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Forum Post: are the banks still in business? is wallstreet still draining the economy?

Posted 7 years ago on Nov. 29, 2012, 12:27 a.m. EST by gestopomillyy (1695)
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What happened to the real issues?



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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

"What happened to the real issues ?" - Well, you just went and asked a fundamental question, which my 'significant other' spoke of only yesterday. Thus, with a nod to her & re. your post, I'll muse - "multum in parvo" ('much in little') & though I can't answer your very legitimate question without recourse to unevidenced, subjective opinion - I'll post the following 6 links in order to back up your point and post :

From the article - "If a drunk driver crashed his speeding rental car into your house and killed your spouse, you would be outraged if law enforcers took bribes and refused to give the driver a blood test. If the judge then gave the killer a small fine and ordered you to pay the fine and pay for all the damages, you'd be outraged. If the government then handed the drunk-driver keys to a bigger faster rental car, handed the drunk driver an even bigger bottle of whiskey, and then gave you the rental bill; you'd storm Washington, blizzard elected officials with protests and organize friends and associates to vote these malefactors, the elected officials that betrayed your trust, out of office."

Further - "Yet, we've remained largely silent in the face of the same sort of behaviour by Wall Street and Washington. Bonus-seeking bankers crashed into Main Street's economy and ran control frauds within banks that would have failed without taxpayer bailouts. Bureaucrats and elected officials bailed them out without demanding consequences. Bankers are revving their engines again in credit derivatives, currency derivatives, and commodities trades. "Financial reform" addresses none of the latter problems."

From the item - The following are 20 facts about hunger in America that will blow your mind

#1. According to one calculation, the number of Americans on food stamps now exceeds the combined populations of “Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming.”

#2. In October 2008, 30.8 million Americans were on food stamps. By August 2012 that number had risen to 47.1 million Americans.

#3. Right now, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of every four American children is on food stamps.

#4. It is projected that half of all American children will be on food stamps at least once before they turn 18 years of age.

#5. According to new numbers that were just released by the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of Americans living in poverty increased to a new all-time record high of 49.7 million last year.

#6. The number of Americans living in poverty has increased by about 6 million over the past four years.

#7. Today, about one out of every four workers in the United States brings home wages that are at or below the federal poverty level.

#8. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the poverty rate for children living in the United States is about 22 percent.

#9. Overall, approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be either “low income” or impoverished.

#10. In the USA today, close to 100 million Americans are considered to be either “poor” or “near poor”.

#11. One university study estimates that child poverty costs the U.S. economy $500 billion each year.

#12. Households that are led by a single mother have a 31.6 percent poverty rate.

#13. In 2010, 42 percent of all single mothers in the United States were on food stamps.

#14. According to the National Center for Children in Poverty, 36.4 percent of all children in Philadelphia are living in poverty, 40.1 percent of all children in Atlanta are living in poverty, 52.6 percent of all children in Cleveland are living in poverty and 53.6 percent of all children in Detroit are living in poverty.

#15. Since 2007, the number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by 30%.

#16. Family homelessness in the Washington D.C. region (one of the wealthiest regions in the entire country) has risen 23 percent since the last recession began.

#17. There are 314 counties in the USA where at least 30% of the children are facing food insecurity.

#18. More than 20 million U.S. children rely on school meal programs to keep from going hungry.

#19. Right now, more than 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one welfare program run by the federal government. And that does not even count Social Security or Medicare.

#20. According to the Natural Resources Defense Council, approximately 40 percent of all food in America “is routinely thrown away by consumers at home, discarded or unserved at restaurants or left unharvested on farms.”

~^~ Please use the ICH link in order to access all embedded corroborating links for the list above ~^~

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

Awesome and essential, extracts and links! Never Give Up!! Go Occupy The Issues!!!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

"Let Your Life Be a Friction to Stop the Machine" (A Must Watch Video) :

A brief and crucial history of the United States. Please send this video to your contact list and tweet often, so that we send it viral and let us remember - "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people" (John Adams - Second President - 1797 - 1801).

"Now is the first day of a new beginning. Each one - Reach One ; Each One - Teach One."

"A Constitution was written that came to be regarded as American Holy Writ. Its central purposes were to defend private property and suppress mass democracy. It has fulfilled both those mandates beyond the wildest dreams of its creators. Once the existing oligarchy was secure in law and the native people largely exterminated, the ruling class increased its wealth and power fantastically using the government as its enabler, exploiting to the limit the device of chartered corporations." Solidarity A4C. Never give up.

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

RE your link: "I wish I'd have said that ('cause I sure been feeling it)!"

An excellent video and, agreed, a must-watch. You continue to simultaneously inform and impress, my friend.

I was doing the dishes a few days ago, and thinking about the Israeli-Palestinian situation, when a classic came on the radio that seemed especially apropos right now, so, for what it's worth:


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Thanx 'g', nice tune & was that Neil Young on guitar ? Also m8, on the chance that you haven't seen it :

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

Brilliant and inspiring! I watched this last night with the kids, twice in two shifts, lol, so thank you again for all your excellent links. Education is key. Please try this thread - http://occupywallst.org/forum/item-poverty/ and why I ask will become obvious as you read it :) Never Give Up! Occupy The Issues!

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Excellent link to an excellent thread. Thanx A4C. "Occupy The Issues" - EXACTLY !!!

spero meliora ...

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

'The Revolution Is Love' : www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxHG3jUqdQ0 [4:51] - is an excellent short video, which I recommend to everyone. The other two links are great and I do hope Leonard Cohen is right about 'Democracy' and I too hope for better things.

A link for you - http://www.nationofchange.org/iceland-did-it-rightand-everyone-else-doing-it-wrong-1354283363 - Never Give Up! Go Occupy!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Excellent link re. Iceland ! From which, I append the following excerpt :

  • "Bloomberg reports : Iceland holds some key lessons for nations trying to survive bailouts after the island’s approach to its rescue led to a “surprisingly” strong recovery, the International Monetary Fund’s mission chief to the country said. Iceland’s commitment to its program, a decision to push losses on to bondholders instead of taxpayers and the safeguarding of a welfare system that shielded the unemployed from penury helped propel the nation from collapse toward recovery, according to the Washington-based fund."

We need a G.I.A.B.O - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGRu1uqJGkY and Solidarity to you 'A4C' !!

dum vita est, spes est ...

[-] 2 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

I love George Carlin and very much like Max Keiser too and indeed you were one of those who helped bring 'The Keiser Report' to my attention as I used to just read here before I made my 'Inside Job' post. The kids loved the foot-tapping tune btw, lol, so thanks. So, 'to move forward, we must learn from our progressive past' - http://www.nationofchange.org/move-forward-we-must-learn-our-progressive-past-1354460419 - Never Give Up! Go Occupy!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

The Parasitic Bankster Scum are increasingly under focus and light, love and logic is anathema to them. Thanx for that interesting link and please further consider :

fiat lux ; fiat amor ; fiat iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

Goldman Sachs' Occupation of The Worst Excesses of Finance Capitalism has been integral to the GFC of 2007/8 and their true nature and influence is little known or understood. Thank you for your excellent links. Solidarity to 'light, love and reason' :)

From the article - which took some real reading, lol - ' Classical economists developed the labor theory of value to isolate economic rent, which they defined as the excess of market price and income over the socially necessary cost of production (value ultimately reducible to the cost of labor). A free market was one free of such “unearned” income – a market in which prices reflected actual necessary costs of production or, in the case of public services and basic infrastructure, would be subsidized in order to make economies more competitive. Most reformers accordingly urged & expected - land, monopolies and banking privileges to be nationalized, or at least to have their free-lunch income taxed away.'

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

"Instead of promoting capital investment in an alliance with industry and government, financial planners have sponsored a travesty of free markets. Realizing that income not taxed is free to be capitalized, bought and sold on credit, and paid out as interest, bankers have formed an alliance between finance, insurance and real estate (FIRE) to free land rent and monopoly rent (as well as debt-leveraged “capital” gains) from taxation."

"The result is that today’s economy is burdened with property and financial claims that Marx and other critics deemed “fictitious” – a proliferation of financial overhead in the form of interest and dividends, fees and commissions, exorbitant management salaries, bonuses and stock options, and “capital” gains (mainly debt-leveraged land-price gains). And to cap matters, new financial modes of exploiting labor have been innovated, headed by pension-fund capitalism and privatization of Social Security. As economic planning has passed from government to the financial sector, the alternative to public price regulation and progressive taxation is debt peonage."

The two paragraphs above are excerpted from the article which rewards the slow and close read. As Matt Taibbi said of Goldman Sux & I paraphrase tho' his precise quote is googleable - 'they are like a giant vampire squid stuck on the face of humanity sucking out the life blood'. Solidarity and 'love, light & logic'.

lux, amor et iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

'Elizabeth Warren, a dogged consumer advocate whose critique of Wall Street excess was a centerpiece of her campaign, will join the Senate Banking Committee. Wall Street spent boatloads of money to prevent Warren’s election, but now, as the Center for Responsive Politics noted, she will have oversight of the rules and regulations under which banks operate: The securities and investments industry contributed just $245,000 to Warren and spent $3 million supporting her opponent Scott Brown, according to OpenSecrets data from mid-October. The industry was Brown’s top supporter.

The Financial/Insurance/Real Estate sector followed suit and contributed $6 million to Brown and a puny half-a-million to Warren. Businesses also favored Brown heavily, and his top contributors came straight from Wall Street. And though there wasn’t much outside spending in the race because of a pledge made by the two candidates, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, whose members include business and financial interests, spent $400,000 on the race in support of Brown and against Warren. Several Senate candidates supported by Wall Street wound up losing. As a member of the Banking Committee, Warren will have the opportunity to stand against both the watering down of the Dodd-Frank financial reform law and new misguided efforts to reduce limits on Wall Street.' - taken from - http://www.nationofchange.org/after-spending-9-million-defeat-her-wall-street-watches-sen-elect-warren-join-banking-committee-1354 .

Thanx for your very good excerpts above & I'm going to set some time aside this weekend just to reread that Dr. Michael Hudson article properly & Matt Taibbi rocks, btw. Never Give Up Occupying The Issues!

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Sen Warren is one of our (the 99%) best soldiers against the bankster 1% oligarchs.

Her election proves there is hope that we can mount a real defense against the anti 99% forces.

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

I see your point but Elizabeth Warren's election really proves that the electorate who voted for her are up for taking on 'the bankster 1% oligarchs' but 'the proof of the pudding will be in the eating', and - as co-option and corruption have so often been the oligarchs m.o., we await Elizabeths's actions with a real and growing hope, based upon her past words and actions. If she can be 50% of what the pro-99% Dennis Kucinich is/was in Congress, then we should consider ourselves blessed indeed.

We still need to apply pressure on La Warren because backsliding and selling-out has been such a feature of american politics for so long. We Must Never Give Up Occupying The Issues! Solidarity.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 7 years ago

Always pressure, Not just Sen Warren. ALL pols. One Senator will do it. We have other Sanders and I maybe others. Obviously the forces against the progressive change that will benefit the 99% are still greater than pro 99% forces.

This will be slow progess, years of hard work in the streets, and pressuring ALL pols! Slow progress, and setbacks.

That is what we have to look forward to. If we are patient and smart we will recognize this and stay strong, then we may succeed.



[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

Saying she should 'clean latrines' says nothing about Elizabeth Warren but much about you I think, so no wonder you deleted your comment.

If as shown by your less offensive comment below, you really think that Elizabeth Warren will bring 'extremism' - whereas most people in this country see, know and feel that it is our Corporate Controlled Politicians who are in the pockets of 'the banksters', then maybe it's you who is supporting 'extremism'!

Never Give Up Trying To Get A Clue!


[-] -3 points by lignite (-303) 7 years ago

She is smart and cannot take that away from her but she is also bringing more extremism to the Senate

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23286) 7 years ago

They are doing business as usual, same old, same old. What happened to the movement to reinstate Glass Steagall? What happened to the demands of the Declaration of the Occupation of NYC?

"As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!"

We need to get back to these issues.

[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

Excellent reminder. Back to basics! Never Give Up!! Go Occupy The Issues!!!

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23286) 7 years ago

Solidarity, A4C!

Nothing has changed since last year, so why all the apathy? The people need to wake up! Still, not one Wall Street executive has been held accountable for the Global Financial Crisis. They operate as usual, taking their bailouts and laughing as they go. Shameful.


[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 7 years ago

I agree and outrage is totally in order. While OWS is a good start and seeds are being sown, we all need to germinate and bloom towards justice, peace and a bw! Thank you for the strong comment and interesting link. Never Give Up! Go Occupy!

[-] 2 points by toobighasfailed (117) 7 years ago

Yes, and yes, and ... great question.

There's so much still going wrong on Wall Street, so much that demands outrage and attention. Did you see that the Treasury exempted foreign exchange swaps from Dodd-Frank? The implications are devastating: http://www.switchyourbank.org/safeguards_against_risky_derivative_deals

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

have they actually succeeded in distracting everyone from the real dangers

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) 7 years ago

This is spot on

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

The "REAL" issues were never determined. The closest thing to get there was the 100 page document of all the things that corporations have ever done wrong. Maybe it was a good strategy, maybe it wasnt. I think the numbers at GA's across the nation speak for themselves.

[-] -2 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 7 years ago

If wall steet was draining the economy why were all these companies paying stock dividends to their investors that include people who buy stocks and 401K investors?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

Lots of 401s are still dropping.

They got money by lay offs, shipping jobs overseas, Lowing wages, and so many more nasty, lazy things.

You didn't think they earned it did you.

[-] -2 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 7 years ago

Who is investing in thse companies - people - and it's the people who do invest whom will benefit - and they have an option - opt out if they want.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Yay - opt out of the gambling house where only the house wins - people - this is a good recommendation - Take your money away from wallstreet.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 7 years ago

Hey, there are a lot of people out there who invested in stocks and over the years became very wealthy. There are also lots of people out there who invested in stocks and over the years lots lots of money. It's all on how the money was invested.

So, if a person is losing money they maybe they sould look at doing something else with that money.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

The odds are against the small investor in this current wallstreet. Hell wallstreet is against the current small investor. Wallstreet did not lose in the economic meltdown - the small investor did. Nothing has changed to make future loss any different.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

Investment firms do most of the investing.

Investment firms reap most of the dividends, or at least the highest percentage..

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 7 years ago

Retirement funds as of June total over 18 trillion - 5 trillion of that is investments from firms or companies. So, there are a lot of individuals investing in 401K's in which returns are based on the S&P 500 index.

When that goes down so does investments, when that goes up so does investments.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

You've changed the subject.

[-] 0 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

are you saying that because dividends were being paid that the investors and corporations, the ones that work the stock exchange, were doing nothing wrong to get the money they got to pay the dividends with?

[-] 1 points by SteveKJR1 (8) 7 years ago

Well, if they are doing it leagally - no, they aren't doing nothing worng. If you don't like the laws its the government you need to go after.