Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: 50 Tibetans have set themselves on fire to protest Chinese oppression in the past three years, enjoy your I-Phone.

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 1, 2012, 7:23 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I don’t have the I-Phone but I am guilty too, I like cheap stuff, when you see these people it tells you a little about protesting and what it can come to and a little about what the 1% will do to keep power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7MyCWJkohU&feature=youtu.be

70 Comments

70 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 1 points by bringourjobsback (64) 1 year ago

From the top of this page:

"I don’t have the I-Phone but I am guilty too, I like cheap stuff, when you see these people it tells you a little about protesting and what it can come to and a little about what the 1% will do to keep power."

.............

Well don't feel guilty, cause I'd say if you like "stuff" period, it's going to be chinese. That's the way the world powers have arranged it and very very sadly it will not change. This so called Free trade garbage has drained middle class wealth and manufacturing from America and actually the world and placed it into China where they still have slave like working conditions for their working class.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

China has become the work camp of the world.

[-] 1 points by bringourjobsback (64) 1 year ago

It has, and what has that done to the world?

It has: - Taken well paying jobs from working people and placed them into poverty. - Taken wealth from the middle class and re-distributed it to the mega wealthy.

Ultimately you can say it's turned what used to be the greatest nation with the greatest industry into a bunch of servers, towel folders, etc. And that's putting it nicely.

We are actually competing with slaves. every time we outsource to wage slave's we become closer to being wage slaves ourselves.

REAL wealth is taking raw materials and transforming them into usable products. I.E. I-phones, microwaves, furniture, etc. So much of our real wealth creation has gone over there.

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

The problem is that no one can throw any light on why these self immolations are occurirng mostly in Sichuan Province, where there have been a number of suicides by hanging as well. The other Budddhist groups in China seem to have a good relationship with the Chinese government as do all the other major religions. The Dalai Lama's allegation that it is all part of a genocidal plot by Beijing is just plain silly. Ethnic Tibetans are exempt from the one child policy and in fact their numbers have doubled since the Chinese took over. The number of ethnic Tibetans in theTAR is now 2,400,000 and nearly 500,000 of them are monks or nuns which means that something like 35% of Tibetan males are monks. Despite the fact that one third of the male population do not reproduce the birth rate seems extremly healthy. The Dalai says that things weren't perfect before before the Chinese arrived at the people had more tp eat then but I doubt it. There were even more monks then, plus an extensive aristocrisy, all of them living off the backs of the poor. I used to belong to the Tibet Support Group and was a big fan of the Dalai Lama and although I have changed my mind I have kept my mouth shut about my true feeling. But I now feel that the best thing I can do to help stop these self immolations is be honest about my opinions and assure any other monks tempted to burn themselves that it won't change my mind. My understanding is that the Tibetans voluntarily surrendered sovereignty to the Ghengus Khan in the 13th century and since then never put up any armed resistance to Chinese rule until 1949. Of all the Independance movements around the World the Tibetans seem to have the weakess claim. This is the ideal place to put the case for independence and the reasons for the self immolations.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

May I ask you how many do you think give part of what they make to provide Sheldon Anderson the life style he enjoys?

Sacrifice is inherent in life but what we give our lives to makes all the difference.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If I remember right Ghengus Khan died, it is always easier to believe they are "insane" than to listen to the truth tellers. No one can know another's heart, but we can know our own, if we look.

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

I would love to know what these poor misguided souls immolated themselves. What exactly are their grievances? In what way are they being mistreated? How are their religious freedoms being interfered with? There is no use burning yourself if no one knows why you are doing it. This forum provides the perfect opportunity for the Tibet Independance movement to make their case but emotional blackmail will get them nowhere.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You call self-immolation "emotional blackmail"?

Seriously twisted you are.

[-] -1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

What would you call it? Theyre the twisted ones?, Are you just a moronic flammer or do you have any opinions on this subject or any other?

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

They're dead, WuWei.

How can killing themselves be considered blackmail?

Martyrs they might be, but you're discounting what life conditions led them to commit suicide. Wise up. Oh, and what's a flammer? As for "they" putting your location down as New York, that's your profile, so don't be bullshitting about it.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

hey think tank boy, I'm your huckleberry

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

They Blackmail the Chinese by appealing to our emotions. I am sorry if emotional blackmail appears to trivalise self- immolation but it is much worse to encourage it by calling them martyrs. In their death throes they often scream out "Free Tibet" but the sad truth is Sichuan province has never been part of Tibet. They call for the return of the Dalai Lama too but the Dalai Lama is free to return whenever he likes but if he ever decides to it wont be to Sichuan province. I meant flaming which is not allowed on this forum.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Why does the government in Peking insist on imposing its will on those who do not wish their guidance? There are many in the factories of Foxcon who can kiss their asses why do they stay where they are not welcome? There is extreme oppression of the Tibetan people it is exposed by the response it compels.

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

In what way are they oppressed?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Perhaps NBC should send a news team there to ask, would they be welcome and free to talk in private to whomever they wish to?

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

It's the same all over China. No-one is saying that there are not human rights issues there. But you should be careful not to do anything to encourage these self immolations. 60 have burned so far many ofmthem are very young. Two were only 15. Is life so intolerable for the ethnic Tibetans living in China that the only way out is by suicide? Are the conditions they are living under so much worse than the other Chinese ethnic groups. The answer is no as far as I can discover. Their religious freedoms are not being interfered with either. These self immolations appear to be a bid for independence but I feel as well that it is also partly due to the growth of atheism among those born after communism. Traditionally up to 40% of Tibetan men become monks and expect to be fed by the rest of society. I should think that pickings are pretty slim at the moment. I have definitely sensed a tone of cynicIsm amount the lay Tibetans in Dharamasala towards the monks who better fed than the rest of them and often wealthy. The Dalai Lama recently donated $150, 000 ("Out of his own money") to Stanford University towards research into the Neurology of Meditation. But the spiritual Leader of the Sichuan Tibetans is the Karmapa. This living God lives in Sikkim. The Indian police raided his palace there and found $1.8 000 000 in cash most of it in ¥uan. He claims that they were the offerings made by the faithful during one world tour and that was just cash. Between them these 500 or so Living Gods have 100s of millions of Dollars between them. None of the heads of the 4 schools live in China as far as I know. Hollywood seems to be theIr preferred destination and one of them is Steven Seagal LOL!

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

Asking them what? Sichuan province isn't in Tibet. You can go to Tibet all right.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I take it that going there and asking them is out of the question?

I thought we were talking about Tibet.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

They would like to speak their native language odd it means so much to them to be able to, but different people want different things, it seems a reasonable request, the Chinese government must be filled with monsters.

[-] 1 points by WuWei (34) from New York, NY 1 year ago

You are absolutely wrong there. Tibetan has equal status with chinese within the TAR. All government officials have to speak fluent Tibetan and Chinese.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we can't stand the fact the Chinese are more innovated with silicon than the US

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

But the Chinese ain't more innovative then the US.

They have benefited from our tech innovations by copying and mass producing with cheap labor.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

why i should believe that ?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Believe what you like. I know the US created the tech revolution. I know that Chines co's simply copy (or buy) American patents and utilize their massive population to produce so cheaply.

THAT is their advantage. Low wage labor!

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

the 0 place digit was an Arabic invention

roman numerals were so cumbersome in calculating

[-] 2 points by andover4 (-33) 1 year ago

actually, "0" was a hindu invention.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

hindu arabic?

[-] 1 points by andover4 (-33) 1 year ago

indian hindu.

[-] 1 points by Futurevision1 (-75) 1 year ago

What is your point?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

true dat. That was thousands of years ago!

I'm talking the last couple hundred years! And more specifically the last 60 years.

You do not believe we (the west) have dominated innovation in that time?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

it's not statistically probable

considering populations and land spans around the world

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

If you say so boss!

Todays the day! Vote Jill Stein! WooHoo!

Who do you think she will appoint as the big 4 admin positions?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Really do you think so? I think folks are folks I think Americans do lots of fancy thinking.

I just think that organizing things so that those being led pick the leaders like democracy and unions are better than those led by people who are selected from above them in the organization like corporations and communist countries. that's the big difference I have with the GOP, they like communist top down rule.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I thought communism was about community property not top down authority

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

it would seem I kind of said the opposite

Some like to focus on the "redistribution" of communism when of course that's not the main thing at all, I guess most communist countries have a slightly different way of distributing success than capitalist countries, but I don't see that as the main difference between America and say China what I see is either those that are led pick the leaders or those the lead pick the successors as the key difference, in corporations those that lead pick successors as in China, I prefer democracy like unions and America.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

i have no job when I'm old my money will be gone

and I'll get none from social security

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Many share that problem, perhaps if democracy survives the attack from the GOP we might decide not to let some starve while others build car elevators, but if Obama does not receive enough support as Gore did not then I suspect many will go hungry.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

that's already happening. the 2 party party isn't helping

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

neither is the atmospheric system, perhaps we will have to do something

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1838) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I don't blame Apple for Tibet, but a company that has top profits, contrives a facade of such superior coolness, over charges, breaks it's non-proprietary OS agreements, and does it all on the backs of virtual slaves ~ defiantly!!!

You have to be a RepubliCon to support Apple's despicable business practices.

Fuck Apple!!

[-] -2 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

That's hysterical - it's the Dems and the Libs that are addicted to the play-tech.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Apple has turned into a cult.

[-] 0 points by Brython (-146) 1 year ago

Yea but it's a younger metrosexual cult - it's not a conservative or middle working class cult - most of them refuse to waste the money or the hours on these toys - toys and entertainment have become our most promising industries, the result of our prosperity, and that's rather sad.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I don't have an I-Phone.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I got a LG but it's made in the place the same way, and I love the I-Phone 5 for reasons I haven't heard anybody mention but I'm like that, I came across this from my twitter feed, and when I saw these people I was reminded of what can happen, sometimes we forget. As the Delia Lama points out by the end of the interview it is through interaction we share knowledge, not exactly those words but I think the meaning is in there. It is often hard to know what is best for others often it is embarrassingly easy to see it for ourselves.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I understand.

But, I am responsible for a great many things. I feel responsible for a great many more that, technically, I am not responsible for. I am learning to draw a line in the sand.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

it is almost always easy to know what the next right thing is on a personal level, one can endeavor to do as little harm as possible and resit living in the past, to observe and learn from the acts of others while resitting judgement can also be useful, but here I am talking like I know something when I can barely feed myself...

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Facts. You do know something.

And you know, I finally got word that my career is changing and things are getting better. It doesn't mean that my words before this moment in time were any less valuable.

[-] 0 points by Futurevision1 (-75) 1 year ago

Yes. oWS is now against products made in china. Now what is your point?

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

According to Michael Parenti, much of what we are told about China and Tibet is a "myth":

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

He says:

Religions have had a close relationship not only with violence but with economic exploitation. Indeed, it is often the economic exploitation that necessitates the violence. Such was the case with the Tibetan theocracy. Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into manorial estates worked by serfs. These estates were owned by two social groups: the rich secular landlords and the rich theocratic lamas. Even a writer sympathetic to the old order allows that “a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches.” Much of the wealth was accumulated “through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.”

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

did you watch the interview? do you think it's movie effects? do you have a clue?

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

The Dalai Lama's primary function in life is to represent the class of ex-slave owners in Tibet. These people were an elite, including less than 5% of the population, who owned most of the rest of the population as serfs or slaves. Some high lamas were known to own upwards of 5,000 individuals.

So it appears that some fanatics in the retinue of the lama caste feel so strongly that these elites should regain their position that they set themselves on fire.

As for the people of Tibet, they've never had it so good as they do today. Tibet has had one of the fastest growing economies in the world for years now, something like 12% or more. Admittedly, this is partly due to Tibet's having been so backwards, existing at about the same level as medieval Europe in the 1950s, due to the oppressive rule of the lamas.

Today, almost 100% of Tibetan university graduates quickly find jobs.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Have you ever considered living in the now? Let me repeat the headline in case you are insane, 50 people have set themselves aflame in the past three years.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

It sounds to me like those fifty people were insane. Just because people killed themselves, by itself, doesn't mean anything. Remember Heaven's Gate? The UFO cult a few years back in which people killed themselves?

Do you think that China should just take the 100s of millions of dollars that it invests into Tibet each year and get out?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

money is all that matters to some

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

If you are poor, like most Tibetan people were, money does matter a lot.

[-] 0 points by Clancy (42) 2 years ago

I wil enjoy my iPhone

[-] -1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

"I know Kung-Fu"

[-] -1 points by Futurevision1 (-75) 1 year ago

I have an iPhone. WTF is your point? Don't buy anything made in China?

[-] -2 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

The Chinese have been oppressing the people of Tibet for centuries. Apparently it took an I-phone and a youtube video for you to be made aware of that fact.

It should also give you some perspective on what you call oppression here in the United States. How easily the word "oppression" is tossed out against anything and anyone, and how offensively shallow and spoiled we look in using it in comparison to those who truly are so deeply oppressed and victimized.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Still judging shit you don't know anything about I see, anybody who has to work for another to earn their bread is oppressed. It is true here our employers want to know if you're having sex on a regular basis and our government supports them in their efforts, imposing morals through the workplace supported by the government whither it is birth control or sex between men oppression of personal freedom is at risk in American you make a good point there.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

So you are against the oppression & exploitation of workers? Or just outraged it took us so long to complain about it.?

[-] 1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

I'm against it and outraged by it. I also get outraged when people attempt to paint everyone else as victims of oppression and exploitation when they in fact might NOT be at all, and even if they are to some degree, 90% of the time they are far better off than people whose lives truly are filled with horror and suffering.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'm sure the people who set themselves on fire thought Americans were over-reacting too.

Weird how this comment is so different than your first almost like different people had written them.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

You have no idea what the people who set themselves on fire thought about Americans.

And if you cannot comprehend or see the consistent theme between the two comments, that's not my fault.

[-] 4 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

nothing ever is your fault is it? climate change, poverty, debt, you are the most faultless person I've seen since the last Republican I met.....

let me ask you this how do you feel about rich guys complaining about taxes like it was some kind of oppression or something, does it turn your stomach to see rich privileged punks whine about paying a little bit back when they have so much....

you know what I'm saying they whip out words like punishing when all your doing is saying they should pay a little tax....

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

And YOU think everything is "Americas" fault. You like to point fingers of blame at everyone and everything you don't like-as if YOUR opinion alone constitutes absolute truth.

I think whiny, selfish, self centered, finger pointing, irresponsible people can't be quantified by how much money they have, or don't have. There are rich stupid idiots and poor stupid idiots and idiots in between. Thinking you can stop people from being stupid by taking money from one group and giving to another is NAIVE and stupid in it's own right.

I take responsibility for the things I DO and SAY and have control over. YOU don't get to tell me or anyone else what we are responsible for beyond that. I hold you accountable for the exact same things. YOU whip out equally punishing words and accusations EXACTLY like they do, so why would I embrace your behavior and beliefs any more readily or happily than I do theirs? It would be IRRATIONAL.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6405) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

oh my you really don't like people to point out what a worthless, shiftless fuck you are,

You keep talking about this person I've never met, is he your strawman friend?

If you have time after you get done addressing the thoughtsof your imaginary friend the strawman, would you mind addressing some of the things I've said.

So what is it with this talk of "punishing" when all people are talking about is taxes, how disrespectful to people with real punishments is that?

[-] -2 points by KevinLark (-103) 1 year ago

vote obama out

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well we can help suffering people even if someone else is worse off right.?

I suppose we should endeavor to help all in need, no?