Forum Post: Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 31, 2011, 10:21 p.m. EST by BlueRose
(1437)
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"Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average. "
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95836&page=1#.Tv-svkpYLBG
They want cops just smart enough to follow orders, but not question them. Plus, the overpaid higher-ups don't want competition, nor do they want misdeeds exposed. This goes for all jobs, really. All those personality tests you take for jobs are to weed out smart applicants. This is why managers and many CEOs seem so dense. They are puppets. Add desire for power, greed and loose morals, and you have a perfect manager, CEO or cop.
"Hundreds of pre-employment test benchmarking studies ... – for many companies – often result in this “benchmark” pattern of test scores gotten by the best, super-productive sales reps:
high scores on Friendliness
average scores on Assertiveness
average scores on Following Rules & Procedures
high scores on Poised Under Pressure
high scores on Optimism
Calm for inside sales reps – but Excitable for outside ales reps
high scores on Money Motivation
average scores on Intelligence or mental abilities"
http://www.expertmagazine.com/artman/publish/article_1085.shtml
This is interesting, and I did not think about this specific possibility, although I'm sure it is not difficult to put two and two together statistically...in terms of personality profiles...
Another book i read recently (it was recommended at a business seminar i was at) called Learned Optimism, is kind of related to this...
Essentially, it focused on how a 'positive thinking' mentality causes resilence in salespeople for example.... and that instead of testing specifically for aptitude, they tested for 'positive rationalization' even if mentioned as possibly somewhat delusional, or even questionable self-confidence...
Statistically, however, it increased productivity in sales where there was high turnover in positions from burnout and where the sales guys becamed discouraged by rejection...
Was interesting that the author expressed concern how the statistics can be used, and what the implications were for personal development...
Good point though, because society in many respects and areas disadvantages 'high functioning' individuals (artists, intellectuals, independent thinkers, etc)... it is a problem because the talent, potential, and understanding of society is being obstructed, wasted, and not being effectively used to improve society - because of profit margin justifications, and other questionable objectives (political, social, etc)....
Dave
Happened to me in '88. Tested myself right out of an interview at Bell. My old man, a PhD and I were stunned beyond belief.
Thank you blue for sharing your knowledge.
They don't want thinkers, or those with opinions, they want robots - pretty much how every job is now a days
What's the point of education when thinkers are thought so little of?
Hence, No Child Left Behind or as I call it 'Education by the Lowest Common Denominator'. :(
Education is to make money for the banks via college loans. Some of us have high IQ, I personally dropped out of college as I was not learning anything I didn't already know.
It would have wasted my time and money, and is so much more expensive. Friends that I went to school with are usually employed in lesser occupations or nothing to do with field, and are carrying an 80,000 debt load.
I have a house. It is a larger debt load, but I worked for years, and did not get in debt. I built experience and saved money. They get out of school and only have waiter, gas attendant, clerk jobs and no exp.
I was a field Engineer and Project manager with NO degree. Just a brain
Very nice! I played their game and lost. Negative $36,000+ now.
Yep and you cannot bankrupt your way out of it.
At least w/ credit cards you can, but student debt is a lose/lose. By the time you get out into real world you are behind the pack, and start at bottom anyways if you can get a job in field.
The only win/win is nursing / practicioner or paralegal.
The only other is management/project management/ Information technolgies which is my field - but jobs are hard to come by now.
I think there are a lot more people out there, besides nurses and paralegals, for who student loans were beneficial. I graduated dental school with about $200K in loans and had no problem paying it off. People just need to be more selective in choosing the degrees that they take out loans for.
Yes, medical/dental and legal are some good paths; not saying it is rigged for all - but social workers, liberal art degrees, etc does not pay the bills, ok to get later on when dough is rolling in though
I was a PM in tech in the 90's. Travel, roll-outs, money, sales/whores, the whole shebang. Not bad.
But I want my nephew to be a lawyer. I've learned; In every society only lawyers are citizens.
I did well in the 90s, and early 2000s, but its dead now.
Those were the days, I also had company vehicles, american express, home internet paid, expense accts, phone, the roll outs oh great times...
Now nobody needs us, the stuff is all plug/play, and done remotely via scripts/packages. It is all done from one central location.
Back in the day it was more risky and difficult to manage IT. Now its all virtual on the frikkin cloud. I knew when I was setting up data centers/vaults the end was near
Lawyers are needed , but getting the banging career in the field should not be his motive. He may fall into the pockets of sleaze bag companies like Monsanto, etc.
I have since worked as a laborer, oil burner tech, web developer, janitor, you name it
Amen brother! Good to know ya!
Expense reports! Hated them!!! lol Hundred step plan, no problem. Receipts, the worst part.
Peace :)
Yea my employer Inacom Information Systems attempted a merger w/ Vanstar in 2000 which we knew would flop, the execs pulled an Enron on it before Enron even happened
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I did a Diebold roll-out of laptops in RI in '98.
Don't give name over this, your name sort of rings bell....
I was on Projects @ CVS , Vanstar was there, and I went to Inacom on Citizens Bank Projects; Compaq Global Service Provider, StateStreet Partners Healtcare systems, etc
You were with VS, you may recall Andy Gians......??? He had some issues. The CVS project was a joke, and a loss, they never cared and always fired the temp contractors. Vanstar was vicious, I got out and went to IC/ and they later merged and I got to meet everyone I used to work for and shoe was on other foot!
terrible. IC was the way to go. May be to personal but did you 1099 it? that sounds risky.
I got everything I was owed after bankruptcy court settlement, and I was awarded my share with exception of 1 wk of paid vacation and one medical bill. Better than nothing??? They stopped paying for health ins, yet were still extracting premium. The one time I used it for wisdom tooth surg. My ins was rejected because prem was not paid. Then nextel phone and MCI card stopped wkg intermittently.. I then knew it was coming, I was picked up by another company... Too bad not too much left to choose from. I am overqualified to be a tech at staples & bestbuy and managers are power trip type that wk 80 hrs 7 days week and treat people like slaves,
like Mickey D's or fast food/ Walmart retail.
I cant bite my tongue in environments like that
Sure absolutely. I hobbled around Home Depot for a year before getting on SSDI thereby losing my $55,000 income level with an hourly $8.5 so my ssdi is a grand a month instead of $22??.
You know, Inacom was the perfect example of what's wrong in American business today, I feel. So quick to sell, so long to deliver and all worth more in pieces. Glad I wasn't there for the fall. Hope you got out OK.
They always had good advancement, I moved up quick and the company was toast. I started in b/f actually and started supervising projects. The company was great , Fairfield and the others cashed out after insider trading I know as I took records to Citizens Bank, a stock expert looked at ICO and saw charts and said - that is insider trading. Get out now. Inacom was trying to convince employees to buy their stock, I dumped. It went to penny stock within 2 wks. I did not fall for the luncheons, parties all of that it was too good to be true; Compaq actually was a major creditor in bankruptcy case.
I forget the exact amout but it was about 50 grand they spent on my PM masters classes.
Spent a week in Seattle just taking a seminar and the room was $600 a night!
Yea, Fairfield sounds familiar. That's some good advice, a good person helped you.
I was fine and went on to other company, the greed and corruption in my Littleton/Burlington/Needham merged branches some unfortunately transferred to next company, and all they cared about was bottom line - all the good people got flushed out all they want is yes people and kiss a$$es. Anyone that has a brain and asks too many questions is axxed. Unfortunately I am one of those.
I fn hate that. Mediocrity! You know my favorite moments where when brake/fix guys came to me and asked for a class or something to improve with. That is an amazing high when a like mind asks "How can I improve and can you get the company to pay for it?" Hell yes!!!
Wow, those might have been after me or in another area. That's truly amazing. That cool about names, no worries there I understand.
Small world...I bet you are not prospering in IT projs/outsourcing anymore though....I was replaced with 3 contractors, and they ended up losing accounts anyways. I cannot mention company name I went to , but Diebold was In RI, and was @ Citizens as well.
All of the banking and system mergers that went on were a considation to lead us to economic problems we have now.
I was on trading floor @ StateStreet before meltdown started, I could see that the project was going to be cut short and recall the day of the first failures WaMu, CW, etc and pulled out investments.
State street had a funny derivatives/hedge system and the Russel Fund were all computer macros, trades were executed based on mainframe data and formulas/algorithms. The economy was on robot mode all that time....
Wow, that's closer than I ever got to their 'magic' algorithms! We must have been in the same Diebold offices in RI then. The sales guy was such a flake we piled in a car at mid night to cross a state line for more booze at a tity bar. Real American business experience!!!
I don't know a Rev :(
Re-read post, I edited it, there is someone I know out your way James Bla....I won't post full name. Your name rings a bell, did you travel to RI or a road warrior? I was on road/field a lot but usually stationed at central point
Back then I was a true PM and was lucky when I got to meet anyone working on my some projects. I was trained by a guru in Omaha and he tried to get me to be the guru for the company so he could leave and seek fortune ellswhere. I said no way there's NO MONEY in being a trainer. But my name got on a lot of templates distributed companey wide. It was early days with PM when I was there.
I don't know anyone over here or LA. Did one project in LA but remember nothing. And I was going by Calvin Spencer at the time. I'm a Jr and that happens.
Troy? I really don't remember any names except Lars in Denver. All else is gone.
This would be funny if it weren't so sad.
"Stupidity not essential but would be an asset". LOL
But, in all seriousness, the presence of a few highly intelligent and personable officers would exert a good influence on the whole force. Often, even the chiefs are not that bright and that is a disaster!
Similarly, the presence of a few "progressives" would provide the intellectual stimulation which is essential to improving the quality of police work in general.
Let's face it, all over the world, policemen are coming under heavy criticism. And in fact, there are many recent revolutions that have started after some particularly serious incidents of police brutality.
WHO started the Arab Spring in Tunisia??? The COPS who bullied a poor young vendor until he set fire to himself in protest. No, I am not making this up, that is the TRUTH!
Good points. And, let's not forget the pepper spraying dude at UC Davis.
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After reading William Taylor's book .... I wonder what the Chief of Police in Providence RI has to say about Cops with low IQ's. (and lacking all people skills)
It's actually as much to allow not as smart people to still qualify for the job. They have to allow for the average and slightly below average to gain employment.
Why wouldn't the force want the best candidates for the positions? That seems counter-intuitive to the goals of every other employer...
Nice Post Blue Rose
gives creedence to the pharse dumb copper
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I often wonder if they test their OPINIONS on such crucial issues as racism, sexism, homophobia, poverty, authoritarianism, blindly following orders, etc., etc... Would a candidate perceived as being too "progressive" on such issues be considered a misfit or a nerd in most police forces?
Progressives hurt the bottom line and they are the whistle-blowers. I am sure companies weed progressives out, just look at the real world. When you take these employment tests, you have to pretend you are a dumb Republican if you want the job.
yeah those tests always ask veiled questions about authority and conformity.
Good point!
You know what? Maybe progressives should join forces, create their own businesses, jobs, etc. I think that might well be an essential dimension to "building a New America".
That's a novel idea! Work for a living! shees! Why didn't I think of that?
"Budcm" is a hateful, contemptuous T R O L L
To understand WHAT MAKES A TROLL TICK - AND have a chuckle while you're at it - go to:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-trolls-think-trollosophy-exposed/
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Nah! All you need is to show up sans earrings, pierced nose, various tattoos and a pony tail. (maybe a bath would help!)
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We should pick cops at least as carefully as we pick juries.
ABSOLUTELY!
In some cities, in fact, some policemen are practically social workers in uniform. They are on foot and their mission is to visit neighborhoods and talk to people, build trust, etc.
As we all know, many neighborhoods are in need of healing - I mean, BESIDES Wall Street! - and I think that at least 15% of any given police work should be comprised of "social-worker-cops".
This is NOT some wild idea. I've had the chance to talk to a policeman who actually spoke 3 languages fluently. A very cultured man. Not exactly the tired cliche of "the cop as pig", huh?
All those personality tests you take for jobs are to weed out smart applicants.
So you can identify the high IQ people by their lack of employment.....
and then there is this piece of crap which is code for i hate women, blacks, and jews see if you can read between the lines. http://www.businessweek.com/management/three-types-of-people-to-fire-immediately-11082011.html#
Yep, good observation, good find.
Well, I have to be careful here 'cause I like a lot of that article but I'm also a full on Socialist.
Yes, I'm an entrepreneurial hypocrite. It's not fun or pretty, unless you count pretty lonely.
Firing the haters and naysayers just seems so right to me though. And I would tax the shit out of any 'emotion' based personnel changes. I just can not argue forcing some poor shmuck to keep bad employees.
I have to say, let them fire for negativity but tax the hell out of 'em for doing it. Is this fair?
they are not talking about bad employees they are talking about blacks, women, and jews read between the lines.
oh, that I did not get and would not support. unequivocally :)
know it all is another way of saying jew, the victim is another way of saying blacks and women, nonbelievers is another way of saying independent thinker.
Recent EEOC Litigation and Settlements
"A number of recent EEOC enforcement actions illustrating basic EEO principles focus on testing.
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/factemployment_procedures.html
it is any easy way for them to get a submissive work force.
got to love the part on know it alls "The best innovators are learners, not knowers" what a croc of shit. the best innovators are people with a comprehensive knowledge on any given subject. these two douchebags demonstrate what is wrong with america
agreed, but the "know it alls" often do get targeted, as divisive. Good Article quantumystic.
Check out this post. http://occupywallst.org/forum/washigtonjefferson-peoples-movement-criticism-chan/
I'm not a know it all, I'm a learner innovator.
know it all is just code for jew
they don't mention anything about hiring smart talented peohttp://www.businessweek.com/management/three-types-of-people-to-hire-today-12132011.htmlple
Yes.
"Hundreds of pre-employment test benchmarking studies... – for many companies – often result in this “benchmark” pattern of test scores gotten by the best, super-productive sales reps:
http://www.expertmagazine.com/artman/publish/article_1085.shtml
your interpretation seems to be off - what you are confusing as employers "wanting" people of average or low intelligence dur to greed, power, low morals, etc" is a situation of employers knowing that people of greater than average intelligence likely will not be suited for certain types of jobs. It's a situation of matching job and employee with the job. Your experience with non-technical positions such as a generic sales rep is representative of a very small segment of the population. I would think that you would find it admirable that companies are willing to hire average citizens......your reasoning of why they would do so seems misdirected.
From the original post, "This goes for all jobs, really. All those personality tests you take for jobs are to weed out smart applicants. This is why managers and many CEOs seem so dense. They are puppets. Add desire for power, greed and loose morals, and you have a perfect manager, CEO or cop."
I think you've made a big leap from the very interesting basic facts you present to the demonization of the 1%. You also fail to identify the "puppet-masters," who must certainly have very high intellects to have pulled off the conspiracy you imply.
http://tinyurl.com/OccupyCongressJan17