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Forum Post: Direct Democracy - Can we agree on this??

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 27, 2011, 5:27 p.m. EST by rbe (687)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

http://directdemocracynow.org/

"If we can bank online, we can vote online."

Is this a good issue for everyone to unite behind? Seems to be a good way to eliminate a lot of corruption.

28 Comments

28 Comments


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[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 2 years ago

The only problem with it is that hackers hack into the pentagon because it is a challenge. The same would go for online voting. And if people can do it for fun, then people who seriously want to mess with the system could get in as well.

[-] 1 points by metapolitik (1110) 2 years ago

Agreed.

Direct Digital Democracy (D3GA) is the only way to go.

More thoughts on this here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/

...And here:

http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

Occupy isn't going to unite behind anything, it looks like. Our local camp could agree on things, but Occupy is now just protesting for protest's sake.

[-] 0 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

Yeah, but on the bright side, at least there is a movement, even if it's a bit of a cluster fuck. As our economy gets worse, the movement will be forced to head in a certain direction I believe.

[-] 1 points by michael4ows (224) from Mountain View, CA 2 years ago

I live in california, we get a fair number of "ballot measures" thrown at us. But before the vote comes, we get a lot of ads in support and in opposition thrown at us. Needless to say, the ads are not designed to be informative, deceptive and misleading would be more descriptive. Generally the result is the side that runs a more effective ad campaign wins, and often that's a function of money. The point is, "direct democracy" would not achieve the result you're really looking for.

Direct Democracy - Can we agree on this??

Not me. I want my elected representatives to do their job... to represent their actual citizen's interest on the numerous complex issues that come before them.

[-] 1 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

What if ads were not allowed at all? I think it's impossible for elected officials to ever do their jobs, our system allows for too much corruption, and the only way to end corruption is to eliminate the monetary system, which I think will happen, but not in under a decade or even quite possibly a few decades.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Support Revolution 2.0 - Their idea restructures the government to where the people oversee the actions of the government – even overturn governments’ decisions when the majority deem it necessary – oversight is conducted through the V2 (internet version 2) http://www.osixs.org/V2_Menu_V2.aspx.

It’s called Direct Democracy.
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_intro.aspx

Overview: Welcome to the beginning of the second American Revolution. The purpose is to educate and to move the United States and the rest of the world forward. We all know that something is terribly wrong with our country but we don't have a clue what to do about it. But we do know we cannot continue to sit around and do nothing. We are so confused, we don't realize how dangerous it is to continue voting for democrats and republicans. We've become mentally crippled and dependent on two parties and our current form of government. They can't help you. The best people to help the people are the people. Until you figure that out, you will remain lost.

Welcome to the Revolution. Revolution 2.0 is a revolution in ideas and technology along with a vision to move this country forward. Read common sense 3.1 and the rest of the pages on the menu. This will give you a clear understanding of what the problems are, what we need to do about them and most important, how to proceed by taking real action. Our government didn't create itself and it can't fix itself. Problems never solve themselves…

Common sense 3.1 is a call to action to address the problems of the nation. http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

The second bill of rights are the baseline expectations and goals for Revolution 2.0 http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_billofrights.aspx

The Declaration of Dissolution and Termination (DDT) is a formal and legal declaration of grievances prepared by the people of the United States to be served to the government of the Untied States. The declaration is also a formal and legal order by the people to the government of the United States to cease and desist specific government operations in accordance with instructions laid down by the Execution of Dissolution and Termination. http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Intro_DT.aspx

The Execution of Dissolution and Termination (EDT) is the formal process and rules for dissolving parts or all of the old government and then terminating the old government after the new government has been fully implemented. http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Execution.aspx

What I do like about this movement, is that it gets the job done without violence. If violence breaks out; the government can and will impose martial law and the rest of your rights will be stripped from you. With your rights gone; your vote; your signature; and your opinion are irrelevant. With the frustration that is building in America; I can envision this possibility. Revolution 2.0 sidesteps this pitfall.

If you like what you see at this site; please vote here and let them know of your support: http://www.osixs.org/Vote.aspx

“The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history - whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by the small elite." - Thomas Jefferson

Cheers:)

[-] 2 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

Sounds like this is akin to the 99% Declaration so do you think they should unite? Could they come together at the National General Assembly? It's a chance to show all Americans that there are people out there with great solutions, when our leaders of today seem void.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

I absolutely do think they should unite! With the synergies the two groups have; it would be foolish for each to fight separate battles while striving for the same goals. There is strength in unity.

Since they are computer geeks and engineers, they've been working on a project called the V2 (a super secure internet version 2) that could be used to vote on and to allow the people to conduct oversight of the government in real time. This is a tool that we currently do not have. Read more here:

http://www.osixs.org/V2_Menu_V2.aspx

Would they need an invitation to the National General Assembly? Is there a hard date and location? Would they be able to address the whole assembly? I would be glad to ask them, but the request would be more credible if it came from the OWS leadership. I'm sorry but I haven't heard much about the NGA.

[-] 2 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

Philadelphia July 4th 2012. I'm just a supporter of the working group, but I see the potential for this gathering to attract everyone who has brilliant ideas for solving the problems we collectively face. The go-to guy for you is Michael Pollok, i'm sure he'd have some better info for your group. Hope to see you there!!

Michael Pollok: http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-99-declaration-goes-to-philadelphia-to-plan-fo/

99% Declaration / NGA: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

I contacted Mr Pollok and submitted the idea to him. Thanx much for the info and links!! :) ...................... see ya in July!

[-] 1 points by metapolitik (1110) 2 years ago

The fact that this website is built on ASP.NET / IIs (Microsoft) technology is a bad sign.

I agree with Douglas Rushkoff: We need Open Source Democracy, just like we need Open Source Software.

Not all this proprietary, metered, for-profit crap passing itself off as freedom.

More thoughts on this here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/

...And here:

http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse

[-] 1 points by BlogMakeover (29) 2 years ago

This whole entire monetary system has us buying into this con-game as if this is the only options for us. Fuck the monetary system and every limited thought that comes with it! I can't believe we as species can't evolve out of such nonsense. How Does Democracy Work in a Resource Based World Economy? http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/11/how-does-democracy-work-in-resource.html

[-] 2 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

I agree. I'm for a resource based economy hence my name.

[-] 0 points by PeoplehaveDNA (305) 2 years ago

You can not have real direct democracy without an educated population who actually thinks and questions things. When we have such a large amount of unthinkers in America it hinders progress in a Direct Democracy. So if you want a Direct Democracy in America your job is to educate the large ignorant population.

[-] 1 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

I've thought about that too. It does seem like more and more people are waking up due to the internet. Maybe a lot of the non-thinkers wouldn't even think to vote if we can avoid BS ads for the elections.

[-] 0 points by Daennera (765) from Griffith, IN 2 years ago

California does this, and look at the mess they're in. People only voting for their own self interests, and nothing can actually get done there.

[-] 0 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 2 years ago

I personally would not want to vote on every single thing has to pass through congress. I just don't have the time. However, We should be able, as a country, if we come together on an urgent issue, have the power to draw up a referendum, and through the internet, put it to a vote and essentially bypass the system. There is no reason we should wait for politicians to enact campaign finance reform, for example, because they simply will not do it.

[-] 2 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

Maybe there could be one day per week assigned to voting, say Friday. Everybody would have Fridays off. Cutting the work week might help with the unemployment problem as well.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

sure - I can bank on line - am I qualified to decide on which bridge to fix first? or how do divide public safety funds between police and fire? or how to enact food safety rules?
Why is it so hard to see that capitalism and representative democracy can co-exist
if and only if the financial connection between the two is broken.

Why is it so hard to see that getting rid of Citizens United, eliminating corporate personhood, and campaign finance reform would (given time ) fix virtually all of our society's ills by bringing back
government of the people, by the people and for the people ?

sure - unite behind a plan that will never happen - direct democracy - make being bad illegal - outlaw meat - divert those damn OWS punks from acting on change that is POSSIBLE.

[-] 2 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

I've met people from all over the country on both sides of the aisle that believe we should vote online for issues.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

I've met people from all over the country on both sides of the aisle that believe we should all have $1,000,000

The majority of voters elected and REELECTED crook dicky
The majority of voters elected and REELECTED senile ronnie
The majority of voters elected and REELECTED awol georgie

That does not mean its a good idea

[-] 2 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

I believe we should eliminate the monetary system and all have abundance!

So, if this is a democracy the people should get what they want. I don't like any of the politicians you named, but if the majority wanted them, so be it. If we voted on individual issues, a lot of the bad ideas they had wouldn't have happened anyway.

[-] 1 points by rbe (687) 2 years ago

I agree 100%, hence my name, but people are slow to wake up to what jacque fresco has to say. Seems like unfortunately we may have to make changes incrementally, in baby steps.

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 2 years ago

I see this one somewhere in the center. I say keep representatives to do the homework and coordinate information on the issues to present to the people (as in the bridge fixing case). Then, have the voters directly vote with the information provided.

[-] 1 points by Edgewaters (912) 2 years ago

sure - unite behind a plan that will never happen - direct democracy - make being bad illegal - outlaw meat - divert those damn OWS punks from acting on change that is POSSIBLE.

Hear, hear. Well said.

[-] -1 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

I disagree that it will cut down on corruption. It is way to easy to hack a computer network to trust that no one would do it to voting. Sounds good in principle but just not realistic.