Forum Post: Are you going to vote for the party that is supporting new voter supression laws? Or against voter supression?
Posted 11 years ago on July 12, 2012, 7:58 p.m. EST by bensdad
(8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Or maybe you think, like koch-alec-grover, that we should not vote
Are you for the party that's been screwing us over for decades?
Are you for the party that's really been screwing us over for decades?
I am for the party that would not appoint Scalia or Thomas
generalities are the sign of a weak mind
Generalities are for those that see things in black and white like they want you to, you mental midget.
Your boy Roberts has no problem handing the insurance cartel and a corrupted gov an ass load of power, why not vouch for him.
They won't let me vote for them.
Well of course you know that the guys supporting the requirement of picture ID's opposed the proposal to provide the universal ID's free.
How do you sell GOP? They just want to get rid of the burdenussome regulations, The burdenyousome regulations? They like those regulations. They are the ones that make the cow stand still while she is being milked.
Can you imagine how Lincoln or TR would "spell" GOP ????
With a silent cleaver?
Are you for the party that wants to bomb foreign countries or for the party that wants to bomb foreign countries?
Are you for the party that repealed glass steagall or for the party that repealed glass steagall?
Are you for the party that bailed out the fraudulent banks or for the party that bailed out the fraudulent banks?
Are you for the party that voted for the patriot act or for the party that voted for the patriot act?
Did you ever think that both of the mainstream parties are the problem? One might be worse, but the other is no saint. In fact they're both causing problem.
The system is corrupted.
as people call you a Republican it is true that they are the same but as they so if you say the parties are the same you are an evil 1% pawn.
so whats your take on the ID laws
Mike Turzai is a scam artist is what I think.
Also people can call me a repub all they want. My voting record is clean! I've never voted for a republican, ever. My record has D's... but I don't support shitty democrats. I've decided to research who i vote for from here on out. Scour their voting records. Obama was the first time I was able to vote. I supported Kucinich in 2008 until he dropped out. Then I voted Obama when it came down to it. I am disappointed in my vote for Obama and from here on out have vowed to never support someone that has such a violent foreign policy and commits bombs of aggression.
Also people who call me a republican are just blinded by their hatred for repubs that they don't want to admit that the democrats have done bad too. Like when bipartisan support repealed Glass Steagall.
alright i think its problem though when we are forced to vote for either black or white on these issues
we don't have to...
people seem to mainly vote for who the tv says.
Hence Romney and Obama... the 2 spectrums that flooded the airwaves the most.
If you don't support the wars you're supporting Al Qaida - Bush
If you don't support Obama you're supporting Romney
If you don't support Romney you're supporting Obama
Does this propaganda sound familiar?
because it works so well
we do have two people because we have two main parties that have their pockets filled with money of interest groups.
its not propaganda when its true in the next election there wont be a two candidates
In our system one of 2 people will become president.
That is how it is. Many of us want to change that. When it does we will be there.
Until then we shouldn't pretend it isn't so.
Sorry
The repeal of Glass steagal had a democratic presidential signature and some democratic votes in congress but it was squarely conservative policy.
Republicans ARE the problem. Vote out conservative pro 1% plutocrat politicians
Elect progressives
"a joint Senate and House Conference Committee reported out a final version of S. 900 that was passed on November 4, 1999, by the House in a vote of 362-57 and by the Senate in a vote of 90-8. President Clinton signed the bill into law on November 12, 1999, as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Modernization Act of 1999 (GLBA).[
the repeal of regulations like glass steagal is conservative policy. Dems who cave in and vote for conservative policies and betray progressive principles should be voted out of office.
Elect progressives, Vote out pro Norquist, ant Buffet rule politicians.
democrats who "cave in and vote for conservative policies" are just as bad for this country as the conservatives voting for conservative policies.
In the end talk is cheap. It's the voting records that matter.
As I said they should be voted out. But once again you focus only on the dems.
The policy is conservative so of course the party that proudly trumpets the conservative policies that benefit the 1% plutocrats must be voted out most of all.
You conveniently left that out. I wonder why. Could it be you are just anti dem and actually a partisan repub?
Jes' aksin';
You're making the focus about dems when you say they are blame free.
hence the topic of me trying to prove you wrong on the issue.
we both fully agree republicans suck. Why would we argue about that?
Our conversation is based on how you've framed it.
Also I blamed bipartisan support for Glass Steagall repeal. I did not blame either party solely. You did that.
I said dems who vote for consevative policies should be voted out. you said they were "as bad as". Which is untrue. the party that creates and trumpets the policy is worse.
All your comments attempt to equate the dems with the repubs who are by far the worst.
As always you push the fallacy that the parties are the same to cover for the repubs crimes and discourage dem support.
Clever. But I don't buy it.
I support dems like Kucinich.
You know the kind of dems that have a spine and actually tried to impeach Bush for war crimes
the kind that voted no to the bailouts.
the kind of dem that voted no to the repeal of glass steagall
the good kind. I don't support faux dems.
Kucinich has a lot goin for him. He's done right.? retiring?
Is he the libertarian dem?
He's starting an action group to fight for real progressive issues.
Kucinich is more of a social dem. He thinks medicare for all is the way to go. And it could be up to 40% more cost effective than the current system.
Also why so negative about dennis? Are you a republican? LOLOL
I'll look for it. he has a lot to offer.
I don't have a lot of patience for libertarians who want the govt to limit their responsibility to the "military and constitutional dictates"
It's usually code for ending any social programs.
those disbalanced numbers due to bank shell game should be corrected
What numbers r u referring to.?
the ones indicating who has money
Sorry I musta missed something. I know I have very little money. but otherwise. idk
lol
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lol call me a republican all you want. It doesn't change the truth.
So are you saying that only democrats supported the bankster bailouts? Are you defending the Tarp bailouts? What are you getting at here? Don't tell me you're on an OWS site defending Goldman Sachs and Tarp Bailouts. That would be too ironic. If you look at the TARP bailouts it had bipartisan support. That's a fact. Just like the patriot act. Just like the AUMF under Bush.
How many countries have Bush and Obama bombed since 2001? Are you aware Black Water aka International Development Solutions is still being used?
What was the vote count on the repeal of Glass Steagall? It passed with bipartisan support. My democrat senator and republican congressman had an identical yes vote.
Obama 2012 and Romney 2012 are just propaganda created by money in politics.
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or instead of the bailouts we could have created a solution to the problem of the fraudulent banks.
And that is to rework the monetary system in a way that benefits society. HR 2990 the NEED Act is a good example.
Giving 700 billion dollars to wall street was not a solution. And neither were the trillions the federal reserve has given them. Obviously they keep failing due to fraud and deregulation and we also see our dollar value decrease due to inflation.
So you support a system where the banks hold all the power?
That is also very ironic to support the bankster on an OWS site. You have become a joke. I used to like your posts but now you just sound like the others who say if you don't support Obama that you're really a republican. LOL. So are anarchists republicans too? Pathetic tactic for you to choose. Later ZenDog
Let me know when you stop propping up the big banks that hold all the power over the individual.
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then why did you just say you supported the bailouts?
The bailouts were driven by fear... not fact.
Bernie voted no on the bailouts. You're flip flopping now. First you loved them now you're saying you agree with Bernie.
Bernie is more of a real democrat. He's not owned by private interests that pursue war and bomb foreign countries.
Bernie knows giving infinite money to Wall Street frauds is not a solution.
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No one ever said do nothing. I just said the bailouts were a complete and utter failure. And you went on to say how it saved 25% of jobs like it was a good thing.
A real solution is monetary reform. Not giving Goldman Sachs more money to pay CEO bonuses.
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All the bailouts did was give money to the problem.
Giving infinite money to Wall Street IS NOT A SOLUTION
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We could have solved the problem with changes in monetary policy. Like in HR 2990 that directly funds the public instead of the banks that lost money due to greed, paying CEO's, and fraud.
You're not going to convince a real OWS supporter that the Wall Street bailouts were a good idea. Here we don't approve of the manipulation from Goldman Sachs and the other frauds.
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They did keep a lot of auto workers and related suppliers in business - the bail out could have been very beneficial - but unfortunately the lions share of the money was wasted on wallstreet instead of being given to aid the victims of wallstreet's greed/crimes.
It's kind of like the fucked-up foreign policy - give money to the oppressors of the people in foreign countries and call it humanitarian aid to those peoples.
Fucking idiots.
Aren't you aware Trevor that anyone that believes that both parties are screwed-up are branded as being a Republican now. Only if you are a true dem supporter are you a true OWS member.
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Clever cartoon idea. But the recurring "vote for the party" theme is the very act that keeps the corruption firmly rooted "In" congress. "Vote for the candidate" instead.
The party affiliation pretty much tells ALL of us the general philosophy of the candidate. That is how it works. Ignoring that is not very good advice if we really strive to understand the candidate we wish to vote for.
This argument sounds like another flawed and fallacious proposition that states both the democratic and republican parties are essentially the same. In other words dem = rep.
Truthfully these arguments are pitiful and think most here would agree. Anyone who falls for it would surely end up misguided. And. if it were the case. who bother voting. Can we say slippery slope? Also, can we say this slope takes us off the edge of cliff to our sudden death?
Believe Global Warming is Real? ANS: This has nothing to do with belief. It is the truth and can be proven scientifically with EVIDENCE.
Do we know Truth???
Come Together NOW
Support progressive solutions to correct the plutocratic 1% conservative policies that have screwed everything up.
anything that allows a Republican to take office hurts the country it's that simple really
some confuse getting rid of Republicans as the goal, that's just the start, but doing anything like voting third party is a betrayal to the country, sometimes you have to get dirty to get things done.
That's exactly right Factsrfun! We start our way out this hole by voting out the GOP along their Tea Party wing and then we hold the dems feet to fire. The enlightenment will start when the extremist bible toting conservatives are sent to their own fiery hell where no one listens to their ranting anymore and don't believe their fantasies about the meaning of life. It's time for REASON. The AGE of Reason also called the enlightenment. We need to get back on that track, the very one that brought us Jefferson and the beginning of our country USA.
Come TOGETHER NOW
I like that.
Elect progressive who will undo the conservative policies that created this crises, and inequity, and that benefits the 1% plutocrats.
Solidarity
Absolutely. If Mittney gets into the oval office, everything this movement had fought for will be lost. Obama got screwed and obstructed when we let the damn Tea Party creeps into the congress. There's nothing they will stop for to defeat Obama including destroying our economy and blaming Obama for it. That's why they refuse to pass the JOBS BILL. The ends justify the means. The GOP needs to become a relic of the past. We must never stop fighting.
Come Together NOW
Repub party will become a relic. I think they suspect it, because they are using ALEC created legislation to attempt to suppress the vote.
There time is gonna come.
We have to stay active and together. Join with all otherlike minded progressive groups. A coalition to rival all others.
It's the only way.
Here's a Diane Rehm show with a couple of guys talking about todays GOP
http://thedianerehmshow.org/audio-player?nid=15938
A good program. This type of thing should be continually circulated.
Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein join Diane to talk about their new book "It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How The American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism".
SO true, and timely. Yes, the GOP has taken a very hard right turn with the help of the Tea Baggerts, NPR covered this very well. Good program. Very Good. I highly recommend others here give a good listen, you will definitely learn something from it.
Thanks!
Come Together NOW
What hurts the country is the corruption that exists within both sides. Focus on the corruption, not which side it's located.
JR, Democrat does NOT equal Republican. We couldn't be farther apart historically actually. This is the evident truth.
When folks say our politics are polarized, which is obviously true, what does that mean to you?
Come Together NOW
"When folks say our politics are polarized, which is obviously true, what does that mean to you?"
It's a smokescreen. Congress is united in taking our most basic rights. Party affiliation is at an all time low. They are weak. They fight to make one party look they are the bad guys and the other party look like they are the good guys. They are both the bad guys.
Their plan is to keep us separated. Divide and conquer. Together we are strong and together we will defeat them..
So, your a Liberterian? Yes?
If not, what is your party affiliation? (You must have one or really, your just whistling dixie in a tin can.)
Come Together NOW
No party, but why is that so hard to comprehend? The same brainwashing that occurs if you are a member of the bloods or crips applies to political parties. Both will beat you up if you try to leave, one physically, the other mentally.
Your positions must belong to party that has some power to be effective. Or you better start one or help someone start one. One thing is for sure, in this country, we always had the party system and I'm sure we will continue as such for a long time to come.
I hope your NOT advocating a true democracy. That's pure fantasy. You and I may be ready for that, but the majority in this country, are not even close ready. There is a reason we have a representative government. It was actually a stroke of genius we decided this path.
Are you?
Come Together NOW
You sound like a cult leader using fear to bring back a member who woke up to the truth. The dam has already started to break, and soon there will be no stopping the flow.
All of the political power stored up for decades behind that damn party wall will flow back to the people where it belongs.
Parties are a horrible concept. What could possibly be worse for a democracy than "elected leaders" banning together and pooling their money?
So there's that whole big tent idea shot to hell. Lotsa little tents. Hmmm..............maybe, medium size, wind proof.
Wait, maybe instead of tents we use...........hmmm...............
Hot Air Balloons :D
YeePee Ki Yay
Come Together NOW
Or maybe the tents just keep out the voters?
Nah, we use the barbed wire for that and the dogs are there if they actually make it through to finish them off. We don't screw around with those types of freedom lovers. Let's keep it straight, ok?
Come Together NOW
duh
Historically is the key term. The Dem party of the past 15 years +/- bears little resemblance to the Democratic party I grew up with.
And so has the GOP, changed drastically, they originated the EPA under Nixon. Now they would gladly abolish it in a heartbeat. Nixon also proposed Health Care Reform quite similar to Obama's plan. Mittney's plan passed in Mass and it's almost exactly like the Obama plan. Mass residents by a wide margin love the plan. Started by a Repugnant One, Mittney. NOW, they would abolish, demolish, obliterate, and vaporize it in foul swoop if they could.
So, yes, historically is the right term for the obvious polarization we see today ON BOTH SIDES (it is the definition of polarize)
Come Together NOW
Do not ignore the reality that repubs proudly trumpet the policies of the 1% plutocrats.!
Dems have moved right for 30 years but can be dragged back from the right and made to serve the 99% by passing the progressive policies we need to undo destructive right wing policies.
The reality is the 1% plutocrats use party loyalty do divide us. And so divided, we are impotent.
Clearly your making this stuff up. How about focusing on the truth sometimes, it helps.
We are only divided as long as we continue to support Rep[ublicans we would not be divided if so many did not support the party of the 1%.
The real problem with American is our "death tax" it's much too low and is turning the country into a servant class; even doctors serve those that inherit.
There really is a political party that places the wealth of the wealthy as it’s only real concern and it is not hard to figure out which one that is.
The problem with picking candidates instead of parties is that, first of all, I don’t think there are any Republicans that admit that we have gone way too far cutting taxes on the wealthy, but also they will vote for leadership, that supports the government sticking probes up the private parts of women, and that’s just wrong, oh and the GOP will fight to the death to keep public funding for elections from happening, I mean really guy you don’t see ANY differences?
Here's a link you will like this really it's about "the sevant class"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-07-17/jeff-faux-servant-economy
We are divided by parties. End them both.
Are you saying we should tear up the Consitution?
Washington didn't want parties either, do you really think your going to do what he couldn't?
No, tear up the parties. 40% are independents now, just 60% to go.
It is true we have two "independents" in congress both vote with the dems mostly, about to get another, if an independent can beat the republican in a given race then by all means, but if you screw up and the republican wins, just be prepared to be reasponseible for all they do like wars and such.
The "screw up" is when people vote for parties instead of people.
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but even the "good" republicans go to congress and support Rand and Bonner. If you have a Republican that will go on record saying they will support a tax increase on the wealthy, I'd think about it, but don't think you will find one of those.
Yes. We do...
AAHH! So we shouldn't support the parties. And vote for non establishment candidates.
So clever.
How about if we support progressive candidates who speak against the plutocratic conservative policies. Are you ok with that?
Speaking means absolutely nothing. Actions do. And nearly all Democrats and Republicans running for national office are funded by the 1%. I mean some of the DNC's big donation guys worked with Romney at Bain Capital. So people can speak against plutocratic conservative policies all they want because at the end of the day they still have their hand out.
Because our campaign laws allow that. Because the conserv SCOTUS found corps are people, and money equals speech. Those laws must change.
We can't give up our right to vote. We must vote for candidates who support our progressive agenda, and we must protest actively. Constant pressure. Agitate all pols for what will help the 99%. and end the conservative policies that the plutocrats have forced on us.
So unions are people too huh? Because over the last 10 years they've spent 4.4 Billion in campaign contributions to Democrats.
Unions are not people. Only people are people. End all political donations. Public finances of all campaigns.
So you're saying that the unions that donate to strictly democrat campaigns should end? I'd be ok with that.
Yeah I'm sure you would. And leave the corp 1% plutocrat criminal money with your republicans?
So you are an unashamed partisan republican.
I'm not a republican at all actually. I also realize that the reason they pushed for the citizens united act was to combat the flood of money being donated by unions to the democrats.
End both, and I'd be happy. Actually... I could not care less so keep both going as it adds something to laugh at when you guys get your feathers all ruffled.
You are nasty, hostile and clearly unstable. You are advocating violence and that is the last thing we need.
The bankers money is overwhelmingly going to your candidate Romney. Obama will sign stronger fin reform when your right wing 1% tools are voted out of office. Obama is getting 50% donations under $200.
When anew system of horizontal, direct democracy that allows for a 3rd party comes about I will be there. Until then I'm not gonna rant and rave at the moon about how impotent I am. I will do as we have done wheneverwe have gotten this corrupt govt to respond. (womens vote, civli rights, workers rights, ss, unemployment insurance)
I think your calif droughts are a result of all the gas you burn in cali cali ever hear of something called climate change.? I suppose the sierra club is responsible for the current drought too? LOL
The organization working hardest to protect the environment is responsible for forest fires? LMFAO
You gotta be kiddin. You sound like a partisan republican.
I'm not advocating violence, I'm saying that voting doesn't work when we have no options other than what the 1% (which includes the government by the way, Democrats and Republicans alike) tells us we can choose from.
Obviously you have reading comprehension problems as I've already stated I'm not a republican, and I've voted Libertarian in the last 3 presidential elections. Also, my name is JonFromSLC which would indicate that I don't live in California.
Where's the other 50% of Obamas donations coming from? WALL STREET.
I'm done with you dude, you're an idiot and you have serious thinking issues.
And on the forest fires, try asking a park ranger or forester whats to blame for the fires. They'll tell you quite a different story than what the Sierra Club will tell you, yet the foresters are the ones out in the forests trying to save them, and the Sierra Club are the ones trying to control us. You decide who you want to listen to, and do whatever it is that you do.
I'm done with your stupidity.
Oh so it's like entertainment for you. You don't really give a shit.
Cool. Who cares about the corrupting influence of money.
And you ain't a republican but parrot some right wing talking point fallacy about the imaginary threat of the pitifully low amounts of union money compared to the 10 fold higher contributions of corp America.
Riiiight!
LMFAO
It is entertainment to me considering nothing we do will change anything. People will vote for one of the 2 parties that has a grip so tight that it will only be loosened by all out violent war. And in this day and age, in this country, that's just not possible. So, yes at this point it is entertainment. You guys are bitching about how much money is going into the system yet the country is on the verge of bankruptcy. That's like arguing about where to put the couch when you're losing the house to foreclosure.
I don't parrot anything. I look at the facts (or what people tell me are facts) and I apply a little common sense and make up my own mind. Unlike you guys who parrot the same MSNBC nonsense.
Who was Obama's biggest contributor in the 08 election? Who did Obama pick for over 1/2 of his cabinet positions? Where did his money come from? THE BANKS! JP Morgan owns your black messiah and you fuckwits don't have the sense to put the pieces together. The banks that you guys are so envious of are in collusion with the Congress. How else do you think that the financial collapse could happen without anyone going to jail? CONGRESS WROTE THE RULES BY WHICH THE BANKS DESTROYED THE SYSTEM. It's not the banks breaking laws that sent us into a collapse. They're following the laws exactly how Congress wrote them.
Corporate America owns the rich greedy evil republicans right? How much money did Wall St. give to Obama? How much money does Congress make (Your precious socialist democrats too) on insider trading deals that we can't get? Ask Nancy Pelosi how much money she's made. Ask Boenner. Ask any of them. They're all fuckin crooked and they're all bought and paid for by the people you guys are so jealous of.
The whole system is rigged. Not just the republicans, not just the democrats. EVERYONE is in the pocket of big interest groups from the ACLU and the Sierra club to the NRA and the oil companies.
You guys are so dimwitted you can't even see it for what it is. A scam. And you buy into it, just like they want you to. Keep being a good little sheep and spread your silly nonsense to someone else. I'm too smart to drink your Kool-Aid.
You are not republican? HA!
Obamas other 50% is a lot of union money, as well celebrity money, lawyers also, there are some liberal leaning billionaire fin people so he gets that money. But the money (which should all be removed from politics) and the banker appointments is overshadowed by the fact that the dems have pushed through fin reform overthe obstruction of the 1% tools your repubs.
Your constant nasty insults are pathetic attempts at intimidation. You use the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney.
you are a partisan republican. Just admit it. You ain't kiddin anyone.
Wow you are so smart. We are not worthy. Then you must know that insults usually mean you have weak arguments.
The banks hate Obama now because he signed (even with the bankers he appointed) the fin reform that your repubs watered down. remember smarty?
You got a problem with the sierra club? Thats kinda outa right field! (get it?)
In any event you have given up because you are impotent to change things I understand. It happens to lotsa men. Too difficult for you? I suppose your so smart you see that there is no hope. I wonder if you were smarter you might see a way forward aside from violence. I bet there are smarter people who see a way forward, I suppose you would just insult them 'cause you are so smart.
Or maybe you are as I already said just another partisan republican who wants to insult good honest progressives who want to improve the country for everyone.
Didn't you already reply to this post? Also, learn how to use "your" "you're" in sentences because you look stupid when you use the wrong one.
The banks don't hate Obama dipshit. They own Obama. They hold over half of his cabinet and they've contributed MILLIONS of dollars to his campaign.
On a side note, ya the Sierra club is preventing loggers and the forest dept from going in and clearing underbrush or cutting trees that are infested with bugs which in the long run makes for a really nice tinderbox that just so happens to burn California to the ground EVERY YEAR.
I see a way forward, but it entails getting a viable 3rd party in office and getting rid of the two parties that have ruined this country. How was this country founded? Violence. What were they breaking away from? Tyrannical leaders that took their money without giving them anything to show for it. Sounds a lot like today. Congress/Fed/Treasury/President colluding to make money for themselves or give themselves power over every aspect of our lives and we have absolutely NO say in it whatsoever. We can vote right? What difference does it make when we vote the same people into power every time? It's a machine. It benefits from our stupidity and we prove we're stupid every time we go into the ballot booth and vote the same corrupt people into office.
If nothing changes, then nothing will change.
Good honest progressives who perpetuate the class war to get the stupid and lazy to hate the smart and working so that they need the politicians to take from the people who have, to give to the people who don't. That's not what this country needs. This country needs more people who actually work for a living, pay taxes, and carry their own "fair" share of the burden.
Bunch of lazy asses.
this guy is a wacko - i made a silly attempt to help him. i mentioned that maybe if he were slightly more reasonable - and recognized that obama has been a disappointment in many ways that he would get more traction with people. it ended with some piggie wiggie name calling. also calling me a republican - which is the last thing i might be. anyway i am now thinking he is a plant by the gop to annoy people so much that they hate obama- ok, a bit crazy but nothing else makes sense - he is too stupid to be believed. not worth the time - just my 2 cents
Stop drinking your lake water - you are hallucinating.
[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (299) from West Valley City, UT 2 minutes ago
I'm not advocating violence, I'm saying that voting doesn't work when we have no options other than what the 1% (which includes the government by the way, Democrats and Republicans alike) tells us we can choose from.
Obviously you have reading comprehension problems as I've already stated I'm not a republican, and I've voted Libertarian in the last 3 presidential elections. Also, my name is JonFromSLC which would indicate that I don't live in California.
Where's the other 50% of Obamas donations coming from? WALL STREET.
I'm done with you dude, you're an idiot and you have serious thinking issues.
And on the forest fires, try asking a park ranger or forester whats to blame for the fires. They'll tell you quite a different story than what the Sierra Club will tell you, yet the foresters are the ones out in the forests trying to save them, and the Sierra Club are the ones trying to control us. You decide who you want to listen to, and do whatever it is that you do.
I'm done with your stupidity. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
but it tastes so good!!! lol
Make a choice, make a difference!
People are not perfect, but to vote third party is the same as doing nothing at best, helps the GOP at worst, NO MORE Bushes, 2000 never again, if your not ready to start defeating Republicans then your just not pissed off enough yet.
Voting for either party is a broken record. I'm tired of listening to the same song of lies.
No more reps and no more dems. Never again.
If your so tired of politics, then why the heck are you here?
Anything to do with government is by it's very nature is POLITICAL.
Look it up. Investigate truth, it doesn't mind. It's there for you unless you want to continue your ignorance of it. Your choice. But I'll tell you, Ignorance is NOT Bliss. It perilous.
Didn't you get the memo? Come into the light........
Come Together NOW
I'm tired of corrupt politics. Will be voting to remove it all this November. How about you?
I'm voting for Obama and every democrat running in my region. I want Obama back and the do nothing, just say NO, obstructionist Congress out. Not only do we need to elect the right leader but we have to embolden them when they get in. Set a damn a fire to their feet and demand they do the people's business for once. End all the Wars including the Drug War and then, maybe then, we will be on a roll to Sanity and REASON. Ignorance is our biggest obstacle.
Come Together NOW
Another political robot programmed by the democratic party. When a person can't think on his own, but only repeat what he has been told, isn't that a cult?
Whatever fits for your house of cards. So glad you figured everything out. The Grand Conspiracy.
Are you the next Guru to indoctrinate us with your commands?
We are completely rule based you know O' wise one. We really are at your command. Your friends wrote it into our codes.
I was just wondering how you knew all this. The amazing JR. Oh wise one!
Come Together Right NOW
COMMAND ME
One would think the landslide victory in 08 would have been that fire. It wasnt. It never is. And it never will be.
This is what happens when you vote for a "party" that is 100+ years old. Each party's history is VERY VERY DISTURBING. Which is why we are stuck sociopaths in DC.
Grow up Peter Pan.
I wish we had a better example of voter suppression other then requiring an ID to vote. You have to have an ID for anything and everything that is important these days.
Is 700,000 enough effext?
Pennsylvania state Rep. Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, is putting the national election spotlight back on his home state. PoliticsPA.com quoted Turzai when he said a new voter ID law in Pennsylvania could help Mitt Romney win the state.
This will effect over 700,000 voters in Pennsylvania – mostly senior, minorities, and students.
Turzai listed the Castle Doctrine law, pro-life regulations and a new voter ID law as items Republicans have passed in Pennsylvania. The House Majority Leader then said the voter ID law "is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."
The law goes into effect in the general election. All voters must show a photo ID at the polls before they are allowed to vote.
The New York Times reports some colleges and universities in Pennsylvania will have to make changes to student IDs to allow some students to vote. Democrats allege the changes would make it harder for younger voters and minorities to cast ballots.
Mark Nicastre told PoliticsPA.com claims the state's GOP agenda "simply helps their donors and political allies. ... Democrats are focused on protecting Pennsylvanians' right to vote."
Turzai alleges voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania in the past. Turzai spokesman Stephen Miskin also told PoliticsPA.com "the Republican presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to voter ID."
here's one
http://flcourier.com/2012/07/12/thousands-petition-department-of-justice-to-protect-the-vote-in-florida/
I don't see where Scott's push is a problem, as long as it takes place well before the election and has safeguards that give everyone enough time to demonstrate they are eligible to vote. Let something come out that for every thousand names checked they found a mere dozen or so people were not supposed to be on the rolls. Scott will look like a fool.
In the first place it is already not "well before the election" under federal law it is already too late, but he has gone to court to sue to do this. In the second place, really he's only a fool if 95% or so are wrong, well it has alraedy come oput that many on the listr are legal voters and it doesn't stop him, so now that you have something besides ID laws to be upset about I'm sure to hear a lot from you on this, right? How outragous it is and all, or did you not mean what you said?
I meant what I said, states can do what they want within the law. If this purging has been delayed and now too close to election then it will likely be stopped by the courts. In theory I see nothing all that wrong with confirming everyone voting has the legal right to do so.
Indeed, but here's a sample of Bensdad's logic:
[-]0 points by bensdad (2774) 3 days ago
And do you stand with the party that is passing bogus "voter id" laws to stop voter fraud? Or do you stand with the other party?
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[-]3 points by struggleforfreedom80 (2094) 3 days ago
I'm in favor of Anarcho-Syndicalism, so naturally I despise both :)
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[-]1 points by ABO2012 (4) 1 day ago
Come on. The "disenfranchised" manage to find ID when they get all their taxpayer freebies!
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[-]0 points by bensdad (2774) 1 day ago
TROLL
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[-]2 points by ABO2012 (4) 1 hour ago
Oh, you cannot dispute that ID is required for food stamps, SSI, ATDC, unemployment, section 8 housing, obama cell phones and that's just off the top of my head.
AND oh yeah, the Naacp convention this week required 2 ijd's. Guesws that's why Mitt spoke there and Obama couldn't get in?
Full discussion here http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-ds-the-rs-are-the-same-obama-the-ds-want-to-ex/
i hate them both.
an honest and well thought out reply
it was meant to be blunt.
On the matter of 'Voter Suppression' and for some insights into who is doing the 'fraud' and how and why, I append a link to a very illuminating if not disturbing documentary film & three other relevant links :
"Murder, Spies, and Voting Lies" : http://seattlecommunitymedia.org/node/10430 (full audio kicks in at 1:50, low audio level in general so will require increase in volume.) This doc. film is also viewable on 'YouTube' in six parts. I strongly recommend this doc. for reasons which will become quite obvious on viewing.
"It’s a Sabotage!" ('The BIG Picture Show' with Thom Hartmann), "Tonight’s political panel talks the latest from the voter purge scandal in Florida and .... whether the Supreme Court will listen to former Justice Stevens’ latest comments against Citizens United ..." : http://rt.com/programs/big-picture/sabotage-tonights-latest-republican/ ,
"America’s Voting System Is a Complete Farce", by Mac Slavo : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31059.htm &
"The Republican 'Voter Fraud' Fraud - All over the US, GOP lawmakers have engineered schemes to make voting more difficult. Well, if you can't win elections fairly .. ", by Diane Roberts, 'The Guardian' : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29577.htm .
fiat lux et fiat justitia ...
horrifying
Wait until to watch the whole doc. film "Murder, Spies and Voting Lies" !!! Your blood will boil and your bile will rise at the abject nature of The 'demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy' prevalent in The U$A !!
Thus please consider :
e tenebris, lux ...
ID always, for all people, definitely - that's not voter suppression, it's voter protection.
Do you believe an Rs:
Pennsylvania state Rep. Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, is putting the national election spotlight back on his home state. PoliticsPA.com quoted Turzai when he said a new voter ID law in Pennsylvania could help Mitt Romney win the state.
This will effect over 700,000 voters in Pennsylvania – mostly senior, minorities, and students.
Turzai listed the Castle Doctrine law, pro-life regulations and a new voter ID law as items Republicans have passed in Pennsylvania. The House Majority Leader then said the voter ID law "is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."
The law goes into effect in the general election. All voters must show a photo ID at the polls before they are allowed to vote.
The New York Times reports some colleges and universities in Pennsylvania will have to make changes to student IDs to allow some students to vote. Democrats allege the changes would make it harder for younger voters and minorities to cast ballots.
Mark Nicastre told PoliticsPA.com claims the state's GOP agenda "simply helps their donors and political allies. ... Democrats are focused on protecting Pennsylvanians' right to vote."
Turzai alleges voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania in the past. Turzai spokesman Stephen Miskin also told PoliticsPA.com "the Republican presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to voter ID."
People who do not have ID do not live within the normal bounds of society; not only are they unable to seek employment, they can't even get social services. They live on the fringes, in the shadows... and they do not deserve the right to vote.
700,000 registered voters in PA may be disinfranchized
so what?
they are students, elderly minorities
why would we want to count their votes? Pennsylvania state Rep. Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, is putting the national election spotlight back on his home state. He said a new voter ID law in Pennsylvania could help Mitt Romney win the state.
This will effect over 700,000 voters in Pennsylvania – mostly senior, minorities, and students.
Turzai listed the Castle Doctrine law, pro-life regulations and a new voter ID law as items Republicans have passed in Pennsylvania. The House Majority Leader then said the voter ID law "is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."
The law goes into effect in the general election. All voters must show a photo ID at the polls before they are allowed to vote.
The New York Times reports some colleges and universities in Pennsylvania will have to make changes to student IDs to allow some students to vote. Democrats allege the changes would make it harder for younger voters and minorities to cast ballots.
Mark Nicastre told PoliticsPA.com claims the state's GOP agenda "simply helps their donors and political allies. ... Democrats are focused on protecting Pennsylvanians' right to vote."
Turzai alleges voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania in the past. Turzai spokesman Stephen Miskin also told PoliticsPA.com "the Republican presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to voter ID."
No one should vote without presenting ID - un-naturalized aliens should not be permitted to vote, period. And either should anyone else that is unwilling to go the minimal distance of proving citizenship.
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You know it's not like we've forgotten Acorn or the Black Panthers of the last election; we haven't.
[Removed]
I just learned on the news today that the law passed by Georgia that requires several Id's in order to get a drivers license was required by the Feds.
Interesting isn't it.
Your article does not state that the feds required this particular law. It simply states that the feds require better Id since 9/11.
But you knew that. right? I guess your just trying to obfuscate the truth.
Maybe the repubs in georgia want cover by claiming "the feds made us do it".
We're too smart to be fooled by you, or your vote suppressing repubs.
Hear you go - maybe you need to read up on the requirements for your state also because it's coming to DMV near you.
http://cumming.patch.com/articles/new-secure-drivers-licenses-and-ids-to-begin-july-1-d25196b9
http://www.times-georgian.com/view/full_story/19164683/article-New-driver-s-license-ID-requirements-now-in-effect?instance=west_ga_news
http://www.mva.maryland.gov/Driver-Services/RealID/default.htm
http://www.times-georgian.com/view/full_story/19164683/article-New-driver-s-license-ID-requirements-now-in-effect?instance=TG_home_story_offset
http://atlanta.about.com/b/2012/07/06/new-requirements-to-renew-georgia-drivers-license.htm
http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-07-07/story/new-drivers-license-requirements-spread-frustration-around-georgia
Please. You lost credibility when you misrepresented the last article you linked.
You support the new id laws? Or not?
Peace
I said nothing about supporting nor not supporting new ID laws - where did that question come from?
Seems to me when folks disagree with what is posted and they in turn try to discredit it but can't they change the subject as you have and like many do.
Yeah that didn't make sense.
The question came from your link regarding GA ID requirements.
So then you DO support the voter ID laws?
this guy is really twisted - not worth the time. either his reading comprehension skills are at a 3rd grade level or he is a lying little shit. i am now thinking he is a gop plant put here to piss people off by pretending to be a huge obama supporter - i guess i have read too many conspiracy theory books!
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i was saying that VQ was a moron - i was agreeing with you
give us link on that
Here's the link:
http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2012-07-02/new-law-requires-3-ids-ga-driver-license-renewals?mmo_ccc=xfinity
those are the exact same documents I needed to get a license over thirty years ago in ma.
Not to mention you needed 2 id's to be admitted to the naacp get together this week!
Can you say HYPROCACITY? Hope you can, cuz I can't spell it!
IF I HAD A SON, HE'D LOOK LIKE BRIAN TERRY. Holder has to go
Brian Terry was killed by weak gun laws that conservatives created.
Atty Gen Holder did the right thing shutting down the Bush era fast and furious investigation. He is also doing the right thing going after the republican effort at voter suppression.
You want justice for Zim? Life in prison! That would be justice.
Geez. Guns laws are not weak. Enforcement is!
But I'm pretty willing tp be that all you know about fast and furious is what you read in that misleading, innacurate Fortune article.
I have followed this story for over a year. But that's because I read "conservative" blogs/. F&F wasn't a blip on MSM radar until Holder was held in contempt. And then, only a quick, cynical mention.
I DO want juistice for Zim. If you were there and are the only other eye witness, why haven't you come forward? t
He lied about his mneyto get low parole. He's dishonest. I don't believe his story. He should beconvicted of murdering that poor innocent kid.
neighborhood watch indeed.
Enforcement of existing guns laws is weak, but laws must be stronger to prevent uncontrolled private/gun show sales.
Peace
the death of brian terry was the result of holder and obamas fast and furious fiasco.
Bush started that program. Weak gun laws to mexico created the risk to border agents.
the bush program was a different one and it actually tracked the guns , it was done in conjunction the mexican govt. fast and furious is a different operation and did not track the guns.
fast and furious came from your boy Bushs program. fast and furious did not let guns walk at all. It simly investigated and attempted to identify the individuals who were sending guns to mexico. They found our conservative gun laws were too weak.
That is why our great 1st responders areat risk. Because of weak conservative gun laws.
Lets vote out politicians who support weak gun laws
WRONG. the bush program was called "wide receiver". that program ws an attempt to build a case against drug cartels and gun smugglers. the purpose of fast and furious ws to build a cse against the second amendment. "wide receiver" began in 2005, it involved 1400 guns ALL with RFID trackers. and all were tracked. the program involved the doj and arizona. the mexican govt ws kept fully informed. 1400 arrests were made as a result of this program. when the atf found out that the smugglers were taking out the tracking devices , the program was shut down in 2007. in all it involved 1400 guns. fast and furious ws started in 2009 and involved 2000 guns.none on them had any tracking devises. no effort was made to track them.4 federal agencies in 5 states and 10 cities were involved. in contrast to "wide receiver"," fast and furious" had no contact with the mexican govt. the program was closed down after the deaths of 2 federal agents and 200 mexicans were murdered. the bush program along with the mexican govt was trying to build a case against the drug cartels. holder and obama were trying to build a case against the 2nd amendment and american gun dealers.
The Bush program failed. Because they had no intention of cutting off their gun buying customers.
The gun dealers who sell guns that go to criminals should be punished. Unrelated to the 2nd amendment. They put profits ahead of our good 1st responders.
You support that?
We should go afterthe gun dealers. 2nd amendments allows us to be armed! not the right to sell guns to criminals.
You support that?
you are such a moron. the bush program was a success, 1400 arrested. the obama/doj program a failure that resulted in murder. when selling a gun do you actually think a criminal , when asked " are you a criminal"? will answer "yes"? on the nj application to buy a gun , this is one of the questions,..paraphrased,,...............do you intend to or have you been involved with anything to overthrow the usa govt? who would answer yes to that? certainly not a criminal. criminal will aways have guns.
Insults=weak arguments
Bush program failed because thousands of people died from illegal guns during his presidency in the drug wars.
Criminals will continue getting guns while people fight reasonable controls on selling them. Track the guns find thedealers who sold 'em. And put those criminals in jail!
the bush program was STOPPED when the criminals were taking the tracking dvices off the guns. before that happened , there were 1400 arrests. the fast and furious guns had NO tracking devices and resulted in over 200 mexican nationals murderd, and 2 federal agents murdered.
And thousands died during the Bush years (mexicans, and Americans).
The hero Brian Terry was not the 1st American to die.
In any event the thing all these deaths have in common is the illegal guns. We gotta stop gettin guns to criminals.
How could you possibly support giving guns to the criminals that killed the hero Brian Terry?
you really dont understand what fast & furious is about.
I guess I'm just not as smart as you.
But I can say without hesitation that we should make every effort to stop providing guns to criminals.
You are so smart you can't get past your gun rights extremism to support meaningful reasonable rules to punish those responsible for providing criminals with guns.
Peace
nj has a 6 points of ID requirement to renew your drivers license. It is not a problem unless you're an illegal.
Well, here is another example of "big government" intruding in peoples lives. But I guess the reason is because "big government" can't enforce the constitutional laws so they throw it back on the states who in turn throw it back on their citizens.
in nj passport = 4 points, current photo license = 1 pt, credit card bill with home address, birth certificate = 4 pts, gun purchase card = 3 pts. you can get a non driver ID the same way.
what if initiate large-scale boycott? Very low level of Voter appearance in countries with low democracy like Russia leads to REELECTION. Im talking about established standards and all that. If you got choice between nothing and nothing, you wouldn't take it. otherwise you'll get nothing, anyways
By voter suppression, are you talking about requiring ID to vote? Because if you are, do you also support not having to show ID when you buy alcohol or cigarettes? Or not showing ID when you get on an aircraft?
You guys are about as diluted as it gets. If people don't have an ID that's their problem. How hard is it to go to the DMV and get an ID card? Not a DL, but just an ID card. It takes a birth certificate and 8 dollars. Big fucking deal. If people can't manage that then they shouldn't be able to vote.
I stand with this shmuck - who told the truth
Pennsylvania state Rep. Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, is putting the national election spotlight back on his home state. He said a new voter ID law in Pennsylvania could help Mitt Romney win the state.
This will effect over 700,000 voters in Pennsylvania – mostly seniors, minorities, and students.
Turzai listed the Castle Doctrine law, pro-life regulations and a new voter ID law as items Republicans have passed in Pennsylvania. The House Majority Leader then said
the voter ID law "is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."
The law goes into effect in the general election. All voters must show a photo ID at the polls before they are allowed to vote.
The New York Times reports some colleges and universities in Pennsylvania will have to make changes to student IDs to allow some students to vote. The changes would make it harder for younger voters and minorities to cast ballots.
Mark Nicastre told PoliticsPA.com claims the state's GOP agenda "simply helps their donors and political allies. ... Democrats are focused on protecting all Pennsylvanians' right to vote."
Turzai alleges voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania in the past. Turzai spokesman Stephen Miskin also told PoliticsPA.com "the Republican presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to voter ID." President Bush launched a voter fraud investigation throughout all 50 states.
The Bush investigation – after a full ten years investigating the entire country - found 87 voter fraud cases.
"All voters must show a photo ID at the polls before they are allowed to vote." Is this not a reasonable request?
So my question to you is this. Why don't minorities have a drivers license OR an ID card? Why would the requirement effect seniors and students? Are you saying that seniors and students don't have ID's? If so you're either smoking crack or your parents were brother and sister.
Most seniors have ID. Most students have ID. MOST PEOPLE have ID's. Those who don't are most likely illegal immigrants. And who cares if they do or don't because they SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Which leads me to my next question. Why don't Democrats want people to show ID's when participating in something as important as voting? Is it because if they require IDs illegal immigrants won't be able to vote and most illegals vote Democrat? I think so.
Bottom line, I have to show ID when I buy alcohol, cigarettes and anything else that would be considered an "adult" purchase. Why would voting be any different?
This argument is so transparent and stupid and I GUARANTEE you that if there was a group of people who always voted Republican yet shouldn't be allowed to vote at all, you twits would be all over "supressing" their vote.
Pennsylvania state Rep. Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, is putting the national election spotlight back on his home state. He said a new voter ID law in Pennsylvania could help Mitt Romney win the state.
This will effect over 700,000 voters in Pennsylvania – mostly seniors, minorities, and students.
Turzai listed the Castle Doctrine law, pro-life regulations and a new voter ID law as items Republicans have passed in Pennsylvania. The House Majority Leader then said
the voter ID law "is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."
The law goes into effect in the general election. All voters must show a photo ID at the polls before they are allowed to vote.
The New York Times reports some colleges and universities in Pennsylvania will have to make changes to student IDs to allow some students to vote. The changes would make it harder for younger voters and minorities to cast ballots.
Mark Nicastre told PoliticsPA.com claims the state's GOP agenda "simply helps their donors and political allies. ... Democrats are focused on protecting all Pennsylvanians' right to vote."
Turzai alleges voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania in the past. Turzai spokesman Stephen Miskin also told PoliticsPA.com "the Republican presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to voter ID." President Bush launched a voter fraud investigation throughout all 50 states.
The Bush investigation – after a full ten years investigating the entire country - found 87 voter fraud cases.
Requiring somebody to have an ID to vote is common sense.
There is no voter fraud, and requiring people to show ID is not a big deal.
This is nothing more than a gigantic diversion from the media, just like they always do.
The entire country is arguing over who gets the benefit from a rule that will have no affect on outcomes, that wasnt a problem to begin with.
A battle over two bought out parties, mind you. Typical Americans to get their eye off the prize as usual. Why unite to fight the big one when we can bicker over nonsense?
Voter supression of two corporate parties.....
You , again, are all the proof we need that much work is to be done....
Idiot.