Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Damn now THAT’S the power of a forum!

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 20, 2012, 9:46 a.m. EST by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4181) 6 minutes ago

Gun homicides per 100,000 - in the US - 3.7, in New Zealand - 0.17, in Great Britain - 0.04. What does that mean?

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink [-] 1 points by factsrfun (9101) from Phoenix, AZ 5 minutes ago

Some say, if there are no guns people will find another way, even if you look at homicides, US 5.22, New Zealand 1.25, Great Britan 1.57, per 100,000.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

One thing I find interesting about these numbers is if you take the 1.53 non-gun homicides in GB and add it to the 3.7 gun deaths in the US you get almost exactly the 5.22 US overall number. Which would indicate that all gun homicides are extra homicides.

(Just added this in) Here are some more conservative ideals on gun control. Arming teachers is old way of thinking; a fresher, bolder approach is to have volunteers.

http://www.knau.org/post/az-pro-gun-group-wants-armed-volunteers-schools

36 Comments

36 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 0 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

hope you don't mind, I really liked this exchange

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Good piece, one point on the car comparison is that because cars cause deaths and other things people are required to carry insurance, and people do at the cost of 500 to 1500 per year, if it were the same for guns, we might see who really wants to own one.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

More insurance. Wonderful. You going to have police go into the homes to make sure they are insured too?

This sounds like Republicans who want illegals documented to hell and the manpower to make it happen, thus furthering the police state.

Be careful what you are asking for. Its just going to create another black market and thus deaths by other means.

Fucked up kids, and stories that dont make sense, are not a reason to bring this corrupted entity into our homes even more.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Definitely need a force into the home to check for guns. Registered, licensed, insured, tracking device added.

Does it make sense to utilize the new quasi homeland security/Fema brownshirt force?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

pesky facts tripping you again?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The way police can tell who has car insurance is because you are driving on public roads.

A safe in your house is not public property. How do you monitor it? Thats all Im asking. Do we really want this government tracking things that are in our own homes now?

And where, once that line is crossed, does it end. Plenty of bad things happening in the home.

Like with Obamacare, seems reasonable to force people to buy from a huge lobby to some. But what happens when the next guy, perhaps a Republican, decides to expand on that concept?

This story is a bit deeper than simply a kid taking his moms guns. Any word on the second person in the woods yet?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I heard the 2nd person was a fema brownshirt comin to take our guns.

Watch out. It's Obama!

LOL

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

How about it give it a try, no change in the requirements for a search warrant but if you go hunting or to a range or apply for hunting license you could be required to show "proof of insurance" let's give a try anyway.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

demand a plan:

http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index

=1

alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

WRITE CONGRESS:

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006


Dear ............................:

[ _ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E_ ]

While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasable approach. It will

not solve all gun problems, but it will reduce the number of guns and will reduce the number of

dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?

Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:

My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.

1
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.

if you own a motor cycle, a dump truck, and a car - you are tested in each
a written gun test - to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws
being forced to know the law - via the test - means the police know who you are -
and you may be less likely to commit a crime

2
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.

insurance should be at least as high as car insurance [ I would like at least $1,000,000 ]
you must prove your car insurance
annual back ground check to verify your suitability to own guns
every gun must be locked in a gun case or have a trigger lock

3
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.

you are required to report if your gun is missing within 48 hours
the owner will be much less likely to leave a gun accessible to a family member or thief

4
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police

knowing that your gun & its bullets are so easily traced will make you think before using it

peripherally-

Gun fees should be high enough to create a very substantial gun buy-back program

Penalties must be very high in money & jail time - especially after the first offense

No citizens ( except dealers & real collectors ) need more than a small number of guns

Gun fees should be higher for more guns.

The nra fighting against this - will be balanced by the insurance companies fighting for it

But the nra may be in favor of this when the gun companies understand that a gun owner
can get paid to turn in their old gun and will be able to buy a new gun -
with an INTEGRATED lock .

If we legalize drugs, we will clear out jail cells to fill with gun law breakers and
free up police "time" for real crime investigation

I am fundamentally NOT opposed to confiscation, but we WILL get higher compliance
and lower opposition if we use high fees & buyback. Take a position of reducing guns,
like assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles -
rather than punishing a gun nut who spent $10,000 on an armory.



Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides


Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.

More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.

When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially

strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.

For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9

In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England

The USA 1994 gun "ban" did not ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
That is why so many people are buying AR15s before "Obama bans guns"

Scalia - yes that Scalia has indicated the AR15s are NOT protected by Article2

I learned yesterday that LBJ proposed a gun plan similar to the above letter's plan

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

US Government Nations Bombed/Invaded in the Last 4 Years: 8

Rest of World: 0 (unless you really believe that France and Britain help).

World Leader in Weapons Exports: USA

World Leader in Suicide Rate: USA

27th in Education: USA

World Leader in Corrupted Banking Scandals: USA

World Currency Reserve: USA

World Leader in Torture: USA

World Leader in Preemptive Bombings and Wars: USA

There is no political solution to a cultural problem. You can try, but its not going to work. Ban em all. With our government selling weapons to the rest of the world, they are not going to vanish from the hands of those who want them. Our export is destruction. You really want to disarm the people who live under the world leader in terrorism?

Be careful what you ask for, you may get it. I wish our government and society functioned like some overseas, in a peaceful and thoughtful manner. They dont. You can try to engineer society's behavior all you want, but its the product of something much deeper than guns.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

you hate america don't you? the leader in torture is america? no. while we have engaged in horrible practices like water boarding there are countries that torture, real torture. like till death. didn't russia invade georgia? aren't the chinese occupying tibet? just checking the facts. who is number 2 in weapons exports? are you sure london doesn't have more banking scandals than the u.s.? what about greece? i just think your whole post is a bunch of america hating. do we have serious problems absofuckinglutely. but to create a list like this with the glaring inconsistencies is just pure hatred of america. get over yourself.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3316) 1 year ago

It is NOT 'american hating' to call the corporations, bankers and the US Military Industrial Complex, the perpetual war machine and our violent culture to task about what is going on here and what we are doing overseas. Our country is being bought and sold from under us and misplaced 'self love' will really get us nowhere IF we truly want change. Here, have a look at what is going on while you aren't looking -

a) http://www.nationofchange.org/all-american-nightmare-1355848343

b) http://www.nationofchange.org/federal-judge-allows-corporation-file-secret-lawsuit-1355928177

c) http://www.nationofchange.org/americans-kill-people-michael-moore-newtown-mass-shootings-and-us-culture-violence-1355929615

d) http://www.nationofchange.org/after-sandy-hook-shootings-nra-campaign-clout-still-formidable-1355928985

e) http://www.nationofchange.org/real-war-christmas-canceling-unemployment-insurance-two-million-americans-1355993556

OTP may exaggerate a little, but not a lot and he speaks from the heart. Where are you speaking from? Never Give Up Examining Our Society! Occupy The Vision For A Better, Safe, More Peaceful Future!

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i am not saying america is the best or anything what i am saying is we are not the worst. you can't look at china, russia, the banana republics, or two bit dictatorships everywhere and say we are the worst. are we upholding the ideals of western civilization is a better question and to that i would say, which ones?

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3316) 1 year ago

Please read - 'An All American Nightmare' - http://www.nationofchange.org/all-american-nightmare-1355848343 . We are the ones with an international chain of secret prisons, we are the ones with a massive military with bases in over 100 countries, we are the ones people are frightened of and we are the ones living under the illusion of democracy, freedom and choice within a corporate owned duopoly - so please also do try to see - http://www.nationofchange.org/fossil-fuels-global-warming-denial-koch-brothers-influences-behind-us-inaction-1354729439 - and - http://www.nationofchange.org/petes-sake-whats-happened-our-democracy-1354721562 .

Not being the worst is nothing to be proud of! When Gandhi was asked what he thought of western civilisation, his answer was that he thought that it would be a good idea! Everything that is good in this country has been fought for by the people and perhaps give Howard Zinn's 'A People's History of The United States' a try for evidence of that but I do like your final question though :)

Never Give Up Examining Our Society! Occupy The Vision For A Better, Safe, More Peaceful Future!

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

dude i read a people's history. i know what time it is. but don't delude yourself into thinking every other wanna be on the world stage does not want what we have and if they can they will take it. you don't think the russians, the chinese, the indians, the europeans want to dominate the world stage? if it is not the anglo-american union then it will be the one of the others. it's not like nationalism and imperialism are traits exclusive to america.

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3316) 1 year ago

That's old fashioned thinking 'dude' :) I really think that you will gain from and enjoy, 'The Anti-Empire Report' - http://www.nationofchange.org/blogs/william-blum/anti-empire-report-1355422269 . Never Give Up Looking For That Quantum of Mysticism Within Our Reality! Occupy Democracy And Equity!

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its not a pure hatred of America. Im here. Perhaps to put the US as the lone top at banking scandals was wrong, seems how the central banks are taking over everything and fucking the entire world. But we are the reserve currency, so you have to figure we get the most responsibility.

And I doubt any country has more secret prisons around the globe than we do. Im surprised something like this even made it on the news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/dec/13/cia-tortured-sodomised-terror-suspect

We are occupying the entire globe, if you havent looked at how many military bases we have all over the place. Missle defense systems in Poland? Really?

We want meaningful change. And that takes taking a good hard look at who we are expecting to change.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

oh russia and china have plenty of torture prisons they hide nothing. they just don't give a fuck.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Im sure they do. Im just betting that our global network of military bases that literally almost leaves no country untouched is probably superior.

Dontcha think?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

No body is trying to disarm anyone. You are spewing the same fear mongering lies republicans use to get votes, and that the NRA uses to increase the profits of gun makers.

[-] -1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

As Master of the Obvious do you find it difficult to communicate to those who see the impossible as fact?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Another world is possible.

[-] 0 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

There is no world where the facts you stated above are false. Fact.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Pretty hard to prove them false or true either way, because we simply dont have the access to most of the information, except for world wide military bases and countries bombed over the last 12 years. Kind of have to go off what gets put in the news.

[-] 0 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

It would be harder to prove your stats wrong.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Thats kind of where I am with the media at this point. We get fed bullshit from the left and the rights, and you know damn well they are controlling a decent amount of the alternative news too.

So what are we to do? Kind of just have to trust your gut. I tend to think theres a reason the rest of the planet doesnt like us.

[-] 0 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

The reason/elephant in the room is off limits to discussion.

America is resented deeply for the elephant and Americans are to ignorant to know what it is: yet they also are victimized by the very same elephant.

The news is not to be trusted ever again. The information is out there but you now have to earn it through research and deduction. Thanks for doing just that.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Damn hc must be hard defending guns on a forum like this, are you sure the bosses want you to do that?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Im not defending them, I dont have an opinion on em. Go ahead and ban em, doesnt matter to me. Just saying that asking this body to legislate anything when tehy are run by corporations will backfire.

Theres a reason Occupy doesnt recognize this government with demands.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I missed the memo where "Occupy" appointed you it's chief spokesperson, congratulations?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"Theres a reason Occupy doesnt recognize this government with demands."

You didnt get that memo? Its not from me. Its from every group across the country. No one person speaks for the group- did you get that one yet too?

No one person speaks for the group made it very difficult to put out messages to the mainstream. Ya dig?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Don't worry lie spewing fear mongerer. Occupy HAS taken a position.

Occupy the NRA!

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171785/occupy-nra#

Dig that! Don't be afraid you can keep your gun. We just wanna know what the fuck your doin with it.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Since you seem to have no clue let me tell you what Occupy actually is, it is each person making their own voice heard, it is the person who made the 47% tape, even if they have never been to a park. It is all of us even you, it's just the you have nothing of your own to say, you are nothing but hate.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

At least Morning Joe is staying on this, maybe something will be done.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (5952) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Piers Morgan keeps trying to make this point but can't get it right, the thing is all the gun murders are "extra".