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Forum Post: We have the PERFECT OPPORTUNITY to start our own "Social Reserve Bank" ... right now ....

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 2, 2012, 9:58 a.m. EST by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Existing Banking System has abused and abandoned America...

no-one will argue that.... We have the PERFECT OPPORTUNITY to start our own "Social Reserve Bank"... right now ....

What would it look like ? ... here's my first draft take of it ...


Why is it that much of today’s corporations, government bodies, court systems, etc. so in-festered with illegal and selfish activities? Is it simply greed? Or could some survival be involved?

We have many problems ahead, and the primary one is job opportunity.. Do we really need 10′s of 1000′s of Health care managers telling our doctors and medical staff what they can or cannot do?… adding trillions to our healthcare costs? … When the Democrats held Congress, they wanted to centralize Healthcare, they had the votes, Obama stopped it… why?… He implied.. I am not going to put another 14% of the population out of work in this recession…

We have also intentionally created a disposable economy… we design built-in failure… so demand replenishes itself… creating mountains of trash… Is that solely for big profits… or can it also be for survival?

Why did we create the biggest building boom in the history of the country when we knew it would eventually collapse? All for jobs… Now granted, Greed plays a big part… as does crime…

How do we fix it?

Change the government?.. yes I agree… replace them all… but then what? We need to advance… We need to be the government….We need to change what we consider valuable… And when we have done that we need to expand it such that there is no need…

Personally I agree with the ideology of the benefits of capitalistic free-enterprise… how-ever I also see the failures of it…

I also agree the ideology of the benefits of common and shared property and resources… and also see the failures of it…

Do we compromise? …Seems a bit unworthy of a People who put men on the moon… I know we can do better…

Let’s think of the opposing Ideologies… the dreams… One reaches for Individual Freedom & Economic Opportunity … while the other reaches for Economic Freedom & Individual Opportunity …

Why do they need to be different, why one or the other? I think we should reach for it all…

Up to this point in time… most everything in a capitalistic system evolves around “economic wealth”….

Is Art not a wealth? Is Knowledge not wealth? Is Health not wealth?..

It is argued that wealth is created when we do labor to transform something worthless into something useful, into something that can be later traded…

Teaching a child to read is also preforming labor… is also useful… is worth something… it is wealth… how-ever it cannot be traded as a commodity… not an economic wealth… but it is still wealth…

Why do we need to evaluate these non-economic Wealth’s to economic realm ? Seriously, Economic Wealth is merely economic… the buying, selling, trading of crap….

Designed to turn into trash once paid for… Designed to fill our Seas with Garbage… Can we not do better than this? …

Our concept of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) does not measure health, happiness, education, or civic participation.* Where is Gross Domestic Wealth (GDW) ?… We need an advancement…

We have an opportunity to expand wealth beyond mere economic terms, and therefore we have an opportunity to expand currency. Why is revenue contribution based solely on economic income? What does one’s economic income have to do with cost or contribution to society?

Or a corporation’s cost or contribution to society?

Would not it be more accurate to base revenue contribution or incentives on provided jobs? That’s what we really need…

Would not it be more accurate to base revenue contribution or incentives on provided good health? That’s what we really need…

Why do we all need to work in factories? Soon robots will do that all anyway…

Why can’t we paint pictures, write books, invent and discover new vaccines, research and learn whatever we want to..?

In simpler times… everyone had a slot they could fill… there was a need for everyone to participate… everyone had opportunity & purpose…

technology & efficency is changing the old ways…. as new technology is doing our work for us… it is also forcing us to evolve … we need to learn to share, to be benevolent…. to demand equal opportunity, participation and health for all…

a poor consumer makes a poor consumer…

why are even the wealthiest companies worried ? .. because their customer base is disappearing … and they know it… we need to evolve, we need to advance… we need to get enlightened…

the war machine continues to advance… why ?… I can not think of a better business model… build products that blow up… products that immediately need to be replaced… is that too far fetched ? … I mean really.. how many different ways do we need to invent to kill each-other ? … it’s all about cashflow.. economic exchange …

Is it simply greed ? … or is it survival…. trying anything to keep the system going ?

Expansion of governmental positions… Expansion of Legal positions and new Laws on top of new Laws… visits to multiple Medical Specialists, simply to treat a common cold… All for survivial… trying anything to keep the system going… trying anything to keep people employeed…

the answer is truly simple… we need a larger consumer base…. we need a healthy consumer base…. we need to create new opportunity… we need to create new resource… we need to invest in people…we need to invest in culture… we need to invest in that what machines cannot replace ….

We need to reach beyond mere economic wealth… we need a Renaissance…

Is Articulation not wealth?.. Is Integrity & Pride not wealth?.. Is Spare time not wealth?..

If an enterprise creates new jobs… creates new consumers… how is that not as “importent” as providing revenue ? … how is that not as “valuble” as providing revenue ? how is that not adding wealth to the society?

If an enterprise destroys jobs… how is that not removing wealth from society?

Free enterprise and competition does work… and works very well to keep economic exchange moving… however, in our modern world it is not enough… We need not replace it.. We need to build on it..

If we are going to solve these things… we need it all … why dismantle or replace anything that works ?

Why become distructionists ?…that leads to little gain…

The economic wealth based system works, it has worked very well for many, many years… let it continue… but let’s not allow it’s institution to deprive us of additional systems waiting for discovery…

Privatise Prisons ? … so we want to create an incentive for more unjust laws to be written… so more can be broken.. to expand the market of buying and selling people’s freedom ?…

Privatise education ?… higher education is privatised … Is it working for the masses? .. many have multiple degrees and little hope for jobs… personnaly I believe privatising education is a promising idea… but not for economic profit… we need something new…

We speak often of “sharing the wealth”… the current economic wealth based system’s do that… they have stock holders they share wealth with… and that is good… it’s bolsters the economy with healthy consumers… but it’s not enough…

Feable attempts to keep people surviving thru unenployment compensation helps… but what does it really accomplish? Is that what we want… a new social class that sits around and watches tv all day?…

We bail out the big banks, but not the once employed consumers… where will that lead?… just postponing the collapse….the banks are too frightened to invest in unsure development…

we need more… we need to invent new opportunity…

The exodus of the church from the impoverished communities…is but another example of a failing system..

The philanthropy dilema … we are losing worthy solutions because of bottom-line profits … many benevolent inventions, discoveries & research programs do not get funded because of promise of little profit margins… and in economic down-turns there is less and less charitable resource…

What if we elevate what “share the wealth” means ? What if we “share the wealth” by allowing more wealth’s into the picture ? .. providing more transactional systems… more exchange, more currency in circulation… we will see an increase of healthy consumers…

What if we had a “Social Wealth”… and we treated it differently …. not as tax payer subsidised “do good” programs… but new additional systems with capitalistic incentives and gains?

What if Social Wealth enterprises could borrow from the FED at the same rates the banks do? … or even at lessor rates…

Would new Social Wealth enterprise not create new consumers? … supporting not only the social based economy but also the economic profit based economy alike? …

How would we do it?…

Could we not have a “Gross Social Product”, a GSP … based on how much currency has been added into the economy through Social Wealth enterprise ?…

Of course we can… why mix tangible and intangible product ?… or tangible and intangible wealth ?….

Why tax the tangible wealth with the intangible needs ?…

Why put the burden of supporting needed social programs onto the economic wealth producers when social wealth producers can create wealth also ?…

We can make the “intangible needs” an industry.. a self-sustaining and profitable industry… we simply need to provide the venue… the resource to allow it to happen..

“The mechanics of the Occupation of Social Wealth” is coming soon…

NOTE: change "economic wealth's" to "material" or something

112 Comments

112 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Thrive (29) 2 years ago

The people's bank, the people's tv network, the people's government, the people's human rights coalition, the people's school's, the people's healthcare system...... we have so much more power than we think we have, and the ruling elite are very afraid that we will fully understand just how powerful we are. They will do their utmost to infiltrate OWS in every conceivable area to reinforce the mentality that we are not intelligent enough, organized enough, or active enough to pull this off. Don't listen to them! When they see that this tactic is not working they will move on to provocateurs to make sure OWS becomes violent. We should make sure that any protester who gets violent gets identified and kicked out of OWS immediately so that all other protesters understand that violence will not be tolerated. That way we are more guaranteed to know when there are provocateurs present.

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

Very good idea!

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[-] 3 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

oh oh oh, i was thinking about that yesterday on the way home. the peoples bank!

[-] 2 points by Quark (236) 2 years ago

Starting a bank takes expensive insurance to get even started. I love this idea but how can we get around the insurance?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Hi Quark, good question...

I believe that if we think Big... and go after a fed level bank... all those things get passed thru... no?

a good read,

updated: http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

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[-] 2 points by mvjobless (370) 2 years ago

What might be better is if every state created a state bank. As far as creating a national bank, probably every obstacle possible would be thrown at that idea by the people who do have money to stop it. And how do you convince all the people with pension funds and all the rest to divest from the too big to fail. It is stunning to me however that people continue to trust the big banks.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yeah... that's why I posted the http://banknd.nd.gov/ link... but I do think that Occupy is big enough... that we can get more

[-] 2 points by mvjobless (370) 2 years ago

What would have been nice was if OWS could have used that 500K they had back in November last year to create a campaign to publicize this kind of effort instead of funding the endless general assemblies where people talk about everything that's wrong ad nauseum and then nothing gets done. This reminds me of our Congress in DC. If there are any funds left OWS should consider this effort to start new banks, state by state. I don't know how hard it would be to get licensed, don't know how it works, but there must be some disenfranchised bankers in this lot that could use their expertise. If everyone suddenly took all their deposits, pensions, 401'ks and every other financial product from the big banks, that would be an awesome and significant action, almost as good as a national strike.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by mvjobless (370) 2 years ago

yes, I did see it. he sounds like just the kind of person this effort needs. but it also looks, according to his hunch, that the big banks might try to squash this public bank idea. It'll be a fight for sure. Will need lots of support, petition sounds good. But what's next after petition? Have the public bank question on the ballot for the public to vote on it at election time?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

if we go for the "Social Reserve Bank" ... we can skip all the chaos

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Brad, I have been reading this thread about central vs. non-centralized banks, and a thought just occurred to me. How could the Internet model be applied to a banking model? I ask this, only because nobody "owns" the Internet. Since nobody owns it, nobody can buy it. This is a fundamental problem I think with banking. If it is owned by someone, someone else can buy it up and ultimately control it. That is exactly why all of the international bankers and the rest of the power-elite own the world today. In setting up your People's Bank, is there a way that it could be kept free of corruption and ownership by the power-elite by design, in that none could ever own it and, thus, control it?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

that's a Very good idea UD.... currently I'm trying to understand the accountable details needed... but your concept is definitely worth pursuing .... thanks ;)

[-] 1 points by mvjobless (370) 2 years ago

How will a license be gotten from the authorities?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

good question....I don't know yet... we need some experts here.... I believe we need to first identify and detail every aspect of the mechanics or architecture of it ... gain massive support... a the rest should fall in our laps

[-] 1 points by mvjobless (370) 2 years ago

All should be ready for a battle royale on getting licensed, just remember how the big banks swooped in and gobbled up bear stearns, lehmans and merrill lynch to name a few, to consolidate their power and of course oodles of money. Gotta think of a way to outsmart these guys.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

go after a fed level bank ... another fed... ie a Social Reserve Bank ... not in competition with the fed... because we are interested in social profits as opposed to economic ones....

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[-] 1 points by mvjobless (370) 2 years ago

no, but I'll have a look now.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

oh... I don't think we need any money to publicize any of it... we simply need to put together a concise accurate plan that details everything... and the blogs will publicize it for us... we just need to get it organized and complete... ;)

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[-] 2 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

this may be just what occupy needs to take back control of our country, like many of our forefathers have said, to enslave the country you only need to control their money. Let us open a bank for the people, and the benefits of fractional banking we the people can manipulate in favor of we the people, for example, we can always offer a lower home mortgage rate than the rest of the banks, and this is how we can get the rest of the people onboard.

[-] 1 points by georgeorwell84 (15) from Montgomery, NJ 2 years ago

What if you loaned money and the borrower could not repay it? Would you foreclose? If you allow people to default, you would very quickly be backrupt. Everything looks good until people stop paying.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

well if the SRB (social reserve bank) is not so concerned with economic profit (anymore than it needs to pay for itself)... but more concerned with social capital profits... then we should not be interested in competing with the FED related economic profit business... that competition would in effect actually reduce jobs or already existing profits in the system... so we should not be financing the private purchase of homes...

this is all about creating new opportunities that are being ignored by the economic profit making industries....

as far as providing housing for the impoverished who otherwise could not not qualify in the competitive market... I suggest we provide low interest financing... and when they default... we convert it to a rental status, temporarily until they can catch up... if someone has a better way... chime in.. ;)

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[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

the fact is banks never loaned any money, they consume more of their money on paying for their buildings, all they did was manufacture money on their books, called fractional banking. if we did it we would be arrested. u see if they have 100,000 deposited they could reloan that 100,000 out on paper 9 times, creating a 900,000 of wealth for themselves, so why should they get our homes if we default? Answer me this honestly.

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[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I like it ;)

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[-] 2 points by ohmygoodness (158) 2 years ago

Gross National Happiness a metric coined in the tiny Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan.

The assessment of gross national happiness (was designed in an attempt to define an indicator that measures quality of life or social progress in more holistic and psychological terms than only the economic indicator of gross domestic product (GDP).

google for more information

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Hi goodness ;) ... yeah I saw you posted that before .. I like it ...

we really can do something along these lines.. no ? .... and no better time... the people would support it....

also maybe see ....

worth exploring...

http://banknd.nd.gov/

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/03/how-nation%E2%80%99s-only-state-owned-bank-became-envy-wall-street....

oh... and Legatum had much similar years ago... I'll look

[-] 1 points by ohmygoodness (158) 2 years ago

Thank you for the information on Legatum.

[-] 1 points by Roundtree (37) 2 years ago

The term "Bank" isn't what you're looking for. The debt bias tax code, rewards debt oriented business - "banks". Banks create debt - it's their business. The Interest paid is only after debt is sold. Banks don't work - the incentive for risky debt is too great to stop them, and the COST to society is too great.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

ummm.... I got mixed opinions here ... Banks don't work for the majority of the people... I agree ...

but I also believe that banks work better than any else we have for business development, incentive building & global distribution ... I do believe we need more... additional systems... the current banking system does appear to be having problems....

[-] 1 points by Roundtree (37) 2 years ago

You've got half of the picture - business don't needs banks - they don't create wealth, they create debt. Business development means only one thing: SALES. Look at the folks at WAG - over 100 years of debt free business - no banks, no debt, organic growth all the way. Promote organic growth - look, Venture Capitol and banking only synthesize business - they don't create the actual performance of business; and they are not in the business of doing so - if their loans don't work, they pull the note and own the business and sell the assets to anyone of the vampires waiting in line - that's their business. Instead of banking, put your money where your mouth is: deposit it into your local farm or whatever local successful business in near you - invest local - bypass the banking system all together.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I can see that... investing local ...

but for a small business to raise working capital... it's needs a source... and often a bank is the easiest route...

I once paid 100% for a 30 day loan... so I could buy materials in bulk... and was happy to do so... it saved me $4000.... if I had access to a knowledgeable bank it might have been 15% annual tops ...

further imo... the banking industry... is an industry... part of our economy... if we removed it... how many more would unemployed ? ...

we really are fighting the problem of providing jobs in this modern world ...

[-] 2 points by Roundtree (37) 2 years ago

Brad, True: many jobs and projects depend on the leverage of the bank loan - I don't have a solution - and I'm glad you got lucky, or rather, are business savvy. Lending is tricky business - and I don't think it should be the base of our economy.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

---> Lending is tricky business - and I don't think it should be the base of our economy.

yeah, but appears to be the biggest base right now... we do have to fix that... otherwise the banks will find their only consumers are the banks themselves ... which I doubt will last long...

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[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

$850,000 !!!! ...tell them I'll do it for half that .. ;)

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

ok...now link fixed ;)

[-] 1 points by Roundtree (37) 2 years ago

Ah, Richard, you delicate flower. Have you come for a cuddle and to apologize?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Feable attempts to keep people surviving thru unenployment compensation helps… but what does it really accomplish? Is that what we want… a new social class that sits around and watches tv all day?…

who's watching TV ?

TV broadcast was digitized to create wireless internet

and the old tube don't work no more

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I'm with ya Matt... ;)

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

a large amount of older people watch TV constantly and vote

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

ok...ok... got the point... I'll fix it up... ;)

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

from : Jim Harris:: Occupy Davos?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jim-harris/world-economic-forum-davos_b_1236980.html?ref=canada

".....Not to be Completely Pessimistic There are reasons for hope. From one survey: A staggering 92 per cent of millennials (those born after 1981) believe that a company's purpose should be measured by social purpose not just profit. This contrasts starkly with CEOs who believe that profit maximization is the goal of business....."

all the more reason a "Social Reserve Bank" could work....

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[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

an interesting related post from Scott Baker, here ; http://www.nycga.net/members/scottbaker/activity/82823

scott baker posted an update 2 hours, 9 minutes ago

"....Hello, I admit to being inactive here lately, but I am a member of the Public Banking Institute, and coordinator for New York. Please see our petition here: http://www.change.org/petitions/support-a-public-state-bank-for-new-york-state and sign if you want a Public State Bank for New York to support the People! This would be modeled after the Bank of North Dakota, where unemployment and foreclosures are both < 4% and there hasn't been a community bank failure in 10 years. ND is booming, but it's not just the oil/NG. We could do the same – use taxpayer agency money, already collected, to fund a bank, invest in state needs, not overseas, in options, shorts etc (it's all in the CAFRs), and not have to borrow back money, at interest, after already collecting it, because it was deposited in private banks. Assemblywoman Sandy Galef (Ossning, NY) has a study bill, A)6737, that could lead to a State Bank, but it is being "studied" by the banks now. What do you think they'll decide? Yeah, that's what I thought too. Action step: call Galef's office, write, email etc. and let's swing this thing the way we want – for the People!..."

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

...."Empirical studies on the impact of social capital have shown that citizen wellbeing is improved through social trust, family and community ties, and membership within civic groups. Religious communities are also an important element in the creation of social capital. And societies with lower levels of social capital have been shown to experience lower levels of economic growth. .The use of the term “capital” in “social capital” reflects an important reality: social networks are an asset that produces economic and wellbeing returns."....

from. http://www.prosperity.com/social.aspx

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[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I gotta get back to work...I'm really glad this is getting response.. hav fun.. critique the hell out of it ... ;)

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I like the concept of intangible wealth

I'm confused

a teacher needs to be fed

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

;) hehe.. true ... we feed them with "Social Reserve Notes" ... dollar for dollar equal to Federal Reserve Notes... (on the face value... on the investment side they could be worth more)

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I recall the moon landing

the government needs to sponsor ambitious projects to improve the quality of life of its people

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We don't need a new Bank.

Put your funds in a Not for Profit - Credit Union.

Abandon Corrupt Banking.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

why ? .... do you not think that the Occupy movements could not build a better Banking system for the people ?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

because banking is complicated, and the simpletons can't handle it

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Don't need to reinvent the wheel, unless not for profit goes corrupt.

We don't need a new Bank.

Put your funds in a Not for Profit - Credit Union.

Abandon Corrupt Banking.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I agree with Not for Profit - Credit Union's ... but we have an opportunity to do more ... to support more non-profits... and more benevolent activities ...

more than the existing systems can do right now

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It need not consume a lot of time or effort. Just remind the population of where the corruption lives.

Advertise the fact that they can transfer all of their accounts into Local Community Not for Profit Credit Unions ( existing most everywhere right now ).

By doing this they starve ( destroy? ) the corrupt banking system while strengthening their community.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmm.... maybe I see the miss-understanding ...

I'm not talking about starting a Credit Union level bank.... I'm talking about starting a FED level banking institution that focuses on Social Wealth as opposed to Economic Wealth...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If you want to restructure the Fed Reserve. That is fine and good. Reclaim the process of Government 1st, then restructure along not for profit lines. In the meantime We can take a huge beating to the private corrupt corporate banking world immediately, now, today and tomorrow - for ever.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

restructure the Fed Reserve. ... I agree ... but that is a big battle .. it is privately owned ... and actually likely is illegal to interfere... taking away their privileges and giving it to the treasury could be done...

but that is not what I'm taking about.... I'm talking about expanding what is considered wealth and therefore expanding currency....

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is exactly what you would be doing in supporting/joining your Local Credit Union. These separate Community institutions then form an association ( I believe that there already is a Credit Union Asso. ) This addresses national growth, strength, security, while directly strengthening/supporting your community in which you live.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmm... I guess my post is not communicating well enough ... I'll try to improve it ... peace

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Peace.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

but we have an opportunity to do more ... to support more non-profits... and more benevolent activities ... more than the existing "Credit Unions" can do right now

;)

[-] 3 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I don't understand quite how your plan would work, but it sounds like a great idea. Would it still use the monetary system, or something else, like "digital coin" idea? I've been so immersed in this present culture that I have difficulty imagining how these ideas would work, but I am thrilled that they are being brought forth for consideration. I believe the biggest impact this OWS movement will make is to educate us all in new ways of thinking. For far too long too many of us simply accepted what we were told.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

well ... if we can get it to pass ... we could demand the same privileges the Fed has... and we could ask the treasury to print so many dollars of a "Social Reserve Note" ... otherwise it should behave just as a Federal Reserve Note ....

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

think about this.... the only real reason the Fed is failing right now.. is because they are only including or allowing the wealthy to participate....(as well as not controlling the corruption) ....

so... if we had our own fed ... for the middle & lower class ... we could participate also...

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

I watched the videos on Money as Debt, which indicates that money is not actually printed by the Fed, but is created by the banks in the form of debt. Have you seen that series?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yeah... I've seen many of them... I believe the one you are referring to is Money as Debt II ...

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Closing accounts in corrupt corporate banks and opening new accounts in credit unions is exactly that. Supporting the community and encouraging new Credit Unions to be formed while punishing corruption.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmm.... maybe I see the miss-understanding ...

I'm not talking about starting a Credit Union level bank.... I'm talking about starting a FED level banking institution that focuses on Social Wealth as opposed to Economic Wealth... we can then provide more available capital to the Credit Union's ...

too big an idea ? .... what's bigger idea than Occupy ?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26682) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If you want to restructure the Fed Reserve. That is fine and good. Reclaim the process of Government 1st, then restructure along not for profit lines. In the meantime We can take a huge beating to the private corrupt corporate banking world immediately, now, today and tomorrow - for ever.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

The 2011 Legatum Prosperity Index .... http://www.prosperity.com/

http://legatum.mit.edu/

more Legatum links .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum

[-] 2 points by ohmygoodness (158) 2 years ago

Trust engineers (not the financial ones I mean :)) to do something worthwhile....

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[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

You title says something about bank and then you talk about all random stuff and go off on a tangent and basically paint a fairy tale. Which is all good. But good for a fairy tale. Nothing much actionable or factual or even coherent and logical here. Sorry.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I almost agree .. how do we turn the fairy tale into reality ? ;)

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[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Gross Domestic Wealth: You could in theory calculate everyone's net wealth and come to a figure. But it wont be of much value. What matter is GDP and GDP growth and not how much a country has accumulated.

Social Wealth: very subjective. Impossible to quantify. What would be it's measurement unit btw?

"Why can’t we paint pictures, write books, invent and discover new vaccines, research and learn whatever we want to..?" - No we can't do what we want. It has to be useful to society as well. That would be a nice way for people to opt out of working. Besides, I may want to be a violinist but if i dont play well its useless.

"In simpler times… everyone had a slot they could fill… there was a need for everyone to participate… everyone had opportunity & purpose…" - these arent those times. As Bob Dylan said, "the times they are a changin"

" we need a larger consumer base" - well for that we need to produce more babies mate

"Is Articulation not wealth?.. Is Integrity & Pride not wealth?.. Is Spare time not wealth?.." - No it isnt. And even if it were how do you quantify that. This ain't english literature class, we need hard cold numbers here.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

SC, It is argued that wealth is created when we do labor to transform something worthless into something useful, into something that can be later traded…

Teaching a child to read is also preforming labor… is also useful… is worth something… it is wealth… how-ever it cannot be traded as a commodity… not an economic wealth… but it is still wealth…

no ?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

what I consider Gross Domestic Wealth: is how much intangible wealth a , nation has ... ie, infrastructure, Art, happiness, good health.. etc... things that are valuable.. but cannot be sold ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

That is a very forward thinking way of looking at wealth. I like it.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Thank you ,,, beautifulW ;)

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Infra isnt intangible and can be quantified. Art can be priced too but other than some famous artists most art would receive very poor valuation. Health can be quantified in monetary terms as well but that is not very useful. Instead we depend on various other metrics like mortality rate, life expectancy etc to determine quantify health. Happiness cannot be quantified and is highly subjective. What a North Korean would consider a happy existance would not be the same for an American. Also you may be unhappy one day because u got divorced or your boss shouted at you but that does not matter in the larger scheme of things and that is also out of control of the govt. Measuring any metric is a very costly affair and no one would agree to such a frivolous metric.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

so..SC... do you honestly think that the concept of qualifying a social wealth is undo-able or without value ?

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Quantifying and not qualifying. I had two really good math teacher as a kid, pretty much all my math prowess, however inconsequential, is because of them and today those math skills have landed me a job in Wall St as an analyst. But how do you quantify their contribution to my welfare? More importantly what about the other kids who did not derive any benefit from the same teacher? Would you call that zero contribution, negative may be? What part of my yearly earning would you say is because of those math teachers and how much of it would you lay on each teacher? Did the guy who taught me in 10th grade serve a higher purpose than the one in 12th grade? What about profs in undergrad and grad? How about my mom who taught me most of my elementary and middle school math? What is her monetary contribution to my welfare? Finding a single number to stand for all of these is statistically impossible. So yes, I honestly think it's undo-able and not valuable.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

SC, I do respect your knowledge & honesty.... but... ;)

really... we need to figure out some way to include more into the game... especially now that global economic expansion is taking place.... I really do not like the subsidizing idea... sounds pretty compromising to me... pretty blah....

we need to invent new jobs... for the economy to not only prosper but actually survive... I mean how much stuff can a multi-millionaire actually buy before their pile of crap covers their whole 20 or 200 acres ?.... the free market system is heading to collapse if we don't figure out how to expand opportunities... this is one way .. I'm sure.... and not the only way.... social capital has much promise... think about it... ;)

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmm... good critique SC, ... let me think on it a bit ...

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[-] -1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Lot of incoherent blabber. That's what happens when humanities and liberal arts majors decide to think about banking and finance.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Most bankers, at least back in the day, were liberal arts and humanities majors, right? Go to Williams College, major in philosophy or art history and bingo, a job at Goldman Sachs. I can't imagine this has really changed.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

What? Lol no. You have to extremely good at quant to become an ibanker or trader or analyst. :)

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

I don't know about that. In the '80's and '90's you just had to be a member of the elite. Go to an elite school, major in whatever, and become a banker with a big whopping salary.

Seriously? Today, maybe things are different and you may be talking about the folks at a bit lower level.

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[-] -1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Well Goldman historically has said that they only hire people with good academic creds and more importantly a humble middle class background because according to the founders people from a middle class background are honest and not greedy. Lloyd Blankfien too is from a very humble background.

A dumb but rich kid can get contacts but most financial firms already have plenty of those and most companies have multiple bankers. A dumb guy can very easily lose clients and lots and lots of money with a few stupid trades. I know of people who have lost several millions holding a position because they went to the loo. You can put a dumb guy in front of the terminal.

A cursory look at the book "heard on the street" would tell you that most bankers have to be very very smart (and which is why I have seen many interviews almost memorizing all the problems in the book down to page numbers which isn't what we want though).

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

I don't know. Believe it or not, smartcapitalist, I once worked for a very large bank and I know the peoples' backgrounds in the highest positions were Ivy League, liberal arts majors. They were smart people. That is my point. This business major stuff just doesn't hold water, not for all positions. And, I don't believe any of that about Goldman Sachs. Send me a link about that one.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Did you work at a retail bank? And yes banks do prefer Ivy League ppl, but liberal arts extremely rare. And the Goldman thing, i read it in Charles Ellis' "The partnership: the making of Goldman Sachs"

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

No. Well, what did they major in then? Most of the top liberal arts colleges offer just that, liberal arts. And, I knew these people. They were elite, cultured, sophisticated, privileged people. That is who got the top jobs. It was more about who they knew than what they knew, really.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Most people I know are maths, physics, engg, economics, accountancy grads.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

Okay. We'll agree to disagree. There's probably a good amount of both types in any big bank.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

hmm :)

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

I just recently learned that that is a smiley face, lol!

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

its never too late i guess :)

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21335) 2 years ago

:) Now that is officially my first time using one.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I was a math major ... actually a protective geometrist ...

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

what is a protective geometrist?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

opp's typo... projective geometrist

[-] -1 points by asauti (-113) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

I am for creating a bank that is not based on "storing U.S. dollars" - rather something of a "tangible" asset.

But until our system of law changes "Legal Tender" laws, that is probably not possible.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

maybe... where are the OWS lawyers ? :)

[-] 0 points by asauti (-113) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

Good question. Does OWS have any lawyers? I mean that as a very serious question, in fact, I might make a "parent post" asking the same thing.

[-] -2 points by Galt01 (55) 2 years ago

Why do you say "we"? Go ahead & do it. Why are you hiding behind "We" ?

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

because ... it would be a MUCH better product... if it was developed by team effort...

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[-] -3 points by Galt01 (55) 2 years ago

so go lead the team. show us how it's done genius. Your a total follower moocher. no wonder you are OWS

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

that's makes a lot of sense ???? why are you so angry ?

[-] -2 points by Galt01 (55) 2 years ago

Not angry - just expecting you to walk the walk instead of talk the talk. which is all OWS is about

[-] -3 points by monarch (-5) 2 years ago

We Need To Create Our Own Bank /////////////////////////////////////////// Where are you going to get the funds to deposit in the bank, since the majority of OWS loons do not work??? Oh that's right you want it redistributed from the 1%'s to line your pockets.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

good idea..monarch ;) ... actually many of the 1% would invest in it

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