Forum Post: "A problem adequately stated is a problem well on its way to being solved" - Buckminster Fuller.
Posted 11 years ago on June 6, 2012, 10:23 p.m. EST by shadz66
(19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Buckminster Fuller said :
"A problem adequately stated is a problem well on its way to being solved" ..
While the thin veneer comprising the owners of capital continues to exist above a slightly thicker layer of so-called "knowledge workers", most Americans sense they are sliding down a steepening economic slope. With the highest concentration and income in the industrial world, The U$A is now the developed world's most economically stratified society, edging out even such traditional class-conscious societies as in The UK - which acquired its disparities from a feudal and oligarchical past. American society lacks that handy excuse - it didn't inherit inequity - it chose to create it !
Consider that most citizens in The USA, need to work for themselves or by selling their labour, knowledge and expertise - work for others in order to pay their bills, take care of their obligations and finance their lifestyles. Thus from this perspective, stripped of hubris, conceits and affectations - most people are 'Working Class', irrespective of what they may actually do or how much they earn !!
Perhaps there is - more than ever, the most urgent need for a political party to Truly Represent 'Labour" - as opposed to the situation now where both sides of the 'faux dichotomy of Republocrat / Demoblican', only ever really represents "Capital". Past November '2012's 'Presidential Selection', it is high time for a real "American Labour Party" and / or Real Independents !!!
Frankly, Wisconsin bodes ill. What are The American 99% going to do about it ?
Well just for a start, they'd better get to Educating ; Agitating and Organising - 'PDQ', because ...
"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people" - John Adams - Second US President (1797 - 1801), thus :
"From Democracy to Plutocracy : There's nothing conservative about Gov. Walker's autocratic power grab.", by Jim Hightower : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27986.htm ,
"Wisconsin is Making the Battle Lines Clear in America's Hidden Class War - The brazen choices of the Republican governor shows the real ideology behind attacks on unions – in the US and beyond", by Gary Younge : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27578.htm &
"Crushing Workers in Wisconsin Has National Effects", by Laura Flanders : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27566.htm .
facta non verba et per ardua ad astra ...
The most telling statistic I heard in the post mortems was that 40% of labor union members voted for Scott. Obviously, it isn't just the Tea Party members that are stupid and vote against their self interests. Organized labor voted to lose their jobs, healthcare and pensions. My Momma said, "Stupid is, as stupid does."
I think it is time to start packing. No, not a gun, clothes and the family album.
Just because someone has a vote doesn't mean they are going to agree with you. It's a problem in a republic and it could easily be a bigger one in a direct democracy. So if you're unable to convince that 40%, what do you do? You eventually run out of places to run away to if you can't educate and change the opposition.
Yeah, but I am old and can't wait for the icebergs to melt. Ohhh, just a minute, They have melted. I can't wait for the rocks to crumble. That's it, rocks. I am going to die much sooner than eventually.
We have the power of the vote and it's still considered a sacred right. Our problem is we're not allowed to vote for our priorities, we are given only candidates to vote for instead! Why is our vote limited to a nominee when we want our voices heard on priorities? We have referendums already, let's have lots of them, and allow democracy to work.
This would allow the Tea Partier to vote the same way as an Occupier, on major issues that trump minor issues. Instead, each side is forced to choose a person backed by one of two parties, causing many people to not even bother to vote.
Give us something real to vote for.
Great point. Voting for puppet leaders should be for muppets only.
Yes, and the muppets priorities probably differ from mine, but there are fewer of them than people like me. Democracy wins.
I literally meant muppets. But you got the point. Real democracy is the only way.
I assumed you were refering to the Goldman Sachs clients, they called them muppets recently.
How appropriate !
I like Elmo.
Tickle me DKA.
Hey, shut up Fozzie Bear. Don't be jealous.
AHhahaha - where is Beaker? He could put an end to all of the doubts of the doubters of global warming and pollution.
Last I heard, Beaker was still trying to get the bucket off his head.
Yep - Brainy but needing a keeper. I knew a guy like that when I worked at CDC ( Control Data Corporation - not center for disease control ) _ amazing math genius - confirmed computer math computation correctness. Worked the same problems given to the computer to solve ( in his head ) usually beat the computer to the result. Once saw him flood his carb - then remove the air cleaner cover light a match to look into the throat of the carb - singed off his eyelashes eyebrows and sizzled the hair on the front of his head. He was given a driver at that point in time.
That was a smooth move. LOL.
OH - Man the guy was a trip. When he was working a problem they finally figured out that they needed someone to keep an eye on him as he would wander off. Just get up and go. This was out in Bloomington close by where the metropolitan stadium used to be - where the mall of America is now. Well the traffic around the area at that time was still pretty intense and he would have a tendency to walk out into traffic with out being aware. Trippy guy but brilliant.
It appears Mr. Bean has met his match.
Mr. Bean could have gotten a lot of good material - lol.
Monty python as well.
I saw a good quote the other day:
"If voting actually changed anything, they'd make it illegal."
That's so funny. I think I have that bumper sticker. I guess we shouldn't vote then.
Thx
I agree with the gist of your point But -
'They' will "give" you NOTHING !!!
Y'all have to 'Make &/or Take' it !!
per aspera ad astra !
Let's roll!
Is anyone paying attention?
In 2010 the Tea Party took control in Wisconsin. If your not fimiliar with them their pet peeve is public employee unions. That's it. Obviously they would like to have a state or government job but can't get one so they want to lower the standard of living of public employees. When they are not doing this they are shilling for the richest people in society and they want to reduce their tax rate. That's all these people do, nothing else. Democrats insist the Tea Party is all about going after the unions and the democrats are lying.
[Removed]
Hmmm. Re. your : "In 2010 the Tea Party took control in Wisconsin. If your not fimiliar (sic) with them their pet peeve is public employee unions. That's it." ... AND ... " Democrats insist the Tea Party is all about going after the unions" .. so tell us how are The Democraps lying again ?!
Democraps or Republicunts - same sh-t ; same day. They are both merely Two-Faux Factions of The ONE Corporate WAR Party & makes no difference outside The U$A whichever !!
"Tea Party" ? WTF ?! Is that cos Coffee is too strong for 'em ?!! Effete wankers !!!
verum ex absurdo ...
Bill Clinton says we should lower taxes for everyone. That's what the Tea Party wants to do isn't it? Now the white house is mad at him. Boo who, they not seeing eye-to-eye. I think they'll go with Clinton on this because Obama will have a tough time convincing people he'll tax the rich.
I think that you'd be much better off talking to someone who gives a sh-t about your tedious, tendentious, totally tiresome - twaddle.
veritas vos liberabit ...
OK, but didn't you talk to me first? Bye.
Nope. You commented on my 'forum-post' "first" !
fiat lux ...
OK. Want to start a Labor Party? The only people I can think of that can pull it off would be the Teamsters. It would be tough for OWS to do. Come on Shadz, think. A labor party would be a centrist party. It would force the democratic party to adopt OWS's agenda.
Whatever dude ! Please stop parading your limited imagination on this thread !! Pretty please & thanx !!!
vincit qui se vincit ...
Grow up. It would very difficult for anyone to start a Labor Party but anything is possible. Americans seem to be OK with the Tea Party so whatever.
Americans "OK" with the Koch sucking Tea Party are like Turkeys "OK" with Thanksgiving !!!
A Clueless Collective of Corporate Controlled Clones in an Astro-Turf Phenomenon !!
Proud to be Sheep who won't even bleat on their way to The Slaughterhouse !
veritas vos liberabit ...
The Tea Party must be some kind of idiot savants politically because dems and repubs are doing what they tell them to do. I need to get out more. Maybe I can find some Tea Party type strippers to support me. It's not like I'm going to vote for them.
"The Tea Party must be some kind of idiot s" ! Yes, that much is true, I agree !! verum ex absurdo !!!
Tea was co-opted by the establishment, which is exactly what is going to happen to OWS if it gains enough momentum and goes in a threatening direction.
Consider carefully : 'The Tea Party IS The Extreme Wing OF The Establishment' !!!
OWS's Deep Strength Is being amorphous & diffuse like a fierce, etheric vapour !!
What they cant get a hold off ... The Bastards Can't Co-opt !
ad iudicium ...
Very true. Its a fine line between being amorpheous and being so horizontal that things are too chaotic though.
I think thats the fine line that OWS had a hard time toeing.
The more of us that get clued up about The Banksters and their Crimes the better especially with a view to September 17th & onwards :
http://occupywallst.org/forum/s17-follow-money-all-roads-lead-wall-street/ &
http://s17nyc.org/ .
per ardua ad astra ...
Problem: Corruption at every level and geography of governance. Every national government on the globe, down to wait staff sharing tips.
The US ranks #20. It's better than our health care.
Sure, because Americans line up for healthcare in Costa Rica. Ya see it all the time. LOL
The US ranks # 20 in corruption. #27 to #34 in healthcare. What does that tell you?
It tells me leftists do the rankings. Even Michael Moore knows better than to head to Cuba for healthcare.
The fun part would be to re-run the rankings without the public unions liberals love. LOL
You are demented. There is a reality just beyond that fog bank. Go for it. Anything you don't like, you blame on your adversaries with no evidence what so ever. That is not sanity. What number would believe, also without any proof? If there is such a number, you have proved the point.
I know, you don't believe there is a thing called "proof." It was just made up by your enemies.
But almost no one would consider leaving the US for healthcare and unions are a historically problematic area of corruption. Sorry.
There is this thing called "medical tourism" and government itself is an even more prominent field for corruption. Especially those parties prone to authoritarianism.
That is amazingly rare. Someone's always going to think heading to India to get their tits fixed for $250 makes sense. I guess you're one of them. LOL.
I'm still waiting for that pig Mike Moore to show up in Cuba. LOL
No I didn't but my wife has had two surgeries and is in her Chemo phase right now. People do whatever they can to keep their family members alive. So-called medical tourism isn't all cosmetic. A lot of it is chasing survival. So what is your point again.? That she should die to make some political statement? Why are you attacking me? How have I damaged you? You live in what healthcare system? You like it or you hate it? What do you expect me to do about it.
They do, that's why medical tourism is rare. Leftists don't back up their hatred of our system with hospital admissions in the places they claim are better. Their own actions call bullshit.
Logic seems to have left the building, good bye.
But patients hardly ever leave the country, despite leftist rankings.
Does it really add anything to the conversation put "leftist" in every sentence without any proof what so ever? It doesn't add to your credibility.
See you in Costa Rica for your next doctor appointment. LOL
I have a nuclear stress test Monday AM and an ultrasound after that. It's about a mile from my house.
You have made no point what so ever.
You tried to pass something off as objective that wasn't. Leftist fits.
Like what? http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/26/us-corruption-transparency-idUSTRE69P0X620101026
http://www.transparency-usa.org/
Besides, if it wasn't "revealed," you wouldn't believe it anyway.
Conservatives seek to conserve civilization
Liberals seek to expand civilization
Socialists seek to help people
Libertarians seek to help themselves
the best person to help me is me
nobody knows more about me than me
Ya mean like business and government?
No, like that fat fuck Michael Moore or any other liberals that bitch about the US. They all stay here, go figure. LOL
Didn't Micheal Moore do that in his health care documentary?
Democrats and republicans have a politician exchange and forgive union busters
Errr thanx. You are edging ever nearer to constructing and conjugating a full sentence !!! ~{;-)
per aspera ad astra ...
Your source, informationclearinghouse.info, looks more like a tabloid than a proper news source. I'm not sure you'll find adequately stated problems on that site. I suggest you broaden your source with some other websites.
Do you actually understand the idea, concept and notion of an 'Information CLEARING HOUSE' ?!!! Go "suggest" somewhere else, will you ?!! Do we know each other ?! lololol ...
verum ex absurdo ...
I used to be a big fan of informationclearinghouse.info until I realized it was a right wing conspiracy theory site. No, I don't believe we do know each other. Is you name Alex?
WTF can you ever possibly "realize" whilst you are constantly wearing your (x) as a hat ?!!! Is your wife's name Rehanna ?!! Does she actually know what you really get up to behind her back?!
You "used to be a big fan of " http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ , did you ? It hasn't changed its stance, purpose and function since inception so either you are lying that you ever followed it or you have seriously changed for the worse from the person you once were and more than likely, both !!
You & me - one day, TrashyScumBot, but for her sake if not your own, stop provoking me !
ad iudicium ...
What or who is a TrashyScumBot, and what or who is Rehanna? Are you insane? You sure write like someone who is. informationclearinghouse.info did change. It has become like a tabloid.
So who mentioned "Thrasy" (before your sly post factum edit) ?!!! Left the poor wifey in Bali, did you ?!! Are you now back to dating men again ?!
temet nosce ...
What are you babbling about? Do you always insult people on forums like this?
Wait, are you Alex White, the conspiracy theorist I met in Chicago during the Nato protest? You might remember me, you tried to convince me that the Elite were controlling world finance.
Yawn ... never been to Chicago .. too windy - a bit like you !
vale ...
Let's hope that as the American people wake up to these truths, their blind nationalism will transform into a real nationalism and their true love for their nation will inspire them to work towards returning their government and economic system to the people.
"What Ayn Rand Taught Paul Ryan" (Video) :
“I grew up reading Ayn Rand, and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.” -- U.S. Representative Paul Ryan.
Also, please see, "Paul Ryan prepares to lead, guided by Ayn Rand", by Michael Kinsley (Article) :
multum in parvo ...
I guess he didn't read much else.
Apparently he read a lot of 'Austrian Claptrap' - Mises et al, ad nauseum & committed some "of Rand's 'verses' to memory" accoring to Paul Ryan's brother, Tobin. I'll find you the links another time. Ryan is seen as some kind of scholar and 'economic theoretician' by the RepubliCons, lol.
verum ex absurdo ...
For an insight into a possible part of the "wake up", please see :
per aspera ad astra ...
Interesting. And, "First people need to get interested, then they need to get involved."
And then ... "e pluribus, unum" ?!
dum spiro, spero ...
Hmmm. Sounds good. LOL.
Some further information to help motivate the "wake up" and 'group coalescing':
"Don’t 30 Million Workers Deserve 1968 Wages ?", by Ralph Nader : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31530.htm &
http://www.timeforaraise.org/ .
e tenebris, lux ...
Great links. I love the title of that article by Nader. And, I often think that wages have not only not kept pace with general cost of living, but that the cost of living today also includes additional items, not previously a part of household living. For instance, every member of a family often has a cell phone today, the costs to purchase and maintain home computers did not exist in 1968, internet service and cable t.v. as well as IPods and video games, if you have children, were not expenses in the past. And, while none of these things are required for living, obviously, they have become basic to the American household and wages certainly have not kept pace with these additional expenses.
The expression of your utterly rational points and this comment exchange, would seem so threatening to some vested interests as to require the release & activation of a 'Trashy-down-voting-Bot' !
Apparently what you have clearly, rationally and simply stated is far less worthy of reading or reflection than comments by the 'troll-poster' "treasure" on this thread !!
LOLOLOL - best laugh of the day !!!
too funny for latin ...
Very interesting. Yes, quite threatening stuff I commented on. LOL !
Check out this article.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/06/09
What a great article! A bit of a rant, but he says everything a lot of us are feeling but can't articulate. I'm sure he slept well after writing it. LOL.
Its certainly how I'm feeling thats for sure.
Me too.
Indeed and perhaps you should consider censoring yourself so as not to frighten your fellow Americans & trying to make them ... wait for it .. Think For Themselves !!! What is you ? - A Communist !! LOL !
et ergo, favete linguis ...
Check out this article.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/06/09
"Broken Shards of My Heart : The US in Decline", by David Michael Green - the article to which you link is beautifully written and is as passionate a cris de coeur as I've read in quite some time. Thanx PK.
nil desperandum et ... ipsa scientia potestas est !!
Just trying to work the cell phones, internet service, cable service, IPods, computers, and maintenance of all of these objects into a workable American household budget. Oh, shame on me!
Oh how so Very Unpatriotic of you !!! What were you thinking ?!! "Shame" indeed !
pax et lux ...
LOL!
Hmmm.... strange upward spirals ! Thanx 'bw' !! Consider in your subtle mind that this forum (& many like it) is an avenue and medium for Fuller's "Ephemeralization" & a shared global consciousness for The 99% !!!
per aspera ad astra ...
Re. your gracious comment below, ~}~ommm~{~ .
Buckminster Fuller still has much to teach us yet +
Your deep insight resonated with me deeply. Thanx.
pax, amor et lux ...
Nice, : )
Pls see below ~*~
Given the subject of this article & with the thought of "Development Mode" (re Esoteric Forum Masthead) & Buckminster Fuller in our minds, consider - we are human beings on a human journey OR human beings on a spiritual journey OR Spiritual Beings beings on Human Journey in a 'bw' ...
Random bumpage without so much as a 'by your leave', so please excuse the cheeky co-option, lol !
pax, amor et lux ...
Thanks for your kind comment below. You do too, you know, you make the world and this forum a better place. And I love Fuller's theory of 'ephemeralization' or doing more with less. What a better world this would be if we could all do that. It sort of works in with flip's Chomsky stuff re: working less hours and being less materialistic. What is it, after-all, that we humans really want? Is it stuff? Or is it time to be with the ones we love?
Gee, I kinda like reading these old threads. Thanks for that. I think maybe we're spiritual beings on a human journey.
Re. above/below, weird that I can't answer you but I don't need to even if I do seem to be trying to ! lol !! Thanx for the bump & true sentiment share .. u hlp mk a 'bw' btw "bw" !!!
~}~ommmmmmm~{~
... pax, amor et lux ...