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Forum Post: 99% Votes against itself

Posted 1 year ago on June 10, 2012, 7:48 a.m. EST by bklynsboy (834)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A new kind of class warfare is happening where union workers, people with pensions and benefits like teachers and librarians are being vilified by other middle class workers like small businessmen and entrepreneurs. All this is orchestrated by Republicans to divide and conquer Democrats by convincing them too vote Republican.

But by declaring war on teachers, union laborers, and public sector employees, the well-heeled spinners behind the rise of Scott Walker have managed to make struggling Americans vote against their own best interests out of a sense of fear and envy. Struggling workers — and most comfortable middle-class workers — often to need an identifiable villain, someone who is holding them back from success, in order to vote Republican. If Republicans can present themselves as an enemy of that villain, they win. That’s what happened happened last night in Wisconsin.

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/06/whats_the_matter_with_wisconsin/singleton

108 Comments

108 Comments


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[-] 5 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

I see this ending badly. I'm with Verizon. They're currently trying to end our pensions, give us an inferior healthcare plan with 6k in deductibles, and take away a dozen other benefits that we currently have. The company is in no financial difficulty, by the way. They also like to send American jobs overseas. There is a percentage of the population that is not sympathetic to our current fight because they already had these benefits taken away from them or maybe never had them in the first place. What kind of screwy logic is that? I predict within 10 years no company will have to offer pensions, healthcare, sicktime, vacation or any other benefits because they will all be in collusion not to offer these things. Oh and don't think that they will raise your salary so that you can go buy the healthcare yourself or put away more money for your retirement. That ain't gonna happen.

[-] 9 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 1 year ago

you just hit the biggest phychological phenomona of the american people. People get this warped thinking that if I don't have those benefits why should he have them. That's the envy bug turned backwards. What people don't get is if you take away someone's benefits all your doing is eroding your own chance's of ever getting those benefits.

Instead the thinking should be well If I support this person right to those benefits then maybe one day I'll receive those benefits as well or even a portion there off.

There is a ripple affect going both directions. If benefits and pay start going down in one industry or area then a sliding affect occures where other industries start cutting thereby creating a downward spiral.

The flipside of that coin is holding on to those benys and pay has an overall upward push for the other employees of other companies.

The degradation of unions in this country has decimated the living wage in this country. THis is were the trickle down theory really works. tricking down or own wages and benefits.

One of the last greatest upward pushes is the minimium wage. When the minimium wage goes up it creates pressure to raise everyone's wage on the lower income level who are still above minimium but still poor.

If verison takes away your benefits they won't be transfered to me or anyone else, the money saved will just go into the shareholders pockets.

[-] 2 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 1 year ago

and that is how people are voting against themselves

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

People vote against themselves all the time. Come 2016 the democrats will probably once again choose the wrong D in the primaries. Why would anyone who despised the Bush era vote for a D that voted for so many of the policies like the patriot act and wanted to increase a war?

Go ahead and vote Obama again this year because Romney does suck.... just for the love of god don't make the Goldman Sachs mistake again in the primaries again in 2016.

I recommend never voting for an R, but be fucking careful about the D's you support. Some of them are corporate whores in disguise.

There's a big difference between a real Democrat like Kucinich, Sanders, or Grayson and a California style Republican democrat like Obama.

Kucinich was the only person in the 2008 primaries that tried to impeach Bush... yet everyone voted Obama.

Be careful who you vote for - Bipartisan support has funded the wars and deregulated wall street. That is a fact. HR 1540, HR 4310, HR 347, The Financial Modernization Act... The Republican JOBS Act that didn't create a single job and only further deregulated Wall Street even passed with Bipartisan Support.

We need real D's! They exist but a lot of people choose to listen to well payed for talking points on tv more than voting records.

How to sort the good from the bad

If they supported any of the following, You should not support them.

The Financial Modernization Act (which helped create the financial crisis)

The Republican Jobs Act (which will create another financial crisis)

The Patriot Act (which stole our 4th amendment)

The NDAA of 2012, without removing Section 1021 (which stole our 5th and 6th amendment)

The War in Iraq (which was based on fraud)

HR 4310 which prepares for war in Iran in sections 1221 and 1222

HR 347 - the anti-protest bill

The TARP bailouts (which gave billions to a fraudulent financial system that stole people's money and homes instead of creating a real solution and implementing regulations to prevent future problems)

Defense of Marriage Act (which is supported by bigots)

Bombing nations that didn't attack us (which is supported by warmongers)

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 1 year ago

ok I wasn't talking about voting for politians, nor was I preferencing one canidate or the other

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

It's a race to the bottom. Misery loves company.

[-] 1 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

Great post, you get it! Please help spread the word about what Verizon is trying to do to us.

[-] 4 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

Looks like strikes will have to be used. Management is doing well. Koch, big business and lobbyists want max. profits.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Your initial statement contains a misconception. The 99% is composed of individuals, they do not all feel themselves as a part of that group. People tend to vote for their own self interest first and foremost.

You are right though, the political parties, both of them, spend an inordinate amount of time demonizing some group or policy in an attempt to motivate voters through fear and self interest. The reason is, of course, that it works.

In the case of Wisconsin voters, even a significant number of union members, believed it wasn't unreasonable to have public employees pay a little into their pensions and for health insurance.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Your initial statement contains a misconception. The 99% is composed of individuals, they do not all feel themselves as a part of that group.

YET.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

I admire your optimism. You have a shot at winning the progressives over, as long as you're talking about working within the system and voting. With time, the same can possibly be said for some of the independents.

Do you really think you'll ever convince the conservatives? They see the problem as too much entitlement, too much power in the hands of unions. Wisconsin was lost because a good many union members voted for their own short term self interest. I hope you're right, but I don't see a majority ever voting altruistically.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

I am an Independent. Things are just too far out of control. I believe the economy will get worse and more people will wake up.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Looking at Wisconsin, I'm not as certain as you.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

if one has cuts in their mouth

I smoke and vote for a $1 a pack cigarette tax for cancer research

[-] 2 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 1 year ago

why the research is in, cigarettes cause cancer and the state is notorious for diverting taxes to the general budget inspite of the original intent of the tax hike

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I vote on words then

wrote in "NO WAR" for president

[-] 1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 1 year ago

YOU ARE NOT THE 99%!!! Actually 1.93% of the population makes above $250,000 a year. If you passed third grade math, you would realize it would rounded to 2%, just another major thing you missed. Also, over two thirds of the population doesn't like the ideas you preach, like nationalized healthcare and crapping on people's cars and rape. Real people work for a living, they don't like the idea of someone wanting even more of their hard-earned paycheck. Why can't you just get a job and make your own living?

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

Typical FOX bullshit blather from a rich prick wanting to keep his money and not give back to society that made him rich. You'll still die.

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 1 year ago

I am not rich and I actually watch Fox as much as I watch CNN, MSNBC, USA Today, Russia Today, and PJ Media. Do you really think I would be rich at $8 an hour? I have given over three hundred hours of community service by the time I was 15. How much did you give? You'll still die too. It just depends if you worked hard for your own living or made it harder for others to make their own living.

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

Your biography is irrelevant. Facts stand.

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 1 year ago

Funny how you can't argue against it.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 1 year ago

Well then, doesn't it make sense to support job creation WITHOUT government spending. http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/

Also see http://www.gallup.com/poll/149543/Americans-Say-Federal-Gov-Wastes-Half-Every-Dollar.aspx

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

The gov't MUST assist in job creation but both parties sign NAFTAS which ship jobs to overseas, for corp. profits and lobbying money.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 1 year ago

Lots of corporations don't have high profits.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/03/apple-and-samsung-claim-99-of-profits-among-top-mobile-phone-vendors/

Basically all phone companies make their products in the same place (they probably all use Foxconn) but Apple and Samsung are getting 99% of the profits among top mobile phone vendors. Five years ago it was Nokia with 60% of those profits.

The point, again, that simply making things overseas does not guarantee high profits. Those profits only arise when people are willing to buy things for more than what other competitors are selling a similar product for.

The accelerated work week would encourage people to work less hours and buy fewer brands which would reduce corporate profits and therefore the influence of money in politics.

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

Interesting ideas. Apple uses China labor because it's dirt cheap and govt. subsidized. We should stop our useless endless wars and redirect that money to help US industries create jobs and be competitive.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 1 year ago

It really is not that hard to figure out when you look deeper into the story.

I turns out that people are not mad at teachers and union workers. They are mad a union leadership and unions in general, especially in the public sector.

Many people over the past few recessionary years have not seen a raise. Some have seen pay cuts and furloughs. Many are paying 25-35% of their benefits they are seeing unions refusing to have teacher pay a tiny 3% of their benefits. They are also seeing many retire with 20 years of back sick pay which is ridiculous.

So in the end the people who have not had a raise are having their tax bills increased each year to pay for raises and benefits for public sector workers.

I have teachers in my family and have talked to others that would have accepted a pay freeze and paying 3% into their benefits. They understand what a recession is. IN the mean time the union is fighting hard and spending millions lobbying and campaigning against anyone who stands in their way.

People are not mad at the teachers and librarians. They are mad at the rules which were negotiated by the union leadership.

[-] 4 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

It's standard for firemen and cops to retire at full pension after 20 years. It's the bargain made for these people who can die on the job, to take the job. Union workers make shareholders and management very rich. Why shouldn't they get a fractional proportion?

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 1 year ago

It's standard for pro union folks to talk about firemen who put their lives on the line.

The problem is that the unions are more often out of touch with what the people they represent want. At least that is the case in NJ. Many teachers in several districts wanted a pay freeze to save their colleagues jobs but the unions ignored that and their colleagues were laid off.

By the way, our town has a volunteer fire department.

[-] 3 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

The latest accomplishment of the GOP, teas, conservs with their deep pockets and and obsession to destroy anything that costs them money including Unions and the country's rules, laws and regulations. It's all smoke and mirrors and PT Barnum, convincing the middle class that unions are the fault and evil. Unfortunately most get their "news" from FOX, and swallow the bullshit.

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 1 year ago

Not sure about PT Barnum and Fox however when it comes to education in NJ it is unions that stand in the way of what is best for our children.

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

What is best for your NJ Children?

[+] -4 points by shadzworth (-394) 1 year ago

You are a total propagandized Leftist Drone. Incapable of any individual,critical thinking only to spew the party bullshit and group think. All your presumptions are greatly flawed,all your preconceptions are just Leftist propaganda.....a total fail.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

You know it is usually the closed minded among us that go around accusing everyone else of suffering from what they hate about themselves. Besides who would take a person seriously that is named shadzworth. sounds like a silver spoon fed, pencil dick trust baby of a name to me. Fox news is the news source for the ignorant and miss informed and all the name calling in the world wont change that fact, sir shadzworth the third. lol

[+] -4 points by shadzworth (-394) 1 year ago

You were making a point about name calling by name calling?

LMAO.

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

Yeah, but at least my name calling is original and pointed. If you're going be an ass at least be original. Bullies like you, sir shadzworth, are fun to fuck with. I don't have to be consistent when I'm bulling a bully.

[-] -3 points by shadzworth (-394) 1 year ago

L-M-A-OFF................You couldn't bully a little girl with a shotgun,bloody ax and a pit bull. HA!!!

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[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 1 year ago

You must not understand that this country is going bankrupt. There is a 200 TRILLION dollar pension liability in this country. There isn't even 200 trillion dollars in existence! The fact that cities and states have promised people things that they can't afford is the reason that we're going to sink. It's not the faults of the workers, who wouldn't take a pension and benefits for a shit job that doesn't deserve it? I know I would. But the point is that the liabilities are unsustainable. End of story. There isn't any other way to look at the numbers. WE HAVE OVEREXTENDED OURSELVES.

Look at it this way: Our debt and liabilities are like a wound that's bleeding profusely. Raising the debt is like drinking blood to replenish what came out, without sewing up the wound. We don't need a bandaid, and drinking blood isn't going to sustain us. We are bleeding out.

Honestly, I personally don't think anything we do at this point even matters. We're so screwed we're pretty much going to go off the cliff regardless if we hit the brakes or not.

So whatever.

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

This country is being destroyed by its endless foreign interventions, nation building that fails and bottomless military budget. We spend as much as the rest of the world combined on military. We crumble literally as cuts everywhere are being made to feed the military industrial complex. No country on earth can conquer us yet we expad the military. That's why we're crumbling while China goes globally, trades in business everywhere without firing a shot, and will surpass us as we go broke.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

are we assuming people live forever ?

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 1 year ago

Did you even read my post?

[-] -2 points by linker (-241) 1 year ago

union teachers should be vilified - they are a group of thugs in sheeps clothing.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

Really, you are going to pick on teachers. You are such a scared little child. Be a man and stop picking on the least influential profession in the US. That is why I will never vote right, you all are a bunch of bullies eating the lunch of those who have no real pull in society. Any working class slob who goes after teachers needs to have his head examined and a quick, swift kick in the ass.

[-] 0 points by linker (-241) 1 year ago

I am picking on union teachers. the most protected bunch of losers on the planet. who cant compete in the workplace & hide behind union thuggery.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

Wow, you watch too much television and probably don't spend enough time at PTA meetings. You sound like a bad right winger parody. Have you ever compared a teacher's salary to a corporate manager or any manager for that matter? When you compare their college credits achieved, and the money they make, you will see that you are picking on the weakest of the two. And licking the boots of one, probably your boss. Who, I might add, makes more than that teacher you are bulling. For shame. As too teachers not wanting to compete, well, don't be stupid, who would want to take a job where you could be "assed out" with the fluctuation of the market? Only an idiot would WANT to compete in America, especially when you read her history. I don't know about you, but if I had to choose, private or public, I'd go public in a heart beat. It don't matter how much money you would give me in the private sector. I believe there is a reason why obesity and depression are huge in this nation, And it don't have nothing to do with the food we eat, But more to do with the stressful live styles we choose to embrace. Good luck maintaining your health and your high paying corporate career.

[-] -1 points by linker (-241) 1 year ago

hahahaha! a teacher is not at the same level as a corporate manager. that would be the Principal. college credits has nothing to do with it. you are in the academia bubble. results are what matters. let them compete in a free market like the rest of the free world. stop the protectionist bs.

[-] -3 points by shadzworth (-394) 1 year ago

" least influential profession in the US"

LMAO,...So you think teachers are the least influential? Then what the fuck are they there for? Look at you,you've been most extremely influenced by all the Leftist teachers that have indoctrinated your skull full of mush into the proud Progtard you are today.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

Wow, I know you are. but what am I? Next time you speak about indoctrination, take a good look in the mirror. You are not even a bully. You are a bully's tag along. That is worst because that means you let other, more influential people do your thinking for you. For shame, you silly putz. Going after teachers makes you a punk. Got that?

I know the economy might have been rough on you, but have a little class and stop picking on the least influential of the two parties. In other words, be a man and attack the ones with all the pull, after all they are the ones who profited while tanking the economy, not the teachers.

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

baaaaaa aaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa

[-] -3 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

It is not about public workers, it is about the 1%, millionaire union bosses bribing politicians with campaign contributions and taking payoffs in the form of wages and benefits for the union monopoly. A monopoly is not permitted in other commercial bargining.

[-] 4 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

millionaire union bosses? really? Name me a half dozen millionaire union bosses.

[-] 3 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

You certainly are one disingenuous person. You can put up all the links you want that say that some union leaders make 6 figures but that is meaningless. 6 figures could be 100k which is probably what is is in 99% of the cases. That's why the articles don't go into greater detail, because they know they are skewing the info in order to get certain people riled up. If Trumka is a millionaire,(and I'm not even saying he is)so what, that's one union leader VS 1,000 CEO's that are cutting benefits and sending American jobs overseas. Stop defending the indefensible!

[-] 5 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

"why deny it?"

Because you've posted 7 links now and still not shown me any millionaires! You've got a list of the top 10 unions in the country and most of the leaders look like they make 200k ,300k. Now let's look at Verizon last year. The outgoing CEO made 26 million and the incoming CEO made 23 million. That's 49 million towards the CEO in one year ! They're sending jobs overseas and trying to take away workers pensions and healthcare plans. Are you willing to say this is wrong or are you going to post more links that don't prove your point?

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Terence O’Sullivan has been president of the Laborers' International Union of North America for ten years. He makes $618,000 in salary and benefits. He is a millionaire several times over.

Guess what the average Union Laborer makes?: $ 35,000 (if you're lucky)

Terence make 17 times the average laborer, and Terence is supposed to be working for the laborers!

[-] 2 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

OK, I'm going to concede that this Terence dude who makes 600k a year has got to be a millionare, (unless he's terrible at handling money) The ratio has still got to be like 1000 to 1 of CEO millionaires VS union boss millionaires and the CEO's net worths have got to blow any union head millionaire worth one or two million right out of the water.. I would just really like you to do a little soul searching about the situation at Verizon and your defense of a 23 million dollar a year CEO of a prosperous company who is sending American jobs overseas and trying to take away pensions, healthcare plans and many other benefits from the employees that make the company successful.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

On the issue of out-sourcing:

I have a question for you. How much has US manufacturing decreased since 1980?

[-] 3 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

It's not just manufacturing. High tech jobs are being affected... how many banks have completely outsourced most of their IT work? Call Centers? Customer Service Departments? How many high tech jobs are being replaced by work visa abuse to pay foreigners at a lesser rate?

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Does out-sourcing help or hurt the banks?

If it helps then the CEOs are doing their job. If it hurts the business (long or short term) then the CEO gets fired. If the CEO does a lousy job and does not get fired it is time to fire the board.

[-] 4 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

I could give a fuck. It hurts the American Worker. Did the banks care if they took down the economy... No. And when CEO's did a bad job and got fired most CEO's were paid handsomely for their efforts, often leaving the position with golden handshakes and parachutes worth tens of millions. Does that type of severance help or hurt the average stockholder?

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

The severance is a drop in the bucket and is negotiated before the CEO is hired. The big shareholder loss comes when a CEO screws up.

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

I am not defending the CEO of Verizon. I don't know the man.

I am simply pointing out the goal.

The goal of Verizon (or any going concern) is to make money. That is their purpose. Getting them to do something different is like trying to get a tiger to eat green beans. The CEO can be sent to prison if it can be shown that he purposely mismanaged the corporation and lost money.

I don't begrudge the Verizon CEO his salary just like I don't begrudge big league ball-player pay. God bless em. I would be happy for them if they made more! But they are only getting paid what someone is willing to pay them.

On the other hand Gov can take as much money as they want from whomever they want, and it's legal!

[-] 9 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Talk about a screwed up set of values. When a soldier risks his life for the sake of his fellow soldiers and dies with the effort, we give him a piece of cheap metal and call him a 'hero'... when a fireman selflessly rushes into an inferno and saves a life, he gets his picture taken with the Mayor and maybe a certificate..... when a teacher inspires a child in class to love and appreciate the value of education and this changes that childs life forever, the teacher may receive a handwritten note of thanks from the grateful parents....

but if an athlete can put a ball in a hoop, a businessman guess the price of stock correctly, we throw buckets of money at them and praise them above all... they are the role models.

How fucked up is this society?

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

What do we value?

Football baby.

Americans watch 10.9 billion hours of football every year.

Is it a surprise that the players make so much money?

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/10/14/no-surprise-64-americans-watch-nfl-football-73-of-men-55-of-women/107308/

[-] 4 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Like I said...how fucked up is this society?

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

It may be a colossal waste of time but it's pretty harmless. They could all be out in their cars on Sunday afternoon slowing me down.

[-] 3 points by votasaurus (62) 1 year ago

LOL Fox News.

That's not real news. I can't trust that data.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

don't bother with those pages they aren't open to input

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

I really don't begrudge the union bosses one nickel of their salary, but it makes no sense to condemn the 1% and ignore the fact that union bosses swell their ranks.

[-] 3 points by votasaurus (62) 1 year ago

They're not "bosses" they're leaders. They are elected by the union body.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

How are the leaders nominated?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

but not likely the 0.1%

[-] -2 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Some are pretty close to the 0.1%.

Terence O’Sullivan has been president of the Laborers' International Union of North America for ten years. He makes $618,000 in salary and benefits.

Guess what the average Union Laborer makes?:

$ 35,000 (if you're lucky)

Terence make 17 times the average laborer, and Terence is supposed to be working for the laborers!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

better then the $15,000 or less on minimum wage

[-] -2 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

I don't begrudge the union laborer one penny of his pay. When the union works for the union member it does good work, but the union leadership often works for its own good.

I have a question for you: why does the union restrict union membership? Why do you have to "know somebody" to get into the union?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I heard the script writer union monkeys make 6 figures

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5691) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

That's the kind of job I wanted.

Writer's block's a bitch, though.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

screen play is the word I was looking for

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

That thought would never have occured to me.

[-] 3 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

You may not like union bosses but they are well paid like any CEOs but their job is the welfare of the members, not shareholder profits.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Are not union members share holders in the union? They invest with their dues and the union boss must make returns on their investment via pay and benefits. Just like any CEO.

The main difference is that the public union boss enjoys a monopoly and beholden politicians that control the people's money.

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

Yes. The union members want their interests and welfare provided. The boss ensures that. So what? Look what other CEOs are paid.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

I agree with you. The Union Boss and the corporate CEO are the same. They are both responsible for increasing the investment of their respective shareholders.

The main difference is that the public union boss enjoys a monopoly and beholden politicians that control the people's money.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The corp ceo has vastly more money than a union boss! And the union boss has an agenda that improves the lives and conditions of American workers. The corp ceo only wants to improve profits. The corp ceo will do everything to cut pay, benefits, jobs of the american workers for profit. While the union boss will do everything to help the American worker. They are vastly different! To suggest the opposite is a fallacy and only serves to confuse the American people and minimize the damage that corp ceos are willing to perpetrate for their march to more profits.

[-] -1 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

What are average salaries for US CEOs and Union Presidents?

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Who knows. I know that ceos get vastly more! And I know that there are vastly more ceos than union leaders. It is a false comparison. A distraction from issues that really matter. What does it matter how much union leaders make, they advocate for workers rights ceos work to cut workers rights, pay, and benefits. Period.

[-] 3 points by myows (133) 1 year ago

100% correct. These "union leaders are also part of the 1%" type arguments are such bullshit it's not even funny. Here's one example off the top of my head --- you've got the ex Google CEO who made something like 101 millions dollars in a single year as his company uses a couple of loopholes to avoid paying 60 billion dollars in US taxes. Here are the links

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-04-20/eric-schmidt-google-chairman-pay/54446032/1

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

Now go ahead and try to tell me union heads who make 300k a year and are representing middle class Americans are in the same league as these CEO's.

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

nicely said.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 1 year ago

as his company uses a couple of loopholes to avoid paying 60 billion dollars in US taxes.

That's the total for all corporations. It was also invented by Apple, which along with Samsung are capturing 99% of the profits among top mobile phone vendors.

If you own any Apple products, or your friends own Apple products, please don't complain about corporate profits.

The article also neglects to mention Google's effective tax rate on profits in the US.

[+] -5 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

If no one knows how can you say that ceos get vastly more?

Another question: if union bosses are so interested in worker rights why do you have to "know somebody" to get into the union? Why do they discriminate? What happened to the rights of the worker denied union membership?

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

AAAAAHHHHH! Yeah it is hard to get into unions. knowing someone already there is great. many unions discriminate against minorities. firefighters in ny. It goes way back. But clearly if people are trying to get in it must be good. If white people are keeping minorities out it must be good. No? you can understand that simple logic I hope. Unions and their leaders advocate for workers rights. Period. The problems that exist in unions exist in every organization in america. That doesn't mean you throw it out. You seek to improve it as we are trying to do in ny with the firefighters. Should we end all corporations because of those that engage in crimes. Of course not. Listen ceos are supposed to cut costs (jobs,wages benefits) to improve profit. IT IS what they are expected to do.! Unions are expected to advocate for the worker. It is simple. Obvious. Do you disagree?. Must you continue to distract from these simple facts.

[+] -4 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Why does the AMA make it difficult to become an MD?

For the same reason that unions restrict memebership. Racism is just incidental. The real reason is that unions want to limit supply. What happens to the price of a thing when it is in limited supply?

I agree that union bosses advocate for workers, but it is a very small and elite group of workers.

[-] 5 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

racism is incidental"? Please! Perhaps you have never experienced it. I assure you the white racists in this country have had a free ride on the backs of native americans, african americans, latin americans. It is profound and most certainly not "incidental". it is at the center of much of our problems.!

[+] -4 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Yes, incidental. While the union bosses may be racists their primary motivation is money.

Racism is at the center of much of our problems? What % of black Americans consider racism as a big problem in the US? What was that % in 1995?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/postpoll011709.html

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I guess you have settled the race issue. The problem is not inferior schools, or unfair arrests targeting minorities, it isn't corps/unions excluding minorities, it is the minority preoccupation with racism. Seems more like a clever way to absolve racists from any responsibility in keeping minorities in poverty and misery. It is clearly a simple way to "blame the victim". Very suburban. Are you a sub urbanite?

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Why do you disrespect the opinions of Black Americans? They are the victims and have determined that racism is not big problem in their lives and its effect is diminishing.

What do black Americans believe is the greatest threat in their lives? Ready for a real dose of reality? They believe that the threat comes from one of their own:

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-23/us/new.york.billboard_1_abortion-rates-anti-abortion-group-reproductive-health?_s=PM:US

[-] 4 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

%? Why? Is some racism ok? If only 50% see racism as a problem is that ok? Which % is acceptable? Offensive.!

[+] -4 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

If fewer than 26% of the targets of racism perceive it as a big problem (half of the % in 1995) then the problem is shrinking and can hardly qualify as the center of much of our problems.

It is likely that the constant preoccupation with the issue is the greater problem.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Please. Maybe you are an apologist for racists. Who cares? Your opinions seem to be clouded in meaningless numbers and studies. It's boring.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I haven't disrespected anyone. To cite some ridiculous study to state that racism is not a problem cause some percent of minority doesn't believe it is? That is disrespectful. I see racism everyday. I've lived through it. Please keep your numbers to yourself. these issues are bigger than numbers.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 1 year ago

Why do you disrespect the opinions of Black Americans? Is this an example of the racism that you see everyday?

Or maybe it is just your opinion? Maybe it is not racism? Could be that what you see everyday is clouded by your preoccupation with the issue.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

right

and money grows on loan interest

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

Matt, does the counter go over 10,000 comments?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

well 2^10 ~ 1000 so 2^16 ~ 64,000 so 2 bytes ought to cover it

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 1 year ago

good luck