Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Concern about mounting tensions between OWS participants and NYPD

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 2:53 p.m. EST by AndrewK47 (26)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I am concerned that using media footage of officers using excessive force against protestors in order to gain support has negative implications. I feel like the men and women of the NYPD are being turned into the enemy. Some individuals in uniform choose to use excessive force but they do not represent everyone in the NYPD. However I feel like the actions of these individuals is projected onto all individuals. Today a girl told me about how she and others had been yelling at officers in the heat of the moment telling them they should be ashamed of their actions. These were the people simply trying to respectfully do their job. She said that she had seen tears in a few of their eyes. This was a powerful eye-opening story for me. Today in the park I experienced something similar myself. I saw group of people yelling at one officer calling him a Fascist and a Nazi. In my opinion he was respectfully doing his job and not doing anything wrong. I could see on the officer’s face this insulted and frustrated him. Later on I saw the officer kindly conversing with a few of the protestors. This was a good man, who would probably be on our side if he didn’t have to do his job. In the eyes of the law the police are justified in using pepper spray and tear gas. The right to Occupy is not technically considered valid under the Right to Assembly. Occupation and blocking traffic are considered to be Civil Disobedience. There is a difference between a freedom and civil disobedience. It is important for people to know the difference and be aware of the risk involved when pushing boundaries.

Please stay peaceful. Violence is never justified

31 Comments

31 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by OccupyLink (529) 8 years ago

Hi Andrew. I appreciate you saying this, and of course I agree 100 percent. There are good and bad police officers for sure. I have lived in NYC and had a great relationship with the police there. I certainly don't go along with calling the police or anyone names. They have a hard enough job as it is.

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 8 years ago

If the retention of your job is contingent upon the oppression of your fellow countrymen, you are the enemy.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

You said it well. I'd add that so many cops seem to get genuine pleasure from inflicting gratuitous pain. The job makes the man.

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 8 years ago

The empowerment of the ignorant and brutish historically creates such subcultures. As history also shows, such subcultures without intelligent guidance are doomed to fail horribly. May I refer to one Nikolai Krylenko.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

In my experience a majority of officers are in fact not like this. It is a minority. It is like the people doing the rapes in OWS meeting grounds speaking for the rest of us. It is not right.

[-] -1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Some cops are rapists. You admit that. Then what are the others? Lookouts?

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

If this makes us lookouts for the rapists in OWS, then sure. As I said, they are men and women doing their job. Upholding the law. Many at OWS are breaking the law. Albiet peacefully, but angry shouting isn'y exactly my idea of "peaceful" it creates tension. When you have thousands of angry protestors shouting at you you get nervous and tend to be more likely to react poorly. Look at it from their perspective. It is scary.

[-] 1 points by Thinkdeer (250) 8 years ago

It is scary from their perspective that is true, and their fear is intensified by their commanders telling them to be on the look out and weary. It is a really tough situation and I endeavor to have compassion for the officers even as I feel that the office is being misused.

People are really angry, a lot of us have been really angry for a long time. Anger is a sign that something needs to change, and hiding that anger does not change the thing. Exposing the anger points the finger at what is going on. I feel it is a three prong problem, the 1st is that those hold great power feel more entitled to the continued growth of that power than is what is just (in this case power is wealth), 2nd politicans are corrupt and no longer listening to the complex and diverse needs of the people, 3rd the people are no longer involved in their communities, and in responsibility for their own lives.

All three things need to change, this doesn't mean an end to america which i love, nor an end to capitalism which we benefit from its fruit, nor rejecting my neighbors who may disagree with me for expressing my anger. It means bringing back intention and awareness to politics, business, and community. Unfortunately in order to do this some people will have to lose some of their power, and they refuse, and this brings the ire of those who see the need for change.

And frankly yelling isn't serenity, but in terms of the expression of anger with assurance that you will be heard it is peaceful.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

My understanding is that OW security and others aprehended assault suspects and handed them over to the authorities. I read that when a rapist was caught in occupy Philly the cops refused to take him into custody. Smartphone footage of the OWS protester named Brendan "Romania" being savagely "stomped on" by NYPD officers for several minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ3ZWRpA5s

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

I believe these occurrences are a result of the mounting tension. If protestors were peacefully sitting around while the NYPD attempted to apprehend this person who was repeatedly kicking a barrier and than ran away when an officer tried to apprehend him, instead of people standing around, shouting, pushing, yelling, screaming, then this incident would have gone down more smoothly and peacefully. We are equally responsible for the mounting tension, which I believe is the main cause of most NYPD violence. Like I have said there are a few deplorable individuals but most are SIMPLY UPHOLDING THE LAW. It is their job and in my opinion a majority of officers are doing it in the most respectful manner that WE allow.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Cops are supposedly professionals. Deputy Inspector Anthony (Tony Lunchmeat) Bologna was seen chemical spraying the faces of women who were subdued and captive. I'm saying that, considering his rank and the slap on the wrist he finally got after the whole world saw this crime, I'm saying it's the real in practice (not written) policy of the police department. Get it?

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 8 years ago

I think most people aren't that naive. They get it. Just like us here. Some Police are bullies, but most by far are not. It's like America at large. We have bad actors, hell there's probably some within the movement itself. Mic ChecK!

Let's not encourage generalizing and let's not be paranoid about it either. Just keep telling the truth. It works and people will get it.

We are the 99%

[-] 1 points by onlineuserid (1) 8 years ago

To my friend. You were torn apart by the police during the eviction. You told me they breathed new life into your heart; there’s something there that wasn’t in there before. Now you have found another place for yourself, your heart. I see you now with your hard words and harsh signs, berating the cops all day, all night, teaching them their sins. You said, “I’m not afraid anymore, I’m not afraid of anything”. You’ve found something deep, something truthful, I understand that. But friend, my dear friend, can you hear from that place you’ve found ? If you can, I beg you to listen, because this movement depends on you. If you follow the path of suffering they have inflicted on you, you will lose all, and so will we. But if, somehow, some way, you find compassion, you find understanding of the hearts and minds of even your enemies, if you teach them, you will win the biggest battle of all. Please dear friend, find your way back to us; all depends on you.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

Compassion! Yes! I believe all OWS protestors should show compassion towards the NYPD even when they abuse us! Understanding in the hearts and minds of your enemy! It is there! Pushing yelling and shouting is not compassionate behavior!

[-] 1 points by Trogdor (65) 8 years ago

Remember, these same people you demonize will step in front of a bullet for you, your family, or your friends. They will try to save your life if it is threatened. They will run to the danger as you run away.

[-] 1 points by buphiloman (840) 8 years ago

I have nothing personally against 99% of the NYPD as human beings. I'm sure they're decent, kind, hard working folks.

But as long as they wear the uniforms and engage in the tactics of the .01%, then they remain on the wrong side of history. they should strike now. And join us in making a better world for ourselves and our children.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

They should join us. I think this would be more likely to happen if we had somewhat of a coherent message. But they should not be made into the enemy!! Violence is never justified! This is a peaceful protest! I have written this proposal that I think would not only get more police officers to join us, but give us a justification for civil disobedience, and make it much more clear that the NYPD is in fact violating our rights and freedoms. Please take a few minutes to read and comment: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-unity-the-100/

[-] 1 points by buphiloman (840) 8 years ago

I am all for non-violence. The problem is that .01% love violence. Rape, plundering, stealing, killing, war and brutality are their pastimes. And since they are a minority, they require large police forces and private and public armies indebted to them, in order to get their rocks off.

The police must resign. They must strike, now, and refuse to serve any politician who has recieved a single dollar of Corporate money (Presidents, Congresspeople, Governors, Mayors, Councilman, Commissioners, and representatives).

Only then can they resume their rightful place as protectors of the 99% and not the 1%.

[-] 1 points by Vooter (441) 8 years ago

"Some individuals in uniform choose to use excessive force but they do not represent everyone in the NYPD. However I feel like the actions of these individuals is projected onto all individuals."

Substitute "OWS" for "uniform" and "the NYPD." Now we're even....

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 8 years ago

The actions of brutality against the innocent are video, viral and not impotent. If there are police officers committing violence next to you and you do nothing, you are an accomplice. You deserve no sanctuary along with the perpetrator. It is your face officer. Your children will be affected. Behave well or expect global scrutiny.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

They are definitely potent, but I believe they are attracting a following for OWS in the wrong way. By joining people together in a rage against the men and women of the NYPD. I think there should be a message unifying the people, not just an angry response to violence

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 8 years ago

The men and women of the NYPD are faced with a clearly defined position then, don't you think. Ostracize the indecent from the rest of yourselves. Make it obvious and leave the bad apples amongst your ranks to face the consequences of their own actions. In fact, tell the world what they and who they are. Names addresses, everything, just like the NYPD does to all those they oppose. Embrace your Pyrrhic victory.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

As I have said, anyone who files into the middle of the street is in fact breaking the law. People claiming to take over public space for occupation are breaking the law. I would have less of a problem with this if there was a message people were overall supporting but as far as I can tell this is all literally for attention.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Gratuitous police violence is gratuitous police violence. We have seen several videos of high ranking white shirt cops going apeshit with pepper spray and batons. It's policy, and it's the worse thugs who rise up the ladder of rank.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

There are more officers in regular uniform than there are high ranking white shirt cops. My point exactly. It is policy, it is the law, to maintain order. They are following the books on treatment of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Suer it is policy "to uphold (some) laws that apply to certain classes of people." I'm talking about chemical spraying the face of a person who is already captured and subdued, humiliating women already captured and subdued by having male cops peeping them in the lady's room and up to and even including rape, as I am familiar with from my own personal knowledge. THAT'S what I'm saying "is policy." ARE YOU AGREEING WITH THAT? Do you think it's reasonable police policy?

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 8 years ago

The cops proclaim a motto of courtesy, respect and professionalism, not one of working out their personal hostile and aggressive tendencies on others, even on lawbreakers. I say their motto really is "Courtesy Respect AND Professionalism (CRAP). These are not their attributes, these are what they demand from the public.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

IF the protests were directly defending the constitution by acting to defeat the abridgement of free speech that current media exclusivity has, and citing a continuing 100 year old violation of constitutional duty by congress, failure to call an Article 5 convention; THEN the Right to Assembly has such legal weight that camping out, or literal occupation might be consitutionally valid.----

Law enforcement has taken an oath to defend the constitution. Protestors precense with the intent to do the same thing, and doing so peacefully while citing laws empowering their activity, not just the right to assemble, but the duty to defend if such allegiance is given, and violations of laws justifying their complaint and precense will be very difficult to abuse, by law enforcement, in any way.

[-] 1 points by AndrewK47 (26) 8 years ago

I agree. If civil disobedience were being enacted for a cause, instead of for attention, this would be exponentially more powerful. I have drafted this list of proposed goals for OWS that I believe will help to show the NYPD that being against us is going against America and the Constitution. It is a short read, please comment or pass on if you can agree http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-unity-the-100/

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

I not only agree I posted there.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-proposal-for-unity-the-100/#comment-378985

The fact that congress has been in violation of our first and last constittuional right for 100 years is reason to protest. Due process has us doing that in our states towards the legislators in demand for the state to use its power over the federal government under Article 5 of the US Constitution.

Here is a post you might see interest in.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/law-full-assembly-strategy-ease-of-eviction-legal-/#comment-378651

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 8 years ago

I am thoroughly familiar with Article 35 and I haven't seen any excessive behavior whatsoever. If anything, I think they have been far to0 courteous.

NYC supports its police officers. And you are just a bunch of skells.