Today at 6pm, Union Square: Demand Justice for Trayvon Martin!
Posted 12 years ago on March 21, 2012, 6:07 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Join #OWS and Occupy The Hood as we march in solidarity with the 1000 Hoodies March to demand justice for Trayvon Martin!
TODAY: 6pm-9pm
1,000,000 Hoodie March for Trayvon Martin
Union Square, Manhattan
Follow #millionhoodies
On Facebook
Please support and respect the organizers of this march; Occupiers including Occupy the Hood will be marching in support. Trayvon Martin´s parents will be present at the march in NYC. Other marches are planned in Boston, DC, Miami, LA, Oakland, Chicago, Philadelphia, and many other cities.
1 million hoodies, 1 million signatures on Change.org... Show the world we are all Trayvon.
WEAR YOUR HOODIE ON WEDNESDAY 3/21 and upload a pic to Twitter, Facebook or Instagram with the hashtag #millionhoodies.
SIGN THE CHANGE.ORG PETITION - started by Trayvon's parents. Currently at 530,000 signatures, we can move the needle to 1 million this week!
JOIN US IN NYC - Throw on your hoodies and come gather in Union Square to show your support for justice for Trayvon Martin!
A black person in a hoodie isn't automatically "suspicious." Let's put an end to racial profiling!
Stalked and murdered a kid because he didn't like the way he looked, and not even charged with a crime?!? wtF
It's fear, the shooter was the one running the local neighborhood watch. I don't know if he had hero fantasies, hated or feared black people, or was just a moron. Florida's gun laws made this at least in technical terms a legal shooting. That kind of law has to be changed.
The fear is 'of a piece' with Ray Kelly's stop and frisk policies. Young people of color are considered guilty until proven innocent.
The Commissioner and the Mayor need to know that they set the standards for the nation. Since this is the biggest (one of the?) city in the nation it will be looked to for leadership and precedent.
An act of evil (NYC's unconstitutional stop and frisk policies) is like throwing a rock into a pond where the ripples expand infinitely, there's no telling where they will reach.
Incidentally, the authors' of the Florida 'Stand your ground' law, say the law doesn't cover this incident -- due to the shooter following Trayvon when the shooter was in no danger.
It's a different matter with the police, they at least have some training and there are procedures they are supposed to follow. I imagine crime statistics are used to some extent too. I do question the constitutionality of the stop and frisk policy, but if you had to you could justify it more then the stand your ground policy. Most states require you to retreat if possible, unless you're in your own home.
Good to know though that the investigation into Martin's shooting is taking the direction you indicated.
so you are saying, if someone confronts this man in the street and he puts up some kinda fight someone can shoot him? well then why hasnt anyone done this ??????
In Florida they have what they call a "stand your ground" law. You may legally shoot someone if you feel afraid of an attack. The person you are afraid of need not be armed. Most other states require you to retreat if possible, not so in Florida.
You may not attack someone, it's supposed to be only in self defense. The danger is if there are no witnesses and your "assailant" is dead, just your word that you were being attacked or you were in fear of an attack is enough to make the shooting legal. That's what happened in this case. This neighborhood watch vigilante shot the young black man then called police and claimed the boy attacked him and he was in fear for his life.
There may be some federal law that was violated, but sadly there is no proof that any Florida law was broken.
There is no limit to stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!
obviously it doesnt apply in this case as the man was following and harrassing the kid. i think the problem must be with the law enforcement not the law. does it say that if this happens it will not be investigated? as in this case? the law is a good law.
They are investigating, at both a State and Federal level. County Grand Jury meets on it in early April to see what charges if any might apply. There isn't anyone that actually observed any confrontation between the two. Someone has come forward and reported hearing some kind of confrontation but that's all. If no evidence can be found against him the man will likely remain free.
the kid was on the phone with his girlfriend. she said he told her the man was following him.. then she heard him say "what are you following me for' i think that is enough evidence to prove the man was the one that started the confrontation.
If this were a television crime show it would all be sorted out by the end of an hour. There are proceedings going on at multiple levels of government. Keep in mind how our legal system works. Once he's indicted for a crime, his right must be protected. The government has to be sure they have strong evidence and a reasonable chance of getting a conviction.
The way our legal system works is this: if you're black, you're arrested and held for trial, period. If you're Asian or Hispanic, you may be released on bail but you will plead guilty or face trial, period. And if you're white, you're released on your own recognizance and trusted to show up to court, if you're ever charged with a crime at all. And if you're a Republican, you're given a police escort home and a job on a campaign.
No faith at all in the justice system?
Zero. And I'm a white, middle class, male in the richest city in the country. The justice system has become nothing more than a neo-con tool of institutionalized bigotry and warmongering.
I don't believe, I know that nearly every decision made in Federal courts has absolutely nothing to do with law. I don't believe, I know that every case the Supreme Court agrees to review is based on the neo-con agenda of dismantling the New Deal and every possible check on executive and military power. I don't believe, I know that the vast majority of the entire American judicial system represents the most sophisticated corruption the world has ever seen. And I don't believe, I know that the vast majority of lawyers in the country don't care about anything but themselves, that all judges started as lawyers and that anyone outside the profession is viewed as chattel.
There are good, caring lawyers in the world. None of them get more than a token promotion or a chance to run for DA or go into their own practice. Because the profession doesn't reward caring professionals, it rewards cutthroat mercenaries. To think that any of those people are capable of an altruistic thought, ever, is the height of naivete. Most successful lawyers care about one thing: their bank accounts. They are feral cats on steroids and treating them as anything but the wild animals they are is a huge mistake. Leopards don't change their spots.
And as for the cops, if you've seen them at work during "blue flu" season, you know they are essentially a legal gang of thugs. Are there good cops? Yes, for a few months. But if you survive in a massively corrupt police department for more than a year or two, you're either the smartest, most devious saint in history, or you've bought into the program. Guess which my money is on. ;-)
But fearing black people in many cases is rational. Deal with that. This boy died perhaps because of a reactionary community watch guy operating too much on stereotypes, but you can also blame the large number of feral teenage blacks with the behavior that makes many of those stereotypes rational. It's just fact.
Another uncomfortable fact is that far and away, most black teens are killed by other black teens. The media was off and running with this story as a white on black thing until they were embarrassed to learn the guy was hispanic. But at least as far as whites killing blacks goes, that's very rare.
The protests are a practice in denial of both facts.
"Fearing black people" is only rational 1) if you're not black AND 2) if you have some reason to be afraid, like maybe because you're a bigot, for instance. So basically you have no idea what you're talking about and your total ignorance is dangerous for our country. "Feral black teenagers?" You want to see feral, look at the meth epidemic in America and pay attention to all those white faces, Rudyard:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/
It's true that more blacks are killed by other blacks than any other ethnic group. How exactly does that justify this murder again?
Some reason to be afraid? For instance, if you're rational and not blinded by what you wish was true.
It doesn't justify this murder. How you'd come up with that one is beyond me. But the moral outrage of this killing against the reality backdrop is a little easier to interpret for what it is: race politics.
If you're rational, you deal with the world as it is, not as your paranoia thinks it is.
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Fearing black people is rational???
What group are you thinking for?
Sure, it is at times. The idea that negative stereotypes are just all made up is ridiculous.
That boy is dead in part, I believe, because of stereotypes about young black males. If one's genuinely interested in making tragedies like this less likely, it would help to mange the stereotypes and to also reduce the behavior that leads to the stereotypes in the first place. Simply pretending that the stereotype has no basis in fact, that it's simply made up out of thin air, may be comforting, perhaps even to you, but it isn't real and dealing with what's real is the best way to make things better.
The politically correct deniers, and it reads as though you're one of them, believe in a fantasy.
You're exceedingly twisted, and failed to make your case.
If you want to go through your life fearing "others"? Then I guess you will, but that doesn't make it rational.
It's irrational.
What group did you say you're thinking for?.
Tell me about it. Sure, take a major city, make it 11pm, not a lot of other people around, see a group of young blacks that look like gang bangers (you, of course, would say there's no such look, LOL... you maintain there's nothing to worry about, I'll head the other way.
The stereotype that contributed to this kid's death has a basis in reality and isn't just something made up out of thin air. He's a victim of the shooter, of course, but he's also a victim of the behavior of other young black males that contributed to the stereotype. The protesters pretend that's to true; they're wrong.
I live in the most populated county in the country. I have blacks in groups on my streets every day. No, I do not go a different way. Sometimes -- and I know this may come as a shock to you -- sometimes I even talk to them! Sometimes we tell jokes to each other about shitheads like you and laugh and laugh and laugh...
And yes, that stereotype is an invention out of thin air. You know how many black girls went missing last year? Of course not. Only missing white girls are reported in the news. You know how many more petty crimes were committed by whites than blacks last year? Of course not, because the media is run by white people, for white people. The media defined stereotype you're describing, not reality. But if you think you can prove your points with statistical evidence to back it up, by all means go get it.
I won't be holding my breath.
You have a computer, I don't need to be your social research source. The criminality and social breakdown issues among young black males is real. Race is such a difficult topic and being labelled racist is such a toxic smear that many are willing to simply go into denial mode rather than to admit what's real. This boy died, not just because of the stereotype, but the behavior that helped generate and validate the stereotype. But Reverend Al wants us all to believe the second part doesn't exist, you too apparently.
Dealing with the negative side effects of stereotypes and profiling would be a lot easier if the conversation didn't start with something as ridiculous as saying that they're all just made up. But I won't hold my breath for that breakthrough. It's just too painful of a truth and too many, like Reverend Al, have built careers on their denial.
I'm a 25 year media professional. Don't try to sell me on something I know from the inside. Television is the most pervasive social experiment in the history of humankind and we're still just scratching the surface of its psychological impact on society and culture. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Zero.
Thanks for that info. I'll be using it later on elsewhere in this forum. Dig it!
Ruh roh! Is that reference to my "boomer" post? I really pushed more buttons than I intended with that one but I should have known since I was criticizing the largest voting bloc in America. ;-)
The Dude abides.
Maybe ;-)
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This is still just as twisted and irrational.
In fact it's about as shallow as it can be.
Try the shoe on the other foot, and see where you're walking.
Great, but living that fantasy in the real world is a great way to get car-jacked.
Your last point makes no sense. My personal preference to not being on the losing end of those stereotypes has nothing to do with their merit. I think life can be extraordinarily tough for young black males that aren't living the stereotype, especially those that happen to have natural characteristics that make them appear more threatening (like simply being big). This kid's death is part of that. But that too doesn't make the stereotype false.
The kid died for, it appears, a couple of reasons: 1) A guy with a trigger finger that was perhaps especially paranoid operating on a stereotype; 2) The behavior of other young black males that helped create the stereotype. If the Sharpton poverty-pimps were honest, they'd lay part of the blame for this kid's death on the pervasive feral behavior of other young black males that makes discrimination rational. The poverty pimps make the ridiculous claim that the stereotype is simply made up. Look around and have the courage to admit that's a lie.
You use terms like "poverty pimp" and "pervasive feral behavior", and you expect anyone to think you're expressing something rational?
Just so you know, you're not. You're giving expression to irrationalism.
It's all in your perception. It's not a thing of color. It's a thing of behavior, that you've attempted to hang on a color.
That's irrational..
That describes people like Sharpton perfectly. He's made a career out of race baiting and the peddling of victimhood. Here's his most infamous example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations
It is pervasive feral behavior. That's a cultural and behavioral problem centered among young black males. In terms of association with color, it is a color thing as in the behavior correlates heavily with color. I guess we can wish it didn't, but it does. It creates a real bitch of a situation for young black males that are just trying to do the right thing. And that's part of why, from what we know so far, this kid is dead.
Lots of stereotypes have merit. The advertising industry is built on the their validity. Why do you think ads for shotguns tend to appear in outdoor oriented magazines? Isn't that foolish? Why aren't the ads equally distributed across Field and Stream, Vanity Fair, and Out Magazine? We all belong to an array of groups that correlate with different opinions and behaviors. They aren't foolproof, but they generally get it pretty right.
You must be fascinated when a government profiling expert helps solve a criminal case by narrowing down the person they're likely looking for. it must seem like magic as there's no such thing as correlations in behaviors or points of view.
This kid, it appears, is the victim of the shooter and also the behavior of other young black males that set the table for the stereotype that made this apparently innocent kid a suspect too.
Pretty good hang the behavior on a color.
Good luck in your world travels...................;)
You're gonna' need it.
Never apply for the job on Madison Avenue, skip going for the major in statistics, and never ever get into a betting game where you place money on the idea that stereotypes are no better indicators than random guesses.
Betcha didn't think this conversation would get that heated, did you? Don't let it sway you, sometimes you need a thick skin around here. 'Racial profiling' is a pretty touchy subject in the US lately, thanks to the actions of various police departments in recent years.
It is touchy and it should be. Being on the losing end of it is a painful experience. But dealing with the problems by saying that the profile, any profile, lacks credibility and effectiveness is simple denial.
To make profiling less of a problem, we need to be sensitive about their use, but also work at the underlying situation that makes the profile so reliable. The young black male crime dynamic brings pressure on young black males living good lives, not solely racism.
Asking people to be sensitive about profiles loses credibility from the start when you try to tell them the profile doesn't work; it's too obvious for that.
I could agree that a lot of our fears have some justification. I think in this case a man with a gun patrolling his neighborhood with little on no training and no legal right to stop and question people played a role in the death.
I wasn't there to see who began the confrontation or how it escalated, but in the end an innocent boy was killed by someone that inserted himself into the situation. There was no need to do more then call the police and watch where the boy went.
Please consider madam, IF it is possible that many lifetime's worth of Propaganda, Prejudice and Poor-Portrayal are at the real root of "fears have(ing) some justification." and also that the history and reality of 'racism' runs very deep within the psyche of America !!
ad iudicium ...
It doesn't matter what the root cause of fear is in this case. When fear is permitted by law to be the justification for using a gun, it doesn't matter if its origin is actual threat, experience, prejudice or propaganda.
Consider : "Fear" is the absence of "Love" !!! Bring "Love" to bear on the equation !! fiat lux !
Doesn't matter what fear is or if you bring light or enlightenment into things. There will always be fear and if you let that justify killing all the love and light others feel doesn't matter.
May Trayvon Martin's horrendous murder, serve in some way to soften hearts and open minds.
Perhaps with 'heart and head' ; 'love and logic' - "fear" can be overcome such that it can never be used to "justify killing" and the terrible murder of innocents.
pax, amor et lux ...
See my comment a couple below. Yes, the shooter carries some blame; that appears clear. After all, he shot the boy.
My point really is the utter denial among the protesters that there's anything to the negative stereotype is a white wash denial, no pun intended. Of course, there's something to it. This boy is partly a victim of the correct stereotype driven by the feral behavior of other young blacks. People may not assess things like that 100% correct, but they sure as hell don't assess it as 100% wrong as the protesters claim.
Every once in a while, you'll see a news story where some celebrity, typically black, dresses like some thug and then gets followed around a store of shaken down by a cop. They react in outrage in a "gotcha" moment where the store or whomever has to apologize for the error and we all pretend that the stereotype tripped by the celebrity is utterly baseless.
I'd love to be in that situation. My response would be, "Danny Glover can be right this time. But I'll keep my stereotype and settle for being right the next 75 times in a row because Danny Glover doesn't pay my shoplifting bill. Now fuck off."
If we thought more about what's real, we'd have a better chance of helping kids like this. It's gotta be very tough being that young black person that's doing everything right when it's so common that people that look like you are doing everything wrong. The concept now is that white people just make it all up and that's why life is tough. But if we really want that kid's life to improve, we need to look honestly at why he's under pressure. The protesters aren't willing to have that conversation.
Here's a good thing to try some time. Ask a black cabdriver in Chicago about picking up black clients. I've done this a number of times. They'll tell you how cautious they are. Now, are they just stupid or acting out of malice or are they dealing with a reality that too many won't confront?
So, 'groupNOthink' - "fearing black people in many cases is rational", is it ? "Many Cases", eh ?!
NO it is NOT - but your incorrigible prejudices won't let you see past your own twaddle and utter BS !!
When the chips are down, "Black People" have had FAR more to fear from 'white people' and this is a harsh truth obvious to everyone - no matter what colour - with the eyes to see and the wit to realise !!!
YOU "are a practice of denial" of the "fact" of you wearing your own (..x..) as a hat !
nosce te ipsum ...
But it isn't irrational. We need a hard conversation in this country about what's real. And what's real is that there is a cultural and behavioral problem centered among young black teen males. What's also real is that stereotypes can be misapplied, exaggerated, and cruel. They can also be false at times. But then can also be largely true and the result of simple observation and learning.
The sad part about stereotypes is that they produce collateral damage, like perhaps what contributed to this boy's death. So, if one is looking for blame in this case, lay some at the foot of the shooter and perhaps even the law that gave such latitude to a shooting like that, but be sure to also lay some of the blame on the behavior of other feral black young people that rightly have generated such a negative stereotype and which resulted in this kid too becoming an instant suspect. But you'll never see Reverend Al owning up to that one.
So, are only black youth "feral" ?!!!
Consider that the other great unspoken reality of the socio-political culture of The U$A is "Class" !!
ad iudicium !
Nope, but there's a concentration of the problem in that community. And because they're black, it's simply easier to link operate the stereotype.
But you know the answer. You're just unwilling to say what you too must know. It's truly a willful ignorance to suppress what we all know.
Your "class" comment leaps over the validity of the stereotype and straight into apologizing for the behavior that underlies the stereotype. Stop in the middle. Just admit the stereotype has merit. Twisting reality can mean someone's racist, but never simply admitting what is.
Assume nothing of what I do or do not know - I'm not from the U$A and as for "wilful ignorance", mate if you're in The U$A, you're living in a country awash in it at a multitude of levels and on myriad matters !!!
'Explaining' is Never "apologising" and without an understanding of "class"/socio-economic realities as well as history, you are destined to chase your tail & when frustrated, revert to simple base prejudices !!
So, consider who is "twisting" which "reality" !
ad iudicium ...
Yeah, another America hater. Seen it before, heard it before.
I realize that some people aren't capable of seeing the underlying reality; I get that.
That really is some extremely lazy 'thinking' indeed !
If I "hated Americans" I wouldn't be here wasting time on you !!
I'm afraid that you "get" very little really but you do a fine line in 'reaction' !!!
nosce te ipsum ...
Nice kick to the balls. But ultimately? Useless I think as it likely gets kicked in the crotch so often if it still has balls they are likely in a jar.
When I grew up the feral kids in my area were white. All white.
What ? Some unbeliever might say in astonishment.
True I would say.
As our 1st Black kid in the community didn't come to town untill I was in 9th grade.
And ? You might well ask.
The only feral kids in the area where I grew up - were white.
"Feral" for want of a better word, is a true function of "class"/socio-economics and to regard it as contingent on skin tone is less of a fallacy as it is a blatant lunacy !!!
verum ex absurdo ...
It is also a common behavior in youth - to be wild and unrestrained. That is youth and that is the oversight and responsibility of community. Find good avenues/outlet for the wild exhilaration of youth.
Cheers :-) I'll be looking to do just that, lol !!
Laughing.
I think I can trust you to take you at your word.
Have Fun.
You are missing a very important point- BECAUSE OF THE "STAND YOUR GROUND" LAW
Zimmerman cannot be prosecuted - unless he had made those phone calls
black on black -- black on white -- wihite on white -- white on black
with no witnesses - murder is a freebie in florida.
Stand your ground only means you are not compelled to attempt retreat before using deadly force. This guy stalked and apparently attacked and then killed an unarmed kid. He was not fearing for his life until he tried to grab a random kid off the street. Is that not reason for the kid to defend himself?? Had this plain clothed dude not jumped out of his car with a gun in his hand, there would have been no incident.
The apparent position of the police is the one they use themselves; "This guy resisted, when I attacked him, so I had do defend myself!" With logic like that, is it any wonder.
Don't you understand you can defend yourself, if you have a gun. if not you are not allowed to defend yourself, got it?
Stand your ground very specifically means that if A kills B and there are no witnesses, all A needs to say is "I felt threatend" and unless the police can PROVE that A did not feel threatend A goes free. How do you PROVE that B's hand in his pocket holding a set of keys was NOT percieved by A as a gun? YOU CAN'T
'A' took actions that would reasonably result in 'B' taking a defensive stance, then 'A' kills 'B' and claims he felt threatened by 'B'? This makes a joke of logic and reason. 'A' can not claim to have 'felt threatened' when 'A' pull a gun on 'B', an unarmed man. Where is the treat? It entirely comes form 'A' and his stalking and pulling a gun on 'B'.
If the police do not arrest 'A' they are aiding a murderer (where was his drug and alcohol tests?), and the police should be also held to account.
The problem is that it does not matter what B says or does -
if A says "I felt threatened and so I had t o stand my ground" That law ends the police action. Essentially B's statement is irrelevant - because he is dead - so the law syas you must believe A!
Querry under the law does, A have to use a gun, or could he invoke "stand your ground" if he used a knife, just wondering.
I do not KNOW - but this was a bill heavily pushed by the NRA to sell guns.
I assume any [ unwitnessed ] crime against a person could be covered. And of course, if the only witness is dead - there are no witnesses.
Here's a disgusting question -
If A murders B and the notices C is a witness, A can murder C too - a freebie.
How could we reduce the surplus population without the help of the NRA?
I heard that since law this was passed in 2005 (or 2006) the florida murder rate is up. But that's good for scott.
you can if your on the phone telling someone that someone is following you. seems simple enough to me. its the police at fault here ,, not the law
the police told zimnernan - seconds before the murder "we dont need you to follow him"
the NRA's "stand your ground" will cause more murders - and MUST be repealed. Then, when the Citizens United SCOTUS ruling is overthrown along with Buckley & corporate personhood, the NRA will no longer be able to buy a law.
then they know he was the instigator not the victim.. the law needs to stand, normal people do not chase others around looking for trouble. the law is for them. when im walkin down the street and some guy accost me ,, i want to know its ok to shoot him . cause theres no way i can fight him, should i just be forced by law to allow him to do what he pleases
This will be proven. This Zimmerman dude was following and stalking this boy. He should turn himself in if he has any conscience at all. And, you are right, this law should be changed as well as the gun laws. But, in the end, a gun is a hunk of metal and it takes a human finger to pull the trigger.
There was a witness of sorts. His girlfriend was on the phone with him and in her phone call you can hear what was being said by Zimmerman and the boy.
Rest In Peace, Trayvon Martin - very sadly yet another victim who was murdered merely for 'WWBB' - 'Walking Whilst Being Black' !!!
Trayvon Martin 911 Tapes : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnItpb-NQ64&feature=related &
"Strange Fruit", by Nina Simone : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktsU01lfzLU .....
& more famously by Billie Holiday : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnlTHvJBeP0 :-(
Requiscat In Pace ...
Thank you for posting the link to the 911 calls, shadz66. Just tragic to listen to.
'bw' : Yes. Tragic. Yet a tragedy with deep roots in US society I fear and hence the links to renditions of Abel Meeropol's (aka Lewis Allan) haunting poem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Fruit ) and song.
fiat justitia ruat caelum ...
That is a very moving and fitting song.
Yes - thank God the witnesses here were here!
Without them, justice for Trevon would be impossible
under the law that the NRA bought and paid for.
A person cannot invoke the 'stand your ground' law if he initially provokes the attack against himself. This man assaulted Trayvon TWICE. The kid was walking through his neighborhood on the way back home after buying candy, chatting with his friend on his cell phone, when George Zimmerman came after him. George Zimmerman has injuries from the resulting confrontation.George Zimmerman stalked and pursued this kid, who used self defense to get away from him once when Zimmerman tried to use physical force on him.
Given the fact that they both had injuries from a physical confrontation, and we have credible witnesses to the fact that Trayvon Martin wanted nothing to do with the fight, this is a very simple case that has absolutely nothing to do with self defense. George Zimmerman caught this kid, assaulted him once, then stalked him through a neighborhood after being specifically told not to by the 911 operator. He caught up with him and shot him once, while Trayvon Martin was on the ground, begging for his life and screaming for help. The last person (other than George Zimmerman) to see Trayvon alive was a witness to a man on the ground, screaming for help.
This is not a self-defense case. This isn't a 'shooting' or a 'killing' or an 'accident'. This is a very simple case of a man with a gun following a teenager, assaulting him, then chasing him down and executing him.
This is First Degree Murder. Any lawyer in Florida that can't make that connection needs to have their Bar card revoked.
The fact that the police ran background checks and drug screens on the dead (black) victim and not on the live (white) man with the gun is an entirely different issue of racism and police injustice. But at the end of the day, no amount of bad police work changes the fact that a hostile man armed with a pistol repeatedly pursued and attacked an unarmed teenager, and finally murdered him. The word you're looking for is murder.
Racism must be stamped out in this country. Taken up by it's roots and stamped out! Enough! Do not let this boy die in vain.
I'm not saying there wasn't a racist element involved, but I blame Florida's gun laws. Take a young untrained man doing a neighborhood watch with a gun, add Florida's insane stand your ground law, and you get a fatal shooting where no actual crime was committed.
And, take a black boy walking down the street holding a bag of skittles....
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the gun law should stand. if someone actually confronts you on the street you will be glad you have the right to shoot him. this incident has nothing to do with that law. the kid was not confronting that man. the DA they elected is the one to blame for the lack of prosecution . people should remeber this when election time roles around next time.
This gun law has the potential for abuse. In this particular case I don't know in detail what story the shooter told the police. I do know there were no witnesses and so there is only one version of events. There is going to be a Grand Jury hearing on April 10 and the Federal authorities are looking into it from a civil rights angle. It may be that this neighborhood watch person can be shown to have caused the whole incident. It always takes a while for legal cases to work themselves out.
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Here's an interesting video clip from MSNBC from 3/23/12 where Karen Finney explores the Koch Brothers involvement in the creation of the "Stand Your Ground" laws that exist today in 30 states:
http://newblackman.blogspot.com/2012/03/nra-koch-brothers-and-stand-your-ground.html
best thing I've seen about this, thank you for posting
Karen Finney is very good, being MSM and all!
I like how she started off talking about the bigger picture, I want to see data on all the "justified homicides" across the country where these laws are in place, being from the south, I am well aware of how denial of protection is the first and maybe worst racism. .
Thanks Beautifulworld, An important conversation which asks important questions. Questions about procedure and competence of law enforcement. There is no doubt that Zimmerman was wrong that he is guilty of murder, that he stalked Trayvon forced a confrontation and killed him. Lock up Zimmerman and begin proceedings under the law.
Having said that. I think it is important to note who has brought these stand and defend laws into being and to understand how the laws are set-up to be detrimental.
These laws are set-up to promote confrontation. They may well end up endangering Americans right to bear arms.
If the law had been written for the right to defend your self and your family in your own home from individuals breaking in, that would make a lot more sense than promoting vigilantly justice in the streets.
This could be a precursor to having the public demand that they are disarmed ( the public disarmed ). That would truly leave the public defenseless. Because then the only one carrying arms would be the police and the criminals, and since the police can not be everywhere at once, it leaves the innocent exposed and endangered.
I really think therising has hit on something with his latest post. We have much deeper issues as a society and that is why these laws have found their way onto the books in the first place. What kind of world do we want to live in? We really need to ask that question.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-does-those-involved-in-the-occupy-movement-wa/
I feel like more and more people will join if we can not just talk about what we're against but also show what we're for, what life might be like if we begin to succeed. I hope we can talk more about what it will be like to wake up in the morning in this " new world that is possible.". Because once people see the endgame here, the details of the resistance will have CONTEXT.
I also think it helps strengthen and sustain those within the movement to connect regularly with where we're headed. The movement will gain much more strength if we can coalesce around a positive vision of the future instead of just decrying and protesting dystopia.
Morning rising, pardon me for butting in, but here's what I want to know, since 2005, how many deaths involving two people, where one black one white how many homicides, how many were justified and I think the numbers would show that every white on black act of violence should be looked at by an independent body, not tied to what I think is a racist law, in the way it is being applied.
Very true.
Yes I have been there. He has started a very important post and introduced it beautifully.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-does-those-involved-in-the-occupy-movement-wa/
Thanks, DKAtoday. Hope you have a great day!
You too. You appear to be in fine form as usual. Don't forget to rest and recharge.
In many places of the world the "disarmed public" does quite well.
This is a very interesting comment, point and link and is very important to truly understanding the background to these tragic events.
Thanx for your diligent researches 'bw'.
fiat lux ....
"It is said that a total ban on handguns, including .22s, would take away innocent pleasure from thousands of people. Is that more or less pleasure than watching your child grow up?" ~ Sean Connery
Our prayers go out to the Martin family during this time of so much grief and horror. The strength and courage they're showing is beyond anything I've ever seen. Their son's murder is an event that will long be remembered by many, many people.
Clearly a racist murder condoned by the police and media until finally his bereaved family was able to break through the curtain. Good on OWS for what it's doing!
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I'll be there!!!
IMHO- the issue is not Travon
the issue is not racism
the issue is not out of control gun nuts
the issue is not guns
the issue is not the NRA
the issue is not the NRA purchased Floridian politicians
the issue is not the "stand your ground" law
the issue is US
We elected the NRA purchased politicians who voted for this inevitable tragedy
We are the problem
We are the solutiuon - pledge not to vote for any one
................................... ............who voted FOR this law
In a big picture sense you are completely right.
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Was Zimmerman ever brought to police station for questioning?
This was a terrible tragedy, but seriously, why is OWS getting involved with this? If we are going to change anything in this world, we need to stay focussed on holding the banks accountable, getting money out of politics and addressing income inequality. It really frustrates me that so many activists cant just focus on one thing and they jump at the chance to protest almost anything that comes up. Granted, it does look there was an injustice done here, but, we cant say for sure, none of you were there and there have been conflicting witness accounts. Furthermore, the justice department, the FBI, the state police and a Seminole county grand jury are all launching investigations into this case....so why dont we at least wait and see what happens with that, could be the state and the feds will get the job done.....but we know they are not prosecuting wall street so that is where we should continue to focus are energy
We're involved in this because it's the right thing to do. And there's a bigger picture here, but you know this, misterioso. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMk-AzSN6Cw
Why waste your time with a march in New York? Take the fight to Florida, where the shooting happened and fight against the Florida "stand your ground" law. It's that law that has allowed the killer to be let go uncharged.
Even the petition in this case is a waste of time, the shooter has been investigated, it's that idiotic stand your ground law that will prevent him from being charged.
rent a couple of buses for us and we'll go my friend.
Feeling entitled? Your protest you supply your transport. I'd be curious to know how many of those that show have a clue about the circumstances of this case. Protesting against a Florida death due to a bad Florida law in New York.
You're the one who said it's pointless to protest in NYC. Now you're telling people to go to Florida to protest and are saying that they think they are entitled by asking for sponsored buses. Maybe most people can't afford to go to Florida, dumb ass.
Yes I'm saying protesting a Florida law in New York is foolish. I have a right to that opinion, just as you have the right to ignore it and protest when and where you wish. It's childish to assume that someone else should pay for a more effective protest for you. There are other ways people can help other then mounting an ineffective protest. Many civil rights organizations are establishing a presence there. Your protestors could donate to them if they wanted to do some real good. It would be helpful but not as showy as marching.
The shooting was only a month ago, it's being investigated both by Florida and the federal government. This isn't a television crime show where the bad guy goes to jail in an hour. There is a Grand Jury meeting on April 10 on this case. You're protest over an injustice is a bit premature for the real world. If the shooter is charged his rights as the accused become paramount in our system of justice and the prosecutors are moving carefully to ensure they will have the evidence needed for a conviction.
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Paul Krugman outlines the contributions of corporations and ALEC to the implementation of legislation such as "Stand Your Ground" and the movement to privatize the government in this compelling op-ed piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/krugman-lobbyists-guns-and-money.html
I recently posted about how some people want the state to be able to stick their hands under your skirt or down your pants and into your private parts. People would ask me:
What’s this got to do with OWS?
Then I see this post which confirms what I had thought all along. It seems that about 99% of Americans see religious, sexual, racial, and monetary bigots with a choke hold around our government at all kinds of levels, and OWS is about busting our government loose from that death grip.
BTW I hope that this attention grows to look at everything since this treibble “stand your ground” law was passed.
**I do highly suggest that we have a market run on hoodies. Everywhere, right NOW!!!
Everyone should go out and buy one, wear it, and show the world. This symbol will let everyone know, In this time, this place, we all stand as one, we have again come to well of solidarity. We need to make it a habitual promise to all of us, to never forget, what we do to each other, we do this to ourselves. If any lesson is ever to be learned from this world, it's we always stand firmly as one, we always have each other's back, always we care, we care about each other. If your not making it I'm not making it.
And it's true for me, I am making it, life is good for me, and I'm not asking for more. But I'm not making it because I look out at the window and my fellow human beings aren't making it. The world does have way too much suffering and we can do something about it and,,, if we're not, we have defiled our very purpose being on this planet --- right NOW>.
The Puzzler
Great rally yesterday, except that the NYPD corralled us in a big giant circle (right back to Union Square, where they closed the damn subway station). Maybe the route was planned by the march organizers, I don't know, but anyway, good rally, glad I was there.
Thank you OWS for taking a stand on any/all issues that cry out for JUSTICE.
Please, I BEG OF YOU. NEVER STOP FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE!!! No matter what color the skin tone may be.
Rather you realize this or not, there are millions of people who support the Occupy Movement, we may not be on the FRONT LINES with you.
But just know that OUR SPIRIT LOVES YOU ALL!!!
God Bless
Remain safe out there.
Luv
Your sister.
great cause. but, you guys always announce these things at the last minute. give me at least a week to prepare for the event. sheesh.
What you all need to do is get it through young people's head that they can't go around beating people up. I tell you what, people won't put up with bull shit like they did The last time people rioted over "injustice" . You guys better exercise your 1st amendment peacefully or there are going to be a lot Trayvon Martins because people are sick and tired of violence and destruction caused by you jackasses when you don't get your way. So like I said, exercise your 1st amendment peacefully and don't make anybody exercise there 2nd amendment because they will.
If you really wanted to make a difference, why don't you cowards occupy Chicago where the real murders are taking place daily. I challenge you guys to show the world that you really want to make a difference and just don't want a place to get high while your unemployed asses blame the world and hard working people for your failures.
""NATO is staging "Massacre of Christians in Syria by Muslims", by bringing Al Qaida and other radical Islamists to Syria, in order to initiate a war, where they can nuke Iran, give a lesson to rising China, control Middle East oil resources, and allow some people to print as much money as they wish by using petrodollars, so they can control the society and the world through their wealth and power. This will also allow capitalism to continue by breaking the Eastern and the Socialist spirituality which is growing around the world and which is the biggest threat to capitalist ruling elite. ""
So from what corporation are the million hoodies going to be purchased? I would like to buy some of their stock.
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What happened next?
The controversy begins with the second phase -- the aftermath of the shooting.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-20120322,0,4469238.story
please state who Trayvon Martin is
in the main subject
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What you all need to do is get it through young people's head that they can't go around beating people up. I tell you what, people won't put up with bull shit like they did the last time people rioted over "injustice" . You guys better exercise your 1st amendment peacefully or there are going to be a lot Trayvon Martins because people are sick and tired of violence and destruction caused by you jackasses when you don't get your way. Don't shit in public. And pick up after yourselves. I know it's hard because none of you like to work. So like I said, exercise your 1st amendment peacefully or people will exercise their 2nd amendment unpeacefully.
so I heard it was an hispanic that killed him, not a white guy like the scumbags in the major media first accused
martin was the perpetrator.he attacked zimmerman.
Provide proof for that absurd statement. Have you heard the 911 calls I have. The one from the murderer was very enlightening.
have you read the news story cited on drudge?
Sited on what?
Why don't you provide a link. If you think it will contain any more vital information then the killer did when talking to 911.
I mean the written word of someone who was not there has so much more impact than the killers own spoken words after all.
Right?
go to the drudge report,......................its on the front page, left side.
Post the link for all to share you are familiar with the location and the article. Be assertive and active click a couple of buttons in support of your argument ( accusation ).
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
That's it? Sorry not even close to good enough.
"A black person in a hoodie isn't automatically "suspicious." Let's put an end to racial profiling!"
Jesse Jackson: There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.... After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating. Remarks at a meeting of Operation PUSH in Chicago (27 November 1993). Quoted in "Crime: New Frontier - Jesse Jackson Calls It Top Civil-Rights Issue" by Mary A. Johnson, 29 November 1993, Chicago Sun-Times (ellipsis in original). Partially quoted in US News & World Report (10 March 1996)
Dan, in the wake of Trayvon Martin's death, please sign our petition asking Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate the Sanford Police Department's history of failing to prosecute violent crimes against African-Americans.
http://kos.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=T/6O4aYJ570rBkEaQdapxRZ9%2BVgG3bQ3
The Department of Justice has announced that its Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, will investigate Trayvon Martin's death. This is a positive step.
http://kos.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Z5Sy2OBLQpqXzFC4DWQzghZ9%2BVgG3bQ3
However, the Sanford Police Department has a history of failing to successfully prosecute crimes when the victim is African-American and the alleged assailant is not. This happened not only in the case of Trayvon Martin, but also in 2005 and 2010. In both of those earlier cases, the white son of a Sanford police officer was involved.
In addition to the Department of Justice's investigation into Trayvon Martin's death, a simultaneous investigation of the Sanford Police Department itself needs to be undertaken. Even the city commissioners of Sanford, Florida have now voted that they have no confidence in the police chief.
http://kos.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=k2J6GpvOyKUcD%2Bf1qJIhFhZ9%2BVgG3bQ3
Please, sign our petition asking Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate the Sanford Police Department's pattern of failing to prosecute violent crimes against African-Americans.
Keep fighting, Meteor Blades, Daily Kos
For the family of Trayvon Martin - For all of our family's I hope you will consider. I signed and posted it to twitter and Facebook. Can you spread the word?
Petition request:
http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&me=aa&utm_campaign=NbYqYZRNGG&alert_id=NbYqYZRNGG_yGuxCyojPY
Dan -
Our son didn't deserve to die. Trayvon Martin was just 17 years old when he was shot and killed by George Zimmerman. Trayvon wasn't doing anything besides walking home with a bag of Skittles and some iced tea in his hands.
What makes Trayvon's death so much harder is knowing that the man who confessed to killing him, George Zimmerman, still hasn't been charged for Trayvon's killing.
That's why we started a petition on Change.org calling for Zimmerman's prosecution and trial. We aren't looking for revenge, we're looking for justice -- the same justice anyone would expect if their son were shot and killed for no reason.
Click here to join 900,000 people who have already signed our petition calling for justice for our son Trayvon.
No family should ever have to go through this nightmare. The law should protect everyone, regardless of where they live, how much money they make, or what color their skin is.
With our petition at 900,000 signers so far, we've made important progress toward making some sense out of what happened. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement will investigate Trayvon's death, and so will the FBI and Department of Justice.
But Trayvon's killer is still free. The surest path to justice runs through Sanford, Florida, and through the office of State's Attorney Norman Wolfinger, who is responsible for bringing charges against Zimmerman. With your help, we believe he'll have no choice but to give Trayvon and his killer their days in court.
Please sign our petition calling on Florida authorities to prosecute our son's confessed killer.
Thank you so much.
What does this have to do with wall street? Isn't asuming that all white people are as rasicst as the one who comitted the crime also profiling? What does being the 99% have to do with anything? You have a valid reason to protest, but your making idiots out of you self by calling it a class warfare revolution. This murder has to do with justice not being carried out, not corruption of Wall Street. Protest the courts to get the law to change. What will wearing hoodies on Wall Street do to help the family of Trayvon Martin. It makes his death a mockary instead of a martyr. If you want to bring around real change demand the shutdown of the police department that did not charge the murder, call for the impeachment of officails who did nothing to help Trayvon's family. Make your protest meaningful. Wearing a hoodie on Wall Street will do nothing for Trayvon Martin.
Where does it say ANYTHING about all white people being racist??? It DOES NOT mention "white people" anywhere. Rather, it says "A black person in a hoodie isn't automatically "suspicious." Let's put an end to racial profiling!" Feeling a bit guilty are you? Way to turn it around and accuse people of being racist against white people. It's about BLACK PEOPLE being racially profiled.
If you've been following OWS for any amount of time, you would know that it's NOT JUST about Wall St. and the banks.
Narrow minds NEVER accomplish anything.