Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: An Intro to Modern Anarchism (at Occupy Boston)

Posted 2 years ago on Sept. 9, 2012, 3:04 p.m. EST by struggleforfreedom80 (6584)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

175 Comments

175 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Anarchism means voluntary co-operation instead of forced participation. It means harmony and order in place of interference and disorder." (Alexander Berkman, in "Is Anarchy Possible ?" in 'ABC of Anarchism', 1929)

Your 3 posted videos and other information (eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism etc.) should be of real interest to people who have a disorganized and prejudicial view of Anarchism. Finally, to follow something that was posted by a well known forum-poster here some time ago :

~

Anarchy : A Definition ; What is Anarchism ?

Anarchism is the movement for social justice through freedom. It is concrete, democratic and egalitarian. It has existed and developed since the seventeenth century, with a philosophy and a defined outlook that have evolved and grown with time and circumstance. Anarchism began as what it remains today: a direct challenge by the underprivileged to their oppression and exploitation. It opposes both the insidious growth of state power and the pernicious ethos of possessive individualism, which, together or separately, ultimately serve only the interests of the few at the expense of the rest.

Anarchism promotes mutual aid, harmony and human solidarity, to achieve a free, classless society - a cooperative commonwealth. Anarchism is both a theory and practice of life. Philosophically, it aims for perfect accord between the individual, society and nature. In an anarchist society, mutually respectful sovereign individuals would be organised in non-coercive relationships within naturally defined communities in which the means of production and distribution are held in common.

Anarchists, are not simply dreamers obsessed with abstract principles. We know that events are ruled by chance, and that people’s actions depend much on long-held habits and on psychological and emotional factors that are often anti-social and usually unpredictable. We are well aware that a perfect society cannot be won tomorrow. Indeed, the struggle could last forever! However, it is the vision that provides the spur to struggle against things as they are, and for things that might be.

Whatever the immediate prospects of achieving a free society, and however remote the ideal, if we value our common humanity then we must never cease to strive to realise our vision. If we settle for anything less, then we are little more than beasts of burden at the service of the privileged few, without much to gain from life other than a lighter load, better feed and a cosier berth.

Ultimately, only struggle determines outcome, and progress towards a more meaningful community must begin with the will to resist every form of injustice. In general terms, this means challenging all exploitation and defying the legitimacy of all coercive authority. If anarchists have one article of unshakeable faith then it is that, once the habit of deferring to politicians or ideologues is lost, and that of resistance to domination and exploitation acquired, then ordinary people have a capacity to organise every aspect of their lives in their own interests, anywhere and at any time, both freely and fairly.

Anarchism encompasses such a broad view of the world that it cannot easily be distilled into a formal definition. Michael Bakunin, the man whose writings and example over a century ago did most to transform anarchism from an abstract critique of political power into a theory of practical social action, defined its fundamental tenet thus: In a word, we reject all privileged, licensed, official, and legal legislation and authority, even though it arise from universal suffrage, convinced that it could only turn to the benefit of a dominant and exploiting minority, and against the interests of the vast enslaved majority.

Anarchists do not stand aside from popular struggle, nor do they attempt to dominate it. They seek to contribute to it practically whatever they can, and also to assist within it the highest possible levels both of individual self-development and of group solidarity. It is possible to recognise anarchist ideas concerning voluntary relationships, egalitarian participation in decision-making processes, mutual aid and a related critique of all forms of domination in philosophical, social and revolutionary movements in all times and places.

Elsewhere, the less formal practices and struggles of the more indomitable among the propertyless and disadvantaged victims of the authority system have found articulation in the writings of those who on brief acquaintance would appear to be mere millenarian dreamers. Far from being abstract speculations conjured out of thin air, such works have, like all social theories, been derived from sensitive observation. They reflect the fundamental and uncontainable conviction nourished by a conscious minority throughout history that social power held over people is a usurpation of natural rights: power originates in the people, and they alone have, together, the right to wield it.

~

Also please see :

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ThomasKent (131) 2 years ago

No one should expect to observe textbook Anarchy in the real world any more than textbook Democracy. The movement toward smaller government and more deregulation has its limits: zero government and zero laws.

The Eloi Anarchy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irSwMr9Zxs0

Lawlessness is another form of anarchy. There is a view parts of the developed world have reached that point.

Max Keiser Report Fraud on Wheels http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q8UdlaVU9BI

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'T' : I prefer Max Keiser to H.G.Wells & your 'Eloi Dystopia' has little or no relevance here - other to all professional 'glass half empty' negativists ; instinctive contrarians and to dissension-monkeys. No one is expecting "textbook Anarchy" or "textbook Democracy" but reading some 'books' and words about both has value. I do agree though that the closest we get to the realisation of the negative view of 'Anarchy = Lawlessness', is in the ruinous free-for-all of 'Modern High Finance (but Low/No Ethics) Crapitalism'.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ThomasKent (131) 2 years ago

The view of anarchy as mobs looting small businesses such as during Hurricane Katrina, or inner city riots in the late 20th century is classic.

How about the $2.3 trillion the Pentagon reported missing on 9/10/2001? This was in peace time. It has never been recovered. The investigation was cancelled due to attacks on 09/11/2001.

That was so much money, but now nobody cares. This might be the characteristic of asymmetric high-end anarchy originating at the top.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Para 1 : "Classic" to who ? Sounds like MSM received (non)wisdom & prejudice to me.

Para 2 : Very good point & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRqeJcuK-A .

Para 3 : Very Interesting Perspective and I appreciated the response.

pax et lux ...

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

Together we must all spread the ideas of anarchism, so that more people will join the struggle for a free and just society :)

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Ok. Can you spread one or two anarchist ideas please?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Sounds great. I support these ideals. How do we do it?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I had to bookmark boss.Very involved. can't focus adequately. Sounds great though.

Good luck

[-] -2 points by teapartypatriot1965 (-13) 2 years ago

Ha ha ha. You have got to be kidding me. You can dress up your viewpoints as best you can, but at the end of the day, anarchy is nothing more than jealousy and laziness and an idea that the uneducated youth attach themselves to as they smoke their bong. You can take that BS you are spewing, wrap it up in toilet paper and try to sell it to the very young, but be careful, their parents find out and it's your ass they make kick!

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Please remove head from (x) before typing !!! Urgently !! Thanx !

e tenebris, lux ?

[-] 0 points by elf3 (2959) 2 years ago

Why would be jealous? Wall Street will create a system that will create a third world economy right here in the good ole USA? I wouldn't be jealous of the upper caste - because eventually the lower caste would attack them. People put up with corruption only until they have nothing to lose - then you'll see the seeds of your harvest. It takes time, energy and effort to maintain a movement that speaks to millions of people to their core values and hearts, that is not lazy - that takes relentless fervor that can not be doused with those Wall Street propagandists who post themselves as tea partiers to yet again divide the movement. The people United can't be defeated. Bring jobs back from overseas, end the monetary takeover of Congress - give small business and small entrepreneurs the ability have an even playing field with Monopolies. Does this sound like you? If it does stand with us!!

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

The funniest thing, and I'm sure you'll agree, is how DKAtoday constantly posts this definition, but then constantly acts in complete opposition!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'CarlTr@shyAndrews' : Actually you are the "funniest thing" on this forum ---- 'funny' peculiar, that is !!! Your whispering dissension mongering and divisive provocations will reap its own Karma in due course !! I saw you here well over 14 hours ago and you've been at it all day - so just how many people are you ?!

verum ex absurdo ...

[+] -4 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

I usually have around 8 concurrent users. Some of them are your good forum friends.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'Tr@shy' : You're really an Incorrigible - Duplicitous ; Mendacious & Manipulative Dissension Monkey !!!

Why ? Who is really paying you for this '24/7' attack by creeping co-option and whispering entreaties ?!!

Go on Trashy, you're the multi-monikered, multi-lingual "student of many disciplines", tell us & be done !

anguis in herba - q.e.d. ...

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ummm no one knows who I am other then my forum name and the posts that I have made and the comments as well - just like I do not know who others on the forum are except for their posts and comments.

See the thing is though you can learn a lot about an unknown individual over time - as they express themselves. They are consistent in who they are - not you though trashy as you are the game player.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

BTW - trashy - why would you have a problem with me posting a gr8 description of anarchy anarchsim anarchists? Don't you like the anarchists to get some good and fair coverage?

I have never said that I am an anarchist - I have said though that some people might see me as such.

I have always - ALWAYS - said that if I am anything - Then - I am People Partisan. That I support or oppose issues. This in no way limits or restricts me in voicing my beliefs - my opinions - my observations.

So again trashy - you have nothing - nothing but a grudge against this forum ( for continually booting your lying ass ) and me because you do not like the truths ( as I see them ) I share. You also hold a grudge against many if not all of the long time contributors to this forum.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

BTW - trashy - why would you have a problem with me posting a gr8 description of anarchy anarchsim anarchists? Don't you like the anarchists to get some good and fair coverage?

I agree wholeheartedly with the definition you post. OWS is about anarchy and that is a good definition. I have no problem with you posting it. I just find it funny because you constantly go against it.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No trashy - no - you have a problem of perspective and understanding. OWS may have been started by anarchists - but it has evolved beyond it's beginnings. Now it is a conglomeration of perspectives and beliefs - just as are the people who make up this country and this world - and as such still remains leftward leaning and progressive. This is what you fail to accept.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

It was always a conglomeration of perspectives and beliefs, but the structure still remains anarchic, i.e. direct democracy, general assemblies, making no demands, etc...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Like I said - you need to keep up. Go read the site information again.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There are demands - you have not been paying attention - go read the site material again trashy.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

There are demands for politicians? And when they meet those demands we fold? Really? Where?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Stop projecting - just go read the information that is available trashy.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

I read it. What you mention does not exist. I ask for a link. You do not wish to provide one. What else can I add? I'm not here to make your case for you.

May I suggest you read An Intro to the Intro of Modern Anarchism?

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You post a partisan description of anarchism. If you're truly fair, and a so-self-described 'People Partisan' and you want to talk about anarchism, present the other side of anarchism fairly. Because it's not all flowers and sunshine as your very one sided definition suggests. The realities of anarchism in practice have meant harsh cruelties. Like forcing people at gunpoint with threat of death, and actual death, to force them to participate 'cooperatively'. Be a 'People Partisan' for those people too.

Remember that time I had to explain to you that the anarchist principle of Direct Democracy is a complete contradiction to a Representative Democracy? That was pretty funny. I think I had to explain that it would mean changing our Constitution. Throwing out Article 1 of the Constitution that gives legislative and decision making powers to elected members of Congress on behalf of the electorate. Because you kept arguing for Direct Democracy. That was pretty funny.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

victoria - imagine my surprise ( not ) at your chiming in here. I believe the definition of anarchism that I post from time to time to be pretty well balanced.

Atrocities happen and are caused by all kinds of people who claim they are for one thing or another.

In history you can not single out any group - through whatever close or loose relationship that has not had atrocities committed by people who relate themselves to that group.

[-] -1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

The definition is cute. I just felt like giving you some shit. How's Odin?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

cantankerous as ever - C 4 Yourself - calls himself forrester.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Prove that comment trashy - prove your assertion sockpuppet user and abuser. My posts are available to all to review. The only one who has a problem with me ( mostly ) is YOU. You have attacked me and others here pretty relentlessly. Some of those people you attacked left the forum - you were so nasty. During all of this time though you are the one who has been booted by the forum. You who will not plead your case to the admin - because you have no case - so - you create sockpuppets and come back to the forum to mess with it continually. And you are booted continually.

Prove your accusation trashy. That is if you are let alone to stay here and continue your BS attacks.

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Before I prove my point, do you believe OWS is based on anarchy and do you respect those principles? If you answer with honesty, I will provide my argument with honesty as well.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is a left leaning progressive site/forum. It is made up of many individuals ( this forum ) who have many varying perspectives and beliefs. Are there anarchists here? I am sure there are. Are they a majority(?) are they a minority(?) - I could not tell ya.

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

You didn't answer my question. I'll ask again.

Do you think OWS as a protest is founded around anarchist principles like direct democracy, general assemblies, making no demands to politicians, etc... And, if so, do you respect those principals?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I answered the question - get some one to explain it to you as I know you have difficulty with comprehension.

[-] -3 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You did not answer the question that was asked. You answered like a politician. You made a statement that didn't relate to the question that was asked. lol.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Surprised U feel that way ( not ) victoria.

[-] -1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I think you're not surprised because it's true. You didn't answer the question that was asked. Just like a politician! I hope you're laughing! It's actually very funny. I could call you Mitt!! But I won't. lol. Or better yet, Paul Ryan! 'Mr. Ryan, what deductions will you be getting rid of?'. Ryan - 'Gov. Romney and I believe blah blah blah'. You just did exactly what they do!! I hope you see the humor in this! You're so funny.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is not really very good humor to compare me to a couple of sociopathic liars. Show me my lie.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (17604) from Coon Rapids, MN 47 minutes ago

This is a left leaning progressive site/forum. It is made up of many individuals ( this forum ) who have many varying perspectives and beliefs. Are there anarchists here? I am sure there are. Are they a majority(?) are they a minority(?) - I could not tell ya. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply edit delete permalink

[-] -1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

ok ok, sorry for the sociopathic comparison. I was really talking about politicians in general to begin, then got carried away.

My example is fair. Just replace Ryan/Romney with VP Candidate A and Pres.Candidate B. You made a statement describing your beliefs and said what you wanted say. Not directly answering the question.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I did answer the question and directly. If you can't C that - that is not my problem.

[-] -1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

ok Ryan. : )

[-] -3 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

No, you talked about this forum, and you talked about the individuals that come here. You didn't tell me if you agreed with the principles that make up the organizational structure of OWS and you didn't tell me if you respected them. But, OK, if you can't even answer a simple question we can't discuss the issue further.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The answer is yes, and yes. Why?

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Because if he does, his behavior on this site contradicts the definition of anarchism he passes along almost daily.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah I saw you suggest that of him earlier. Why can't he recognize the anarchistic roots, respect those roots, and believe/act in a different way.

Do you disapprove in that?

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

He can, but if he does, why do it here? It makes no sense.

Would you go to church if you understood Christian roots, respected them, but believed and acted in ways contrary to Christianity?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ummm U R quite the character trashy quite the character indeed. Show me where I am in conflict with this forum. U can't. U R in conflict with Me and with this forum. That is the truth U won't accept. I do not care - keep pounding your head against the wall.

[-] -1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Equal airtime! Where's that post of the Democatic National Platform? Post it DK post it now. Show us you're fair.

You promote anarchism when you say you aren't an anarchist and this is not an anarchist movement. Do the same for the DNC. This is not a movement for the Democratic Party. So promote the DNC just like you promote anarchism.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Sorry femalesideoftrashy I don't do requests. Look at my posts they are accessible.

[-] 0 points by marthafromOTS (-78) 2 years ago

You're the only girl I can find and I want a girl's opinion. Some guy Carl sent me a link and told me it was posted by a guy named DKAtoday. He talked about an Obama water boy. Do you know anything of this?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/some-of-my-favorite-protest-tools/

[-] -2 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

ok so you say you're not an anarchist. But you feel compelled to promote anarchist thought is all. ok thats fine.

Give equal air time to Democrats and promote and support them in the upcoming election by posting the Democratic National Platform. Since this is a left movement and all.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Are Democrats left? Perhaps some still are. I like this feminine side of you trashy. At least it's a bit more of a real character then your usual sockpuppets.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Neither does OWS or any Occupy movement. In case you forgot already. OWS and all Occupy movements do not fit in any box.

Everything fits in a box. If OWS was everything under the Sun then it would be nothing at all. OWS is well defined and has limits. A kkk person hating blacks would not fit in the OWS box, just like president letter writing shills like you don't.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Go fuck yourself trashy - stick your head back up your ass and complete "YOUR" circle of life.

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Your partisan politics conflict with OWS.

In your definition of anarchy that you love so much:

"If anarchists have one article of unshakeable faith then it is that, once the habit of deferring to politicians or ideologues is lost, and that of resistance to domination and exploitation acquired, then ordinary people have a capacity to organise every aspect of their lives in their own interests, anywhere and at any time, both freely and fairly."

You should read that very carefully a few times. Particularly the part of "deferring to politicians". Writing to the president and other forms of political partisanship and involvement go completely against the definition you so love to brandish around from your high horse.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Who is suggesting that we defer to any politician - not I. Go put your projections back where they belong - in your head. My High Horse? That is funny. I can not help it that you have a very tenuous relationship with reality.

[-] -3 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You're so foolish DK. You spread anarchist thought and definitions while at the same time write letters to the government and the President! This is absolutely a contradiction! It's about as big a contradiction as there can be to anarchist thought! How dense can you be? Anarchists don't believe the government is legitimate. An anarchist writing letters to the Pres. makes about as much sense as an atheist talking to God.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Did not say I was an anarchist. Did not say I agree with all anarchist thoughts. I provided a fair definition of anarchism as most people do not have a clue. I claim no ideology other than being pro people - pro society - pro environment - pro world or People Partisan. So don't try to put me in a box - I don't fit in a box.

Neither does OWS or any Occupy movement. In case you forgot already. OWS and all Occupy movements do not fit in any box.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I'm an atheist.

I acknowledge the anarchistic roots, I respect them, support them as well. I am available for protests and am anxious to see the new form of direct democracy emerge.

In the meantime I am fighting to change the system from within. OWS has stated they support fighting for change within and without the system.

OWS has stated they support all non violent tactics. I've seen Occupy protesting Romney, I've seen them stand with Jill Stein.

I think Anarchism probably allows much flexibility in approaches. This tolerance is part of it's attraction.

Are you against certain approaches or opinions?

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

OWS has stated they support fighting for change within and without the system.

No they haven't, and DKAtoday's anarchist definition very clearly states that fighting from within is to be avoided at all costs.

Protesting Romney, protesting Obama, etc... is not fighting form within. Pushing for particular candidates is.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Protesting current leaders is part of fighting for change.

Voting is allowed. We cannot pretend there is no election. Or that the parties do not have the power we want to take back.

We can fight for change from within while we are simultaneously recreating the system from the ground up, horizontally, with real direct democracy. If anarchisms definition doesn't allow for voting, or OWS comes out against voting then that's just tough noogies. That right has been bled & and died for.

We can possibly lay the groundwork for change, and perhaps improve the lives of the 99% while our anarchist founders are working feverishly on the new system. We can at least attempt to keep the worst pols out of power.

Are you one of our anarchist founders? Who is the new system comin'?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You never could.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

No, it seems you couldn't and everybody can see you evaded my question.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Why are you avoiding me Carl?

Afraid of the truth?

That you are the one evading questions, while you try and entrap others?

Who were you Carl? In your other iterations.

Who were you, to stick up for a liar like thrashy?

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

I'm avoiding you?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Yes Carl, you have been.

Isn't honesty what you are all about?

If so? Why not be honest?

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

All sorts of posts you never responded to Carl.

There's one at the very bottom of this thread.

Don't you think it's a bit dishonest of you to even ask such a fool question.

I know I do.

I have to answer all your comments or else you're going to cry like a little girl that I ignore you? I reply to what I feel like replying. This is a forum. There are many users. I replied to many of your comments, give me the chance to reply to other people.

Again, I'm sorry if I didn't give you enough attention and you feel ignored. I'll make sure to respond to at least 10 of your comments each day. Is that OK? More?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Insults from you Carl?

I expected it.

You're not being honest, so that's what you do.

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

When did I ignore you? Can you provide an example? If it made you sad to be ignored, I'm sorry, it was not my intention.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

All sorts of posts you never responded to Carl.

There's one at the very bottom of this thread.

Don't you think it's a bit dishonest of you to even ask such a fool question.

I know I do.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nope no evasion - just your usual lack of comprehension.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I think you, sticking up for thrashy is a whole lot funnier...................:)

Absurd even.

Now you want to attack someone for not wholly understanding a particular political position?

Absurd.

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

What's funny is not simply that he does not understand a political position, what's funny is that he implies that he does by posting the definition all over, but then shows that he doesn't by his commentary that flies right in the face of it. You don't find that hilarious? I mean, he's completely and utterly fascinated by and convinced that we must use partisan politics, but then he keeps posting this anarchic definition in which it clearly states that we should not care about politicians at all. It's a blast of a laugh.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're much funnier, Carl.

It's all partisan politics, Carl. Even anarchy.

It was never anything else.

[+] -4 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Anarchy is partisan politics? How so? Can you make a case for this strange idea of yours?

I feel like making a posting on this question. It's good.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's just a different political faction. So yes, it's still partisan.

Just like all the libe(R)tarians around here, posting partisan libe(R)tarian crap without ever admitting it.

You do not own any higher ground, son..

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

It's not just another political faction. It's a very special faction because having a political party would be entirely contradictory for anarchy. It's also very special because for anarchy to bloom it would mean the end of our current system. Unlike the other parties, anarchy cannot play into the system of a republic which is hierarchic, the opposite of anarchic.

Have you ever read a book or a short article about anarchy?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

All political factions think they are special.

They all think they are exclusive.

They are all partisan.

Every last one of them.

In answer to your last question......Yes.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

If you can't see how anarchy is very different from all the factions which are part of hierarchy then what can I say but repeat my question with a small reformulation.

Are you sure, positive, that you read a book or a short article about anarchy?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Yes Carl, I'm sure.

I'm also sure that no political faction works as a pure system.

None of them.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Anarchy is not comparable to parties like the republicans or the democrats. This is what you fail to understand. That's why it has nothing to do with partisan politics. It's a system like a republic, or a monarchy.

Please, take a one day break from this forum to educate yourself.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're making less sense Carl.

It's differently partisan.

That's all you are saying.

[-] -2 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

Agreed, nobody in his right mind would ever consider DK to be an ancharist. It does provide good 'cover' for him, and his real agenda. Odin

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

O come now Odin.

stop with the agenda bullshit.

[-] -2 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

If everyone would stop with the partisan bullshit shooz

I would gladly lay down Thor's Hammer

This forum bears little resemblance to the thinking of the people who are closer to the heart of this movement. That's fact.

Look at the good 'independent thinking' people that either no longer post here by choice, or have been banned

I can think of three of them in the past week alone

This both saddens, and angers me. Odin

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's all partisan. It always was.

This forum never was what you claim. Never.

I've explained it to you before. I won't do it again.

What 3 are you speaking of?

I caught hchc posting crap from the John Birch Society.

Some of these people are not what you think they are.

If you think I'm going to let up on him after that, you are mistaken.

You may not like or agree with DK, but he is honest, not perfect, just honest.

[-] -1 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

"It's all partisan. It always was."

And that my friend is why we are where we are

The defense rests

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Defense of what?

You own personal politic? That's partisan too.

It's just one more part of being human.

[-] -2 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

I am not going to get into semantics with you, on the various defs of partisan, and politics. We both know the differences as it pertains to our discussion

It is difficult for people our age to get off the partisan field

Being on that field is why we are where we are

And it is probably our generation that is most responsible for us being in this shitty situation

The difference in age between the people on this forum, and the ones who are nearer to the heart of this movement I would estimate is 2-3 decades

In large part this accounts for the huge divide between here, and there

We may think that we are running this rev, but we are not

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The divide is natural too.

I've posted stuff on it, though as usual it gets lost in the plethora of personal attacks.

You wanna take the blame? Help yourself.

I've been fighting it for decades.

Fighting the human condition is wrong, for this or any other movement.

[-] -2 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

I too have been fighting it from the Viet Nam War, to the Iraqui War, to the Patriot act, etc.,and with countless letters to the editor over the years, BUT the fact remains, it was our generation that was a big reason why, we are here

I am not fighting the "human condition," and although I know that you can learn a lot from history, the answers to the many crisis we are in will not come from our generation for the most part

The persistence, the organizing ability, and the sustainability that this movement needs will mostly come from the young also

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Then he shouldn't be promoting John Bircher crap.

It's not all that hard to understand.

If he can accept that kind of propaganda, what else is he promoting?

If he didn't notice? ( Which I doubt, there's a lot of birchers in Florida.)

NO difference.

You do know who founded the birchers?

[-] 0 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

There's tons of peope in Florida, and the eco-system is all messed up because of it

Those two articles about Guatemala had nothing to do with the JBers

I have little idea of what they are about, and no idea who founded them

Once again....it was ugly

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So is his constant denigration of the 99%..

Very ugly, the nastiness he wishes upon them, and he's been doing it for all these months.

A denigration that fit's into the bircher mold.

Like I said, I've known some them over the years.

So no, I don't accept your perception of the situation.

All of the vehemence he expresses on the forum is aimed at liberals.

That's also in line with birchers.

As is his HATE for the FED and love of libertarians.

All of it fits in.

He's either a sympathizer or a naive, yet effective propagandist.

You never answered my question, either.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Then stop fighting the human condition and start working with it, wherever and however possible.

In another step.

You could go a long way by understanding what I mean by neolibe(R)tarians.

I'm too tired to once again explain how OWS was infiltrated and co-opted.

I explained it to you once and you never responded, letting the thread fall into oblivion.

It was never moveon you should have been worried about.

[-] -1 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

I never did think you were moveon shooz, rather I thought you were a person of conscience, who had grown accustomed to the partisan corral that we have spent a life-time in

Your repeated red baiting of another poster here did not sit well with me, i will have to admit. It was typical of the red baiting that has gone on here for some time, and the fact that our moderator, DK joined in was disturbing to say the least. I'm no saint, I know, but that was just out, and out ugly.

The co-option of this forum has been trying to take place for some time

Anyone who does not want to saddle up on the 'partisan pony' feels the heat in a multitude of ways. It has caused at least two long time posters that are like-minded to me to quit posting here in the last week alone

Have you ever heard of the old addage? "Be careful what you wish for. It may come true." You may find yourself hanging out with a bunch of back-slapping friends, having rid yourselves of all the 'independent thinkers,' and in the process be looked at with disdain, and righteous ridicule from the rest of the movement. Once again, ' You will then know how it feels to be ostracized.

Odin

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What can I say? Sometimes the truth IS ugly.

In this case, that IS the case.

[-] -1 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

You and DK repeatedly calling another poster on here a John Bircher is UGLY....PERIOD.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What I did the other night, was correct and I stand by it.

I did not come to my conclusion easily.

As far as DKs part? You will have to ask him.

[-] 4 points by gsw (2733) 2 years ago

If people go back and read September October archived posts.

See all the names of posters who are here no more.

They all listened to the advice of Thrassy, and got to street level activism. Where else would they go.

And good for them. We at least need to stay and occupy the ows sight, faithfully. So visitors can see it is still productive.

But we do need to do something to get some notice. People have forgotten, and the media has ignored.

The people who stay here, and there are fewer names than a last year, seem to be dwindling to smaller numbers, although there seem to be more new posts per day. The diversity of posters seems to have diminished.

So that's a good thing....that they have found productive outlets in local ows activity, and much work to be done.

For the people who remain on the site, I would hope they would stay more united by what is common to them.

There will be diversity.

Be the voice of OWS, and ban your petty partisan differences. Lead by example, and stop dredging up past issues of conflict.

As it looks not too good, to whoever stops by to see how things are going if there is just constant backbiting and bickering over petty personal stuff.

Stay focused on the corporations, Wall Street, and the military machine.

Romney is done. Shift aim to the Jon Bohners and Mitch Mitchells, and all the partisans that have sold out the country of whatever party.

We need to bring troops home, and heal the country. The wars have not helped the economy.

We need to refocus on the corrupt bankers who have gotten away from our views.

News happens, but some of the classic posts may need to be revived, and have some new comments added to them.

It is interesting to see the topics as they have evolved.

We are wasting a lot of air time discussing minor issues.

People may want to forgive and move forward. The past is behind, but, read the newer Chris Hedges articles: rough times are ahead, and we need to be united, and seek creative ways of surviving, and bypassing the corporations and 1 percent, if we will want to maintain freedom and survivability of the people. The 1 percent have their plan Bs. The can go to their remote islands, and close their gates of their compounds. We better start working on ours plans to provide food, clean water.

PBS had a expose tonight on the forestry industry spraying herbicides to reduce undergrowth competing with their fir trees. The spray would be applied to snow, which melts and goes into the water. The people downstream, even kids living on organic farms, everyone had measurable levels of pesticides, even though these pesticides are short lives. lasting only a few hours. 9-12. And the pesticides disrupt hormones.

Why are the bees having problems? Why is corn failing to insects, as well as desertification? Why are people having more autism, allergies, asthma, obesity.

These are issues we must confront, not petty infighting.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Why are the bees having problems?

hive collapse is due to long term exposure to a pesticides as hives are moved from crop to crop. THe french have banned its use.

Why is corn failing to insects, as well as desertification?

Eco systems having been weaken by planting only one type of plant (monocroppig)

Why are people having more autism, allergies,

I don't know

asthma,

air poilution

obesity.

we live in a car culture

[-] -1 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

it was ugly

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I do not go after OWS or any Occupy supporters who do not believe in taking part in politics. I do not go after supporters of OWS or Occupy who work over the internet.

I went after you and others who would not leave other OWS and Occupy supporters alone to do their own thing.

There is a difference - and I know that you like to ignore the fact that you were and still are out of bounds.

That the moderators apparently agree with my assessment and gave you and others the boot - should tell you to shut your spew hole - and either get busy supporting street action - like you say you are all about - or just leave.


[-] 0 points by Dionysus (12) from Owings Mills, MD 0 minutes ago

No, i would not want to see you ostracized "for doing the correct thing,"

But certainly the way that posters here have been ostracized for believing that we should not get involved in partisan politics have been instigated, and maligned maliciously in McCarthy-like red baiting techniques. And it has gone on with DK's tacit approval

There is nothing CORRECT about it. I am sorry, but what is saw you partake in the other night with DK was UGLY, and I too have been a victim of that same kind of maliciousness, and it stinks big time. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -3 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

Until you become a fair arbiter/moderator, I definitely will not leave you alone

The rest of Occupy Wall Street is nothing like what you have perpetuated here, and YOU DKAtoday are responsible for that

All along for the past year, you could have been doing the job of linking this forum to the streets...all while keeping it the wonderful place it has always been of learning, sharing, and teaching

Instead, YOU chose to set this forum on a partisan path if not always by words, but often just by your support of some of the most vile people on here, that fortuitously agree with you and your partisanship

You have made a mockery of this forum by your uneven enforcement of the rules, and soon it will be known as the place where old people like us are kept busy to make them feel like they are a part of this struggle

Odin

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You are not an independent thinker - perhaps an independent stinker - but not thinker. No you try to shut down other avenues of action that are available to those who are on the internet. You talk about supporting street action - but then you never do - talk street strategy - no you hardly spend any time talking about street actions that are upcoming and what could be done to make em better. Nope instead you go after others that are talking about taking other types of action and making use of the internet.

Sorry - you are not who you say you are. If you are an advocate for street protesting - you are very poor at the job. Now if you are a divisive problem starter - then you do a good job - and that is likely why you are favored by trashy and hchc.

[-] 0 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

"...independent stinker...," OK that was cute. I can go with that.

This place is not condusive to linking with the streets, and you more than anyone else have to accept responsibility for that

You saw what happened to my thoughtful Occupy Town Square, and my Copper or Salmaon threads. Few people wanted to ask me about any of the great work those kids were doing. You and/or your partisan buddies with their multiple pseudonyms just saw it as an opportunity to pollute those threads, ravage me, and down-vote me again. One more time, I texted one of the young members who offered to come on the thread, and told her not to bother. That was sad for me to tell her that. It really was

Once again, this place bares little resemblance to the Occupy Wall Street that I know, and you more than anyone here has to take responsibility for that.

You have given license to your like-minded buddies to ride 'rough-shod' over this forum, and a lot worse. You are not a fair arbiter, but rather a cheer-leader for this group

You fear me most in your quest to turn this into a political movement, because of my ties to the streets, and people nearer the heart of this movement, not to mention my obstinance. Let me reiterate again though, my contributions pale to the many other people that I know in this movement.

I do understand that I have to be made the bogeyman, if you want to reach your objective.

Everyone here who is non-partisan is feeling the heat as I pointed out to shooz, and the maliicious tactics that are being used to quell these voices stinks. Please read my comments to shooz

You mistakenly believe that partisanship compliments street protests, and they go together like peas and carrots. They don't in OWS.

I am sorry that you are not who you say you are either, but I do notice that whenever you start to be 'called-out' on your partisanship, you do then behave better for a while, at least.

"a divisive problem starter:" Is that a new classification that you came up with for people that want this movement to stay true to its principles? Is this the first step to my being 'ostracized' and booted again?

Odin

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I've already been ostracized in my life, once when I admitted to being liberal, and again, when I was perceived as favoring black people....It's not something I'm inexperienced with.

I don't mind at all, as I was doing the correct thing, as I am now.

If that's what you have in store for me? For doing the correct thing?

Bring it on. I'm not in the least, afraid.

[-] -1 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

No, i would not want to see you ostracized "for doing the correct thing,"

But certainly the way that posters here have been ostracized for believing that we should not get involved in partisan politics have been instigated, and maligned maliciously in McCarthy-like red baiting techniques. And it has gone on with DK's tacit approval

There is nothing CORRECT about it. I am sorry, but what i saw you partake in the other night with DK was UGLY, and I too have been a victim of that same kind of maliciousness, and it stinks big time.

Odin

[-] -1 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

What crap from the John Birch society did hchc say

If I utter something benign, that can also be found in some evil person's spiel.... does that mean I hold all of his beliefs? Hardly!

McCarthyism was a very ugly time in this country shooz, and it relied on 'red baiting', which is exactly what has been going on here to try and quell the voices of people who do not think partisan politics should be a part of OWS. McCarthyism was eventually brought down by "independent thinking" people who went against the prevailing opinion of their party. Those three people were President Eisenhower R,, Sen Margaret Chase Smith R Maine, and Sen Ralph Flanders R Vermont. Had it not been for these courageous 'independent thinking' people, we may not ever have emerged from that oh so ugly period in American history.

As I pointed out the other day, what we are seeing on this forum....led by DKAtoday... in a lot of ways is a microcosm of what we have seen in our not so hallowed halls of Congress, where there is a concerted effort to shut down 'independent voices.' That dynamic played out in Congress has a lot to do with where we find ourselves today. It is not healthy there, and neither is it here

Odin

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That would be you - trying to shut down the voices of OWS and all Occupy supporters in their trying to take effective political action. I told you to knock it off and let them do their thing and you do yours - and you refused - then you got booted - then you pleaded to be let back on the forum - then you started in with your crap again - then you also complained to admin about me - then admin came and had a look at your complaint - and then jart booted your butt out the door again.

See you and the trashy ( though his claims are all lies - he is just here to mess with the forum ) claim to be the keepers of the purity of OWS - guess what - you were both told to mind your own business as you are not the keepers or deciders of what is and is not acceptable HERE.

[-] -2 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

-Just like you DK who is trying to steer this movement into partisan politics, I am trying to steer it back to where the rest of the movement is.

-Admittedly, I find it perplexing that the administration here which was set up by anarchists, seems to give you, and your partisan cronies a helluva lot more latitude... than people here who know what this movement is truly about

-At best, they have mistakenly given you the awesome power ;-) of being able to ban people after the troll attack in May, when you then became a more respectable "People Partisan," (your term). That was before you went back to being 'Partisan Partisan,' (my term) as the elections grew near, and other hacks, and shills joined the movement

-Could it be that they are so busy running a revolution, that all messages sent to jart go to you, and/or some things sent from you as 'evidence' are missing some 'stuff'? I am only speculating...of course.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There you go again with "your" stinkin thinkin. You and trashy belong together - as far as messing with this forum is concerned. You may actually be a real street protester in support of the OWS movement - but on the internet? You are divisive and disruptive. Stay on the streets with your activity on the internet and leave others alone.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

That would be you - trying to shut down the voices of OWS and all Occupy supporters in their trying to take effective political action.

OWS supporters are not trying to take political actions, that's contradictory to OWS! Have you attended but one Occupy event? Seriously, I'd love for you to go in a GA and propose that everyone take part in your president writing campaign. You'd finally understand how much you don't fit in.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I am not a street protester and you know why - I have a disabling illness. So I work on the internet - and yes the internet is a very different place then the streets - there is so much that can be done here that can not be done on the streets. The internet activity coupled with street protest truly allows OWS and all Occupy movements to be multifaceted.

You are the one that does not fit. Street or internet - your aim has always been to disrupt this forum.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The thing is, there are plenty of very political sites to post on. The people on the ground dont want this portrayed as a Vote out the Republicans movement.

Im not sure how people can make claims that A) the rules of the forum dont endorse and B) the people on the streets dont endorse.

That doesnt seem to make any sense to me at all.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Is it the john Bircher in you squeaking? Yes I have heard about your posting Bircher crap. Makes a lot of sense as to your oddness and inconsistency - your essential Eeyore-ness. You belong in the trashy encampment. You are not a supporter of OWS or Occupy. You are a game player just like trashy.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Thats about the response I was expecting. A total denial.

"Heard about"....like you arent crawling through this forum inspecting everythying on a 24/7 basis.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hey - Eeyore. What timing. I just told your good buddy Odin that you and he ought to get together with your other buddy trashy and start your own forum. Then you can do what ever shit you want to do the way you want to do it.

[-] -1 points by GNAT (150) 2 years ago

Ok. Honestly. Fill me in on John Bircher? Also, could you explain why you would react like that instead of offering a counter argument?

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Or you could address what I posted, what is an indisputable fact that no one on the street wants this to turn into just another Vote Out the Republicans movement.

Most activists dont waste time on the interent because of this major misunderstanding that you are proving again.

Im glad most of the kids are in the streets protesting a corrupted system instead of arguing over who is the lesser of two evils....how dumb is that?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Denial? Check

Insults? Check

Name calling? Check

You're a real winner all right.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Who hopped on my response? Oh ya, the troll did.

Baiting and attacking....typical troll stuff.

I am not winning, you are right. No one is winning. Its a net loss when people throw temper tantrums because of the source of a link, a link which was proven to be true regardless.

And here you are, days later, still crying, dividing, and trolling.

A net loss for everyone. As usual.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

But you did directly post Bircher crap....more than once.

The denial was always yours. Along with all your insults.

So c'mon.....more denials and insults.

It's what you do.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Whatever site that is, is what site it is. I could give a fuckin shit what a fuckin Bircher is.

Get off you ass and go occupy something troll.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You want to turn it into a libe(R)tarian, John Bircher support site.

I'll take the other one.

You're always bragging about it.

Always denying what libe(R)tarians are really all about.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I go off the guys in Occupy. You go off of, well....Im not sure.

And you are still trolling. That response was not to you.

But we all do love the little pet names. Just like the right calling Democrats shit like Democraps, Demon-Rats, Demorats.

You are all at the same level of discourse, which is why something like Occupy HAD to appear eventually. The current people involved are incapable of discussing anything, much less working together.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Sure you do bircher boy.

You don't comment on what's going on in your own State.

You're in a constant state of denial about libe(R)tarians.

The lions share of your vehemence is aimed at liberals.

About the only thing you do much commenting on is Obama.

You act so worldly and then you play coy.

Florida has become a cesspool of corruption by (R)epelican'ts and you have nothing to say about it.

I can only conclude that you're either dumb, or a complete sham.

Which is it?

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Ya, thats why Ive been to a handful of protests about direct FL shit this year. Right. You have no clue what you are talking about. And quite frankly, it doesnt really matter. Things are happening, people are mobilizing, and you are sitting behind your computer being an ass. HAve fun.

Go find someone else to attack.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

hchc you and Odin and trashy deserve each other. You really should start your own forum. Then you could post your Bircher crap. Odin could do his(?) street thing. trashy could laugh at the both of ya and play his games. You could be the new 3 stooges.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Trashy? forget which roll you are playing? Aren't you supposed to B carl?

[-] -2 points by CandyBrown (-2) 2 years ago

jart?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You need to contact jart trashy? You should know how by now.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

lol. No dis to jart intended.

[-] -2 points by Dionysus (-16) from Owings Mills, MD 2 years ago

You may believe that you are helping, but in reality you are doing a disservice to the people in the streets DK. Tell me DK, why did you and your buddies on here ridicule the poster who suggested that we all take a day off from our LTs, and protest. Being the first to comment on that thread, and knowing that not all people can be in the 'streets', I offered the suggestion that those people could contribute money or resources directly to the protesters instead.

PLEASE PLEASE tell me why DK that GREAT IDEA was ridiculed. That is the very kind of thing that you should be promoting here as a Leader of this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Odin

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

BTW - blaming "YOUR" self caused problems on others - did you pick that up from trashy(?) - no I believe you were like that prior to hanging out with the trashy one - it is just a trait the two of you share. Great stinkers stink alike?

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I am not the leader of this forum I am just another contributor to this forum. Trashy will always be an individual/subject of ridicule as he is a troll an attacker of this forum - yes your new found friend - trashy the troll.

Tell me Odin - why the new profile on your new persona? Why not just leave it blank ( the profile page ) - I mean you sign your favorite character name to your comments anyway. So why the fake profile info? Is this a habit that you have gotten from your association with the trashy one?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

He posted links to it more than once, but I finally checked the source.

John Birch Society crap. 100% pure propaganda, no matter what it says............

Wonderful source, eh?

It fits right in with his avoidance of Koch Bro. issues.

Fits right in to all the bullshit about duopoly.

And his refusal to notice what goes on in Florida.

[-] -1 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

I am here for all the right reasons shooz. I think you know that by now.

I have misjudged several people on here for different reasons

I have never seen hchc post any JB links, or have I known him to be anything other than true to hs beliefs that are simular to mine, in us not getting involved in partisan politics...HERE in OWS!

For me, this all boils down to where OWS will be most effective. That's all.

But I have endured repeated lies, constant red baiting, and attacks on my family relationships for this

Once again, 'this place has little resemblance to the people nearer to the heart of this movement..... the people in the streets, and parks who are reaching out to the mainstream, organizing at the grass-roots level, and risking arrest and bodily harm in the streets for standing up for what they believe in.' And once again, that's just fact.'

You may indeed be successful in co-opting this forum, and making it an extension of the DNC, or moveon. But you may also at that point be sorry that your were triumphant, as you may find yourself to be just another one of the many liberal groups that have failed us for oh so long. In any event, this forum will then be the 'one' that is ostracized' from the rest of OWS. You will then know how it feels, as the many other great posters that were here, also know. Odin

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

"'this place has little resemblance to the people nearer to the heart of this movement."

That's because they have never posted here very much.

I'm all for the proposed "bridge to the ground" whatever that might be.

As long as it's not used to drive other thinkers away.

I have NEVER trusted hchc, he has said the darnedest things.

Now I know why. I've had a feel for such things since many years ago when I knew JB members and sympathizers.

It's a touch, I have not lost.

In your last paragraph you once again express fear and a lack of confidence.

That's truly sad........:(

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Still clinging to that little dream about me eh?

You dont have to trust me shooz. Its not going to make a bit of difference. And you constant mistrust is a perfect example of what is being spoke of.

I guess we all better be careful of what links we grab off of facebook, or Shooz will throw a temper tantrum.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Nah, It's Birchers, like you I don't trust.

People should be very careful with ANY info you post.

Like I said, that wasn't the only time you posted a link to that site.

You can play coy and innocent for the "audience", but for me the bulk of your behavior plays it out clearly.

"Right" down to your constant...look over there.............Obama crap.

You own well picked wedge issues.

The Bircher ties to the Kochs and libe(R)tarianism is just as clear cut.

And plays out in your denials.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

MAn you are stupid....or is it an act?

Everyone else should be careful of what they find on FB, Shooz wont like you for it.... ooooooohhhh

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

haha good one!! You ever find that Hen?

Wait....let me guess.....

  • you knew where it was all along
[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'm sorry. You're the one that's stupid.

I know and you know that link wasn't to FB, it was to a Bircher site that you linked to before, so stop lying.

It's no wonder you are always the first with an insult.

It's no wonder you pick at liberals without mercy.

You're a Bircher and that's what they do.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

The reason I believe that people nearer to the heart of this movement don't come here is because of what they see here, and those that were here either left because of that, or more recently they have been booted. I remember well, very early in this struggle when I put up a comment half kiddingly, something like: 'This forum has been put up to keep us out of your hair, while you run the revolution.' Within minutes, I got 9 pts for that, so then I put up another comment saying: '9 pts for that?' And I got another 7-8 pts. There is a real divide here, whether we like it or not shooz.

A "bridge to the ground," not my term but it's OK. This should be a place where we should organize grass-roots efforts, resistance of every strife (barring partisan politics), and supporting protesters.

Gee, look at what happened to my Occupy Town Square thread i put up. No one wanted to ask me any questions about what this group was about. I texted the young OTS lady who offered to come on the thread, and told her not to bother. It just became an opportunity for my detractors to sling mud at me. Yes admittedly, i have gotten good at throwing it back too.

And what about the poster who suggested we all take a day off from our LTs, and protest. He was ridiculed for having made what I thought was a good suggestion. Did you notice that I suggested that some people are unable to protest, and that maybe they could just contribute $20 in money or resources to protesters instead. I rembered that time months ago when you felt that I had disparaged you, and I have been careful not to do it again ever since. Please respect that, and i have carried through with the promise I made to you then, although it has not been easy.

One more time, 'fear' is not a word i use lightly, as I have lived on a boat, and have been in charge of the safe handling of millions of gallons of highly flammable petroleum products. Yes though, I am concerned about the direction of this forum, which is not following the direction of the streets, or the people close to it. For people living in Timbuktu (no offense), they might come here, and think that this is what OWS is about. More, and more, it isn't.

So far, like I said earlier, not many people (at all) on the ground read this forum. And although it is 'sad,' that shows to me, at this point in particular, that this movement is healthy. Odin

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I've tried to explain that the perception of duopoly is within us and projected elsewhere.

In political reality, it's much more complex.

As far as your quote? You're probably correct, so what's the problem?

It is what it is, and that's all it's ever been. A mixing pot of supporters and detractors.

It was the bots and sock puppets that chased a lot of the early posters, that and all the trolls. Some were even chased lately.

About the bridge? We'll see. It could have been done at any time and it wasn't.

The fear and obsession with partisanship and moveon, have to go.

It's bullshit.

Sounds like FLAKESnews crap.

Partisan? Hell, it's a natural human condition. Do you expect people not to be natural?

Besides, a lot of it is stirred by posts designed to do just that.

You know that's not the fear I'm talking about, because I've explained it to you.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Here is the link that this clown is concerned about that I saw on facebook...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/12749-critics-slam-obama-deployment-of-us-troops-to-guatemala-for-drug-war

I guess that make me a bircher, whatever the fuck that is. So I gave the little rodent this link too....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57503167/200-u.s-marines-join-drug-war-in-guatemala/

Doesnt have too much to say about that one. He is such a hack.

[-] 0 points by Forrester (13) 2 years ago

I remember reading these. I thought they were informative. I can't see the problem.

[-] -3 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

Still no links for evidence?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I won't give them the honor of another hit, even from you.

Indeed, why warn the other John Birchers around here that I know what I know.

It's astro turf, so I had to search out the truth.

You should do the same.

A simple search for info on the Birchers would do wonders for you.......maybe.

[-] -3 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

It's not because I support some claims of a certain user that I support all his claims. Thinking I do is a logical fallacy which you seem to love.

Who do you work for? Be honest? Moveon.org?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

FLAKESnewsian bullshit?????

Oh Carl. Your colors are showing and they are not pretty. Kinda rusty really.

I'm retired and don't work for anyone anymore.

With all of your evasions, the more pertinent question is, who do you work for Carl?

Why do you try and drive posters away?

If there is something you desire to do here, you could do it without driving anyone else away. At least within the limits of the rules.

You do know that sock puppeteering is banable?

Those that do get banned for it inevitably come back and bitch about it.

Even thrashy would thrash about over it.

Are you one of those Carl?

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It does. Doesn't it?

Like an echo from the not too distant past.

Like someone thrashing around, trying, yet failing to make sense. Always answering questions, with questions.

Never quite reaching reality.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Good videos Andy

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

I agree :)

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ogoj11 (263) 2 years ago

My own feelings about anarchism are generally negative. Despite this, the people in our movement that I like best, that I love most are usually the anarchists. Why?

The people are the most radical, the most spirited, the least refomist.

But the ideas, the ideology, anarchism - is nothing but a trendy fashionable form of leftism without contamination by ugly communist pasts.

Now I'm going to court a little controversy. You know how when you hear the conservatives excitedly blathering about deficits and fiscal responsibility, you know how you can sense the suppressed racism that they wish they could affirm --- we have something like that on our side. When youhear the anarchists excitedly talking up decentralized schemes of organization, listen closely - what is repressed?

Answer: the wish to embrace the tainted communist past, the millions of martyrs in the 20th century who died fighting for a just world, but whose cause we can't identify with because of Stalin. The Russian front, the Spanish civil war, the victims of Suharto, the hecatombs of Chiang Kai-shek, the 800,000 slaughtered in Guatemala by the US trained death squads. Forget anarchism and embrace our past with all its faults.

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

There has been a huge propaganda campaign by existing power structures to try to divert attention away from ideas and values that are perfectly reasonable and logic.

Please read this one and check out the links:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-libertarian-socialism-is-the-best-way-to-organ/

[-] -3 points by teapartypatriot1965 (-13) 2 years ago

Just to get real with you anarchists, anarchy never works. If there are no rules, society crumbles. Maybe that is what you want to have happen. I don't know. I've never met an anarchist. I guess I should go online to worlds of warcraft and meet a few huh? I am sure not going to meet any in a workplace, as it seems that is the only place I won't find one.

I would surmise that an anarchist is someone younger, born in the 80's maybe. No real purpose. Maybe didn't get an invite to a prom. Picked last for a sporting event when they were kids. Parents probably pot heads. I suspect that somewhere along the line, someone did them a wrong. How that translates into anarchism, I don't honestly know. This is the truth right here. You are born. Nothing is promised to you after that. Life throws you curve balls and sometimes people really get screwed. Too Fkn bad. Sometimes bad people live until they are 100 and sometimes innocent babies die. That is life. You do not need to hang a self pity-ooohh poor me sign around your neck. It is time to wear big man pants and grow a pair.

This thought provided to you by a thriving member of the Tea Party. Have a nice day and please, please bathe more!

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

I believe you've been misinformed when it comes to anarchism. Please check this one out:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-libertarian-socialism-is-the-best-way-to-organ/

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by oneandone (-67) 2 years ago

"Modern" anarchism: Translation, :.....masked cowards that throws bricks through windows, in the past month...as opposed to those masked cowards that threw bricks, over a month ago.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 2 years ago

Why cowards? The cowards are the cops who aren't taking any chances, don't have any principles, just follow orders for pay.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[+] -6 points by teapartypatriot1965 (-13) 2 years ago

Ya know, I am 47 years old. I started working when I was 6, selling newpapers. I grew up in a poor, blue collar neighborhood. Parents split up when I was 13. What I might ask, makes someone like me, truly love the Country I live in, versus most of the people who post to this, hate the Country? Why is it that someone coming from a third world country absolutely relishes the US?

Well I'll tell ya-Too many kids who are too privileged. I don't mean monetarily. I mean the PC BS where every kid needs to get a gold star or his feelings might get hurt. Too many video games, not enough books. Oh, Johnny can't play tag or he might get hurt. I look at many web sites and hear all sorts of garbage coming out of thge mouths of uneducated occupiers mouths who don't even know why they are in Boston, other than a free meal and any opportunity to steal, get high, drink, or simply a warm place to sleep. Occupy people have no real voice. Tea Party People do indeed have a voice as they are organized, educated, working class people. The core of this Country. You people have too muchtime on your hands waiting for people like me to work hard and pay taxes so you can collect welfare. You really do make me want to vomit.

I work hard, 2 jobs, to save money so I can avoid people like you. There will always be people like you, but you are not the majority, you are most definitely the minority and we will occasionally have to put up with the inconveniences you put in our paths. Yeah, the blocked roads only serve to cause those of us who really work for a living, to simply make a detour around the stench of the geat unwashed. Get smart. Stop taking everything CBS says as truth. Find out the truth on your own. instead of being lazy and accepting what some talking head has put in front of you.

As with last year, you occupoops will gather enmass at certain places and then once it gets nice and cold, you will crumble and since there is no real committment in your ranks, the bums will retreat to their parents basement, return to Florida sunning themselves on the public beaches and making a general nusance of themselves in another state.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You say you love this country but you spew much hatefulness. Your description of OWS supporters does not match in any way the people I've met at the rallys.

Good, honest, decent, hard working Americans who love this country and want to improve it, by assuring all people have an opportunity to succeed, and making sure no one gets to rig the system against others.

So you are way off base. Keep your hatefulness to yourself, it doesn't hold water.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 2 years ago

Why are you posting to us?

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 2 years ago

A 47 year old using words like occupoops? That's probably why you need two bad jobs instead of one good one.

[-] -2 points by teapartypatriot1965 (-13) 2 years ago

Actually, 2 very good jobs. Although it does not leave me much time to hang out on my boat, but one must make sacrifices..

[Removed]