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Forum Post: banned from chat for calling anarchism what it is

Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 28, 2011, 7:56 p.m. EST by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

as always, every time i ever go into chat the mods are abusive with their powers, and prove to be ignorant, stupid, pack psychology morons fighting as tools for their pet ideologies.

anarchism is moronity , it is the problem, it is an infantile non solution, and arguing for it is arguing against our own best interests as pwn dupes of the oligarchy.

theres an imposter about . And theres no accountability on this site, because the fucking mods are evil pricks who abuse their powers .

i'm with the little g. the imposter is using a capital G.




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[-] 2 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 12 years ago

Although you and I don't see eye to eye on everything, I am disappointed that you were banned from chat. You may have differing views on some things, but you are not disruptive, abusive or unreasonable.

Disappointed. But not surprised. This movement is becoming more authoritarian and capricious day by day.

[-] 1 points by QuietDay (59) 12 years ago

Which is exactly what would happen in an anarchist society. As though power is confined to corporations and governments and individuals are somehow immune. We need checks and balances to protect the marginalised and relatively powerless from those who exert power over others. Anarchy would benefit the socially and politically privileged as much as any other 'ism'.

[-] 2 points by mwagshol (120) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

All of the Occupy gatherings are anarchic in nature.. This horizontal structure allows all voices to be represented in attempts to reach consensus on challenging issues- OoooOOOooOoO Scary... I know. Maybe Halloween is getting to you a bit early?

This type of organization is working to produce solutions to the massive problems that all can agree are at hand, but first we need all voices to be heard- including yours. But get educated on the ideas of anarchy and stop being so scared to actually have a voice and go use it.

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 12 years ago

I am beginning to better understand anarchy by learning from OWS. It seems like a better way to do most community based things. However, you have a very tough uphill climb to get past the very powerful media establishment which caters to the ingrained nature of both Democratic and Republican parties and the education people have already received with regards to what they think anarchy is.
I admire your idealism, but I am afraid that you will never be able to get the truth out. Not everybody is open minded and intellectually curious.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

NO. They are not anarchic, they are democratic. if they were anarchic they would have been shut down days ago.

There is nothing useful, viable, or good about anarchy, and trying to redefine it or say it is existing or even can exist is ignorant.

There are two real options, some form of oligarchy or some kind of democracy. What you are calling anarchism is actually a mix of strong democratic systems behaviors and delphi process- a form of oligarchy. anarchism aside from everything else is PATENTLY IMPOSSIBLE, because some for of leadership always creates some kind of power structure.

don't tell me that the movement is anarchistic. there is no such fucking thing.

its nice cover story for infantile rebels without a clue to have their oligarchy just like republicanism and capitalism is a cover story for our government to have their form of oligarchy.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

You really need to do some reading and study a bit of history, you are completely brain washed by the corporate media. Anarchy is a political ideology of great historic importance,. and is a viable organisational model. Silly name calling, shows the level of debate you are looking for,. . learn to debate in a reasonable manner or keep getting banned. It really is quite simple.

Here is one link of MANY! http://anarchismtoday.org/

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

its hard to believe after the arguments presented anybody could still be here fronting for anarchism. I'm not brainwashed, i am completely aware of the assorted bits and pieces of slow evolution and distortion the movement has used to differentiate itself from anarchy. However. It still retains the underlying problem and fatal error which is simplicity and lack of care to the actual real depth of the assorted real problems. It is thus as i said, an infantile excuse for not bothering to read textbooks.

I am debating in a reasonable manner. The problem is, i have to put my foot down and stand up for the actual truth while zombies keep shuffling along with their shit ice cream and trying to cram it down the throats of the rest of us. Anarchism is not a solution, its part of the problem. Game theory, sociology, systems theory, political science all absolutely ream this into the dustbin of history. anybody whos taken up anarchism is fighting as a corporate ologarchs dupe for their own mental cages, no differently than democrats or republicans or libtertarians or socialists. All the isms. all of them. are not. TEXTBOOKS. Stop being an ideologue and thus part of the problem, drop the ism, and bother to learn what science has delivered on these topics. Not interested in cycling through anarchisms "i'm just so misunderstood" complex. No. I understand fine. YOU epic fail as does anyone attached to "anarchism" to grasp simple fundamental systemic reality.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

amazingly you make absolutely zero points,. in all that babble.

what is your gripe with with anarchy? is it the lack of hierarchy,. the egalitarian equality of the participants,. or the voluntary cooperation? If you do understand (not proven above) then you can posit a criticism. not a spew of nonsense.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

i have stated what my gripe with anarchy is. anarchy is a non solution, is part of the problem, is an infantile con scam given to us byt the oligarchs in order to mentally cage rebels without a clue, and the direct results of anarchy are disorganization and confusion. You saying i have made no points proves you are BSing. there is nothing egalitarian about anarchy, - they would like to imagine it so but what actually happens is a break down in order until bullies take over. there is also nothing voluntary about the cooperation in anarchy, there is absolute coercion.

the very same kinds of coercion we are protesting against.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

"...would have been shut down..." how?

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

how do you think? mass arrests. right now the pigs are arresting people without due cause or a good reason and releasing them in under 48 hours. Which more or less proves nobody should have been arrested in the first place. A violent mob gets prison time, its obviously completely different.

The police are prepared to handle a violent protest and that is ultimately what they want. Then they can crack down, send everyone to prison, and the game is over. What they can't handle is non violence- that throws the entire system of oppression a loop its not evolved to handle.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

No, the police love non-violence as well as respect toward what they sacrifice on our behalf each day. But, when resources get stretched and the focus becomes redirected from thefts, homicides, accidents, et. al to  attend to the needs of a movement, a cop might not be all to accommodating. Does this approve non-provoked violence, no. 

Funny how so many co-opted union first responders in Madison, Wisconsin and now, visa via OWS, they have become "boots on the ground for the one percent". Just another vantage point.

[-] 1 points by mwagshol (120) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

The point is that nobody, or very very few, are calling for anarchy to be the system, or lack there of, for our entire country.. An anarchic style of decision making based on consensus through working groups is, however, being used to bring about new ideas and possibilities that are being created at this very moment at the various Occupy gatherings. They have also brought about discussions between all type of people, spawning new ideas, and making new connections- like between me and you right now.

I never said the movement was pushing for ultimate anarchy or some other thing that seems so scary to you. Instead, there is a very well thought and organized consensus structure working to address the problems that most people would rather not think about in their ignorance is bliss mentality.

Have you been to an occupy gathering yet? Either way, why don't we work on some consensus right now- what are some problems and solutions you see this movement as being able to tackle?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

sorry. first, i just got tossed off the chat for confronting an anarchist who most certainly was saying "no government". Second. An anarchic style of decision making means everyone makes their own decisions and acts independently. consensus process is democracy- not anarchy. I am not scared. i am simply stating facts. there is no such thing as anarchy except in the minds of ignorant pawn dupe proles who are rebels without a clue. it does not exist, it can't exist, and it will never exist. Trying to say it does exist is nothing more than a pathetic reflection of the cuurent corrupted system which pretends capitalism and democracy while using both as a maks for oligarchy. these so called anarchists and the azzhole mods in the chat are not practicing anarchy, they are practicing pack psychology- which is a form of mob oligarchy.

i have 3 citations for occupying, and am well known as a core member of my local occupy.

I'd like to see us drop the moron rebel without a clue problem. i't like to see us fire the azzhole mods who are abusive with their mod powers out of the chat rooms. i'd like to see us implement actual RULES for the mods to follow so that they don't just do whatever they like. I'd like to see us get REAL about organization- because ultimately thats the REAL problem- all these fucking anarchists have caused everything to be a chaotic shit storm- which limits the life span of this movement to months and dooms it to failure.

I have put all of the real solutions on the table multiple times.


I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.








[-] 1 points by mwagshol (120) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

I agree that we need to do a much better job of building a voice of the 99% through inclusiveness of many viewpoints to discover singular expression of our multiplicity. But screaming off that anarchy is infantile is not a good way to work towards building consensus. It is also not true that anarchy and democratic decision making have to be completely separate. All I am pointing out is that this is how the occupy gatherings are organized, and people need to not be so scared of it and instead embrace having a voice in the consensus building process- and that includes those on the Left, the Right, the apathetic, the status quo, and most importantly the traditionally disenfranchised such as minorities, women, youth.

You need to get over the use of a word that is simply anti-hierarchical and is looking to be inclusive of many opinions in working towards consensus on where to go from here. You opinions are very valid as well, and I'm sure that the majority of Americans, in joining their voices together in working to find consensus would be very happy to return to a style of government similar to our republic with a democractic tradition.. But the great thing about building consensus is we first have to hear many more voices that are traditional, radical, and moderate from across the political spectrum to truly gain our voice.

We can't be so closed minded to dismiss people or ideas right off the bat- we need reasoned and detailed arguments backed with facts and sources. Your wiki is a good start in that direction.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Really, its not my job to build consensus, its my job to stand up and against stupid evil insane bullshit.

somebody else can build consensus, i'm a genius aspie polymath not a community worker.

Anarchy? you are still thinking that anarchy exists or can exist? you apparently have a hard time with reading comprehension. Anarchy and democracy are mutually exclusive, the end. Anarchy can not exist, has never existed, and will never exist. Any meta entity claiming to run on anarchy actually runs on some form of ochliocracy.

We do not need to embrace the left or the right, we need to end the nonsense. Similarly, we need to stand up to stupid evil morons not allow them to talk BS to the public on our dime.

Anti hierarchy has a nice and easy name. Anti hierarchy. You see ? Sorry, being anti hierarchy and being anarchist are NOT the same.

I'm not closed minded. I have thousands of pages of anarchist materials, i know exactly what i am talking about, and i am not talking right off the bat.

The core problem with the movement is disorganization. thanks in no small part to anarchists. My wiki is a start in the right direction, fer sure, thanks for acknowledging that.

now heres the rub. the moment i hit enter this conversation vanishes because its been cloaked. So now we have adminatrolls compounding their crimes by covering up the evidence and covering over the complaint.

Is that how coalitions are formed? No. Every single move that these bastards take to shut me down and silence me alienates not only me, but the vast majority of people who want nothing to do with anarchism, and who are only here to support this assuming its got brains and some kind of moral center. the further proofs they get that there is no moral center, the more people get LOST from the coalition. And thats whats going on. Our chat azzhole adminatrolls are actually chasing away smart, thoughtful, intellectual peeps. and thats why the movement is actually losing participants.

[-] 1 points by mwagshol (120) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

okay so we can agree that anti-hierarchical consensus building is key and your wiki is an extension of that in the right direction. We need more movements in this direction and more inclusion of diverse people who represent this huge and varying country

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

sure. definitely agree with that. I even agree that in the long ru nwe need to diplomatically include people calling themselves anarchists and have even gone as far as to create a place on the wiki for anarchists to post position papers.

I'm all for all of that.

As a facilitator i understand we must give facility to everyone without bias. As a student of political science, game theory, systems theory, and formal logic, i am going to show up in the chat, notice an anarchist blibbering on- and confront it. If that in turn means i get banned for telling the truth, then thats a proof of corruption and stacked multiple fatal errors in leadership, and its time to unload a long bunch of rounds in the general direction of anarchism and the adminatrolls who have corrupted this movement.

Tomorrow morning i'll be done venting.

maybe by then some anarchist will have managed to get the position papers posted on the wiki so that we can move on to a more detailed analysis.

somehow, i doubt it, because ultimately all anarchists in my experience are ideological and intellectual cowards.


"Anarchism Position Papers

Anarchism Agreements

Anarchism Confrontation + Analysis

Anarchism Relevant Science

Anarchism Axiomatic Analysis

Anarchism Synthesis "

anarchism has some few good ideas even. thats what the agreements page is for.

[-] 1 points by mwagshol (120) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

This sounds good and is the type of constructive conversation we need more often. I'd like to help with your wiki when I have the chance. Also, I understand your desire to have a better forum for discussion. I'd suggest checking out themultitude.org in order to join more intelligent discussions and garner support for you wiki.

As an example I'd mention this thread as it is somewhat related to our conversation: http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=425

Edit: after going through the wiki, I think this is exactly the type of process we need to be working on. I'm going to help spread the word on themultitude as well as on various local occupy forums. Thank you for putting this together. Also, do you still think a new, better forum is needed with the many sub groups you mentioned in addition to this wiki or could we use a forum such as themultitude for this purpose?

[-] 2 points by democritis (13) 12 years ago

Absolutely, it makes no sense, like Nazism and Communism, it's a collectivist ideology, which appeals to the naive and has always been used as a tool of the authoritarian left and the right, so as to enable them to establish a totalitarian dictatorship. In that regard, they are just like the Democrats and the Republicans. Wasn't it George Bush who said 'a New World Order is coming...? Who else said that? Obama, Hillery, C, Soros, Bernanke, and of course Barkunin - and Karl Marx! Wake up America!!!!

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

yep. all of these infantile stupid pathetic isms. Yet you go into the chat and who has the power there? some fucktard admin whos sucking on some ism like a frigging binky.

this is the core problem with this movement. infantile jackasses with no conscience and too much power full of themselves and having a temper tantrum.

and they prove exactly the same problems they say they are against- power corrupts- they are corrupted absolutely- they are just as bad or worse than the pigs we are fighting.

in short, if this is a preview of the kind of society that we end up with following this movements course- its smarter to quit while we are ahead.

"raijin" as in raijin fukcing idiot. as in raging fukcing imbecile. raging fukcing abuse of power. raging fukcing rogue prick.

and hes not even the worst of them.

I;ve seen them boot people for nothing other than "so and so was being annoying."

what a bunch of azzholes.

we need to get off this site.









[-] 2 points by thomaspain (5) 12 years ago

If anarchy is Constitutionally limiting the powers of our politicians, I am all for it. If it is chaos without restraint, I am against it.

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

"no government" as if that is even possible, is what these morons are promoting. First off, that always leads to oligarchy and ochliocracy because when there are no rules the evil people just dominate and control others through violence.

second of all, because of this, people will always create rules to try to regulate things, so anarchy is patently impossible.

third off, the core point to be made is that the mods on the chat are stupid fucking pricks, who are abusive with their mod powers, who are using their positions to promote their stupid and idiotic ideologies, and who can;t manage to tell the difference between a troll and somebody whos been busting their ass for this movement from day one.

They have no integrity, they have no conscience, they are a problem, and they give us a bad face and a bad name.

[-] 1 points by metamind (3) 12 years ago

Every time they say "no politics" they are exercising their personal prejudice about what is politics. EVERYTHING about this is politics. MONEY is entirely political.

[-] 1 points by metamind (3) 12 years ago

I was banned from chat too. Every time a moderator CLEARS all messages from a user they are abusing their power. Nobody should be able to CLEAR message history under any circumstance.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

whoa... hmmm.... i think under circumstance of obnoxiously trolling maybe... uhm... extreme... whats needed is a moderation process.. which.. they don;t have...

[-] 1 points by WAT99P (9) 12 years ago

BANNED FROM FACEBOOK!!! Im having a problem logging onto Facebook. Seems odd that Facebook was used as a crucial tool in the middle east to organize people to stand up for their rights and overthrow their

dictators. Funny how now that protestors are gathering at Wall Street and around the world to demand Justice for plummitting the world economy into chaos that many people are having

trouble logging on to facebook...this same senario happened in Iran when people starting organizing against their government. Seems to me that Facebook has been taken over by the.01% to

prevent the 99% from organizing. The 99% must organize before Occupy Wall street becomes a faded memory... organize your groups around the world...elect leaders to stand together

world wide. DO NOT GIVE IN!!!... DO NOT GIVE UP!! It is time to take our countries back from the greedy and corrupt. For those of you who still have access to Facebook it is your

duty to spread the word.

Please post this on your facebook profile and forward this email.


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by hairlessOrphan (522) 12 years ago

I'm not entirely sure it's your ideas; I suspect it's more your utter lack of self-control. No offense, but even if you're right, "ignorant, stupid, pack psychology" is not how you engage people in conversation. At least, not if you actually want them to converse back.

Now, if you're just venting, that's fine. Call people names all you want. But then, expect banhammer.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

i don't think they want to piss me off level two, seeing as how this thread got uncloaked i'm guessing they realize they are the ones with the problem.

in qaballah, there are two oppositional balancing forces called severity and mercy. Some times, severity is needed. And i know how to open a can like almost nobody. I also have all the mercy in the world where that is appropriate.

Banhammer? Wiki hammer. Whos going to win long term?

they are better off letting me make the point and not being pricks the next time. And they know it, or they wouldn't have decloaked the thread after cloaking it.

[-] 1 points by hairlessOrphan (522) 12 years ago

Wait, before we go any further, I have to ask: is this about you or about Occupy? Really. I mean, which topic is taking priority for you, here?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

me? lol. seriously if i had any concern for me i'd be at the hot springs now and you never would have heard from me. I care for the occupy as a potential possible evolutionary movement, but ultimately, i couldn't give a rats ass beyond that either. My sole purpose for operating here or even existing for 20 years has been to save the humans. And if this is a chance to do that, then thats awesome. anarchism is one of the problems i face in bringing about real change, and whether you or other people understand that or recognize it, that is absolute and a zero sum infinite game.

With the survival of the human species hanging in the balance.

So ultimately, neither. I care about an evolutionary revolution and a paradigm shift, and anarchism rubs me the wrong way because it is merely one of the dead ends of the matrix and HOW the elites manage to get moron rebels without a clue to accidentally fight for their own entrapment.

[-] 1 points by wiserguy (1) 12 years ago

Anarchism simply means without ruler, for tens of thousands of years civilization lived in societies without government. The disparaging use of the term anarchy is a bastardization of the word over time by those in power as a means of discouraging people from governing themselves. It wasn’t until the rise of hierarchical societies that anarchist ideas were fomented, as a serious reaction to the coercive political institutions that evolved.

To suggest that society without a government will degenerate into chaos and that we would all revert to our crudest and cruelest condition is to somehow suggest that those in power have some type of redemptive and just powers. As we all know all governments are to a degree infected with baseness and corruption. Government as an extension of the state is about police powers and coercion. Government does not administer justice and freedom, it administers conformity; conformity stifles innovation and self expression, it rewords mediocrity.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

yeah. thats what you say. meanwhile, as soon as we stop paying attention to this argument there are the anarchists, calling for "No government". i'm all for no rulers. we have this other word for that. DEMOCRACY. Redefining the term in order to make it sound okay is another epic fail, and it does not make a convincing argument to try to change the meaning of the term after the term already has a meaning inside of political science- instead- it just proves again that anarchists are ignorant.

quite the opposite of what you claim, morons picking up the idea of anarchism do so because it pisses off their parents. Its ALWAYS meant exactly what it fucking means. Sorry, there is no merit and your idea that "o suggest that society without a government will degenerate into chaos and that we would all revert to our crudest and cruelest condition is to somehow suggest that those in power have some type of redemptive and just powers." is a total misnomer. there is no connection there at all between a and b. I neve rsaid that there is anything redemptive about the people in power and that has nothing to do with anything. its a straw man argument, and its stupid. What our government as is actually DOES and what a dEMOCRATIC government would actually DO are two different things. Agreed our government is corrupt. That does not mean you can throw out the very idea of social order, and pathetically, its impossible to achieve such because people will always end up either using rules or coercive force.

Anarchists don't use anarchy- they use social violence and terrorist coercion. thus they are attempting oligarchy- not anarchy. the irony of this once you step out of the mental cage is enormous.

quit blibbering inane anarchism memes and bother to understand the fatal problem. anarchy can't exist because any group of humans will find some way to create some form of social order. The azzholes we are calling anarchists because they use that word to describe themselves are not anarchists- they are closed clique oligarchs, running a mini society of their own based on a new implicit social order, more appropriately termed MORONREBELSWITHOUTAFUCKINGCLUE. (ism) {tm}

[-] 1 points by thomaspain (5) 12 years ago

If anarchy is Constitutionally limiting the powers of our politicians, I am all for it. If it is chaos without restraint, I am against it.

[-] 1 points by Loekei (5) from Absecon, NJ 12 years ago

well stated.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 12 years ago

What about you fucking lay off the ableism and all the other crap.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

what exactly is able ism? thats a new one on me. wikipedia explains. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableism

so what are you trying to tell me that the mods should be given latitude because they have some kind of disability? what are you trying to say?

either they are competent to run a chat without bias or they are not. They are not.


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

yeah, no. The GAs are trying to implement direct democracy and consensus process. Anarchism is a problem child and a problem which the organizers face. I'm not barking up any wrong tree, i'm facing down corruption inside our ranks and sooner or later the worm turns my direction.

And i'm not going to get "with the program", and if i get banned thats going to look double bad because everyone knows whos side i am on and whats going on.

anarchism is a stupid, idiotic, moronic, imbecilic, impossible system, it has never existed, it can't exist, and anybody who says it is existing is covering up for some form of oligarchy they are participating in.


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

now you are making my point for me. Where its a small group of people pulling strings that oligarchy. Since that is in fact what is going on, this movement is oligarchic, not anarchic. Anarchy is an impossible system- in fact in systems theory its whats called a frozen system or an infinite entropy system. It can only exist in theory for 30 seconds or so until the crowd consciousness selects some kind of leadership and organization. The ONLY thing that can ameleorate that is democratic process, which OWS and other GAs are certainly TRYING... but mostly not fully succeeding at implementing. so. What form of government is the movement? oligarchy. What form of government are we protesting? oligarchy.

i don't know why i would bother to deny or affirm that any person or persons is somehow involved or behind the scenes since i don't know.

What i do know is that in any case, anarchism is not the answer, is not even possible, can not exist, and is thus an infantile and impossible idea.

Further, attempts to create anarchy only actually increase entropy and chaos, they don't stop there from being an oligarchy, they just cover up the hierarchy with noise.


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

yep. and that mouth peice is operated as far as anybody knows by "Jart" who is employed by god knows who anybodies guess.

but because of he noise to signal ratio, we can safely bet that the noise is an intended effect- part of the plan and part of the design. The last thing the dems want is an open source think tank. this site is a single forum and no wiki, for exactly that reason. If this was a legit grass roots movement it would have started with a wiki- not a long scrawl forum.

If it was a legit grass roots movement it would have at least provided 100 sub forums by now. The broken promise and failure to deliver and the continued absolute silence regarding the request for the wiki in essence prove the issue. Whoever paid for this forum to exist wanted a noise factory and a trollhatten- not a lucid social movement.


[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

right. sounds like reasonable guesses to me...

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 12 years ago

All young people entertain this desire for anarchy...

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

certainly not all.. but too many. while it is agreed the order we have is bad, no order is worse than bad order, and throwing the baby out with the bathwater is infantile and idiotic.

me getting booted from the chat for saying so proves that the mods are infantile and idiotic. but we already knew this, its just another proof in a long list of proofs that the mods are infantile and idiotic.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 12 years ago

I was born to challenge not only authority but all precept and that's just the way it is. So I think I myself have entertained this desire for anarchy... ten thousand years ago there was absolutely no such thing as law; it was survival of the fittest subject only to community censure. Something very beautiful and pure to be envisioned of a world like that.

So I think that just as many entertain thoughts of anarchy as fear it. But let's face it, it means theft in all forms, including rape... mindless brutality, alliances for the purpose of defense and pursuit... in short, a very brutal and barbaric world. And I'd probably be amongst the first to die.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

its impossible to fear something which is impossible. I don' t fear anarchy, i fear make beleive anarchy, which is all that could ever exist, because the bullies would just step into the power vaccuum.

About like the chat. Thats not anarchy. its oligarchy. its rule by a few pricks, who are in it for self promotion and ego trips and self aggrandizement.

some fucking idiot thought it would be anarchistic to let those people have power. nope. as soon as they got into power they created an oligarchy of adminatroll fucktards.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 12 years ago

So then beat them at their own game.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

what do you think this thread is? I've already won. Dozens of people have been alerted, and people are losing faith and trust in this site, and will move to someplace else where there is not patent abuse and fucktards running the show.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 12 years ago

Unwilling to stay and fight, huh? Ok, good luck to you.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Allow me a refinement in the definition of anarchy. I developed this in 2003 on the crimethink message board to deal with the compulsive obsessive focus on violent reaction to things non anarchical.----

Anarchy will be the chaos those of our current system might paint it, IF those of the anarchy do not know everything about needs that there is to know, or close to it. Accordingly, a peaceful anarchy can only come from an intensely educated society focusing on needs, which makes it a true culture.------

Were the folks banning, deleting etc. in the chat, those kind of people:) -

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

sorry, there is no such thing as a "peaceful anarchy." there is only real democracy, or some form of oligarchy. following any of the paths laid out by any form of anarchism only leads us instantly to some form of tribal war lord oligarchy.

in fact, whats going on in chat right now is anarchists are being allowed to exist as a face and make a trolling argument pro anarchy in the chat. Clearly NOT the face OWS wants to give to the world.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I agree, but do the mods know everything about needs? Does any anarchist? No. So you are correct. My bad:) -

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

no, they don't know anything about needs, they don't thus know anything about ethics, they thus are not capable of checking themselves, and are thus evil people for lack of knowledge.

thats of course the inherent problem of anarchy. anarchy = ignorance and chaos. only truth and knowledge and in particular of needs grants an understanding to empower real ethics. Without such, we will always end up with stupid evil pricks who rose to positions of power precisely because they were itching to be abusive and use domination against the masses.