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Forum Post: 99 Percent as the fourth branch of Government.

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 23, 2012, 1:56 p.m. EST by 99PercentFriendly (31)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We need a new branch of government that has the authority and the means to look after the wellbeing and welfare of the people and their environment. One that can look after the interest of the average working people and that can protect the poor, the weak, and the helpless amongst us.

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16 Comments

16 Comments


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[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Scroll down to the diagram 'Government 2.0' on this page -

http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

This type of government gives oversight power to the people - over all of the other branches. Cheers!

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Look at this link.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CDOC-110hdoc49/pdf/CDOC-110hdoc49.pdf

This is the current federal legislative process. This leads to some questions.

1) Where in this current process, which is quite complex, lengthy, and time-consuming, would Direct Democracy be inserted?

2) Would DD be used at the beginning, end, or throughout the process? If throughout, how would the people keep up with each stage of the process so that when the time comes for their input they can make informed and intelligent decisions?

3) By what quorum of votes will DD decide to agree or disagree with the process? By this I mean shall 2/3 or 3/4 pass or reject the bill at X point in the process?

There are a LOT of things to consider when seriously considering bringing DD into the current process. I would like to know some of your thoughts about how it would be implemented successfully given the already complex process that exists.

Thanks.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Hi Underdog! Thanks for your questions, and I'll do my best to express my opinion. The reason I say my opinion, is because no one knows what 'our' version of a direct democracy would look like. It would evolve and change as we see fit over time. To understand the version that I support, you must read:

Common sense 3.1 is a call to action to address the problems of the nation. http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

*Important Note: (It's very important to read the entire document or it will do you very little good.)

The second bill of rights are the minimum baseline expectations and goals for Revolution 2.0. http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_billofrights.aspx

The Declaration of Dissolution and Termination (DDT) is a formal and legal declaration of grievances prepared by the people of the United States to be served to the government of the Untied States. The declaration is also a formal and legal order by the people to the government of the United States to cease and desist specific government operations in accordance with instructions laid down by the Execution of Dissolution and Termination. http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Intro_DT.aspx

The Execution of Dissolution and Termination (EDT) is the formal process and rules for dissolving parts or all of the old government and then terminating the old government after the new government has been fully implemented. http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Execution.aspx

Basically what common sense 3.1 does, it adds two new branches of government. -

    New Design for Government (Government 2.0)

A new branch of Government (The Fifth Branch)

How can we redefine ourselves and reclaim our sanity and free existence. First, we must take back our government and that which belongs to no one and everyone. We have the technology to build an over arching new branch of government that supersedes all other branches. This branch will become the new executive branch. The old executive branch will become the administrative branch. The Internet will allow us (the people) to control, monitor and directly intercede or override any function or operation that the people deem unnecessary and in real time not years or decades. This is known as a Direct Demcracy. This is how you set the people free from government, big business and the banks. It is the most important step we have to take. The stakes are too high. There will be no higher authority to assert themselves over the will of the people. This means the people will finally be in charge, in control and responsible. No longer will the people be forced to fight wars they don't want to fight. No longer will the people be ignored by government or business because the people will be the true masters of government and themselves. NOT BIG BUSINESS, NOT the BANKS, NOT POLITICIANS or ANYONE ELSE...

A second new branch of Government (The Fourth Branch)

The fourth branch will be driven by technology and technologist. The people will need access to real information based on facts, figures, reason and most importantly science. The new technology branch will guide technology policy and direction for rebuilding our country on a sound technical footing and science. There is no place for politics or judication in science and technology. Politicians and judges lack the knowledge and expertise to make decisions and or policy regarding the application and use of science and technology. This is total non-sense, a waste of time, money and resources. And it has nothing to do with "Common Sense". As you learn more, you will also learn eventually, there will no longer be a need for politicians, politics or even political parties. Politics and political parties are limitations of the past. With real information at our fingertips, we will be able to make our own decisions, while we delegate less important and administrative decisions to politicians.

So to answer questions:

1) A direct democracy would allow us (the people) to control, monitor and directly intercede or override any function or operation that the people deem unnecessary. The people would have the ability to veto bills and laws that do not make sense. 2) IMO, DD would have to wait until a controversial bill was passed by Congress or the president, before was vetoed. A good example might be NDAA or war. 3) The quorum of votes will be decided by the people. In my opinion, 51% is the majority and should be honored. 2/3 or 3/4 disenfranchises the majority.

In order to implement a direct democracy; we would need at least the majority of Americans to want it; sign the Declaration of Dissolution and Termination; and to serve these papers to our government by essentially firing them. Please understand that direct democracy is an upgrade to our current form of democracy; it builds on what we already have. It is not a complete gut and rebuild. What attracts me to this idea that it eliminates protests, civil war, violence, arrests and martial law. The majority simply have to sign it and serve them. BTW- here's a link to the V2 that Osixs offers as a platform for us to vote on:

http://osixs.org/V2_Menu_V2.aspx

“The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history - whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by the small elite." - Thomas Jefferson -

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Wow! You've given me a lot to read/digest. It will take me some time, but let me leave you with these thoughts in the meantime.

If the people are collectively intelligent enough and informed enough then DD, in theory, will work. If they aren't, then it won't. So the question really comes down to whether or not people can spend enough time keeping up with the issues and contributing good voting decisions to make DD a success. Unfortunately, I think you'll find that most will either (a) not have the time or (b) choose not to participate. So, in the end, DD will likely come down to a small minority making decisions just like today...something that defeats the very purpose of DD. If only a small percentage of people participate in the current voting process, which requires nowhere near the time/effort that DD does, what could one expect of their participation in DD?

So now you've given me Common Sense 3.1 to read....I'll try to get back with you.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Here's a suggestion. Go to this site ( http://www.congress.org/ ) and register to get a weekly email of what your representative and 2 senators voted on, details about the bills; how they voted; if it passed, etc. It's free. I get one a week, and most of the time, it's general congressional boring business that I have no issues with. Occasionally, there are ones' like NDAA, patriot act, 30,000 drones in the sky, war, bank bailouts, etc, that I flip out on and call my rep. They only take up a few issues a week.Under a DD, you could be issued the same type of report, take 15 - 20 min to review the bills and how your reps voted; and if you strongly disagree with any, you could cast 1 vote to veto. Most bills will pass - It's the unreasonable ones that will get kicked out. This site could serve as a simulation.

You speak of people that choose not to participate. Under the present system, you have roughly 50% participation in general elections. I contend that the main reason the other 50% don't vote is because they think their vote doesn't count. They think the system is rigged or broken. Under a DD, people may find that their direct vote is more appealing. I think most will find it empowering. I think it would renew patriotism. In an election, it would be popular vote - no voting for electoral college. You must enable everyone to vote - But you can't make anyone vote.

National Voter Turnout in Federal Elections: 1960–2010 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html

I didn't mean to through all of that info at you ........ I sure didn't read it all at one time. It is a lot to digest, but once done, the possibilities and concept become clear. I hope you like it - but if not, thanx for the discussion.

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. - Thomas Jefferson

Cheers :)

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Good discussion! Some thoughts/questions:

Do you ever question the source of the weekly email for factual and unbiased reporting? Do you just accept at face-value what it says? Bottom Line - is it truly trustworthy? If all of it is just a record of how the Reps voted, I guess it's probably trustworthy. If it gets into any details beyond that or offers up opinions as to what the voting actually means then I would be suspicious. Guess I would have to read a few of these emails to get the flavor of it. As you can tell, I am quite suspicious of our government, it's infiltration by the Corporatocracy, and any attempts to manipulate mass opinion --- even up to and including governmental efforts at that.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

I am quite suspicious of our government too! Here's how http://www.congress.org describes itself:

About Congress.org

Congress.org is a nonpartisan news and information Web site devoted to encouraging civic participation. Our mission is to provide information about public policy issues of the day and tips on effective advocacy so that citizens can make their voices heard. The heart of Congress.org is an award-winning software program that makes it easy for citizens to write their elected officials. Our software assures that your letter will be delivered directly to the decision-makers whose opinions you hope to influence.

Congress.org is a project of the CQ-Roll Call Group, the largest news organization on Capitol Hill. Congress.org is powered by CQ-Roll Call affiliates Capitol Advantage and Knowlegis — private, nonpartisan companies that specialize in facilitating civic involvement.

I've never received bad information from them and have used their software to contact my reps which they have replied to; however more often than not, I just contact my reps directly or not at all ........... because they really don't care what my opinion is.

I mainly use them to track what congress is up to and how my reps voted. I have found this info to be trustworthy. I think they are more about getting people involved rather than pushing an agenda. - Cheers

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Ok, thanks. I'll try to check it out.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

The heart of Congress.org is an award-winning software program that makes it easy for citizens to write their elected officials. Our software assures that your letter will be delivered directly to the decision-makers whose opinions you hope to influence.

I thought Posting Publicly © already has that patent

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

I don't know. Maybe they're affiliated with them or they bought the patent. I just grabbed their mission statement from their 'about' page and posted it. - Cheers

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

This is called "the Fourth Estate", it's been recognized, you can find it on wikipedia. The question is how to use the Internet to create it, in it's ideal.

[-] 1 points by jart (1252) from New York, NY 2 years ago

How about no government?

[-] 1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

"Anarchy is Communalism in its purest form" - emma goldman

The dream of no government is like a sci-fi utopia, ... sadly most citizens of the US spend their lives in gas lines and begging for food working for the man.

The enlightenment that you speak, that free people can only be free in absence of a government is simply too profound for the 99% to comprehend or even for 9%.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

---> One that can look after the interest of the average working people and that can protect the poor, the weak, and the helpless amongst us.

we can do all that & beat them with their own game ...

we need a "Social Reserve Bank" ... much easier to implement

http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-need-to-create-our-own-bank/

[-] 0 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Let's ... see WHO IS GOING TO PAY?

Read the Federalist Papers, ... Jefferson talked the same shit 'power of the people', and Hamilton interrupted and asked "But who is going to pay and control??", ... and to that Jefferson responded, ... "Why the rich white men of course", ...

You can all talk of the 4th estate until BUSH/OBAMA hell freezes over, ... but MONEY only comes from those that OWN this country.

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[-] -1 points by FreeDiscussion5 (12) 2 years ago

Get a job.