Solidarity Hunger Strike
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 15, 2011, 4:27 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Thursday, December 15, join the OWS Hunger Strikers for a national 24-hour fast to protest the violent evictions across the country that have robbed the Occupy Movement of our right to free speech and assembly. Thursday will be the thirteenth day of the hunger strike for space.
"For us, space is not a mere necessity- a place to lay our head, to eat our meals, to congregate and assemble- it is also a symbol and a direct action," said Diego Ibanez, one of the hunger strikers. "Literally, vacant lots are voids that we fill with physical representations of our concerns, hopes, fears and dreams."
The strike starts on Thursday at 12:01am. Wear a white armband reading, "Hunger Strike" or "SOLIDARITY" Take the fast to your work, school or occupation.
Use this special day to:
REMEMBER all those occupations that have been evicted, and those who are currently on hunger strikes around the world.
REFLECT on the future of the movement and your future space.
FEEL united with the sense that no matter what happens, we've begun something beautiful, strong and resilient.
SOLIDARITY, OWS Hunger Strikers
WTF?! Hunger strikes over the right to camp in parks, meanwhile not a peep about the indefinite detention bill Obama is poised to sign. This is ridiculous.
The priorities this week are strange. A defense bill went in front of Congress, along with a messed up spending bill on one of the main OWS issues... and OWS planned a festival and hunger strike over their right to camp on a church lot???
Instead of gathering in front of Trinity Church to complain that a group that has been nothing but friendly to them won't let them use Duarte, maybe a concentrated protest of NDAA or a millionaire's tax would have been more fitting? If 10000 people had shown up in DC today or people had a hunger strike against NDAA maybe something could have ACTUALLY been accomplished. Instead people literally are threatening to starve themselves over essentially, a festival permit.
I guess some protesters don't care about the government anymore and just want to start communes in public spaces?
READ THE BILL BEFORE YOU POST THIS BS. Here is the cut and past from the approved bill from the Senate:
(b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.— (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States. (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
This is no less than the 20th time I have posted this on this web site. It has become very clear that OWS does not want to hear the facts but rather they want to fear monger to try to build support. Good luck, the truth will just continue to over shaddow your BS. 21
That only says there is no requirement that US citizens be detained in military custody. The reason Obama initially threatened a veto was because he wanted the flexibility to hold a person in domestic law enforcement rather than through the military system.
Most laws, including this one, don't require arrest of anyone, only permit it. This law permits arrest and detention of US citizens by either the military or by domestic law enforcement, it just doesn't require it.
I have been studying this very subject intently for the last 5 years. It has happened twice since 2003 that a United States Citizen has been detained by a Law Enforcement Agency and subsequently sent to GITMO. Of the 100 or so case studies that I have read, these two were significantly different than the others and by all accounts, the correct decision was made in there cases. Both of them provided valuable support to Al Queda and as dumb as it sounds, didn't even try to cover up the fact that they were doing it. In the rest of the 98 case studies, a good portion of them were released for whatever reason or procecuted and convicted through the normal court system with due process. In other words, this ability that everyone is so up in arms about has existed for as long as the Patriot Act has been around in our country already and has been used in my opinion with the greatest restraint to go down that road particularly when it pertains to a US Citizen arrested on US soil. Like I said before the two times it was used, it was valid and I'm not sure an argument could be made to dispute that.
This law goes even further than the Patriot Act. (They wouldn't bother with it otherwise obviously). I support due process of law where people are arrested, charged, and tried. Arresting people upon suspicion and imprisoning them indefinitely without charges, without trial, is against the principles of our Constitution.
explain where this law goes further than the Patriot Act? I actually have a copy of it with me when you respond so I will be interested in what portion you are talking about. I'm not saying that to cause an argument, I have just read both of these bills so many times that I am truly interested in what you think goes further.
It is what the government does with those laws when they start feeling threatened that worries me. Look what happend with Iraq - $1.5 trillion dollars spent, 4483 Americans killed, "officially" 33,183 injured (over 100,000 actually), 113,728 Iraq civilians dead with another probable 15,000 unnamed. At least 20,000 Iraq civilians seriously injured... because our president and congressmen can be stampeeded into stupid and destructive decisions over "mistakes".
There are two sections in the bill, you have quoted the one that exempts citizens and residents. Would be great if you posted the other one, which is the one that permits arrest and detention by the military of US citizens in the US
Please post the link for all of us to see.
Hunger strike, but don't die from it. We need every follower we can get. That, or become vegetarian.
to people like voteGOP2012, and to all those who believe that one should pay for health care and education
I live in Europe. Your propaganda is wrong. There is a crisis, but for those countries who followed the American neo liberal way....Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece. Not where i live. Education and health care is free. Taxes are high compared to the US, but then we don t pay the govt to kill some poor Afghan, Iraqi or whoever your elite happens to dislike at the moment.. I don't even understand people who think that they should pay for education and healthcare!
Taxes are not high compared to the US. We have
federal income tax
FICA (social security and medicare tax)
state income tax
local property tax
state and local sales tax
and fees for EVERYTHING like drivers licenses, etc.
We pay all that and we DON'T have health care, but we do have a crappy public education system and the biggest military the world has ever seen.
TAX HEAVENS TAX HEAVENS CORPORATIONS PAY NO TAXES>>> UNTIL OCCUPY UNDERSTANDS THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM AND TAX AVOIDANCE THIS MOVEMENT WILL LACK ITS POTENTIAL. im a political science student with a state finance course that pretty much states 1)tax avoidance started in 1907 and now it has become practically an institution like the bank down the street. 2) unions dropped the ball in the 1970s because they were arguing for benefits while they needed to argue about globalization. 3) we must understand the following terms: tax heavens, double tax avoidance, financial centers, and of course federal reserve which most people know about at this point. but tax avoidance isn't in the public eye as it should be maybe even more then the FED. im not from this site http://www.taxjustice.net but i used stats from it for 4th year papers and it has all the information to prove anyone wrong who says the system isnt fucked.
this is a very good report on Business tax avoidance http://www.tackletaxhavens.com/Cost_of_Tax_Abuse_TJN_Research_23rd_Nov_2011.pdf and Financial center: http://www.actionaid.org.uk/doc_lib/addicted_to_tax_havens.pdf and here is an audit of the fed... http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11696.pdf
So we have lost our right to assemble peacefully. We gave away our right to bear arms and to form militias to defend each other. When can I expect armed thugs to show up and arrest me for the things I say and write? Am I still allowed to be Christian? Other countries have expanded their rights based on what one of our old politicians came up with. We are too lazy to fix our country. So far we have lost rights by sitting around and going limp like losers. It is long past time we stand up and arm ourselves to defend each other and our rights. Going limp and watching people get beaten to death has failed.
I'd note that we didn't so much give it up as have it stripped when we decided to use it - California gun control started under Reagan to disarm the panthers (Mulford act). Illinois started its gun control laws to shut down the Lehr und Wehr, a registered militia founded by socialists.
It's no accident that the strictest gun control laws are found in states that were the country's industrial heart. They were also states with a large left wing population and agitation. The same happened in Europe - gun control in Britain was a way to disarm the left, it came from the conservatives.
The saturday night special moral scare was racist in tone and aimed at the ability of the poor to get armed. The truth is many of the founders (most) thought the second amendment just applied to white males and already had control - while the militias were just there to be called up to repress protesters and act in case of war and little else; it wouldn't be until Grant that an administration would try to fix this.
Also - "Am I still allowed to be Christian?" The christian persecution complex gets frankly annoying. This country has one muslim, a handful jews and buddhists, and zero atheists in congress. It's still dominated by christians.
It is not dominated by Christians if you look at the behavior of the politicians and then read the gospel. Those are false Christians if they continue to worship the flag and allow this criminal system to continue. I consider people like George Bush to be devil worshipers. They break every Christian law and then pretend to be Christian in public. It is a disgrace.
Admittedly this could be true, I guess. The one belief of those who are in power tends to be power.
If you ever get around to reading the Gospel, you will realize that there are many people going around calling themselves Christian who live their lives opposite from what it teaches. Usually they hold positions of power. They have succeeded in turning masses of people away from Jesus by practicing and encouraging criminal behavior publicly and in God's name. They are the definition of devil worshipers. The devil, being the personification of everything bad. Bad, being anything that destroys life.
For the hunger strikers - who have dedicated their bodies to this movement - and all others seeking insight into why this movement is deeply & significantly about the body as a vehicle to a better world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUCMrotG7uM&feature=related
This is for Mother.....you need to get a life....oh by the way what might you be doing....supporting the 1%???? True Im just an ol' hippie from the sixties not even one of the ones who walk or camp in the streets to protest. No I grew up got a job and worked hard all my life for what Ive got.....but it's people like yourself who allow the 1% elite or as you say the ones who have designs set for their agenda to carry out their master plan....and where might you be or end up should they succeed?.
Not so certain I totally agree with the hunger strike as the powers that be already wish to use population control to gain the sinister outcome of their wicked schemes.....but peace and love and support to all of you!
I think everyone single one of you should go on a hunger strike. By spring it will all be finished.
I'm hungry.
i love it life is unfair...so i will build a car a drive it anywhere i want to go....the whole point of human evolution is to try to change the unfairness ....slave in chains whipped...no to unfair lets change that...planet earth being abused the most unfair of all ...we are in the process of changing that....you dont like what people look like in the movement welll.......they have you looking ...hahaha....where winning...
Something off topic that may interest you based on your comment :) Its a script of an interview with a strange and incredible woman. http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/inelia_benz_3-10-11_en.html
I live in Mass. but have been down to Zuccotti Park twice... I cannot begin to describe my feelings of loss for this wonderful manifestation of community that was the encampment, I was so very well taken care of. I know that we will fight on and we will be victorious no matter what we morph into, but I still miss the sense of community that was the encampment...
in the summer we dont need camps we can just be there all the time
Yes, thanks for reminding me! I am envisioning all sorts of events happening, performances, etc. Something to look forward to!
Starting a hunger strike was a bad idea.
It'll make you guys look like you're blackmailing and the people participating in it will only have themselves to blame near the end of it.
I don't see what's wrong with just doing what we were initially doing.
I personally think local general strikes, sit down strikes etc (in addition to protests/occupying etc) should be one of the main focuses now. Its very effective.
solidarity struggleforfreedom
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/
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Hunger strike to squat in a park. Retards.
Hopefully you guys starve to death haha
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Life isn't Fair- Its not unusual to get cheated in life, but if one person should lose, it simply means that someone else has gained. When the same few people manage to gain a lot, it only means that it has been taken from the majority. That is the nature of the system today, as it promotes greed and corruption all in an effort to survive a system designed to collapse since the very beginning.
It seems life is more fair for others. Based on your own concept of fairness, this movement is simply balancing fairness out, and therefor is justice it self.
Nothing is free - True, but what you speak of is the dollar. If you haven't noticed already, every single dollar in existence today is part of a loan and has to go back to the bank because "Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them.". That includes the dollars in your bank account too. Research it your self.
If you want to talk about a unfree and unfair world, this world is the perfect example. Everything ever done in last 60 years is for supreme financial gain to maximize financial stability that can not sustain it self. Its at the expense of pollution, poverty and child labor.
Don't watch the newsreels on TV, you said so your self, what they say "isn't evident". http://www.reuters.com/ has prefiltered news, and I am sure many other sites have prefiltered news as well.
For the record, I support Occupy wall street and I have no tattoos, no body piercings and work a very nice and successful career. Many others do to.
Unfortunately, lately, the right to a normal life and right to view was restricted increasingly more. I do not know if America can say that has a healthy democracy, with all these obstacles posed. We have the right to a place where we can express freely, a place where you feel free. That place should be America, but there is a long time. from www.miere-bucovina.ro
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How to support an OWS Hunger Strike
http://www.occupyxmas.net/2011/12/how-to-support-ows-hunger-strike.html
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Occupy Wall Street needs to shut its stupid mouth. How dare they count every person in the ninety-nine percent they talk about as in with them. They do not have a right to speak for me. I like the rich. Many of them started with nothing or almost nothing. Steve Jobs and countless others became VERY rich after being very poor. They did not complain. They had ideas and went with them. The top one percent creates jobs. Our companies, stores, firms and on and on that employ millions were not started by poor people. They were started by the wealthy. Now, OWS states that the rich are our enemy. Great, go against those who create so much. Occupy Wall Street has got to be the most stupid bunch of idiots to ever band together. They have no real clue as to what they are doing. In Los Angeles, they accomplished nothing and left a mess that cost the city a lot of money. In Seattle, OWS blocked docks and tried to prevent people from going to work. Yet, they claim they want people to go to work. The entire Occupy movement is a joke. They talk for the entire ninety-nine percent, but of those ninety-nine percent of the people, about ninety percent are working. I live in Beverly Hills and I'm doing fine. I don't need Occupy Wall Street to tell me what to do.
George Vreeland Hill
if the rich create jobs.. where are these jobs.. wealth for the rich has increases 20 percent... where is the 20 percent increase in jobs? there is none. your logic fails. OWS wins.
Dear voteGOP2012
Wow! Who raised such a judgmental woman? Is this how you are raising your children? Like Aerosmoth's lyric, "never judge a book by its cover," I guess this wasn't your motto to your kids! Obviously the stones you throw probably don't apply to your metal-forged house?
"It's a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for - literally" where are these billions who would die? Where are you getting your information from? And these billions would also die for 'free speech' and to vote.
You only criticized a few points of the OWS, the unfairness is this: It's UNFAIR that the people who have a whole lot of money, will buy our ELECTED officials to pass rules and regulations that benefit people with a whole lot of $$. Read up on some other news source that isn't owned by large conglomerates that buy our congress men and women.
Hope you feel better about putting a few protesters down that your eyes just happened to see.
Just as the world is round was proven, justice and economics cannot be tolerated as a 'worthwhile moral imperative' anymore. This is how change happens, when oppressed people who don't want their over-taxed dollars to go to causes that only benefit a few.
If women didn't protest we wouldn't have the right to vote (even though our votes don't really mean anything anymore, unless I have a few 100K to buy my congressman or lobbyist), and people of color wouldn't have the right to vote either.
Thank god we still have the 1st amendment, but that seems to be dwindling too since our due process has just been stripped.
Then buy a vacant lot?
Thank you for your dedication to justice and the possibility of a more equitable future. Sacrificing basic needs is not easy and requires dedication to a higher calling. As a mother of two, I praise you for helping to create a better world for all future generations. May God bless your efforts.
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Occupy from a Mother's Perspective...........
Call it an occupational hazard, but I can't look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, "Who parented these people?"
As a culture columnist, I've commented on the social and political ramifications of the "movement" - now known as "OWS" - whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: "Everything for everybody."
Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it's clear there are people with serious designs on "transformational" change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.
Yet it's not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question, but rather the fact that I'm the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters' moms clearly have not passed along.
Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters' mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn't, so I will:
No matter how you try to "level the playing field," some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they're dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance, and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.
While I'm pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free: overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling, repairs to fixtures and property, condoms, Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens. Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.
Your word is your bond. When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don't require loans, or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals. Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization. It's a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for - literally.
A protest is not a party.On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn't evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don't dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don't seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.
There are reasons you haven't found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn't a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It's not them. It's you.
Oh, Mother, you're so right: 1) life isn't fair, but shouldn't we struggle for an economic system that doesn't perpetuate injustice, doesn't push the planet towards ecological collapse, doesn't deny people basic needs, and doesn't build a house in the Hamptons from profits of predatory lending that leaves others homeless? 2) Nothing is free. Everything is commodified, available to the highest bidder, denied to those who can't afford it. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not free. Freedom of speech, not free. Freedom to assemble, not free. Free is a hell of a lot more than debt, zero is greater than less than zero, no?. Wall Street has figured out how to profit from debt, why can't we figure out how society can benefit from free, especially for those things you highlight, like healthcare and education? Couldn't you imagine the benefit to society outweighing cost when those things are universal? 3) Hello, loans were not made on the promise to repay them. They were made on the promise of default. Debt was re-packaged and sold a million times over. And though I love libraries, what educational pursuits are you referring to that don't require loans? And as for student debt as a state of victimization, you must know about proprietary colleges that invest more money in marketing than education and lead unknowing young people into debt for years to come. 4) Perhaps you should add to the list of "off-putting" physical attributes other human characteristics that may make it harder to find a job in this society, like: 1) being a woman, 2) being a person of color, 3) having an accent, 4) being queer, 5) looking like you don't have a lot of money 6) being homeless, 7) looking hungry or sick, 8) not having a college diploma, which you can only attain by going into debt, 10) oh yeah, and dreadlocks, but thankfully you remembered that one.
Wake up.
The United States of America has a land mass of 3,717,813 square miles; the US government holds and controls around 30% of that land and has a target of acquiring 50% to "protect our treasured landscapes. What's now held is equivalent to 1,115,344 square miles and is equal to the combined land masses of Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece, New Zealand, Ireland, Bahrain, Hong Kong, Liechtenstein, the Cayman Islands, Anguilla, and Bermuda. My treasured landscapes don't include starving, homeless Americans being held off of land they need for their survival by government guns.
There are sufficient lands and resources in this country to provide people with the tools they need to create, free, self sustaining eco villages all over the country. With some direction people could build for themselves the modest housing, shared kitchens, dining halls, laundries, libraries, and even schools, clinics, etc. They can plant and grow their own organic food, and also govern themselves while schooling their kids. We estimate that it would take not more than, and probably less than, 4 hours a day per person to feed everybody and maintain the buildings and grounds. If business centers are also provided people will have a chance to start small businesses in their spare time. In the meantime those that are working will not have to shoulder the tax burden of trying to maintain the unemployed population in more expensive and less efficient suburban neighborhoods. But, similar co-operative communities can be established in suburbs to quickly provide people with housing and food through locally self-grown organic small farming.
In this country with enormous resources there is no moral reason that any person should ever be hungry or homeless in America. We need to take the FOR PROFIT out of the equation and make some changes FOR PEOPLE.
Bet you would be the first to complain when the communes in our mountains started cutting down the forests to build their kitchens, dining halls, laundries, libraries and even schools, clinics, etc.
How about we start one in the Petrified Forest in Arizona and build those things out of the colorful petrified wood in that area, but I have already staked out a claim in Yellowstone for me and my family in our "summer" commune.
And how many of these commune communities have you set up yourself. From your posting, you once again, think that the government has all the funds readily available to set up those communities in your suburbs, build all the buildings, etc. using its unlimited resources.
When will you people ever wake up and realize that all of the government land is already mortgaged to the tune of 15 trillion dollars and is just about maximized out so far as getting more money to build your idealistic worlds. Why do you yourself, not go out with your $100,000 and purchase 10 acres of farmable land and get your commune going if you think it is so great. If Jim Jones can do it, so can you.
Idiotic comments from somebody that hasn't thought about this subject at all. We are in the process of setting up a commune and I lived in one for 6 years. My partner is an organic gardener. The Pentagon loses 25% of its budget every year. That should fund help for people in need. Because you are so arrogantly right why don't you cough up the $100K - we will take it. Contact www.the-communal-solution.us
Idiotic reply to someone who has though a lot about those treasured lands and who comes from a family that since the 1600's has been toting a gun around the country to make that land free for all Americans not just the ones that would set their eyes on it for their own personal use. You have no more right to claim that land than I do or the WALTON family does to build another WALMART on.
Your idea is about as NEW as - grass. The only difference in what you propose and what others have done in the past is that you expect all the resources to come from the government.
For the most part, I grew up in a commune. Everyone had gardens, shared resources etc. It was called a small town in southern Iowa on about 1.5 square miles and 650 people. It was a step above what you are advocating, in that every family had their own space, their own garden, their own kitchen, etc. That was the great part about it because you then chose who you shared your home, your kitchen etc with. Actually that commune probably had a lot more community, sharing and freedom that anything you are proposing herein.
Don't tell me that I haven't thought about this subject - I have lived in it for about 70 years now and I will probably be moving into a smaller commune in about 10 years from now. This set up was all about PEOPLE, if PROFIT entered into the mix that was a secondary issue.
Good luck with your plans. I only wish you the best as you move to reinvent the wheel.
Cool on the "commune" living. But your gun toting heritage was put in place to PROTECT private ownership and personal use of land. What do you think our ancestors did to the Native Americans who didn't own the land as private property but shared it as a natural resource that belongs to all. The trouble with your glorious example of an upgrade being your OWN garden, your OWN home, your OWN kitchen is that that is what has destroyed the environment. That kind of living is NOT SUSTAINABLE and is certainly not a model we should be pitching to the whole world as the epitome of what is right. The resources needed to equip 7+ billion private kitchens, bedrooms, garages, living rooms, laundry rooms, etc. requires the destruction of the earth in order to build them. And I lived in a commune of 1000 people and the comraderie and sharing made it one of the most productive and happy times of my life. So your assumptions are BS until you have ACTUALLY lived it. And oddly your last two sentences sound more like sarcasm than any wish for my well being.
AllOverIt Good morning again
Thanks for the reply. I really don't think that we are at loggerheads over what we are each saying.
I really hope that your plans for the commune work out fine for you. It is just something that I would NOT do and could not survive under. I hope that you can appreciate that as my personal preference. You put me in an area with 1,000 other people who have to share comraderie and I will simply not be happy as you would and actually I would go insane. This may be for YOU but it would be the death of ME. Now I hope that you can understand where I am coming from.
I do not ask you or our govenment to provide the space that I wish for my way of life regardless of the resources that it has available.
Your ideal regarding the Native Americans needs to be updated in many ways. If you think that they all shared it as a natural resource that belonged to all, you are totally in the dark about what was actually the lifestyle of various Tribes of this country. The first thing that you would have to exlore is the fact that some Native Americans by right of possession, DID own their specific land areas and built premanent homes thereon. You might be interested in researching the Hopi Tribes and determine why they build individual homes on the top of mesas basically in a fortified position. Other Native Americans did not have land that they claimed as their shared space, they were raiders of other tribal groups and in effect were nomads on the land. I know you are an educated person. You have lived in a commune for 6 years and I have worked among Native Americans for over 46 years. You see it is very easy for anyone to point their finger at "idiotic comments" and think that somehow they have a corner on the knowledge market. Ignorance always leads to BS, please excuse my ignorance in the prior post comments regarding communes etc.
Thank you for your very nice reply. I appreciate your ability to see another point of view and your generosity in clarifying your own. I am aware of the Hopi lifestyle but I am also aware that eventually 6 of the Northern tribes got sick of fighting each other and formed a confederation called the Iroquois League, or the League of Peace and our constitution was modeled after some of its principles.
I'm sure that it is possible to create a nation in which all people are free to live as they choose as long as they are not destructive in their design. I think that it is vital that we all practice the art of living self sustainably to prevent wars and manipulation through food supplies. I certainly have learned that you, Sir, are not an idiot. All the very best to you and thank you for your good wishes.
who is stopping you?
Need land. Government sends armed thugs if we try to use some. Private hoarders do the same. Any solutions?
Buy some land. Set up a tent plant a garden. Need money to buy land? find a way to make some. write a book with all of your brilliant, (and original) ideas, open a restaurant with your alternative food ideas. Do something to provide for your needs and wants. Dont look to tax payers to give you land we are tapped out.
Hey AllOverIt
Good to hear from you today. We are getting the moisture in the form of rain and snow that we needed so badly out here in the SouthWest . Think that we have about three storms lined up to hit us so we are very thankful for that although one of the reasons that I moved from the MidWest years ago was to get out of the cold and snow. Today, that very thing that I left back then is a great thing here. - a different perspective to say the least. Yes, I want to explore more about the Iroquois League. My ancestors can to the Mass-Conn area in the 1660's and my research into that family has often made reference to the Iroquois and other Native American groups in the East who either did or did not take part in the Revolutionary War. I have been especially concentrating on the area around Springfield, NY and the interaction within that area. If you have read about the "degrees of separation" I can almost be sure that my GGGrandfather would have been there when George Washington visited the area after the war. This is just fascinating to me. Also have been to the Sandy Creek area up around Lake Erie and have been finding out more in that area about how the Revolutionary War was actually financed - who paid for it and how that payment was returned.
I would really like to visit a commune sometime just to see what the set up is, how labor is distributed, and just how self-sustainable such a place can be. I am really not that are removed in what I have done over my life time. It was in no way a commune but we did have 800 students and 250 staff working together within a seven day a week system that involved everything from meals, to cleaning, to entertainment, to education, to medical care, and everything else that goes along with over a thousand people working on one goal.
Of course, we relied on outside food sources - our only real growth was tumbleweeds .. but we did learn how to survive when for a period of two weeks that food could NOT be delivered to us because all roads, railroads, communications, airports etc where totally shut down in an area that covered the top half of the entire state of Arizona and parts of the other three too.
Enough of my rambling - It has been nice meeting you on this forum and learning more about you and your goals. Best wishes to you and yours also.
ok I am going to respond to your points in the order you wrote them.
1.) "Life isn't fair": First off they're not protesting life, mom. They're protesting many problems caused by social and economic inequality. People want equal opportunity, not equal outcome. These problems are supposed to be solved by our leaders in government but that will only happen once we remove the ability for special interests to fund unlimited amounts of money to political campaigns.
2.) I agree that nothing is free. Everything comes at a price. And free health care and college degrees can only come from an increase in tax or at least a new spending bill, that will be decided by the decision makers.
3.) The issues concerning the student loan debt is not that simple. More and more families are unable to put their kids through college in order to actually have a chance at a good sustainable career. So they are, in a sense, forced to take on loans with interest. Whether or not they are able to get a job to pay it off in the future depends on what and how much they know in their chosen field and who they know.
4.) I whole heartily agree that protesting should not be a party. But who can actually control who is and is not allowed to participate in a public demonstration? So a few bad apples wonder in on the protest and dance and sing, they garnish attention to the protest because of it. And you are way too eager to judge those who are different from you. At least give them a chance before you make assumptions, especially about their sobriety.
5.) Lets judge those who apply for a job not by their "tattooed necks" or "gauged ears" but by their qualifications and resume. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity may or may not be a virtue but that should be decided by the individual. And I say, "to each their own".
Off the record, I think the only kinds of people you seem to be able to raise are social conformists who can't learn to think for themselves because their mother likes to mold her kids into what SHE wants them to be. Let them find their own path.
Oh my gosh, free college degrees? Really? You are going to mooch off the taxpayers for your higher education? Get a job and pay for it yourself. That is what my entire generation did, as well as the generations before. Where has the work ethic gone?
The work ethic is still there, its the price of college that has changed. My professors talked about college costing them $200 a semester, a semester at my state school costs about $6000 a semester, which means that a year of school costs the entirety of the wages of a full time minimum wage job. Your entire generation had it easy, we now live in an age where the banks are making billions of dollars off of student debt, but use their money (and ours in some well known fraud cases) on risky financial products, buying politicians, or horde it instead of investing it and creating jobs like they keep telling us they will. All our money is being sucked to the top by their greed, that is where the problem is. Maybe a free college education isn't practical, but neither is what we have now. I know that by prefacing your uninformed commentary with "as a mother", it is supposed to give you some relevant down to earth insight into things, but really if you want to talk about national issues you should maybe know more about them than what you happen to hear on the radio from your local conservative talk show host.
Occupy from a son's point of view,
First and foremost do you know what the difference between a millioniare and a trillionaire is? I know your saying well of course son one has millions and one has trillions? Ok name me some millionaires or even great billionaires you know the RICH- Buffet, Oprah, Bloomturd and so on Gates ,Zuckerburg-you get that one. Ok now name me some Trillionaires please........... ...............Mom?..............................Are you there?.............. ..........Please Mom tell me who the trillionaires are?................. ............mom?............................................................ I am getting scared Mommy, PLEASE TELLL MEE!!
There is none? You don't know of any? Well how about the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, Venderbelts, Warburgs to name a few. Oh you don't know about these Mommy, well I didn't learn this in school either because it wasn't in the books Mommy, I didn't learn this from the TV either because they own that too mommy. No, I had to talk to my generation and impower us through the Internet, which was the last communication line we have that is not brainwashed by The Four Horsemen of Banking (Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Wells Fargo) who own the Four Horsemen of Oil (Exxon Mobil, Royal Dutch/Shell, BP Amoco and Chevron Texaco); in tandem with Deutsche Bank, BNP, Barclays and other European old money behemoths. But their monopoly over the global economy does not end at the edge of the oil patch. According to company 10K filings to the SEC, the Four Horsemen of Banking are among the top ten stock holders of virtually every Fortune 500 corporation. So who owns the stock in these big boys? Well Mommy the ownership of the New York Federal Reserve Bank- by far the most powerful Fed branch- owned by just eight families, four of which reside in the US. They are the Goldman Sachs, Rockefellers, Lehmans and Kuhn Loebs of New York; the Rothschilds of Paris and London; the Warburgs of Hamburg; the Lazards of Paris; and the Israel Moses Seifs of Rome. They are the true thieves and terriost that have destroyed our global structure from within. These are the trillionaires that YOU don't know about, these are money lenders that Jesus through out of the Temple, these are the ones who destroyed your 401K and your housing value while putting 20 million americans on food stamps since 2008. Now you know the truth you will only have to answer to one more person, and I would stop defending Satan and the fake DEBT from the IMF, ECB, WB, FED and so on. You are either on the side of Jesus, Jefferson, and Jackson or you are on the side of Rothschilds and blood of millions on their hands with the other families that collude with them. The only thing above your motherly perspective is the universal persepective and I think your on the DARK side Mommy and you can still change your ways because any day could be your last, and the big judge knows that you now know. Join the fight for real freedom, a freedom to print DEBT free money like our brave founding fathers had risked death to birth.
OWS Please Please Please Occupy Another Country. Leave this country that you hate so much. Leave this country that has no freedom. Go pick a country that has what you are looking for. Just Leave.
As a mother of 2 and grandmother of 4 I beg to differ. Knowledge belongs to no one to be sold for a profit, and your thoughts are not your own. OWS is the best thing that has happen to humanity in a long time. But obviously you're to busy finding everything wrong with them that you totally missed the message and cant see what others can see. I know you mean well, but you have been to indoctrinated to even think for yourself. You're just another sheeple going along with the crowd. Quit feeding the beast if you want to have a future. Think outside the box. The American people getting screwed all the way around. The whole world is screaming at you fools and you're not listening. Our government is out of control and its our place to hold them accountable. People with secrets are up to no good. How much more freedom are you gonna give up for a freaking job to feed the fat cat. Gee I cant believe how far gone the American people are. Perhaps you all are already dead and they forgot to bury you.
Ok, firstly, no one has to give you knowledge. It is there if you want it, but you will have to pay for it. That is just how it works. I don't want to have to pay for your education, and neither does anyone else. Secondly, our government is out of control. We need less regulation on business and everything else. The budget needs to be cut without tax rates increasing so that our economy can continue to grow. The best solution to the debt problem would be to lower taxes and expand the base. Thirdly, do you really expect people to just give you money? That's not how it works. Whatever job you get is probably benefiting someone else, too, but guess what? You get a paycheck in the mail. Win-win, I think.
The people really gone are those who think that everything will be handed to them if they complain enough.
Those who give knowledge for free get further in life because they use natures law. Anybody who still pays for knowledge is a fool. Do your own research,. gain your own knowledge. And yes people give money away all the time and no you don't have to work for it. The world is looking for new idea's. Some people got rich over night doing nothing .They just had a bright idea and somebody bought it. Our government is lying to their teeth. We are not broke and neither are we in debt. We spend trillion on the military, we send aid to more countries then I care to name and land and man is not for sale. That is a violation of human rights. God belongs to God, whatever you may consider God to be, man belongs to himself, woman to herself and mother earth to herself. You don't benefit by working for another man, no one does, but its all we ever known. Unless you truly enjoy what you do and it makes you a decent living, a job is just a job and you feel trapped..However I agree on our government being out of control. We don't need them they kill people in our name, we pay for it and if we dare complain we are enemies of the state lol. Now that is the greatest joke of all. America is one dysfunctional society with one totally insane government. It takes a good sense of humor to keep your sanity living in this country.I cant imagine any one would envy us for anything we got and the price tag it carries.
one more thing....there definitely IS a thing called "Magic Money Machine" and it's called The FED. Only it's the Big Banks that get bailed out. You know, the ones who really need it.
I think you are focussing on the mainstream media representation, which is intended to create exactly the visual repulsion you are expressing. The proposed 28th Amendment and concern about NDAA, and SOPA, are supported by long standing civil rights organizations. There is a primer on media propaganda "Policing the Crisis" which explains the phenomenon you are experiencing. I m not personally fond of piercings and dreads but that is not the big picture. I dont really like 3 piece pin-stripe suits either, but 'relaxed casual' is not the issue. Please look deeper.
Mick also sang "no place for a street fighting man". Do YOU have a mirror? Conformity ain't what it used to be.
As a mother of three and grandmother of four I can tell you some of what I hope my children and grandchildren learned from us: 1.) That the reward of conformity is that everyone likes you but yourself; 2:) that everything worth fighting for is worth fighting for without reservation; 3.) that you should question all authority even when it comes from parents, clergymen, old sages, teachers, tradition etc. But after careful consideration and analysis when it agrees with reason and it will benefit one and all, then accept it and live by it (Jesus, Buddha); 4.) that human beings need to develop a greater sense of responsibility beyond themselves, their own families or nation...that universal responsibility is the key to human survival and the best foundation for world peace (the Dalai Lama). ;5.) that if we have no peace it is because we have forgotten that we belong to one another (Mother Teresa); 6.) that when your higher power turns out to hate the same people you do you've created them in your own image; 6.) ...that it is easy to drag people along to the will of the leaders who make policy whether it is a democracy, fascist dictatorship, parliament, or communist dictatorship ... all you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists (activists) for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger, It works the same in any country (Herman Goering) and 7.) and that taking personal responsibility and allowing personal transformation without being held back by fear and prejudices can and will save the world. While these are just some of those lessons we s[poke of and while we acknowledge that there may be many lessons we have not taught them or learned ourselves yet ( we're a work in process), we feel we've done okay so far. The reason for the names in quotes is because these are some of those who taught us those lessons by their actions and words in the past. In addition to them I would like to add most of those who we have met and come to know in the last three months at Occupy. We've overcome our fears and have gone to see for ourselves and have evaluated on our own with out the lies, prejudices and agendas from many but not all of the politicians, and news media. And I invite you and yours to do the same and then draw your own conclusions. Unlike the hidden agenda of those who now own our political system ( large corporations) you are free to come and see for yourselves.
You cannot see the amount of job loss that has occured and blame the former working people for not finding jobs that have ceased to exist. Your post seems directed at children just outa school which really have nothing to do with whats going on.. you are as outa touch as a politician
What you are witnessing is the death of a culture. In his book Friday Robert Heinlein wrote "But a dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than a riot."
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Dear "Mom", Obviously tolerance wasn't one of the lessons you taught to your children. We just got a Blessing and Encouragement from ArchBishop Desmond Tutu! Maybe you should write to him and tell him how smelly and off-putting we really are. Love, OWS
Dear "Mom": You write/respond as if the offputting elements -- the body odor and piercings are all that protestors are. That isn't all they are. They are in most cases, concerned, intelligent, exceptionally kind and aware individuals who are trying to change the direction of our country and the world, so if they lose a lot of sleep and stink while doing it, who cares. America's direction by all accounts is a sorry one, one that doesn't consider the poor, or those struggling for an education, or anything for that matter. We are not the luckiest country in the world. We are the country that promises the most and delivers the least, and supports the belief that if you live in the Hamptons you are wonderful, truly successful, and on top of the world, and if you live in the streets, you are not worthy even of consideration. The fact that you can express yourself well, my dear columnist, or that you even have a job, does not make you either right or enlightened regarding the Occupy Movement. Apparently, all you have done is observe and judge. Maybe you need to get into the trenches and talk with the people and serve their cause before you leap for your righteous, indignant, tough-love pen.
America's direction is sorry. We are slipping into the socialist ways of Europe, and look where that got them.
You already posted this two weeks ago. Get a blog.
People who rely on common sense are widget makers and suffer from mental malfeasance. People who see what is and envision what could be are entrepreneurial and innovative. Common Sense is a crutch. A sense of imagination is what makes wealth and keeps the widget makers fed. you should have spent more time dreaming and less time studying the common sense of the past. The one constant in life is change of common sense. Cheers!
A culture is built on dreams and its dreams are dreamed by artists.
I like that.
until now.. when the widget makers are beginning to starve.
What do your children do?
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So right . . . you will bring the wrath of all those who only know anger and resentment down upon you.
OWS do not want solutions . . .they . . .have not recognized the problem . . .as suggested by the image in the mirror.
Good points.
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Message of solidarity from the movement 15M in Spain. We hold deep respect for your moral strenght and your clarity of vision, you represent a brighter future for us all, though materialized, living in the present. We belong to a network of translators of many countries aroudn the world, I belong to the Spanish group of translators who are translating this blog entirely into Spanish as a way to support you and show our solidarity. We will walk together and we will get far, far away in this building of a truly human society. Thank to you all OWS, deep respect, solidarity . P.S. by the way if you know of anyone willing to follow this blog in Spanish or maybe even to help with the translations, just email translatorbrigades@gmail.com
I live in SE KS. I will be on a hunger strike in solidarity tomorrow. I occupy my home, my family, my work. Though change takes a lot longer to effect in my area - life as we know it is going to change. I have faith for the slow growth and change of a world that WE MUST OCCUPY. We must occupy our children and guide them, teach them. Get angry about the corporate/ governmental intrusion in our lives. God please bless the angry and fearful dissenters of this movement, comfort them, and show them the space in this life that they occupy - BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS COUNT! I will be in a state of prayer tomorrow. God bless OWS.
who's voting for Romney in the GOP debates?
It already started?
I absolutely agree with you. The West coast port shutdown was a decent start. Now we just have to focus on getting enough people on board.
the media needs to focus on the movement for what it truly is. for the amount of people this is affects and continues to affect, mainstream media consistently portrays the media as a group of delinquents and welfare recipients complaining it's not fair. and that's if it is covered at all. in seattle, the 35000 person crowd in NY was not even mentioned in the news. there is a huge coverup of this movement. i am more and more realizing WE DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY. sucks.
You are on the money... The main stream media would rather focus on college coach child molesters, moronic gop candidates and anything but OWS because they know that every moment they share will equate to many more awakenings. What they seem to not realize is that this movement has a momentum unlike any before in this country's 200+ year history with the exception of the American Revolution and it will continue to increase proportionally to the verocity of the collapse of the capitalist military complex. Eventually the military rank and file will awaken and turn their weapons on the jailers and at that very moment we will all gain the freedom that comes through peaceful expression, love and fellowship!
Amen!
Good that you realize that we are not free... I have known it for a very long time. Keep the faith!
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I have said it before; hunger strikes will get you nowhere. You need to light yourselves on fire. I will donate the gasoline. I figure that 5 gallons is good for 10-15 people, and I am prepared to donate at least 50 gallons. Give me the dedicated and I will give you the gas.
There is something wrong with you if you want to burn people alive. You need help.
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unfortunately, you are entirely correct. when we the people, are willing to die for our voices to be heard, then, and only then are we a force to be reckoned with.
You people with a death wish are the first ones to kill others. STOP IT. It doesn't make you more patriot, or more OWS to want death for the cause.
listen, I'm just saying, if we were committed enough to die for our freedom, we would be taken alot more seriously. I know the NYPD are an angry bunch, but cannot imagine them brainwashed enough to actually kill and kill again. Right now, it is a power of wills. We need to take it to the next level and be ready to die for what we believe. I don't have a death wish, and realize this needs to be as peaceful revolution as possible. But death raises eyebrows. if Americans are dying for this cause, believe me, people will notice. This will become front page. Right now, this movement is not being taken seriously.
"Dying for freedom" is a brainwashing technique used to desensitize people from death. I ain't dying for NOBODY. I will, however, defend myself and my family.
what is more important, your immediate comfort, or the comfort of your family for generations to come? The Arab Spring was catalyzed by the suicide of a hopeless university graduate, which sparked the entire uprising. Death has a serious impact on events to come. I understand the importance of life, and I cherish it. There are many reasons I won't volunteer my life to the movement, and I would never volunteer someone else s life, nor the gasoline. I am, however, predicting the time will come where life will be lost for this cause in this country. And that is the time people will begin to take notice.
And for the record, I will lay down my life in a heartbeat for my family.
It is too easy to get someone who ticks "yes" to "would you die for freedom" to shoot at their own people. It's like dogs. You can have a trained attack dog, who is NOT a pet, or you can have a pet that would protect you should harm come your way.
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You should be the first to burn as a testament to your beliefs
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We need a better and smarter way to fight back. We need a smart revolution!
"WAKE UP PEOPLE!” when you've had enough of this nonsense this is where you go: Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org ) "Spread the News"
are u against all taxes or are you for a fair tax system that would hit the corporations hard, and create public sector jobs and rebuild infrastructural? or are you just a redneck moron screaming about taxes?? while not know WTF ur talking about...
Playing with the tax, money are small measures that will only by us little time. We don't need any taxes on anybody. We think like slaves. And if we don't change we will die like slaves. We don't have to work 40 - 80 hour work weeks. I know that's hard to believe, but that's the kind of foolishness that's leading us right off a cliff. Small measure and band-aids have not worked and they will not work.
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM OsiXs (Revolution 2.0 - The Smart Revolution)