Forum Post: Can OWS join forces with the Democratic Party?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 9, 2011, 7:49 p.m. EST by AnnArkey
(31)
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To fight these Republican banksters that are stealing our money?
BOOOO!! Get out of here government lover. Obama is as complicit as the rest.
Yes. The richest got richer than ever under Obama.
http://www.newser.com/story/132701/why-wall-street-banks-and-firms-are-profitable-under-obama.html?utm_medium=goognews&utm_campaign=chan3_feed
all those factors that went in to enriching the banks were what the pundits call unintended consequences. Those unintended consequences should be held up as evidence for why trickle up economics works better than trickle down. This is just a casual observation from an independent mind.
Hmmmm, that's an interesting distortion of the meaning of the word democracy or a party that is supposed to stand for it. They don't, if they did they would have been fighting for the ultimate form of democracy 1/2 century ago. They didn't so the USA never restablished constitutional government and you got discouraged about government.----
The ultimate form of democracy, article 5 of the US constitution, our first and last right. If we do not use it now, there will be no more rights.
no, because the democratic party is PART OF THE PROBLEM.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
Nooo. Both parties are owned by the corporations. They have no future in the world in which we fight to achieve!
Why? Yes the movement is obviously more to the left but the Dems are just as guilty as the Repugs! Perhaps not as bad but they too sold their souls to the 1%! I say get rid of all so called Dems & replace them with real Progressive ones!
......they are all dirty....last election wall street gave it's money to Obama. Vote ALL incumbents out in 2012!
Interesting comments... back when things were really ripping along.
fail . The Dems are just as corrupt
Some are I'm sure but mostly our problems were caused by far right wing Republicans like Bush.
'AnnArkey', Please understand that this is a movement against corruption. The way it looks to me, you're trying to recruit for the corrupt. This is not the place for that. If you dislike corruption, then protest it.
That is just plain wrong. While the Republicans are corrupt through and through, the Democrats are no better. Obama is a bankster.
http://takingbackamerica78.blogspot.com/
The very fact you blame bush shows how ignorant you are about politics and history. Bush was a bit player just like Obama. The real blame lies with our congressmen and senators of both parties particularly the senate banking committee starting as far back as the early 90s'. Couple that with the passage of NAFTA and you have a disaster in the making. Learn something.
PLEZ ALL Ron P's supporters realize that he will never be President! His ideas are crap, he's fucken older than dirt & looney tunes! YES, I like the fact he's for getting us out of the wars, ending the Federal Reserve & legalizing pot! But he doesn't agree with civil rights, has aligned himself with the John Birch Society, states he HATES BIG Government but wants big gov to tell a woman she doesn't have a right to choose! I could say more but I'm tired of you Pauly's! Please give it a REST & GET OVER IT! Ron Lawl will never be President! THANK GOD!
sun crawl?
Poor confused man. If Ron Lawl doesn't get in this time around I don't see a future for this country.
Your stupid statement about this racist old fart has just convinced even more how truly brainwashed you RonP's must be! Get help now! BTW I am a woman!
Ughh so tired of trying to reason with people that continually vote themselves into financial servitude. Who is your candidate?
Hey, my vote is only acknowledged within the HIVE MIND as Anonymous :-)
That is actually pretty awesome.
TROLL
Yup, AnnArkey is just a troll who thinks it's cute.
These trolls aren't funny, like most cons.
They need trolling lessons.
well, they aren't even trying anymore. probably a sign of a coming shift in OWS.
N O , "AnnArky" !!!!
Where have you been in the last three years? Obama is just as OBAMINABLE as Bush.
And the Democrats are just as corrupt as the Republicans.... with VERY RARE exceptions, like Sanders or Kucinich. If I were Sanders or Kucinich, I would jump out of that sinking ship and join OWS.
You are right, but their are miilions of Democrats far-left of those in congress and the white house. In the short term, I think it's practical strategy to run people from the movement in the Democratic primaries, or vote for the most progressive people on the ticket. I believe it's too close to the next election to do otherwise. This issue frustrates me because it's the most difficult issue we have to face - how to bulid alliances without compromising our goals. It killed the left in the 60s. I do agree with you, by the way, about the Dems currently in power. I just don't think we can alter the wretched two party sysytem in less than a year.
That's my thought too. before anybody votes for Obama, I'd want to see him locking the bankers up and committing political suicide because the 1% would withhold all campaign funds from him as would other would be bribers. If OWS could make him honest his career would be over. I don't think OWS has that kind of pull. Maybe they pressure him to delay any decisions on it until after the election. I think he would take the votes and betray everyone when it came time to send the bankers to jail. Nope, I don't think I'm voting, my options are crap!
I agree that the options are crap, but under Bush this country skirted the line of outright Fascism. Ted Kennedy was put on a "no fly list." I think we cannot afford another Republican administration - especially after the advent of this movenent. Ever thought about the possibility of reprisals?
This movement has accomplished great things in a very short time, mainly in educating people about the real nature of the problem. Now we must encounter the question of how to change it - it is a shift from strategic thinking to tactical thinking. How can we bring as many aboard as possible, and direct our energies towards effective means of change? I don't have the answers to that question, but it must be done successfully.
Spankymojo has been screaming for a leader. The movement needs a spokes person if not an outright leader. They need to look good on TV or have some natural charm. OWS only needs one thing they can agree on to have point to start at and start to negotiate. Or an offshoot of OWS that deals with wanting the money taken out of politics and limits imposed on what can be given and accepted by all candidates or some other hot issue that isn't going away. An off-shoot with a more institutionalized name that reflect that we are not going home and for getting about it, we are going to be around for a long time working for reform of this government.
In the light of the fragmentation I am seeing, I reluctantly agree with you. We must do something to stop this bickering or it will break this movement! If we exclude everybody how the hell will we accomplish anything?
I wouldn't exclude anybody. OWS would still be OWS. But it would need to give birth to a group with the staying power of the NRA or other groups that lobby. The question is how many people the offspring would be able to grab and mobilize for voting, there would lay the power, if the text say show at the courthouse, would you be able to get people to go? Its not OWS and any negative publicity attached to the movement but its own thing, supported by OWS and also people who could join pay a small membership and get a newsletter. Open to everyone who isn't happy about the issues that seem carry over from city to city, perhaps with local chapters across the country. Everyone need not be at the protest but better be able VOTE! OWS who want to Vote as well as protest on important issues. A group who could inform the democrats what its gonna take to get us to vote.
Yes, these are all positive steps, we must shift from purely strategic to tactical thinking:)
Senator Sanders is an independent. My choice for president!
Sanders is indeed an independent. Thanks for correcting me.
i can't believe you aren't calling this guy out!!!
Maybe they will. Mr. Sanders has good ideas. I went to his state one time. Very nice.
Joining forces with one of the two corrupt parties is no solution.
OWS should become a mass Independent voter movement denying both of the corrupt dominance parties their electoral power.
President Obama is doing a great job. He had had to take on more than any president in history. OWS should stand firmly behind him. He's one of us!
Nice try:
Both Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. They both have being bought up and paid for a long time ago.
If real change is to be made, we must get rid of tribal mentality and each of us start thinking for ourselves. Democracy have one fatal flaw, the vote of a fool carry as much weight as the vote of the informed. Thus the result is almost always foolishness.
The only way to combat this foolishness is that each of us take responsibility and have a clear vision of the America we want to live in. We do not need leaders, we are the leaders Talk and learn from each other. Form your own opinion, then and only then vote for whoever express that opinion better; One hint, it will not be the one that tells you what to think,
Why does this have to be a political issue? Republican banksters? Both sides of the plolitical spectrum are just as bad. For example, here are some of Obama's contributers: JPMorgan Chase & Co ($808,799), Citigroup Inc ($736,771), Morgan Stanley ($512,232), UBS AG ($532,674). Its not Republican or Democrats that are "banksters", its the individual, aka, 99% of white house, congress, and the rest.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
OWS is part and parcel of the DNC.
We need a new or improved system so right now it doesn't matter which side of the coin you choose because neither can do the job right.
OWS may have to decide between voting democrat to stall the Tea Party or letting Obama sink like a rock for being neck deep in bankers. If there are tons of democrats that with hold their vote, the country could be in real trouble and more things could be lost, a lot more. However the democratic party would then have to do a major policy upgrade to try to capture votes in the future. Of course the democrats get bigger pay offs than the republicans who are kinda making the corporate rate and are a given. The reform of the democratic party will likely just be smoke and mirrors anyway. Same dirty dogs, new sales pitch. That's just how looks to me right now.
Hell no democrats are the same as republicans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm009Es6bQo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If that happened OWS would lose my Independent voter support.
The cause of the 2008 economic collapse is bi-partisan. Both parties are equally culpable in repealing Glass-Steagall and licensing the banksters to steal the accumulated home equity, savings and livelihoods of millions of honest tax paying middle-class Americans.
Here is the proof.
The Congress that Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html
A directory of 64 current U.S. Senators & 171 sitting Representatives who repealed Glass-Steagall.
Along with those justifiably angry at Obama's capitulation to Wall St. on the economy, there are also a lot of people posting here whose common aim is to divide the left. I don't know why this is so hard for so many to understand. Corruption itself is the enemy, not the Democratic party. By drawing a line in the sand against the Democrats, all this movement will do is destroy itself, because in the existing two party system virtually every progressive in America is a Democrat! Get that you self-defeating fools?!!! If not, you better go take Poly-Sci 101! This is NOT about exclusion but about inclusion! If you can't grasp that than you are a liability not an asset to this movement! There is a difference between the concept of being coopted and forming an alliance. The protest movement was destroyed in 1968 because the left was hopelessly divided. One thing the Republicans have all over the Progressives in this country is that, like a bunch of automatons, they stick together and stay on message. Getting progressives to cooperate is like hearding cats with predictable results. Grow UP! It seems this is the one thing the trolls and the legitimate occupiers agree on; that should be food for thought!
I can't believe this same shit keeps popping up on this forum. One more time! All three branches of government, all political parties and all news media are owned by the elite of Wall Street. In a more perfect world every one of these bastards would have been tossed in jail. WAKE UP! Its time to change cups not just change the type of tea!
No. The best thing OWS could do is work to remove corrupt pols in BOTH parties.
Which means we need to vote in the primaries this spring and remove anti-worker, anti- middle class incumbants BEFORE the general elections.
We had a victory here in ohio, because we voted en-mass in an off year election.
We have to keep up the momentum.
We will prevail.
no the state is bad
No but John McCain is starting the F'ed up party. He wants OWS to help him.
I do believe that the majority of the issues that confront us stem from repelican ideology and policy.
I don't think alignment with the dems is going to happen, too many believe the myth that each party is equally to blame. It is an absurd vision of reality - but to be fair there is naturally some basis for the perception.
Clinton could have done something about the genocide in East Timor long before 98. Carter could have done something back in 1978.
That aside, the dems are largely undisciplined, and they might get the notion that if they align with us - or we with them - that we are somehow under control, and they can relax.
I think our influence will be greater with both parties if we remain unaffiliated, and it may even be easier for us to push the dems our way - especially since we don't have a leadership of any kind.
If we have no leader, and yet align ourselves, we leave ourselves open to being led.
That said, anyone who thinks the dems are as big a part of the problem behind the collapse of the middle class as the repelicans isn't facing reality. That reality does show itself in places where repelican ideology holds sway - when we protest in such communities the police are sent in to sweep us up.
It is clear who feels their ideological dogma is at greatest risk.
Ray-gun-omics advocates.
Deregulationists.
His centrist rethoric started after the banksters paid him protection money.
that is such a grotesque oversimplification that it discredits its own stated time line, and doesn't even merit the least little bit of research.
Next I'm sure you will propose that he is in fact a muslim, born in a.f.r.i.c.a. . . .
Not true either but I understand. You clowns are desperate. I'm sure Ya'll will become absolutely frantic by midsummer.
I should be quite entertaining . . . .
Well said. I would only add that come election day we have to vote for someone. Who will depend on the alternatives available to us at that time.
I'm in Vermont. We're lucky here. On the national level we have top notch representation.
And I'll be voting for President Obama - not that I'm entirely happy with everything he has done or how he has done it. But I can appreciate the fact that he faces overwhelming opposition from the repelican block. They are quite plainly content to do what they can to tank the economy in an effort to make it appear he is responsible.
Just look back at the debt ceiling debate. Jobs numbers began to stagnate in the six weeks running up to that August deadline. The stock market oscillated wildly. Yet they maintained their obstinate refusal to compromise, right up to the very last minute. It was unprecedented. Not in nearly one hundred years of debt ceiling legislation have they behaved with this kind of brinkmanship. And they claimed to have the majority of the public behind them, despite polls indicating that the public overwhelmingly wanted them to compromise. The poll numbers as I recall ran up to 75%. They refused.
They refused to consider "raising revenue" through such measures as closing tax loopholes, addressing various forms of 'corporate welfare', or ending the Bush era tax cuts.
Trickle down ray-gun-omics doesn't work. Tax breaks for wealthy people or corporations does not produce jobs.
And global warming is gonna bite their ass. Unfortunately, it's gonna bite ours as well.
All true. The only thing I have grave reservations about is how Obama squandered his mandate. That tremendous departure from "yes we can" made it look like he knew the answer but fogot the question!
I'm hard-pressed to find a rational answer for that turn of events that doesn't reflect poorly on him. I don't think there is one.
So I'll see what options are available. Elect Republicans? "Just say, 'No.' " N. Ray-gun (wife of the drugstore truck-driving man)
I suspect that when it became clear the economy was tanking, and repelicans said 'let the banks fail', then Bush initiated the first bailout, Obama may have thought that there were significant divisions on the right and as a result may have been quite surprised by the solidarity and the push back from conservatives.
I think his major problem has been his quest for consensus, and what appears to be a need for pushback against repelican ideology from the general public in order to keep the dems in line - and the repelicans in check.
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osw IS the democrat party. its funded by dems for the purpose ofkeepng dems in power. dems. 0bama backs you, so does pelosi and bloomberg ( a dem , no matter what he says).
If you be against Obama you be a racist.
You've got to be kidding. They ARE the democrat party.
That is antithetical to Occupy. No?
OWS is about taking everyone down.
Vote for Ron PauI.
Pon small?
Can the Dallas Cowboys join the Cowboy cheerleaders? One makes all the money, and the other is just there for "show'. But, they are all owned by the same rich guy. So goes the Dems and OWS.
I hope they do!
It is logical. Republicans are the 1%ers. Democrats are for working people.
The cats out of the bag... Republicans and Democrats have been playing good cop bad cop with each other for a long time. They are one in the same, and they use their rhetoric to drown out all other voices. That's why no other parties can get a foot hold in the US. Just look at the split on issues... The right is against abortion but OK with capital punishment. The left fights for free speech, but wants to take away the right to own guns. The conflicting positions go on and on. The bottom line is both sides are driven by big money to protect big money.
B A L O N E Y !!!
Those tired old cliches are believed only by people hired to work on Obama's reelection campaign.
Obama BETRAYED the American people, his credibility is NIL, we will NEVER believe him again.
Obama failed to follow through on the mandate he won. He sold it to us and he squandered a short-lived majority in both houses. If he had used it the repubs would never have taken back congress, and we would have had a fighting chance to do something to ease the crisis.
None theless, on election day we have to vote for someone. So far I only see two candidates. Most important is taking congress away from republicans.
All serious alternatives to republican destruction of America are worth looking at.
Why are you so angry? You should be mad, not at me but at Republicans.
I'm not angry at YOU, but at what you are SAYING. You sound exactly like someone hired to work on Obama's re-election campaign.
that's funny
the dems have joined you, pelosi suppports you, 0bama backs you.
Well that is understandable, especially since they have been talking about the effects of repelican policy on the middle class for far longer than this movement has existed.
Go hide in a corner and cringe. Ultimately this movement is a complete repudiation of repelican ideological dogma like ray-gun-omics and deregulation.
bet you can't even say "global warming" without stuttering.
BWA haha
a typying dog, it shows.