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Forum Post: For St. Patrick's Day, "Hunger ; The Real Irish American Story Not Taught in Schools", by Bill Bigelow.

Posted 5 years ago on March 16, 2012, 11:07 p.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

March 15, 2012 "Huffington Post' --

"Wear green on St. Patrick's Day or get pinched." That pretty much sums up the Irish American "curriculum" that I learned when I was in school. Yes, I recall a nod to the so-called Potato Famine, but it was mentioned only in passing.

Sadly, today's high school textbooks continue to largely ignore the famine, despite the fact that it was responsible for unimaginable suffering and the deaths of more than a million Irish peasants, and that it triggered the greatest wave of Irish immigration in U.S. history. Nor do textbooks make any attempt to help students link famines past and present.

Yet there is no shortage of material that can bring these dramatic events to life in the classroom. In my own high school social studies classes, I begin with Sinead O'Connor's haunting rendition of "Skibbereen," which includes the verse :

"Oh it's well I do remember, that bleak

December day,

The landlord and the sheriff came, to drive

Us all away

They set my roof on fire, with their cursed

English spleen

And that's another reason why I left old

Skibbereen."

By contrast, Holt McDougal's U.S. history textbook The Americans, devotes a flat two sentences to "The Great Potato Famine." Prentice Hall's America: Pathways to the Present fails to offer a single quote from the time. The text calls the famine a "horrible disaster," as if it were a natural calamity like an earthquake. And in an awful single paragraph, Houghton Mifflin's The Enduring Vision: A History of the American People blames the "ravages of famine" simply on "a blight," and the only contemporaneous quote comes, inappropriately, from a landlord, who describes the surviving tenants as "famished and ghastly skeletons." Uniformly, social studies textbooks fail to allow the Irish to speak for themselves, to narrate their own horror.

These timid slivers of knowledge not only deprive students of rich lessons in Irish-American history -- they exemplify much of what is wrong with today's curricular reliance on corporate-produced textbooks.

First, does anyone really think that students will remember anything from the books' dull and lifeless paragraphs? Today's textbooks contain no stories of actual people. We meet no one, learn nothing of anyone's life, encounter no injustice, no resistance. This is a curriculum bound for boredom. As someone who spent almost 30 years teaching high school social studies, I can testify that students will be unlikely to seek to learn more about events so emptied of drama, emotion, and humanity.

Nor do these texts raise any critical questions for students to consider. For example, it's important for students to learn that the crop failure in Ireland affected only the potato -- during the worst famine years, other food production was robust. Michael Pollan notes in The Botany of Desire, "Ireland's was surely the biggest experiment in monoculture ever attempted and surely the most convincing proof of its folly." But if only this one variety of potato, the Lumper, failed, and other crops thrived, why did people starve?

Thomas Gallagher points out in Paddy's Lament, that during the first winter of famine, 1846-47, as perhaps 400,000 Irish peasants starved, landlords exported 17 million pounds sterling worth of grain, cattle, pigs, flour, eggs, and poultry -- food that could have prevented those deaths. Throughout the famine, as Gallagher notes, there was an abundance of food produced in Ireland, yet the landlords exported it to markets abroad.

The school curriculum could and should ask students to reflect on the contradiction of starvation amidst plenty, on the ethics of food exports amidst famine. And it should ask why these patterns persist into our own time.

More than a century and a half after the "Great Famine," we live with similar, perhaps even more glaring contradictions. Raj Patel opens his book, Stuffed and Starved: Markets, Power and the Hidden Battle for the World's Food System: "Today, when we produce more food than ever before, more than one in ten people on Earth are hungry. The hunger of 800 million happens at the same time as another historical first: that they are outnumbered by the one billion people on this planet who are overweight."

Patel's book sets out to account for "the rot at the core of the modern food system." This is a curricular journey that our students should also be on -- reflecting on patterns of poverty, power, and inequality that stretch from 19th-century Ireland to 21st-century Africa, India, Appalachia, and Oakland -- that explore what happens when food and land are regarded purely as commodities in a global system of profit.

But today's corporate textbook-producers are no more interested in feeding student curiosity about this inequality than were British landlords interested in feeding Irish peasants. Take Pearson, the global publishing giant. At its website, the corporation announces (redundantly) that "we measure our progress against three key measures: earnings, cash and return on invested capital." The Pearson empire had 2011 worldwide sales of more than $9 billion -- that's nine thousand million dollars, as I might tell my students. Multinationals like Pearson have no interest in promoting critical thinking about an economic system whose profit-first premises they embrace with gusto.

As mentioned, there is no absence of teaching materials on the Irish famine that can touch head and heart. In a role play, "Hunger on Trial," ( http://zinnedproject.org/posts/1422 ) that I wrote and taught to my own students in Portland, Ore. -- included at the Zinn Education Project ( http://zinnedproject.org/ ) website -- students investigate who or what was responsible for the famine. The British landlords, who demanded rent from the starving poor and exported other food crops? The British government, which allowed these food exports and offered scant aid to Irish peasants? The Anglican Church, which failed to denounce selfish landlords or to act on behalf of the poor? A system of distribution, which sacrificed Irish peasants to the logic of colonialism and the capitalist market?

These are rich and troubling ethical questions. They are exactly the kind of issues that fire students to life and allow them to see that history is not simply a chronology of dead facts stretching through time.

So go ahead: Have a Guinness, wear a bit of green, and put on the Chieftains. But let's honor the Irish with our curiosity. Let's make sure that our schools show some respect, by studying the social forces that starved and uprooted over a million Irish -- and that are starving and uprooting people today.

~

e tenebris, lux ...

~

Bill Bigelow - Co-director, Zinn Education Project; Curriculum editor, Rethinking Schools

[This article is copied verbatim under 'Fair Use' from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30825.htm / http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-bigelow/the-real-irish-american-s_1_b_1345521.html ]

93 Comments

93 Comments


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[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Slàinte & "When Irish Eyes Are Crying", by Michael Lewis :

A long, intricate and historic article but very relevant as all the salient facts behind the present Irish bankster induced penury are right there for anyone interested.

"Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona" @ OWS !!

et respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22781) 3 years ago

Today, "The Irish are mobilising and they are awakening. They hold the DNA memory of vastly ancient times, when all men and women obeyed the Golden rule of honouring themselves, one another and the planet. They recognize the value of this harmony as it relates to banking. They instantly intuit that public banking free from the soiled hands of usurious debt tyranny is part of the natural order."

From, "The Bank Guarantee that Bankrupted Ireland" by Ellen Hodgson Brown.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36729.htm

Surely, the Irish understand austerity more than most....And, Happy St. Patrick's Day!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

''Ireland, Europe, The U.S. And The Financial Crooks With Prof. Michael Hudson'' - (Audio and Transcript) : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37675.htm .

Thanx for the excellent excerpt and link by the ever insightful Ellen Brown & cross link to this forum-post from : https://occupywallst.org/forum/the-contrast-between-iceland-and-ireland-some-thou/

Happy St. Patrick's Day & Solidarity.

pax ...

[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 3 years ago

I'll be serving up a strong does of austerity on myself after the amount of money I spent on Saturday night at the St Pats parade in Ybor :)

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

''Bernie Sanders ... 'We Are Doing Something Very Radical in American Politics'''

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by nazihunter (215) 3 years ago

Hey, we're friends with England. We can't talk about their ugly Empire past which is responsible for worldwide hatred of the white man. India, China, Africa, etc. Where was that in the textbooks? Oh, and the Middle East. Yes, the English enslave you on your own land and then blame those they take advantage of for their lot. When you're not in control of your lot, how can you be blamed? There were no English bright enough to ask that question back then. Did you mention that also the result of a "free trade" experiment in Europe. Worked out well, didn't it? Maybe we should have Irish History month? Nope, can't do it. People might get along. The powers can't have that.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 3 years ago

Chalmers Johnson (RiP) on 'Empire' :

As you allude to, the British (& The English in particular) wrote the modern play book re. 'Empire' and we are still lining with the consequences thereof.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 3 points by chell6 (1) from Vienna, Wien 5 years ago

Great post..thanks:)

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22781) 5 years ago

Thanks for this great post, shadz66. There are some good children's books out their on the Irish famine, one off the top of my head is "Maggie's Door" by Patricia Reilly Giff.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

You're welcome 'bw' and again from below, I link (with the lyrics this time) to a rather 'beautiful' paen to Irish emigration : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27iJsZpQn3A&feature=related :-)

Happy "Paddy's Day" to you and yours.

Slàinte !

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22781) 5 years ago

Nice. Thanks!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 months ago

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona

Happy St. Patrick's Day

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22781) 5 months ago

Jeremy Corbyn, the global 99 percent's next best hope. Leader of the Labour Party of the United Kingdom and tightening the Tory lead more and more each day. He very well may be the next Prime Minister.

Read the Labour Manifesto:

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017

A platform "For The Many, Not The Few"

Raising corporate taxes to provide for the people. Ending austerity.

(This seemed a good place to put this since MSM has such obsessions with Corbyn's ties to Ireland, lol.)

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Manifesto is a thing of utter beauty for the world at large - NOT just UK, bw & so many thanx for putting the link up here above. Furthermore, to follow it, please consider why in UK:

per ardua ad astra ..

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22781) 5 months ago

UK youth must get out and vote on June 8th. They also need to call their grandparents and ask them to vote Labour. The Labour Manifesto benefits not only the young but also the old.

This website spells out all the reasons why grandparents should vote Labour:

www.callyourgrandfolks.com

Issues that affect older people:

  1. The Conservatives will introduce a Dementia Tax on your home, while Labour will invest £8 billion in social care.
  2. The Conservatives will scrap the winter fuel allowance for millions of pensioners, while Labour will maintain it for everyone.
  3. The Conservatives will scrap the triple lock on pensions, while Labour have promised to keep it.

Issues that will affect young people:

  1. Labour will scrap tuition fees, while the Conservatives will keep them at £9250 a year. FREE UNI TUITION!
  2. Labour will build half a million council houses while the Conservatives have been selling them off.
  3. Labour will raise the minimum wage to £10 by 2020, while the Conservatives will only raise it to £8.75.

Labour has costed everything out and funds it with higher Corporate tax and higher taxes on the wealthy.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

I love Jeremy Corbyn! And I don't really care who knows it, lol!! His excellent Labour Party Manifesto: http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017 - is a thing of beauty that'll be referred to for many years to come and it could permanently realign UK, European and even Global Politics!!! Also fyi,see

Corbyn showed what's possible IF we hold our nerve. He & Labour Party are poised to win next time! Millions of people, many young but not all - have been enthused & reanimated by him. I love the guy!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

''Why this year's UK Election feels like a victory after 20 Years of Neoliberalism'', by Joe Macare:

''We Are Not Broke: Trashing the Austerity Lies'', by William Rivers Pitt:

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22781) 5 months ago

Tories won, but they lost.

Labour lost, but they won.

Corbyn has triumphed in rolling back not only austerity but the upcoming "hard" Brexit that Theresa May has been pushing. He has effectively ended the surging inequality and proven that more and more people are shaking the Stockholm Syndrome and are a. aware of the problem and b. ready to fight for the return of the social contract.

May this be the beginning of the end of neoliberal policies that have harmed so many.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

Indeed - "Tories won, but they lost"

And ''Labour lost" but won and got,

A Lasting Place In History,

For opposition to Austerity,

So forge on with a thickening plot!

spero meliora ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22781) 5 months ago

Grenfell Tower & Finsbury Park are both symptomatic of neoliberal policies that push greed and fear. Keep the money at the top at all costs and keep the people in poverty and in fear of one another, kill them, even. It worked until now but I think we're beginning to see the awakening of the people.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/17/khadija-saye-artist-was-on-cusp-of-recognition-when-she-died-in-grenfell

She won't die in vain. Too many people care now.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

''Grenfell - Bridge Over Troubled Water'' (Official Video)

TY for that powerful link. RIP Khadija Saye & RIP the 100+, some of whom may never be known.

They ''won't die in vain. Too many people care now.'' Neoliberalism & Austerity Kills People!

désolé.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22781) 4 months ago

"Desperate pleas for help 'faster than this' a month after fatal Grenfell Tower fire"

Tory gov't and Theresa May are so so lacking.

“We're poor people, no one cares about us,” Tanya Thompson, an eyewitness and local campaigner, told ABC News. “You know just ordinary people living ordinary lives who need to be kept safe -- who need somewhere to live, who have a right for social housing, who need to be treated with respect and then need to be listened to.”

http://abcnews.go.com/International/desperate-pleas-faster-month-fatal-grenfell-tower-fire/story?id=48536541

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

That's interesting. We studied in school when I was a kid.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Aye, to be sure there's many a history half told or not told at all. Here's another one for you :

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

"Democracy, Disillusion and The Political Process", by Caoimhghin Ó Croidheáin :

"A new nationwide opinion poll in Ireland has shown that people are becoming more and more disillusioned with the political process leading one to wonder if democracy (people rule) has simply become demopsefia (people vote). This type of disillusionment is becoming widespread across Europe in general. While no one is naive enough to believe all the promises of politicians, in recent years the desires of the electorate seem to be ever more blatantly subsumed to the financial interests/problems of recent governments." & ...

"Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona"

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Lá sona Naomh Pádraig a thabhairt duit chomh maith le!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

Thanx for the thought & hope you had a good one 'g'. Here's one for you :

Solidarity @ you and yours.

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Thanks, my friend. Solidarity.

Edit: a tax on bank deposits? Un-f'king real!!

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 years ago

people are becoming more and more disillusioned with the political process

Hell - and here all this time - I thought it was just me.

[-] 2 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 5 years ago

Very interesting post...and here's something else I learned and just wanted to share....FYI

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/236241/45/Its-St-Paticks-Day-not-Pattys-Paddys-or-Pats

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Thanx 'Nwurldo' ! Interesting link, tho' The Irish in the UK don't seem as touchy on this matter (from my perception) ... maybe cos they're closer to home. Anyway and despite my faux pas (apparently) to 'bw' below and 'Odin' above, here's a tune : "The Pogues - Lullaby Of London" ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPtw8Pl_fn0&feature=related ;-)

And I'll play it safe with my salutation with ...

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona !

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 5 years ago

brilliant!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

'flip' : Thanx mate and re. The BS at the bottom of the thread, 'ahh forget about it' ; he doesn't know his - ass (..x..) from his elbow |_ .

On a happier note : "The Pogues - If I Should Fall from Grace with God" ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBLqp-s__o&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL50052CA5E76E3831 !!

Happy Paddy's Day dude ;-)

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona !

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 5 years ago

the pogues - nice - my daughters wedding song!

[-] 2 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

Thanks Shadz for that bit of history...and how it relates to today. I have been a critic of the way history has been taught in our schools for a long time. I can understand in the lower grades..the possible need to have a sanitized version of history, but I believe it should be about truth..no matter where the marbles land...well as near as possible, and it seldom is. I wish I had you as a social studies teacher in school. My heirtage on my mom's side...Comiskey..goes back to the county of Mayo, then of course on my dad's Viking side, we did drop in to say hello...sorry.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

'Odin' : LoL ! I'm glad you liked it mate and again recommend (from the article) http://zinnedproject.org/ .

Happy "St.Paddy's Day" & re. your back story and on a cheery note : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZCFVXwELtM&feature=related !!

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona !

[-] 3 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

I listened to the song which was cute, and also looked up your parting shot...just to make sure you weren't calling me a "muppet." :-) Happy St. Paddy's Day to you too....albeit a day late. I checked out that web site. It looks interesting and will dive into it tomorrow.

Just got back (0130hrs.) from celebrating St. Paddy's Day at O'Zuccotti Park in NYC...a full eleven hours with those crazy people who think that they can change the world..imagine that! I somehow got recruited into filling up bowls of food in this Indian restaurant for the OWS people in the park...no corn beef and cabbage in sight. This is a vege revolution...as far as I can figure!? That should make the wing-nuts even more skeptical of us.

I had a lot of good conversations, and one in particular with a real nice Muslim couple, and told them my story which you know. They told me that it meant a lot to them to hear that, as they have been going through some rough times. They both hugged me...it was really cool. I avoided getting arrested.... this time, but expect to sooner or later. All in all...a great day. I really enjoy being with those courageous and determined people.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

'O' : Thanx. Nice read. + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdB-8eLEW8g&feature=related , 1<3 ~;-)

[-] 2 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

Yes..One Love by Marley is a good song for the movement. Someone was playing Irish tunes on a sax at the park yesterday which was cool. Early this morning I wanted to figure out, in my mind anyway who did Danny boy the best. My favorites were Deanna Durbin, Mario Lanza,... and Eric Clapton for just intrumental...none of whom are Irish...

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

Had to post this one more for a really happy St. Partric's day. You know what they say about the Irish, "All their songs are sad, and their wars are merry!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S7ITkoxojI

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

How about : The Pogues - "Sunny Side Of The Street" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBaKWLoFYmQ&feature=related ? :-)

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

That was great, I've never heard of them - have to check out more of their stuff.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

during the first winter of famine, 1846-47, as perhaps 400,000 Irish peasants starved, landlords exported 17 million pounds sterling worth of grain, cattle, pigs, flour, eggs, and poultry -- food that could have prevented those deaths. Throughout the famine, as Gallagher notes, there was an abundance of food produced in Ireland, yet the landlords exported it to markets abroad.

not much different from today... huh ?

[-] 4 points by Pujete (160) from New York, NY 5 years ago

"Free trade" is how Western imperialism does genocide.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Great post shadz66 ... ;) THANKS

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Cheers 'BB' & "The Pogues - "Danny Boy" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnfmagQoYrA&feature=related - gorra be done once at least today !!

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona !

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 5 years ago

I read that during the peak of the "famine", when produce was being shipped out of Ireland, tonnes of African maize was shipped in to feed the starving Irish "tenants". Thing is, maize was unknown to the Irish people, and requires grinding for flour, or extensive cooking to be eaten whole.

Thousands died from ingesting the indigestible grain. The English landlords were never held accountable.

[-] 1 points by Pujete (160) from New York, NY 5 years ago

Add a few thousand for the Africans who starved because their maize was sold out from under them.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22781) 3 months ago

Palestinian flag flying over Dublin in May.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHdjdreuomw

The oppressed recognize the oppression of other's and hence, have empathy.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

"... there was an abundance of food produced in Ireland, yet the landlords exported it to markets abroad...."

Yes, and today the Gates foundation is encouraging that kind of "market growth" in Africa and other places they afflict with their "charity."

Gates inspired markets in Africa made money for domestic elites and foreigners by exporting cash crops, while local people starved. Markets are not good for people. They only work for the parasites, like Gates and Trump, who own everything and enslave everyone else with debts.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

"Throughout the famine, as Gallagher notes, there was an abundance of food produced in Ireland, yet the landlords exported it to markets abroad."

Yes, and today the Gates foundation is encouraging that kind of "market growth" in Africa and other places they afflict with their "charity."

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

Markets can work pretty well in normal circumstances but are utterly inadequate in extreme situations. Famines in the midst of plenty are often man-made, showing the inadequacy of the economic system.

There should be some highly capable or influential person or organization under localized control to take extraordinary measures. As a great landlord as well as the clan chief, my Grandpa owned much land so he had a wealthy godson who owned a warehouse full of grains. When hyperinflation hit, his godson refused to sell his grains to the people for their almost worthless money. When the people begged my Grandpa, he influenced his godson to open up the warehouse to sell grains and thus famine was averted.

The nexus of kinship, wealth, and influence can work well in that extreme case because the clan chief, like a "sheepdog," has the responsibility to care for the "flock of sheep." He also had his workers stock the wayside rest stations with free refreshments, drinks, and clean facial towels everyday. My Mom said that these acts were the seed planted for us descendants in the "people's hearts." We were therefore "connected," partly through these "random acts of kindness." Even when we were without any tangible possessions, the "people's hearts" still held our real wealth which could not be(and were not) confiscated.

As long as we put people first, we can often avoid man-made catastrophes. We invented money(and later on credit) so let us not be led astray by our man-made idol of money. Our purpose is to take care of people. Of course, money can help in some cases in our economic system but let us not confuse the means with the end.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

Gates inspired markets in Africa made money for domestic elites and foreigners by exporting cash crops, while local people starved. Markets are not good for people. They only work for the parasites, like Gates and Trump, who own everything and enslave everyone else with debts.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

The money made by people in the process of informing the market of real-world conditions is often justified. I wouldn't say that markets categorically are not good for people. Markets are often far better than centrally planned rationings. You may not appreciate the differences unless you have dealt with vouchers for oil, vouchers for flour, vouchers for poultry, vouchers for soaps, etc., black markets for the exchange trading of vouchers, and bribes to officials to satisfy exceptional needs.

Generally, it's not smart to jump out of the frying pan to land in the fire. Only when we have found adequate replacements for markets should we switch to using them. Markets, if well regulated, are usually very efficient during normal operations, and they serve far more people than just the "parasites."

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

The poor in Africa starve, while the poor in America live ten years less than average and suffer from malnutrition related diseases like diabetes. The middle class are languishing and only the top ten percent are doing well in the market economy.

Yet conservatives always imagine a dystopia worse than the one they impose by their greed if the system could be changed to improve lives at the bottom. But you, grapes, think no one sees through you're libertarian sophistry and hypocrisy.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

Why do you think God ALSO planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil beside the Tree of Life? It's because God did not want just blind followers but eyes-wide-open faithful followers of Him in free choice.

I think that you've mislabelled me as a Libertarian. I'm more of a Utilitarian in my own opinion. We should give people maximal Liberty to do whatever they want as long as others' and community's interests are not infringed upon. This maximizes Happiness. Yes, for a margin of safety for all, we Must impose slightly tougher than absolutely necessary regulations so we don't "fall off of the cliff" inadvertently as a society with a minority "pushing for a greater view." Laws and speed bumps are generally made for the idiots amongst us.

Oh yes, I recognize the existence of "white" aliens as well as idiots living amongst us. I hate speed bumps but I hate more to have children being picked up by schoolbuses or folks walking their dogs picking up their excrements be run over by the idiots tweeting, drinking alcoholic beverages, racing, applying mascaras, eating donkey donuts, getting a blow-job, talking on the mobile phones, etc. So we live with idiotic laws!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

The existence of the FIRE sector is an infringement on the communities interest. Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed and many others have known that fact. Yet conservatives, libertarians and apparently some "utilitarian" observers miss it.

What do the trees in the garden represent for you?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

Without the FIRE sector, many desirable things wouldn't happen. No airplanes fly without insurance. Drivers getting into a car accident fight each other. Few satellites would be launched into space fostering communications, coordinations, and guidance. Most imports and exports cannot happen because no one wants to take the risks.

My Grandpa inspected and underwrote many of these trading expeditions to get the things that people wanted and desired. By their very nature, these tended to be far-flung expeditions that people couldn't easily undertake by themselves(due to the great financial risks involved leading to bankruptcies[easier for some, harder for the others] if things go wrong). Generally speaking, voluntary trading enriches both sides if done squarely. Fruckgina plays the U.S. for a fool with its state collusions of 51% indigenous ownership mandate and technology transfers for 'joint'(getting American workers fickende) ventures. Americans must have been smoking many 'joints.' Periplaneta americana are flying all over the Earth at over 16000 mph.

Both trees in the Garden of Eden lead to eternal life(including that life in the so-called "Hell" where Mr. McCourt of "Angela's Ashes" fame can surely be found), albeit in different ways: "Love cannot live without trust." There was a secondary offering of a fruit of the Tree of Life because Abram(a.k.a. Abraham) had offered his (begotten by God's Will)son's life for sacrifice that God stopped by interceding in His own way for the son, Isaac, reconciling Justice with Love.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

profit is not necessary to provide FIRE services. to get out of debt bondage to the bankster, investor and the rest of the FIRE parasite class, we must do what needs to be done of, by and for the people on a non-profit basis. The sooner the Wall St. plutocrats are eliminated from the pool, the better the chances are that the human race will survive.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

If by "pool" you mean the "tidal pool" in Washington D.C. next to the Potomac River, I agree wholeheartedly. I've been to more than half of the U.S. states and that one hands down holds the champion title for being the stinkiest and 'smokiest' of all. A big show is coming tomorrow. Hopefully, the "swamp" doesn't just catch fire in a Me-thane explosion. "Humpty Dumpty is still sitting on the wall, just fine." All the President's men are standing by.

The former Director of the FBI said that the President had "lied." He's a little bit off because he left out the "-in-Chief" part worthy of the President's commanding presence and his so-called "absolute right." Liar-in-Chief is therefore more befitting.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

I've descended as deep into the muck as I'm willing to go. That said, I'll rise a little.

We don't have to physically harm the rich or even sterilize their children at puberty to eliminate them from the pool. We can simply tax them out of existence. Thus we can fulfill the prophecy, "The meek shall inherit the Earth." That needs to happen before the bold parasites have made it utterly uninhabitable for decent human beings.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

All it takes is just a 100% inheritance tax. That's how the White men got the land from the natives. By law(of the White men enforced at gunpoint), the natives had to sell their land to White men upon their deaths. In one generation, the transition of land ownership was complete. Not a single shot needed to be fired.

"Holy Land in America just had to be blessed by the ownership of the Holy Stewards." "Semites of Northern Europe were especially astute in assessing the True values of real estate and go after them with 'out of the thin air' credit. It's God's gift to America(propping up 'asset' values and greater mortgage burdens). The British Empire had been well blessed before that but most recently in England." I'm a Christian, I suppose, due to my having been baptized. Violence is unholy, LGBTQAI and masturbation are all fine in my Utilitarian version of Christianity. Dr. Joycelyn Elders, the former Surgeon General forced to resign by the Blown-Jobs-in-Chief, was far ahead of her time and more rational than most of the denizens of the Cesspool.

We don't need such excessive whinnings from the Liar-in-Chief anymore. Take Planck's Constant 'h' out of the Berlin oven(no Jew's loaded in there yet in 1900) so that we are not afflicted by the many bizarre and inexplicable Quantum Leaps but just let us have plain and simple Classical 'Lubes' to the Ultraviolet Catastrophe!

We want winnings like those in Munich 1972 or of Michael Phelps, not the 'quantum leap' whinnings after everybody has drunk their full of Carlsberg beer to fund "understanding of the Berlin oven's glow."

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

h nu! knocked down by the light, R U?

h nu derives from the formula defining the energy contained in one photon of light: each photon possesses energy equal to Planck’s constant (h) multiplied by its frequency ν (a Greek letter nu pronounced “new”). In plain English HNU is the ENERGY of LIGHT!

Boltzman's constant is k.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

Planks constant and the evaluation of Boltzman's k come from the same empirical data. What sort of Trump twister will indicate that "experimental" means "out of thin air?" from Wikipedia:

E = h f 

Planck was able to calculate the value of h from experimental data on black-body radiation: his result, 6.55×10−34 J⋅s, is within 1.2% of the currently accepted value.[6] He was also able to make the first determination of the Boltzmann constant kB from the same data and theory.[9]

[6] Planck, Max (1901), "Ueber das Gesetz der Energieverteilung im Normalspectrum" http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/annalen/history/historic-papers/1901_309_553-563.pdf

[9] Planck, Max (2 June 1920), The Genesis and Present State of Development of the Quantum Theory (Nobel Lecture)

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

The empirical data had been available to others before Planck grappled with the theoretical explanation. The others did not come up with the quantum hypothesis. That's why I called the two constants 'a' and 'b'(only later changed to 'h'[for Hell? The oven was certainly Hot to be a carrier of light as Lucifer was] and 'k'[for King? All understanding will come through what 'k' is associated with but 'k' is Not quite what it seems - it actually links man-made units to dimensionless God's units{God created the integers} understandable to extraterrestrial aliens as well, according to the Universal Comprehensibility Principle]) as having been pulled "out of the thin air."

It was a truly revolutionary(though not enough according to Einstein who extended the quantization to the radiation itself) theoretical conceptual breakthrough but it reeked of an attempt "to fit the curve" because 'a' and 'b' are customarily used for mathematical constants and parameters. Planck was solving it essentially as a boundary value problem with the experimental data setting the boundary condition. The quantum hypothesis was certainly coming "out of the thin air."

[-] 1 points by grapes (5019) 5 months ago

Max Planck pulled "out of the thin air" the two so-called universal physical constants: 'h' and 'k' but only one is a fundamental physical constant. The other one is man-made "credit." It's truly magical for anyone who understands the Process. Berlin's oven glows. Most people still have too much Carlsberg beer in them to comprehend.

》Wir trinken noch Quantenkaffee hier in V.S.A. Trinkst du eine Limon(saure aber süße) mit mir?

Meine Nichte starb im Krankenhaus, nachdem ein wilder Fahrer von Eat Sleep Race in einem schnellangetriebenen Auto über sie gelaufen war. Ich war sehr entfernt von ihr, als sie starb, aber ich fühlte mich plötzlich sehr traurig, während ich dieses Lied hörte. Ich weinte ohne ersichtlichen Grund. Erst später habe ich die Synchronizität ihres Todes und meine überwältigende Traurigkeit im selben Augenblick entdeckt. Sie erschien in Träume von meinem Bruder. Sie bat um Rache.《

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

holy usury batman! who's behind the perpetual real estate bubble and the fictitious capital that finances it?

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1888) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 months ago

I love the edit feature!

the answer to the comment above is contained in grape's comment above that:

"... Semites of Northern Europe were especially astute in assessing the True values of real estate and go after them with 'out of the thin air' credit. It's God's gift to America(propping up 'asset' values and greater mortgage burdens)...."

Hmmm?

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

'G' : Your comment got me thinking. Shane McGowan is (despite appearances some times, lol !) a very highly literate, intelligent and knowledgeable songwriter and I've always wondered about this song (and check the lyrics) :

Slàinte !

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

'Gild@sSapiens' : Thanx for these very nice links to hidden / lost history ;-)

On a similar historical theme, a tune to Irish Emigration - past, present (alas) and future : The Pogues - "Thousands Are Sailing" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-OnS3LPt0w&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL122794008C397583 .

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona !!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

Great Post, and thank you. My English - Irish background gives an interesting perspective on all this, and was one reason that when I was young I was sort of constantly at at war with myself! My Irish ancestry came right out of Skibbereen, and the psychic damage very much persists to this day.

Such horrors resound through the centuries, breeding further horrors, and that is partly why it is our duty to see that they end. Although it is set later than the truely horrible years of the great famine, don't forget "Angela's Ashes," a memior by the recently deceased Frank McCourt. Essential reading for those interested in, or part of the Irish Legacy. Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dgVeoAWHPw

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Top o' the morning and you're more than welcome mate. I was rather moved by your post and I know that book. Thanx for the haunting 'Wolfe Tones' track and I reciprocate with the somewhat more raucous but endearing two trax by one of my favourite Irish bands, 'A House', now alas no longer but also not yet knocked down ;-)

"All dead but still Alive" :

Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona !!

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

Thanks, Shadz.

[-] 0 points by GumbyDamnit (36) 5 years ago

What happened to the Chinese and Irish in America, AFTER THE HEINOUS CIVIL WAR, was far worse than any slavery. Ditto for Native Americans.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

"G" : Fine question, "Damnit" ! Perhaps some answers can be found herein :

fiat lux ...

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

It should also see - Slavery by a Another name - PBS special.

Nice link BTW.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

You are so very helpful. Now it won't get lost in Looking.

You are GOOD.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Very very nice post. Remembering the sins/abuse of past societies and tying it to today's repeats of historic abuse.

Those who do not learn from the lessons of the past are likely to repeat them.

The haven that so many of the worlds oppressed people came to, to find hope and a healthy prosperous life.

Is now in danger of becoming another oppressive Land.

This is the time to stand-up and be counted. Do not let this haven die.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

Slàinte 'DKAt' ;-) & "The Pogues - Streets of Sorrow / Birmingham Six"* : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS6AzLphimM&feature=related & as someone who clearly remembers 'The Troubles', I give thanx for The Peace.

fiat pax et ... "Lá Fhéile Pádraig Shona" !

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Nice to have included the lyrics.

People learn from others experience - Please.

Oppression of a people is never a good thing.

Look at the years of hate killing corruption - and say - NO MORE.

Do not let this happen to America, stop this from continuing Elsewhere in the world.

Unite in common cause. Health and Prosperity for all.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Thank you for providing good meaning in celebrating a St. Paddy's Day.

This is such a good Post for the Day as well as for the times.

Never say Die.

We live and work together in common cause.

End oppression. All Oppression.

[+] -6 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 5 years ago

Okay. Here is your answer: The Irish are white. The white liberal doesn't care about the white past. It isn't important.

[-] 8 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

You speak for yourself.

I've known this for years, only because I'm curious about all people, and read about them.

You're just a sad dark star, that hasn't the curiosity to wonder.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33208) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

BlackHole would be more appropriate.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 5 years ago

@ 'BS' : WTF are you on about ?!!! Answer to what ?!! Where did I even ask a question of you, of all people ?!

No damn wonder that the 'Sun' is 'Black' to you IF you keep wearing your (x) as a hat !!!

Get of your horse and drink your milk 'Cowboy' cos you're 'all hat 'n' no cattle' !! Dolt !

e tenebris ... lux ?

[-] 2 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 5 years ago

Sorry to disagree, but your comment sounds just like another racist regarding the indigenous peoples of the world, including those of Moroccan, African, India, Chinese, Japanese, South American, Pacific Islanders, etc. descent..... It is important for everyone, and I do mean Everyone...to understand where they come from, their ancestry and their history... Why do you think the majority of the people here in America still call themselves black, or African American, or Negro, etc.?? Could it be from the fact that "it wasn't important" for them to know about their true origin, history and ancestry here on these shores and still don't??? Your comment is very inappropriate!

[-] 2 points by flip (7101) 5 years ago

the irish white? do you know what nina means??