Forum Post: Are you even thinking?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 4:30 p.m. EST by Bengolly
(9)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Okay, I agree with you – I am pissed off!
I lost my job two years ago and, while I can find a minimum wage job, I can't find one that covers all of my expenses, such as child care.
I am FURIOUS that my hard-earned taxpayer dollars were spent to bail out big banks that turned around and gave out six-figure bonuses, did not give money to struggling homeowners as promised, and then levied fees on consumers. But guess what? I am ALSO furious at the petty, selfish unions that drove businesses like auto companies into the ground because of unrealistic demands. High-level union bosses make six figure salaries and multi-million dollar pension deals just like the bankers -- and MY MONEY paid for it!
Like you, I am also pissed off that no one has been held accountable for this mess.
But I have more news for you: It is OBAMA’s Secretary of Treasury that lobbied for more bank bailouts, and lobbied AGAINST eliminating the bonuses. It is OBAMA’s Attorney General that has failed to prosecute those who actually caused the problem. It is OBAMA’s Secretary of Energy that threw money at a failing solar energy company founded by a big Democratic donor, AFTER it already defaulted on a first round of loans, AFTER restructuring the next loan to screw taxpayers, and AFTER repeated warnings that it was a bad investment. It is OBAMA that is spreading half-truths about how his grand plans will be paid for.
So much for Mr. “Hope and Change.”
Sure, Congress is a problem -- neither the Republicans or Democrats are being honest either. But none of you want to acknowledge that the Republican-controlled House has passed dozens of bi-partisan bills, including A BUDGET, that are now languishing in the Democrat-controlled Senate. This is the same Democrat-controlled Congress that, along with Obama, wasted a whole year pushing though a healthcare bill that was not an urgent priority while our economy foundered.
Obama is just another self-serving hypocrite like the rest of them.
The Occupy Wall Street people blame half the people responsible for this problem while defending the other half.
P.S. For my racist brothers who will try to call ME a racist for simply pointing out the truth: I am also a minority. I guess now you will just call me other names, like “Uncle Tom,” instead of actually studying the issues, thinking for yourself, and engaging in a constructive dialogue.
I like what you said!
What is it that we are fighting for? The end of Capitalism? American communism? What is with all of the isms?
Let me tell you what I am fighting for. I am fighting for a global economy that is based on all of the natural resources of the planet. I am fighting for a true democracy that is detached from profit-seeking institutions. I am fighting for the principals that America was truly founded upon; not the principals that Michelle Bachman, John Boehner, or Barack Obama understand. I lump all current politicians into one category: evil. Lacking morals. Lacking conscience.
I understand our problems to be so immense that if a true progressive took office he would not muffle them, nor elongate their existence. I do not believe that Barack Obama is fighting for the populous.
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Viva la Resistance!
Sounds great. Naive, but great.
So what is your SOLUTION?
Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
So you have presented a goal, but not a solution. A solution contains action items to reach the goal.
Sorry I can't plan the entire revolution for you...
That's the problem. OWS is just a spinning wheel.
You're looking for a revolution to tell you:
Answer:
The problems are not "clear," they are very complex. The inter-relationship between many of the people and organizations you are protesting are very subtle and indirect. Pension funds which your average worker contributed to, for example, invested in many of the same securities that "evil" bankers did, and for the same reason -- profit.
There is no single, or even simple, cause of this problem. Subsequently, there is no single or simple solution. Insisting that there is is simply parroting political rhetoric that demonizes the bad-guy-of-the-day for a bump in political leverage.
I disagree, it's very simple to me. And this is not because I parrot political rhetoric, it's because I understand the value of governmental and economic systems.
You make a valid argument that the inter-relationship or organizations makes it harder to pin-point the problems. I would argue that if you work your way up the money supply, you will find the culprit. What is the root of the global money supply? The Federal Reserve Board. Eradicate the manipulator of the money supply and so too will you eradicate many social problems.
Yes, you bring up a good point. The Fed is at the root of the problem, but I disagree that it is the only one at the root. I also agree that if you work your way up the money supply you will find culprits, but you will find many, not just one.
Take the housing bust, for example. Here are some "culprits" I can think of just off the top of my head:
Irresponsible homeowners who borrowed more than they could afford
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who required Fannie and Freddie to give those loans to people who could not afford them
Housing inspectors and real estate agents who benefited from overvaluing a house
Lenders who did not bother to verify borrower creditworthiness because they were planning to just sell off the loans anyway
Rating agencies that gave AAA ratings to those bad securities
Investment companies and funds that bought those securitized loans without actually doing due diligence
The Sec Treasury and the Obama administration for defending and bailing out the whole group of crooks without actually addressing the problem
At least we agree on this: eliminate the Fed!
Yea, most definitely. I wasn't suggesting eliminating the Fed is the end all and be all. But, if we can talk about eliminating the Fed on a national level the rest will follow.
Did you know that all the assassinated U.S. presidents opposed the federalizing of our currency?
Hmmmmmmmmmm. New World Order? HW Bush loved talking about NWO
Yes, I can see how you would interpret my post as anti-Obama rhetoric (though the term implies lack of substantive argument). I actually hold both parties responsible.
My rant showed frustration with those who are blinded by liberal ideology and cannot see how much damage Obama and his administration has actually done.
I disagree that most in the OSW movement feel Obama shares a measure of culpability in causing the problem. Most are merely spouting pro-Obama and anti-Republican rhetoric.
actually, your just venting anti obama rhetoric while most people agree that obama and co are part of the problem. I agree obama is a pwn and an ignorant tool. This movement is not about taking down obama specifically- but taking down all of corporate oligarchy generally. That certainly includes taking out the trash of all dems and republicans in office.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150343790359248&set=a.10150264906064248.348293.511989247&type=1&theater
I wish this was a satire, then it would be hilarious.
As is, it's just stupid.
You have a right to your opinion, but so does everyone else. That is Freedom of Speech. Please respect the differences in others. This is a sign of maturity. Name calling and snide remarks are a display of immaturity. See the difference?
Sure, but there is an awful lot of it going on in the OWS movement. Did you hear about the idiot who crapped on a police car?
That's mature?