OccupyWallSt.org User Survey
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 10, 2011, 1:08 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
If you are over 18 years old, please take the time to tell us a little more about yourself and your opinions by completing this voluntary anonymous survey being administered by a researcher at the City University of New York. The purpose of the survey is to better understand the characteristics and opinions of users of the website. The survey will take approximately twenty minutes to complete. Click here to begin.
Are the results going to be published?
Previous results have been published on this site (Oct. 19).
I'm interested to see the second survey, since the original showed OWS to whiter than average, MUCH better educated than average, and with 2 percent making more than $150K a year: http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2011/10/ows-young-white-well-educated-latte.html
And, the second survey is closed, less than 36 hours after being posted? Innnnteresting.
I don't understand your point. What is wrong with the demographic and how does it negate or invalidate the points made by this movement and the vasts numbers of people of all kinds that have participated in it?
Depends on what the results are and the reason for the survey. It may never see the light of day. Besides there are so many trolls on this board, I'd call the results questionable. I told them I don't vote so I am sure they care very little about my answers.
I hope yer not putting the results in a tent.
I care very little about what you think
I care very little about what i think. See how easy that is. Consensus
What difference does that make, it's a "click the dot" plurality system, which perpetuates the two-party system.
NOTE that the survey will repeat some questions and it's not a glitch.
That may be a clever way to try to get at trolling and random answers as the same individuals should answer the same question in the same way, right?
Dig in well. Itll b at least a decade be4 the world recovery
No, i don't mean that it isn't safe. it's that the questions are puff and establishment oriented, like move on. i think that move on is a joke and i don't want anything to do with that group or groups like it.
Just curious. What kinds of questions do you think should be asked?
Not questions about electoral politics nor the mind numbing, time wasting pres election. i don't even know if the survey is worthwhile for any reason, but at least questions about a new way of doing things, like do you understand and support using direct democracy and consensus decision-making.
what do you think?
Did this survey receive IRB approval (Human Subjects Research Review)? The consent form lacks a lot of content that it should otherwise have according to proper institutional research ethics...someone please comment.
I don't know what you mean. You are saying a lot here but not really backing it up. What does it lack? What do you mean by "proper?" Have you had IRB training?
I am a trained research psychologist. For a research study to be ethically sound it must go through a review by an Institutional Review Board. I write informed consent forms for studies all of the time and the IRB typically has a particular outline of points that must be a part of the form. For example - http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/irb/repository/files/forms/irb-coversheet-ver-1-12-10-2.docx
Previous elections nationwide have been met with weak turnouts for years. With almost half of the voting-age population not even voting as such was the turnout in the 2008 presidential election.
I challenge you, the 99%, to Occupy Voting Booths.
If your goal is "returning the US back into the hands of its individual citizens", make sure the people that the 99% is voting into office isn't against those things. Otherwise, things get kind of counter-productive.
Occupy Voting Booths! Get organized and get the right people into office.
Please see mytimetovote.com for a breakdown of important election dates and other important information.
If you want to take back our country, take back our government!
If you want to take back our country, make our government leaderless as Wikipedia did for encycolopedia editers!
Actually, leadership is essential to get anything done with large teams of human beings.
Know who Jim Wilson is, from Stanford ?
I looked up JW, but I'm sceptical of professional leaders, and well, academics. The people who are our current Global Leaders, are leading us all to global collapse. We need leaders who can help us all to choose to live with all life on the planet. I mean, do we just want another bubble economy? (oxymoron) Will just ANY job do? Is it enough to punish the thieves, when gross excess is a status thing? I think the leaders we need are living very close to home.
"I'm sceptical of professional leaders..."
You prefer amateurs.
That's like sitting around waiting for the next Susan Boyle.
"You prefer amateurs." I prefer people I can touch. People I know, and what they know, and whether or not their words mean anything, whether or not they stand by their words.
I don't know who Susan Boyle is.
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But what G20 leaders did for the globe economy since 2008? Are the globe economy getting better soon?
Compared to the Hoover-Mellon actions of 1929-1932, these guys are geniuses.
Compared to FDR, they're about even.
Compared to a Wealth Tax that drives a major stimulus, filling in devastated consumer demand... well, nobody's perfect.
They did nothing for 99% and did 99% for the 1%.
Yep.
And let them steal $7-trillion. The $2-trillion everybody knows about with the flim-flam-and-forgery mortgages. The $5-trillion of pension fraud where they sold the bribery-driven "AAA" rating junk to the 99%'s retirement funds.
25,000 creepy mortgage brokers and accomplices did the $2-trillion.
A dozen TBTF enormous banks did the $5-trillion and hid the swag in what they call "customer accounts." The Feds didn't even run an investigation. Told everybody to sue 'em.
Btw: Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson of the Bush Administration was the Joker who executed the most of these scams while he was running Goldman, Sachs. Like Wiki ??? Here's a snip:
He joined Goldman Sachs in 1974, working in the firm's Chicago office under James P. Gorter. He became a partner in 1982. From 1983 until 1988, Paulson led the Investment Banking group for the Midwest Region, and became managing partner of the Chicago office in 1988. From 1990 to November 1994, he was co-head of Investment Banking, then, Chief Operating Officer from December 1994 to June 1998; eventually succeeding Jon Corzine as chief executive. His compensation package, according to reports, was $37 million in 2005, and $16.4 million projected for 2006. His net worth has been estimated at over $700 million.
Nice smash and grab.
Note that Paulson got a tiny fraction of the money he stole.
Thanks.
But even Wikipedia has limits. Don't they require substantion of facts or at least note when those are not made.
And what is all the cry being heard about a do-nothing Congress, statemate, not to mention comments being directed to other divisions of the government. I hear a very distinct cry FOR leaders among what appears to be a leaderless government at this time.
OWS is a leaderless and very strong government.
Keep telling that to yourself. Then look at your organizational structure - not a bad corporate organization chart you have in place today (safety, production, research, financial, workers, resources, resource placement and storage.................) Way to go, for a leaderless society you have copied a real good model. And keep up the meetings, meetings, meetings. Just remember that true democracy is a VERY TIME CONSUMING but strong governmental model. Spent 15 years in an almost pure democratic, grassroots community, and believe me it was very time consuming.
Three year past, Obama is still thinking how to fix the econimy of US.
With the Republicans blocking every single action they can.
They had left the country losing 779,000 jobs a month....
They are trying now to replicate Hoover-Mellon policies of 1929-1932. And filibustering everything else.
Sure thing... try to blame Obama for GOPer insanity.
They are "leaders", do nothing, just play games.
That's what Binladen said.
Bin Laden is one of leaders.
"thinking", perhaps you lavish praise. Thinking for three years should have led to some effective action by now.
OWS is a leaderless action to fix the system.
Tell that to the girl who was getting beaten up yesterday.
The "leaderless" mob tried to block cops when they came in to rescue her.
There was nothing "strong" about that but the odor.
Some cops are the "guns" working for bullies.
Turned out that the girl was raped. At Zuccotti.
Some cops are screwed up. Some of anything.
NY is a great city, but raping occurs everyday in the city. You can not blame police about it.
Didn't intend to blame the cops for the rape.
That was an occupier-on-occupier crime.
Zuccotti is over the edge. Sad, but true.
The Penn state thing is so sickening. Who would facilitate a culture where rape would be ignored to benefit the institution? Who would do that?
do i sense a very subtle jibe there at OWS? Almost didn't notice it. Its well played sir, well played indeed.
who would facilitate a culture where hitting pedestrians with cars would be ignored to benefit the institution? who would do that?
Witnesses including police witnesses say the violent protesters jumped in front and onto the car and started pounding on the hood of the car of an innocent African American man just trying to make his way home. That would be pretty scary. You are ignoring the issue which is that Penn state covered up rapes to benefit Penn state (and used intimidation to keep people quiet) and Occupy is covering up rapes and crimes to benefit Occupy (and using intimidation to keep people quiet).
not at oakland though.. that guy purposely accelerated.. but i agree about penn state. which i think is an example of 'corporate culture' that is the entire problem penn state did it for greed and they learned it from the corporate culture.
"Violent protester" equals right-wing creep working as a provocateur.
Attacking Blacks fits the M.O. 100%.
Check out the US Air & Space Museum riot for exactly this pattern. Two men -- Patrick Howley and Mike Stack -- incited the riot by Stack pushing a Black guard for distraction, then Howley running into the main display area without going through the metal detector.
Provocateurs/saboteurs are one of the top threats to OWS.
Glad I am not the only one to see what these ....Oh so nice of people they are
Your attempt to lie your way into discrediting the movement is pathetic and truly shows you have nothing better to do - if you are SO right with your opinions then to show REAL power would be to ignore, but instead you have to sit around like a couple of red necks at a bar getting drunk and using death as a joke to try and push political one-sidedness. Your very lack of compassion makes you the idiots and pathetic garbage to boot.
It is sick.When I think of the acts this man did on those innocent small boys, I want to vomit!! But what is even more disgusting is the Penn State Administration sweapt this ugly situation under the rug. They are no better then the Catholic church.They never condoned it. They did not contact the police. So they allowed this very nasty predator continue this acts upon small boys. Oh the damage that has been done to the children. The children,some who are grown men now,will propably continue this ugly behavior,if they are not reached and helped.
I certainly hope all mothers come forward whose sons may have been apart of this "so called' program and get their dear boys the help they need.
I am glad they got rid of all the people at the top. They are guilty just as much as Jerry Sadonsky.nasty filthy man,castrate him!!
Yes, it's sickening.
No, nobody "facilitated a culture" to let this happen.
The perp was very, very good at covering his tracks and getting the boys to remain silent. He's a first-rate con artist.
Paterno witnessed his asst. coach abusing the 10 year old boy in the shower 7 or 8 years ago and CHOOSE to do nothing! Fire his ass! Collect his pension and disperse it to us... For surely he is in the 1%
It was not Paterno. It was an assistant coach McQueary.
You have picked up a lie. Joe Paterno never witnessed anything first-hand.
When he was told that this occurred, he reported it to his immediate superior, the AD, and personally to the university president.
McQueary is the coach who caught Sandusky. He did exactly what Paterno did, which is correct/employee_manual action for an employee of the State of Pennsylvania.
Paterno has enough pull that he could have questioned any time during the 10 years why this man was free to roam. he chose not to.
Paterno immediately fired the guy, as far as he could. Taking away a pension was certainly not within his powers.
Paterno knew there was an investigation underway.
He did exactly what he was supposed to do. Same as McQueary.
I have reported crimes. Lots of people do that. It is not you job afterward to do follow-up. The cops will call you -- which would not have happened with Paterno because he was not a witness.
this guy could ask the town to paint itself blue and white and they would do it, he is a community leader and as such has some responsibility to follow up. simple questions.
Exactly. He used his position to manipulate the community so he could get the little boys. Most of these peodofiles are well liked.That how they get what they want.
That's what detectives do for a living.
Not football coaches.
Paterno had every reason to believe that this had been investigated and resolved with the firing and whatever else the University required of Sandusky.
He had no reason to believe it was not reported to police.
I must respectfully disagree with you. thank you for the discussion.
Have a good day !
It is disgusting. The entire administration of Penn State and Joe Pa and his coaches need to be removed. They all knew what was going on. Death penalty for Sandusky also.
death penalty?
Yes there should be a death penalty for rapists and pedophiles just like murderers. Stop the violence and nonsense, we don't need these people in society.
So if an Occupy organizer knows of a rape and covers it up what should happen to that organizer?
Should be charged with accessory to rape and sentenced accordingly. Is there any excuse for allowing rape? I think Joe Pa and the other who knew should do prison time for their complicity. If someone came up to me and told me they saw my friend raping a 10 year old boy, and i didn't report it, then i would be guilty of covering it up. If you want to preach ethics on wall street, then you need to apply it in all cases to everyone.
That’s not very Liberal of you..
Castrate him. Much better penalty.
Who said i was a liberal? Liberalism is slavery.
Oh cute, tag team right-wing whackos quick to jump on the comments having nothing better to do and very little of worth to say. Enjoy your lives.
They're only happy when they are drunk.
You do know I was being sarcastic…I support the Death Penalty 100%….And no offence but I did not say you was a Liberal …I merely said It’s not very Liberal like of you…I did not say you are a Moronic Liberal OWS protester…Least I hope your not.
".... I did not say you was a Liberal..."
"Great use" of grammar and capitalization there, Einstein! Maybe you should stop calling others moronic.
Hi Babe...I love how you follow me...:) It is nice having a fan
Yes, I'm following you! Hahahahahahahaha!!!!
Watch out the grammer nazis are after you. The last attack of someone who has no argument against you is to correct your spelling and grammer. I purposely misspelled grammar.
Right. While someone calls someone else moronic and they can't spell or use correct punctuation or grammar, I have to point it out.... because that makes them a hypocrite.
People who know just one way of spelling every word seriously lack creativity
LOL....SwissMiss has a crush on me...LOL
Lucky you. Lets hope its not a Kathy Bates in Misery type of thing!!!
LOL...I hope not too
ha ok. not many sarcastic people around here like on other boards.
OWS
Why is the survey closed?
We started TheWallStreetProtest.com for this very purpose. We have nearly 10,000 voters. Please support us and vote. No registration required, tons of polls, and you don't have to answer all of them.
Please share, contribute, and suggest poll ideas.
I don't need 11-11-11 to remind me that America will always be number one in my heart...the land and the people that I love. Problem is, America used to work. The people had work. The system worked. Hey, EVEN the Congress used to work...(sometimes). God knows, it was far, far, far from perfect - but at least we all had some share in the struggles AND the rewards. But somewhere along the way, we lost our way. And now we have an economy and a political system that seems to work only for the rich. What they call "trickle down economics"... leaves most of us out in the cold cold rain. We need to get back to what America was, and what it should be, and what it can be. Occupy Wall Street is no longer just a place called Zuccotti Park - Zuccotti Park is everywhere. You can beat us and arrest us, you can mace and tear-gas us, you can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down a people’s hopes and dreams for a better life.....a life with dignity and freedom....for us... and for our kids. More power to Occupy Wall Street, as it spreads to every town and city - because OWS is us, and for us, and by us. It comes up from the grassroots, and it lifts us up in turn. With OWS America has found it’s voice, and that voice demands fairness and justice - for ALL. This land IS our land! AND WE WANT IT BACK! We want our LIVES back! We want our FUTURE back! But It’s more than just words.... It’s more than just politics. It’s your life, and how you want to live it. So why not take some time, find a quiet place somewhere, and consider this: Each of us has only one brief life....one chance....one roll of the dice...and many choices. It’s time to choose....to risk...and to act. If not now...then when? If not you, then....who? You DO have the power my friend....and the choice is yours. Don’t let your dreams die....
This message is to all of anonymous AND occupiers: Anonymous Central AND OccupyBend News supports the direction of a Resource Based World Economy:
http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/12599163860/occupy-solutions-uniting-humans
http://www.occupybend.org/news.php?73
Make this viral!
Anonymous Occupy Solutions - Uniting Humans
still wish they would include vocational/trade school as a level of education.
I hope that our indications will be followed and the results of the survey will be immediately pubblished.
Now a chance to show that there are a lot of repulicans participating in OWS not just liberals, both sides are fed up with having their voices drowned out by corporations
Amen to that, we were republican here. But we didn't leave the party, the party left us.
Never mind the fact that these links tend to open up links to other places, incentivized with the promise of monetary gain, and completely distract and drain energy from this movement itself - forget all of that.
The plain fact is that researchers often conceal both the purpose of their research and its methodology - and this cuts to the core of the principle of I.N.F.O.R. M.E.D. C.O.N.S.E.N.T.
I mean, great, they would have you sign a consent form, and inform you that your isp will be noted for purposes of their research - but by whom and for what - that you don't, and you cannot, know, precisely because the research industry has engaged in a pattern of absolute deceit.
I'm not granting my consent for anything without clear and precise understanding of what it is I am consenting to.
I think the information is going to be used to go to your house and sell you an Encyclopedia Britannica...
This is totally safe. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/OWS-wave3 is the link behind the text. surveymonkey.com is the home site and it uses HTTPS, this is the same thing you use on your banks website. and no, they offer a paid service. party lines for a web co like that is a biz killer. it's lagit.
"it's lagit"
I'm sure it is - and that is what I'm saying. Legitimate researchers often use deceit surrounding their purpose and methodology.
See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/04/04/319369/-The-shocking-truth:-Milgrams-experiment-revisited
also:
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20081219_milgram_experiment_revisited/
this is just one example of the kind of thing I'm talking about.
ok. so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ZtHrWiSAk whats new.
umm, I'm on dial-up, but that isn't new, I've been on dial-up for a long time now.
what's new with you.
wtf, what is the deal with everyone on dial up? hacker?
apparently you haven't been paying attention. the entire telecommunications industry is overcharging for services.
significant numbers of us are under or unemployed.
I think you will find that today, most black hats have high speed access either because they steal it or because their parents pay for it.
I finished the survey. It is very painless and does not take anywhere near 20 minutes to complete. Thank you for asking! S! MJ
ARE YOU kidding!!!! this research can be used to control our decision through media and deter the movement. I'll take it and eveything i check will be RANDOM
how can research be used to control our decisions? expand on this please.
If you take the survey be completely honest. They have published results before and they're pretty interesting, trolls and supporters a like. Found it odd they didn't ask how you aligned politically though, conservative, liberal, libertarian, etc. They did ask your party however, so i guess that mayyy cover whatever demographic they're looking for. Can't wait to see the results nontheless!
I did the survey, but I'm an expat Canadian, living in Asia. Hope it helps!
I started this survey, but it looks to me like a move on/dem thing, so I am not going to finish it. Anyone else feel the same way?
This is totally safe. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/OWS-wave3 is the link behind the text. surveymonkey.com is the home site and it uses HTTPS, this is the same thing you use on your banks website.
and no, they offer a paid service. party lines for a web co like that is a biz killer. it's lagit.
I am very concerned with the use of plurality elections and quorums by OWS. In a nutshell, you should speed things up by electing a 100-member BoD (a parliament), the New York Super-state Parliament, and include all the original and current 14 members.
http://www.usparliament.org/ss2.php
Once we reach 100 self-appointments total, you call for nominations.
After a brief nomination period, you have a dormant period for composing the single parliamentary ballot with three spaces for write-in names (refer to the USA Parliament rules). Usually we end up with 125 to 165 names after nominations, but only 100 get elected.
Oce the vote counting takes place, the 100 members are elected as a 100-member district under the Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system. Ballots not using consecutively ranked numbers are marked spoiled and excluded from the count. From the 100 elected names, a set of rules is elected by the biggest majority of voting members.
They are ranked rules, as a result of ranked (e)ballots cast as proof.
Whenever a member changes their vote on the rules, the order of the rules change instantly.
Email ballots can be printed out, and combined with the paper ballots, and all verification methods can be used to confirm (phone calls, etc.) the results.
Those rules are the guidelines. Please refer to the 8th USA Parliament's rules as a skeleton on which to base the NY super-state elections. The national parliament's elections start on 1/1/2012.
If you use the traditional concept of two-party elections, you'll create roadblocks and dysfunctions, and the 1/1/2012 kick-off date will be missed. Much like all current political parties small and large are already dysfunctional, and can't properly integrate all names including independents with accuracy of up to .99% plus one vote.
Failure to do these things will cause the entire year of 2012 will be lost, if you try to use plurality elections. The entire concept is built around a stack of ballots, which makes it very user friendly, and it's not based on being mean because the ranked choice ballots are used as the proof of a highly advanced coalition-style election.
I will count the ballots cast myself, should you need help. But there is no rush, and the New York Super-state Parliament will be elected anytime, as soon as the first 100 names are self nominated or nominated. Meanwhile, the national parliament is the main structure for the existing coalition, not the super-state level.
We are the only 100-member, and soon to be 1000-member, national elected parliament of which I am aware.
Please contact me if you need help, I have a lot of experience in making this work, and the USA Parliament's system works really well.
--James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] 415-686-1996
OWS is a leaderless movement as editerless Wikipedia did for encycolopedia's editers.
Wikipedia's information about the Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system, ranked choice consensus voting and third party/independent history is vastly insufficient and partial to the status quo and they're also hostile towards/censor the 8th USA Parliament's existence and activities.
The 8th USA Parliament's vote counting depends on freedom of speech, so I personally do not favor the Wikipedia organization or other censors in general.
The USA Parliament was founded by the Environmentalist Party (the Env Party was founded in 1983 in Pacific Grove California) and we're American, and we have that edge on the Green Party who was founded in Germany. Try to find the Environmentalist Party in Wikipedia.
Wikipedia says: "The Sainte-Laguë method is one way of allocating seats approximately proportional to the number of votes of a party to a party list ..."
BTW, the USA Parliament doesn't use the party list system at all, we're 100 independents, each elected with .99% (or 1/101ths), plus one vote each, for a total of 99% plus 100 votes.
In the USA Parliament, the role of the leader who is the highest vote getter in each category, is to distribute the ballots to their members. We have leaders, and we have people who have to count the votes correctly. You can't just set up a robot to do these things, someone has to be elected and accountable.
George Washington -Warns against the party system.
"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."
Silly, pure proportional representation (PR) wasn't discovered until the mid-1800s.
Plus, we need party names (and independent categories) on the ballot in order for better communication to the voter, while the vote is inside of the voting booth.
http://www.usparliament.org
The 99% is first place in The Time voting.
The Time voting does not use pure proportional representation. That is a democratically illegitimate election.
It says the "principal investigator affiliated with Baruch College of the City University of New York," but they don't say who that is. The existence of a principal investigator suggests there are undisclosed secondary investigators. All we know is that there is some affiliation with Baruch College, the business school perhaps?
They sure are doing some sophisticated marketing research for a grassroots revolution.
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i see your good intentions. but a peaceful OWS wont change anything. peace dont sell... peace wont win a war...peace wont change anything. even your government knows that. thats why they blow up and murder the opposistion. ask iraq.iran.afghanastan. Vietnam. iwo jima.Guatemala.Haiti.Korea.Hiroshima.Vieques.Tokyo.El Salvador.Lebanon.Yugoslavia .Nagasaki. Pakistan..like i said, good intentions. but a complete waste of time. blow something up! murder the senate.. occupy wallstreet? fuck that...burn it down bitches! im with ya!
hyperbolic language - hyperbolic thinking - brings to mind Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld - I suppose there is a grain of truth in there somewhere, but I don't have time to sort it out. You want to shout Checkmate! and all the pieces are not yet on the board. We might not even be playing chess. How are we going to endure till the other side is finished?
i see your good intentions. but a peaceful OWS wont change anything. peace dont sell... peace wont win a war...peace wont change anything. even your government knows that. thats why they blow up and murder the opposistion. ask iraq.iran.afghanastan. Vietnam. iwo jima.Guatemala.Haiti.Korea.Hiroshima.Vieques.Tokyo.El Salvador.Lebanon.Yugoslavia .Nagasaki. Pakistan..like i said, good intentions. but a complete waste of time. blow something up! murder the senate.. occupy wallstreet? fuck that...burn it down bitches! im with ya!
Dear Occupy Wall Street
Did you know that there is a UK band called " BLAME THE BANKERS" who play a mixture of pop, blues, jazz and Latin? They were formed about six months ago and if in NYC would love to play for you - pass it around.
http://www.youtube.com/user/blamethebankers
Good luck and keep it going until victory!
Best wishes
"Blame the Bankers" Band
Ive seen this spam so many times im gonna scream
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You should already know the answer from the U.S.
maybe I should rephrase it -
Why is it ok for North America's largest country by landmass (Canada) to be owned 100% by a european crown?
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Wow....lighten up....it's just a survey!
Why be light? i want to see something come out of the movement, and all i see are crazy ideas and poor implementation. I am just about ready to want to see OWS crash and burn so that normal Americans who are fed up with corruption will do the right thing. The number of bad ideas around here is at an extreme level.
"..... normal Americans who are fed up with corruption will do the right thing"
So, what's holding them up right now, since you're accusing OWS protesters of not being normal?
Just because they are not camping in a park and protesting doesn't mean people aren't doing anything. As evidence i will point to the Tea Party, who for the first time in history has changed the Democrat Party into a party that recognizes that massive deficits and debt are bad. So much so that they have jumped on the deficit bandwagon for fear of huge voter backlash. That is a dramatic change.
I occupy a cubicle in an office building. I make enough to support myself and have fun every now and then, though not much. My income level puts me near the middle of, but toward the lower end of the 99%. I believe in working hard, keeping my brain sharp, doing as I am told, and keeping ideas fresh in my mind so that one day I may be a member of the 1%. That is what the American Dream is about. You have to struggle on your climb to the top.
Really, I hate to break the news to you, but you will never be a 1%er. You may very well become wealthy in your life, I am sure that is possible but wealth alone does not make you a 1%er.
How do you know I will never be a 1%er? Oh, that's right. You do not. You do not know if I am about to introduce the next Facebook, a cure for cancer, or something else to the world that would yield an annual income putting me well into the 1%. For the record, I currently do not have plans for any of those things, but I could in the future. WHat you say has no grounds to it. It is silly at best.
The problem with 1%ers is that they manipulate populations of people for profit. So once again it is not just about money. It is about how that money is accumulated and at what cost. Wealth is not the problem greed is. When people suffer and die for your pockets to get fatter then you will be a 1%. When you can spare a billion dollars and still live the same lifestyle you lived before sparing that billion you are a 1%. When a third world country is having the life sucked out of it's currency because you are funneling cash out of their treasury and into your pocket, then there is a problem. If you have a business idea that provides a service that people want or need and you get rich good for you, go for it, you get my support. I know I am getting redundant here but money in itself is just a symbol. The difference between the 1% and an average person climbing the economic ladder. Is that the 1% dictates the value of that currency thus they are above wealth there is a barrier between them and us. We the people of the world can't just breach that glass cieling that is why we have to take to the streets. Sure we can get rich but we can't be above and beyond the financial system and government. These 1% get to be outside of law. They litterally get away with murder all the time and not because they are rich but because they decide who gets rich. They decide how much money is in circlation, who will run for president, who will get elected, how senetors will vote. You can dream your "american dream" all you want, you can try to horde your wealth but there is a difference between them and us and money is just the mere breadcrumbs that show us where to look, but they are beyond just mere wealth.
Occupying a cubicle! Masterful!
Doing as your told???? That is very very UN-american.
We do what is right
We think for ourselves
We DON'T do as we are told
Just ask the Brittish
Remember why we fought the british for indipendance in the first place, because we did not want their monetary system which was pretty much, as far as colonies are concerned, a private banking system.
History repeats itself, but hopefully the results won't.Hopefully this time we can get it right.
Doing as I am told by my employer, who pays my salary, which allows me to provide for myself. What I meant to say was that I do whatever my boss tells me I need ot do. If an issue of illegality or something I saw as immorality were to arise, I would quit and seek new employment because I am confident that I could find a new job. I do think for myself. I am sorry that "you're" ignorance will not let you see that. Furthermore, it is unrealistic to say that we do what is right. Everyone does wrong, and we all do it every day.
WE should probably speak for ourselves.
Anyway "America" is a prefab faux nation/ faux culture anyway. We are all just people at the end of the day.
hehehe, my ignorance?? you have yet to display what my 'ignorance' would be, thus, displaying yours.
And my employer respects me for NOT doing as I'm told, if it is incorrect.
Just 'following' orders is no excuse.
If you see something wrong at your workplace you speak up, do something, and after you make improvements, then maybe you'd be closer to the top of the 99%, like me.
Knowing something needs changed is worthless to your employer if you say nothing. Being able to think for your self is a high american ideal, even in the workplace.
That is what led our nation to the top, and why we are in decline.
The idea of doing as your told is what led to the Nazis and commies.
But if you need led by the nose.....
I never said anything needs to be changed. I enjoy my job. I never displayed what your ignorance was, thus displaying mine? You have some kind of weird logic going on. Please allow me to explain it to you. If my boss says something like, "Hey, I need to to get this done by noon today," I will get it done by noon. I will not say, "Screw you, I'm going to do what I want." I also stated (though in response to you) that I would leave my job should I find my work to be illegal or immoral.
Your ignorance assumed that I am doing everything I am told, in and out of the workplace. You attacked my casual statement that was intended to be specifically for the workplace and drew a false general conclusion about it. That is where your reasoning is flawed. Whenever I see a problem, I do report it. I don't get a gold star for it, because that kind of stuff is what should be done. My employer respects me for what I do, but does not put me on a pedestal for completing my daily work.
Perhaps when I am older than 22 and no longer fresh out of college, I will have a much higher salary - higher than yours maybe. For right now, an entry level salary is what I deserve and what I am worth. I am proud and thankful to have a job. Many of my recent graduate friends cannot find work, and no, they are not degenerates.
All I said is that I do as I am told in the workplace (my intended meaning was that I do the work I am assigned rather than complaining about it and ask to do better work), but you have spun it out of proportion, and accused me of false "wrongdoings," if you will, based on false premises.
I appreciate your attmpts to educate me about American ideals, but I will choose to think for myself instead. Oh wait, what did I just do there?
Also, you could stand to take an English course. I am anxiously awaiting your reply.
First, congratulations on having landed a good job, one that you like. You're very lucky.
Of all those millions of people currently unemployed because of the unethical and likely criminal actions of Wall Street and the politicians who support them, only one in four are likely to find a job of any sort any time soon. Not even flipping burgers in McDonald's, since there is only one job available for every four job seekers in the US right now.
I, for one, make no suggestion that you are doing the wrong thing in any way by keeping your head down, working hard, and building a life for yourself. I only wish that others had the same fortune.
That said, don' fool yourself into believing you are really secure. You can be laid off for any reason or no reason at any time. Most people experience that event at least once in their lives. And many people are laid off precisely because they have worked loyally and diligently at a company for years: they have gotten too expensive to keep, either because they actually use their health insurance (company premiums go up as a result) or their salaries have actually gotten good. They are then replaced with younger healthier, and most of all cheaper employees. It happens all the time. And when it happens, people who have never considered themselves unemployable suddenly find themselves unable to make it past first rounds of job interviews.
What's more, the chances are that if no part of this scenario ever effects you, you are FAR less likely to attain upper middle class status by working hard than anyone in your parent's generation. Upward class mobility has not only stalled in this country, but has moved backward. The American Dream had died for the majority of people here. That's not rhetorical, it's statistical.
So, again, congratulations. Truly. But keep in mind that your fledgling success does not mirror that of most of your fellow citizens, nor does it preclude your support of a movement whose goal it is to secure your kind of success for a greater number people.
I appreciate your words of encouragement. However, I believe you mistakenly wrote effect when you had intended to write affect. I am not trying to be rude, just pointing that out to you. The words have drastically different meanings, and I just want to ensure that you use the correct one.
Gosh, I see all sorts of typos and misspellings in my post. But I believe "effect" is the correct word, as in: a change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause. Your job security can be effected (not affected) by any number of things outside of your control. A nationwide - indeed international - economic meltdown that you have not contributed to in any way is one such cause, and it has effected tens of millions of people, none of whom are guilty of engaging in socialized financial risk with other people's money, or committing fraud on a grand scale. Those violations were perpetrated by banks and Wall Street speculators, and this movement is rightly expressing anger at them and their political servants for doing so and creating misery for so many. You have been very lucky to have avoided these terrible consequences....so far.
As to encouragement, you're very welcome; it is my pleasure. My concern is - perhaps unwarranted - that you see the OWS movement as somehow opposed to the kind of success you are experiencing, and are withholding your support because of it. There seemed to be an implication in your original post that somehow lack of success on the part of other people is related to a character flaw (laziness, lack of drive or ambition, an unwillingness to abide by workplace rules, etc.) instead of forces beyond their control. If that's the case. I assure you it is wrong. And I hope that you support the cause, especially since it is trying to lay a foundation for more fairness, more equity. It wants to make sure that millions of people like you also have a chance at success, and that such success is secure.
Please join us, if not in body, then in spirit. Add your intelligence to the group. Contribute your ideas, suggest possible actions, criticize flawed strategies, be open to learning. By joining together in good faith, maybe we can help change things for the better for all of us, and generations to come. Share yourself, so others can be successful too.
In reply to your phrase
I never displayed what your ignorance was, thus displaying mine? You have some kind of weird logic going on.
Logic may seem weird to you, so, I'll type slow, and use fewer syllables (thems parts of words)
The claim that I was ignorant without backing it up as to why, shows either a lack of knowledge, or the belief that a stated claim makes it so, both of which shows a certain lack of understanding i.e. (means in other words) IGNORANCE
Then you continue with:
Your ignorance assumed that I am doing everything I am told,
You assume I assumed that, whereas I was critiquing your phrase
"Doing as I am told by my employer,"
I do so because this is a phrase that sheeple in general use, and is 'part-and-parsel' to what has gone wrong with our country. I was not making an assumption to your level of servility( google servility)
So, if you took it the wrong way, and I have hurt your feelings, I am sorry( pat pat on the head) your young, and may have too thin a skin but, I wish not to assume so.
But, if you can get past your thin skin and stop just doing as your told, maybe you could get past me in earnings, It's all part of the growing up process, and that would be great!
But, if neocons continue to run our great country into the ground, then we are BOTH screwed. I take action now to prevent this. Taking action has got me where I'm at. And I, for one, will NOT simply 'do as I'm told'
And weather you take that as an American Ideal or not, depends on your knowledge of American history. It's a grown up thing, you wouldn't understand.
Seriously? You're going to type slow so that I can understand? That does not, at all, change the speed at which I will read it. And in regard to syllables, I have a vast vocabulary, and understand 99% of the words people use on an everyday basis. It's the 1% that screws me. Haha, get it?
I do not appreciate you undermining my intelligence. I do not understand why you repeatedly do such a thing. I do not know you, and thus I cannot make an accurate assessment as to the level of your intelligence. Even if I could, to tell you that I find you to be of a lower intellect would be rude, and thus I will not make any judgment about your intellect. I will, however, correct you where you are wrong, but not conclude that you are stupid because you are wrong.
For one thing, debndan, you do not know me, and I do not know you. I never made any presumptuous statements about you, yet you continue to make them about me. I need not point them out. To say I do not understand a "grown up thing" is foolish. What are you even referring to as a "grown up thing?" American history, American ideals, or not doing as you're told? All could be past participles of "It's." Also, ending a sentence in a preposition is generally frowned upon. Oh no, I just did it myself.
I believe I must reiterate and once again clarify what I meant by "doing as I am told." epa1nter said it best. Perhaps I coneyed the wrong message, and for which I apologize. I simply meant that I work hard, keep head down, and complete the work that I am assigned. I do so in order to keep my job, and keep providing for myself.
I could easily fall back on my welathy parents and grandparents, but my pride is too strong for that. I want to make my own way. Is there anything wrong with that?
Also, why would I Google servility, when I could use a dictionary or thesaurus instead? I know the meaning of the word, though. It seems as though you do not know how to use your resources correctly. But wait, for me to say that would be manipulating your words into a specific case and drawing a general conclusion based upon that specific instance. You repeatedly do that to me, but that would be wrong to do it back to you.
As you very well may guess by my username and what I have stated thus far, I am conservative. I find these protests amusing, and wanted to see what information I could find on the Internet home base for OWS. I believe in a small government and, more importantly, a free, open market. I believe our government is turning into too much of a tyrant, and furhter government interference in the marketplace will only worsen things. That is just one guy's opinion, though. Unfortunately, we are yet to discover economic and tax systems that work to provide consistent, steady growth. I am not right, but I am not wrong. If your ideas are dissimilar, you are neither right nor wrong. I just believe that conservative principles are the best for our country. Inherently, capitalism cannot work out for everyone, but it gives everyone a chance.
I believe I am done with this post, but feel free to respond/show your friends/allow the rest of the internet to see. I am not conceding the argument. I just have better things to do... like a weekend tee time, a couple sets of tennis, and some time at the bars with my college buddies. May you have a good weekend and may God bless us all on this special Veterans Days.
Hehehehe on your response:
"Seriously? You're going to type slow so that I can understand? That does not, at all, change the speed at which I will read it. And in regard to syllables, I have a vast vocabulary, and understand 99% of the words people use on an everyday basis. It's the 1% that screws me. Haha, get it?"
You may need to Google the word sarcasm.
And as far as 'undermining your intelligence', not to be childish(too late, I know), but you started it. To give a rehash, you said I was ignorant, without backing it up to as why( which also means that you assumed, though now you claim not to have). I pointed this out as a form of ignorance, you didn't understand. I explained further, thus proving my point : )
The rest of your points, except one, I refer back to: google sarcasm.
Your one point :
"I just believe that conservative principles are the best for our country. Inherently, capitalism cannot work out for everyone, but it gives everyone a chance."
Believe it or not, I too, am a conservative. But that's the crux of the matter. Today I'm considered a paleoconservative, and many in government, news, and corps, claim to be conservative, but are not.
George Bush claimed to be conservative, then promptly expanded the size and scope of government by the largest amount since Lyndon Johnson. And he didn't raise revenue to pay for it. But what he DID do was make government more intrusive (see patriot act among others) in the lives of the citizenry.
Along with this, he expanded trade with communist china, where freedom is squashed.
None of these are conservative, this is neoconservatism, and this is what has brought our country to it's knees.
And it was done by a GOP president, and congress. But they were only able to do it with a 'do as your told' party
Yes, capitalism works, but we don't have that, we have corporatism. And it's being practiced by both parties. To which OWS points this out, rightly.
To assume OWS is a bunch of liberals, is just that, an assumption. There are many many paleoconservatives along with the 'classical' liberal thinkers here. And we have common ground in that we recognize BOTH parties are to blame for the corruption of the system. And that the whole apple cart needs overturned.
And yes, may the good Lord bless us all on this vererans day.
Oh, also I apologize for taking so long to respond, I was working when you responded.
And I also apologize of such a long post, calling you a jackwad woulda been quicker, but I prefer to explain why.
also you may want to google sarcasm, not sure if they covered that on blues clues, I don't want to assume so.
i dont like this kind of institutionalizing of a movement that is not even 3 months old. why is the website being used for this? who else gets to decide use the website to post their surveys? i would hope the general assembly voted on this but even that doesn't justify it in my eyes. im a big supporter and I just dont think this is the purpose of the movements official website. it has a place somewhere but not here.
I completely disagree with your opinion and find some of your words confusing. If you look at the GA link you will see all kinds of attempts to institutionalize this movement and to do it in a rational and thoughtful way--when posible. I think it is essential for this movement, if it wants to reach mass scale, understand how best to do that in a principled way, and be effective, to have--as the wording above suggests "a sense of the characteristics and opinions" of users of the site and persons participating in OWS. We should not be afraid of knowledge and information--we should embrace it. It is easy to criticize...It is much harder to do something, suggest ideas, and be constructive.
im there everyday working, talking, helping out where i can. criticism isnt bad and it isnt easy. my opinions come from concern and love for this thing. i dont oppose structure, i just dont think this site should be the place for surveys.
Also, I don't fear knowledge or information. I don't believe a survey inherently represents knowledge. The type of information a survey culls has potential to be useful but the word "use" is not static. It varies with one's agenda, intentions, position.
Absolutely agree. There are some really crappy polls and surveys out there--including many that to try to demonize OWS. I have seen this survey and I believe it is an honest attempt to get some useful information.
"Click the dot" is a plurality system, and perpetuates the two-party system in elections. Ranked choice polling is based on algebra, and much more advanced. Generally people set up plurality voting systems like this one, because a robot can do the math, and it's easier and opportunistic for programmers.
Excellent. Glad you are helping. Many others are too. I still completely and respectfully disagree with your opinion. There are many things happening here. One of them is a survey. I do not have any problem with that and I stated some of my reasons.
I agree
To: Prime Minister Roseanne Barr [Green Tea] Prime Minister Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian] Prime Minister Charles Bruce Stewart [Green Libertarian] Secretary Jacob Covich [Catholic Trotskyist] Cc: All Voters and Non Voters From: Secretary James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] Subject: USP: Day to Day Updates 11/9/2011
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