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Forum Post: Desecrating the Flag

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 23, 2011, 7:26 p.m. EST by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I saw a picture of a protester standing on an American Flag. I have also seen many images of people holding the Flag upside down. While I respect the right to protest, I found that image so terrible that it bordered on treason.

You are lucky that you are protesting without being gassed or worse, and remember that next time you decide to desecrate the Flag.

ANKARA, Turkey — Tens of thousands of people spent a second night under canvas, in cars or huddled round small fires in towns rattled by aftershocks from a massive earthquake in eastern Turkey that killed hundreds.

this is an instance of distress when I would think it is acceptable for the flag to be hung upside down, saying you are in distress because you cant afford the kindle fire is a joke

283 Comments

283 Comments


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[-] 5 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Excuse me? You do know they have the RIGHT to do desecrate the Flag if they so choose, don't you? It's called freedom of speech. It's not treason in the U.S. We don't shoot people who disagree with us either!

[-] 3 points by booshington (397) 2 years ago

I don't want to live in a world where I'm "lucky to not get gassed" when stating my opinion.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

JonFromSLC (West Valley City, UT) 0 points 1 day ago Until there is no power, no food, no water, no sanitation, no Jersey Shore, no X-factor, and no football... we aren't in distress.

VivaLaRev 1 points 12 hours ago I believe in your freedom of speech and I don't believe the government has any right to infringe upon that, even while desecrating the American flag. However, I find it to be the most disrespectful act imaginable short of physical assault on our veterans and those who have died protecting your right to it. Flag desecration is one of the single most cowardly acts protesters can do. You have a right to do so, but your fellow Americans should be stomping your guts out for doing it.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

All of this Flag desecration stuff is nonsense. What I find that desecrates everything that America is about is its citizens being so lazy they don't know how the government works, rant about bills they have never read, give tacit approval to whatever their party says, not demanding that our elected officials work TOGETHER for the good of this nation and while 14 MILLION of its citizens are unemployed rant about desecration of a flag! The apathy in this country is the most insidious, dangerous and demoralizing desecration that exists!

All of you ranting about some kids desecrating the flag have you read the new jobs bill? Do you work at the polls or drive people to the polls? Do listen to all sides of an issue so you can have an informed opinion or do you assume that your party will tell you what to think? What do you do to help this country or than sit on your butt and rant?

You are like someone ranting that there was a spider in their house while a tornado demolishes the house!

[-] 1 points by arcodorko (49) 2 years ago

And the poster has a RIGHT to say he or she thinks it's terrible...so I don't understand the "Excuse me?"

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Sorry I was just shocked by your silliness.

[-] 2 points by arcodorko (49) 2 years ago

Wasn't my post...

[-] 2 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

My apologies!

[-] 1 points by proudamerican (2) 2 years ago

And they have been given that right by better men than they could ever hope to be. Men who have fought and died for the very flag they so willingly disrespect.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Tell that to the men and women who wear garments made our of cloth with flags on it! Tell that to the people who leave cloth flags out in the rain! Tell that to the people who leave flags out at night without a light on it! Tell that to the people who leave a tattered flag up!

You want to attack the OWS people so this is what you fixated on. The problem is the flag is desecrated every single day in this country by people are too lazy to find out the proper way to display a flag.

BTW - We wouldn't have nearly as many dead if people stood up to our government and said NO to a needless war. A dirty little secret that few realize is currently over HALF of the soldiers brought back in body bags are in they because of suicide!

[-] 1 points by proudamerican (2) 2 years ago

First off, you are correct in saying that to everyone knows how to correctly display the flag. However there is a huge difference between someone leaving their flag out at night without a light on it and some pissed of kids walking on it and hanging it upside down. And on your statistic that 1/2 of deceased soldiers brought back from overseas committed suicide, that is nonsense. Do not speak of things you know nothing about.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

*And on your statistic that 1/2 of deceased soldiers brought back from overseas committed suicide, that is nonsense. *

I wish it were:

http://www.good.is/post/more-us-soldiers-killed-themselves-than-died-in-combat-in-2010/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/30/marine-corps-steps-suicide-prevention-efforts-halt-deadly-trend/ - the Army National Guard, where the incidence of suicide nearly doubled from 2009 to 2010

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/23/us-suicide-military-usa-idUSTRE68M5G720100923 - 1,100 servicemen and women committed suicide in 2005 to 2009 -- one suicide every day and a half. The Army's suicide rate doubled in that time.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/30/marine-corps-steps-suicide-prevention-efforts-halt-deadly-trend/#ixzz1bp8XMDtV

http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2011/05/14/army-suicide-rate-likely-to-remain-high/

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/03/31/u-s-military-steps-up-suicide-prevention-programs/

You can rant about the flag but don't take the time to actually find out about our troops.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Yes one is displaying their ignorance and one their rights.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Is a red, white, and blue harley tank, though, truly a flag? Or a mere representation? The same is true of hats or clothing unless one actually desecrates a flag to create them.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

It's a representation of the flag. But you might want to read this:

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

I did the military thing and I've already read it. I'm just a little less emotional about it in light of my desire for free expression which I feel should be permitted to celebrate America in red, white, and blue. I fly all three flags.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Thank you for your service to my country. I appreciate it very much.

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

If this is the best comment we have, then the movement is doomed to alienate a lot of people. If we do not heed what divisiveness can do, we will continue to alienate people onother matters. Maybe we are the 60% or the 40%...

You may be right, but that is not the point. Wisdom is knowing what you can do but knowing when to refrain from doing it.

[-] 1 points by cvasq (12) 2 years ago

this movement already has been alienating people you guys are talking about starting a revolution, a real one, that says to people a lot more than peaceful, that says threatening and aggressive

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

I don't control everyone. I know the adults inthe room won't do that.

[-] 1 points by cvasq (12) 2 years ago

a mob can quickly become an angry mob and you guys are pumping both, anger and you are a mob down there.... mark my words, it will only stand so long before some idiot down there starts a riot

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

Like the guy impersonating Koch told Governor Walker of Wisconsin...send in some goons to shake it up and discredit the movement, and like the Governor said, "We already thought of that..."

The people down there are peaceful. The people in the hinterlands are raging. Wait until they have something to vote on...watch the pent up rage spill out.

BUt in truth, don't you watch the news? check out the live feeds. Pepper spray, punches in the face, clubbings, if there was going to be a riot it would already have been. No, only outsiders would do that.

[-] 1 points by cvasq (12) 2 years ago

i do with the new and every time i see the cops act you guys were pushing into there line what did you think was going to happen

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Bravo. Just because we have the "right" to do it, doesn't mean its right or good. So inappropriate, divisive, disrespectful and sad.

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

Thank you April. Please help spread the word. Some are well-meaning in their comments and some are just trying to make us look bad.

[-] -1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

That flag is a symbol of their freedom of speech.

[-] 3 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

AND a symbol of their dysfunctional government. You want to talk about treason? Halliburton (sp?) received billions in government contracts to do various things in Iraq without there being any other bids taken. It overcharged the U.S. $27.4 million! VP Cheney retired from Halliburton in 2000 with a $36 million severance package!

[-] 2 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

It is a stupid thing to do because it is divisive. How can alienating people be good for building our cause?

It is worthless. It says nothing specific, nor valuable, but instead says that we somehow disrespect the country we are fighting to change.

I think we disrespect the politicians and the greedy banks, not America. America is the 99% plus the 1%.

"Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!"

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

It got your attention and here you are.

[-] 1 points by nipplering (41) 2 years ago

are you always this much of a mental midget

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

No. They're angry. And understandably so. Their "American Flag" has failed them. And it's failing you. Aside from that, because one person does something doesn't mean that everyone in the movement believes in the action. Just like, I'm sure, that you don't believe that everyone in the Tea Party believes that Obama is like Hitler or wants to enslave white people--as close to treason as you can get, really--even though those pictures were hoisted during the TP rallies, right? I mean, you went to the TP websites and complained loudly about that, right? Right...

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

No I didn't. But I made up my mind to stand against the Tea party, partly because of that behavior and partly becasue of the poisonus things that it's leaders were saying in the media.

Please understand that I'm speaking up because I believe what I am saying here and now is in the best interest of the continued success of OWS.

I just believe that this kind of protest is not wise for a movement that needs to attract active support from so many. We are not the 99% if we don't have their support so divisive behavior on our parts is precisely what the opposition wants. They will say the few are the many...watch Fox news for all the isolated incidents to be amplified to be the majority behavior.

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

Okay, point taken. But you can't control everyone--and #OWS wouldn't if it could. The media loves to extrapolate broader intentions based on isolated incidents, and yes, it's probably not the best PR tactic if we're trying to pull in more people. OTOH, those who watch Fox, in general, probably won't be coming to this particular party, I'm guessing...

[-] 1 points by Kulafarmer2 (118) 2 years ago

Hit the nail square on the head you did, by showing disrespect for the flag they show disrespect to all the patriotic men and women they may need the support of at some point, i doubt they will get it because a true patriot stands up for their country and will stand up for the constitution and the liberties it affords us all.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

What are you talking about? What do you think the people in the park are doing? They are standing up for this county and her people! Try this: "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

[-] 1 points by nipplering (41) 2 years ago

get a clue you loser

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Very nice! This is what we need clear reasons supporting why we are protesting and how we are going about it. If know-one speaks out it can than be said that there is no problem because there is no complaint.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Those words are straight from the Declaration of Independence!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And very good words they are.

We all need to be reminded from time to time that this country was founded by revolutionaries for the good of all that live here. To escape impartial and indifferent tyranny. Not just at that time but for ALL Time.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

There is a line in the movie "National Treasure" that goes something like, "If the revolutionaries had failed instead of being called national heroes they would have been hanged and called traitors." It's all about perspective.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes. There is absolute truth in that the winners write the history, saying who was good or bad from their perspective. So lets go ahead and win for America and the American dream. So that every man woman and child can live peacefully prosperously and healthy.

[-] 0 points by Cancelcurrency (72) from Anchorage, AK 2 years ago

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world..."

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Excellent

[-] 0 points by YuckFouHippies (189) 2 years ago

Bottom line: carry your signs and symbols of corporate greed. Peacefully protest if you want. Standing under that flag flying affords you those luxuries. Desecrate, or disrespect that flag though, and we have a problem. The flag represents everything awesome about this country, and good men and women have, and continue to die for it. With a name like Shalimar, it may not mean the same to you as it does to MOST of us. But tread lightly on this subject, and damn sure you don't tread on my flag.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Get over yourself! I have seen hats, blankets, shirts even men's under shorts make out of material representing the U.S. flag! Men and women have been dying since before this country was founded for freedom of speech! If it will get my point across I will gladly walk on the flag. With a name like "YuckFouHippies" I wouldn't through stones if I were you.

[-] 0 points by YuckFouHippies (189) 2 years ago

You see things like that because the flag is cool. Vets would rather wear that than Abercrombie. It's bigger than a brand name, and it will NEVER go out of style. And to those that died fighting for freedom prior to this country being founded: I salute you all, and would never disrespect your flag. And Apu, if you would walk on that flag, perhaps it's time for you to go back to Pakistan or India. Good luck with your protests there.....

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

LOL! Don't be silly. I am an Indiana native who had never been to India or Pakistan.

[-] 0 points by YuckFouHippies (189) 2 years ago

I told you to protest, it is your right. Just not on our flag. For some reason your other post is closed to replies. As for the elite, the vast majority of the richest folks here are self made. Gates knew nothing about wealth management before he became wealthy. He started a company on the cheap that disrupted the status quo. As did Ellison, Jobs, Buffet, Zuckerberg, Walton, hell almost all of them.

I heard the same argument that people don't have the know how before. How do you explain this? Like there's a secret vault of knowledge reserved for only the children of the illuminati? Can people not read books? Surf the Internet for other than porn? Those companies are great because they give people a place to work. There's no constitutional right to a paycheck simply for being bitter. The fact that a few hard working and smart people got rich off of properly managing is no reason to hate them. It's reason to emulate and disrupt. Innovators do run out of innovations and that's when the next class gets their shot at it. And btw, with exception of Buffet all of those guys are dropouts. So don't attribute to Ivy league education. Google Sean Parker for another example.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

"Gates knew nothing about wealth management before he became wealthy." Bill Gates mother was on the board of directors of First Interstate BancSystem and his grandfather was a bank president. His father an attorney and he went to an exclusive preparatory school when he was 13. High SAT scores and went to Harvard.

Warren Buffett is the son of former U.S. Representative Howard Buffett. He did both under grad and grad work and attended Columbia.

Mark Zuckerberg is yet another Harvard man.

As for secret societies too bad you can't ask Sam Walton as he was tapped by QEBH while attending University of Missouri.

Jobs and Parker had a special talent that few people have.

These aren't you average everyday people. Not that there aren't stories of true rags to riches. But they are few and far between.

Why on earth would you assume that I hate wealthy people? Two of my closest friends are millionaires and is most of my husband's family. It's not people with money I have a problem with; it is companies who run roughshod over people.

[-] 0 points by YuckFouHippies (189) 2 years ago

Then STFU, because you don't know just how good you have it. Go see how other countries work before you stand on the flag in a great one. You've probably never left Indiana. Ask any immigrant driving a cab in NYC what the best country is, and without hesitation, no matter how bad their life is here, they are always ecstatic to talk about how great the US is. Or go to A third world country where women will throw themselves at you for a chance to even visit the states. When you've seen Mexico, or any part of Asia you will see why people are DYING to cross our borders. No matter how rich and powerful the 1% get, in this country anyone can still work hard and join the elite.

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Done all of that except the NYC cabbie, but I have asked other immigrants though.

"...in this country anyone can still work hard and join the elite." I know you probably have heard that over and over, but it is a lie. Anyone can't become that 1% just by hard work and if you think you can you are kidding yourself. There are millions of people in this country that simply do not have the know how to accomplish it. But that is a side point.

What makes this country great isn't the flag. It is the people. Those companies thrive because "we the people" go to work, buy their products.

And how dare you tell any American not to stand up for what they believe! That's my RIGHT!

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

No. They're angry. And understandably so. Their "American Flag" has failed them. And it's failing you. Aside from that, because one person does something doesn't mean that everyone in the movement believes in the action. Just like, I'm sure, that you don't believe that everyone in the Tea Party believes that Obama is like Hitler or wants to enslave white people--as close to treason as you can get, really--even though those pictures were hoisted during the TP rallies, right? I mean, you went to the TP websites and complained loudly about that, right? Right...

[-] 0 points by Assbagger (11) 2 years ago

Don't forget Solandra! Obama $500,000,000 fuck up, to name one.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Somehow with that statement of yours I can fully understand and agree with your choice of nickname to represent yourself with. How was Solandra's failure Obama's fault? He didn't process the approval to fund.

[-] 1 points by Assbagger (11) 2 years ago

DoingKinkyAssToday. I hope you like sand, because your head is buried in it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Get a clue. Maybe you can develop a life.

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

Wow. Talk about a truly apt avatar. Here's something: Strategic Defense Initiative. Tens of billions were wasted on that project, and there were no protestations from the right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

Government procurement people screwed up their due diligence on Solyndra, but "Star Wars" was a planned action that was never deployed, and cost the country many many more times than the Solyndra screw up.

Address that, please? No. Yeah....

[-] 1 points by Assbagger (11) 2 years ago

And the biggest screw you and me of all.......Barney Frank. He should be in jail for the Fannie and Freddie scandal.

[-] 1 points by libertarianincle (312) from Cleveland, OH 2 years ago

So Solyndra is OK because Star Wars cost more? This is why we get no where in this country. You conservatives and progressives spend so much time arguing who is right, you fail to see how alike you both are.

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

No. Both not okay. But government screws up all the time. This was a big screw up. One of the biggest screwups? Oh, wait, I know this one: Oh, yeah, now I remember:

The $1 - 4 trillion Iraq war that the Bush administration said would cost a few billion initially. Yeah, now, that's what I call a screw up.

Both parties have made huge mistakes--but don't cherry pick...

[-] 1 points by libertarianincle (312) from Cleveland, OH 2 years ago

Isn't that EXACTLY what you are doing?

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

No, I'm not excusing Solyndra, but it's a drop in the bucket, relatively speaking. And Fox loves to mention it repeatedly, without actually mentioning how it's a problem across all government. Bad contracting processes for Solyndra doesn't come close to what happened under the previous administration. I do agree that government is incompetent, but so are corporations. Why? Both are comprised of people.

And both are not very transparent.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And no one is ever held accountable and no changes are ever-made to stop or punish abuse. A couple of sacrificial scapegoats here and there offered up to assuage the public anger and outrage, but no real (actual ) clean-up.

Like everything in life - things change. You can count on that fact if on nothing else that there will always be change. Good, Bad, or Indifferent, there will always be change.

What we need to address is not that we go forward but how we go forward, that whats broke needs to be fixed. Nothing in this world is static and that's why it requires all of us to take part in forwarding any and all positive methods for reform, repair, growth, and control. For the 100% not just the 99% or 90 or 50 or which ever percentage you feel that you fall in is truth.

What is currently broken is justice for all and the fact that our representatives like to give us lip service and then do their own thing.

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

I only hope you expressed as much anger when the Tea Party people hoisted pictures of the president as Hitler. i'm guessing no?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

i do not associate myself with any movement that gives the country a negative international image. while i CANT STAND OBAMA, i would respect him as my president, especially in format of the world

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 2 years ago

A big no no for Obama, but perfect when George W was President. I in no way endorse either representation. I may not agree with Obama, but I will always respect the figure who holds said office in this greatest nation on God's green earth.

[-] 4 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the upside down flag is a call of distress

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

JonFromSLC (West Valley City, UT) 0 points 1 day ago Until there is no power, no food, no water, no sanitation, no Jersey Shore, no X-factor, and no football... we aren't in distress.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I saw this before and remember

which indicates that it is well said

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

agreed

[-] 1 points by Chris87 (8) 2 years ago

Since were the worlds police, whos going to come to our aid?

[-] 0 points by Joyce (375) 2 years ago

Typical progressive response

[-] 2 points by freeflyer22 (49) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

typical labeling of anyone you would wish to ostracize for disagreeing with you viewpoint.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 2 years ago

No, just calling out those who hide in the shadows of the freedom under the auspice patriot. I spent part of my afternoon yesterday teaching my six year old the proper way to dispose of an American flag. We took two tattered flags to our local VFW.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

You have so much to offer, thank you for being here.

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 2 years ago

Joyce Kaufman? Is that you?

[-] 1 points by Chris87 (8) 2 years ago

Since were the worlds police, whos going to come to our aid?

[-] -1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

I'll concede they are in distress when the rubber bullets and tear gas comes out.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

All right, gibsone76m to the front lines. Preferably gagged.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

there aren't enough walk in healthcare clinics were a person can go to when needed

[-] -2 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Until there is no power, no food, no water, no sanitation, no Jersey Shore, no X-factor, and no football... we aren't in distress.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

THAT is what I am talking about. Well said.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Seriously? Where have you been? Or should I ask how comfortably well off are you (employment and financially ). Everyone out there please fly a flag upside down. We have people living in the streets and more joining them all the time. I don't think that they consider this a viable lifestyle choice. Fly the flag upside down - We need all of the visible reminders and messages to the rest of our population who don't have internet access. This is a time of crises and we need to band together to resolve it.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

JonFromSLC (West Valley City, UT) 0 points 1 day ago Until there is no power, no food, no water, no sanitation, no Jersey Shore, no X-factor, and no football... we aren't in distress.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Truly was not funny the 1st time. Sarcasm can be useful but can also be easily misunderstood, and if you don't follow-up with something useful, then what good is it other than for venting. If you just want to vent do it where it might ( might ) do some good.

Spread the word.

Contact the White house: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Contact the senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Contact Congress: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

Contact the house of representatives: http://www.house.gov/htbin/findrep?ZIP=55433

Contact the Supreme Court: http://www.supremecourt.gov/

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

I make 11 dollars an hour. I'm currently saving up for a car since I've been in 4 accidents involving illegal aliens who cant drive worth a shit. I live paycheck to paycheck, and I'm thinking about going to school to help brighten my future. I'm not rich, I'm not famous because I don't strive to be so. I'm not homeless and unemployed because I DON'T STRIVE TO BE SO. Is the economy fucked? yes it is. Is our government corrupt? yes it is. Do I think that it'll change because a bunch of hippies (what the media says) want to sleep in a park and mindlessly chant the same slogan yet have no substance when it comes to solidarity, vision, or a common goal? no I dont. You guys have no real leadership. You guys are letting yourselves get taken over by Communists/Socialists/Anarchists and everyone else AND YOU DONT EVEN NOTICE IT. Open your fucking eyes. Look at why the problem is a problem,and where it came from before you start throwing money at the symptoms.

You guys are bordering on falling apart because you don't have any substance holding you together.

We need to protest, but this ragged group of people with no ideas is not the way to go.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well so much for your heartfelt negativity. But if this group of social misfits ( your implication ) can't or are not advocating for change in the proper way ( also your thought ). What then would YOU suggest? Do you have anything constructive rather than disruptive?

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

The way this Govt is set up is so that the power is at the ballot box. Just like free speech goes both ways. You say one thing, that's your right. Someone says something to the contrary, that's their right.

It's your right to vote, and that's a powerful right. It's also your right to NOT vote. That too is a powerful right. If enough people stand up and say that the entire system is corrupt and that they're not going to support it by voting the same stunads in, something might change. When you vote you tell the Govt that you're still brainwashed, and they can go about business as usual.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

The vote a citizen casts has a shelf life of the human attention span.

A Lobbyist's lobby lasts as long as money.

[-] 1 points by Nulambda (265) 2 years ago

But we do vote. And they still go against what we vote for. Against the majority. Where dowe go when they no longer respect the will of the people?

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

EXACTLY! you vote, and nothing changes. they keep doing what they want. you'd think that if you wanted something to change, you'd have to change it yourself.

[-] 1 points by Nulambda (265) 2 years ago

So why not let the people be Congress. That way we all have direct excess to government, and I can represent myself in government? Wouldn't that be the best way to encourage people to do something?

And I believe I am trying to do something by putting these ideas out there. This forum is very similar to what a People's Congress could look like that, except we would have votes and things would be enacted, of course. :)

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

How do you propose you let people be Congress? It's a good idea, but how would you implement that?

[-] 1 points by Nulambda (265) 2 years ago

I think for legislative purposes using the existing Propisal method mostbcities, States, and Counties use wouldvwork. Then organizationsbdevoted to a piece of legislation would have to be active in the community to pursway the public to vote their way.

For purposes of taxes, I think when we file taxes we fiill out a form that allows us each individual to select wherevwevwant that money to go. Collectively, should glance out what the nation wants.

Frvappointments, like judges or heads of government agencies, we have thevsame vetting process we havebtoday, it is just the people vote on it, not congress.

Same thing with war. The people vote on it.

I really think Congress is wherevtevreal corruption lays. I mean, we have all seen theirvaporoval ratings. So let's bypass thevwhole thing, in my opinion.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28495) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Again you seem to be trying to say something but you stop short of saying anything and just seem to uselessly vent.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Everyone on this site is venting uselessly.

[-] 1 points by freeflyer22 (49) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

That is distress.

[-] 3 points by Quark (236) 2 years ago

Treason is lying to the American people every 4 years as BS presidents kill the world and family. They should be gassed for treason. Congress should be gassed for not making a healthcare system that works and for not protecting us from corporations. Your brain is in backwards.

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

Yes they should...and the fact that we are not represented is tyranny. But before we can get to a point where such things can no longer happen, we must enlist the passion of the 99%. We will not do that by being divisive.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

And yours is refreshing, keep it up!

[-] 3 points by bchang1987 (2) 2 years ago

I support it. The US is a disgusting Capitalist naiton and deserves desecration.

[-] 0 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

Then leave, you don't deserve to be here. Go check out some real poverty and I'm sure you'll come crawling back.

[-] 2 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 2 years ago

I saw people wearing cut up versions of the flag at Tea Party rallies. Talk about desecration. One even had their dog wearing an American flag hat. Talk about treasonous.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Dang straight! The worst hypocrite doesn't even know they are.

[-] 2 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 2 years ago

Burning the flag, yes, this is desecrating the flag.

Carrying the flag upside down - is a clear message that the nation is in distress.

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 2 years ago

I agree with you that stepping on it and ripping it up is desecration. It sends the wrong message to many people who would otherwise support OWS. It also confirms people's fears that OWS is influenced by statist, far left interests.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

people like me

[-] 1 points by mgiddin1 (1057) from Linthicum, MD 2 years ago

I agree. They should not be disrespectful of the flag - they will definitely lose the support of most Americans.

However I fully support flying Old Glory upside down - as a sign of national distress.

[-] 2 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

You saw a PICTURE of SOMEBODY walking on a flag on a hate blog. I saw that picture also. It was a Teabagger. Prove me wrong.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure he is getting at the same point as OWS

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

Using misspelled racial slurs and Hitler mustaches on all your signs isn't a "point". It's an unpatriotic disgrace that comes from the same web sites your trash came from.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

What are you typing about I haven't seen any 'Hitler mustaches'. Don't get me wrong, I just haven't seen them, I don't think...

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

You haven't seen Hitler mustaches at Tea Party events??

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

oh ya that. but not here. I got ya.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

listen, you asked for proof that an OWS'er stepped on an American flag (and that it wasn't a TP'er) so thats what I gave you. I never said I supported the tea party.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

It wasn't proof, either. Nothing traces the photo to OWS except a claim on a hate-spreading blog.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

what about the "end the fed" sign in the background? I think we both know it was from OWS

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

That's a joke, right??

Had you said, "Legalize Pot" that might mean it's more likely found at OWS.

But, "End the Fed" is the mantra of Ron Paul fanatics and appeared all over Tea Party events.. It appears less frequently at OWS. If anything, it makes it more likely to be a picture of a Teabagger.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

ok well i was trying to avoid playing the hippie card but here it goes...

what about the sitting on the flag?

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

"i am in no way against the sentiment of this protest, but I think the execution is atrocious, and the desecration of the flag was one example of why I have this feeling. Thats it. I am not a republican, I am not a tea party member."

The flag desecration was a Teabagger, remember?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

take your straw man arguments to another thread. it was both. both were wrong. i do not support either. you are wrong.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

"well, if you smoke cigarettes for your whole life"

Second hand smoke kills.. So do negative externalities. Reducing every consequence to the result of a lack of personal responsibility, when in fact they usually aren't, is exactly what corporations have spent endless money to brainwash you with. This only proves you have yet to take any actual personal responsibility to think for yourself.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

please, everyone in this protest is sucking in the iPods and the Starbucks.

Do no get me confused...i am in no way against the sentiment of this protest, but I think the execution is atrocious, and the desecration of the flag was one example of why I have this feeling. Thats it. I am not a republican, I am not a tea party member.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

"someone who smokes cigarettes for their whole life has to see it coming"

I didn't mention cigarettes. Obviously, you'd rather assume things than learn about them.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

you said "no one complains before they get cancer"

well, if you smoke cigarettes for your whole life (buy from wal mart, apple, microsoft, use google/facebook, eat at mcdonalds) you are going to get cancer(get burned by the corporations that you bloated)

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

"you are all just spoiled..."

I work over 60 hours a week.. Rich, but not spoiled.

"no one complained about the financial system when things were good"

No one complains before they get lung cancer either. Probably because they didn't know there was a problem.

"its just that we have never had a president that encouraged class warfare"

Reagan declared class warfare decades ago. Every president resumed. You didn't think it could last forever, did you?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

someone who smokes cigarettes for their whole life has to see it coming

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 2 years ago

I spent 30 seconds looking for that picture..

You said "sitting" so I typed "tea party american flag chair" into google images and that's what came up.

Now you're judging by intent, though??

There either exists guidelines regarding the flag or there doesn't.

Besides, the kids a Teabagger.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

you are all just spoiled...no one complained about the financial system when things were good, and things have been worse...its just that we have never had a president that encouraged class warfare

you encouraged it by blindly buying into the iPod generation BUYER BEWARE what did you think was going to happen

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Is wearing MC Hammer style flag pants a desecration? It's rotated by 90 degrees when I'm standing. And they have too many stripes.

It's not luck that no one is getting tear gassed. It's because it's the right of an American Citizen to protest as says the first amendment

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Well now, that gets us into the whole pants around the knees business! [sic] lol

[-] 2 points by bakerjohnj (121) 2 years ago

Fighting for the flag means fighting for the right to desecrate it. It's just a flag.

[-] 0 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

Its not just a flag, its a symbol. That is the most backwards thinking I have ever heard. That flag is the reason you can protest so don't forget it. Desecrate the flag and bring hypocrisy to your movement.

[-] 2 points by bakerjohnj (121) 2 years ago

When it is a symbol of the right to free speech then it is meaningful. To use it as a reason to deny speech is to deny the the very principle it symbolizes.

[-] 0 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

I think people have become so anti-American that they forget why they are able to hold protests like this. Its embarrassing.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

I have not typed with a single anti-American. I will paypal you a dollar right this very minute if you link to a post by an 'anti-American'. Waiting...

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

look about 15 lines down...

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

bchang1987 2 points 1 hour ago I support it. The US is a disgusting Capitalist naiton and deserves desecration.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

I respect that you responded and will follow though, but that person is 'disgusted' and working within the system to change his country for the better. Sounds awfully like a patriot to me! my email is occupywallst.ye6@gishpuppy.com, it's good for a week. I await the destination address.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

I don't want the dollar. The point I am trying to make with this thread is that I think the foundation of this country is is under attack. I think people are forgetting how good it is to be able to protest peacefully, and how great it is that common people can get this type of word out. That is why I am offended when people in OWS hold the flag upside down or step on it.

And for the record I honestly find it hard to believe that this person could be a patriot. The post make them sound more like a terrorist. "Deserves desecration?" seriously?

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

... I think the foundation of this country is is under attack. ...

The attack is over, we lost the bankers won. When the banker backed militia come out to shut us it will be more obvious. And way to late, for us.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

You mix desecration with destruction. Also, if more intellectually honest you would let that American have his angry moment as an American; that is, let him speak his peace. Celebrate that he CAN speak his mind. It's hypocritical to say he is un-American for acting American, right?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

I feel like I can appreciate that, but I get the feeling that the people doing this sometimes take it for granted.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

They, we, I do, it's the nature of the game :/

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

pathetic. George Washington shed blood. The flag fluttered in the wind. Let's pin a medal on the flag?

[-] 2 points by Steve15 (385) 2 years ago

Upside down flag means nation is in distress.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

JonFromSLC (West Valley City, UT) 0 points 1 day ago Until there is no power, no food, no water, no sanitation, no Jersey Shore, no X-factor, and no football... we aren't in distress. VivaLaRev 1 points 12 hours ago I believe in your freedom of speech and I don't believe the government has any right to infringe upon that, even while desecrating the American flag. However, I find it to be the most disrespectful act imaginable short of physical assault on our veterans and those who have died protecting your right to it. Flag desecration is one of the single most cowardly acts protesters can do. You have a right to do so, but your fellow Americans should be stomping your guts out for doing it.

[-] 1 points by Gregg85 (26) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

It appears that every post I have made on this subject is being taken out (I could be wrong). But that still doesn't mask the fact that desecrating the American flag and other similar actions is turning off the majority of the 99ers. If you (OWS) hung American flags around the encampment prominently and started to get everybody in Liberty Square to work as a team and concentrate on economic/financial and universal health care, then maybe the movement would show some real success and attract large numbers of 99ers.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

And our so called representatives have not committed treason. The flag upside down is a call for help moron

[-] 1 points by Gregg85 (26) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

One of the reasons 99 percenters are not rushing down to Liberty Square (and other such encampments throughout the nation) is because of American flag desecration and other signs that could be perceived as anti-American. Sure, you can say it is just a few individuals doing this on their own, but why aren't there American flags displayed throughout the encampment? That's certainly an OWS leadership issue. Doing so might make it more effective to attract the majority of the 99 percenters who have not become actively involved. The issues of economic/financial reform and universal health care are two issues that are effecting millions of Americans. You should have the area of Liberty Square teeming with people. You currently don't because a majority of the 99ers are turned off by the anti-American element there and the lack of focus on the core issues.

[-] 1 points by VivaLaRev (120) 2 years ago

I believe in your freedom of speech and I don't believe the government has any right to infringe upon that, even while desecrating the American flag. However, I find it to be the most disrespectful act imaginable short of physical assault on our veterans and those who have died protecting your right to it. Flag desecration is one of the single most cowardly acts protesters can do. You have a right to do so, but your fellow Americans should be stomping your guts out for doing it.

[-] 1 points by Greenzen (17) 2 years ago

People have liberty to do what they want, but what did our Flag do to anyone? Its special interest, not the flag that is doing this to us. If anything they represent only 1% of our flag. Old Glory belongs to the 99%.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

your right...the iPod generation has done George Washington proud

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

ANKARA, Turkey — Tens of thousands of people spent a second night under canvas, in cars or huddled round small fires in towns rattled by aftershocks from a massive earthquake in eastern Turkey that killed hundreds.

this is an instance of distress when I would think it is acceptable for the flag to be hung upside down, saying you are in distress because you cant afford the kindle fire is a joke

[-] 1 points by Gregg85 (26) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

You want to know one of the reasons why the majority of the 99 percenters are not flocking to Liberty Square (and other such sites around the nation), it is because of anti-American acts like that. As well as the dearth of American flags posted around the encampment. Sure they have the right to burn the flag, but it is not the way to have the majority of the 99 percenters actively join the movement. It just turns them off. . . .and that's one major reason why the masses aren't coming.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

sure turns me off, and i think the general theme of the protest is great...but i would not be caught dead down there for reasons like this

[-] 2 points by Gregg85 (26) from Queens, NY 2 years ago

Hey Gibsone 76m, I agree with you. Hopefully, the OWS leadership will finally get the message.

[-] 2 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

Hopefully OWS will get some leadership.

[-] 1 points by socceronly (102) 2 years ago

Ever take a look at your self and wonder how a symbol or a word can own you? It's a good thing to examine those things and divorce yourself from them. Very healthy.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

see how quickly people forget about the freedom the flag represents. your right. my freedom does make up who i am. it owns me. i don't want to live without it. i look at the flag every day to remind myself of what people have done to ensure that I can protest without being shot.

[-] 1 points by socceronly (102) 2 years ago

No. It's the attachment to symbols that is likely go get you shot, or shoot someone else. Your freedom doesn't come from the symbol. Things change, and if freedom is what you cherish, then learn about what it really means and make that your part of OWS.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

its a bad message to send, and it is turning the masses away from the movement. I agree with the theme of the movement but I wouldn't be caught dead down there for reasons like this

[-] 1 points by socceronly (102) 2 years ago

So on the balance sheet you would take a corrupt cronie filled government that would sell your soul in a heart beat for a dollar because something some idiot did or possibly something being fomented because it looks good on TV and causes EXACTLY what you are doing. That isn't paranoia, it's a real possibility

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Without nastiness, I sincerely ask you to rethink this. Our flag stands for many things - freedom and the veterans who fought and died for us - to name two. SEE marine sgt lambasting the police for their violence http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/10/18/ex-marine-sgt-speaks-on-occupy-wall-street-incident/ Would Ben Franklin or John Adams be more upset by the flag incident, or by the deputy inspector who maced two women who were not breaking any law. punch line- I would not desecrate the flag - I dont think it should be done- but we MUST ALLOW IT TO BE DONE - we are Americans

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

It is sending the wrong message...I think those things are wrong as well. it is a very messy, leaderless protest

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

flying a flag upside down is an international symbol of distress,.

protesters often fly the american flag upside-down to tell the world that many Americans do not feel our voices are in our foreign policy..

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

so get off of wall street and occupy DC...go to china and you'll see what real distress is like. and they get killed for hanging the flag upside down.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

The government has been taken over by the 1%,. they live on wall street. There are people occupying DC as well,. .

[-] 1 points by cheeseus (109) 2 years ago

If the American flag is symbolic of our liberty, then what better display of it then to desecrate it? What you are advocating is tyrannical. I fear when one wants to force me to wave a flag while my rights are being waived!

[-] 1 points by paplanner (58) from Mt Union, PA 2 years ago

The flag is desecrated every time a Republican professes love for America while at the same time hating Americans. Don't you dare tell me that I don't have the right to desecrate a piece of cloth. I left a piece of myself in the jungles of Vietnam to EARN that right. What in the hell have you done to be worthy of it?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

i appreciate your service but last time i checked i earned my rights by being born on american soil.

and i remember that the flag is a symbol of my rights.

[-] 1 points by paplanner (58) from Mt Union, PA 2 years ago

and so did every other human animal born on this soil, one of the rights you inherited also carries an obligation with it, to respect the rights of others to do that which you hate. That is the essence of the social contract.

[-] 1 points by Samcitt (136) 2 years ago

It's just a flag, its a symbol only if you choose to perceive it as such.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

well im sure the people stepping on it didn't just want a colorful doormat

[-] 1 points by metapolitik (1110) 2 years ago

Flying or holding the flag upside down is a symbol of distress.

Appropriate for the economic state of emergency we are in if you ask me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_terminology#Techniques_in_flag_display

[-] 1 points by frankchurch1 (839) from Jersey City, NJ 2 years ago

Your side turn the flag upside down. We are here to to turn it back up.

The flag is no longer our enemy. It is merely a piece of cloth. What matters is what you make of it.

[-] 1 points by emeflag (88) from Flagstaff, AZ 2 years ago

Flying the American Flag upside down is no act of treason. Section 8a of the United States Flag Code states, "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property." I think America is in dire distress making this a perfectly appropriate orientation for the flag. God Bless America!

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

you are all just spoiled...no one complained about the financial system when things were good, and things have been worse...its just that we have never had a president that encouraged class warfare

[-] 1 points by emeflag (88) from Flagstaff, AZ 2 years ago

You're doing your right-wing buddies proud! So far you're at the top of my list for next week's "Troll of the Week" award.

[-] 1 points by bootsy3000 (180) 2 years ago

I AGREE with that protester. When corporations' bad gambling debts mean that I have to work til I die to pay off their CEOs, THAT, sir, is treason against the US.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

you are all just spoiled...no one complained about the financial system when things were good, and things have been worse...its just that we have never had a president that encouraged class warfare

you encouraged it by blindly buying into the iPod generation BUYER BEWARE what did you think was going to happen

[-] 1 points by bootsy3000 (180) 2 years ago

I'm not spoiled in the least, thank you very much. I have done everything right - went to an excellent college on a scholarship, worked my way through grad school, amassed 20 years of experience in a highly technical field, and produced a lot of the content that you see in new media. ALSO, through absolutely no fault of my own, I've watched my children's college fund shrivel up and my IRA and my parents' IRAs shrink. ALSO various economists and commentators have been warning about the unsustainability of Social Security since the 80s. None of that has anything to do with a solid defense as to why you think standing on a flag is treason, which it is most decidedly not. Do you have any practical suggestions how to regain American economic hegemony other than to shower the people who are suffering with opprobium?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

VivaLaRev 1 points 12 hours ago I believe in your freedom of speech and I don't believe the government has any right to infringe upon that, even while desecrating the American flag. However, I find it to be the most disrespectful act imaginable short of physical assault on our veterans and those who have died protecting your right to it. Flag desecration is one of the single most cowardly acts protesters can do. You have a right to do so, but your fellow Americans should be stomping your guts out for doing it.

[-] 1 points by betslamb (1) 2 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hZe8CPGA1E&feature=related For those of you who don't know. Educate yourselves. There's a reason why we respect the flag, even if the county, specifically the government, is a mess. I think that most will agree that our freedom came at a price. Respect that.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

freedom came at a price

War is Peace

Truth is Lies

Freedom is Slavery

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

perhaps they would rather think in global terms

Games Without Frontiers - Peter Gabriel (Uncensored)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKb9XQ39-zc

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 2 years ago

It's called the First Amendment. I won't even post links to the horrendous shit the Tea Baggers did in their "protests," in which they compared the president to Hitler. Ugh.

But remember that not everyone has decided to stay at home in their comfy chair and watch the revolution on the Fox teevee channel, so show some respect for people who are standing up for your rights and trying to make the system more equitable so that your investments and retirement aren't subjected to the gambling whims of a plutocratic class.

Peace.

www.groobiecat.blogspot.com

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

first of all, i am not a tea party supporter, i think the images of obama as hitler are just as bad as desecrating the flag.

I am doing my part, just in a way that i see fit. I plan to work my way up the american ladder so that I have the personal ability to correct the things that are wrong with the system. I don't think the intentions of the protest are worn, but the execution is horrendous and threatens to dilute the message.

[-] 1 points by noalternative (43) 2 years ago

people who make the flag and other symbols their top priority in life are bores who have no real concerns.

[-] 1 points by Nulambda (265) 2 years ago

It worries me when the public believes desecrating a flag (a peice of cloth) is more treasonist than lying about weapons of mass destruction, that cost us life and blood, or bailing out banks against the will of the people (lively hood). it worries me and saddens me....

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

first of all, stop calling it a piece of cloth. it is a symbol of america and our freedom.

Second of all, its really easy to play monday morning quarter back. Saddam was executing his own people, tried to assassinate Bush Sr, and claimed to have a nuclear program.

And when it comes to the bailout, just think about what would of happened if we let all of the banks fail, when one bank failure sent us into a recession that almost lived up to the Great Depression.

[-] 1 points by Nulambda (265) 2 years ago

Nonsense. It us NOT a symbol of freedom. And it is NOT a symbol of America. America is a continent comprised if both North and South. Mexicans and Brazillians are both Americans. The flag is a symbol of the United States of America. And plenty of people around the world see our flag as a symbol of imperialism, war- mongering, and corporate greed. All of thosevare opposites of freedom.

Bullshit on the assassination plot. Bullshit on weapons if mass destruction. And we are the country thatvsold him his chemical weapons. We are the country that put Saddam in power. To the Iraqi people, our flag is a symbol of Saddam Huessain's regime, then all the atrocities committed in the name of liberating Iraq.

Bullshit on the banks scare tactic that their failure would have resulted in another Great Depression. We are entering that Great Doression now because the banks have too much power and because of our bailing them out.

It is a piece of cloth. And, just like my God, I put no idols before my liberty. I am a man obligated only to myself, community, and family. Not to a fascist government that exploits it's people for its own selfish purposes.

If you want to believe all the garbage you are fed in the media, be my guest. It is your right. But your laziness to not research information and believe in a government sponsored message us why we are in this mess. Shocker! Government lies!

And it is my patriotic duty to not respect a government, or its flag when it stops respecting we, the people. It isva peice of cloth. Get over it.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

VivaLaRev 1 points 12 hours ago I believe in your freedom of speech and I don't believe the government has any right to infringe upon that, even while desecrating the American flag. However, I find it to be the most disrespectful act imaginable short of physical assault on our veterans and those who have died protecting your right to it. Flag desecration is one of the single most cowardly acts protesters can do. You have a right to do so, but your fellow Americans should be stomping your guts out for doing it.

[-] 1 points by Nulambda (265) 2 years ago

I find it disgraceful that the US government ask young men and women to die for their economic benefit, then cut programs designed to help soldiers' families, and soldiers' returning from their wars. All in the name of a peice of cloth. If the US government uses that flag as a symbol, then we should no longer respect it because they no longer respect our soldiers. That's my point. I respectall thosevthat have served, even if I disagree with them. Most of them had to to get a leg up in life. I can't blame them for that. And they are more courageous than I will ever be. But I don't have tobrespect the s.o.b.'s that take advantage of them, and pay them no respect for their service. The flag may have represented all those things you mentioned in the past, but today it is a symbol of our government's tyranny. I will NOT respect that.

[-] 1 points by Dionysuslives (170) 2 years ago

Nationalism is a cancer. Desecrate the flag and make no apologies.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

why don't you take a nice long vacation to cuba

[-] 1 points by Dionysuslives (170) 2 years ago

I might do that someday. I've heard the beaches are nice. Why don't you think of an original comeback?

[-] 1 points by web214ny (9) 2 years ago

The flag of U.S. imperialism does not show the way forward for the workers and others who are oppressed by its system. So why not step on it and fly black-and-red and black-red-and-green flags instead?

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

I support this movement. I also repudiate such actions. I do not hate my country. I want it to be fixed.

I hate what is being done to it by a do-nothing congress.

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 2 years ago

Another distraction meant to divide the 99%. Don't let them fool you!

[-] 1 points by hopenjoy (4) 2 years ago

iTthought this would be peaceful and help why are they disrespecting our flag and picking on jews on the news and where are we going they asked for the reponsibility and now they areall over every possible project protest there is what about finishing one set project for our homes the loan mod project i lam so grateful and supportive but when will they even talk to any officials there not surfer types just hanging around there voice is so important to all of us we all are afraid for our homes an the poverty that is on its way so when will one responsibility be completed for our help with govt it seems like just one big party lately thats all i hear and I fight for them people even took pictures of them drinking it brike my heart and I had a big fight to stop the gossip we are fighting for them and they are getting support so when will they ask for what we need and meet with some officiaks so we as Americans can breath s sie of relief seniors are also relying on there support they all say it around my neighborhood but when what where will it happen and who will mwke first step this women said they were gypsys and I got so mad I almost passed out but try to be peaceful any way is there any direction there getting like the congress k]like the seenatores not getting an idea or completing one I even tried to get donations for them bathroom facilities portable ones and got my freinds to donate food from there pizzaria we all are waiting so when people are in need thanks

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

wow was there 1 period in there?

[-] 1 points by Cyclops08 (31) from Carlisle, IA 2 years ago

Most people in the US honor and revere the flag. Its not good PR to desecrate the flag-especially if you want to reach the people and affect change.

Show respect and the people will more open to what you have to say.

[-] 1 points by JQcitizen (125) from Houghton, MI 2 years ago

YES! People have to learn how to avoid being divisive.

[-] 0 points by Cancelcurrency (72) from Anchorage, AK 2 years ago

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

[-] 0 points by Cancelcurrency (72) from Anchorage, AK 2 years ago

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

cancel currency...your name says it all

[-] 0 points by maikeru333 (15) from Ottawa, ON 2 years ago

check out the doc 'the secret of oz' for some history of some really patriotic US presidents... most of whom were assassinated...

[-] 0 points by Chris87 (8) 2 years ago

I agree upside-down flag flying is extream. Some serious socal & economic issues going here which makes folks feel were in disstress. Although, this isnt our country to begain with. We stole it. But since "we"' do occupoy it, I understand why people fell so strongly of flying the flag upside-down. Its takin less then 300 years to distory this country.. Its sad to say, but theres no short-term fix to these problums were experancing. Welcome to the new Greece..

[-] 0 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 2 years ago

I have a problem with it too. You are not alone.

[-] -1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 2 years ago

It's not just flying the flag upside down. There are pictures all over the internet of people stepping on the flag or spray painting it. There are video's of occupiers ( in Detroit I think) of screaming "F%^& the Flag !!". Upside down? - a case might be made for that. But the other? This is not doing the movement any good.

[-] 2 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

When I saw the flag flying upside down at Zucotti Park, I cringed -- how awful! "I don't know if I want to associate myself with THIS." I actually did not know about the nation in distress symbol --interesting and clever. My friend also did not know about this symbol. I'll bet a lot of people will misinterpret this one.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

its not just hanging it upside down, but ripping it up, stepping on it...its disgusting

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Agree, agree!

[-] -1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

Does anyone else have a problem with this, or is it just me?

[-] 1 points by Meesa (173) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Gibsone, I totally agree with you. The number of supporters at the sites-- as fast-growing as they are -- reflect just a teeny-tiny percentage of any given city's population. So there are a lot of Americans who are still getting familiar with OWS, or haven't decided how/if they want to participate. Stomping on flags and otherwise desecrating them -- even if it's our right to do so! -- is not a good message. I think that's your point -- it's not about the right to mistreat the flag, its about what those images do for accurate (or inaccurate) perceptions of the Occupy movement. Thanks for raising this excellent point.

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

yes that may be a better way of putting it, as someone new to the idea i found it extremely offensive as an American and offputting

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Grow up kid, you're almost 40 and still getting bullied? By a piece of cloth?

[-] 1 points by gibsone76m (298) from Washington, NJ 2 years ago

What? Almost 40? Are you suggesting that I am being bullied by the Flag? Because last time I checked OWS is trying to revive the values that are instilled in the American Flag. And desecrating it is backwards.

[-] -2 points by e307465 (147) 2 years ago

It is just one more reason this 'movement' will not last. They are alienating a lot of people by doing stupid, disrespectful crap like this.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I am sure they understand people are unhappy with the government

[-] 2 points by e307465 (147) 2 years ago

I'm not so sure Matt. The protests have been directed towards Corporate America and never towards Washington. People need to wake up and realize that Capitalists and Washington are all working hand in hand to make each other rich(er). I just don't think desecrating a flag puts off a positive message.

[-] 1 points by JamesS89118 (646) from Las Vegas, NV 2 years ago

Yea, we were really counting on the children still too attached to their security blanket. Get clue.