Forum Post: All Talk of Obama Being Communist should be Tied to Corporate Welfare
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 31, 2012, 4:13 p.m. EST by Middleaged
(5140)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
US Politics can be defined or characterized by simple messages for the Voter. This should be considered a Fraud and a Crime.
The US Voter is out of touch with most of government policies and processes. And US Politics JUST MAKES US ALL DUMBER.
Maybe OWS Forum members can start a process of Tying Issues together....
A) Talk of Obama Being Communist should be Tied to Corporate Welfare (since socialism and communism are about spending money).
B) Talk of Obama being a Muslim should be Tied to Fascist Policies Like Lobbying that only Benefit the big corporations and the Wealthy (Since being a Muslim separates him from founding of the Country and the majority of votes, but so does Lobbying and doing whatever Banks and Big Money Interest WANT).
C) Talk of Romney and Republicans only being interested in Making Money should be Tied to Educational Discussion about Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and Economics which would encourage Stimulus Spending on Infrastructure and creating an Environment for Jobs (since Republican think they have the Last word on Business Practices, Democracts should Educate Voters on the Depression and Economics).
Columbia University Lecture Series on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT Economics) features, Stephanie Kelton, Randy Wray, Warren Mosler.
She says she thinks they have won over are have been convincing, Joseph Stiglitz, Martin Wolf, Paul Krugman. I think William K. Black has been in their corner since they seem based out of UMKC.
Peterson Foundation is behind the "Fiscal Cliff" Myth. This is an organizanized Financial Scheme and Propaganda. The talk about Debt and Deficit currently going around politics is harming people.
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/10/pete-peterson-has-won.html
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/09/were-not-broke-and-the-clinton-surpluses-destroyed-the-us-economy.html (Two Myths in America, that we are broke and that Surpluses are good for the US)
http://moslereconomics.com/2012/02/21/mmt-in-washington-post/ (budget surplus as a Danger)
The Up Shot - Bankers are self serving and while the Economy flounders causing harm to American People, the financial guys in Washington and on Wall Street "Get Fat Dumb and Happy". The Depression is known for the Bankers not lifting a finger to help or Lead the nation. The same thing is going on today. Only now there are political campaigns telling people things that makes the nation get poorer while Bankers get to control the money like in the Depression.
I noticed the election coverage exit polls all stated that American voters "are focused on the economy"... hmmm, I wonder why they said that? As any decent propagandist knows "REPEAT THE SAME SIMPLE MESSAGE OVER AND OVER AND THEY WILL BELIEVE IT".
"you are focused on the economy", over and over....
Ah, perfect Example of A Simple Narrative. Thanks.
Simple according to MSM or polling organzations is not credible. You can create survey questions to get a result that you want to publish.
Yep, that is what this Post is about. Looking for the complexity. Some of what we might say about the results is that Mitt represents the people that have caused the 2008 Financial Crisis. And MSM is saying that Mitt over-played some of his game accusing Barak and blaming Barak...even condeming Barak for saving Ohio Auto Industry... and they said Mitt didn't listen to people before putting out his message.
Sounds like Mitt was Judged a Lair and a Patriarch that was out of Touch.
Mitt WAS judged, wasn't he? And wow what a good sign that is, that old game that allways worked before didn't food enough people this time. There were still a lot that slurped it up though, almost half.
I bet there were many voters who USED to be staunch Repubslurpers, but this time they saw that their WORST choice was Mittwitt - the sick and tired, the humbled and desperate, depressed, disabled, different... they allways had felt more familiar with the bully talk but now they dared to think about what THEY need.
Dodged the Bullet. But Living in a Land of Illusions. We are surrounded by Lemmings. WWIII anyone. New war. Oh Rate Setting across America. Bail out money for banks to buy up US Real Estate, so they can rent to those who were foreclosed on.
Sorry, seems I am cynical.
Cynical is entirely appropriate... but here, I have something to cheer you up. Maybe Romney had some ideas we didn't imagine... here is a story I found at AlterNet:
That OTHER Mormon Presidency Bid - of 1844
In 1844 Joseph Smith, an apparent UFO contactee and the founder of the Mormon Church, brazenly launched his own political campaign for President of the United States. His stated goal was to overthrow the U.S. Constitution, and bring about a Mormon theocracy to the Nation.
Smith’s candidacy was always long shot, but that didn’t stop him from rallying his people to help clinch his destiny to be an independent commander in chief of the “army of God”.
Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not bow to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” He foresaw the emergence of “the one Mighty and Strong”—a leader who would “set in order the house of God”.
Smith’s call for a “theodemocracy where God and his people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” evidently did not sit well with the majority of voters in the United States, and brought down a lot of bad press and hostility upon the Mormons.
Smith’s presidential campaign was cut short while he was sitting in jail facing charges of treason and inciting a riot; an angry mob broke into the jailhouse and brought him to justice by shooting him to death.
Well I just peaked into the bridge and no one is steering this thing. lol Well Webster Tarpley did a couple of videos that introduced me to the prophesy. Also heard there were many Mormons in the FBI and CIA which is an interesting idea. Thanks for the story, I hadn't see it or heard of Joseph Smiths Death that way.
You see all the deleted comments on this thread? They were all VQ's. Is he a moderator or what? I was finally gonna chime in on one of the best VQ Bashing threads since the one that was devoted to him a few months back and shadow banned!?!?!
Saw those last nite before the outage. I don't know what he was saying or what was being discussed.
Many of the people that we need to reach out to do not understand how all of our individual grievances have one commom denominator. 'That' being the rise of neoliberalism, or crony capitalism which has played out on all of us and our loved ones in different ways. That basic tenet that has been in practice for the past thirty of more years, also coincides with the slide of the poor and the middle-class, and the astronomical increase in wealth of the 1%. And it has also caused people's interests to play second fiddle to corporate and banking interests. Capitalism has triumphed over democracy, and it is our formidable task to turn this around for our children's sake if nothing else.
We have to also realize that we have to keep it basic in our trying to bring people to our side. That is not because they are stupid, but rather because they have either grown lazy listening to repetitive catch phrases; or they have no time because of the daily demands of life including keeping a roof over their heads, and keeping their families fed; and then others just aren't into doing anything in what they feel there is nothing they can do to make a difference. So it is our job to make these people feel empowered, the way that people used to feel when so many positive social and economic changes were made in this country. We must be relentless in our struggle.
I believe it is important how we frame the issues, or like you said, how we tie them into each other. For instance, senior citizens, of which i am one, are on the whole very supportive of our military spending, but if you frame a question like: Are you OK with having your Social Securtiy, and Medicare being put in jeopardy while we continue to spend money on all these wars, and in having oodles of military bases throughout the world?? When put like that, it will at least plant the seed in these seniors that perhaps our priorities are mixed up, and that maybe there is 'somehting' to what these radicals are saying, and basically what we are saying is that this movement is not about left vs. right, but rather it is about right vs. wrong. It's that simple.
~Odin~
Excellent Post I agree and hope more people will read your post.
Corporate Strategies are predictable in hind sight. In 1970 OSHA was passed and workers had already gained worker Rights. So, corporate strategies had to be created to start off-shore production since the Banana Wars had proven the Strategy for Agriculture.
Why then wouldn't Corporations try to influence all US Policies (Wash DC) and infiltrate Univesities with Conservative Plants and Ideas. The Effect was apparently embraced around 1970 as NeoLiberal Economist from the Chicago School of Economics found firm footing in National Politics. Deregulate as under Milton Freidman and Allan Greenspan.
We are still feeling the effects of the Bubble which pulled US Dollars into High yeild Financial Schemes on Wall Street... and we still have all the False Ideas floating in our Economy and Politics. Politics is about planting FALSE Ideas in Media. Clearly there is a Conflict of Interest with Corporations using money and influence in Our Politics - Their only Purpose is to "Increase Profits'.
Small Business is the heart of the US Economy. And what is happening there? No small business Loans since like 2007. Dishonest Loans and Deals have driven Honest Deals Out of the Economy. This is Greshem's Dynamic. Maybe a Voter has to admit there was Crime and Fraud on Wall Street in order to proceed with any enlightened Discourse.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2010/03/black-the-best-econ-books-ive.html (Gresham's Dynamic)
Yeah, Obama is not a genius on Economics. His programs probably helped the Economy and prevented all out Depression, But too many people out of work who could be building infrastructure like Bidges, Roads, Schools, etc.
I Blame the Hard Ball that the Republicans always play. Sure they often Win and Make the Democracts Blink first. But they are the party of No. Except they like to start wars and spend on Defense while not bringing in tax dollars to pay for these expenses. They spend $4.1 Trillion, and cut taxes at the same time. This is not the way to Run a Business (stupid two faced Republican NeoCons, Saying government is a business is tounge in cheek here. Republicans compare the federal budget to a home or business budget and it is really a non sequitur, the logic does not follow).
I suppose someone should start a Post about Republican Non Sequiturs on the basis that business and financial Logic is extremely important to the US Future. We can't afford a nation of dumbed down republicans that don't understand busines and finance due to Non Sequiturs - put out by Politicians.
Thanks, there is no doubt that the repubs palyed a major role in our demise, but they did not do it alone. This corrupt sytem that benefits the rich at the expense of the rest of us is entrenched, and will not go down anytime soon at the voting booth. No longer having a vibrant independent press which seeks out corruption is a huge problem for us. Instead we now have a CMSM that acts more like a cheer-leader for the status quo. More than anything else, I believe what we have going for us is a young generation who has a lot to lose if things are not reversed. And from what i witness, they are bright, very determined, and relentless.
~*Odin
Yes, Let's Focus on Corruption for ten years. The power of corruption can be traced back for like 100 years. It is concealed. It is hidden. They make flowery speaches to hide what they do. We know the techniques of Corruption. We know the methods of con artist, flimflam men, and schisters. These are the methods of Congress. This is mafia. This is a Cartel. This is Banking.
Perhaps we have to bring back superstitious practices to protect ourselves from an obvious dark age that we had not seen since the begining of the Federal Reserve in 1910. They were called the Money Trust back then. They layed low and we forgot their tricks.
I have posted the names of those in our government that did not become Whistleblowers and did not help prosecute the bankers. Many of these people are federal regulators.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/big-picture-commom-questions-about-corruption/#comment-732991
http://occupywallst.org/forum/big-picture-commom-questions-about-corruption/#comment-732995
http://occupywallst.org/forum/big-picture-commom-questions-about-corruption/#comment-732988
http://occupywallst.org/forum/big-picture-commom-questions-about-corruption/#comment-702388
http://occupywallst.org/forum/big-picture-commom-questions-about-corruption/#comment-726962
http://occupywallst.org/forum/big-picture-commom-questions-about-corruption/#comment-651558
Being corrupt seems to be inbedded in human nature unfortunately. So we need to bring back an era of accountablity in this country, which includes a free corruption seeking press, a citizenry with a restored sense of outrage when they are betrayed by their leaders, and a depoliticized justice department.
~Odin~
Yes, it is human to have ego. Egoist will always try to take advantage of someone. And all deals have a winner and a loser. There is no way to create a law that keeps foolish people from losing their money.
But we seem to live in the Wild Wild West. That is why I say we live in the Banana States of America (BSA).
Hopefully this is just a 30 year Trend. Hopefully there will be a Backlash against Capitalism in the coming 5-10 Years.
All of the Fraud in Mortgage Bubbles, FInancial Bubbles, the AAA Rated Junk, Scandals in our Independent Audit Agencies, the Pay Offs to our Ratings Agencies, the Collusion between Lawyer, Bankers, Lobbyist, and Congressmen......
Agreed, I too long for the days when justice once again prevails at every level, and that is what we are here to do at OWS.
~Odin~
And now it is time to Vote ... I say vote against the 2 party system, Duopoly, Fraud, monopoly, Anti-Trust Electoral System.
I agree, and I have already cast my absentee ballot in NJ before I left for AK on Oct 27th. Green all the way except for one candidate for a state office from the Marijuan Party. That's after attending Obama's inauguration on that cold January day four years ago.
~Odin~
The generally accepted meaning of Old Norse Yggdrasill is "Odin's horse", ...trying to think of something witty here. Perhaps Odin relies on Literature or History to fill out his philosophy and rationality. In this sense perhaps, written history is your Yggdrasill?
You did your Civic Duty. We can ask no more of you.
Thanks, but voting alone as you know will not get us out of this mess. When more people realize that and start emulating what the people in Montreal and Iceland did, we will then have a chance for a sea change in the way our political and financial institutions are run.
~Odin~
Solution Plan #8, Get the acting President to invoke Patriot Act powers against Bankers and Regulators (some are both from time to time like Hank Paulson) ...Take them Away, Don't give them Due process, Seize their Assets to Claw back money, Put them in Jail and Isolate them from Lawyers. It is one Max Keiser interview basically here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32936.htm Max Keiser: 'Barack Obama is clueless. Mitt Romney will bankrupt the country' (Scroll about half way down the page)
That was a good link. I've been wathcing Max Keiser' s clips on YouTube for the past year. He seems to tell it like it is, although i am no economist. This rev, for me, more than anything else is about restoring justice, and that means banksters, who have caused untold misery having to answer for their crimes.
~Odin~
Let's make it so. Peace.
Well, Let's try some Analysis. Broadly we have a country composed of many systems all of which are corrupted. We can break them apart in many different ways, try to show relationships between systems, we can create charts or images to depict the systems ... But maybe all we know is that the trend points toward Crashes in certain systems.
1) Wages are being depressed for many reasons, i.e. corporations are being looted by executives that control their compensation packages.
2) The Consumer Economy has to Crash at some point as the percent of people consuming goods stagnates, declines, or begins buying cheaper goods instead of more expensive services and goods.
3) Energy Prices trend upward. Everyone expects an Energy Crash.
4) Water seems to be more valuable and scarce. Global Water crash is predicted if not in the US.
5) Food Crash depends on Energy prices, Water Prices, Pollution, and healthy labor force. Food Crash is predicted Globally if not in the US.
6) Education Crash, Tech School, College Tuition Increases.
7) Health Care Crash, seems dependent on high wages and availability of Good Jobs as well as afordable prices. Medical and Health Care Crash is predictable to me as prices continue to go up 15% - 20% per year as providers buy new technology and equipment each and every year Raising testing and Treatment cost.
8) Bank Services Crash, the expected wages of banking executives seems to point to a reduction in services in most retail banks. People will not want to pay fees for each purchase, withdrawl or payment.
9) US Infrastructure Crash, as Cities and States have budget deficits people will move to cities with healthier tax bases and healthy economies. This will Leave many towns and cities with crumbling buildings, roads, sidewalks, schools, This will create a dual class system much like third world countries where small towns and cities just don't get money to make repairs and have poor schools. We already have this in MO. MS. TN. KY. WV. TX. AL.
10) TV & Cable TV & Newspaper Crash, mostly what binds US people together is a sense that we are all alike and this comes from TV. But the money going to TV is lobsided. It comes from Ads and the profit margins are questionable. Some TV producers are going into movie making. But there are no more Investigator Reporters. They are saving money on reporters. You can go to Asia & Europe or other countries and the wages are low.
11) Crashes in the US may only look like poor people not being able to afford services that higher classes of society can afford.
Not sure that Analysis gets us anyplace right off the bat.
Assumptions:
A) If we are boiling frogs, we get poor slowly, wages decrease, benefits decrease, dollar deflates creating price inflation. Assume no one will rise to take back Washington.
B) If we are nickle and dimed to death much the same, each service has a charge and you get charged more of your pay check. Assume no big groundswell of grassroots.
C) If we are ripped off by Financial Schemes, high loan rates, no savings interest for savings accounts, high mortgage rates, high tuition and tuition loan rates, medical loan rates higher than 9%, etc. Assume eventual revolt 20-30 years down the road....
D) Assume Political and corporate leaders know the above and want us to be Boiling Frogs.
E) Assume Political Leaders have no soul, want to retain power, will continue to make deals for dollars with the Devil himself,... and assume Wealthy US and Global Lobbyist don't often care about politics, but want a say if it becomes important, so they will continue to play the lobby game.
F) Assume Wealthy Lobbyist have a plan B. They always have a way out ...like a golden Parachute. They are in the game to get stuff and chances are they already have more than they thought they could ever get. The Philosophy is "I'll Be Gone when everything Collaspes".
Not much of a Start on a Strategy but...
1) If we can kick out the wealthy Elite Lobbyist and their Government Puppets that are also Wealthy of course.... They will be Okay to go in the End, since they are rich... We would need to threaten them with Jail to get them to Retire or Move out of Country. We would say "Get the Hell out of Sight, End your Financial relationships with Lobbyist, We are going after Jail for Lobbyist, We are going to Claw Back Federal Dollars and taxes based on Tax Evasion Law".
2) There are subversion Laws also that could be applied.
3) There are laws in Anti Trust that could be applied if Congress and Voters pass Amendments.
4) There are Conflict of Interest Laws and Fraud or Bribery might play into enforcement of these laws.
5) Obviously OWS and the US Voter Must have Lawyers to push motions and Amendments.
6) There has to be a Streamlining of Civil and Criminal Courts which also probably require Amendments.
7) William K. Black would say that we can do it if we get the bad apples out of the a) DOJ b) Treasury c) Federal Reserve Chairman d) FDIC e) SEC and the President has to instruct the DOJ to prosecute Financial Control Frauds, Staff the FBI to investigate like additional 15000 staffers, request the State AGs forward referals.
Hell Bill Black is the only Hero we have and he knows this stuff.
So we are all Boiling Frogs and we need to educate people on the Loss in Wages, Jobs, Standard of Living, Higher Cost of Living, Folly of Government Statistics, Folly of GDP that uses Financial Transactions as real growth in the US Economy, Folly of Shadow Banking, Financial Crisis, ratings Agencies, Independent Auditing Agencies, Total Global Derivatives to GDP, Size of TBTF Banks, Money in Politics, and the Folly of Public Private Deals and tax abatements and corporate Welfare
Your predictions, prescription for righting this situation, and analysis for the most part are reasonable ones, that i can agree with. We can't forget though who the people are that we are trying to reach out to, so I believe we have to keep our message concise, and easily understandable, as you did with your last paragraph. Setting the people on the path to learning as many of us have here is essential, and it is good to know that ordinary people are tuning in to people like Max Keiser in big numbers
Thanks. I really appreciate you being here. You are helping me and helping the movement to change the Culture.
You're Welcome, and Thanks. I have learned much from some of the good posters here like shadz66, and even from some of the ones that I do not agree with on the roll that partisan politics should play here. But the many courageous determined, mostly young people that I have met in the streets of NYC, and in the OWS affinity group, Occupy Town Square that i belong to....well they have taught me , 'how we get there is as important as getting there.' It is by building 'community,' alliances, and friendships within our movement that we will succeed in the formidable task that we have taken on, and PERSEVERANCE is the key word.
~Odin~
You break the duopoly by controlling the vote; something like this;
Obama 47%
Romney 44%
Johnson 6%
Stein 2%
Other 1%
Ran out of room below. Young guys as teachers, Community as Teachers, OWS on the street showing so much and having so much to teach us all... I see my self as slower than many people in so much in life. I have some challenges, but can see and learn. I hold myself back from many social situations though...
I would grow if I could be in Greenwich Village, be around artists, be in a creative and open environment. If I am a nerd, then maybe I am looking for a virtual Greenwich. OWS Forum is a virtual Salon focused on Corruption in Banking and Government.
If I could stay in NY for a month as a home stay for like $300 dollars I would try it. I can afford food, but think would only travel in the day time and on busses, trains, trams, etc to stretch my budget. The problem is Travel is risky, expensive, and I find people want to dominate other people. Conservative people are sort of intimiadating when you work with them, because all your behavior, phone cons, appearance, politics, are a reason to target you and threaten your job. Conservatives Judge you, give you a reputation, and they controlled my life for years. NY City seems scary, but also expensive if a taxi cost $100. Same for LA, Miami, NO, ... I guess I gave up on travel to big American Cities 20 years ago due to cost. I am closer to Chicago. Recently drove through Chicago South West. Cheapest hotel is $60, found myself in Chicago Projects driving around. Everything came out okay. I've been in worse City areas driving in other cities. Pretty sure Visiting Brooklyn, Queens, Manhatten, Greenwich you don't want to have a car or rent a car unless you have a big bank account.
Actually looked at Hotels in Greenwich Village online after 9-11. Seems like an expensive trip once in the airport. $60 Dollars might be the normal low hotel price for any generic big city. Too much for any hanging out for months to find my way in the world. I suppose I always keep to myself till I feel out my surroundings.
That is why I am not working. I'm not happy with working for conservatives. And I don't see opportunity working in expensive cities. ....So, really see living cheaply as the way to go... and this means living outside the US.
Maybe foolish in that the biggest liberals probably live in the USA.
I'm still trying to fully understand patriarchy. Travel outside of the US seems to help me to feel this out. The feeling that if you don't have money, can't afford our services, aren't dressed well, don't have position, power, or money, ...don't hold our precise values ...then you are wrong and you should go away. Patriarchy wants us to act conservatively, safely, to work, to study, to obey, to follow, to Join the System of government and corporations... but not to listen to activists, not to listen to protests, not to question war, not to question policy.
People are Love. People are Conflict. People are Rejection.
Community is Love. Community is Conflict. Community is Rejection.
Risk & Opportunity. Both lead to Growth. To not Risk, Is to not Live.
You should try your best to overcome your fears, and take the plunge.
Ran out of run below. Thanks. You have an interesting life and a good story to be proud of. You have a lot to share and teach.
It would be difficult not to have a different outlook than most Americans do, when you have had a father born in Sweden
Thanks. You have understated what is true. There is a synchronisity here as well. I'm been ruminating about the past. A German man was exhorting me to jump into a cold pool over a period of 3 hours at a German Sauna. As a kid, I hated cold water. But it is bagage I don't need and ...simply doesn't fit my life any more. The story is that as I have gained weight, I can tolerate many rounds in Saunas. And a cold plunge is not only great, but is good for the skin and safer for long term sauna sporting...
I am a nerd in the sense that I hold myself back from people, but also in that I have many fears, and that I am very talented.
1) I am very creative, physically talented, could be spiritual, could be a teacher, could be logical in a way that moves beyond gridlock.
2) But kind of rather hold myself back from agressive people either to let them screw themselves, teach them how they run over the people that could be their resources, or maybe I get finally an ego stroke from knowing that they don't get my talent.
3) This is all a No-Mans-Land.
4) Personal relationships fall in this place.
5) I like and am attracted to people who have some self-deprecation. Obviously, if I am not agressive and am not confident - I would look to India, Thailand, Asia, for some culture of Respect for men (since I am a man), but not abuse of women. If there is place for women and a place for men ...this sort of sounds like equality. A US Culture of War is not a Land of Equality. And I have never found girls or women to be timid or need protection from me. Women should have equal pay, have the vote, get tattoos, lift weights, and many otehr things. 6) But in USA we see many people who seek social power, political power, physical power, ... and it seems to be (as always) about beating up, dominating, or dis-empowering people who are different, who are quiet, who are studying, who are following their culture, or who have more feminine aspects, who dance, who sing, who are artists, or just look different. 7) So OWS and Many - may be working on Cultural Changes
a) Embrace people who are Different b) Defend the Weak or Timid
c) Stop Waging War
d) Stop Empowering the people that profit from defense industries
e) Stop Tolerating Bullies, Stop enabling Right Winger who get away with extoling violence, callousness, war mongering, etc.
f) Create a Cultural Value against War and a deep understanding of the disease, mayhem, death, cultural destruction, familial destruction, and loss of historical treasures - that comes from war and agression.
If my life has value. Perhaps I have touched on it here. The US is Lobsided. It has too much disinterest in how it brings violence and creates Regugees. The US is an aggressive and violent nation. The US acts as an Empire even if it's method belie the fact.
Your Point that I should face my fears is timely and very true. I have a list of Fears that is very long. Could be I just wasn't raised like many other families, german, latino, english, viking, asian....
Perhaps in a society of "join the organization" or "join the Corporation" ... that we are TAUGHT to follow ...not unlike the japanese ... And we only have the right to LEAD when we are older ...when we have learned, been drilled with politics, and have learned to either a) shut up and take the money b) follow the big guy above you.
Hierarchy is a hell of a thing. Money is a hell of a drug too in the sense of dependence. Status is a corruptor. Power, Money, status, are corruptors and are filled with spiritual pitfalls.
Facing Fear - Could be - Should be - Do what is right, Learn to be Spiritual, Take a step and Take a chance on Learning Spiritual values.
Work, and Risk for Spiritual Values
Good Luck in any endeavors that you take on whether they are personal ones, or not. We all need to 'right' ourselves from time to time. All i can say is, never let anyone define who you are.
~Odin~
Thanks. Looking over what I wrote, it seems like something a person without a family would write. So, I guess I need to begin the journey to balance my life with family. Kind of thinking Maybe Goa would be a place to start since I have always been interested in the East.
Goa is a wonderful place.....nice people, beautiful beaches, and low prices. One of my daughters went over to India with the Rotary Club on a 9-10 month exchange program, and we visited and traveled around with her there for three weeks. A lot of Europeans go to Goa. and on the weekends they have a huge bazaar just off the beach. Goa was one of the Portugese strongholds, and hence you will find much of their influence there still including language, food, and Catholic churches scattered all around It is also where the Beatles went i believe, and afterward there was a lot of Eastern influence in their music. There is a train from Bombay, Mumbai now, but it was not completed yet when we were there though, so we flew there from Delhi where we were.
~Odin~
Everything begins with taking the first step. Set your goals, and do not be deterred by other people or hardships along the way.
Yes, Organization and goals are very much needed. Thanks.
You are welcome.
Cool story. Come to the land of OZ.
There's hundreds of thousands of people living a nomad existence, following the sun, and seeing the sights, and not paying rent at all.
There's free camping areas all over Australia, and the tourist bureau hands out booklets showing where they all are. It's a popular lifestyle choice here for many retirees, and also for younger gypsy souls like me.
Though I prefer truck stops, because they are usually less crowded, and I can enjoy a bit of a fire and a chinwag with like-minded souls. I just swag it, meaning roll out the bed on a low stretcher, and I can be packed up and gone in ten minutes, because that's how I like to travel. Might backpack it next trip.
I have many fond memories from the time I was in the land of OZ as a young man. My Kiwi wife to be, and I worked in a fruit cannery in Berri, and then hitch-hiked through the Outback Port Augusta...Alice Tennant Creek... Cairns, then onto Sydney. They even forwarded our tax return to an address we gave them in Brisbane. The night-life was super, and the youth hostels were great too. Many of the young people were going on from the fruit harvests there to work in fish canneries afterward.
~Odin~
That sounds good, but isn't it hard to get Visa to stay in OZ. Used to be you had to have specialized Skills and get a work visa. Maybe I need to do some research on line.
I like to travel with just a back pack, hat, 2 pair of shoes, a bag for water and something to eat. usually didn't carry a sleeping bag and roll. Do I need bug spray for rooms in OZ, heard that was normal in Central America and other places. Mosquito net in India. I've never sprayed a hotel room for bugs in my travels. Got bit in Philippines in the Hotel Room pretty bad.
You almost have me on free camping. But hard sometimes. sometimes you want company. Sometimes you like being alone.
Yes, a chinwag is valuable. What is a low stretcher? Sounds like a hamack between trees. I guess a foam mattress roll could be spread out on a wood floor, but could be my bones are getting old for that. Air mattress much better, but they seemed heavier.
Melborne is the Resturant City and expensive right. Sydney probably expensive. So the question is an Airport to start the Walk-About from. Still just a dream since air tickets are like $2K, but haven't checked this year. $1400 might be reasonable air ticket.
Check your prices into Broome or Darwin airports.
Sydney and Melbourne you might as well be in America. Nice towns, but just the same kind of city as anywhere.
You can get a working visa that extends for two years, and lots of our hospitality workers and fruitpickers are backpackers.
Oh, forgot to say, minimum wages here are about fifteen dollars an hour.
Oh Visa for Retirees 55 and over. Still trying to get the picture... Shower at the Truckstop, sleep at the truck stop outside, you have some kind of mattress or hammock, Bug are a seaonal thing I guess.
Don't know but in the 80s thought a work visa was hard to get.
Ever been to India? Seems like a lot to see and might be a thrifty lifestyle for half the year at a time.
I just found your link to Travel in Iran... Looks like great qaulity, thanks.
You will find a thousand different reasons not to have an adventure. For all the 'adventure traveling' i have done, i seldom ran into an American. I believe if more people in this country traveled when they were young especially, they would have a much better perspective on the world..
~Odin~
Yes. I'm a little introverted, but have traveled more out of the US. Not sure why Miami scared me with the Murder Rate in the 1990s. I drove through Miami 2 years ago in a small rental car, went out to the Island, South Beach, then flew out. Driving South toward the Keys, through Miami, seemed pretty good. Compared to Costa Rica, Ecuador, Mexico, Bahamas, ...Miami is great. Florida is fine as far as crime and safety. People are the same every where.
But I still have blind spots or hang ups. I met a guy from Lebanon or Syria in Ecuador 2 years ago. We got along fine for a few minutes at dinner and had an understanding. But I get nervous about drug dealers on the streets... and people that are just a little agressive. Many americans are too agressive for me.... You know we grow up with a lot of mean school yard behavior. Some Americans still act like they are in Middle School.
I take some bagage with me as I go through life.
You cannot be naieve when you travel in this country, or anywhere in the world, as there are good and bad people wherever you go. When you are 'on the road,' your senses become heightened, and for me, the best in my personality was brought out. You can either die knowing that you experienced life to the fullest, or succumb with regrets. The choice is yours.
~Odin~
Very Good. You remind me of the european people i have met. It is a very balance outlook. It is not at all like American (US) news and MSM.
You are right. People are the same everywhere. and there are no more dangerous gangs or dangerous people for the most part. It is more about being in the wrong place and talking to the wrong people. I have to admit I have talked with the wrong people, and gotten into the wrong things. But I pretty much came, saw, and went. I didn't get the violence that US MSM talks about. So maybe my fears are more from some of my stupidity and my home... dont' know. But people haven't been as scary and violent as when I was a pre-teen or young teen.
It would be difficult not to have a different outlook than most Americans do, when you have had a father born in Sweden, a wife who was raised in Zambia, Britain, and New Zealand, lived and worked with Norwegians, and having three daughters who between them have traveled to the far corners of the world. At our dining room table, between my ex, my three daughters, and i we have lived on, worked on, and broken bread with people from six of the seven continents. We have learned that all people want a better life for themselves, and their loved ones.
~Odin~
You either love to travel, or you don't. I'm heading for Lake Baikal in NW Russia. I fully expect to be snowed in for seven months. It's adventure for me.
On the Aussie visa, check your status on the link below. There's heaps of people from Canada, Europe and the US in Australia tripping around. Lots of Asians as well.
https://www.migrationexpert.com.au/travel_visa/online_application/?fid=100036&utm_term=%2Baustralia%20%2Btravel%20%2Bvisa%20%2Bfor&creative=11277378132&network=0&pl=&adgroup=6746790&match=b&gclid=CKnhvKqyv7MCFQVgpQoduiAAeg
You get a special discount during the winter on monthly rate on Dacha? I guess you won't have bugs flying around. Nice sleeping bad on a bed. Chop wood. Get water from a well. Sauna, beat each other with twigs or bushes... mmm food while snowed in beans, rice, noodles, lentles, ...oven might be nice...pancakes, Ice fishing? Russian Sausage?
I think I saw a Cooking Show at Harbin China. Actually looked fun fishing on the Ice and eating food in the Places. Maybe people get fun when the land is so cold. Lots of partying.
All the road stops have tank water, Bugs are area specific. You'd have to nominate a region. Little bush flies are more prevalent than mosquitioes, and they don't bite you.
Chop wood? Are you an axe murderer? Sleep under the stars in the outback? You'll find out just how many shiny dots inhabit the universe.
No, i am not tarring them at all. many of the problems that indiginous people have in Australia, and here in Alaska, where i am visiting family now, only started when the white man came around. it is sad, and there are no easy answers. One thing i have learned though is that 'they' have a very unique sense of being, that even we could learn from.
~Odin~
I was teaching for three years in remote indig communities.
Some of my best memories are from that time.
Sleeping under the stars in Coober Peady is a necessity if your tent has pegs, as you cannot drive them into the ground there. We actually slept in the abandoned Road House Cafe that night. I slept good until several Aboriginees who were drinking lots of wine decided to continue their party in an adjacent room. They never knew we were there, but as you can imagine, i did not sleep after that.
~Odin~
Teaching in those remote indig communities must have been a great experience. My hat is off to you.
~Odin~
Yeah. I'm hearin' ya.
The Pilbara was like that with the tent pegs.
I used to sleep on the roof of my troop carrier. Was comfy enough.
As for the indigenes, there's towns where the kids are running amok. The oldest living example of humanity, but they never got the alcohol happening until whitey turned up.
Organs can't cope with it. A lot are on kidney dialysis from an early age, and the life expectancy is a lot lower than the rest of us. Sad. But with over four hundred individual tribal groups, you can't tar them all with the same brush.
No I was looking at Lake bikal Russia on Wikipedia. Pictures show you have towns build up along the Lake. take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Baikal
we have a cooking show (same one, Andrew Zimmerman, Bizzar Foods) ...and he goes to Maine, USA, they stay in a cabin in the woods, carry water, chop wood in the winter time with snow and Ice. he also goes to a Russian Dacha and they take a sauna, whip each other with branches and jump in the Lake.
Lake Baikul...either half or a third of the entire world's fresh water is in that lake, right? I learned that from a Russian girl who grew up near there, and who stayed with us when my kids were in their teens.
~Odin~
20% of the fresh water in the world. It's so deep, can't remember, but miles and miles.
No, I'm not a casinso man myself, but I remember several people from the youth hostel were going to gamble. Tasmania is much like the south island of NZ as i remember. Keep in my my commentaries are based on being there almost 40 years ago. ;-)
Anyway, have fun and stay safe on your adventures mate. I hope some day to return to your wonderful country.
~Odin~
Beautiful Tasmania, cool, cold even....will you see the Devil? You needed a tuxedo, or a suit to gamble in Hobart, as I remember....maybe not anymore. Great apple orchards there, and good champagne-like apple cider with a fizz, and a kick out of the tap, right? Also I remember the prison colony, and the British habit of anchoring prisoners out in the water at low tide. And lastly, I remember seeing my first old open-pit copper mine there. Gee, what a mess.
LOL. Thanks for the commentary.
I'm not into casinos, and I'll be walking the isolated west coast, so yes, I'll be seeing some devils. Hoping for some Canadian salmon fishing too. The Taswegians imported them quite a while ago.
It should be a great adventure for you. I wish you a safe trip.
~Odin~
Thanks. I'm going to Tasmania first, to get used to camping out in freezing weather.
OK, I'l go with that. I knew that the lake was extremely deep, and the surface area isn't as large as some of the other big lakes in the world.
The doco I saw on the lake, it freezes over solid, and the outlying townspeople can then cross the lake to get supplies, and trade their gold and whatever.
Road trains drive across the lake, because the surrounding mountains have no roads. Exciting place to visit. Looking forward to it.
I didn't have a working visa when I went to Aussie land, and the province of South Australia, did not care, as they needed people badly to work in the orchards, vineyards, and canneries. And unike here at the time, there were no migrant farm workers. While picking grapes for a few days, I will always remember with a smile, a grape grower telling me that he used to pay people by the hour until he found a couple 'rooting' in his vineyard while they were on the payroll. ;-) He was amused by it too. lol
~Odin~
There's a line in a song from a popular band called Midnight Oil that goes like this; "and no-one goes outback and that's that."
Plenty of work all over Australia, if you're adaptable and friendly. We don't bite. Most Aussies are very helpful and quick to make friends.
You have a wonderful country with friendly people. One of the other memories that I have was getting a ride from Alice Springs on our way to Mt. Isa, and Cairns in a truck. There were two Canadian guys, my girlfriend (who became my wife), and me. There was only room for two people in the cab, so being the gentlemen that we were, the guys took turns riding atop a bunch of stuff in the back. Up until that point, I had regretted bringing a jacket with me, but in the cold night desert air, it was happy that i did. The memories of that truck being the only thing to break the 'quiet' and of watching the sun rise in the Outback is one that will always stay with me. I learned a lot in this, my first great adventure in OZ, and i will alwys be grateful for the kindness your countrymen showed me.
~Odin~
That road between Tennant Creek and Mt Isa is one of the longest stretches of nothing in the country. Lucky to see another vehicle when I first drove it. These days, there's so many people on the road permanently, that some of the road stops where I used to sleep are now established free campgrounds. I like it.
I want to lose the vehicle and hitch it next time. East coast down to Tasmania sounds good.
Your being nostalgic is only surpassed by my being envious of your planned adventures. Once again have fun and stay safe. Learning more about life will be a natural by-product.
~Odin~
Don't they have shallow lakes, and when the wind blows, the whole lake will move with it? I also remember camping out on the dry at the time, Evelyn Creek on our way to Alice. The three guys who picked us up were real characters, and we drank beer with them for hundreds of miles telling stories, and laughing. We kept the fire going all night, and in the morning before anyone was up, i saw an Aboriginal horseman riding off into the sunrise. Yet another picure that will stay in my mind forever. Later for breakfast, we all threw in what we had, our contribution was a couple cans of Riverdale Ardmona fruit salad which went over real big. :-)
~Odin~
Good times: I'm getting all nostalgic.
Time to start planning the trip.
On the shallow lakes, must be around Lake Eyre, which is south of the Alice heading for Port Augusta.
Hitching is good because you meet a lot of people. What you gain more than off-sets the loss of not having your own car. I/we met so many good, interesting people, and the Youth Hostels were great when i was there. I did a circle starting in Sydney, heading south, then west, north from Adelaide, etc, then returning to Sydney, with a side trip to Tasmania. And before, and after that, I hitched across this country , from NJ to CA and back. I regret not having the time not to go to Perth, though.
Hitching is not popular here as it was when i was young. i guess that isn't true in Australia though. Is the main road from Port Augusta, north to Alice still mostly a one lane gravel road? Probably not. One of your countrymen told me that if the Aussies could build roads from the pubs, they would have the best roads in the world. ;-)
~Odin~
LOL. The Stuart hiway is bitumen and dual carriageway top to bottom. It was only about five years back that our major hiway got sealed, and that was a stretch between Mt Isa and the Territory border. It was a horror stretch, particularly when wet. One trip I did it was under a metre of water for miles and miles. When a truck was coming the other way, I had to drive off the road, and hide behind some trees, because the truck would push a bow wave that would have swamped me. Aaaah, memories.
As for hitching, you really don't see many doing it. There was a movie called Wolf Creek that kinda put a stop to that kind of travelling. Best to use the notice boards at backpackers and such, as well as free web boards like gumtree. I find if you're gonna hitch, get yourself out to the city or town limits, like in a bus or train, then start hitching. Safer that way.
Perth is quite a big city now, sprawling out in either direction. The trip south of Perth to Augusta was one of my more memorable ones. A string of perfect beaches, with wineries and limestone caves. Took three days to travel 150 miles. Lots to see and do.
Darwin was closed off to visitors when I was in OZ, as the 1975 cyclone had just occurred.
~Odin~
I was coming into Darwin on a flight from Brisbane, and a storm decided to settle right on top of the runways. We circled above until fuel became an issue, and had to land on a strip that had half a metre of water on top of it.
I've never seen a 747 slow down that quickly. Was pretty hairy scary.
Its better than landing in the Hudson though. I would be scared shitless too.
There was a lot of screaming going on. One of the engines apparently stalled and there was a momentary power outage, but clearly the pilot managed to keep it on the runway. He actually told us before going down that we would be in for a bumpy ride, but no other option was available. Nearest airport was too far away.
Really sounds scary.
Social Security & Medicare is not in Jeopardy. What are you talkin about?
Some tweaking to increase the wealthy peoples contributions is necessary but there is no risk these programs will fail.
Certainly I agree we should end the war on terror & cut the defense budget
But we don't have to scare seniors into cutting it by saying they will lose their earned benefits.
Sorry.
Peace & Solidarity.
Medicare if vast changes aren't made, more han Social Security is indeed in jeopardy, and as I recall SS is slated to be reduced by .3% per year over the next ten years.
Nope. Wrong & wrong.
Just some tweaking in adding wealthy Americans contribution should be implemented.
Don't let republicans use that scare tactic to voucherize or privatize these important valuable earned benefits!
In order to put these programs on a firm foothold, we have to change our priorities which includes, but is not limited to, spending far less on defense, and that is something that neither party has truly thought about doing. So my point is there definitely is a tie-in that we should use in presenting our case to the unaware.
~Odin~
Spending is a problem! Agreed. Waste/fraud/abuse in all parts of the budget.
Most of all, I agree the defense budget most be cut drastically (1 say 50% is ok),
I cannot agree that this need to cut is related to the earned benefits of Medicare & Social Security.
I believe we have overlooked wealthy Americans income when we devised the funding mechanism for these programs. The payroll cap on SS must be removed so that wealthy contribute for their upper income. We must also correct the mistake of not taking contributions from cap gains/rental/passive income.
With these painless tweaks we can lower the retirement age which can open up jobs for younger workers.
So I agree cut defense (and other budget waste) but I cannot attach that effort to SS/Medicare.
Peace
There are only so many pieces of pie. Assuming at some point we want a balanced budget, you either have to give someone a smaller peice of pie....the Defense Department.... or you have to bake a new one.
~Odin~
Yeah, I'm saying we can grow the pie by asking the bakery owner togive up more dough. (increase SS contribution on higher payroll, & adding cap gains contribution).
But again I agree with your proposal to cut defense budget (I say 50%),
I also propose we can cut from non defense in regards to waste & fraud..
Before we start asking more from the bakery owner, we should expect the corporations, that supply him with all the ingredients to fork over more "dough." 50% cut on defense sounds good to me. Now we have to get rid of all the dems and repubs who have supported this military spending, and adventurism, right??
~Odin~
Sure. I'm waiting for the new system, horizontal, ground up, direct democracy. Hows it going? Got a status?
Until it emerges I will use my energies to replace pro bakery owner conservatives w/ pro bread buying progressives.
Your "progressives" are dressed in "conservative" clothing, and your continuing support of this corrupt system shows you are no revolutionary.
~Odin~
Perhaps your energies will be best used focusing on the revolution you allegedly desire rather than outing me (and anyone else) as a non revolutionary.
What I am is irrelevant. Unless perhaps you need to discredit me because my opinion and civil approach resonates and threatens your clear anti dem agenda.
Peace, & Solidarity.
You are willing to settle for piece-meal legislation that is not really progress at all. It's just more of the same BS. All this, while still claiming to want revolutionary change.
BTW, why did you remove all your comments on this thread? Were they uncivil?
~Odin~
nope!
The election is over. We must focus on remaking the system, from the ground up, horizontally, w/ direct democracy. Do you know how that is progressing?
We must fight for the change that will help 3rd parties succeed. (movetoamend, nationalpopularvote, opendebates)
And we must agitate all pols for change the benefits the 99%.
The election is over!
Peace, & Solidarity
over $700 billion taken from medicare , given to obamacare.
Republican talking point lies! money taken from health care corps (private ins corps, hops & other providers) not the recipients.
Also used the $700B to pay for Bush prescription donut hole, & cutting co pay visitation costs for seniors.
vacuous, you are wrong again ( nothing unusual about that ) over $ 700 billion shifted from medicare to pay for obamacare, part B medicare going up in january 2013, COLA was %1.7 , the smallest increase in over 35 years.
Nope. More republican fear mongering.
Repubs have ALWAYS been against Medicare (and Social Security) they have tried to destroy these great earned benefits since there inception. They currently want to voucherize and privatize them respectively in an attempt to destroy them. They spread the lies you spew to justify that destruction.
Dems created these great earned benefits and have fought the repubs to protect both programs.
Everyone should recognize these realities and trust those fighting for the survival of Medicare & Social Security.
Most definitely we must NOT believe the repubs who have been fighting against these very valuable earned benefits.
Sorry. As always we disagree.
I support the continued effort to fight repubs who are trying (again) to hurt our seniors so they can save a few of their own tax dollars.
Greedy, selfish, inconsiderate, bastards!
thats right , voucher and privatize, the right way to keep it going. NO ONE over 55 would have a change in their benefits. changes have to be implemented to keep it for those UNDER 55. dems /libs/progressives are the last 4 words of your post.
As I said voucherize, & privatize are recipes to destroy these great earned benefits.
I have contributed for 30 years i deserve to get what I paidfor.
The programs are not in danger of failure THAT is the repub fear mongering lie!
We only need to increase the contribution of the wealthy by a small amount and the programs will be fine for 100 years.
your delusional, and insane .how did you ever get out of your staight jacket?
You resort to insults because the weakness of your arguments.
You know what that means! I win & you lose.
LMFAO smoked your sorry ass! Beat you like a used salvation army drum.
Peace!
just telling the truth about a silly, drooling, foaming, mouth breather, in other words,.............YOU.
Smoked, Beaten, You are spent! Your negativity speaks volumes about your vacant opinions.
You lose. Today the country must reject the right wing conservative policies that are the cause of all our problems.
Peace
still playing in your one person circle jerk.
So it is just the sick thrill?
Were you bullied as a child?
Say something meaningful that reflects a modicum of intelligence.
You ain't said nothing of value. Never positive. Do you think you will change opinions by insulting people.
Or do you just get a sick thrill by putting people down?
LOL
you cant get blood from a stone.
corporate welfare, one can not afford to live if one does not have a job
We can work for small businesses, government, or start our own enterprise. It is just difficult to compete against corporate welfare.
money is automatically drained from the system through rent and interest and low wages
small businesses can only tap a dwindling supply
There is a Economic Term called Rent Seeking, which You and I might agree on a defintion of people like bankers taking a piece of the money by acting as middle men.
I looked for a defintion and looks like the term might have different meanings to different people. Wikipedia defintion works for me.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentSeeking.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking
Some people take wealth from the system without creating any wealth or benefit ...perhaps by acting as a middleman. This is what Wall Street Bankers do.
Also I guess large Corporations get subsidies and government assistance while using debt and offshore production to drive all the little guys (competition) out of business. I think this is what you are talking about.
the corps manipulate government to stem competition
Ok. We have five days to the election. Just get this over with.
I would just like to point out this one small thing that we have already established. Obama is not a communist. You have to be an uneducated hilljack to believe that he is. Really. We can tie that to a shit load of people that were busy making out in the bleachers instead of going to their high school political science class. Really.
Economics is all theory. It is not a hard science. We can tie this in to a shit load of people that were busy making out in the bleachers instead of going to their Econ 101 class in high school. Or college class. Really.
Bankers are self serving. We saw the same thing during the depression. This isn't new. We can tie this in to a shit load of people who were making out in the bleachers instead of attending their high school US history class.
Democrats don't need to educate anyone. In fact, we have reached a point where it would do the Democrats a world of good if they just STFU and listened for a minute. Or five. They won't do this and it will and has cost them plenty.
Guess you missed the point, but I'm sort of not as politically sensitive as you are.
I can go down to the store and talk to self-made, smart old guys that beleive Obama is a communist and a Muslim.
The point is not that I am smart. I'm nothing special. The point is all simple narratives are wrong and dangerous. But could be you are way out ahead of me politically and you like the back and forth of arguing. Where I don't like to argue at all. So you are probably way ahead of me.
simple truths are all we got
Yes, but there are two sides of the Coin. There is always more to Learn in the Most Complicated Country in the World. Are US Politics Simple? Are US Financial Systems Simple? Is it Simple to Start a business and stablize it for the first 5 years in the US?
Clearly if we looked to Literature, Science, Logic, Philosophy, and many things ...the beauty is found in the complexity. The Developement.
But we can make some simple statements at times that are very helpful. And some powerful turths are taught by Rote Learning of Simple Statements. And it is up to the Student to find the appropriate situation where to apply the "Rule of Thumb".
Heuristics are kind of a lofty goal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic
But We Would Never Send kids to school to learn Rules of Thumb. Maybe I am not the right person to talk - since my own schooling has been very poor. If we teach kids the questions and answers on national test ...maybe that is an analogy here.
There are many paths, E=MC squared, F=MA, God is Love, fundamental principals are not "thumb rules" they are building blocks, thumb rules have their place they allow those unable or unwilling to understand fundamentals to function in complex environments, (I am very familiar with this) it is always wise to ensure the presence of someone with deeper understanding if one wishes to avoid Three mile Inland.
Good Points. Mostly I am thinking of my own political follies. I've spent years listening to conservative points. Usually it is couched as Right and Wrong. Like democracts are for big government and that is not Right. Big government is wrong. Democracts increase the Budget. That is wrong. Big Budgets are Wrong and Democracts are Bad for the USA.
They are Simple messages of Right and Wrong. But you look at the details and it is more complicated (as you know). #1 Republicans seem to be the Big Spenders, #2 It is irresponsible to have huge Defense Budget increases without finding increase in Revenue, #3 Social Sefety Net prgrams are set up as Trusts which have their own Revenue Stream and we would not like the USA without social safety nets (poverty, violence, domestic crime, increased prision populations).
This Simple Idea that Republicans are Wrong or Democracts are Wrong is a Political party Battle/war ...that doesn't teach kids or young adults anything.
Paul Green, Political Scientist, near Chicago, stated today that all the money spent on Political Campaigns this year were wasted. Billions of dollars? Because no candidate used the opportunity to take a real position on the problems like Pensions .... so No one was educated in this Campaign year.
It's not by accident that you have been hearing the same simple messages and one could be excused for being wary. If every yellow car you see runs into you, you'd start to careful around yellow cars. The Right has spent millions (billions?) on spreading carefully developed thoughts designed to obstruct the truth.
You are right. We all need and use Simple Truths just to start our day and keep flowing. We get up, get what we need, get ready, dress for weather, rate or judge people that come into our lives, make decisions, etc. We can't do any of those things without "Simple Truths" as our guidelines.
And Propaganda is the act of Highjacking our mind. Trying to use things like Proverbs from the Bible to Label opponents, and to Label Incumbents.
Trust THIS friday. Obama is a gay, socialist, Muslim. I know gay and muslim don;t go together, but he is such a liar, it works for him
There is some strong media messages out there that are very convincing apparently. Results do matter. Actions matter. But the US Economy is like turning an Aircraft Carrier. Obama came in without much experience, and he quickly looked like he was bailing on his campaign platform ...and kowtowing to Republican Extremist.
I don't mind who Obama is... I think a Black man can read up on communism and be raised a Muslim ...and still be our American President ...with an American Story that is Authentic.
The Real Risk is that we have Puppet Masters above the US Presidency... Or that older congressional players are Really Elitist... Or that Money has Captured all our Regulatory Agencies AND ALL of Congress and All US Presidents.
Anyway, I don't Blame Obama for the Economy, Look at the federal budget from 1998 or all under Clinton. Wasteful War Spending is a trend and policy formed under Reagan. Going to War was a wastefule Policy formed under Georgie W. But then VIetnam was a Wasteful Policy formed under L.B. Johnson. Capitalism has been corrupted in the US at Least ...as far back as Vietnam. We had progress untill like 1970 or maybe the end of the Vietnam War.
Corporate Strategies are predictable in hind sight. In 1970 OSHA was passed and workers had already gained worker Rights. So, corporate strategies had to be created to start off-shore production since the Banana Wars had proven the Strategy for Agriculture.
Why then wouldn't Corporations try to influence all US Policies (Wash DC) and infiltrate Univesities with Conservative Plants and Ideas. The Effect was apparently embraced around 1970 as NeoLiberal Economist from the Chicago School of Economics found firm footing in National Politics. Deregulate as under Milton Freidman and Allan Greenspan.
We are still feeling the effects of the Bubble which pulled US Dollars into High yeild Financial Schemes on Wall Street... and we still have all the False Ideas floating in our Economy and Politics.
Small Business is the heart of the US Economy. And what is happening there? No small business Loans since like 2007.
Yeah, Obama is not a genius on Economics. His programs probably helped the Economy and prevented all out Depression, But too many people out of work who could be building infrastructure like Bidges, Roads, Schools, etc.
I Blame the Hard Ball that the Republicans always play. Sure they often Win and Make the Democracts Blink first. But they are the party of No. Except they like to start wars and spend on Defense while not bringing in tax dollars to pay for these expenses. They spend $4.1 Trillion, and cut taxes at the same time. This is not the way to Run a Business (stupid two faced Republican NeoCons).
like most cons you missed your mark....
You ARE smart.
I can too. But, we need to recognize that self made smart old guys can be unbelievably ignorant as well. How smart are you if you think Obama is a communist and a Muslim?
There are two sides of the coin.
Yes, we can dismiss people that pass on narratives that Obama is a Communist or a Muslim.
But they may be teaching and spreading the strange and carefully crafted message of a Super PAC or Extremist Politican. There has been a National Campaign to teach that Obama is a Communist and a Red Baby. This DVD actually could have some truth to it. Did you get that one in the Mail?
Anyway Action Speach louder than words. Performance Matters. Many people have private or not so private agendas. I don't care if Obama has been gay, bisexual, communist, socialist, or Muslim. That kind of story could be very American.
I will never convince a person upset about a Communist or Muslim President to like him, but Maybe We Can Teach Politican Science type stuff to these guys. Point out the Huge Budget Spending by Georgie W. Point out the Fruitlessness of All Wars going back to Vietnam. Point out how no one complained at the record Setting, Precedent Setting, Deficit Spending of George W., $4.1 Trillion. At a time where they Cut Tax Revenue. Which is a favorite policy of Republicans... Increase Spending on Defense to make the MIC Richer ... while cutting Taxes. Let's see a Business do that. Let's see Romney Do that at Bain Capital. This is a Two faced Strategy.
I guess you could say the Two Sides of the Coin for the Republicans. A) Defense Spending is always good, War Spending is always good, never mind the Refugees, never mind the Wounded, Never mind the Dead civilians, and never mind the Total US Deficit, we'll cut tax revenue. B) Horror, Trust Funds like Medicare and SS sometimes have declining revenue. Horror, Financial Crisis has expanded Food Stamps program. Horror we deregulated Banking and Mortgages and the Economy is not growing in the Financial Area any more due to collaspe. Horror, we should help bankers since they are asking for Corporate Welfare and they pay for our Campaigns, Conventions, PACs, and New Legislation. Horror. we should increase Defense Spending even more to Boost the already Lobsided Defense and MIC Economy... and why not provide low cost loans for Pipelines, Petroluem Exploration, and Fracking (Subsidy not Free Enterprise)
The painstaking chronological order in which you document government and ruling elite corruption is a thing of awe...and a skill beholden uniquely by you on this forum. I want to thank you for all that you do here for us. Thank you Middleaged.
Thanks. I suppose you like the Timeline kind of references. They are worth further work. I'm just a beginner. Perhaps in a couple of years I could really have something big.
(maybe I should read these before I twinkle)
Are you the same person who was toying with hchc a few months ago?
OK so dems got some issues but really you don't see the difference between Alito and Kagan?
And in Wisconsin the party said don't do this you will lose and they did, so being right is a bad thing now?
I wish there were no Republicans so we could whip the Ds into shape but I'm not arguing over desert when there's no protein on the plate.
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What's to toy with? Other ids, then maybe. The big J ID-I shoot straight with. He knows that by the nature of his profession I can't trust him. He is also aware that if he were me, he wouldn't trust it either. By the same token, I at least know who I am dealing with 100 % of the time with hchc.
I see the difference between Alito and Kagan. It's very real. Those issues with the Dems are very real. They present a problem. If you thought that I would be quiet simply because there is an election then you have the wrong girl.
These elections draw the most participation but, due to the electral college, it is also the area the people have the least amount of control.
In Wisconsin, the Party said.........that is a state issue. Now they can remember that. See, Wisconsin is the state that many of the Dems are getting money from the right wing faux privatization organizations. States-where the people do the living, working and dying in.
I wish we didn't have rethuglicans either. That ain't the case.
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Grow the fuck up. The only either/or scene is the one in your fucking little melon. Carl Rove's machines have your asses jump wherever he fires his little pistols. You don't think. You react. You are no better than Rove.
What party does Jean Quan belong to? Did she call ows economic terrorists for shutting down the Port? What party does Bloomberg belong to? What party does Rahm Emanuel belong to? Why did the Democrats fuck Wisconsin? Why are the Democrats accepting cash from right wing organizations for faux privatization in education?
That is just domestic. Not even touching international relations.
So, don't even play that victim shit. You need to start listening to the people. You want to act like douchebags. Then you fucking have the balls to stand up and wear that douchebag badge proudly.
why isn't healthcare provided for free ?
Well, technically, nothing is for free. We pay for it through taxes.You have to say that because it allows the right wing douchbags to have a knipshit over what is completely obvious. But, ya-we know why it isn't.
energy comes from leaves and algae
to keep us dependent on our jobs, so that we work hard, that's what most of our rules are based on
(maybe I should read these before I twinkle)
Are you the same person who was toying with hchc a few months ago?
OK so dems got some issues but really you don't see the difference between Alito and Kagan?
And in Wisconsin the party said don't do this you will lose and they did, so being right is a bad thing now?
I wish there were no Republicans so we could whip the Ds into shape but I'm not arguing over desert when there's no protein on the plate.
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No, I smack the shit out of the right wing frequently. I am over the repetitious vote third party shit. It isn't about remaining silent. It is about doing some actual thinking instead of reciting rhetoric.
Your arguments are with other pr firms. You guys have run off the vast majority of the other posters. Nobody is reading the shit you guys post. They are gone. Here is your fucking cookie. You are not a fucking victim.
the pace seems steady here
I know, right?
Damn...
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It IS you. :D
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99.9% sure. BTW, love the clean up on aisle nine below.
Second time that I have seen that roll through.
"clean up"? don't know what you mean.
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VQ - I do not know anymore who you are - I have tried to help you communicate on this forum - and for awhile you seemed to appreciate the advice - Let me tell you something - If you are an actual supporter of OWS(?) you really need to stop attacking everyone who disagrees with you as being a right wing plant.
Take the advice you were given earlier in this ( this ) thread - and grow-up.
plant do all the work converting the sun's light into energy
Exactly, Matt. That's one truth the 1% doesn't want anyone to acknowledge.
Hemp is the obvious replacement for a lot of controlled industries. The most nutritious and clean-burning oils on the planet.
Actually chlorophylls do the work, mostly in “factories” provided by plants, but some are small business cyanobacteria.
we prize our independence and are dependent on everything
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If one person tells you that you have a tail - you can pretty much laugh it off - If two people tell you you have a tail - you might want to stop and take a look - If everyone tells you that you have a tail ( and this would seem to be your case ) - then you can accept the fact and decide what to do about it.
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You don't need to take a poll.
You need to listen.
You need to stop and think - before you reply/react.
But you react 1st and then you refuse to stop think and consider and you lock yourself in place.
You have much growth to do in the area of communication.
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You can not enter into a discussion and keep on topic - you make a statement - then - when someone asks you to elaborate - you quite often regard that as an attack - your ability to communicate shuts down and you go on the defensive - you won't expand on your position - and you won't listen to the other persons position.
What happens from there is that you keep accusing that individual of being a right wing plant - instead of stopping and continuing a discussion.
What happens then - is - that people get tired of the BS of trying to have a conversation with you and will start slapping you down.
I have explained this to you before - but it does not penetrate to your thinking place - you would rather feel persecuted - I guess.
Well said!
Most intelligent people probably dismiss his comments as ridiculous and it useful for him to hear that from us.
Good job.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-do-americans-love-war-so-much/#comment-861588
Ow - a comment returns home ( after a fashion ) from afar to make a point. Wicked return {:-]) of the original serve.
Is this an observation?
"You are an asswipe and I am ripping your head off and shitting down your throat."
Or as that the worst communication and most horrible offensiveness.
Or is calling someone "right wing" worse?
PLEASE RESPOND!
Refer to an earlier part of my communications with you today - you put people off - you take there questioning as an attack rather then a request for more information from you ( a continuation or starting-up of a discussion ) - then you shutdown and go into defensive mode and go on the attack with the right wing stuff. People get sick of this and will slap you down - and not everyone is so polite as you in their put downs - you go right wing - they may go right hook.
Now by this point in time you should have plenty of food for thought. Take the time and think about it. And do not start with resentment of what was said to you take an honest look at the information ( don't come back to me with it as you have already made up your mind as to what you think I am doing - find a neutral party that knows you and will be honest with you - and have a discussion BTW not your girlfriend - because if she knows you well and is honest with you you will likely take it as an attack )
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There you go - ACCUSATIONS - not at all - OBSERVATIONS
This is what you need to work on - people making observations are not making accusations - there is your defensive filter kicking in saying that anything you do not want to hear is an attack.
What communication problems? You are a douchebag. I'm letting you know. You are hearing what I am saying.
Sounds like great communication is occurring.
The Call - The Walls Came Down
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I thought it reflected the two party foreign policy "debate" well
What party does Jean Quan belong to? Did she call ows economic terrorists for shutting down the Port? What party does Bloomberg belong to? What party does Rahm Emanuel belong to? Why did the Democrats fuck Wisconsin? Why are the Democrats accepting cash from right wing organizations for faux privatization in education?
[Deleted]
She didn't say they should be silenced. Her comments was basically saying "They need to listen to the people"
How you have missed the point of her comment over and over again is unbelievable.
She said STFU. Why you pretend otherwise is your misfortune.
And if that were true she should have responded with some measure of civility, and respect.
If there was a miscommunication it could have been clarified. I think she enjoys the childish obscene personal attacks.
Many people come here it seems for personal socializing & not discussing important issues. Perhaps she is one.
I didn't. Go back and read what I wrote.
This time pull your head out of your ass so that you can see.
If you cannot accept those mistakes then don't defend the shit either. Pretty simple shit.
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Bullying? I'm just ripping your head off and shitting down your throat.
I think you kind of like it, though.
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Never.
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Ever the victim.
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[-]2 points by GirlFriday (9385) 36 minutes ago
Bullying? I'm just ripping your head off and shitting down your throat.
I think you kind of like it, though.
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[Deleted]
Spoken like a douchebag that intentionally took it out of context and refuses to go back and reread what I wrote. Yay you.
Quit whining.
[Deleted]
It isn't about silencing groups, douchebag. You are willfully, intentionally misconstruing shit. You are an asswipe and I am ripping your head off and shitting down your throat. I think you kind of like it.
You reap what you sew and you've been reaping a lot.
I never sew the immature, obscene, personal attacks that I've been subjected to.
Decent people know I do not deserve this. I remain civil, respectful, & hopeful I can discuss important issues with intelligent, mature people.
The childish personal attacks only betray the shallow, ignorant, angry tactics of a bully.
Peace
You ran me off.
I disagree!
I don't even know you!
How did I run you off?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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You are the only one here who has ever sent me a PM telling me to "fuck off," so your call for civility is bullshit.
~Odin~
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I have some faults as you probably know, but 'lying' isn't one of them. At best, you have a poor memory VQkag.
~Odin~
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Most of us have experienced your sly inuendos, and the disingenuous, condascending way that you discuss "important issues," and know that it is a waste of time to engage you. It is impossible to have a civil discussion with someone like yourself, who is inherently uncivil, and one who is not here for the right reasons.
It is good to see that your comments that once enjoyed big twinkles when you had multiple pseudonyms (lol), are now in the negative. As i have pointed out before, you are even an embarrassment to those who may share your partisan politics view out of conscience.
~Odin~
Long time no see, man.
The negative numbers you are seeing are a more accurate reflection of the truth compared to a few months ago, before he got caught. He's still up-voting himself with another username, but can't risk up-voting himself 1500 points a week like he was doing in mid-summer.
Not true! I am paying no mind to the numbers. I am not personally attacking anyone.
Small, shallow people may be wasting time attacking me through the numbers but I can't say who, & I don't care.
Same here man....long time, no see I figured that you got frustrated by it all, and just quit. There does seem to be a turn for the better on here which i am happy about. I think everyone got tired of the back slapping, and missed us. lol People do grow in their thinking too, and I applaud anyone who has. We still have that little AH here as you pointed out, but he helps keep our writing and thinking skills sharp. Errr....that's some positive thinking for you, eh?
Anyway it is good to see you back my friend. We need more people like you here
~Odin~
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It was extremely accurate though, eh? I have had my fill of you for the day, so you now have the chance to continue your partisan BS. See ya.
~Odin~
You used to do it under your other account "RepubsRtheproblem"
You don't have the capacity to do that. You lack integrity.
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Meow, meow, meow, meow.
What party does Jean Quan belong to? Did she call ows economic terrorists for shutting down the Port? What party does Bloomberg belong to? What party does Rahm Emanuel belong to? Why did the Democrats fuck Wisconsin? Why are the Democrats accepting cash from right wing organizations for faux privatization in education?
[Deleted]
What party does Jean Quan belong to? Did she call ows economic terrorists for shutting down the Port? What party does Bloomberg belong to? What party does Rahm Emanuel belong to? Why did the Democrats fuck Wisconsin? Why are the Democrats accepting cash from right wing organizations for faux privatization in education?
You recite the same shit over and over and over. How do you like them apples?
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We tried that. You aren't capable of handling that.
You would know if I was using that generator. There wouldn't be a doubt in your mind.
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I hope it says a lot! :D
[Deleted]
LOL. You know what kills it? It is the way your reasoning shows. Maybe that isn't the right wording. Your tactics don't really change. They simply morph.
I figured out, a long time ago, not to get angry. If I allow you to ruffle my feathers then I cannot watch your tactics.
It's why I used to use the insult generator. Well, that and the fact that all of the IDs were just insulting people in one line and moving on to following behind someone else.
[Deleted]
No..............no pain here. I find your idiocy pretty funny. I find your Jedi attempts pretty silly, too.
[Deleted]
Blow me. I'll grow one for you.
Guys get all the cool shit to say.
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Mmmm.........Thrassy?
Actually, Thrassy is usually more classy than this.
Still waiting for that list of dem progressives that we should all be voting for VQkag.
~Odin~
U just love twisting the knife doncha. U are in your way just as bad as he is in his way. Try and contribute some useful stuff rather then pursuing stupid fights.
No twisting the knife, but i have had it up to my ears with VQkag's disingenuous bullshit. He is here for one reason, and the success of this movement is not that reason. And I do indeed contribute many good posts here including the one early this morning on the devastation from Hurricane Sandy.
~Odin~
I am not gonna revisit this old BS with you - I am done with that conversation - I will leave you with this though:
you are just as much a stubborn individual as is VQ
I can accept that critique of being 'stubborn' DK, as you living amongst so many Scandinavians in MN would know that it is in our nature. It can't be easy for you in MN, and even i am empathetic to your plight. lol
Perhaps that hard-headedness is why the Nordic countries have such good governemnts today.
The big difference between VQkag, and me is that he lacks integrity, and i work hard to maintain it, knowing that it takes a never ending forward and retrospective look into one's own life to do so.
~Odin~
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" i do not tell people who to vote for" in the same statement " Replace pro 1% w/pro 99% progressives"
im pretty sure your telling us to vote for progessives
you make it too easy VQ. Go be a productive member of society and help your neighbors with sandy clean up
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I understand what you are trying to pass but you have made it open knowledge that you want Obama to win
we have a two party system so even if you wanted to be neutral which you're not, telling people to vote against conservatives also know as republicans and to vote for progressive also know as Democrats. This trick isn't fooling anyone so please stop.
the fact Girlfriday is arguing with you even though she is all for the same ideals shows me something that perhaps we do not want you to be here.
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i knew all of that so in reality just makes you look more of a jackass that you truly are
The only bully on this forum is you
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do you have any evidence im against progressives
I never said "women can't" anything That's you lying.
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Yeah you are you may be the biggest one i've met to date
Your tone says everything maybe also the way that people dont respect you anymore and what you called GirlFriday by saying she is "sad, angry bully who doesn't know how to make a point"
Are you saying women cant make valid points sir now that is very sexist
[Deleted]
no i pointed out the hypocrisy that you call speech
a president should lead by example
yes
I'm still sore that the governor's office never responded to my request for voting holidays
You keep changing your shit as needed VQkag. It might be time to fill us in on your protesting prowess again. lol Then you may regain some of your credibility, at least with those who don't know your sordid past on here.
The overwhelming majority of the 'agitating' you do is on here with altruistic OWS members. You agitate the shit out of us! The rest that you may do in the streets is just for 'cover.'
~Odin~
You might as well copy off that comment and send it off to you. You do little here but fight with VQ or campaign for people to do nothing - I never/rarely see you campaigning to support or promote street action/protest - yet that is what you always say that you are ALL ABOUT. Huh - funny.
Send it off. Despite my many trips to AK, i do more for this movement than you know. It is also important though to confront people who are here for reasons that have nothing to do with the success of this movement.
~Odin~
The 1% are not conservatives - virtually all, I'm quite certain, self identify as progressive democrats. And you are even worse because you are a Leftist wackjob searching for identity.
"Yeah dems should just shut the fuck up." Yes that's it exactly! Finally we agree VQkag. lol "People don't need to be educated", on how they too screwed us, since they already know.
~Odin~
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Gee, i thought i was a republicon. lol Considering the many good people that you have slapped those 'labels' on, and coming from you, that is meaningless. You lack integrity VQkag as another poster here said. I am anti dem and anti repub, and that is why I already voted Green.
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Both parties answer to corrupt corporate and banking interests, not ours.
If you like, I will post different variations of this repeatedly like i have done in the past. Perhaps then it will sink in.
~Odin~
It wont. It's here to disrupt. Im not sure what it is, but I dont like it.
I think we all have our suspicions as to why VQkag is here, and many of them go beyond him just being a partisan democrat. In any event, his kind of 'deceit' sadly is very simular to what we have grown accustomed to, and to a big degree it is why we are all here, or most of us anyway.
~Odin~
I agree! Both parties have been corrupted by the 1% plutocrats.
We must protest all pols to force them to answer to us.! It is up to use to take out govt back and make serve the 99%.
Until the new system emerges we must deal with the existing govt!
Peace & Solidarity
damn VQ you got to pick a fight with everybody?
Sorry. I didn't like the "dems should stfu" comment.
LOL.
The overreaction is clearly a reflection of unstable, immature, bullying.
Obvious she gets a sick pleasure out of the obscene personal attacks. I call that out & do not engage in it.
So I am unpopular. not the reason I come here.
I support your concept and will add a plug for "1984" I don't really like your implementation but I do support the many knives theory so I welcome it. The right has connected freedom to money so effectively that I fear we may never break the association. If I might offer feedback, I don’t believe anyone calling Obama Muslin will be influenced by discussions of fascism, but I could be wrong so it is good there are many thoughts on this.
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