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Forum Post: ALEC, Still Attacking Pensions

Posted 1 year ago on Oct. 23, 2013, 10:15 p.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"The right-wing American Legislative Exchange Council has jumped into the conservative effort to dismantle public pension systems in a big way, making it one of its top 2014 legislative priorities, a public pension advocacy group has warned.

The National Public Pension Coalition, which represents public sector employees, in a statement Monday, flagged ALEC’s entry into the public pension battle as a threat to the financial security of millions of state and local public employees."

Meanwhile the Tyrant of Detroit, is borrowing money to make good on his promise to destroy pensions there.

Borrowing from Barclay's to pay off BofA.

http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/10/detroit-emergency-manager-orr-finds-a-way-to-put-banks-before-retiree-pensions-with-yet-more-city-debt.html

196 Comments

196 Comments


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[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

In just a few days, more than 300,000 Americans have signed on to join Sen. Bernie Sanders, DFA and a diverse coalition of organizations to demand no "Grand Bargain" that cuts Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid benefits. Click here to add your name and join them.

Sen. Sanders needs your support now, as he prepares to serve on the new budget conference committee that will be negotiating a federal budget soon. Read his letter below, then join me in adding your name here. - Jim Dean, Chair, Democracy for America


They’re at it again.

Billionaires like the Koch Brothers, Pete Peterson, Stanley Druckenmiller and others are leading the charge to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

If they succeed, millions of senior citizens, working families, disabled veterans and children will suffer. We must not allow that to happen.

Today, the middle class is disappearing, real unemployment is extremely high, poverty is increasing and working families throughout the country are struggling to keep their heads above water economically. Meanwhile, the gap between the very rich and everyone else is growing wider and wider and the wealthiest people and the largest corporations are doing phenomenally well.

We must not balance the budget on the backs of working families, the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor.

As Vermont’s senator, I have the honor of serving on the Budget Conference Committee which will be negotiating a new federal budget over the next few months -- and where I am fearful that a deal could be struck to slash Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

As the founder of the Defending Social Security Caucus, please stand with me, our friends at Democracy for America and our coalition partners in demanding; “No grand bargain in exchange for cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.”

Let’s be clear. Despite right-wing rhetoric:

Social Security is not going broke. According to the Social Security Administration, Social Security has a surplus today of $2.8 trillion and can pay out every benefit owed to every eligible person for the next 20 years.

Social Security has not contributed to the deficit. Social Security is funded independently by FICA taxes which are paid by workers and their employers.

The so-called chained-CPI, which recalculates how COLA’s are formulated, is not a “modest tweak.” If the chained CPI went into effect today, a senior aged 65 would receive $658 a year less in Social Security benefits when he/she is 75, and $1,100 a year less at age 85. Further, the average disabled veteran would lose tens of thousands of dollars in benefits over his/her lifetime.

Please stand with me today and demand that Congress and the President oppose any grand bargain which cuts Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

When one out of four U.S. corporations pay nothing in federal income taxes; when Bush’s tax breaks for the rich remain in place for many wealthy Americans; when the U.S. spends almost as much as the rest of the world combined on defense, there are much fairer and economically sound ways to address the budget than cutting programs desperately needed by the most vulnerable people in our country.

Please stand with me and Democracy for America in protecting the future of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

Let’s go forward together. Thanks for your continued support.

Sincerely,

Bernie Sanders U.S. Senator

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Bernie knows.

Bernie gets it.

I signed it..................:)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The program is running right now - and has been very good so far. Hopefully they will run repeats after the live program ends. EVERYONE should watch this.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Getting everyone to watch it, will take removing all the teabagge(R) noise from the system.

Instead we get the restarting of Tom Delay. He didn't waste much time, did he?

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/31/time-constitution-based-bible.html

How come I can see Demint hiring him at Heritage sometime soon?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

What would the Bible call Delay? And all those prejudiced Bible thumpers?

Pharacies?

I only mean that they use the Bible for their own agenda - giving lip service to the tenants - there is no truth/belief in their actions.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The amazing thing, is that Delay has wasted no time in getting his bullshit heard all over again. As if he isn't a felon.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The Public has got to wake up and get involved.

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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And the continuing attack on pensions moves into the Detroit application for Bankruptcy. SURPRISE ??? ANYONE ??? This has been a tactic of business for decades - set up a pension fund and either not properly fund it from the start and/or inadequately fund it and then take it away from the employees in a bankruptcy action.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They'll borrow the money from Barklay's to underfund it all over again then 20yrs down the road, they can do blame the unions again.......It there's any left.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The thing is - most times pensions were never intended to pay out - they were intended to be a future slush-fund that gave tax credits while in operation.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (31173) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 hour ago The thing is - most times pensions were never intended to pay out - they were intended to be a future slush-fund that gave tax credits while in operation.

Well it becomes apparent that some-one does not like the truth pointed out ( expressed ).

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Other truths are being addressed.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/25/2835941/pension-funds-fossil-fuel-investments/

They aren't going to like their "business model" being questioned by anyone, let alone pension funds they are tying to destroy.

And Detroit, is not alone.

http://www.labornotes.org/2013/10/tea-party-alec-prescribe-cpr-kill-pensions

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's happening in almost every State, it didn't already happen in.

(Care to guess which ones those are?)

They have the funds to keep on, until they get they way, or we make it illegal..

Those against, tend to be on fixed incomes, so that making it illegal thing is the best bet.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I'm not familiar with the story.

How f* up is it?

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You can bet the (R)epelican'ts are still trying.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

"After Ken Lay it is clear someone has got to keep an eye on energy providers"

You have to understand that even though this is well known by you and me, most people have no idea what it is that Enron did.

They simply don't connect the rolling blackouts with Enron.............they blame the "treehuggers", like good little libe(R)tarian lapdogs.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It won't last, it seems they just found it cheaper to let him out, than fight to keep him in.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9146769

Where did he find the Money to fight that hard?

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I guess they should have taken away everything he owned, like do for us regular folks. He likely still has a mansion awaiting his return.

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[+] -4 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Honestly, the same way everything has gotten so fucked up. People stopped paying attention. The natural flow in a democracy.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Words from the "squid".

Read 'em, weep and know it's (R)epelican't/libe(R)tarian to the core.

http://www.alec.org/docs/RSPS_5th_Edition.pdf

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[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Attacking pensions is just one of the services ALEC provides, but it's one that provides a high ROI.

"That assertion has not been borne out by many of state states that have switched to defined contribution plans. “When states have adopted pension overhaul legislation, they have found that it came at a significant cost,” according to the National Public Pension Coalition statement. “Alaska and Michigan went down that road and saw their pension debts increase. West Virginia adopted a 401(k)-like plan for public employees in 1991, but reversed course in 2006 after a report found that public employees had such low incomes in retirement that they were eligible for means-tested public programs, driving up costs to the state.”

Also, the Plot Against Pensions report notes that in Rhode Island, which Arnold and ALEC hold up as their model for how the system should be remade, costs were driven up so much by fees to Wall Street money managers that even the business-friendly Forbes magazine called it “just a blatant Wall Street gorging.”

Even Forbes called it "gouging", and you know that's got to be profitable.

So give generously to the charity of ALEC.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/19556-alec-and-tiaa-cref-join-the-assault-on-public-pensions

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[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Unions agreeing to vote en masse for one party is repulsive to me. Unions having their vote bought by promises of unrealistic pension wages thirty years into the future in exchange for the union's vote in tomorrow's election should be repugnant to many, I would hope.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

WOW!!!!

The same lies all over again.

The same lies I've been dealing with for over 2 years on the forum.

I'm not going to deal with this bullshit again.

I will just say.

STOP LYING!!!!!!

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[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

But this stuff happens, so how can it be a lie? When unions tell their members to vote for only one party, and it is done after negotiating the best promises and guarantees they can get from a party, how can you then call that a lie?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

OK, you need to look up the term bullshit, and get an intimate understanding thereof.

It's the device you are using here.

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[+] -4 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Workers who incur life changing injuries because of their work should not have cuts, I think most people would agree with that.

But what about the pension rules that were abused? How about working massive overtime for one year than having that one year be used to determine pension wages? Is that fair? If a worker makes 50,000, but one year works massive overtime and makes 90,000, should their entire pension be based on that 90,000 dollar year? I'm not saying that happens everywhere, but it does happen.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Where does that happen? I'm going to need to see some proof. Precise cases. Not Right Wing gobbledy gook shit.

[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

It's called pension spiking. It was most definitely prevalent in California among police and firefighters groups and possibly other's as well. However, I don't condemn that it went on because I respect that police officers and fire fighters may either not live as long because of their occupation or develop work related physical or stressful conditions. But to say that pension spiking does not occur simply defeats having an intelligent discussion about the issue.

This is an article that appeared in Minnesota. http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_22148781/public-pension-spiking-no-ones-monitoring-overtime-spiking

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

"It's unknown how many public employees are spiking their pensions by working huge amounts of overtime. "

If it's "unknown", then why even bring it up??

Who scheduled the overtime????

[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Based on a 20 year span, a worker only has to spike one year to dramatically increase their pension. So every year 5% of the work force spikes their over time, over a 20 year time span, that could affect a huge percentage of the work force.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

So, now five percent of the work force spikes their over time every year.

[+] -5 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

That's all it would take for the entire pension system to be spiked over a 20 year span, scary, no?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You have not taken into account hiring freezes. This is just another attack on the unions.

[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

hiring freezes are a direct result of the pensions being paid out right now.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

That is a lie.

[-] 0 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

lol, it is not. In an effort to acknowledge existing payroll obligations, the terms and conditions of new city and state union hires are being sacrificed.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

lol, it is a lie.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

One more time.

Who scheduled the overtime?

Who understaffed??

If you don't know.

You don't know anything about this at all.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Right. NYC firefighters and cops have been doing this for years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/business/economy/21pension.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"According to pension data collected by The New York Times from the city and state, about 3,700 retired public workers in New York are now getting pensions of more than $100,000 a year, exempt from state and local taxes."

[-] 2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Replying here:

I agree about the profits, but its hard to imagine a situation where the people are encouraged to innovate and create, and not have the desire for more profits involved.

The "greed" aspect is what concerns me, and it might be more of a cultural thing than an economic thing.

We all agree the multinationals are the worst with this, the ones making the decisions dont even know their employees. Another example of break up and decentralize being a good solution?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Well, I think if you start looking at creating smaller companies and companies that are employee owned and things like that, you start to get away from "capitalism" as an economic system. Capitalism is all about free markets and how to extract the most profit in whatever way necessary. So, what I think we need today is a new system that encapsulates some capitalistic tendencies but that is much more workable in today's global and technical world. We need our economists to start being more innovative, because, in truth, a new system will arise on it's own but it will be a painful process for the masses of people around the globe.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Not you too???

Who scheduled the overtime???

In the big 3 it has to offered to those with the lowest hours worked.

Why are you complaining about no State taxes on retiree benefits??

That's the way it should be.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

No, not the State taxes, that is not the issue. The issue is the padding of pensions on the backs of taxpayers. It's a known fact in NYC that the retiring guy gets the most overtime. They pad the overtime of the people retiring. It's been going on for years. I personally know people who benefited from that.

This kind of manipulation and exploitation, I believe, has added to the cutting of defined pension plans which is a travesty.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Who schedules the overtime??

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

I would imagine the supervisors who are perhaps union members as well. I've never worked as a firefighter or cop so I couldn't tell you, but I've lived next door to and had friends who benefited from this. It's a fact. It's not really such a big deal that I should be called the things I'm being called by another poster. It's just a fact about NYC pensions. Do you think it's fair to NYC teachers who can't work overtime because teachers don't work overtime. Their pensions never get padded and they always end up with smaller pensions than cops and firefighters in NY. It's been this way for years.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Then it's the supervisors that are to blame for this alleged travesty, not the hourly personnel.

That and those that adamantly refuse to hire the proper amount of personnel in the first place.

I've been hollered at around here before for the simple yet very true statement that says.

For every two people working 12 hours, one person is completely out of a job, and all it's benefits.

Overtime is very much a thing management likes to do for that very reason.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

I totally agree with you about overtime but it's a wink wink situation that the younger guys will give their overtime hours to the guy who is retiring that year, or at least some of their hours, so the retiring guy's pay is big and fat in his final year. Overtime is crap. I totally agree.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

This is why they always under pay in the first place.

Overtime.

At any rate, bitching about the hourly guy taking advantage of the contract, is not to be blamed as he is being blamed here. It's not his fault.

None of us here have any idea what was said to allow this in the contract in the first place.

What this line of reasoning is, is another blatant attack on the working stiff.

To wit.

Public employees.

I'm sure it's a similar argument given in every city that's EVER reduced pension benefits.

It's an argument similar to the one given against teachers in Wisconsin, Jersey, Michigan, and every other State the Koch's want to buy.

Just be aware of that.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

In response to your comment below. Every single worker in this country should have a decent pension whether in a union or not. All workers matter to me. I'm pro-union, everyone should have a union if they want one, but why have wages declined over the past 40 years? Why have benefits been eroded? Why are workers' rights barely existent anymore? Surely we can't blame unions, but can we really claim that the labor movement of the past 40 years has been successful? We need a revamping of the labor movement to include all workers. And, of course, golden parachutes and the extraction of wealth and exploitation by the 1% is abominable. Saying that pension exploitation by a few workers in no way says that CEO pay and bozos getting millions of dollars a year is okay. Where would you get that idea that I was saying that?

And, you didn't address the names I was called on the open forum yesterday. Profanity, bullying, intimidation and the maligning of character through ad hominem attacks have no place here.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What pension "exploitation?

Why use that term?

GFs been getting harassed lately. Cut her a little slack, and I did block the most egregious post..

Oh? And that guy your agreeing with??

He's all about anti-union.

It's not even new stuff. I will not be nice to him, anymore.

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Shooz, all I did was state a fact. I come from a long line of NYC teachers in my family who always resented the way firefighters and cops took advantage of their pension system. I'm not blaming the cops and the firefighters, but, hey, don't all workers matter? Don't the workers of the entire City of NY matter who pay taxes to pay for such exploitation? I stated a fact and have been maligned on the forum, called a Koch whore and a cunt. I just don't get it. All workers matter to me. Every single one of them. I don't like and will not condone exploitation of any kind.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

tax payer rationalizer

those that have money pay the taxes

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yeah, the pluto's LOVE getting the public workers to face off over pension jealousy.

Keep's 'em agitated for when they pull a Wisconsin on 'em.

Helps 'em get away with it.

and this current line of reasoning plays right into it.

This place was full of comments like this in the early days.

It really is a "right wing" plutocratic play.

One that I reject out of hand, and question intensely. Motive matters.

Me?

I'm all for everyone who puts in the 20-30 years or so to get a kick ass pension.

It's the golden parachutes...........I HATE, and no one wants to talk about that.

Bitching about some poor louts pension benefits, when some bozo's getting millions a year. Often for bankrupting a company and stealing it's pensions.

I gotta keep my priorities straight.

[+] -4 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

shooz, you don't seem to understand that city and state jobs and all of their guarantees have catapulted themselves much higher than the average "working stiff".

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Oh, yes I understand very well.

Exactly, in fact.

You endorse lowering the retirement bar by any means necessary.

Especially........defined pension plans.

You've made yourself quite clear.

[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Girl Friday (above), I think a big part of the problem is the "cut the crap, what's the conclusion" meme. Nobody should know what the solution is until a thorough discussion is made regarding all the parameters.

I do not think that there should just be a takeaway of pension benefits unless some type of barter is put in place that replaces some pension with other tangible resources.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Why don't we just skip the crap and get to where all this shyte is headed.

U jelly.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yawn..............again with the Minnie Mouse shit. So, what you dipshits want is to push for a repeal of the “Triborough Amendment”.

Gee, your words sound exactly like they walked off of the Goldwater Report. Can you explain...? Oh, don't fucking bother Koch whore. http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/goldwater-report.pdf

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

You are so lovely.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You're such a lyin' conniving douche.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

You speak of yourself.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Nope, just you.

“Triborough Amendment”.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

I'm not too fond of you either, but if you notice I have enough class to avoid you. Please try to do the same and just avoid me if you see my posts. And, I don't lie about a single thing so don't know what the hell you are talking about. You better think before you post.

[-] -3 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

There's too much decent conversation going on, someone must have gotten alerted to sign in with the GF handle and disrupt.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You don't have any class. You're a fucking puppet. A fucking piece of shit puppet. Fuck. Now. Off.

[-] -2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Attention Moderator.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/alec-still-attacking-pensions/#comment-1010786

Seems to me that comment should be removed.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Done!

Now will you follow the money in N. Carolina??

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[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You're a multiple ID right wing cockroach.

[+] -5 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

No state taxes on retiree benefits is like adding another 25% to 35% to the actual pension income.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

So??

[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

So the pension figures are actually being misrepresented.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Everything you've said and suggested so far is exactly a misrepresentation.

The real question is, why do hate the retired?

What do you have against defined pension plans?

[-] -1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

shooz, I just don't see much difference between you and a crazy neo-con.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I understand.

That's because you don't see very well.

Believe me, I am in no way shape or form.....you.

Are you the same guy I had this discussion with 2 years ago?

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[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Of course they have. Can you provide specifics? Or is this another Minnie Mouse episode?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Yes, I just added a link. Quit being so nasty all the time. It's really boring.

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[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Please try to control yourself. You don't get to any point. You miss the point wholeheartedly but that's your problem.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (4147) 1 year ago

You have my public support on the forum 'bw'.

Nevermind the stooges here.

A 'beautifulworld' is coming. Too much evil has been exposed for a shift to be stopped now. People want to help each other.

Solidarity

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Thanks, Renneye. You should post more often. The forum needs you. We have too many "revolutionaries" fighting for the status quo here, but you already know that, lol.

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[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

What if it was? I see people making digs all the time here.

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[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Please grow the fuck up. Your job is to sit and pat your cohorts on their furry little backs. You are a pathetic scum sucking Minnie Mouse piece of shit that occasionally posts some lovepeaceandchickengrease drivel.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

Who do you think you are talking to people the way you do?

[+] -4 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Bots. A different personality per. Critical thinking outside of the bot-to-bot conversation inevitably leads to the default- insult and change subject!

Gotta love the internet!

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Pay attention. Do you see this? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/03/accused-lax-shooter-unable-to-answer-questions-in-fbi-investigation/

This is why you are a slime ball. You run around the internet as a two dollar whore and promote conspiracy theories. You support shit like Alex Jones. You and Chris. And instead of taking responsibility for the shit you spew, you defend it with everything that you have and then in a tick like manner attempt to embed yourself with lies or how pro people you are. How proud you must feel.

You are a sociopath.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

What the fuck? You just brought me an article that said a whole lot of I don't know, I don't have any idea and we can't know. And then a blurb on it can be tough controlling that due to unions. I'm going to need specifics. Otherwise, you don't even come close to an intelligent conversation.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Are you a mod or just mad ?! Have you dispensed with all modicum of civility if not decorum on the forum - if not in your personal life ?!! Are you drunk or on drugs or just a touch possessed GF lol ?!!!

Your ''Removed'' comment above should have stayed. By removing it, you are being protected. Your language and Dem shilling - we can all handle in our own way but you get away with way more shit here, than anyone else. You need to find a new schtick and stop trying to alienate people from here.

You should take stock and reflect but I'm not in the mood to write you another poem .... & that entire ZD thread was ''404 Removed'' to protect you too, come to think of it. Thought I'd join the party here now ;-) & re. ''intelligent conversation'' - here go read these, stop being boring and try to cool off, if you can, lol.

et temet nosce ...

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Hey!

I removed it as per hchc's request. Of course he still couldn't do the research we agreed upon in recompense, but at least he sort of tried.

It's really kind of sad though, that you don't notice the LARGE amount of conce(R)vative shilling going on around here, or at least unnoticed enough for you to never comment on it.

Is that an English thing?.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

You need ''recompense'' and requesting in order to mod GF, do you ?!!! Interesting !! What haven't I 'noticed' and ''never'' commented on again and why not try the links or is that 'an American thing' ?!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You haven't noticed that chch (sic) (LOL, dyslexia!! yay! ) and I don't see eye to eye?

That guy ownes me a lot of recompense.

Tons of it!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Not seeing eye to eye with hc has what to do with 'modding' GF again ?!!! Whatever and why he ''ownes'' you, perhaps you should reflect on your sub-concious, semi-Freudian typo !! Maybe you would gain from ceasing being so antagonistic, attritional and reactive with hc & instead, go find out what really ails GF !

I have points of agreement with hchc, GF & you and probably differences as well but I mostly prefer to focus on and take heart from - the common denominators. On the forum, we all go with the '99% / 1%' paradigm tho' of course the 1% are mostly lackeys for The 0.01% Predatory Parasite Class but sadly when it comes to Plutocrats controlling politics in the U$A - ''Corporate America knows both parties are up for sale'' :

''American politics has been inexorably lurching to the right not only because of the extremism of the Tea Party, but also because of a lack of Tea Party-like cohesion, organization and energy on the left. There are, of course, many factors that contribute to that sad reality including a successful war on the labor movement; a campaign finance system that makes conservative oligarchs even more powerful than they already are; and a mediasphere that ignores principles and tells liberals everything must be seen exclusively in partisan red-versus-blue terms. One factor, though, stands out for how it so destructively shapes the assumptions that define our political discourse. That factor can be called “liberal washing.”

If it's a little too close to the bone then we don't have to discuss the contents if you don't like to but I really do think that you will be interested in and gain from, closely reading the linked article above.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

No slip, dyslexia.

Hchc has motives I completely disagree with, plus he was, or perhaps still is among the soap opera of the banned.

So yeah, as a poster that's been banned multiple times and posted links from the places he has, he owes us all. I'm among those that feel he's phoney in more ways than one.

[-] 9 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Ok, ''Dyslexia'' gets you a pass but does the same apply to GF's Tourettes Toilet Mouth ?!!! So just how many folk do we wish to be bullied and intimidated off this forum by her B-S ?!! No - not us die hards but more sensitive, compassionate folk like 'MiddleAged' and many others ?!

Furthermore, hchc stands or falls by what he says, like us all but wtf is all the banning achieving ? Odin, gnomunny et al ... remember them ? I considered them friends for whom I'd stand a beer, a chaser AND a slice of pizza but where are those dedicated Occupiers now ?

This is still an active face of Occupy on t'inter-web, shooz - pls don't let 'Dem Attack Dogs' degrade this place any more than already done. I can do shouty and sweary (ask Trashy) but all day and everyday is just totally fkn boring and depressing, maan :-(

pax et lux, nunc et semper ...

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

here's what's not going to happen.

I'm not going to allow a thread about the workingman, to become yet another parlour room for the soap opera of the banned.

They are still here and if I have to I'll be banning a bunch of folks, and GF will probably NOT be one of them.

She has always been and still is one of their first and foremost targets....

So yeah, sometimes she gets a bit touchy. Perhaps if you came to help her sometimes when she's under attack, you would get a better feel for what's going on with her.

Like me, after 2+ years of attacks by the right wing, ( a wing as a Briton, you are ill equipped to understand), our tempers sometimes grow more than a little short.

I apologize if she offended you, but I will not apologize for my attacks on what is obviously right wing attacks on the workingman and his defined pension.

This ain't new stuff.

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[-] 2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Stop turning a blind eye then to someone calling BW a cunt and a bitch.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

ad hominem ?

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Nope.

Two very different things.

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[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Waiting...................

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

For what, nutjob ?! 'Godot' ?!! Swivel on your own words or hang on your own petard but consider your cheeks - all four, slapped !!! Re. http://occupywallst.org/forum/alec-still-attacking-pensions/#comment-1010812 projection much ? And get this - any reply to me, gets a link, probably from your beloved ICH !

temet nosce ...

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Pfft. Consider my foot up your ass for your shameless mendacity.

You actually found it necessary to lie about where you were from. You are a coward. A deceitful coward. Nothing more and nothing less.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Penis Envy - THAT's your problem !!! Stop flirting and fantasising about my arse !! So where am I from ?!

verum ex absurdo et multum in parvo ...

[-] 0 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Your article below ignores that we may not be in capitalism but in corporate-ism.

When I posted it without the hyphen, it was removed?

PLEASE tell me that this isnt a banned word on the forum!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22254) 1 year ago

The thing about capitalism, hchc, is that it, ultimately, is corporate-ism because it has the exploitation of profit at it's core.

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Hmmmm, like him or not, Mr. Ford hasn't a clue.

That's why I pass on REAL information about the area.

If you don't want to learn?

There's not much I can do about that, but Mr. Ford isn't going to teach you a thing....and name dropping PK will get you nowhere.

At this point, I'm going to tell you to take any further issue with moderation to jart.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

After everything I've posted about Detroit and Michigan, please don't insult me by posting BS from Mr. Ford, as though it legitimizes anything at all..

It doesn't.

Like Mr. West, he is mostly a phony.

http://wattree.blogspot.com/2013/07/beneath-spin-eric-l.html

I've posted some timely good news about the area as well, how about Mr. Ford?

Nope.

Here's a bit now.

http://www.freep.com/article/20131105/COL46/311050031/residents-squatters-Goldengate-Street-State-Fair-neighborhood

Now as per the rest of the story?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/lawyers-hedge-funds-and-consultants-win-250-millio/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/detroit-turning-off-the-power/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/michigan-the-talons-of-tyranny-tighten/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/michigan-the-talons-of-tyranny-tighten/

That one even has the obligatory dig at Detroit as per Kilpatrick and guess who posted it that time?

Your soap opera friend.....hchc. ( so don't wonder why I know him for a fraud).

http://occupywallst.org/forum/banks-ripping-off-detroit-worse-than-kwame-ever-im/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/art-vs-austerity-who-wins/

You didn't have much to say in any of them, so please don't shove Mr. Ford in my face.

What you don't see, is the incredible amount of BS that trolls posted, since most of them are closet racists, they always come out for Detroit.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Like erstwhile and well liked poster, 'Peter Kropotkin', I too happen to like Glen Ford and appended the article because I liked it - NOT to insult you or to request 'legitimacy', tch !!! There's a difference between 'mod' and 'editor' btw !! I do realise that Michigan may be close to both home and bone - but all I can do is post what speaks to me, so no need to take it so personally and I haven't time, energy or head-space to go through all your links or to add further script a soap opera that I'm not in (I hope) ! More relevantly :

''Most of the poverty in the United States is artificially manufactured. It is poverty created in the pursuit of “free market ideals,” expressed in recent times by the imposition of neoliberal economic policies – the sort of policies that cut taxes on the wealthy, do away with fiscal and other business regulations, undermine the social safety net and erode middle-class stability – all while singing the praises of self-reliance and individual responsibility. As a result we have done very well in making the rich richer and the poor both poorer and more numerous.''

ad iudicium ...

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[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Brixton?

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I do have many sweet and strange memories of 'Squatlife in Brixton' and have alluded to it here once or twice so well remembered shooz. I lived there in South London for a few years and have lots of fond and idiosyncratic memories but am a li'l too old for that life now, so am elsewhere these days.

From vibrant but sadly rapidly gentrifying Brixton to Detroit - as per your OP, with this very interesting and hard hitting piece with a bonus Malcolm X video on this link :

''The drama unfolds in bankruptcy court, a venue whose rules were written almost entirely by the financial capitalist class. By virtue of the Emergency Manager law, Detroit is represented in court by its nemesis, Kevyn Orr – which is like imposing Newt Gingrich as chief counsel for the NAACP. (The Detroit NAACP seeks to halt the proceedings on voting rights grounds.) Orr’s office is referred to as “the city” in both legal terms and by idiot corporate media, who confuse the public by reporting, as did Detroit PBS correspondent Christy McDonald, this week, that the issue is “whether the city can go ahead with its bankruptcy” process. In fact, hardly an elected official or candidate exists that openly supports bankruptcy, especially under Kevyn Orr’s terms (Detroit holds a meaningless mayoral and council election, next week).

''Orr may be the most hated man in Detroit – a fact that would be noted by every media outlet in the nation, if the metropolis were largely white. But the Detroit model for democracy’s demolition is depicted as a white supremacist morality play, in which corruption and incompetence are the inevitable fruits of Black majority rule, which must be extirpated by any means necessary. White Americans, in general, can be distracted by the slightest hint of ghetto graffiti from seeing their own futures written on the wall.''

WTFU America !!! Resistance Is Fertile !! And frankly WTF is the option ?!

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It figures that you would attempt to use a theory that stems from a coke head. That is par for course. Try again.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Perpetual and ultimately irrelevant attrition is boring, coarse, unproductive and ultimately self-defeating and only 'Koch Heads' & ''Teathuglicans'' gain. Get back with the program and tho' you're not obliged to reply or comment ('cause let's face it, we're not really getting on, lol) - do try to read this piece, which I recommend and append for the standing record here :

''Any organized opposition strong enough to make corporations and the rich pay for capitalism's crises would likely also question capitalism itself. Emerging from nearly six years of crisis, the question "can't we do better than capitalism?" pushes forward, demanding discussion, debate, and democratic decision.''

e tenebris, lux ...

[+] -4 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (14797) 0 minutes ago

Perpetual and ultimately irrelevant attrition is boring, coarse, unproductive and ultimately self-defeating and only 'Koch Heads' & ''Teathuglicans'' gain. Get back with the program and tho' you're not obliged to reply or comment ('cause let's face it - we're not getting on) read this piece, which I append and recommend for the standing record here :

''The Great Austerity Shell Game : Here's How the Capitalist Scam Works'', by Prof. R. D. Wolff : <http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/04/great-austerity-shell-game> .

''Any organized opposition strong enough to make corporations and the rich pay for capitalism's crises would likely also question capitalism itself. Emerging from nearly six years of crisis, the question "can't we do better than capitalism?" pushes forward, demanding discussion, debate, and democratic decision.''

fiat lux ... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Ah, more shyte. Get back to me when you have managed to grasp the Taylor Act.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

So an olive branch offered as a fig leaf gets turned into a cudgel as per your incorrigibly fractious nature, huh ? Well, although I could look it up and pretend to know about it, the truth is I don't know squat about ''The Taylor Act'' - 'cause (believe it or not, lol) - I don't actually live in The U$A. If you were a reasonable, collegiate and pleasant person - you'd put up links, inform and explain but being who and how you are .. you don't. You're a bit of an asshat but if the cap fits - wear it with pride.

temet nosce ...

[+] -7 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (14797) 16 minutes ago

So an olive branch offered as a fig leaf gets turned into a cudgel as per your incorrigibly fractious nature, huh ? Well, although I could look it up and pretend to know about it, the truth is I don't know squat about ''The Taylor Act'' - 'cause (believe it or not, lol) - I don't actually live in The U$A. If you were a reasonable, collegiate and pleasant person - you'd put up links, inform and explain but being who and how you are .. you don't. You're a bit of an asshat but if the cap fits - wear it with pride.

& fyi : <http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36748.htm> .

temet nosce ...


Pffttt..............

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

oo|o_ = Left Hand Bird ;-)

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Come on out, asshole.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Here, =========##~~' - & toke. Does that help you any ?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36682.htm !

sic transit gloria mundi ...

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Still no reflecting on the Taylor Act. Not surprised.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Wrong answer, motherfuicker. Let's skip the preliminary bullshit. You pathetic lying asswipe,. I am not going to waste time dicking around with you. You want to act like a jack off then let's go.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Instant response ; no reflection - TCH !!! Are you in need of attention or something ?!! Sorry, but I'm very much spoken for but perhaps you should try to find a BoyTurdsday (sic) ! Try the links and do grow up. You can't help your Tourette's or toilet mouth maybe but u don't have to be 'BitchEveryday', GirlFriday.

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Sorry, Pal. You should have reflected more on the Taylor Act but, you didn't. So, get back to me when you manage to do that. Otherwise, you can spend the rest of your time begging someone else to pull your head out of your fat ass. Or go change IDs before you fucking destroy this one,.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Interesting 'transference and projection' there in the final two sentences. So, just how ''fat'' is your arse and how many IDs do you really have ?!!! LOL !! You never got over me implying that you were possibly a ''conservative liberal'' in PM, did you ?! Ho hum, head up your bum and perpetually glum - but in sum :

''Until liberal washing becomes anathema to more of the genuine left, there is little chance of combating today’s plutocratic politics. It is a politics that manufactures the parameters of economic debates so that only corporate-friendly outcomes are possible. It is a politics that relies as much on money and votes as on permissive semiotics — the kind that permits labels like “liberal,” “progressive” and “left” to include those who shill for the right. Only when those labels start meaning something and liberal washing is defanged can we hope to get, in the words of Gourevitch, “something more than the economically stagnant, politically oppressive” culture we’re currently stuck with.''

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You mean the PM where you literally danced around pretending that it was AOK that you were lying? That PM? I'm not impressed. You're nothing more than a fucking multiple ID asswipe.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I've been here long enough not to need other IDs but your constant reference to that indicates a paranoid obsession & potentially schizoid mind set - so are the voices getting too much for you again, GF ?!!! We seem to have very different interpretations of our previous & most probably last ever PM exchange which you instigated about hchc, tho' if you feel confident about what you say then feel free to copy it here but I'll spare you that embarrassment right now !! Contrary to popular demands, I'll keep it more prosaic with you but for your own good, you should reflect honestly on how and why you're so alienated / alienating !

I'm not one to miss the opportunity to add a hopefully relevant link, so d'you think that meeting someone like you, could also be a 'reason # 9' here - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36728.htm ?

gnothi seauton ...

[-] 1 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

If someone goes around screaming they were robbed, no one accuses them of robbing the other guy.

Chances are that bot you are arguing with has more socks than anyone!! And none of them match! ha.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

A good point and well made but re The 99% Struggle, which most of us engage in and fyi, please see : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36720.htm - from which : ''Similar to green washing or so-called “gay washing”/“rainbow washing,” liberal washing is all about wrapping corporate America’s agenda in the veneer of fight-for-the-little-guy progressivism, thus portraying plutocrats’ radical rip-off schemes as ideologically moderate efforts to rescue the proles.'' I recommend the short article to u.

Sadly, 'denialism about the duopoly' runs deep around here and the less said about 'non-matching sock-bots' the better, lol. Stay strong for The 99%.

consilio et animis ...

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Pfffttt..........put a sock in it. Oh, wait, you already have.

[+] -4 points by MrTWillPityAFool (9) from Cedar Falls, IA 1 year ago

Fribot 3000 malfunction! Fribot 3000 malfunction! Malfunction! Malfunction!

http://rlv.zcache.com/robot_head_broken_circuit_technical_difficulties_sticker-r1229b529c50340b9ae4708b4f2c4b14f_v9waf_8byvr_512.jpg

Keep it up. Maybe he'll write another poem about you.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

MrTWillPityAFool

No Profile Information Private Messages

Information

From Cedar Falls, IA Joined Nov. 4, 2013

[+] -4 points by MrTWillPityAFool (9) from Cedar Falls, IA 1 year ago

OMG. You figured it out. What a great little detective you are. Pat pat pat

Problem is you start shit, get your ass kicked, then get the person banned, so,we have to,make new id's

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Butt hurt about what? Dude you are so fucking desperate and you don't have dick. But, I want to point something out to you real quick, I don't get you banned. You get yourself banned. You do that because you are anti people.

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[-] -2 points by MrTWillPityAFool (9) from Cedar Falls, IA 1 year ago

Hurry up. My hot pockets are almost done

[-] -3 points by MrTWillPityAFool (9) from Cedar Falls, IA 1 year ago

Do you know what real quick even means?

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It sucks when you have to face reality doesn't it? You don't have any answers for the shit you spew, do you? Just the same right wing rhetoric as usual.

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Despite the fact that I would eventually have got around to replying to you, you've got my attention now. I'll reply next to you there on hc's thread but I'll lay something down here, to set the scene for you & all :

''It is useful to contrast the American response to Nabila Rehman with that of Malala Yousafzai, a young girl who was nearly assassinated by the Pakistani Taliban. While Malala was feted by Western media figures, politicians and civic leaders for her heroism, Nabila has become simply another one of the millions of nameless, faceless people who have had their lives destroyed over the past decade of American wars. The reason for this glaring discrepancy is obvious. Since Malala was a victim of the Taliban, she, despite her protestations, was seen as a potential tool of political propaganda to be utilized by war advocates. She could be used as the human face of their effort, a symbol of the purported decency of their cause, the type of little girl on behalf of whom the United States and its allies can say they have been unleashing such incredible bloodshed. Tellingly, many of those who took up her name and image as a symbol of the justness of American military action in the Muslim world did not even care enough to listen to her own words or feelings about the subject. As described by the Washington Post's Max Fisher :

  • ''Western fawning over Malala has become less about her efforts to improve conditions for girls in Pakistan, or certainly about the struggles of millions of girls in Pakistan, and more about our own desire to make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy with a celebrity and an easy message. It's a way of letting ourselves off the hook, convincing ourselves that it's simple matter of good guys vs bad guys, that we're on the right side and that everything is okay.''

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[EDIT : For the record, here's the link to my reply : http://occupywallst.org/forum/another-afghanistan-disaster/#comment-1011006 on hchc's thread, where you reveal much more about your so called 'Zen']

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

It does takes effort to keep up appearances - even IF some of us occasionally lose our shape - tho' some more than others ;-) - so I agree, chuckle softly and slide this your way too :

''Is our relentless quest for economic growth killing the planet? Climate scientists have seen the data – and they are coming to some incendiary conclusions.''

respice, adspice, prospice ...

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I'm not much for response without content

like repeat yourself because you make no sense

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You're not much for anything, dirtbag.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

Nope

I should be left to die like my friends

Pink Floyd The Wall Mother

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Actually, without unequivocal proof, what you are saying is 100% bullshit.

Perhaps you would better serve justice by describing "golden parachutes".

If you continue your attacks on working stiffs, this will not go well.

[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

As I stated above in response to girlfriday, it's called pension spiking in case you want to do your own research on it. Here is an article about pension spiking that was posted in Minnesota. http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_22148781/public-pension-spiking-no-ones-monitoring-overtime-spiking

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Really?

Who scheduled the overtime in the first place, and or failed to hire enough personnel???

How does it compare to "golden parachutes"?

[-] -1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

You said I made up pension spiking. I assume now the discussion has shifted away from accusing me of being a liar to an actual discussion of why pension spiking occurs.

Keep in mind if a city worker works 20 years, but then has one year where they spiked their pay with a ton of overtime, in some states that one year is used to set pension levels. So one huge year out of 20 does not necessarily mean not enough people were hired.

Instead of dispersing overtime in a such a manner that that one huge year did not occur, pension spiking became an incentive because it meant a higher retirement pension.

I think it is important to realize that pension philosophy was never discussed in an earnest manner in the past.

Think of it as watching the Jerry Springer show or some other show like that in which Jerry Springer tries to smooth over a rift between a couple who only coupled in the first place because they liked each other's asses.

If pension philosophy was never deeply discussed and analyzed in the first place, having a knock down dragout argument over it now just means we fall into the trap set by those who came before and didn't have everyone's interest at heart.

Was it ok to use pension fund money from the 80s and 90s to invest in overseas's stock funds knowing one day those funds would return in the form of inexpensively made and possibly labor violation created products?

Was it ok to get overinflated pension investment profits knowing that that level of profit would not last and would help create huge shortages 10 or 15 years later?

Is it ok now that cities possibly favor the sales tax sales generated by imported overseas products versus the saving local jobs losses that result from severely low cost imported products?

Shouldn't pension fund investment money have been mostly reinvested in the U.S. rather than overseas?

I'm just throwing out questions that never get asked by our own polarized media.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Where's you comment on "golden parachutes"???

Where's your answer on who scheduled the overtime??

Why are you sounding like Limbaugh?

Why are flipping and flopping all over the map?

[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I'm not for golden parachutes either unless it actually prevents hostile takeovers from occurring. Overtime is probably scheduled by the lead commanders and so forth.

I listen to Limbaugh about 3 times a year while in the car, not for very long. Not sure how you actually advanced the discussion with your questions and accusations.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Where's your thread on that??

Those golden parachutes??

Why are you attacking the working stiff??

Or is this just an attack on public employees?

One that will ultimately be in the "taxes" part of the argument??

Just like Limbaugh.

So I guess he's pretty effective, if you only listen 3x's a year.

I was looking for you to give the ratio between the working stiffs pension and those golden parachutes.

I was under the perception that you thoroughly researched this sort thing.

Overly generous pensions.

[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

It comes down to percentages. If pensions increase to a certain percentage of the yearly operating budget of a state, then corrections need to be made.

So what is that percentage?

Nobody seems to have the guts to start stating numbers. I assume once pension obligations reach more than 20% of a states budget, they will just continue to spiral out of control.

Reduced state and city services can lead to an erosion of property value and property tax revenue, which continues the state budget downward death spiral.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What's this about taxes???

WTF????

Are you a teabagge(R)???

Motherfuckers raised my taxes.

Now answer the questions I actually asked!!!

You just managed to piss me off.

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[-] 0 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

You sound pissed off in almost every post you make.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Why are you pushing the teabagge(R) line of anti-union clap trap?

[-] -2 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

One would think one single vote for shipping jobs out of the country would be enough to bail on a party if worker's are the priority.

But hey, I guess in our bullshit "lesser of two evils" duopoly nightmare representative demockery, you take what you can get.

Disappointing. Pathetic. And horribly corrupt.

[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Most definitely confusing. I guess the union head's main priority is to do what is best for the union members already on board. Walmarts are probably good for the present day union members because it creates a sales tax revenue base for the city and state even if overall walmarts are bad for the U.S. economy.

[-] -3 points by HCHC4 (-28) 1 year ago

Forrespect.org is doing some impressive stuff against Walmart, pretty active group you might enjoy checking it out.

[-] -3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Will check it out.

[+] -4 points by drinkbrondo (-71) 1 year ago

Yea...how dare they try to reign in unsustainable pensions, forced on governments by unions.... Where you can retire at 52...and make 80% of your salary FOR FUCKING LIFE...and never work again. What is the problem here?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Unions don't make a salary. That's what you do.

So I take your firmly against contracts then?

Who makes 80% anyway? Wallstreet? Various parts of management??

For that kind of money, we should make them pee in a cup once a month or so..........with a cop watching, to make sure they don't cheat.

It's a habit with them after all.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

That it was the original agreement and that the people working have paid into the pensions whereas the legislatures did not pay in as agreed and now don't wanna. Problem?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Damn straight - they never planed that the pension program would be successful - just that it would be a tax free slush fund - or pensions would never have been allowed to be claimed as a business asset - and so not have been pilfered in a Bankruptcy.

[+] -4 points by drinkbrondo (-71) 1 year ago

Unsustainable...you fucking liberals know that word all too well. Hard choices bitch...when the money runs out. What do YOU do when money gets low? . That's what real people do. Liberals just say "raise taxes". Fuck you..we're done supporting union slackers for life.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Just for confirmation, you refuse to honor contracts? Except for the one that you signed to spin shit?

[+] -5 points by drinkbrondo (-71) 1 year ago

When the cupboards bare bitch.... What part of broke don't liberals ever understand. There is this disconnect in economics. as in..."who cares...keep borrowing more money". And while you're at it...keep handing out more free stuff. The money fairy will pay for this".

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

So, you stole the shit and you refuse to pay up?

[+] -4 points by drinkbrondo (-71) 1 year ago

Yes...I "stole the shit". Now what should I do...with "the shit". I'm slowly backing away from the computer now. I need to bitch slap liberals elsewhere

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You don't have much luck here bitch slapping anyone. In fact, it's looking like liberals are about to rip your head off and shit down your throat.

Keep thinking we are all singing Kumbuya, mother fucker.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The asshole just stated that it is running away - as it has gotten it's ass kicked from moment one of day one.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It's just going to use another character. Predictable.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That and take a time-out to try to keep it's pitiful overheating brain from popping another fuse or completely burning out.

[+] -4 points by drinkbrondo (-71) 1 year ago

You know..I would consider tapping your liberal ass before that last comment. But now I'm not so sure. You sound angry. I like nice women. Consider our date, officially off.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I wouldn't have you if you were the last cock on the planet.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Does it even have a cock? I mean - Yes it is a prick - but that don't mean it has equipment.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Hmmm......ok, that was the half second devoted to that. I say, let someone else dedicate themselves to the tweezer or not to tweezer issue.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL - I guess it is safe to figure that it does not dare to shave?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I don't wanna know.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22338) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That makes for two of us.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You lie because you're a thief?

[+] -5 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

Pension Spiking happens. http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/20131030phoenix-takes-modest-steps-fix-pension-spiking-rules.html

Doesn't mean you have to be for or against Unions to acknowledge it happens and if the rules need to change.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

How does it compare to "golden parachutes"?

I say give those perks to ALL union personnel. Just even it all out.

[+] -5 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

The purpose of golden parachutes is to make a hostile takeover less likely. I think many people would like to see corporate executives make less then many presently make. I think it should be tied into a percentage of what the company grosses, maybe 1% for the entire board?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

That's not a comparison.

In fact, you made an excuse for them.

Please provide a comparison.

And keep in mind.......WE pay for all of it.

Because if you continue in this vein, I will also be asking you about "perks".

So stay on your toes, if you plan to take jabs at the working man.

[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

You are making a somewhat heavy handed assumption that the working man dictates what his union rep's demands are.

You are also assuming that unions, who make up about 10 to 12% of the U.S. work force, actually care if their demands afflict the other 88% of the work force in a negative way.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Not heavy handed at all.

You just failed to make the comparison.

In fact, everything in that statement is false and/or assumptive.

You should stop making things up.

Union YES!

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[-] -2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 1 year ago

I'm glad you are pro union, however your apparent lack of intake of new data does not bode well for how you represent those who you believe in.

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[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

The data's not new.

What, or who makes you think so?

CATO?

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