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Tonight: A Dialogue with Occupy El Bario & OWS

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 7, 2011, 9:02 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

A Dialogue with Occupy El Barrio & OWS
“Dignity is an Echo in the Heartbeat of the People”

(Unanimously Endorsed by the General Assembly of Occupy Wall St, The People of Color working group (POCCUPY), Immigrant/worker working group, Outreach working group, Spanish working group (OWS en Español), Labor Outreach Committee & the Anti- Racism Allies Group)

The humble and simple community of El Barrio (East Harlem), NYC opens its arms to all the good-hearted people of Occupy Wall St. and invites them to join us in our corner of the world for an evening of dialogue. We will share our stories of resistance and memories of victory, as we bring to life our dreams of a world of justice, dignity, and democracy.

Movement for Justice in El Barrio is an immigrant- and people of color-led, grassroots community organization that fights for dignity and against neoliberal displacement from East Harlem to Chiapas and beyond.

For seven years, Movement has built a 700-member-strong, local movement for dignity that has taken on and defeated multi-national corporations and corrupt politicians. Committed to the principles of autonomy and self-determination, Movement practices participatory democracy and horizontal decision-making on a community-wide scale. As part of the Zapatista-initiated The Other Campaign, Movement fights for liberation of all marginalized groups from below and to the left.

Monday, November 7th, 7pm
Julia De Burgos Latino Cultural Center
1680 Lexington Ave
Between 105TH & 106TH ST
(6 Train to 103rd ST.)

For more information contact Movement for Justice in El Barrio at movementforjusticeinelbarrio@riseup.net

Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=255406524510441

126 Comments

126 Comments


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[-] 5 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Every immigrant group that comes to NY clusters together. Americans who live overseas do the same thing. This does not make them racist, it makes them normal. When people share language, culture, history, and experience, it is natural that they seek each other out in a place where they are different from the rest of the population. Additionally, they take jobs eshewed by others which are typically low paying with no benefits, thus they have to establish their lives in economically disadvantaged areas, which they then reform to fit their needs as much as is feasible. Gentrification of an area can push them into worse and worse living conditions and farther from employment opportunities. My own grandparents and parents are former residents of the ukrainian neighborhood that existed in the lower east side (near surmas). They did the same thing, but had better opportunities and no one was pushing them out, so they did not need to be political activists-- they also had the advantage of being the right skin color to move forward in this country.

[-] 1 points by KennSpace (9) 2 years ago

Culture is separation because you like it. Wanting to feel normal is normal. I love visiting other places. Would it not be a bore - if the "others" did not exist? Nationalism?;..., well, I don't know what that is - I will build a fence to keep out nationalism !! LIKE the Wall of China !!!!!... huh.... stop bugging me with change. IT IS HERE! Look at Israel and the world, I am tired of the charade! I will change it, I am tired or waiting fo someone else.

(I feel January 20th, 2012: will be a bigger day in US history than WTO in Seattle. The battle continues, rage against the machine is real.) January 20, 2012 – Move to Amend Occupies the Courts! Move To Amend is planning bold action to mark this date — Occupy the Courts — a one day occupation on Friday January 20, 2012, of the Federal Courts, including the Supreme Court of the United States and as many of the 89 U.S. District Court Buildings as we can. Inspired by Dr. Cornell West, who was arrested on the steps of the Supreme Court last month, Move to Amend will lead the charge on the judiciary which created — and continues to expand — corporate personhood rights. http://open.salon.com/blog/kennspace/2011/10/28/corporate_occupation_of_the_united_states_1

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[-] 0 points by owstag (508) 2 years ago

Culture isn't "separation because you like it", that's smiley faced apartheid, something WAY too common and uncritically accepted on the left. Distinct cultures usually come about by accidents of history, not deliberate separation.

The whole idea of a 'working group' exclusively for 'people of color' is counterproductive and divisive. I get the sense that this is really geared towards combatting the perception of OWS as lily white, but it's a foolish way of going about it.

Also, the term 'people of color' is rather dubious. Spaniards certainly aren't 'people of color', and many Latin-Americans could only be construed as 'people of color' by application of an extreme sort of 'one drop rule' mentality that would make some Jim Crow era southerners blush.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

I agree that people can all accomplish more working across boundaries, yet i would not deny any self defined group the right to address their common concerns in an atmosphere in which they feel strength and community. You can stretch out your hand, but they dont have take it. Maybe they will eventually see that we nearly all faced some sort of exclusion at some point in our histories, and that we can welcome them to participate in our larger group without trying to erase who they are or negate the truths of their existence. But we cant force them, and we cant call them names because they have chosen a path of their own.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I am overjoyed to see this post!!!!!

[-] 2 points by Thisisthetime (200) from Kahlotus, WA 2 years ago

Keep Up the Good Work. Be Strong. Fair-ness.

[-] 2 points by oddgrrrl (28) 2 years ago

Marching from Washington Heights to Liberty The longest, most inspired and first 10 mile march in my life happened today! At least 1,500 people marched for social and economic justice all the way from 181st street in Washington Heights to the plaza at Liberty and Broadway. Nosotros Somos noventa nueve por ciento!! We are the ninety-nine percent. They say get back- We say fight back!!!!

[-] 2 points by talkofliberty (3) 2 years ago

At this point I have seen zero plans to make America better, just plans to stop working. That will only cause more economic pain.

http://talkofliberty.com

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

Galt's Gulch is looking better and better.

[-] 1 points by Beets (1) 2 years ago

Who is going to be cleaning your pools in Galt's Gulch, cooking your food, fixing your cars, washing your laundry? The 1% cannot escape, they are the most helpless and dependent people in the world because they don't know how to do anything.

[-] 1 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

I know very good, hard-working people who recognize the value of their labor for these tasks. And the people of Galt's Gulch recognize that value of paying for that labor vs doing it themselves. Despite the shallow treatment Rand gave to describing the place and who is there - there are plenty of non-wealthy value creators who would thrive there. I will be one of them.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

I highly doubt I qualify.

[-] 1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Galt's Gulch will probably spring up in Costa Rica, or any South American country smart enough to realize that they can skim off 90% of this country's wealth merely by offering a safe haven with a good airport and room to expand their businesses.

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Occupy galts gulch

[-] 1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Hah! It will be well defended, I am guessing.

[-] 0 points by Beets (1) 2 years ago

Galt's Gulch will starve to death in a pool of its own waste products. See above.

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[-] 2 points by rebeldos (3) 2 years ago

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Decolonize-the-Barrio/304610356222190

We came into being as Occupy the Barrio, but our group decided that it was best to change our name to Decolonize the Barrio. But we have essentially the same concerns. Except that at the same time, we acknowledge the potential implications of using a word like "occupy" in establishing inclusionary spaces for peoples of color who share a painful history of occupation, colonization, and deterritorialization.

[-] -1 points by pseudocop (11) 2 years ago

"Decolonize the Barrio"...

Does this mean that the mestizos that have colonized the US through the immigration act of 1965 cease to colonize my country?

And return where they belong?

If so- I'm in.

[-] 2 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Your country chuckle. U have a receipt 4 the beads u paid 400+ birthdays ago wrinkly troll

[-] 0 points by genaro (7) from Neuquén, Neuquén 2 years ago

if you want them to return... will you do the same ? ... or you are an american indigene ?... almost anyone of us belongs to this continent...

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Hmmmm....since there is no such thing as an "indigenous " people in this country I'm not sure what you mean. Now if you are talking about who built this country and made it the place to escape to from whatever Third World shithole they are from...well....

[-] 1 points by yoss33 (269) 2 years ago

awesome. good to see. Best wishes. Go Occupy!

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Im taking a cronypaid sickday

[-] 1 points by NoPartySystem (10) 2 years ago

our society is obviously structured to maintain the status quo of white/gender normative/heterosexual power. How can you explain the inequalities that minority populations bare the brunt of? Is it because they are lazy? Or maybe they don't work hard enough? Or maybe they have deficient "character?" Think about how marginalized groups are implicated in society. Think about their means of climbing the ladder of social or economic success in our country. To suggest that racism, or any discourse of bigotry is merely an arguing point of "the left" is to deny histories of systematic oppression. I don't even know who I'm responding to at this point, but I hope that some of you conservative commenters will read this.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The outrage from the right wing at the Muslim cultural center opening up "near" Ground Zero had nothing to do with racism, right? HA!!!!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Agreed. Everything is rosy fine with them (probably because they are white "Christian" males).

[-] 1 points by theragingbull1984 (6) from Westbury, NY 2 years ago

all the places voting today should write "we the people" in on the ballots. maybe then they will listen.

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Not well enough. U missing the headlines ongoing. Theres no refuge no storm pipe no escape hideyhole 4 cronies and their stooges. We are the 99% and we will end cronyism once + 4 all time.

[-] 1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Show up and march in solidarity

[-] 1 points by Bellaciao29 (99) 2 years ago

I'm sorry I don't live in the States, but I believe the same in the World Revolution, because it's the only way to obtain again the lost democracy, freedom and social justice conquered in tens of fight. I'm sure that we shall overcome, because the reason is all by us. However I'll help you informing my readers about the objectives of the Movement. I wonder if Obama has ever thought to the next presidential elections. For him they will be a real flop.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

How did it go last night?

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[-] 1 points by worldrevolution (12) 2 years ago

US government is going to support Israel to Create 3rd world war, based on attack to iran. but we don't let then to do wrong more...

[-] 1 points by shreepal (9) 2 years ago

take every one on board the ows... every one who suffered injustice at the hands of corporate-greed-in alliance with-political establishment. This way you have a sea of humanity on your side only waiting to be embraced by you. ows, your power is your numbers, justice of your cause and the voice of humanity's conscience.

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

OWH on Sunday was overrun by a protest group against the pipeline from Canada to Texas.. Support for this coertion of the movement"Occupy the White House" was sanctioned in secret by the General assemblyOWS!! It has now become more than speculation that the DNC progressive wing has infiltrated the entire movement and the General Assembly,and that the President may be in the loop. Demand transparency!! You are being taken over in secret. Demand answers for what happened in DC Sunday!

[-] 1 points by oddgrrrl (28) 2 years ago

The longest, most inspired and first 10 mile march in my life happened today! At least 1,500 people marched for social and economic justice all the way from 181st street in Washington Heights to the plaza at Liberty and Broadway. Nosotros Somos noventa y nueve por ciento!! We are the ninety-nine percent. They say get back- We say fight back!!!!

[-] 1 points by Occupy1961 (12) 2 years ago

Everyone must be loyal to the color coded boxes we stick ourselves into. Must not think outside the box.

[-] -2 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Your box is smells like crony

[-] 1 points by steven2002 (363) 2 years ago

The counsel decided to sort these people. You have no right to question it. It's what we want. Live with it.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Oh I get it! They are acting out "Animal Farm"!! Cool!

[-] 0 points by Dio1313 (69) 2 years ago

Attention all OWS please go to liveleak.com and watch video of violent protest in Oakland. By occupying you give opportunities for these idiots to blend in with you and act like asses. I am not sure what, if anything you can do about it, but these idiots definitely hurt your cause. Do what you can to keep these dumbasses away from you.

[-] 0 points by knigitz (13) 2 years ago

Previous elections nationwide have been met with weak turnouts for years. With almost half of the voting-age population not even voting as such was the turnout in the 2008 presidential election.

I challenge you, the 99%, to Occupy Voting Booths.

If your goal is "returning the US back into the hands of its individual citizens", make sure the people that the 99% is voting into office isn't against those things. Otherwise, things get kind of counter-productive.

Occupy Voting Booths! Get organized and get the right people into office.

Please see mytimetovote.com for a breakdown of important election dates and other important information.

If you want to take back our country, take back our government!

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[-] 0 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

The whole "old white guys" trope is so tired. Being white is not a crime and trying to divide and conquer because of skin color is a tactic unworthy of Occupy. It's an insult to every individual who strives to respect others irrespective of color.

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[-] 0 points by Occupy1961 (12) 2 years ago

Just sounds like another racist group like MEcha and La Raza (the race). Why do people define themself by the tone of their skin.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Actually, it's the white people who have been defining them by their skin tone. They are just fighting back.

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

So, what you're actually saying is that they're fighting Whites? Oh, that's good to know! Do I get to defend myself, as a White? Or even worse, as a White Christian Heterosexual Male? OMG, evil!!!

[-] -1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

They're fighting for their rights.... the ones they've been denied. And it IS the whites who have denied them equal rights. Do you get to defend yourself against what? Have you been oppressed by people of color?

Your response is a typical sarcastic, immature response from the side that hasn't been oppressed but who sees those who are fighting for equal rights as threatening to you.

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

And SwissMiss, how are Whites treated in places like Mexico, China or Zimbabwe? Go to Mexico, not on holiday mind you. Jump the border and see how they treat you on the other side.

Oh, and how are those Rhodesian Whites doing? There hardly any left! Yeah, that's right, most left the land of their birth or were killed because of the colour of their skin. Tortured, raped and murdered, all there for the West to see. Not a peep from the rest of you! Go get bent!

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"White Zimbabweans (also referred to as white Rhodesians, or even simply as Rhodesians) are people from the southern African country Zimbabwe who identify themselves as white. In linguistic, cultural and historical terms, these Zimbabweans of European ethnic origin are divided between the English-speaking Anglo-African descendants of British and Irish settlers, the Afrikaans-speaking descendants of Afrikaners from South Africa, and those descended from Greek and Portuguese settlers.

A small number of people of European ethnicity first came to Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) as settlers during the late nineteenth century. A steady immigration of white people followed after the end of the Second World War, and to avoid the coming of black African rule (commonly referred to at the time as the Wind of Change), Southern Rhodesia broke away under a unilateral declaration of independence and the self-governing country known as Rhodesia was established.

As was the case (to varying degrees) in most European colonies in Africa and Asia, white immigrants took a privileged position in many areas of society. However, the position in Rhodesia was distinguished by the fact that the local white minority entrenched its political, economic and social dominance of the country. Extensive areas of prime farmland were owned by whites. Senior positions in the public services were reserved for whites, and whites working in manual occupations enjoyed legal protection against job competition from Africans. As time passed, this situation became increasingly unwelcome to the majority ethnic groups within the country and also to wide sections of international opinion.

After the country's reform as Zimbabwe in 1980, whites had to adjust to being an ethnic minority in a country with a Black African government. Many whites emigrated in the early 1980s, regretting the loss of their racially based privileges and being uncertain about their future, but many remained. Political unrest and the illegal seizure of some white-owned commercial farms resulted in a further exodus commencing in 1999. The 2002 census recorded 46,743 whites remaining in Zimbabwe. More than 10,000 were elderly and fewer than 9,000 were under the age of 15.[2]"

Wow.... if THAT doesn't reek of racism that whites committed against people of color..... people of color who were natives of that particular place.... I don't know what does!!!!!

Are you pissed because the African Natives wanted to regain control of the place where they and generations of their people were born when the whites from Europe and other countries (you see, this is a common theme throughout history) immigrated to places where there are people of color, and they've taken the power away from those people (happened in Hawaii, in all of Latin America, in parts of Africa, in the USA, in Australia, in New Zealand, and in many other places)?

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

"Political unrest and the illegal seizure of some white-owned commercial farms..."

Lol, that's a blatant untruth! Try MOST farms. There were almost 5000 White farmers before 2000, now there less than 400! And Mugabe's going for their land too, giving it to his most trusted family and close friends, in true African style, whilst the rest of the population heads to my country because they are starving with all that freedom from evil White oppressors. Most now live in South Africa where us "Racist" Whites pay close to 90 % of the tax to keep over 50 million blacks alive. All on the burden of 4 million Whites, or rather 1.5 million tax payers. This whilst the ruling party's youth league sings about killing us!

That's not "adjusting" to "majority rule", that's adapt and DIE! And SwissMiss, Whites brought all that with them when they settled there, blacks never built it at all. Please tell me why Whites' should build everything and then hand it over to blacks because they breed more whilst taking advantage of White commercial farms which produce vastly more food and White medical technology that greatly reduces infant mortality and death within the African community? Please tell me because what you're saying is that it's racist to protect what you and your community build!

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

How's Zimbabwe doing now, by the way, surely it's doing tremendously well now that those racist Whites have left? Chased off their farms, raped or even killed. And don't pretend they were not, there's ample evidence to prove the violent nature of the illegal seizures of White owned land. Which by the way, lots was brought AFTER 1980, after the election, which elected the same official still in power TODAY! Yet, there's not a peep, in fact you condone it because you think those Whites were racist by protecting themselves as a minority against a rather violent majority. That protection was the only thing keeping them alive in a dangerous area, and when that was taken away, most left knowing what would eventually happen and DID happen!

Whatever way you cut it, there were 250000 Rhodesians in the 1980's, now there is less than 25000. That's genocide. However, I get it, they were racist and thus they deserved to die and the children too.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

What about those (the Native Africans) who had to succumb to the rule and power of the whites? It's sounds like what happened in South Africa. And then people like you get pissed for them wanting their rights back??? I'm not condoning killing people, but white people are the ones who oppressed in the first place..... like I said, what has happened A LOT all over the world throughout history.

It's just like how the first white immigrants to what is now the USA called the Native Peoples "savages". The white people were the savages!!!!!!

And the black people who are here and throughout North and South America were brought here against their will.... in the form of slaves for the rich, "Christian", white people!!!!! And then racist white people here have the gull to tell the black people to "go back home" when the black people fight for their equal rights.... the same black people who were BORN here!!!!!

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

You miss the entire reason of Apartheid. You think blacks are violent because of Apartheid. However, you miss that Apartheid existed to protect Whites from black violence. Or better yet, do some research into South African history, try the reasoning for the Great Trek or perhaps the Boer War, figure out that there is lots of land in South Africa that us White people brought, paid for and its ours, NOT BLACKS. They are not indigenous to South Africa, Whites' have vast claims to South Africa as blacks were not even there when Whites first settled.

Blacks were given every single piece of land they settled before the Union of South Africa in 1910, during Apartheid, yes my dear, they, the Apartheid government, took land from Whites in places like the Transkei and the Ciskei, Venda and elsewhere and GAVE IT TO BLACKS! OMG! Blacks settled the most pristine, green and fertile land South Africa has, they had it when they settled there, they had it during Apartheid and they have it now! Each African tribe in South Africa was given a state to rule themselves, states that existed prior to the Union of South Africa in 1910. Yes, once again, British Imperialism forced nations together that did not want to be together. Hence the eventually birth of legislated Apartheid, which by the way, was merely British rules drafted into legislation.

Most Afrikaners, more specifically, Boers like myself, would like our own country where we can rule ourselves. The blacks can have the rest of South Africa, they've destroyed it already. Blacks should do to Whites what Whites did to them during Apartheid, give us are own countries and then pay for all the infrastructure to be built with blacks paying all the tax just like Whites did during Apartheid. Just with one small change, we won't burn all the infrastructure down!

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Right, just like the 1960s race riots in the USA were brought on by the blacks and are not the fault of the white dominance, segregation, racism, and oppression!!!!

White people are native to Africa.... as in, they were the first people in Africa? Wow, I never knew that!!!!!

There was legislation passed to create Apartheid.... to keep the whites in rule. How do you justify that? Why did Nelson Mandela work hard to end Apartheid?

Moving to where others live, taking their land, dominating them in every way, to build what you want to build isn't justified. The people of European descent claim the same rights here.... yet, they came here and killed off a lot of the Natives. Many of those who they didn't kill they forced to adopt white Christian ways.... names, religion, culture, etc. The goal of the white people in rule was to assimilate the Natives.

And, when the first white people came here, they received welfare from the Natives.... crops, clothing, shelter, etc. The Natives taught them how to hunt, grow crops, make clothing, etc. Without the welfare of the Natives, the whites would've died off here.

What I've read about your area and other areas in Africa contradicts what you are saying. There is clear evidence of a history of racism against the native black people committed by white immigrants.... the same story as in many other areas of the world, some of which I've mentioned.

[-] 0 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

You still didn't answer the question. How are those superior blacks doing in Zimbabwe now that there are no more Whites to keep them down?

[-] 0 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

Oh, and you obviously missed the new Indigenisation Scheme brought out by Mugabe to push those remaining few racist Whites out. I'm sure you will be real happy about that.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

I don't feel sorry for people who've trampled on other people (whites over Native Peoples of many geographical areas). White people are the ones who've colonized countries around the world to take them as "theirs'.... not the other way around.

"Colonialism is the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with settlers, and exploiting it economically. Historically, this has often involved killing or subjugating the indigenous population. With the spread of Hellenic and Roman culture and technology by the Roman Empire, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries and the Industrial Revolution of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, most of the world has at some point been colonised by a European country. The most notable colonial powers were Rome, Greece, Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark, whose combined empires covered at various times the whole of North, Central and South America, Africa, Australia, much of Indonesia, the countries lying in the Levant, much of the Indian subcontinent as well as most of the countries lying in between. In short, most of the world. It is interesting to note that all of these colonial powers have a large coastline. Historically, the settlements of new lands and the maintenance of trade and prosperity have depended heavily on naval power."

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Actually, I've been to Mexico close to 20 times, and I've NEVER been treated with racism by ANYONE there. The Mexican people, as a whole, are much more open to accepting people from other countries than a lot of people in the USA are. Have you ever been to Mexico.... beyond TJ, Juarez, or some other border town? Have you been there close to 20 times like I have been?

I've also been to Hong Kong 3 times, to Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan, Australia, Canada, etc..... and NO ONE has ever treated me badly because of where I'm from or for the fact that I'm white and they may not be. Rather, people are intrigued and are interested in learning about me. People in Asia, as a whole, are MUCH MORE modest and level-headed when it comes to such things. There IS a difference in culture.

Have you ever traveled outside of the country? If not, then your comments are nothing but bigoted, hateful stereotypes. If you've been treated badly outside of the USA, maybe it's because you've acted like an ass while doing so..... or maybe it's in response to how our government and military have treated those in other countries (not that it's your fault for that last part, unless you are a soldier who treated civilians in other countries badly).

[-] 0 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

You obviously cannot read a reply worth a damn. First off, I'm not American, secondly, if you go to Mexico and other countries as a TOURIST, of course they going to treat you well. You're paying them to do that! Ala, tourism industry! Duh!

Go to those places as a refugee or asylum seeker or just jump the border like many Hispanics do on a daily basis. Be sure to hand yourself in to a Mexican border agent and be sure to say how non racialistic you are.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

You NEVER said anywhere before your last two posts saying you're not American that you're not American. None of your original posts (before you started saying you said you aren't American) state that. You're the one who can't read.

I actually can go across the border into Mexico or Canada without being harassed by their officials there. Americans can cross into Mexico EASILY without being harassed. I've done ti MANY times, and I've been to MANY border towns.

To your comment about being a tourist, I've spent time in Mexico beyond being a tourist, and so have many of my friends (as a cultural exchange program within universities). I never have been treated like shit because of my skin color. Rather, the people there have been nothing but extremely friendly.... even as to invite me in to their house for dinner, even though I was a stranger to them.

[-] 0 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

A cultural exchange program? That's like being a tourist! Come on, get real. Try going to Mexico without a visa of any sort, with no money, claim asylum and then try claim welfare and medical benefits and then have babies and get the Mexican drug lords to pay your children's tuition bills. Come on, do it. After all, that's what you expect the American tax payer to do, right?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Mexico has no social welfare system. And right now, there are very little or no laws regarding asylum seekers.

Again, your babbling is baseless.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Anyone who establishes residency in Mexico can get medical benefits there.... for the total of $600 USD a year. I know people who go there for the winter or who live there for good and who do it.

Again, quit talking about things you know NOTHING about. You sound like a babbling right winger.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"A cultural exchange program? That's like being a tourist!"

OK, I have to say it.... you're an idiot. I also was married to a Mexican, so I was a bit more than a tourist, and I didn't need a visa to do it. And ALL the people have treated me well there.... not just ones I bought shit from.

Um..... Americans don't need a visa to go to Mexico. Americans can freely walk across the border without any problems at all (I've done it several times, as I've already mentioned). The only time they check I.D. (a passport) is when flying in or going in on a cruise ship. Getting a visa IS NOT a requirement for us to go to Mexico. We need a passport to get back into the USA, but do not need one to walk into Mexico.

Before Bush 43 changed the law, we didn't even need a passport to get back into the USA from Canada or Mexico or the Caribbean. We simply could get back in with photo I.D. and proof of citizenship (birth certificate, voter I.D. card, state I.D. card, passport, etc.).

You're completely clueless. You'd fit right in with the idiot right wing here.

Please quit speaking about shit you have NO IDEA about.

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

I have actually been oppressed by "people of colour." Actually we, as a people, are listed at stage 6 of genocide on genocide watch, who keep stats for genocide committed around the world. However, seeing as we're White, we don't count. Obviously!

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Are you saying that you and others who think like you think you are being oppressed by people of color, because there are growing numbers of people of color in the USA? Are you in fear of becoming a minority here?

In what way(s) have you, personally, been specifically oppressed by people of color?

Maybe this is an explanation of why you feel that whites or White Christian Heterosexual Males are being oppressed by people of color...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/21/white.persecution/index.html

"The article found that the the U.S Census Bureau prediction that by 2050, White America will be a minority group, has fueled fears as it threatens to destabilize the status quo, which, some sociologists believe, has lead (some) White people to fear for their racial survival. So much so in fact, that Rush Limbaugh has even argued for a ‘civil rights movement’ for Republicans, as they are an ‘oppressed minority’."

[-] 1 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

I'm not an American! Gosh, when I say "your government", like I have in a previous comment, I really do mean "your government"! And anyway, becoming a minority in the land of your forefathers and not being permitted to defend oneself would be considered GENOCIDE! Just because leftist freaks don't acknowledge it but instead, promote it, doesn't make it any less true!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Um.... where did you say "your government" in this particular thread, because I'm not seeing it.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"So, what you're actually saying is that they're fighting Whites? Oh, that's good to know! Do I get to defend myself, as a White? Or even worse, as a White Christian Heterosexual Male? OMG, evil!!!"

So, if you're not American, and if you don't live in the USA, why are you even commenting? If you do live in the USA, even if you're not American, then you are under the laws of the U.S. government, whether you think it's your government or not.

The article is about people of color in the U.S. joining this movement for reasons they feel are justified.

[-] 0 points by Theundecidedpercent (24) 2 years ago

You obviously missed the part where your protest group invites everyone from around the globe to give their take on the matter.

And no, this article is about giving concessions to "people of colour" and their "people of colour" only groups, so as to have "diversity" in your protests.

And I find you comment quite surprising, considering leftists have butted into other countries business for the last 60 years. Why can you do it but not those of us on the other end of the political spectrum?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Um.... I haven't butted into any other country's business. I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. If you're talking about the U.S. government and military, you are wrong.... because civilians don't make decisions for those two entities.

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

What does skin color have to do with anything?

[-] 2 points by rebeldos (3) 2 years ago

Skin color has to do with a lot of things, unfortunately. Because we do live in a society that is racist, whose laws are still invariably more punitive and directed to the prosecution and incarceration of peoples of color, we have to recognize where our desires to overcome racism by ignoring "race" actually become a blind eye to systems of racial oppression.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Exactly.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

There is no such thing as society, there are only individuals.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Freedom2B is so unwilling to acknowledge facts that he/she must be a division troll. As Al Frankin said, "You can have your own Opinions but not your own Facts."

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

Sorry, but that sounds just like something Karl Rove famously said.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Oh, a Karl Rove fan. I didn't know anybody remembered anything he ever said. We remember seeing him dancing.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Oh a Karl Rove fan. I didn't know anybody remembered anything he ever said. We remember seeing him dancing.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

You seem to really have it out for anyone who contradicts your worldview. Good luck making friends.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Trolls do nothing but post bullshit. Why should anyone listen to them?

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

I wonder who is really doing the trolling here. I've been quite friendly in the majority of my posts and have refrained from using profanity in my responses. I suppose the next personal attack will claim I think I'm better than everyone else, right? Hmmm...

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Funny, seems like you were the one that got personal with me. You see this, just like everything else you say, is a lie.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

I didn't say "Freedom2B is so unwilling to acknowledge facts that he/she must be a division troll." ...you did.

If you choose to blatantly lie, at least make up something that can't be easily disproven.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I stand by my assertion. Freedom2B is so unwilling to acknowledge facts that he/she must be a division troll. You can have your own opinion but not your own facts. As for Ramos, if he calls the social position of Hyspanics to be one of social mobility than he must not be from Mexico, but Mars.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

We live in the least racist society on earth. The vestiges are kept alive and fed by the Democratic machine, which needs to manufacture faux racism to gin up votes.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"We live in the least racist society on earth."

That is one of the biggest lies I've ever heard. Denying racism doesn't make it go away. You are completely delusional about so many things.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

She didn't deny racism. She said we live in the least racist society on earth. Which, if you had a chance to live anywhere but the US, you might get to understand.

Don't forget that overplaying racism is also a way to keep us working minorities down. They want to keep us in the fields and poor and on welfare by making us think there are no opportunities. Don't you believe it. Well, I left picking strawberries and became a legal US immigrant. And now this is the only country in the world where me, a legal Hispanic turned citizen can be employed by a Korean and vote on a black president. That's not like that anywhere else in the world.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

FreeMarkets is a guy, and he's a troll. He lives in denial about everything.

And he did state in another post of his that racism here is fabricated by the left and doesn't exist.

"And now this is the only country in the world where me, a legal Hispanic turned citizen can be employed by a Korean and vote on a black president. That's not like that anywhere else in the world."

That's not true. There are many countries where there are people of mixed nationalities. To say that the USA is the only place where this can happen is being very shortsighted.

"They want to keep us in the fields and poor and on welfare by making us think there are no opportunities."

That would be the racists, not the anti-racists, doing that.

I was married to a college-educated Mexican guy, who was a legal resident at the time and who now is a U.S. citizen. I saw racism FIRST-HAND.

[-] 1 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 2 years ago

it doesn't fly to try to make yourself more mexican than me, chica. I think this is the first time i've been pissed off on these boards, however brief your marriage to him was, is still not the same as me being me and mexican and here for 49 years.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

You know, I really feel sorry for people like you. Here you are in a country that gives you upward mobility, class free opportunities, and a standard of living that even 100 years ago was not even attained by royalty, and you dream up all this negativity. The planet is warming. The sky is falling. White people are racist. It is utter nonsense.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The article on this site disagrees with you, and I believe something that has some research behind it before I believe anything out of your mouth any day....

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/odd-numbers/2007/07/26/the-most-racist-country-in-the-western-world/

Notice that the USA IS NOT listed as the least bigoted country in the world. Rather, Scandanavian countries win the top award along with our friendly Canadian neighbors.

Here is another article stating the same thing as the one above...

http://www.gadling.com/2008/01/30/the-most-tolerant-western-countries-and-the-most-racist/

A country need not have racist laws and policies to be deemed as racist. The attitudes of the masses are more what indicate if a country is racist or not. I'd bet that this country has become more racist since 911. All of the animosity about the mosque being built near Ground Zero and all kinds of other things speak for themselves. So many white people in California, Arizona, Texas, etc. are completely racist against Latinos.

The USA is FAR from being the least racist country in the world. I'd bet on the Scandanavian countries as being much more open, friendly, tolerant, etc.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Keep yourself in denial.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

It's about unity, not just the semblance of unity.

[-] 2 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Melanin unity? I don't get it. Why are you sorting people into bins based on their skin color? It's kind of strange, don't you think?

[-] 1 points by owstag (508) 2 years ago

It's the inevitable smiley faced apartheid of the left. It's incredibly divisive.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Not sorting people, unifying them.

[-] 1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

If I were in a crowd and people started sorting me out by skin color I would get very nervous. Why are they paying so much attention to this, I would wonder? Do they think something is wrong with me, that I'm helpless? Ar they going to hurt me?

Pretty bad craziness from my point of view

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

You see something wrong with people talking to other people?

[-] 1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

You refuse to address my point. I talk to all kinds of people all the time. I don't talk to them because their skin is a certain color. That is just weird.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

It's weird that one group of oppressed should work with another group of oppressed people to find common ways and means of ending their oppression? If you believe that than way are you even here?

[-] 1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Like most conservatives, I believe that a man should be judged on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. That's why we fought to end this type of thing, and find it so disturbing to see you all resurrect it.

[-] 0 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

You are in denial. It's you conservatives who perpetuate racism, sexism, oppression of gay people, transgender people, etc. It's you people who hate Latinos and other cultures so much. You are the ones saying, "Get the hell out of my country. Go home." It's not liberals saying that all the time, but you will just deny everything I've said..... because that's what you're really good at..... denying the truth and making up nonsense to satisfy your bloated ego.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Where do you get this stuff? While you don't have to believe in the Constitution, its another thing to dream up these wild fantasies about those who do. Stop watching Keith Olberman and reading the Daily Kos, and you will start calming down enough to see reality.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Wild fantasies? Your right wing legislators are advocating to oppress (and some already do) gay people's rights, rights of non-white skinned people, women (reproductive rights and in other ways), etc., and I personally know plenty of right wing white people who also stand for these things.

You're the one with wild fantasies. Denial doesn't erase the issues.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

We are not resurrecting it. It has not gone away. Anyone who looked objectively at the situation of Latinos, for example, in America, and came away with the idea that they enjoy equal treatment would simply be turning their back upon the obvious.

[-] 1 points by owstag (508) 2 years ago

To call 'Latinos' in the US 'oppressed' really makes a mockery of what real oppression is. First of all, 'Latinos' aren't even a 'race', but can be any race or mix of races and come from diverse socioeconomic strata. Why should a wealthy white Spaniards be considered 'oppressed' and an unemployed Eastern European immigrant be considered 'privileged'? It's inane; looking only at ethnic labels and ignoring the facts is the essence of racism.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Did I say "Spanish" as in being directly from Spain? No.... I said SPANISH-SPEAKING, which includes WAY MORE COUNTRIES than just Spain.... and those people who speak Spanish (other than Spaniards) have been oppressed by white people throughout history. That, in fact, IS why they speak Spanish, as you stated.

I think everyone knows when that Latinos are talking about equal rights, they are people who are from countries OTHER THAN Spain. It doesn't take a genius to figure THAT out.

[-] 0 points by owstag (508) 2 years ago

SwissMiss -

I am responding to your comment here rather than below because there is no 'reply' option below.

You are woefully historically ignorant. The Spanish are not historically oppressed people, they are white European historical oppressors. Spanish is spoken in the Americas for the same reason English is; it was imposed on the indigenous population by colonial oppressors.

[-] -1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Latinos are people who's first language is Spanish. Even though they are from different countries, they have their language in common and many cultural aspects. That's what unites them..... that and the fact that they (and other people of color) have been oppressed by white people throughout people history.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

Nearly all of the Hispanic friends I have had were hardworking and did not consider themselves oppressed. If you are referring to undocumented immigrants (which could describe any skin color or country of origin, by the way) perhaps that is somehow your concern. Personally, I'm in favor of open borders and a liberal immigration policy. America needs free trade and an open mind to immigration, but I don't think Americans are up for it in this economy.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

The Arizona bill to "check" anyone who "looks" like an immigrant without papers IS oppression of people of color.... particularly Latinos.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2B (23) 2 years ago

Gypsy...LOL! Now I'm the "1%"? I really wonder about your motivations, friend. I speak only for myself. If you are telling me you speak unopposed as the voice of all Hispanics, I say you're full of it.

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Both the above posts are clearly nothing more than failrly nuanced propaganda for the 1%. I'm not going to waste time on this kind of thing. I will, however, dialogue with people who deal with facts rather then fairytales. Ps . . . What's with this site moving posts out of context? I agree with SwissMiss entirely. To say Latinos aren't oppressed by the US power structure is ridiculous. What the hell were we doing in El Salvador?!!!

[-] -1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Yer in a crowd and yer nervous right now. 99% 100% solidarity.

[-] -1 points by Occupytheimf (134) 2 years ago

Strangest strawman argument contrived by u this hour

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Wow, what a sobering rejoinder! That's why everyone respects the erudition of Ron Lawl guys! They are so original, so innovative - they really amaze you with their powers of observation and deduction!

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 2 years ago

Sadly, I think cluelessness is genetic, although it does tend to fade as you age. Good luck "dialoging" with your other "oppressed" friends out there.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks, I think we will do that.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

"Sadly, I think cluelessness is genetic...."

You would know.