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Forum Post: BAN all GUNS Now! No Other Way!!

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 12, 2013, 1:34 p.m. EST by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Anything but complete ban, is building a dike with a small hole.

Eventually we get flooded and shot!

TIME'S UP!!

Honey it's not working out.

I know we tried, but we tried and...

We tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and it's just not working. We have to break up. It's not you, it's me. I feel like maybe i haven't tried hard enough, but you keep shooting me down.

190 Comments

190 Comments


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[-] 2 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 1 year ago

Anyone ever think that we should ban guns to the pentagon? I doubt it.Repubs/Dems are not going to do that,They would rather have you pay for them.Oh thats right they can kill hundreds of thousands and no one here says shit.Bit grandpa paying taxes on his shoutgun gets lots of dogs barking.

[-] 2 points by TheTrollSlayer (347) from Kingsport, TN 1 year ago

No.

[-] 2 points by MoodDaddy (25) 1 year ago

There are two towns Aville and Bville.

In Aville all schools are in a gun free school zones. Anyone caught with a gun will be severely fined and serve a mandatory jail term. Gun free school zone signs are posted near each school.

In Bville all teachers carry guns and are trained to use them. Signs are posted near each school notifying the public that all teachers are armed and trained.

Which town do you think the insane suicidal gunman will chose go to with his illegal "banned" guns in order inflict his mayhem?

[-] 0 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

As a teacher I'd be more concerned about a careless colleague letting his or her weapon get into the hands of a student. Arming everyone isn't an answer. Besides part of the whole insane thing is you don't react the way the rest of the world does.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

I agree with you. Teachers should not be armed in the classroom. I’m very pro-gun rights and don’t think any new rules will make a difference. But that aside, teachers should not carry guns around students. Not grade school, high school or anywhere on school property or around students.

However, Sadly, armed personnel of some type should be in schools. I’m not sure, but I think some urban schools already have armed guards. I think teachers and students are far more at risk from unstable or criminal students than anything else.

It’s a sad state of affairs. In my wildest dreams I never thought we’d see the day cops needed to be in schools. Unfortunately it’s the reality of the world we now live in.

[-] 0 points by ChemLady (576) 1 year ago

Yes I agree, seems to be a need for trained personal to guard schools.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Strawman Argument.

In a world void of perfection we strive for the best we can do.

Diminish the odds of firearm access, diminish the odds of mayhem.

We have 50% of the worlds firearms, only 5% of the worlds population and 99% or the worlds Hillybilly Taliban and RW hate&lie propaganda, the formula is not working for Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

[-] 0 points by MoodDaddy (25) 1 year ago

If a nut job wants to kill innocent people he will find a way.

The Bath School disaster is the historical name of the violent attacks perpetrated by Andrew Kehoe on May 18, 1927 in Bath Township, Michigan that killed 38 elementary school children and six adults, and injured at least 58 other people.

Kehoe first killed his wife, fire-bombed his farm and set off a major explosion in the Bath Consolidated School, before committing suicide by detonating a final explosion in his truck.

It is the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.

There were no guns involved.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

With all the hoopla over the inauguration, there was a chance that the momentum for gun control would dissipate. But don’t worry—the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre will get it going again! Last night Wayne LaPierre accused Obama of demonizing gun owners. With your ads attacking the President’s daughters, you’re doing a better job of demonizing gun owners, Wayne.

Embarrassingly, Wayne’s speech came on the same day there was a gunfight at a Texas college campus. But if he’s going to wait for a day when there is no gun violence, he’s never going to get to speak. It turns out the shooting at the campus in Texas wasn’t a mass killing. It was an argument that escalated into a gunfight... or what’s going to happen several times a day everywhere if the NRA gets their way. In some ways this is scarier than a mass shooting—this is the kind of thing that the NRA proposes as a solution for mass shootings! The reaction to this fiasco was quick—Texas Republicans are calling for more guns! That way if an argument escalates into gunfire, bystanders can choose sides and turn it into a regular shootout. I’m sorry, but for most Americans, the Gunfight at the OK Corral was NOT an example of conflict resolution.

Congressman Ted Yoho (R-FL), a Tea Party freshman says that citizens should have the same weapons as the military. That way we’re safe from “tyranny”... and totally subject to mob rule. Yoho claims the Second Amendment says that “the militia had the same equipment as the military to protect them against the tyrannical government.” No, they had the same equipment because back in the 1700’s, that’s all the equipment that they had.

NRA board member Ted Nugent is comparing President Obama to King George III and threatening another American Revolution. Ted doesn’t have a powdered wig, but he does seem to have a powdered brain. Ted says Obama is “attempting to re-implement the tyranny of King George that we escaped from in 1776.” It’s odd that we managed to overthrow tyranny in the years BEFORE we had a Second Amendment. He then said “If you want another Concord Bridge, I’ve got some buddies.” Ted, if you and your buddies were restricted to the kind of weapons available to the people on the Concord Bridge, we’d all feel a lot better.

Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/journal.html?feed=380723&article=10722278#ixzz2IqRcG5CF

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Suspect-charged-in-Lone-Star-College-shooting-4214123.php

[-] 2 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

No offense, my friend, but even assuming that your proposed solution is the correct one, none of us will live long enough to see it happen. What real-world solutions have you to offer, or are you merely raging at the machine?

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

What are you talking about? The Rapture?

[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

Not the rapture -- that came and went twice last year, and we barely noticed it. Not the end of the Mayan calendar either. That died with a whimper. I'm talking the real world, and the simple fact is there's never going to be a total ban on guns in this country, ever. They're too imbedded in the culture, and too many people like having them. Maybe that's good, maybe it's bad, that that's the plain fact.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

So was slavery, denying women and minorities civil rights, and smoking in theaters.

UK gun laws, the Wild West is long gone.

[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

Well, we'll just have to wait and see. Want to place a small wager on what happens in say, the next five years? I bet on me.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The Secret History of Guns

The Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership—and regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers—the true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there’s no resolution in sight.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You are forgetting what country you live in.

Banning all the cocaine and heroin hasnt worked. This country has a strong desire for it, and our gov is the world leader in trafficing.

Banning all guns will do the same. Criminalize those that want one for decent reasons, and with our desire for them here, combined with the fact that our gov is the world leader in weapons and war, you arent going to get rid of em all.

The war on drugs is a miserable failure. So is the war on poverty. And so is the war on terror.

The war on guns will be the same.

We can debate the regulations and the buying process or even an outright ban. Just realize, that when the governing body is dealing them all over to whoever, that you arent going to get the results you want.

Will it decrease murders? Maybe. Will it decrease crime? Maybe.

Or as the other attempts of our "good hearted" government has shown, they could be simply making a messy situation that much more messier.

Until the governing body's massive trafficking is addressed, it will not matter. You cannot expect a body that traffics something to keep it from slipping out. And they love to let that slip out.

[-] 2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

It's all about "violent careless people"

Same thing applies to drunk driving, drugs, smoking, alchol abuse - the list goes on and on.

It is a "violent careless society" that is the problem - cure that and all the other "ills" will go away.

People then can drive vehicles without worrying about being killed by a drunk driver, people can then be safe knowing that a druggie won't mug them and people will be less concerned about firearms ownership because society has taken the necessary steps to "stop the violence".

Cure these "ills" and we as a society will be able to live in a more "secure world" without having to worry about someone wanting to harm us.

The big question is - "how do we go about doing this"?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The masses are run by the media.

Control the media and you control the conversation.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Probably the most rational post on this thread.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the msm is arm of the obama administration.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

MSM is owned by the 1% and so is Fox Lies. MSM is covert -, Fox is overt -, propaganda in the 1% class war waged against the 99%! RW 24/365 Hate&Lie Radio is WMD of 1%-GOP.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

if you think its not the same arm that harbored Bush you are naive

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the msm relentlessly attacked bush,..........they cover up fast and furious, and the murders of 4 americans in benghazi for obama.

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Get out of all the wars the people will not give up their guns and that is that.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

wanna bet? libertarains are the biggest fake tough guys on the planet. bunch of pussies.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Legal and regulated, well-regulated and taxed!

[-] 2 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

No...No

[-] -2 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It's over! That's it!

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

No...no

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Why not?

It's either that or ban economic inequality.

So make a "choice".

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Banning guns will not stop violence. It will not bring an end to the evil that men are capable of committing. It will only take away a freedom and a right.
Ban economic inequality? What is that?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Claims of SUPER intelligence on the subject of guns.

Claims of absolute ignorance of economic inequality.

And you wonder why you should likely NOT be allowed to own a gun, without good reason?

Perhaps an intelligence test along with testing for lead exposure are in order?

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

True story. Where I live coyotes and rattlesnakes are a problem. This afternoon a neighbor lady from down the road called me and asked if she could borrow my shotgun. She said two coyotes were chasing her cats. Under your rules she’s have to chase them down with a stick. Isn’t that kinda dumb?

Also, when I go out on my property I always carry a .38 revolver loaded with shot shells for rattle snakes. Do you really expect me to play catch and release?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Where did I make that rule?

Show me.

All you did was continue to show your ignorance of economic inequality.

Quoting anecdotal stories really doesn't say much in this case, except that in YOUR world she that stick may be all she has left and she'd be eating the cat food.

In retrospect. You need to read this.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

“All you did was continue to show your ignorance of economic inequality”

?? Economic inequality?. Hasn’t been brought in this discussion. I certainly haven’t mentioned it. Possible you responded to the wrong post? Anti-gun mania is my topic.

Anyway, Unless I have grossly misunderstood all your posts. You want ALL guns removed. My anecdote was intended to show there are valid reasons for owning guns.

You really need to calm down and think rationally, You know as well as I that guns aren’t going away in the foreseeable future. Even if a few new gun restrictions get passed (and that’s still undecided), it won’t make any difference at all. Surely even you can see that.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm quite calm.

It's my belief that you need to be checked for lead poisoning.

You keep forgetting.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

HA! Well, you could be right about lead poisoning. Since I reload my own ammo and shoot often, I am around lead a lot.

Doesn't change the fact we will not give up our guns; and there's nothing you can do about it except pass a couple of minor restrictions.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I think you should ALL be checked.

It affects your thinking and behavior in a negative manner.

You can look it up. It's said to have contributed to the fall of the Roman empire.

When you shoot, you ingest it through your lungs.

Anyone with lead poisoning shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a gun.

[-] -2 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Hell, I'm old and won't live too much longer anyway, so what's a little lead.

Here's a link to cheer you up.

http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-applied-to-buy-more-than-55-million-guns-in-the-last-two-months-2013-1

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Perhaps they too are so poisoned by lead exposure that when you say 6 gun, they think that's means you can shoot six of 'em at once.

[-] -2 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

I wish I could shoot six guns at once. Wow, wouldn't that be neat. But my Polytech AK47 can shoot as fast as six guns. Does that count?

Good night all.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Against what?

A Bradley?

An MX?

I'll bet you're a BIG believer in the MAD doctrine.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sure your proper name is not littletoe? Just sayin - U seem awful - small.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Actually I’m a pretty big guy, over six foot. Can’t think of a good comeback right now (maybe it lead poisoning). I’ll think of something over dinner. Venison chili on a cold night. Yum.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Big on the outside but small inside? Hey?

Does your head rattle if you shake it?

[-] -2 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

I don't know. Can't hear anything over the voices. And the voices are telling me it's time for bed, but I have to set my guns out first so I can acces then quickly if the coyotes do a home invasion.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Economic inequality has as many definitions as "is". Let's hear yours.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm done with your shit.

You can play stupid all you want, but I'm not buying it.

Stop lying.

There has been NOTHING said in defense of gun fetishists that makes any sense.

They must be suffering from lead poisoning.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Then stop killing them in the name of these United States. Freedom causes no harm and individual gun owners can choose to be however they are As a country We are creating far more to come as long as soldiers are hurting innocents anywhere.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Factcheck.org 12/20/12.

The Daily Beast "Not Just Sandy Hook: China's Terrifying Knife Attacks" by Melinda Liu 12/15/12

Innocents die every day as well as the guilty. It is a risk just to walk out the fron door. Your intentions are noble, but a gun ban will not pass.
Cut your losses. Save lobbyist money and Legislature time and increase safety measures at school. And, here is an idea about economic inequality: In a day when Congress keeps kicking the budget can down the road. Where there has not been a budget passed in 4 years. Where there is a $1 trillion budget deficit, year after year. Where all the secret talks and negotiations resulted in a fiscal cliff joke at literally 5 minutes before midnight. Wouldn't be a colossal waste of economic resources to fight for a sure epic failure in gun control?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What part of DONE with your endless shit are you misunderstanding?

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

LOL.

[-] 2 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

Good luck with that. 2/3 of the house and senate, then 3/4 of the states.

What you want and what you dream of vice what's actually plausible are two different things. You keep wanting. That'll go real far.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago

Actually, you wouldn't need that. Theoretically, you could sue the government for damages caused by allowing guns and force the issue.

[-] 0 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

uh huh. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago

It's true. There have been several cases brought to trial against the government. Are you chicken?

[-] -1 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

Oh?

Give me the case citations so I can look them up and read the opinion rendered and outcome.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago
[-] -1 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

Oh, you are priceless. In other words, you're all talk and no hat. I figured as much.

Keep on with that dream, chickenshit.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I'm right!

[-] 1 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

Keep up that chanting on an internet forum.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

You aren't.

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the 2nd amendment simply assures that each citzen have the tools necessary to defend their live, family or property from the agression , whether from an individual or the govt.

[-] -2 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It's not you, it's me. The shooting just gets me down!

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Being right has nothing to do with it. You don’t have the votes in congress; and more importantly you don’t have the public support. That’s reality. Deal with it.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Actually, we do! Congressional Bravery and engaged electorate, are questionable.

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

? This went over my head. If your saying you have the votes in congress to pass much anti-gun legislation, then you’re wrong. I predict the worst that happen is a ban on semi-auto rifles, ten round mag limit and background checks on all gun sales. That’s the worst case scenario. Probably won’t be that bad though.

As far as outlawing or confiscating all privately owned guns. There is little or no chance of that ever happening.

Also consider there are tens of millions of AR’s, AK’s and hi cap pistols that will be grandfathered , and not covered by any new laws.

Time for you to face reality. We will not ever give up our guns, not ever.

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

I read the link. But this doesn’t address the title of this thread. According to you, anything less than taking all guns is unacceptable. So with your frame of mind, are you surprised gun owners are spooked and defiant? Are you surprised we don’t believe people when they say they just want reasonable gun restrictions?

Generally I’m at the other end of the spectrum from you. I don’t think ANY new gun laws will reduce ANY gun crime. However, If it’ll make you feel better I’ll relent on more/better background checks, and add mentally unstable people to the list. But with AR’s and AK’s representing about 2% of all gun crimes I won’t give in.

I think you’re sincere on thinking no guns means less violence. But it’s simply not true.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The Secret History of Guns

The Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership—and regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers—the true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there’s no resolution in sight.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/

[-] -2 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Thanks for the history lesson. But the fact is the SCOTUS has ruled twice private citizens have the right to own guns under the 2nd Amendment.

In case you haven’t noticed, Dianne Feinstein and Barack Obama are the greatest sellers of guns in the history of the world. The gun manufactures should pay them a commission.

If you read my previous link you would have noticed that in the past two months the US has had 5.5 million background checks to buy guns. And that does not include private sales, which is estimated to 40% of all gun sales. I read that that’s more than ALL the guns in Canada. I also recently read there are more privately owned guns in America than the combined armies of China and India.

There are an estimated 300 – 350 million privately owned guns in America; and estimated 85 million gun owners. I doubt they’re all the dumb hillbillies you want them to be.

What you need to understand, what you refuse to acknowledge, is that guns aren’t going away, ever. It would be better for you mental health to grasp that fact and move on.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Every nation is 9 meals away from mass chaos.

This nation is fully dependent on huge multinational corporations shipping that food over thousand miles.

This nation is going to experience a huge hiccup when that system gets fucked.

[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

I think you put too much faith in human beings....3 meals might be more accurate.

It's a good thing that terminator genes are making their way into the market...even if we wanted to grow our own food - after a season we're f'd.

[-] 1 points by Cryspen (4) from Bentonville, AR 1 year ago

Hey city boy people here do grow their own food, and we kill animals and eat them too. We need stricter regulation and more power to control our government.

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Yeah i grow my own food too....was taking a shot at Monsanto's terminator genes that cause crops to produce sterile seeds to force everyone back to the company for seeds the following year.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

But guns, lots of ammo, learn to live off the grid. Doom is upon us.

Sorry for the drama, couldn't help myself.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

The World is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round, and it has thrills and chills and is very brightly colored, and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they've begun to question, 'Is this real, or is this just a ride?', and other people have remembered, and they've come back to us and they say 'Hey, don't worry. Don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride.' and we KILL THOSE PEOPLE. "Shut him up! We have alot invested in this ride! SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account, and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that. You ever noticed that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because ... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear wants you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride: Take all that money we spent on weapons and defense each year and instead spend it feeding, clothing, and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and WE CAN EXPLORE SPACE, TOGETHER, BOTH INNER AND OUTER, forever ... in peace.--------Bill Hicks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

That's a pretty profound statement; and I agree with it. I would say a hiccup is a major understatement.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

No. Here's the truth.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Sorry Shooz. You can't have my gun. Go buy your own. I normally recommend revolvers for new shooters..

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Here's what I said.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Jeez, I read it all four or five times you posted it. So, allow me to approach it from another angle. You may get lucky and get the AR’s, AK.s and high cap pistols from the more hard core gun owners. But when you try to take the gun from the young lady who’s worried about being raped, the little old lady who keeps a .38 on her night stand because she live in a bad area and the store owner who’s afraid of being robbed; you will meet major resistance.

Whether you like it or not people will not give up their ability to protect themselves. Surely you can understand that?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

The World is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round, and it has thrills and chills and is very brightly colored, and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they've begun to question, 'Is this real, or is this just a ride?', and other people have remembered, and they've come back to us and they say 'Hey, don't worry. Don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride.' and we KILL THOSE PEOPLE. "Shut him up! We have alot invested in this ride! SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account, and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that. You ever noticed that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because ... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear wants you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride: Take all that money we spent on weapons and defense each year and instead spend it feeding, clothing, and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and WE CAN EXPLORE SPACE, TOGETHER, BOTH INNER AND OUTER, forever ... in peace.--------Bill Hicks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Paragraphs are our friend. I’m sincerely not trying to be rude, but this is gibberish. Just a long winded way of saying Peace and Love.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

well you still get the asshole of the day award. trying or not.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

The utopia you seek doesn’t exist. Never has, never will. Human kind has many good qualities, love, compassion, generosity and so on. We also inherently have hate, greed, selfishness and so on. My point being it is naive to think the peoples of the earth will ever live in peace and harmony. Peace and love is just another name for prosperity.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

people like you will never get it until you experience it.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Experience it? Not sure I get your drift. But in my almost seventy years on this earth I’ve experienced probably much more than you. I have lived in dirt poor poverty, I have seen war up close and personal, I worked my through college, been unemployed and broke, been married for forty-four years, raised three children who are responsible adults and worked almost thirty years in mid-level management in the high tech industry.

Now days I’m comfortably retired, still happily married and enjoying the grandkids. I’m not rich, but still probably much better off than a lot of people.

So, I apologize if you think I’m wrong in not agreeing with your, what I consider naive, ideas. I’m going to out on a limb and assume you are young and somewhat inexperienced in the world. I think it normal for young people to be more idealistic. But most eventually grow out of it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Again : Your ideas are defeatist. Basically it sounds like your saying if I ( you ) had to live through this shit - then so should you ( everyone else ).

What am I doing about it? Welllllll . . I am trying to present better alternatives for people to consider - and then - perhaps support.


[-] 0 points by bigjoe (10) 3 minutes ago

You probably will have to live through "this shit", and I suppect it'll be worse than what I went through. At least I had a opportunitis and a real chance of making it. I doubt the same level of opportunity will be there in the future.

You know, the problem as I see it is we all support the constitution, but only when it supports our social ideology, we all support free speech, as long as it’s politically correct enough. The land of opportunity is now the land of hand-outs.

The hate between liberals and conservatives is so great no reasonable discussion is possible; and the shrillness of the hate grow worse every day. Do you not see that, and are not part of it? Do you not understand if we are to accomplish anything we will have to talk to each other> What good is it to just say “fuck you” to those who disagree with you.

I don’t know the answer, but I fear we will not come together until it’s too late. Our nation may very well be on its last legs.

I been on this forum only a short time. My observation it’s filled with hate. The few who attempt to look at reality and come up with practical solution are quickly drowned out by the voices of hate. Do you not see that? What are you going to do about it? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Your ideas are defeatist. Basically it sounds like your saying if I ( you ) had to live through this shit - then so should you ( everyone else ).

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

You probably will have to live through "this shit", and I suppect it'll be worse than what I went through. At least I had a opportunitis and a real chance of making it. I doubt the same level of opportunity will be there in the future.

You know, the problem as I see it is we all support the constitution, but only when it supports our social ideology, we all support free speech, as long as it’s politically correct enough. The land of opportunity is now the land of hand-outs.

The hate between liberals and conservatives is so great no reasonable discussion is possible; and the shrillness of the hate grow worse every day. Do you not see that, and are not part of it? Do you not understand if we are to accomplish anything we will have to talk to each other> What good is it to just say “fuck you” to those who disagree with you.

I don’t know the answer, but I fear we will not come together until it’s too late. Our nation may very well be on its last legs.

I been on this forum only a short time. My observation it’s filled with hate. The few who attempt to look at reality and come up with practical solution are quickly drowned out by the voices of hate. Do you not see that? What are you going to do about it?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Hey - bigtoe - you have to work for it to get it - Continuous Process Improvement = Utopia?

[-] -2 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

AW DK, you live in a dream world, and I suspect you know it. Dreaming of a better world and working toward that goal is commendable. But to ignore the realities of the world will set you up for disappointment. The only place your world exists in inside a gated community with a good HOA.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

"My purpose here is to spread the truth and hopefully save a few souls."

Then you need to spear the word.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

Oh, and you need to stop lying.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Who is ignoring the world we live in today?

You need to go to your basement and hide under the stairs. I mean if you are not gonna join the continuous process improvement of our society/world.

What is your purpose to being here ( on this forum or in this world ) ? To spur everyone on into depression apathy and surrender? If you can not be positive and look for ways to improve our world for ALL - Then You Should Just Go Away.

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

My purpose here is to spread the truth and hopefully save a few souls.

Actually, I’m here for pretty much the same reason as most other people, for entertainment. Just something to do on a cold winter day. Does that differ much from why you’re here?

But I’m starting to get cabin fever, maybe put on a coat and go for a walk along the creek behind my house. But I’ll take my pistol since a neighbor down the road said she saw a couple of coyotes yesterday.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Keep reading it until you get it.

You're "angles" don't matter.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The Secret History of Guns

The Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership—and regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers—the true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there’s no resolution in sight.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

7 Steps Washington Can Take to End Gun Violence Jan 14, 2013 | MikeBloomberg.com

Every day, 33 Americans are murdered with guns, a number that exceeds the 26 killed in the Newtown shooting one month ago. During President Obama's second term in office, there will be approximately 48,000 Americans killed with guns. As a nation, we must finally say enough is enough.

This morning at the Johns Hopkins University Summit on Reducing Gun Violence, Mayor Bloomberg outlined seven steps Washington can take to reduce gun violence.

The first three steps must be passed by Congress:

http://www.mikebloomberg.com/index.cfm?objectid=3B0AE8A2-C29C-7CA2-FED6DC868C4B0CA0

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

bloomberg has armed guards

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

http://americansforresponsiblesolutions.org/
Gabby Gifford's new anti-NRA group

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Spread the word!

We'll let the gun addicts open well-regulated gun clubs and parks, but no guns off the premises. UK gun laws, UK health care!

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5844) 1 year ago

Simply advocate enforcing the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment and the pro-gun folks will go crazy. They want free access to instruments exclusively designed for the sole purpose of inflicting death but they reject having the patriotic responsibility of securing the freedom of their state by participation in a well regulated state militia. That, in itself, shows them to be irresponsible and inappropriate for bearing arms. Start talking about mandatory state militia enlistment for all gun owners and the true nature of their unpatriotic, irresponsible, desires will bubble up for everyone to see.

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." -George Bernard Shaw

http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/#comment-520061

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21296) 1 year ago

Good post. I'm tired of all this gun nonsense, but you make a very interesting and valid point there.

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Sorry, but the SCOTUS has already ruled twice private citizens can own guns, protected by the 2nd Amendment.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5844) 1 year ago

They've ruled on corporations being persons with freedom of speech but that doesn't stop people from seeking to have that ruling legally overturned due to the unintended use of the 1st Amendment's application to corporations. It would be no different in the discussion for the enforcement of the 2nd Amendment's intended purpose.

[-] 1 points by jago25 (1) 1 year ago

I'm in the UK. We still have guns. Worked out alright for Switzerland. USA has a reputation though

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Time for the US to change, progress.

Gun politics in the United Kingdom From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the United Kingdom firearms are tightly controlled by law, and while there is opposition to existing legislation from shooting organisations,[citation needed] there is little wider political debate, and public opinion favours stronger control. The British Shooting Sports Council now believes that the law needs to be consolidated but it does not call for a review.

The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 (over 40 times higher) and to Germany's 0.21 (3 times higher)

[-] 0 points by Cryspen (4) from Bentonville, AR 1 year ago

Ok sounds good on paper but what happens to things in the US that are illegal? We get them from mexico...cartels...yep i really wanna put more money in their hands. Just like drugs- anyone can still get them-no regulation.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Perfection STILL does not exist!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Continuous Process Improvement - we may never get there "perfection" - but why not try - Hey?

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

Obviously the mental hygiene of the nation has been neglected. The proposition to disarm 100 million legal gun owners because a dozen mental cases have shot dozens of victims is not the answer.

The Shock Doctrine would dupe ordinary citizens into voluntarily disarming themselves while 12 million illegal aliens are already acknowledged to be here in this country. Anyone think illegal aliens will obey gun laws?

The US Government has made huge miscalculations in the name of political correctness. Americans may wake up one day to find that English has been replaced as the mother tongue of the United States. If and when that happens will anybody care?

[-] 1 points by Cryspen (4) from Bentonville, AR 1 year ago

"Illegal aliens" hey man thats a racial slur. Undocumented workers would be a better term to describe these immigrants. I would say that hispanics where I live dont break gun laws but break identity fraud so they can work.

[-] 1 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

It's not racial. The real problem is back home in their native country isn't? The rule of law is supposed to be as important as going to work if not more so. Breaking the law to enter country illegally to work is really disrespectful when it has happened over 12 million times. It's not only about hispanics. It's not about race. It's about national character.

Illegal immigration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

read above

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

You want to blame it on Latinos? Really?

[-] 3 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm. There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. Just over half of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. Of the 30,470 firearm-related deaths in the United States in 2010, 19,392 (63.6%) were suicide deaths, and 11,078 (36.4%) homicide deaths.

Wikipedia Gun Violence in USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

In 1979 there were over 51 thousand traffics deaths in the USA. In 1988 there were over 47 thousand traffic deaths in this country. In 2011 there were over 32 traffic thousand deaths. Did anyone declare the need to ban all or any motor vehicles in 1979 or 1988 or 2011? Shall we ban all motor vehicles and return to horse and buggy and bicycles? That is not going to happen.

Wikipedia Traffic Deaths in USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

Isn't mental hygiene improvement the obvious the issue here?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The (R)epelican't took that away decades ago.

It's a little late considering they have now successfully run some for high office.

So no.

Here read this, until you understand it.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 1 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

Not so fast. Conscientious Americans should not be so easily duped into disarming voluntarily because of public outcry over the slaughter of 26 innocent Americans in Newtown December 22, 2012 while the American government has only shown the least interest in investigating the slaughter of 3000 innocent human beings in New York City on September 11, 2001!

Confronting the 911 Evidence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXNEslOqBp8

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yes they did.

It was mysterious magnetic forces.

It still doesn't negate the truth in this statement.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

Have you ever heard of Cromwell, Connecticut? Founded in 1650 and named after Oliver Cromwell.

Do you know about the English Revolution? Cromwell was the Lord Protector of Commonwealth of England.

Oliver Cromwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv-i7pJAIUw

In understanding the government’s response to 911 terror attacks can any American trust the US government is acting in the best interest of American citizens? What more evidence do we need? The Constitution gave us the right to bear arms and it is the duty of every American to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Confronting the 911 Evidence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXNEslOqBp8

Another Explanation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUFHjk0i2L4

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Some of us can't let go of the Alex Jones part.

I figure that's a distraction from the actual tyranny that's being institutionalized in States like Michigan.

For all his bullshit about tyranny, Terrible Teddy hasn't said a word about the real thing, nor have you

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

While we are debating the immediate need to ban all guns, forces in government are guaranteeing a future of more mayhem and mental illness.

Rev. Rita Nakashima Brock awaited her instructions at a vast Washington rally against the Iraq war. The protest march, numbering more than 100,000, was the latest and among the largest events in her nearly 40 years of pacifist activism.

The spiritual wounds of warriors, seeking theological answers to the condition among veterans called “moral injury.” In her current position at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, she has begun the first program in the nation to develop a treatment that she terms “soul repair.”

Moral injury might best be defined as an affliction of the soul, as distinct from a specific mental health condition like post-traumatic stress disorder. It arises, to speak in a very broad way, from the way a combatant’s actions in war seem to violate and thus undermine the most deeply held moral beliefs.

Ms. Brock did not formulate the concept of moral injury, which is attributed to the clinical psychiatrist Jonathan Shay. In books like “Achilles in Vietnam,” Dr. Shay has traced moral injury back as far as the Trojan War. But for Ms. Brock and her colleagues, the kind of counterinsurgency wars America has fought in Iraq and Afghanistan has left soldiers uniquely vulnerable to moral injury.

Tending to Veterans’ Afflictions of the Soul

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/12/us/12religion.html?ref=mentalhealthanddisorders&_r=0

If there were an epidemic of mental illness that causes .01% of the afflicted to commit manslaughter should legislation be crafted and enforced to limit the availability of firearms and ammunition for 50% of the popultion?

Panetta Lifts Ban on Women in Combat

Senior defense officials say Pentagon chief Leon Panetta is removing the military's ban on women serving in combat, opening hundreds of thousands of front-line positions and potentially elite commando jobs after more than a decade at war.

The groundbreaking move recommended by the Joint Chiefs of Staff overturns a 1994 rule prohibiting women from being assigned to smaller ground combat units. Panetta's decision gives the military services until January 2016 to seek special exceptions if they believe any positions must remain closed to women.

A senior military official says the services will develop plans for allowing women to seek the combat positions. Some jobs may open as soon as this year. Assessments for others, such as special operations forces, including Navy SEALs and the Army's Delta Force, may take longer.

This is a formula for women in combat to become as mentally disturbed if not more mentally disturbed than their male counterparts. Does the VA take good care of the Wounded Warriors?

Considering that 9-11 attacks has been categorized as a false-flag operation that gave the excuse for pre-emptive wars that Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Afghanistan, Taliban and Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with and is bringing home a harvest of disabled veterans trained to kill civilians.

Human timebombs embedded in the civilian population is a call for more mental health facilities and very broad - far-reaching policy for finding and treating everybody who needs help.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

This is a direct result of policies began under Reagan that cut mental health care around the nation. A purging of healthcare benefits and research that continues under (R)epelican't regimes to this day..

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26867) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Just exactly -who- is being disarmed? Go back to your hide-y hole.

[-] 2 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

New York just passed tougher gun control legislation though violent crime in New York has been on the decline. New York has not done enough for the millions of New Yorkers with mental conditions. New York suffers most from 911 WTC Collapse and hasn't taken the US Government to task for its role in the terrorist attacks.

There is greater danger in a government that will cover up the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians than with a mentally unbalanced individual with a history of mental illness who may be dangerous.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 1 year ago

This is my weapon,This is my gun.Is it the fun one you want to ban?

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Your brain!

[-] 0 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Yeah! All power to the 1%! If only they are armed we will all be safe!

Dumbass....

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

They make sure we have guns so that we shoot each other for them.

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Well you are partly right. There's no other way you one-world fascists types will ever take over.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago

You mean the "Novus Ordo Seclorum" types?

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Yes. Most all of these gunhate nuts are NWOers.

[-] 0 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago

oh i don't think so. You know guns don't protect freedom, people do....

[-] 2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Solzhenitzyn: "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door, and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur--what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked? The Organs (of state) would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

[-] 0 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago

Yes, but it's always either to mythologize after the fact isn't it? Before the fact, you just have the machine, run by the invisible evil that's manipulating everyone. Do you know who the enemy is?

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Especially since the Big$ 1% Power Elite has a monopoly on that agenda!

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

We tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and it's just not working. We have to break up. It's not you, it's me. I feel like maybe i haven't tried hard enough, but you keep shooting me down.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

OK. Water pistols, potato shooters, and air rifles. You take those and i will take the ar-10's, magnums, and 12-gauges. that seems like a fair trade.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The Secret History of Guns

The Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership—and regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers—the true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there’s no resolution in sight.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

gun registration, like automobile registration, is a necessary evil. that is different from taking away the right And the Black Panthers are using guns as a means to their own end.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Your lead exposure is showing again.

I'll repeat it for you.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Because what I want, more than anything, is the freedom to be free and the responsibilty that comes with it; to answer for my own actions, and not have the government dictate my life.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

No matter how many die?

No matter how much lead you ingest?

Are you a big fan of the MAD doctrine?

Oh BTW.

You should read it this time.

You have yet to respond to a single point.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Oh shit! I forgot that mantra! Can I throw this idea at you? Can you conceive of an individual who is a law abiding citizen, mentally sound, and with enough intelligence and sense to have weapons such as these, and not be a threat to society?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

you haven't answered my question.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Preventing Gun Violence in Our Nation

By Neera Tanden, Winnie Stachelberg, Arkadi Gerney, and Danielle Baussan | January 13, 2013

After last month’s senseless shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut—in which 20 children and 6 adults were shot and killed—we need to immediately address the gaps in our current law that enable mass shootings, as well as the everyday shootings that on average claim the lives of 33 Americans each day.

In this issue brief we recommend 13 legislative proposals and executive actions to prevent gun violence in our nation. These actions are targeted in the following three key areas:

Better background checks

Taking military-grade weapons off the streets and out of criminals’ hands

Better data, better coordination, and better enforcement

We discuss these actions in further detail below.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/civil-liberties/report/2013/01/13/49510/preventing-gun-violence-in-our-nation/

[-] 2 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

As tragic as the SandyHook Massacre is, an overreaction to gun violence is no substitute for radical mental health care reforms needed to heal and treat a society that is in a psychological crisis.

Drugs now kill more people than motor vehicle accidents in the U.S. -- a monumental shift that reflects gains in road safety amid a troubling rise in prescription drug abuse.

Drug overdoses and brain damage linked to long-term drug abuse killed an estimated 37,485 people in 2009, the latest year for which preliminary data are available, surpassing the toll of traffic accidents by 1,201. And the number is likely to rise as the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention prepares to release its official statistics in December.

Drug Deaths Exceed Traffic Deaths

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Drugs/drug-deaths-exceed-traffic-deaths/story?id=14554903

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

"Overreaction to gun violence"?? BENGHAZI! Fast & Furious!

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/22/shooting-reported-at-texas-college/

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (188) 1 year ago

Isn't this an example of diminished mental capacity?

Average Daily Gun Deaths

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/us-has-averaged-more-18-gun-deaths-every-day-newtown-school-shooting

Epidemic Drug Overdose in USA

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/rxbrief/

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Gun Violence in U.S. Cities Compared to the Deadliest Nations in the World

Richard Florida
Jan 22, 2013

"We can't put this off any longer," President Obama implored the nation last week as he introduced 23 executive actions designed to reduce gun violence in America. While the United States has the highest level of gun ownership per capita in the world, its rate of gun homicides, about three per 100,000 people, is far lower than that of Honduras, the country with the world's highest gun homicide rate (roughly 68 gun murders per 100,000 people). But America's homicide rate varies significantly by city and metro area, as I pointed out here at Cities a few weeks ago.

The map below compares the rate of gun murders in American cities to nations around the world. Building upon Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data used in that post, Zara Matheson of the Martin Prosperity Institute compiled additional data from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime and other sources collated by The Guardian. (While international crime data suffer from significant reporting and comparison issues, homicide data is more reliable. As the Urban Institute's John Roman points out, it is the one type of crime that is "hard to fake" and also most likely to be reported.)

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/01/gun-violence-us-cities-compared-deadliest-nations-world/4412/

No gun, no shoot ~ sane, under the influence, or Foxed in the head!

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

The United States Constitution

(c) 1791.

All Rights Reserved.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by Choonie (0) 1 year ago

No, here's the bottom line.

The United States Constitution

(c) 1791.

All Rights Reserved.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You don't know that either.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/texas-lt-governor-accidentally-admits-that-just-having-a-gun-is-worthless-for-protection/

You offer nothing but lies.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amendment XIII in the National Archives, bearing the signature of Abraham Lincoln

The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House on January 31, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865. On December 18, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed it to have been adopted. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted after the American Civil War.

Things change, time to progress. The Wild West is long gone.

[-] -2 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Try banning guns. Want to know what will happen? Read The Turner Diaries.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1979) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

We'll let you open well-regulated gun clubs and parks, but no guns off the premises. UK gun laws, UK health care!

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

The World is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round, and it has thrills and chills and is very brightly colored, and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they've begun to question, 'Is this real, or is this just a ride?', and other people have remembered, and they've come back to us and they say 'Hey, don't worry. Don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride.' and we KILL THOSE PEOPLE. "Shut him up! We have alot invested in this ride! SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account, and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that. You ever noticed that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because ... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear wants you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride: Take all that money we spent on weapons and defense each year and instead spend it feeding, clothing, and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and WE CAN EXPLORE SPACE, TOGETHER, BOTH INNER AND OUTER, forever ... in peace.--------Bill Hicks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

would a place like Galt's Gulch in Atlas Shrugged fit that category?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Why don't you tell us what the "Turner diaries" say will happen.

Who was Turner? Are they referring to Nat Turner?

Or are they referring to turner as a verb, Like he is gonna turn somethin?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Oh boy! Ok. Timothy McVey stated that part of his inspiration for the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 was a book by Andrew Macdonald called "The Turner Diaries". The protagonist, or main character for lack of a better word, was Earl Turner.
Out of curiosity, I bought the book and read it. It is quite the colonic tirade, but some of the similarities between events happening now and the fictional account in the book are rather startling. I am not hoping for this and I do not condone the actions in the book, but every action has an opposing reaction.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Enough bullshit!

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/texas-lt-governor-accidentally-admits-that-just-having-a-gun-is-worthless-for-protection/

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -2 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Enough bullshit! Enough lies! Too many innocents are dying! Change the CD in the stereo and let's move on to the next chapter in the story. LOLOLOLOLOL

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You think innocents dying is funny.

You are sick.

Lead exposure?

It's the only thing that can make you stupider than FLAKESnews.

There is NO next chapter.

It's the bottom line.

You haven't refuted a single word.

Read it, until you understand it.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Sure! Innocents dying is a laugh fest. Along with miniature poodles as toilet cleaners and a Weight Watchers convention in Ethiopia!! Whew!! LOLOLOLOL, Now that I am done chugging a Bud and kicking my dog with a jack boot, let me get serous. Banning guns will not stop violence; it will only infringe upon a constitutional right. You will have quicker and more satisfying results with metal detectors at all school entrances, surveillance cameras, and armed law enforcement outside each school. And, yes, I see the sheriff deputy outside the school everytime I take my youngest two children to school.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You've brought nothing but circular, ill-informed bullshit.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

that is the 8th time you have posted this. How about a ninth?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

OK No problem

I'll keep doing it until you read and understand it.

So far, you haven't.

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Riiiiight! Curiosity. Gotcha'. Don't worry I won't report you to the secret Fema police (who are gearing up to confiscate your guns).

However, my question was Why don't you tell us what the "Turner diaries" say will happen.?

You did refer to that, please enlighten us.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

The country is overthrown, the whites take over the country, and the blacks and Jews are rounded up and liquidated.
You know the saying "know thy enemy"? Why would anyone read Mein Kampf nowadays?
Like I said, I do not condone this, but there is an anger brewing out there.
Oh, and you can find the book on Amazon; along with Mark Mirabello's "Handbook for Rebels and Outlaws" and Al Franken's "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot".

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Your level of lead poising is showing again.

Did you get tested?

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You do not have to make excuses for owning that extremist, paranoid, terrorist, guidebook,

I'm simply asking what exactly you meant when you said "Want to know what will happen? Read The Turner Diaries.", Now you've also said "you don't hope or condone this" reaction. but to be clear you are suggesting IT ( country is overthrown, the whites take over the country, and the blacks and Jews are rounded up and liquidated) will happen?

And can I ask?

Do you think gun confiscation is in the works? And.... Does your referenced "Turner diaries" suggest this "overthrow,... liquidation" will happen after gun confiscation?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

At the moment, no. Those who preach gun banning will have to do something about the guns already out there, though
I believe the gun control lobby is fighting a losing battle. Like I said before, you are only dealing with a means, not the cause. And, no, I will not give you a cliff notes version of the book. This is a capitalist society and the author has earned his royalties. I have also read a biography on Marshal Tito of Yugoslovia and War and Peace.
I will keep giving you titles out of my library and let you keep guessing what kind of person I am. This is sort of fun.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I am not making judgements about you. I think that is useless. I am only asking about what YOU referenced.

So when you said "Want to know what will happen? Read The Turner Diaries." You did NOT mean that the book suggests the overthrow..& liquidation is a result of gun confiscation?

And now you're saying you do not believe gun confiscation is in the works, nor will it ever succeed.?

Then what did you mean.? Do you know what you meant?

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

I am saying that there are those who want to confiscate guns. I believe that. And I am saying that those who preach a gun ban, by reason, have to do something about the guns that are already on the street and in the home. And, yes, that is the beginning act in The Turner Diaries.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well no one of any importance is talking about confiscating guns. We are not going to have to violently overthrow the govt, & our govt is nothing like Hitler, Stalin, & Mao (only right wing extremist "Turner Diary" reading wackos suggest that)

So it sounds like you might be suggesting that supporters of reasonable, sensible gun safety regulation will inevitably have to confiscate guns?

And then the "Turner diaries" overthrow will of course happen?

Is that what you are suggesting.?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Hey, you said that. Not me. I would merely pull up a chair and watch the show

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You suggested that inevitably gun control advocates would have to do something about the existing guns.

You stated that if so.: "Want to know what will happen? Read The Turner Diaries."

And YOU stated the book responds to gun confiscation with govt overthrow (by white gun owners).... & minority liquidation.

Why are you running away from what YOU are saying.

Don't be embarrassed. You ain't alone. Didja see Alex Jones on CNN? He's very popular.

[-] 2 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Yep, perhaps some of the hotbeds of liberalism like San Francisco, Boston, etc. could be emptied out. The low-information citizens could be shipped to the interior in re-education camps. Those who pass muster can rejoin the new order and those who do not can be worked to death in the reclamation of the Mississippi. Sort of like Pol Pot.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I think that is a bit extremist.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's time for the, and here's the truth of who they are, gun fetishists, to finally understand that the rest of us are sick and tired of gun carnage in all it's putrid forms.

They have yet to give a single inch that they have not clawed and scratched to get back. Often at great expense to life and limb among the innocent, the non gun fetishists. Oh, and a high level of tax payer expense too.

I have listened to their threats of violence for decades now. Before I ever heard of the NRA.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] 1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

You could do a filibuster in the senate with this.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

If it would put a stop to the gun fetishists, lying bullshit, I would do so gladly.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

It would more likely put a stop to the "we are the world" idealism behind any gun control legislation that actually made it to the senate

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You bring nothing new, nothing rational to the table.

You should get yourself checked for lead exposure.

It's a very real, very damaging condition you could have from the lead in the air at a shooting range.

It's said that it was involved in the fall of the Roman empire too.

Here, read it again. It still hasn't sunk in.

Here's the bottom line.

Since the fetishists won't offer any kind of significant compromise. A significant inch, if you will, something will still be done and I doubt that you will like it. But you have been offered many chances to help find a solution.

YOU have failed to do so.

You have given us threats.

YOU have given us Alex Jones.

YOU have given us that wild eyed guy in Tennessee, that just plain threatened to start shooting.

YOU have given us other even more militant militias, that threaten to do the same.

All based on lies.

NO!

It's you who needs to understand OUR position.

We're sick of it.

If you won't help fix it, you really are part of the problem.

If you won't fix it?

Somebody else will.

And even if I personally, don't care for their solution, I will still thank them for trying.

I can be no more candid with you.

Here's another bottom line about how OWS has shown your BS about protecting us from tyranny is also far off point.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/12/how-occupy-proved-we-dont-need-guns-against-the-government/

Grow up.

Too many innocents are dying.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

This is pretty cool. You are the Rainman of OWS. Best of luck.