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Forum Post: Discovery: how media lies documentary film - CNN FOX NEWS channel distorted contents

Posted 8 years ago on Oct. 1, 2012, 1:27 p.m. EST by john23 (-272)
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[-] -1 points by Mowat (164) 8 years ago

How does it feel to discover hot water?

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 8 years ago

Was just debating with people here that the MSM portrays real news...that's why i posted it.

[-] -1 points by Mowat (164) 8 years ago

Your's is a good post and it is important for people to know the reality of the Zionist-controlled mainstream media.

I just think it should have been known by everybody long ago.

[-] 1 points by john23 (-272) 8 years ago

I agree.

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

anti-Israel claptrap
the biggest threat to Arabs & Muslims is Arabs & Muslims
The Islamic Genocide Records of
ARAB/MUSLIM on ARAB/MUSLIM killings 1948- today:

  • 50,000 Tajikistan, 1992-96 (secularists against Islamists)
  • 40,000 Chad, 1982-90
  • 25,000 Jordan government vs. Palestinians, 1970-71 (Black September)
  • 20,000 Syria, 1982 (against Islamists in Hama)
  • 10,000 South Yemen, 1986 (civil war)
  • 16,000 Western Sahara, 1975-present
  • 75,000 Iraq, 2003-present (domestic)
  • 80,000 Iran, 1978-79 (revolution)
    -100,000 North Yemen, 1962-70
    -140,000 Kuwait War, 1990-91
    -150,000 Lebanon civil war, 1975-90
    -150,000 Liberia, 1989-97
    -300,000 Iraq, 1970-2003 (Saddam against minorities)
    -300,000 Kurds in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, 1980s-1990s
    -400,000 Somalia, 1991-present
    -200,000 Algeria, 1991-2006 (between Islamists and the government)
    -1,000,000 Iran-Iraq-War, 1980-88
    -1,100,000 Nigeria, 1966-79 (Biafra); 1993-present
    -1,900,000 Sudan, 1955-72; 1983-2006 (civil wars, genocides)

Nor is Iraq (Sunni versus Shiite) the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated.

There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.

Muslims killed 80,000,000 Hindus to conquer India Will Durant, the famous historian summed it up like this: "The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."

Koenraad Elst , the german historian writes in "Negation in India" The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new Muslim invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter. The Muslim Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on. As a contribution to research on the quantity of the Islamic crimes against humanity, we may mention that the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate)..

But the "Indian Pagans" were far too numerous and never fully surrendered. What some call the Muslim period in Indian history, was in reality a continuous war of occupiers against resisters, in which the Muslim rulers were finally defeated in the 18th century. Against these rebellious Pagans the Muslim rulers preferred to avoid total confrontation, and to accept the compromise which the (in India dominant) Hanifite school of Islamic law made possible. Alone among the four Islamic law schools, the school of Hanifa gave Muslim rulers the right not to offer the Pagans the sole choice between death and conversion, but to allow them toleration as zimmis (protected ones) living under 20 humiliating conditions, and to collect the jizya (toleration tax) from them. Normally the zimmi status was only open to Jews and Christians (and even that concession was condemned by jurists of the Hanbalite school like lbn Taymiya), which explains why these communities have survived in Muslim countries while most other religions have not. On these conditions some of the higher Hindu castes could be found willing to collaborate, so that a more or less stable polity could be set up. Even then, the collaboration of the Rajputs with the Moghul rulers, or of the Kayasthas with the Nawab dynasty, one became a smooth arrangement when enlightened rulers like Akbar (whom orthodox Muslims consider an apostate) cancelled these humiliating conditions and the jizya tax.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Funny, I studied this history in grad school and not one single professor ever recommended Will Durant for anything, ever. I find your post to be very distasteful and polemical, racist even.

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

i just sent this to your good friend bensdad - too bad for ben don't you think? "these numbers seem fairly accurate - can you also give me an accounting of the dead from the enlightened western powers? how about starting with the united states say 1776 to 2012 - then britian and france (start here with the war of the roses)- i would save spain and belgium for last - not need to do the german thing. we all know those numbers - thanks

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Thanks, flip. Exactly. This person has some real problems. I refuse to waste my breath, but thanks for summing up what is a quite complicated history of the world.

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

plenty of killing to go around - not many nation states are immune - as i said i feel bad for ben!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Actually, wikipedia is not bad on the Muslim conquest of India which is a quite complex history in and of itself:


And here is a list of deaths due to war throughout world history. There is no way he can list this inaccurate number that is contested by historians and make like they are the only people on earth who have ever made conquest through deadly war. You cannot pick and choose your history.


[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

you are right. i just read his piece and didn't realize he was trying to defend israel. the whole thing is crazy though - all you have to do is look at europe before ww1 - christians killing each other in the name of religion - lots of them! then there is the idea of muslims in iraq killing each other - they wouldn't be doing that unless we invaded. and how about turkey killing kurds - with weapons from mr billy clinton. i don't have time to look at his numbers carefully but it is a poor argument anyway - israel is a criminal state backed by the mafia don that is us

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Human history is, unfortunately, rife with war and killing. No group of people is exempt except for maybe the pygmies.

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

don't you sleep?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

There's work to be done, flip.

BW is to be applauded for dedication.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

I got a full 7 hours, lol.

[-] 0 points by JackTG (-194) 8 years ago

Some pygmy tribes around the world are cannibals.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Okay, okay, Thrasy. I was just trying to make a point. Many times pygmies have been the victims of cannibalism, but whatever.

[-] 0 points by JackTG (-194) 8 years ago

That's unfortunately also true. Pygmies around the world, and especially those in Africa are often preyed upon.

Nonetheless, I think all societies dirtied their hands with blood at one time or another.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago


[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

According to your history studies, how many Hindus were killed by Muslims in India.
I am quoting what I believe to be history.
Do you have ANY contradictory sources?

Will and Ariel Durant were awarded the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction in 1968 and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977.

William James Durant (November 5, 1885 – November 7, 1981) was a prolific American writer, historian, and philosopher. He is best known for The Story of Civilization, 11 volumes written in collaboration with his wife Ariel Durant and published between 1935 and 1975. He was earlier noted for The Story of Philosophy, written in 1926, which one observer described as "a groundbreaking work that helped to popularize philosophy."[1]

He conceived of philosophy as total perspective, or, seeing things "sub specie totius," a phrase inspired by Spinoza's "sub specie aeternitatis."[2] He sought to unify and humanize the great body of historical knowledge, which had grown too voluminous and become fragmented into esoteric specialties, and to vitalize it for contemporary application.[3] Durant was a gifted prose stylist and storyteller who won a large readership in great part because of the nature and excellence of his writing, which, in contrast to formal academic language, is lively, witty, charismatic, colourful, ornate, epigrammatic, in short, "humanized." Max Schuster, co-founder of the publisher Simon & Schuster (which also published Durant's works), and himself an admirer of Durant's writings for their beauty, remarked that Durant's prose "begs to be read aloud."[4] John Little, who founded and heads the Will Durant foundation and has devoted much effort towards popularizing Durant's works in the 21st century, echoes Schuster's admiration for Durant's works in words which Durant himself sometimes used to describe a few of the finest works of Classical Antiquity: "prose so beautiful it rivals poetry."

Will and Ariel Durant were awarded the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction in 1968 and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

You have problems, you really do. I'm not going to waste my breath.


[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

these numbers seem fairly accurate - can you also give me an accounting of the dead from the enlightened western powers? how about starting with the united states say 1776 to 2012 - then britian and france (start here with the war of the roses)- i would save spain and belgium for last - not need to do the german thing. we all know those numbers - thanks

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

I put this out to refute the anti-Israel claptrap
let me state catgorically - all Muslims are NOT terrorists

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

how about a body count for the israelis - please include lebanon - how many times did they beat the shit out of that poor country? i would still like to see the numbers for the western powers since you seem to be good at it.

[-] -2 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

specifically - the same source reports 35,000 Arabs / Muslims were killed by Israel's forces during the same period 11,000,000 Arabs / Muslims were killed by Arabs / Muslims
I do not applaud either - I just report numbers
and I may be wrong
I would consider any other source that refutes these numbers

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

well we agree that "the zionist controlled media" is nonsense but your numbers are very shady - take iraq - without our invasion none of this really happens. as to turkey killing the kurds - who armed them? these are the numbers of an ideologue who turns a blind eye to the cause of the killing. and is that your defense of a criminal israeli state (nuclear armed at that) - that the muslims kill more of their own than the israelis do?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

I am not defending - again - I am stating numbers - do you have any evidence that ANY of those numbers are wrong ? I'm not ready to post a history lesson - just give me your numbers.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 8 years ago

here are some numbers of christians killing christians but what does it matter. would the iraqis be killing each other if we hadn't invaded. and what does it matter anyway - how about taking responsibility for the deaths from your tax dollars - from your government and it's lackies. stop that killing then you might turn to the killing of other criminal states! - "The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was over 37 million. There were over 16 million deaths and 20 million wounded ranking it among the deadliest conflicts in human history.

The total number of deaths includes about 10 million military personnel and about 7 million civilians. The Entente Powers (also known as the Allies) lost about 6 million soldiers while the Central Powers lost about 4 million. At least 2 million died from diseases and 6 million went missing, presumed dead.

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

cause of killing? I cant write a history lesson here
I am not defending any killing
our invasion of Iraq was criminal
but how many Muslims did saddam murder before we invaded ?
again- are any of my numbers wrong?

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 8 years ago

Yeah, I don't buy into lumping people into the same group. Not all muslims are violent extremists...and it's pure fear mongering to suggest that. Many of the ones we consider violent extremists have, in their view, very good reasons to fight the cause they're fighting. You look at Hamas and Hezbollah...Al-qaeda.....all of these sprung up from the occupation of their lands, in some instances their considered holy lands, by a foreign country. The 2 minute imagine video sums this up pretty well:


One could make similar arguments for christians that you're making for muslims:


But that doesn't mean i think christians are extremists looking to kill muslims at every chance they get....or that they're all violent at heart...that would be pure BS.

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

I don't claim all Muslims are extremist.
I claim more Muslims are killed by Muslims than by any other group
The numbers prove Israel is not a Muslim's most dangerous enemy

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Re. your "Israel is not a Muslim's most dangerous enemy" - WTF are you on about ?!!! Should your oft repeated 'copy-pasted' ; unaccredited ; Self-Referential ; Bigoted ; Islamophobic, Hate-Mongering on this forum, go on unchallenged ?!! Who or what do you represent here ?! Does 'ben' know what you're up to ?

ad iudicium ...

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

no hate - just facts & numbers
Will and Ariel Durant were awarded the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction in 1968 and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977

In stead of attacking me, show me evidence that any of those numbers is wrong.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Yes, you 'hate' ; Yes, you use dubious, self-selected "facts" & WTF d'you know about "numbers" ?!!!

Maybe I could claim that Christian, Buddhist, Toaist, Hindu, Confucian, Shamanist, Shinto, Animist or Atheist 'believers' have killed more of "their own' and others but what would that show ?! Further, if I were to keep repeating my 'Subjective opinion as Objective fact' - what'd that then make me ?!! I would be a - 'narrow-minded, hatemongering, 'dubious agenda', Bigot - I'd suggest !!! Have I 'shown you' enough yet ?

There is a push for conflict on all sides but good people resist everywhere. An important & relevant link :

"Inside the Bizarre Cabal of Secretive Donors, Demagogic Bloggers, Pseudo-Scholars, European Neo-Fascists, Violent Israeli Settlers, and Republican Presidential Hopefuls Behind the Crusade".

temet nosce ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

The Durant's did not win the Pulitzer Prize in history, nor are they respected by historians today.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Some words from Eric Hobsbawm [RIP] - a renowned historian, who the world has heard of :

  • "The destruction of the past, or rather the of the social mechanisms that link one's contemporary experience to that of earlier generations, is one of the more characteristic and eerie phenomena of the late 20th century. Most young men and women at the century's end grow up in a sort of 'permanent present' lacking any organic relation to the public past of the times they live in. This makes historians - whose business is to remember what others forgot - more essential at the end of the second millennium than ever before. But for that very reason they must be more than simply chroniclers, remembrancers and compilers, though this is also the historians' necessary function. In 1989 all governments and especially all foreign ministers in the world would have benefited from a seminar on the peace settlements after the two world wars, which most of them had apparently forgotten."

From : "The Age of Extremes" (1994) Published in The US, with the subtitle - "A History of the World, 1914–1991" - (ISBN : 978-0-679-73005-7) & re. Eric Hobsbawm, something of possible interest to you :

fiat lux ...

[-] -3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 8 years ago

He never said they earned the Pulitzer Prize in History. And on what are you basing your declaration that they are not respected historians today?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

I know a few historians of world history.

[+] -4 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 8 years ago

Do you know ALL the historians of world history?

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Yes, Betsy, I know them all. That's what I said isn't it?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

my own brother had never heard "I'm just a girl"

[-] -3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 8 years ago

Just trying to figure out what the purpose of your statement was...if any.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

The purpose of my statement is maybe too complex for you. It matters very much where you get your history from, and if it is cherry picked, that matters too.


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

"Anti-religious" is probably fair, tho' in truth 'very suspicious of Organised, Paternalistic and Dogmatic Monotheism' would be more accurate But Please don't confuse that with being ignorant about matters pertaining to 'The Spirit' and I subscribe to 'Buddhistic Metaphysics', 'Zen', 'Dao' & 'Tantra'. I really did not consciously omit atrocities "perpetrated" by Jews but 'The Nakba' :

... was all I could think of and as the hard hitting forum posted video in effect referenced the fallout of that, so I didn't repeat it. Of course you are perfectly free to suspect as you wish about my "own bias" but politically I would describe myself as Secular, Humanist, Libertarian-Socialist and please do see that I am also given to metaphysical speculation. I would also refer you to my answer to 'bensdad' immediately below as well as the following appended thread, in order to see what my views are :

Never lose sight of your 'Zen' dog ~*~ so 'peace be with you' bro' and ..

shalom aleichem ; salam alaikum ; pax vobiscum ; ommm shaanti ...

[-] -2 points by bensdad (8977) 8 years ago

Iran-Iraq war 1980-1988
my source 1,000,000
your source 500,000-2,000,000

Kurds murdered in Iraq Iran Turkey 1986-1989 my source 300,000
Kurds murdered in Iraq only 1986-1989
your source 50,000-200,000

thanks for the confirmation - does that make you a bigot ?

and again - I'm not anti-Muslim
I am anti-the original propaganda post

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

You utterly miss the point I make because you are singularly obsessed with your 'faux argument' and all you are doing here (as elsewhere on this matter) is proving my point, so "thanks for the confirmation", though in truth - I'd rather I was wrong !

You have been given a link with an extensive list which shows that no single group of people has the monopoly on genocidal violence or belligerence YET all you can do is try to cherry pick the items which you imagine back up your spurious points that you alone imagine that you are making - that somehow Muslims are uniquely guilty of something. You have totally failed to see or understand my point - which will be quite obvious to other readers !!

Going back to edit or remove comments will not serve your cause either and you are a self-exposed 'Islamophobe', imo. I have Atheist ; Agnostic, Christian, Jewish and (shock horror) Muslim people that I am related to by blood and marriage. I myself am not enamoured by any Paternalistic, Monotheistic, Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumbo as I regard Judaism as a cult with many sects ; Christianity as a cult with many sects and Islam as a cult with many sects. I do not ascribe to only religion either 'uniquely good or uniquely bad' features. Religion is dogma but people are people and "spiritual supremacism' is no different to racial supremacism" imo !!!

Thank G*d for Atheism lol and in truth, 'til we breathe our last breath (when it's either 'lights out forever' or 'energy changing into a new form') - Agnosticism is probably the natural point of view. I shall leave you to reflect on what I have said & to note the querulous company you're in as per BetsyR's comment not far away on this thread & just above !!!!

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Sad, isn't it, ignorance?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Alas, "sad" and rather dangerous !!! So much human suffering is down to "ignorance" and hate and hubris !! Mercis pour votre lumiere !

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23331) 8 years ago

Okay, just so we set the record straight. Death toll by war and anthropogenic disaster through human history (a partial list):

WWII 40,000,000 - 72,000,000

Mongol Conquests 30,000,000 - 60,000,000

China transition to Ming Dynasty 30,000,000

Taiping Rebellion (China) 25,000,000 - 100,000,000

WWI 15,000,000 - 65,000,000

Conquests of Timur 15,000,000 - 20,000,000

An Lushan Rebellion 13,000,000 - 36,000,000

Dugan Revolt 8,000,000 - 12,000,000

Russian Civil War 5,000,000 - 9,000,000

Napoleanic Wars 3,500,000 - 7,000,000

Thirty Years War (Holy Roman Empire) 3,000,000 - 11,500,000

Not to mention how many Africans died during the slave trade. "The death toll from four centuries of the Atlantic slave trade is estimated at 10 million."

And, let us not forget the native Americans whose population was estimated to be around 50 million in the pre-Columbian era.