Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr

Forum Post: Are we just "Useful Idiots" to NYC OWS?

Posted 11 years ago on Dec. 9, 2011, 6:58 p.m. EST by rockyracoon2 (276)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Is this the term given to all those in this movement who thought they were really part of something for the betterment masses? Are we all really just being used, such that those in NYC OWS can sell us out to a political party?

What about all those who have truly risked life and limb and had their possessions stolen, tents, backpacks, books, etc. and gave from their hearts and minds, are they too Useful Idiots?



Read the Rules
[-] 12 points by Doc4the99 (591) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

possibly. dangerous games are being played. but the foot soldiers on the ground protesting are the reason why we have the national spot light even as the main stream media spins all the negative PR towards our [occupy's] way...

I like what ret. Police Officer Ray Lewis who supports OWS had to say:

"“I noticed the 1% trying to marginalize these Occupiers as out of the mainstream of America,” he said. “They were trying to tell mainstream Americans, ‘These are not your type, you can’t associate with them, their concerns are not your concerns,’ so they interviewed the guys with the pink hair and the tattoos and all of that. I realized what they were doing so I said, ‘I’m coming down there and I challenge Wall Street to marginalize me." ~Ray Lewis http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/phillynow/2011/12/09/retired-ppd-captain-and-occupy-wall-street-protester-ray-lewis-wont-take-off-his-uniform/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=retired-ppd-captain-and-occupy-wall-street-protester-ray-lewis-wont-take-off-his-uniform

true American hero... Courage to stand up and see this movement for what is not-- see through Fox news spinning this as Anarchy or most media sources simply reporting on how camps are being dismantled...

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

yes, we the masses get marginalized away, just as real issues and concerns, and instead we're fed the same crap over and over. anyhow, millions are waking up both to lame complicity of msm and controlled demolition in the WTC on 9/11. thank you for posting this

[-] 9 points by resistence (12) 11 years ago

( "Are we all really just being used, such that those in NYC OWS can sell us out to a political party?" )

I think one would have to be very weak minded to be sold out by the movement. How you vote is your business! I sure as hell wouldn’t be taking voting advice of OWS people, especially on this site!

That would be like watching Fox news and believing everything they say and then voting as they suggest. Not too bright!

I do not think OWS supporters here or on the ground will ever be looked upon as useful idiots. The movement grows daily, everyday more people become aware and supportive of it.


Maybe by election time there will be politicians that address some of the concerns. I am sure those that play us off as a joke will have a different opinion after the elections.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

Let's hope you are right. We all keep trying doing best we can!

[-] 1 points by resistence (12) 11 years ago

I really don't get why you feel the way you do. I read a bunch of your post and you seem depressed and disappointed.

What happen to make you feel this way? I see signs of progress and new involvement daily. What makes you feel the way you do?

[-] 2 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

i haven't yet been to a camp. well, i went to a small one with about 10 people, but yet to have experience of energy from being in large camp. So only observe from internet, and little interaction with locals in my area.

I'm in the midwest, and seems no one gives a shit about it here, seems only thing they know is it's a bunch of nuts who shit in the park and leave their trash behind. here is mostly the watch tv do what they say mentality, so i suppose it's largely to be expected. I try to speak about how many brilliant and passionate people are involved, and that the heart of this movement is what America is about, defending our constitution, our freedom, etc. but mostly seems no one around here cares, just only believe their tv, and/or too busy with shopping and loads of pressure. usual.

i think this forum is maybe the only place in the world where we have true freedom of speech, which can reach a large international group. Same like i suppose at the occupy camps. i believe this movement is the best most healthy thing that has happened in America in years, at least 10+ years, and outside of something yet unforeseen, seems our only hope to turn things around.

Quite honestly, initially, i couldn't believe it, that this movement was actually arising, and i think the rest of the world couldn't either, as so many thought and perhaps still feel, that many Americans don't care, and even if they did, that we wouldn't make sincere effort to the point of a mass movement on this scale, to speak truth to power, to speak out for injustice. this was exciting, it gave hope ...

so when i first learned about it, and first went to website, i was pretty excited, but then i started reading about rules in forum limiting free speech, it didn't add up, how can we have a movement claiming to be for the people, for our constitution, about first amendment rights and so on, say that we can't talk about this or that.

Ok, so i kept on, and then i started hearing about people in camps freezing and others spending occupy money to stay in $700/night hotel. i understand there are always expenses, but a movement for by and about the people one would think they could find cheaper room, anyway, that's just what it is, then i started hearing about ad busters trying to tell people to do this and that, and thought well, isn't this supposed to be a truly leaderless movement, and if so, why are they acting on movements behalf, was this agreed upon by delegates or however the representation is supposed to work.

then i see many of the police trashing the people, treating them like livestock, etc. trashing their personal property, their tents, backpacks, throwing away whole libraries, so many books, throwing books into dumpsters reminded me of book burning you would learn about or only hear about in dark age or in some terrible dictatorship, and all this is supposed to be public property or community space, places for us to go and be free, places made by us for us Americans where these people have set up. parks, community centers, etc.

And no dialogue with "elected" officials, rather just tear down and destroy. no interaction from our so-called gov leaders, just ignore mostly and continue like we don't exist. and media seem like always frame the movement in negative way, but i understand that's to be expected. they are gatekeepers, same likes of Dem Now and people like Norm Chomsky

then in past weeks i've gotten more active with the forum, specifically trying to raise awareness about 9/11. same like many others, and we all see the massive efforts of other entities making defacing of posts who claim to work for OWS or in some way related to OWS. now even if that's not true, i don't see effort by OWS to either discourage this or encourage free sharing of ideas about 9/11.

I understand MSM blocks virtually all open discuss on this topic, labels it and marginalizes it, etc. but i would think here with a movement claiming to be about the 99% they OWS mods would not allow other entity to have free reign in the forum to smash any and all open free communication on this subject, and not only this either, others as well.

Someone had a post about illuminati and it also got defaced. i don't know about all this stuff, but if group professes to be about freedom for masses, you would think they could adjust the code such that any one entity can't rule the forum, rather let it be free and let people decide what they want to read or post or comment or whatever. let be

But they don't, it's almost like they're ok with it, like the rules say, indirectly, they don't want free speech... so anyway, we all work around it, same like life,

further, 9/11 investigation is not included in the 99% Declaration. i think to myself, ok, it's not the only issue, of course there are others, 23 thus far, but if they're asking to do away with the Fed, then why not also ask about a new/real investigation into the event of our lifetime. that f**&^% day and since then have turned our world upside down, not just here in our place of birth, but i travel a bit and see the pain. and although i haven't been to the hardest hit places, i feel such deep pain, as many of us do, for the massive slaughter of both our fellow humans and Mother Nature, and blah bah blah

So, it's the usual battle to create awareness, as you probably know.. i count 6 items of the 23 that relate to 9/11 in the 99% Declaration. we all know it's one of the elephants in our room. This whole country knows this. anyway...

and then, moving on, i keep hearing people making posts about who is going to be the OWS leader, and i make a few comments here and there, as do others, that it is a leaderless revolution, and i get replies like we are the world or whatever that song is. and that's it only a matter of when

Also along the way i've learned there are companies/entities which teach people how to set up revolutions, it's their job, etc.

then someone brought up to me yesterday that OWS NYC wasn't paying heed to the 99% Declaration anymore, and i questioned some more, and they or others here and there said something about how some of the main people there have already cashed/"co-opted" out whatever this means, and something about how we're all just "useful idiots" to them.

yeah, something like this, even below in this post Simon says something about it, i'm told if i start scratching around it will become more clear. ok, guess i'm naive fine not first time nor last probably and i can understand as we all know it's a twisted game with many agenda, but guess it all made me feel down that masses interest for some really isn't what they care about, well, so be it, like u said people can all have their agenda

and, the heart of this movement will carry forward. we know that, i believe that, i'll try to be positive, i want to be, i want to believe, just feels rug pulled out at the moment, so that's why i said guess we all just keep trying the best we can. anyway, thanks to you and many others who are much more brave and active for being out there on front lines so to speak. thanks also for caring enough to ask how i felt or why. God bless us all, we're just trying to stop this nightmare that either wasn't there when we were kids or we were too young to understand. peace bro/sis

and, I know i need to quit crying about, and just get back to being the change.

[-] 1 points by resistence (12) 11 years ago

OK, thanks and good luck.

[-] 5 points by Restorefreedomtoall1776 (272) from Bayonne, NJ 11 years ago

This attempt at Divide and Conquer won't work.

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

It seems to work each time, unless all this "backfires", i'm not sure why it won't continue..

Unless the masses become really aware/conscious of what's happening, it seems their play will continue

[-] 5 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 11 years ago

People who defend the institutions that are robbing the american people blind are the useful idiots.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

yes, although idiots seems harsh, rather don't yet understand.

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 11 years ago

I'm just using the term you used.

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

yeah, sorry. i agree and although i feel like an idiot since trying to support a fraud of sorts, at least like many of us, we gave/give because we believe change is necessary, we believe in being a part of voice of the masses.

The question remains, will a community still carry forward with the ideals that have been started, even though those with their "agenda" have already sold out, or whatever it is they've done...

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 11 years ago

So we're protesting. I don't see what the big deal is. Yes there are anarchist, but there have been anarchists in many if not most social movements in the past. It doesn't mean anybody is going to force their point of view on anybody.

[-] 5 points by shoozTroll (17632) 11 years ago

Teabaggers have been the most "useful idiots" of all time.

Long live OWS!

[-] 4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

"Setting up our own FEMA camps" is something that I heard someone say the other day.

Kinda interesting...

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

another sign the current so-called leaders have no interest in a true democracy, and seems those that resist their ways will suffer, unless there is significant change

and we can see there's no interest in any change, any true adherence to the constitution or representation of the people, by lack of true dialogue and fierce police response.

Seems clear corp/gov want us all to simply keep slaving away, while they carry forward with their world domination/destruction plan. something like this...

[-] 2 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

I thought this 99% Declaration was the foundation of this movement, and now I hear it's not going to be used. Am I just a stupid ignorant child from the midwest who believed this movement was about betterment for the masses, and now realizing that we're being used so the OWS NYC can sell us out to a political party? Is this a sell out same like customer segregated funds and 3000+ American lives and millions upon millions of lives worldwide.

Is that what this whole movement boils down to, another sell out???

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 11 years ago

Where did you get the idea that NYC was going to sell out? I haven't heard this. Also, I just read a few nights ago that the 99% Declaration group have already set up a meeting with the Philly city hall people about the General Assembly planned for next July and so far it's moving forward. I also think one mistake people make is in thinking that the NYCGA calls the shots for the whole movement. This is not true, the NYCGA only has a say in what the New York people do, not the rest of us.

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

well, i've had several replies to different posts and comments i've made, that give me strong suspicion of this. Read the comment below this one, and you can see and example. Most in the movement, the masses, don't really know, and think it's about them, but what i'm learning is we're all just "Useful Idiots" to those at the top of the movement, such they can gain traction so to speak, such they can then more easily accomplish their agenda to sell out to political party, or something like this..

July is long way off, and who knows, but now i smell a rat.

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

There are professional groups/companies that go around and train how to start revolutions, or at the least, to get some momentum going, as in case of OWS. These entities are usually hired by another entity who has agenda to sway opinion or exploit or utilize or profit from or on and on..

Most probably neither of these entities really care about the real issues, rather they pretend they do, such they can elicit/provocate/leverage support from the serfdom, who obviously care very much about the real issues.

It's a set up. But, it can backfire...

and that's why they so adamantly push down any speech discussion debate call it what you will about 9/11 or MF Global and CME stealing customer's segregated funds, for example. and there's many more

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

What political party?

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

i don't know

[-] 0 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

agenda 21 and the one world govt.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 11 years ago

makes no sense what you are saying

[-] 0 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

do search on AGENDA 21

[-] -1 points by simplesimon (121) 11 years ago

Now, Rocky, you are starting to get it. OWS was never about YOU. It is about something completely different, out of the mainstream, and, thankfully, mostly harmless and a waste of time as you are now learning.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

So, if it's not about the masses and their issues, then what is this "something completely different" that it's about? can you please enlighten me?

[-] 1 points by afarmer (65) 11 years ago

Change is coming. Labor leaders will takeover profits by enforcing a police state, but only if the economy collapses and chaos (martial law) prevails. And that's where OWS comes in to play. This is an old playbook.


And here's the starter of OWS (with Obama and Soros groups). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQQiFW2YDLM&feature=related

"Every movement that seeks to enslave a country, every dictatorship or potential dictatorship, needs some minority group as a scapegoat which it can blame for the nation’s troubles and use as a justification of its own demands for dictatorial powers. In Soviet Russia, the scapegoat was the bourgeoisie; in Nazi Germany, it was the Jewish people; in America, it is the businessmen" Ayn Rand

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

OWS is our movement. Your concerns are exactly why I don't want formal leader and official statements for OWS.

I made this video at about the same time OWS started. It was posted to YouTube on September 21, 2011:


[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

whoa, that's you, right on brother! i saw your videos last week, they're excellent and bless you for speaking from your heart!!!

yes, this is suppose to be a leaderless movement, a true community, or at least early stages of forming one. This is what the masses who have rallied behind it believe, and now it seems to me they're/we're being used.

below comment from Gnomunny says that Philly OWS is still pushing forward with the 99% Declaration, but who knows..

I'm not a big fan of wikipedia, as it's subject to propaganda and manipulation like anything mainstream, but here's some info about community from MS Peck. He wrote some great books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck

regarding leadership in a community, he says, A group of all leaders: Members harness the “flow of leadership” to make decisions and set a course of action. It is the spirit of community itself that leads and not any single individual.

And it was my understanding this or similar is what the delegates were/are doing in many locations throughout the country. Perhaps i'm wrong...

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

Leadership, management, representation, control are often combined in what people call leadership. I would like to know how many OWSers support 9/11 Truth. How many are even aware of the issues.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

It's currently not mentioned in the 99% Declaration if that gives any indication. And, based on the forum rules, it appears the guys who made this website also aren't interested.

I'm guessing they all know about it, but like most refuse to get involved with it because a. either they still believe official fairy tale or b. they know things are not as we've been told, but they see it as too divisive issue for their agenda.

This said, in this forum, same like msm, there's certainly a rabid aggressive all out attempt to squash any enlightenment about 9/11, as you know...

I'm still not clear what is their agenda, and more i reflect on things, i don't think it really involves following through with the 99% Declaration. I think that was just a ploy to get people motivated and on the band wagon.

what are your thoughts?

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

I don't care what OWS "leadership" does. My goal is to reach the leaderless in OWS.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

good point. mine too. thank you

[-] -2 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

you have a formal leader, you just don't know it. your leader and planner is van jones , funded by soros and his many organizations.

[-] 3 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

I have a leader. The same leader all can follow. Ourselves.

[-] -2 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

wrong. van jones, george soros are the planners funders and leaders.

[-] 2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

Van Jones doesn't bother me. If you need to follow him you may be well served. I have no need to follow someone else. I follow reason and conscience.

[-] -2 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

read about van jones and acorn.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

Van Jones 9/11 truther is more interesting.

[-] -1 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

van jones= hater of America.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

9/11 Truth is Patriotic. I painted this banner.


[-] -1 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

the answer is YES!!. "useful idiots", when the goal ( societal disruption and chaos) as been achieved, you be of no further use ( or value) to them.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

i wonder how the masses will feel when they learn as i am, that they are being used, both as relates to this movement and on much larger scale about issues like 9/11

[-] 0 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

9/11 is an issue?

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

9/11 Truth is essential. You will find the people in the 9/11 Truth movement have been paying attention to the Wall Street banksters for a long time. OWS is new on the scene.

[-] -1 points by fandango (241) 11 years ago

ows is not new, it's been planned for a long time.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

9/11 Truth is not new. It's been growing for years. I don't care what the OWS "leaders" do. I want to reach the participants.

[-] -1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

any from OWS can answer?

[-] -1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

I suppose everyone's gotta learn sometime... :)

[-] -2 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

Thrasymaque is a useful idiot.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

there's no need to post the same image in the same thread twice

hey, that's programmable

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 11 years ago

That's the idiot part.

[-] -3 points by tomcat68 (298) 11 years ago

Useful Idiots from the beginning.

the Powder was poured and fuse lit by the great Liberal Community Organizer team that now occupies the white house in order to distract the truth and Blame anything Else BUT Obama for the Disasters he has caused.

OWS IS and Always Has been about Pointing the Finger of Blame Away from its Messiah and towards anything Barack Osama claims it is.

like you didn't know he was anti capitolism when you voted for him? you didn't know he was for BIG government, you didn't read his book on how he hates America? not bright enough to see he Blames this system in the same way Every Other Islamic Terrorist Blames the US.

just like OWS.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

your idol not mine

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

yes, perhaps, i believe he is a puppet, like most presidents, either willing or unwilling, knowingly or unknowingly, but still do what they're told. Groups like PNCA, Neocons, AIPAC, FRB, defense co and reconstruction co et al seem to be pulling strings of their play

[+] -4 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 11 years ago

OWS has turned into the usual hard left suspects, anarchists, marxists, Rastafarians, whatever. Scratch a little and ANSWER will be front and center. The original protestors have long since been co-opted and been relegated to their usual useful idiot role...why do you ask?

[-] 0 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

I guess i wanted to believe we could start, at least in very early stages, a true community, where people, the masses, would stop being shit on, manipulated, lied to, abused and overall treated like slaves.

i travel around and see so much pain, and no so-called leaders care, no one speaking truth and about love, sharing and community. Only about money, hate and fear.

Enough of their play