give to you?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Fuck off shit head.

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

So I hit the truth!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

What that your a shit head? I thought you already knew that you are.

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

LMFAO, you are really a socialist just like your brother, Barry Obama. The truth comes out, it's not about fairness but theft.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Let me guess.......mmmm.....U R a corpoRATist?

Thank you thank you no applause ...no ..no ...really......well thank you all so much....yes...yes....thank you....thank you......OK lets settle down....{:-])

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Whatever. I could never be as sick as you. Never.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago
[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 11 years ago

that's profiling. we don't do that.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Yes you do.

From voter purges all they way to these kinds of nutters.

It's all profiling.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Plus you never consider the source.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 11 years ago

I'm sure Cuba will loan us some doctors for a time being. Too bad we can't humble ourselves to ask.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 11 years ago

Most of the problem in getting new doctors is the limited opportunities for people to enter medical school. I have known two separate people, one a vet--who when he wanted to enter medical school was told he was too old--that have gone to Mexico to finish their education then returned to this country for internship and residency.

Maybe we need to revamp medical education rather than trying to limit necessary care for American residents.

[-] 1 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 11 years ago

Why become a doctor when you can sell synthetic derivatives?

[-] 0 points by freewriterguy (882) 11 years ago

who gives a rats ass, im nearly 50 years old and never needed a doctor, so whats wrong with you people why are you so sick? Ever heard of hard work and eating right? much cheaper than waitin for your neighbor to pay your way

doctors are part of the elite group, the best way to take from this class is to exercize and become healthy, otherwise all our wealth will eventually end up in their family portfolios.

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[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

I havent been to the doc in ./...a long long time. My rates just went up 23%.

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[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

It is getting increasingly expensive to become and MD (both time and money). Consider financial pros and cons of getting a Harvard MD compared to a Harvard MBA:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304039104577534621068677632.html

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

Oh the poor dr's! What can we do to help the dr's.? Let's expend resources to help more wealthy people.

C'mon. how about the poor and sick?. Let's do something forthem!

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

BTW, the same thing happened to education when higher paying employment options for women besides teaching became available:

http://dwightmurphey-collectedwritings.info/JSPES-DDM-BkRev-SuperFreakonomics.htm

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

The issue is not about the poor doctors, it is about the lack of doctors for the poor. Fewer of the smartest and most skilled young people will sign up for the gig when there are better paying alternatives that cost less and offer lower risk. The quality and supply of medical services, particularly for the poor, will drop.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 11 years ago

You're right. College should be paid for by business tax, they benefit most.

If not all. enough so that an expanded Pell grant program will make it affordable. A real review of college costs must occur as well because these costs have risen much faster than inflation.

And finally Dr's should not be burden with the expensive malpractice insurance. These things could help.

The Pres program to pay down student debt if you work in poor neighborhoods is good as well.

Any other ideas.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

I agree with you that Tort reform would be a great help (and not just in the area of medical malpractice).

Other ideas? Why not employ the same methods that have driven down the price and improved the quality of things like aircraft, heavy equipment, robotics, TVs, MP3 players, cell phones, and cars? Why have these things improved while the cost of education, health care, and public transportation gone up and service waned?

I am not a fan of giving people free stuff. First of all it is not really free. Second, people tend to assign a value to a thing based on what it costs. If it costs nothing that is the value assigned.

Also not a fan of corporate taxes. They are just hidden taxes that disproportionately hurt the poor.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

That's why the insurance corporations like to over work the doctors and nurses.

Gotta keep production per man hours worked high.

It's how profits are made.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

Well, if fewer young people choose to get MDs instead of MBAs the Corps will work the staff even harder. What's the solution?

BTW, why is there a shortage of MDs in the first place?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

We've been trying to tell you for months now that CEOs with their MBAs are incredibly lazy.

Lazy of mind and body.

There's answer to your question.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

Lazy ceos create MD shortages? How?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

1.) It's a MUCH lazier path to a career.

2.) Driving up the costs of everything, just to extract more money.

3.) Forcing down the value of actual labor.

4.) Hatred of all thing altruistic.

5.) Incredible, unstaunchable greed.

There's more, if that's not enough for you.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

Interesting list, but no data that demonstrates that lazy CEOs create a shortage of MDs.

What does create a shortage of MDs? Ask what affects the supply:

  • AMA regulations that limit the number of eligible applicants to a select few (mostly by intellect and performance, but some by cronyism and nepotism).

  • Lawsuits

  • Cost of malpractice insurance

  • Gov regulation of salaries (Medicare/Medicaid)

  • Cost and delayed earnings associated with Med School and internship.

  • Gov restrictions on treatment

  • Inability for an individual doc to make a difference in people’s health due to all of the above. This is perhaps the most discouraging element to docs in our current health care system, and is likely to get worse as Gov gets more involved. The result will be a combination of fewer docs (long queues) and lower quality.

Question for you :

Why has the price gone down and quality improved on things like: aircraft, robotics, heavy equipment, software, TVs, cars, and mobile phones, while the cost has gone up and the quality declined on things like education, health care, and public transportation?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

What quality improvement?

It's always been all about profit improvement.

In your "calculations" you completely forgot about pay offs to WallStreet!

It never seems to show up in all this trumped up BS.

How about the people a clinic must hire to deal with all fucked up "choices" we get for insurance.

Indeed, many of your "quotes" could be attributed to WallStreets need for greed.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

So you have not noticed that in the last, say, 25 years the price has gone down and the quality improved on things like: aircraft, robotics, heavy equipment, software, TVs, cars, and mobile phones (just to name a few)?

Why do you suspect that has happened?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Oh come now.

Aircraft? Do you have repair stats?

Little ones still fall from the sky with regularity.

Robotics? It's new tech, and at least some of that is fueled by govt. research.

I don't have one in my home yet.......It's still far to expensive.

Heavy equipment? I haven't bought a backhoe lately, but I have little doubt, the price has gone up. Accurate repair stats would be close to impossible to garner.

Software???

Says who? It's still glitchty, buggy, causes system crashes, and is even more bloated all the time..

TVs? Don't last as long as the CRTs, plus it's fueled by slave labor and the price fixing case the LCD corporations lost. Nowhere near as cheap as they should be, considering all the bots they use to make them, along with the slave labor. Plus twisted nematics can't reproduce dynamic range as well CRTs.

Cars? Insurance corporations and lawsuits have their consequences.

Considering they've been making the same basic thing for over 100 years, they should be a lot cheaper by now too.

Mobil phones? This is dubious at best, as quality and effectiveness vary greatly..............you can play poker on them now though.........LOL

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

Aircraft: have you flown the 787; unbelievable!

TVs. They use 1/4 the energy and LED versions last 4x CRT with 3 ms TFTs giving better contrast than CRTs with no phosphor burn (and no lead or gamma rays). Also no 3D or HD CRTs exist.

Caterpillar Wheel Loaders: increased HP, better fuel efficiency, lower cost, 30% increase in hydraulic power,every nation on the planet wants them.

Autos: better mileage, lower cost, safer, more features.

Mobile phones: Apple III given away with the data plan. More features, navigator, email, video, new aps everyday, making fortunes for small businesses world wide.

Well, that's the half full perspective anyway.

The question remains :

Why has the price gone down and quality improved on things like: aircraft, robotics, heavy equipment, software, TVs, cars, and mobile phones, while the cost has gone up and the quality declined on things like education, health care, and public transportation?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Aircraft? Still no repair stats, and nothing on "consumer" aircraft.

TVs? still BS and not a word on price fixing.

Caterpillar? Still won't pay their workers. will they be moving to Dubai, or China? One piece of equipment does not make your point well.

Cars? You didn't deal with what I said. At 100+ years, they should be even safer and $1,000s cheaper than they are. Plus 200 mpg.

Phones? Why in the World would you want to look at that stuff on such a tiny screen anyway?

Most just message and play games on them anyway. Waste of money, and satellite bandwidth.......plus they still drop calls, and are limited by tower location.

Never had a dropped call on a land line.

So I guess you really do have a half full attitude. Glazed over by PR.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 11 years ago

The 787 is a consumer aircraft. Assembled in 3 days. Incredible US engineering and manufacturing.

The question remains :

Why has the price gone down and quality improved on things like: aircraft, robotics, heavy equipment, software, TVs, cars, and mobile phones, while the cost has gone up and the quality declined on things like education, health care, and public transportation?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 11 years ago

Just to be clear, are you saying that all CEO'S in America are lazy?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

I believe what I'm implying is that they are much, much lazier than the average doctor.

Unless of course, you think the items listed are the stuff of hard dedicated work. You know, stuff that can be measured in ergs?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 11 years ago

Nope, not hard dedicated work stuff at all, but also not attributes I've seen in CEO's I've known. I was just trying to see how large of a brushstroke you were painting with.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

I met far too many managers in my life that openly admitted they went into management simply because they were lazy, and didn't want to actually work, making it a rather narrow and accurate "brush".

I would add that most had little concept of process, beyond what was written on a piece of paper.

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 11 years ago

am i sure those people are happily stuck in middle managment today. being a CEO usually takes a lot more effort

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

I suppose, if you consider sitting in an office, making phone calls "hard work".

If you consider hiring someone to handle the logistics of lay offs and out sourcing, as "hard work".

The hardest working CEO, has absolutely NOTHING on a hard working doctor.

Have they formed CEOs without borders, to help heal the problems they've caused in the World?

[-] 0 points by marvelpym (-184) 11 years ago

No, but I'm sure some CEO's give DWB lot's of money to help heal problems other people have caused in the world. They're not all Snidely Whiplash, twirling their mustaches and hoarding bags of money with $$ printed on the sides.

[-] -1 points by infreeman (-7) 11 years ago

Same can be said about the big three blue collar workers (lazy, and mostly do lousy work)

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Spoken like a person that gets all his info from folks like Limbaugh.

A statement idiotic enough, not to deserve further comment.

My advice? Get a job building Chrysler's, and learn a few things about process.

[-] -1 points by infreeman (-7) 11 years ago

It would help to get rid of the unions, then the quality will go up. Unions protect the lazy no good worker

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

the doctor shortage is created by making passing medical school so difficult and expensive

[-] 0 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

How dare they try to keep medical standards high so there aren't so many lawsuits by the democrat backed trial lawyers!

You don't like "difficult", do you. Too much work? I thought so. Much easier to post inane thought all day on a website.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

so I can't find someone to stick their finger up my butt to check for prostate cancers

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 11 years ago

I bet you can find someone at the bus station who will do that for only $1 since they didn't have to go to a difficult and expensive medical school.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

elite

[-] 1 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

Go DIY.

[-] -2 points by AnnonaMaas (-9) 11 years ago

Eighty-three percent of doctors have thought about bailing out of their careers over ACA. We may be mandated (and have access) to PURCHASE INSURANCE, but we may not have access to actual healthcare (especially if 80% of the doctors change their careers due to the legislation). Now what? Mandate doctors to practice medicine? (Do some research on the nonpartisan DPMA survey for yourself.)

My comments about this keep getting deleted. What's going on? I am following the posted rules. Are their censorship Nazis on here? (I am new to this website.)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Yeah and do what ?

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 11 years ago

An MD who also gets and MBA (which is pretty easy compared to medical school) is in high demand and they can make a ton doing things like consulting for hospitals, health clinics, private practices, pharm companies, etc. You can easily make more money doing these things as opposed to treating patients, even before ACA was passed.

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[-] -2 points by AnnonaMaas (-9) 11 years ago

83% of doctors have thought about bailing out of their careers over ACA. We may be mandated (and have access) to PURCHASE INSURANCE, but we may not have access to actual healthcare (especially if 80% of the doctors change their careers due to the legislation). Now what? Mandate doctors to practice medicine?

obamacare/#ixzz20NdF5toBhttp://www.doctorsandpatients.org/images/files/DPMA_SurveyResults.pdf

The DPMA is a non-partisan association of doctors and patients. They surveyed a random selection of 699 doctors nationwide. These are the results.

[-] -1 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

From the link AnnonaMaas cited above: 83% of physicians are thinking about quitting.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

And do what exactly?

[-] -1 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

Is that what you're counting on to keep them chained to the office under your idiot plans ???

LEARN ECONOMICS.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Is that supposed to be an answer on what Dr.s will do when they dump the medical profession?

Umm....seems to lack something......Hhmmm.......like an answer.

[-] -1 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

Here's my answer:

Golf, move into another field, move offshore or relocate to avoid the idiot economics of the democrat party.

Now WTF is your answer? Continue to ram bad policy down the throats of Americans because you want schit for free? I think not.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Universal Health Care - not for profit - action to include Ins Pharma Providers. Take the arterial clogging fat of the for profit operations out of the process.

BTW - U have a Bad Attitude. CorpoRATist Much????

[-] 1 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

Do you work for free?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Who said anything about working for free? I am saying remove the cost of greed for profits over people from the system. You have a problem with that?

( BTW - I am an advocate for the People - all of my time is given freely in this cause )

[-] 0 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

Yes, I have a problem with it. Who the hell are you to dictate what an individual or company can profit from? If you don't like profit, then don't buy a product or service that turns a profit. Make it yourself.

How the hell do you think new drugs/airplanes/cars/anything get invented? It comes out of profit. That's how progress is made.

It's not your right to dictate who can make a profit. You aren't advocating for the people. You're advocating for yourself.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

So sorry zhazha goboring. But runaway greed is what drove the economy into the ground. Runaway greed is why some of the wealthy are renouncing American citizen-ship and are running away before their abusive tax breaks get rescinded. Runaway greed is why jobs/work are outsourced to foreign sweatshops it is why our environment is being destroyed for profits. Runaway greed is why trillions of dollars are being hidden out of the country.

Wake-up.

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[-] 0 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

You sound like one of the 47% who pay no federal income taxes but want stuff for free.

You sound like a greedy (albeit lazy) malcontent.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Hey - do something useful - go slap lunchmeat-cop.

When you are done I do believe that I hear Wallstreet and the Koch's calling for their favorite ball washer - YOU.

[-] 0 points by zhazha (1) 11 years ago

Still sucking the dicks of George Soros and Bill Klinton, huh?

But unlike Monica, I hear you swallow.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Good one. I guess for a corpoRATist shill. You actually show some imagination.