Forum Post: A World Without Money - A New Demand
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 2:55 p.m. EST by carbonogram
(1)
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Ubuntu Contribution System
The one overwhelming aspect of the message from the Wall Street protesters is - that they don't seem to know what they really want from the banksters. We have to present a solution or a demand - not just raise our grievances with the thieves.
Do we think that they are just going to give up their control and give us money, or control, or something silly like that?
So what is it that we actually want? We have to bring them down - so that they cannot asume control again. But how do you bring the financial empire that controls everything down?
Remove their weapon - remove money from the system. Without money in the world they have zero power over anyone. Without money everyone is absolutely equal.
I urge you to consider this for a few moments and realise that this should be the New Message - "Remove money from the system".
In a world without money there is: No Crime; No Hunger; No Homelessness; No Greed; No Gluttony; No Extortion; No Hording; No Debts; No Hierarchy; No Control; No Accounts; No Obstacles to any kind of progress.
This is not Utopia – but The Natural Order of Things
Spread this information among all the people at Occupy Wall Street, London, Sydney, Tokyo and all other cities of the world. Let the people realise that the only way ahead is to remove money from the system. This will bring down all the control structures established by the “banksters” and the governments they control. www.contributionism.org
Money is just a vehicle. Eliminating money will not eliminate crime, greed, gluttony, extortion, debt, hording, hierarchy, control or accounts.
In Utopia all greed for money was entirely removed with the use of money. What a mass of troubles was then cut away! What a crop of crimes was then pulled up by the roots! Who does not know that fraud, theft, rapine, quarrels, disorders, brawls, seditions, murders, treasons, poisonings, which are avenged rather than restrained by daily executions, die out with the destruction of money? Who does not know that fear, anxiety, worries, toils, and sleepless nights will also perish at the same time as money? What is more, poverty, which alone money seemed to make poor, forthwith would itself dwindle and disappear if money were entirely done away with everywhere. — Saint Thomas More, Utopia, 1516
Thanks, but quoting philosophy doesn't prove your assertion.
Money is only valuable because having it allows one to accumulate power and things. Removing money will not magically remove man's desire for power and things.
Education & example will. Half the ppl in U$A work at unnecessary jobs: banker, cashier, insurance, real estate, sales . . .
Okay let me post another. Without money-- let's assume we return to the "natural order of things". Let's let darwinism invade the picture. Do we really feed the starving people in africa? Or do we let them starve because really-- the resources should stay here. Let the stronger species prevail right? Isn't that the natural order? Those with the most resources win?
If we stopped eating meat, there would be plenty of food (corn & soybeans) . . . without money, the half of the US population that would be out of a job could go to Africa and teach them. Most Africans have many children as social security.
I honestly applaud your optimism. But I'm not sure what half of the population would go to Africa. Volunteers for Siera Leonne, anyone?
I'm NOT very optimistic that money will be abolished willfully, I expect Babylon to fall due to geometric world population growth, peak oil, global warming and the funny-money games on Wall Street.
Not that many ppl would have to go to Africa to educate. Peace Corps is a good example.
I beg to disagree. If you look at American Indian Lore, Greek & Roman Mythology, and even the Cain and Abel story-- THERE IS CRIME. Greed, envy, sloth won't go away just because some currency is no longer available. People won't lust over another's belongings or significant other just because we get rid of money or pornography. Nice try, smart guy. Doctors shouldn't treat the symptoms-- rather the illness.
The 7-deadly sins will probably always be there but with education & example and by eliminating money, many of the temptations will go away.
How long have people been on the face of the planet? Are crime rates going down? How many great leaders have we had, yet things like tyranny and racism still exist?
Money is a big part of racism . . . many ppl believe the illegals from mexico are driving down wages, plus the costs of sending their children to school (for which they aren't very good at), their hospital costs, jail costs, birth rates (children become automatic US citizens and can "sponsor" their parents to become citizens too, etc.
I can't think of very many "great leaders" the ones that are are crucified. No doubt in my mind CIA killed JFK. http://666ismoney.com/JFKWEB.html
Wow. You answered none of my questions and didn't convince me of anything.
U don't believe losing Ur job to an illegal causes racism? Google how long ppl have been on the planet. U don't believe money is a cause of crime? (U don't believe women marry for money/security?) U don't believe the CIA killed JFK (related to money because he was against big business, etc.)? MLK was a great leader, no doubt in my mind James earl ray was a patsy like Oswald. King was killed just before he was organizing a big ralley in Washington DC in regards poverty (money).
If you think removing money would make everything equal you are absolutely incorrect. Money is just the physical manifestation of these crimes - the symptom, not the disease. But assuming it is the cause is just fallacy.
A system of power will be instituted by either the intelligent or, more likely, the physically imposing.
Without money you have no one being paid to ensure you are safe. What's to stop me from shoving my size 13 book into your face the moment I want what you have?
Ah yes, USSR did not have money and there was no crime, no hunger, no homelessness, no greed, no gluttony, no extortion, no hoarding, no debt, no hierarchy, no control, no accounts, and no obstacles to any kind of progress.
Glorious suggestion, comrade.
USSR did not eliminate money, it was one of the Party program planks in 1919 but was never implemented: "Communist society will know nothing of money [or barter/work credits] . . . socialism is an intermediate stage between capitalism and communism." -- NIKOLAI BUKHARIN, The ABC of Communism, 1919
http://occupywallst.org/forum/themultitudeorg/
This is very cool.
Porting the open-source software model to the world of politics and economics.
Author Douglas Rushkoff talks a lot about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Rushkoff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_governance
Agreed.
Money is a tool that is used by those who control it to artificially allocate a larger share of economic resources and political power to themselves.
http://metapolitik.org/content/demands
I urge all to please go to www.contributionism.org and read the documentation. UBUNTU Contributionism is not a qick fix idea - it has taken years of analysis and deep evaluation to reach these very simple conclusions. Our minds are deeply poisoned by capitalism and consumerism - free your poisoned mind - open it and see the simple solutions. Please do not jump to quick conclusions before you read all the material. This is cruch time for humanity - and we need to act now, before it all comes crumbling down. Love and Light to you all.
What destroys the money system is sustainability, high efficiency, collaboration, and general abundance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOO_AVwfZ9Q
This is an example of why people won't take you seriously. Without money how are you going to go buy food? Why will you work? You're asking for a very radical form of Communism in which a government will tell you what to do and then this government will give you what it thinks you deserve for the work you did. It's already being used in Cuba, it's a failure, and they still have greed, crime, gluttony, etc. The only difference there it's done mostly by one political party. Such ideas destroy the basic principles of freedom plus makes everyone equally poor with the exception of the decision makers who become extremely rich.
I read the information on this web site, and I have to say it makes sense. We are on the right track with getting the money out of politics, but I think we need to go further than that...
If we had a system without monetary backing it would turn to a barter system that is resource based... which isn't that bad of an idea because at least there wouldn't be artificial inflation. BUT this may be the calling for a true free market... People will still horde resources though... so don't think that money itself has anything to do with eliminating these things. Instead of treating the symptoms or the illness why don't we treat what has caused these problems? End the Federal Reserve and return to a gold standard, End the Wars a DEFEND our borders and give humanitarian aid to our citizens during times of crises. Also restore personal liberty by respecting property rights and the right for people to defend themselves, their families and their property. That would be a good start.
Maybe one day we could have a resource based system allowing for free trade for all countries. This is a globalist idea but still a beautiful one. This type of utopia may occur one day but I believe right now we have to stabilize our system and try to work with what we have. And people MUST stay active. Never turn your head because as soon as you do some politician will be reaching into your pocket.
I like your demand :)
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Credits and Debits system is beautiful. If you do a good service for another, and receive credit for it, wouldn't more and more people be motivated to do even more good for others?
There is equality in it, but not uniformism. There is fairness, not restriction. If everyone was provided for in terms of basic survival, then no one would be more "important" or "earn more" than another. Everyone would be happy because they would be provided for anyways. They would have the opportunity to do something they love and not worry about living, for god's sake.
It's not Utopia and it's not impossible. It's just the way this world was supposed to be from the beginning...equal, fair, happy, and without suffering.
Why is a currency not a "credit". You can either have a strict barter system (totally impractical for all but the smallest, most local transactions) or have a currency. Call it a credit or call it a dollar it is still the same thing.
...Duh?
Using an acronym that is also a Linux OS distribution confused me at first until I visited the website.
I like it!!
worlds not ready for moneyless societies yet.. but we are ready for the WEALTH LIMIT on individuals of say 20 million usd. any excess of this and the individual has to give it away or have it automatically distributed. at the moment incentive is only profit.. take that away and corp workers can find new incentives... like making the world a better place.
Imagine a world where billionaires dont exist and the excess money helps billions survive and live a dignified life.
I don't think we need to redistribute anything. That is stupid. If a child trick-or-treats for 2 hours and gets two bags of candy. And another gathers 5 candy bars, does anyone have the right to take the first child's candies and redistribute them? Hell no. The first child worked for it. The second did not work for any extra. Why then do we punish someone who has set up his system to gain money and give it to someone who has done nothing to earn it?
its not stupid,.. think of it this way, and to use your analogy.. if the child goes home with 21 million candy bars, then there is no way the child is ever going to need any more for the rest of his/her life.. meanwhile a mountain of the stuff sits rotting in the basement. The child could easily invite friends over to take away a million. The kid could also have not kept taking so many for sake of it and found something else to do on halloween instead of pissing people off.