Occupy Wall Street Takes On Health Insurance Industry
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 26, 2011, 1:28 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Wall Street’s control of health care is exposed in a march/speak-out today that starts at the offices of Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield, a subsidiary of WellPoint, the largest publicly-traded health insurance company. We are gathering at Liberty Square at 3pm and marching at 4:30pm!
Empire is housed across the street from the OWS encampment in the same building as Brookfield Properties, the multinational that owns Liberty Square (formerly Zuccotti Park). WellPoint’s CEO, Angela Braley, was compensated $13.1 million dollars last year.
Other targets include WellCare, the for-profit company that administers Medicaid and Medicare Advantage programs in New York and other states, currently being investigated for illegally siphoning $400-$600 million from programs like Medicare and Medicaid.
The march will end at St Vincent’s Hospital in the West Village, closed earlier this year due to bankruptcy, and seen as a casualty of profit-driven insurers. There are now no hospitals on the West side below 57th St.
“We need a healthcare system that meets human needs, not the insurance company’s bottom line,” said Dr. Elizabeth Rosenthal of Physicians for a National Health Program. “People can’t get care they need because of unaffordable co-pays and deductibles that line the pockets of insurance CEOs and shareholders.”
“I have a health insurance plan with a $15,000 deductible, so our family has to ration healthcare,” said Katie Robbins of Healthcare-NOW! NYC. “We have to get Wall Street out of our healthcare system.”
The march was initiated by an OWS Working Group called Healthcare for the 99%, which is composed of healthcare workers and people who seek to end inequality in our healthcare system and our society.
WHEN: Wednesday, October 26, 3pm - 7pm
WHERE: Starting at Liberty Square (Zuccotti Park), Broadway and Cedar
MARCH DETAILS:
ASSEMBLE 3pm - Liberty Square (corner of Bway and Cedar)
SPEAK-OUT 4pm – Liberty Square
MARCH 4:30pm – Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield / One Liberty Plaza
ARRIVE 5:30pm - WellCare / 110 5th Ave
6pm – St Vincent’s Community Hospital / 12th St & 7th Ave
The facilitation of the meltdown of the American economy through the elimination of appropriate regulation of our financial sector and the failure to adequately deal with the root causes of the meltdown by our government, go far beyond the corruption of individual political leaders and public officials. The democratic process itself has been corrupted. The executives of multi-national corporations and those with great wealth have such influence on our government and its supporting institutions–the media and the political parties–that our political system has devolved into plutocracy.
I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans, of all political stripes, are concerned about the corrupting influence of corporate money on our government. As long as corporations can purchase campaigns and politicians to warp the political process in their favor, we will not be able to address more specific concerns. In other words a healthy democracy is a prerequisite for tackling education, health care, energy and other policies that contribute to a fair and sustainable society. Fixing our democracy is fundamental and must be primary.
This task is daunting. The enemies of real democracy are not just Wall Street corporations but include mainstream media, insurance companies, entrenched energy, the political parties themselves and others. Our only hope is to promote a message that really does appeal to an overwhelming majority of ordinary Americans of all political stripes. That message is real democracy. Fixing democracy is unifying, popular and fundamental to further reform. The first demand must be democracy! http://outlierideas.com
If America was a direct democracy we'd still have slavery. Democracy does not have the ability to protect the minorities (political and racial). also inconvenient and time consuming. picture articles of confederation times 1 billion. moreover, big business is not at fault here. It is the government. When you are bitten by a wild (crazy not undomesticated) dog do you blame the dog or the owner? It is the governments responsibility to make sure that big businesses do not have the power to hurt us. That means enacting laws that dont allow the rich to have disproportionate influence. a cap on donations to campaigns would be a start. Laws against predatory loans, an increased tax on the rich, these are all basic ideas moreover we need to recognize that food, shelter, healthcare, and education are basic human rights, not privileges.
There is a certain element in our society that has a freak-out every time America and democracy is mentioned in the same breath. I understand that we do not have direct democracy and that the United States is a republic. There have been many "republics" throughout history. The specific type of republic that is America is defined in the Constitution of the United States. This type of republic is often referred to as a democratic republic and there are democratic principles woven through our republic. For example, open and free elections, all citizens being equal before the law and having equal access to legislative processes are generally considered elements of democracy. The Republic of the United States, as defined in the Constitution, is considered a representative democracy.
In any case, even in a republic, multinational corporations should not have more influence on the political process than the citizens of that republic. When billion dollar corporations and multi-millionaires have disproportionate influence on the political process, the democratic republic is transformed into a plutocratic republic or plutocracy. I am against multinational corporations having greater influence on our political process that the citizens of the United States of America! outlierideas.com
i am against the idea of any individual have more influence in an election than another. No corporate donations, a cap on civilian donations
Sounds good, but someone who donates obviously has more influence than someone who doesn't donate, right?
Your comments regarding direct democracy are right on. However, suggesting that more laws (representing the heavy hand of government) to fix other laws (yet more big government) may need some fine tuning. I'd suggest letting competition and less interference from government for a while instead of the morass we're currently steeped in.
The victims protect the criminals at OWS
read more -- http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
The Kardashians have an audience. No talent stupidity is turned into $35,000,000 confirms the complete trance that the entire country is in. The Kardashians have draw in an army of morons to watch them and generate a bonanza but no one except me notices. Was the American pet rock as dumb as the Kardashians because no one has ever noticed how stupid the pet rock was.
Steven Colbert had a serious interview with OWS spokes people who explained all their rules. Colbert made it a joke for his audience to laugh at. That's what Americans do now they want to laugh at ridiculous behavior without ever realizing that it is beyond dumb. The bottomless pit of stupidity, crimes, and lies goes buried in "political correctness" that prevents any serious criticism for stupidity. The trance is protected better than Fort Knox protects the gold by the trance that makes all Americans angry when I mention it.
The trance may never be broken as the Americans keep being thrown into the street by millions of foreclosures. The trance has them shielding the simple crimes that caused the mortgage meltdown but privileged liars and criminals are all protected by the victims. OWS is there to protest being victimized but they protect the criminals because they refuse to elect officials. They completely believe the criminals will become nice because OWS sat in the park and wrote demands. This is berserk but political correctness prevents any sensible strategy to deal with the crooks who own the government with bribes.
We're a democratic republic, not a democracy. I'm sure you've heard this a million times before, but the definition of a democracy is a pack of wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.
Read this excellent book on the reason our health care costs so much in this country:
http://www.amazon.com/Money-Driven-Medicine-Reason-Health-Costs/dp/B000MGAHZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319673717&sr=8-1
Our health care costs so much mainly because demand outstrips supply and it will only accelerate in the future. Our country is getting much older and there are fewer people entering the work force. The demographic trend is not our friend.
There are many other reasons than that. Read the book.
what book?
Money Driven Medicine:
http://www.amazon.com/Money-Driven-Medicine-Reason-Health-Costs/dp/006076533X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320355678&sr=8-1
Another excellent book is:
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-America-Global-Better-Cheaper/dp/0143118218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320355753&sr=8-1
Of course there are many more reasons. I should've worded that differently. Supply and demand are "part of" the reasons.
Are you for or against single payer? Are you in the health care field?
Another book I recommend is: http://www.amazon.com/Healing-America-Global-Better-Cheaper/dp/1594202346
No, I am not in favor of single-payer if you define it as a single insurance pool run by the state. It's monopolistic and can only result in government-bred inefficiencies and corruption. Competition, IMO is always the answer to all levels of market needs.
Right on. We need overwhelming majority to restore democracy. But how? In the past they used to chop the heads of these people....we are supposedly more civilized these days and use non-violence to get our objectives through, but THEIR methods of stealing and lying have not become more civilized...so how do you deal with that?
We were never supposed to be a democracy, and shouldn't be.
You are right, we are a republic. We should stop our politicians from being bought by and beholden to the business community. They are elected to represent the people, but it is the business community they have to suck up to because of the money to get elected.
We've done it before, multiple times just in the last hundred years. The Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffrage are just two that come to mind. It is possible to beat the moneyed interests. One specific example just popped into my head, all it took was one book. You had a powerful industry with many friends in Washington, a president who disliked regulation, and just one freaking book opposing them. Who could have guessed, the book won. The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair.
You can read it for free: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/140
And here's the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
the jungle alone did not fix things. to suggest that is cinda dumb
Don't want get into it with a guy named after one of my favorite fictional characters. TR didn't want to do anything. The book and the outrage over it took it out of his hands. It helped that Sinclair took copious notes, so he could prove his allegations. Even then, not much was done. TR bowed to pressure and decided to send a "secret" mission to the slaughterhouses and meat packing plants. The mission found further proof that Sinclair wasn't making it up. Then the public pressure for reform only grew from there. So yeah, "a book" can't do anything, but the people who are motivated by the ideas in the book can. Nothing would have happened without the publication of The Jungle.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means/
wait a second your canadian. GTFO
Get with it and enjoy the WORLD being on YOUR side for a change
I am a Canadian and do I have to be American to get screwed over by your policy... thats a no man this is a worldwide movement if you think this is all about America well YOU probably are not doing anything about it anyways
you have free healthcare already GTFO
is that what you want outta this? we have free healthcare yes but just because I have it doesn't mean I can't try to help the world progress to the point where everyone has free healthcare if they need it. If you don't care for what I have to say don't read it but don't troll around Canadian hating we might be the ONLY real friends America has
America is built on stolen land by stolen people. that is why we dont have friends.
well you guys tried and failed to steal my land yankee and for that stain on your military honor the least i can do is befriend yah ;)
yeah but justin beiber so we win
are u kiding bieber may be the worst thing to happen to Canada but dude but you guys made the backstreet boys thats 5 biebers rolled into one
lol good point. anyway u gave us syrup and a good amount of our oil (which we should probably stop using) so props. yall got your viscous liquids game tight
dont forget the many uses of petroleum jelly !!
Fully agree. this is a systemic problem involving both sides. Frequently left leaning activists target the corporations and the right leaning activists target the government. This is something that we need to get together on. Because just as both sides are working together against us, so must we in fighting back.
The problem is that a lot of people still support Obama , but he is just as corrupt as the rest of them. Look at the amount of money he has taken from Wall St. Look at Obamacare, just more corporate loopholes... Change? I don't think so.
STOP HATING ON OBAMA. He is not corrupt, the Republicans literally Dwight Howard every single bit of intelligent legislation thought of. Also i dont think that there is corruption going on. People aren't being bribed. Republicans aren't being bribed by corporations on a personal level. The corporations just pour money into campaigns. There is a big difference between these two. One is VERY illegal, the other is simply immoral. The real issue is that Republicans are racist and/or stupid. You think youve got it bad? black unemployment rate is twice that of the average. This is messed up
I do agree, Republicans seem to want to use the race card an awful lot now a days. I know that black unemployment and median income is bad...very bad. Now look at native american income and employment, far lower than that of black women alone. We are all suffering because of this, its no different from you or me. The common factor i think between all of us is that we have all been damaged by Wall ST. deregulatory actions and Congresses, frankly, shitty ass decisions. Now we dont need to popp in the presidents pool right now. i for one like Obamacare because its the same as my state and allows me to live on my parents health insurance until I am 26. So I dont have to burden myself with health insurance bills until mid-college where I dont have a job. I like what the president has proposed, but I think it needed to go farther than just a "few" cave ins to Republicans ans a small dab of ink.
26 is mid college? high school was over at 18. it only takes 10 yrs to become a Dr. what is your major?
i meant white people.
I never did. And he's become a bad word around here. His approval ratings are extremely low. I think you've misread that situation.
OWS by the way has the highest approval rating.
Well said!
get rid of health insurance companies and there would be plenty of money for real health care services. They have burdened society with their profits.
But they provide a service. And they function in a business environment that is so jury rigged and regulated by special interests and government that it has ceased to be a free market. We need DE-regulation. Let Walmart offer health insurance. Don't force insurance plans to cover things that people don't want to buy. Don't force insurance plans to pay for things that are commonly needed (they are supposed to mitigate risk, not provide our every need) . . .
ARE YOU MAD? Healthcare is a HUMAN RIGHT! If you can help a sick person who cant pay to get better, then you should. If your opposed to socialized healthcare you cannot call yourself a moral human being
It is not moral for you to force others to do your bidding. It is not moral to remove choices for free people to make. And it is not virtuous for you to sanctimoniously throw around other people's money.
The way to help a sick person to "pay to get better" is called "charity": Give them your money to buy what they need in a free market, the same way you can give them money to buy a sandwich. Don't force the rest of us to pay for your dystopian grocery stores.
you say sanctimony, i say moral. dont call me a dystopian when there are people starving and dying of disease. when u can help out u help out. government is no different. if u arent willing to pay, you have the same mentality as the 1%
Help out then. Don't rob me and everyone else and call yourself "moral". B
You need to read up on what you are talking about. Another poster recommended a book that I have read and I highly recommend it to you. "Money Driven Medicine: The real reason why health care costs so much." by Maggie Mahar.
For profit medicine not only doesn't work, but it is immoral to profit from peoples health woes. We need universal health care.
Bucky, there are books written on everything under the sun. Unfortunately, most are not factual, they are loaded with opinions disguised as fact.
The fundamental issue is that competition improves options and lowers costs, while governmental regulation and involvement squashes improvement, raises costs and protects incompetence.
Competition does not lower cost. Are you competing to provide the best health care or to acquire the greatest profit? The doctor may be choosing health, but I guarantee the insurance company is only interested in profit margin.
The incentive of competition is to acuire the greatest profit margin. If I can eliminate the competion or rig the game, I can increase my profit. If I have to compete fairly, then I may have to lower my price, but begrudgingly.
Competition works on items that are optional to life. I can choose house, A, B or C at varying degrees of cost. It's not efficient for our society to have people choosing to live sick or to live healthy but sacrifice their homes. It's the same choice as whether to educate everyone, or just those that can afford it.
Competition built this country. Meddlesome politicians, corporatism and "giving the people what they want" (despite the Constitution warning otherwise) has put us on the path to irrelevance and collapse.
Also, your theories about competition are wrong. Explain Apple, now the biggest, most profitable company in the world, a company with products with premium prices, high quality. Competition allowed Apple to win, in contrast to your "price is everything" theory.
With all-out competition for consumer (patient) dollars, the Apple of health care could come to being. Thanks to overregulation, codified incompetence and legal requirements set in place with the new health care laws, the system has already shown early signs it can no longer function (businesses dropping health care benefits being the prime example).
You have the childlike view of profit that is so endemic to this group. Profit is what motivates people to take risk. And those risk takers are the ones that deliver all these wonderful goods and services that you want to consume.
Profit is not the only motivator you idiot.
Go put your life savings at risk then. You talk a big talk, so walk it
im 16
16 year olds shouldn't be calling other people idiots. I've forgotten more than you've ever learned. This world of fantastic health, wealth, prosperity was created by free people operating in free markets. Government was hired to build some roads and defend the shores. It has been hijacked by do-gooders and power mongers who think they know how to run the world better than the collective wisdom of a free people, and hence that they have the right to appropriate our wealth to accomplish this. Looting is looting, no matter what you call it. Get a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" and read it through . . .
If you consider Atlas Shrugged to be either a serious work of literature or metaphysics then you sir are the one who is the idiot.
This book is completely risible as literature and its so called metaphysics are just an obtuse and petty rationalisation of the desire to be an asshole and somehow feel morally superior in doing so.
I find it especially ironic that he book, in pandering to the reader as a misunderstood hero beset by 'looters', touchingly shows the author's intense desire to ingratiate herself with her audience; a fact that the author would of course vehemently deny.
Even though the book fails it in almost innumerable ways, the main problem with it is that humans are not rational creatures.
Even a first year course in psychology would teach you the opposite. Humans are of course capable of reasoning, but it is just one of several cognitive modules that contribute to our decision making, and maybe not even the most important one.
There are many many replicated and reliable psychological studies that have demonstrated this over and over again.
And even if humans could be made into entirely rational creatures they would lose in the bargain and become less intellectually capable.
Sorry but the 16 year old is an intellectual giant compared to you as demonstrated by this thread.
If you are lucky then this objectivist thing will just be a phase you will grow out of.
Go get yourself a better book, I hear they have a library at Zucottti.
Ahh yes, my favorite kind of pedant: A snarling hater of Atlas Shrugged! Like others in his small, lonely pack, he takes the book way too seriously. He can't grasp that it was written in an over-the-top style - like a Batman comic - and can't stand the thought that someone of a "right leaning" persuasion might feign to believe they have an intellect.
He engages not only in reasoning, but uses "cognitive modules" in his thinking, as he has evolved far beyond the trailer trash whom infest his world. We are not worthy of his intellect, and he wants us to know that.
I see sir however that you failed to address the book's 'metaphysics' and kept your response to the stylistic comments.
This is the more serious charge.
Yes, we are a small group of "Atlas Shrugged" haters. The group of "Atlas Shrugged" lovers is likewise small.
The vast majority simply shrug, which is all the entire corpus of Ayn Rand deserves.
To argue either within its premises or against them is to give her work more attention than it deserves.
It does not take vast intellect or complicated systems of pseudo rationalization built upon laughable premises to effectively live your life. I certainly don't consider myself superior.
You however, in relying on your over intellectualized world view, have failed in your matchup with a 16 year old. How proud of my intellect I would be could I only be in your place.
So have you read the book or not? I can't tell with all the big words . . .
Get rid of or greatly reduce other non health related costs and the cost of health care could be further reduced
I still don't understand the anti-trust laws that allow a few Health Insurance companies like United Healthcare, Aetna or Blue Cross Blue Shield to be allowed to just keep raising premiums to the point our medical and insurance premiums may eventually cost 50% of a persons take home pay?. Why are they allowed to bring down America? Isn't this a monopoly? Why aren't they told that all premiums except 2% must go for patients and an attempt to reduce our costs? They claim that in a round about way this could effect our national security? So if the government knows what's going on why do they continue to allow it?
It's about time!!! 50 million (minimum) uninsured and growing. This should be the top priority of OWS. Try to contact Anthem Blue Cross 800-777-6000 and you'll have to give your phone number to even advance one step through the automated phone system. Then to submit an application, you must first provide your checking account and routing number, so they can automatically deduct your premiums. No checking account = no insurance. Of course when you file a claim and get denied coverage, they'll still deduct your premiums. The number one profit evil is making profit off of sick people. NO PROFIT FROM THE SICK!!!
thats good though.. when it becomes mandatory , just dont have a checking account!
600 Million Dollars is a drop in the bucket... the FED steals TRILLIONS
I too am feed up, feed up with the fed printing money and devaluing my dollar, feed up with 14.5 trillion dollar debt and 114 trillion in unfunded liabilities, feed up with democrats and republicans serving a part agenda in lieu of we the people, feed up that government loans a half a trillion dollars to a company that everyone says is a bad investment and the President pushes it through because the major investor is a campaign donor, I'm fed up with DC saying that BOA,GM, AIG and the such are too big to fail, I'm fed up with having to be strip searched at airports, I'm fed up with DC giving guns to Mexican cartels and the call for repeal of my right to carry, I'm fed up with the global warming hoax and the trillions of dollars and job it is costing, I'm fed up with not being able to buy ANYTHING made in America, I'm fed up with 53% of the people in the country being on the public mammary gland, I'm feed up that just because I disagree with Obama I'm a racist, I'm feed up that Congress does not have the balls to declare war and I'm feed up that we fund the tyrannical United Nations and the tyrants who hat the USA. And that is just for starters
I too am feed up, feed up with the fed printing money and devaluing my dollar, feed up with 14.5 trillion dollar debt and 114 trillion in unfunded liabilities, feed up with democrats and republicans serving a part agenda in lieu of we the people, feed up that government loans a half a trillion dollars to a company that everyone says is a bad investment and the President pushes it through because the major investor is a campaign donor, I'm fed up with DC saying that BOA,GM, AIG and the such are too big to fail, I'm fed up with having to be strip searched at airports, I'm fed up with DC giving guns to Mexican cartels and the call for repeal of my right to carry, I'm fed up with the global warming hoax and the trillions of dollars and job it is costing, I'm fed up with not being able to buy ANYTHING made in America, I'm fed up with 53% of the people in the country being on the public mammary gland, I'm feed up that just because I disagree with Obama I'm a racist, I'm feed up that Congress does not have the balls to declare war and I'm feed up that we fund the tyrannical United Nations and the tyrants who hat the USA. And that is just for starters
It seems like there is a bit of confusion in the American population on how he system works, so let me try address this misconception.
When you want something, there are only 2 ways of getting it. Making it or buying it. There is nothing free in this world, since everything had to be produced by the effort of a human being, and no human will do something for nothing.
The object in question is healthcare, and as far as I know, this is a commodity that most Americans cannot produce by themselves. Therefore, they must resort to purchasing this service and compensating the caregiver for the service rendered to them.
Many poeple want the government to pay this fee for them, but then the question arises, who exactly is paying for this service? The government can only get money from the people it taxed, and if someone pays their taxes to the government, and the government uses this money to pay for healthcare, it would just make sense to cut out the middle man and the person could pay for the service themselves.
It seems that people would not be complaining so much about healthcare if this were the case, so that must mean that these people want the government to pay for healthcare with money that they DID NOT contribute. For this to happen, the money must have come from somewhere, and since it definitly did not come from the recipient, it came from another tax payer. People demanding that healthcare be socialized means that they want other people, who can afford their own health care, to make up for the deficit. This is not fair to the people who pay their taxes and can provide for their families, since they are now responsible for providing the healthcare to all of ther other people who will never be able to repay them.
This violates the basic tenet of reality, that nothing is free, and seeks to make some poeple the slaves of others by forcing them to work for them for free. This is an abomination to the American way of life, to the idea of freedom for all, and most importantly to the responsible citizens that would be forced into serfdom to support their "fellow man"
Almost. I appreciate your well-thought reply sincerely. Very respectable. As you explain it, I could agree. But, I say it has more angles that what you say. First, do you believe in having a government-run police department or fire department? I compare health care to those institutions. At the moment you are being robbed, or have your house on fire, you do not treat fire or police protection as a commodity. You treat it as an institution that we agree can best serve the public in a take care of the emergency first, figure out who owes, if anything, later. Fire can spread, criminals can escape, and disease can spread. The person with their house on fire is least prepared to continue working while the house burns, and the person who is dying of a heart attack is least able to continue life as normal while they are in the middle of dying. Health is a priority. It's not a commodity. Healthy people can work and pay taxes. Chronically sick have to go on wellfare. It's best served as a public service and it benefits all if done so.
It's only serving as extortion when run as a commodity since it demands you give up all your assets or you will die for a serious, uninsured illness.
You say "free society". Within our democracy, we have a choice of what should work as a common service and what is left to a free-market. We choose as a democracy to build schools, roads, fire and police departments. This is our level of "common-leaning". We choose to leave shoes, houses, vacations, etc., as free market. With corporations taking more of the pie of our healthcare budget, we believe it's time to take their profit margin out of the equation. It would serve our society greatly to have all health care dollars go to health care.
only true in a world where there are enough jobs. if you accept this world.. you have no other choice.
everyone seems to think that this philosophy is fine for business. if one section cost more.. you take the money out of the section that is making money and pay for section that is not making money. what is wrong with that method? can only be greed on the part of side that is making money do you want the entire business to fail? both sides?
Its not serfdom!!!! Wow, its like any socialized program to you is enslaving. Well, you must be enslaved to the medicare and medicate system, to the social security system, to the education system, and to the normal taxes you receive every year of odd stuff. Wow, your really enslaved. Me...well I love those programs like social security and public schools and interstate highways and national parks. Things like that dont seem to be owned my just one person (hence why its called public space/land). Well, while you continue thinking your being enslaved, I will enjoy a nice recreational walk through my nearest national park. Ill also take my neared interstate highway to get there :)
NO YOU FOOL!!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT SERFDOM! WE ARE SIMPLY ASKING THAT THE RICH PAY THEIR SHARE SO THAT THERE IS NO UNNECESSARY SUFFERING!!!!!!!! SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE IS NOT SLAVERY! It is one thing to say that it is unfair to have the rich pay for healthcare for the poor (this is a false statement) but to compare it to serfdom and slavery is to spit on the grave of everyone who suffered under both of these systems. Socialized anything is not oppression!!!!
Boccardi777... Best response I've ever read.
Let me address your confusion on how health care works, or in the case of the US and only the US, doesn't work for millions of our citizens. It does not respond to the usual business models or the law of supply and demand. Profit made on the backs of the sick is immoral.
You need to read up on the subject. Another poster recommended a book that I have read and I highly recommend it to you. "Money Driven Medicine: The real reason why health care costs so much." by Maggie Mahar.
I guarantee that it will open your eyes.
Bucky, money drives everything, not just medicine, and capitalism works, except when it is blocked by the force of government like a blunt instrument wielded by voters or special interests.
Um...no capitalism does not work. What happens when you hollow out your middle class??? What happens when you run out of markets to spread to??? You stagnate and decline.
Maybe we should look at other economic systems besides just capitalism...after all, it seems to done a very good job of taking care of EVERY AMERICAN so far hasent it??? Oh yea...no it hasent.
Since when is it the job of government to take care of everyone? Show me in the Constitution where it outlines this.
Go join the Teabaggers with that foolishness. Capitalism is savage and cruel. We need more regulation. Lack of regulation got us into this mess
THANK YOU!!!!! Thank you so much :)
Government CAUSED this mess by introducing laws to ensure that people who could not and should not have housing (because they could not afford it) suddenly had the means to destroy their own net worth with loans designed to get them into houses. I'm no Teabagger, Huey. I agree with little to nothing of their platform. But i do believe in personal responsibility, freedom of choice (including freedom to fail) and an economy built on competition.
Um...most people in America cannot perform calculus. Hell, I can barely do it and I am in AP Calculus! Those toxic loans that "we" should have watched out for, are exotic loans. You know what that means??? It means that the only way to derive a value out of it is to use calculus to properly predict what will happen and make sure you set up traps to do that.
Now, unless your as calculus genius who can do that out before signing a loan paper...then I will agree with you. But I highly doubt you are...
The funny thing is, I'm actually not very good at math either. But I could see that people were piling in on an overvalued market when little houses here in California were selling for $1 million and more. Common sense was completely lost on people who saw potentially huge profts with "no downside". The next bubble you see building, you'll hear the same optimistic talk and I advise you to hold onto your wallet and run the other way.
No Government did not regulate what banks could do. thats what caused this foolishness. YOu are a teabagger
Government caused the crisis because people, including "average Americans" demanded unwise policies which politicians were only too eager to serve up in order to gain more votes and political influence. No decisions are made in a vacuum. It's just like in the stock market... someone makes money on both sides of a trade. In politics, someone is gaining power because someone gave it to them (wittingly or unwittingly).
I like Wall Street. I like Capitalism. Socialism is not the answer to America's problems. I do not like the corporate effect on our government. I do not like the fact that the gap between the rich and the poor is getting bigger. Here is my suggestion. Attack individual Corporations, not Wall Street as a whole. How do you climb a mountain, one step at a time. I would like to see a list of the executive compensation for all publicly traded companies. We should make it clear that the American people will not support any Corporation whose compensation base is so highly skewed towards the executives. Stop buying their goods, stop using their services. They will make changes that improve our current situation. CLASHING WITH POLICE ON THE STEPS OF CAPITAL BUILDINGS DOES NOT SOLVE OUR
No. It's Wall St itself that is the root of the problem. There are certain practices that just should not be allowed and others that need to be tightly regulated. Our lives are being held hostage by greedy Wall St. manipulations of our businesses and the markets. Maximum short term profit over anything else is it's mantra. Greed is the result and is proving to be the downfall of our society. It's not one of the 7 deadly sins for no reason.
To illustrate to better understand the annual salary of a health insurance executive like Angela Braley, who was compensated $13.1 million dollars last year or $1500 per hour (this is $25 per second, 24 hours per day, 365 days per year) or $36,000 per day or $252,000 per week or $1,092,000 per month
I can live for three years on what she makes in two days. I'm a single guy with no kids, risking it with no health insurance, that's the only way I'm able to live on less than 25K a year.
Or you could make more money . . . .
I wish more people thought as you do.
The vast majority of people think like us. This forum represents about 0.0001% of the population - mostly the ones who have wholeheartedly adopted an entitlement mentality to guide their lives. I view it optimistically: It takes a truly affluent society to breed a subpopulation with the time, free energy, and sense of expectation that you see here. So long as they don't overbreed we will be fine and Rome will not fall. Eventually, many of them grow up and adopt a more reality-based world view.
Compensated by her shareholders, at cost only to them, not you.
She is compensated by the entire society of working people and in addition, her office tower (and the high compensation and class position) is being intensely protected and maintained by the NYPD and would if need be by the National Guard, the Army or whatever other armed force would be used if we as a people truly were to arrive at a period of equal justice for all.
Despite your implied threats of violence against her, she is compensated entirely by her shareholders. That is, those who risked their own money in funding the venture. The only people compensated by "society" are government employees.
I never implied a lick of violence. You seem incapable of acknowledging that police and armies are there to maintain "order" for those who benefit most from whatever current power relationships are in a society, including a society such as ours where those who make $25 per second have much more say as to how the police, army and street cleaners are utilized that do 99% of us.
Shareholders have very little power over how corporations spend their money. Their big new gain in "power" is being able to vote in non-binding resolutions called "Say on Pay".
Also voting, however, are the mutual fund companies who hold your mutual fund and 401k shares, and they vote them for their own benefit. They want the CEO's happy so they can get more business from them. As a result, they never saw a CEO pay raise that they didn't like.
Shareholders are everything to a publicly traded company. Without the funds shareholders supply, a company cannot expand, take risks, innovate or compete.
That's the theory. In reality, it does not work like that in a great many cases. If you are interested in the research on how executives use companies for their own benefit rather than the shareholders', just google "agency problem". That is the term for co-opting of corporation resources.
Shareholders supply funds only during IPO's (initial public offerings). After that,shares change hands without affecting the companies much, except in terms of reputation (share value). When a share is sold, the company doesn't get the money or lose money. What CEO's do is not dependent on what shareholders do except in rare cases.
Any shareholder who has shares via a mutual fund or 401k or IRA, etc., has no power because the voting rights of the share are in the hands of the money manager/ mutual fund company, which uses that voting power to curry favor with the CEO. That is a major reason why CEO pay has skyrocketed in lockstep with the growth of 401ks.
This is simply not the case. As a stockholder in a number of companies, I am entitled to a vote on decisions put before the boards of directors for every company in which I hold an interest. These decisions may even be items up for a vote that I choose to place before shareholders. Truth.
That is if you own the stock directly, which apparently you do. Most of the middle class owns stocks only through mutual funds and especially through 401k's. They don't get access to those voting rights.
In addition, your power to choose those board members is limited by the ways in which the nominating process is generally controlled within a small group. The board usually nominates everyone who is put on the ballot.
I'm glad you pay attention to issues on which you can vote. However, those votes are often advisory. The board has the power to ignore the result, and that does happen. Even "Say on Pay" is advisory.
When the vote is binding, the issue has been chosen by the board and framed by the board, and the materials you get on it come from the board. It is very expensive for groups of shareholders who disagree with a board's approach to an issue to send omitted or contrary information to shareholders. There are rights to raise issues at the annual meeting, but few middle class shareholders can travel to such a meeting as a practical matter.
So we differ on our view of how much power you have as a shareholder.
You make an excellent point regarding mutual funds and I'm proud to say that I own few of those, favoring individual stock ownership. I figure that if a monkey and a stockbroker can provide roughly the same returns from their picks, I certainly couldn't do worse... and I have done OK.
Good for you. I follow the advice in the Four Pillars of Investing, and have been pleased with the results.
I consider stock brokers to be used stock salesmen.
I reached the same conclusion about stock brokers a long, long time ago. Everyone (even "nice" people) operate from a position of self-interest. There's nothing wrong with that, that is simply reality. With that in mind, I saw that their self-interest dictated that they sell me something I didn't want or need.
Mutual funds are shareholders. Shareholders have ALL the power over how corporations are managed. The fact that most people don't own a majority of shares, and hence can't dictate to management, is just a part of the universe. Those smaller shareholders are leveraging the successful decisions of the larger shareholders: All are their by choice; none are compelled.
they also burden medical providers with denials and requests for medical records that increase providers administrative costs. it's unethical to make a profit by denying someone healthcare
As a medical provider, I have to share with you the amount of "homework" I get from insurance companies. I have been in practice for 26 years and I do an excellent job. I do, however, regret choosing a career in which my income becomes substantially LESS with each passing year, while the upper management employees of Anthem Blue Cross earn more in one year than I do in ten years. How do they sleep at night knowing that at the end of a working day they have DONE NOTHING to benefit anyone but their own bank accounts?
Have you considered private practice?
I can't imagine having a deductible like that. Lucky for me, I am a disabled veteran, so I have healthcare for free, although, to get an appointment, it takes months, generally. As long as I don't get cancer, it will be adequate. Paying 15,000 as a dectutible! That's more than half of what I make! I would hate to see you r dental plan. I am so sorry and I agree. This needs to change by any means possible. Let's just make sure our hard working nurses aren't the ones who suffer by losing their meager paychecks.
I think before filling out a basic questionnaire or application one should get a detail read on each and every aspect and they need to even watch out Terms and conditions before they sign for any kind of Insurance coverage !
http://www.medicaremaine.com/
The last three times I used a company provided health care
the insurance companies found reasons not to pay for it
12/12/12 is the day for all to stop paying their premiums to the organized criminals called Insurance Companies. This will be a big wakeup call. Stop Paying Extortion to the Mafia. This is like the local mafia coming every week to give us protection and safety and making you pay a payment to them. Then when you need them, they laugh.
It's so sad that St Vincent's has closed
I am a doc and I refuse to accept health insurance because of the lies they expect me to uphold. I feel bad for the people who cannot afford my services BUT I will not be a whore for insurance companies that primarily focus upon money rather than people's health. We need a single payor system. This is a great focus for the OWS movement.
http://wh.gov/bas
medicare has a 3% administrative rate. one of the big blues had a 35% adm rate, a few years ago. obamacare has a mandate that medical ins companies have to keep their adm rate to 18%. good job obama care. however medicare for everyone would cut 15% from the cost of medical insurance.
Time to Occupy the BOE Board of $Election and the CPD (Commission on Presidentail Debate - they are private and $ecret) BOE FL 7, 32 BROADWAY NEW YORK, NY 10004-1662 (212) 487-2170
Health insurance companies continue to be the biggest profiteers as they consistently jack up everyone's rates and deeply harm the American economy. Like banks, their behavior demands regulation. Because people can barely afford their high deductible premiums, they can't afford to visit the doctor. This is ridiculous! You won't hear dems or repubs even mention these failings - keep up the good work.
OCCUPY? who made up that name other than psyops government? come on sheeple. occupy is a movement made up by our government as a TRIGGER to start martial law. fema is right on track with its plans. it should be obvious!!! this website is extremely organized!!! but the "movement" is pointless scattered unorganized etc. everything is not as it seems. open your eyes. LOOK UP! monsanto must be destroyed
chant for wall street - sung to the tune of row,row,row your boat - "Goodbye, wa-ll street, you have had your day, merrily, merrily in every city, the people will are here to stay." Fritz Kersting, Puerto Rico
Q.) What is disgusting about this? A.) A for-profit healthcare system that delivers 100s of millions (billions) in profitable return to a small number of shareholders at the expense of so very many in our society. Ask yourselves why we even have to have a for-profit healthcare system? It's not because of research or 'future technologies'; managed care companies rarely do research and most recently it was reported in the NY Times and elsewhere that pharmaceutical companies are intentionally not making life-saving drugs because the drugs cost too much money to produce. The same pharmaceutical companies, lest you forget, who are given 8 billion a year by our government. Q.) Are those who vehemently argue that we live in a Christian nation and also rail against, what is disparagingly referred to as, “Obama Care” hypocrites? A.) Resoundingly yes. It is not Christian, in the least, to let 40 million Americans go without care and many more struggling to pay premiums one catastrophe away from bankruptcy while healthcare executives and CEOs make 10s of millions; one rather infamous CEO made upwards of 400 million in one year alone! Q.) Am I angry? A.) @%$# I am angry and deeply saddened that in this, the wealthiest nation on earth, we continue to think this is okay. We, as a country, equate capitalism with democracy and they are not equal. I really do not wish to criticize the reader but far too many have, and some of you reading this, have fallen into the trap of that false equivalency. Nothing could be more damaging than to develop within yourselves the fear to change your opinions and acknowledge that too many have been wrong for far too long. We owe the current incarnation of corporations (say the past 20 years) absolutely nothing.
Do not be fearful to acknowledge that the greed, gluttony, and lassie-faire free market acquiescence to all things involving corporations without regulation has been an experiment that has clearly failed. Hell, even Alan Greenspan acknowledged this under oath while testifying before congress. In a country in which eight Wal-Mart Heirs (and Heiresses) are worth more than the poorest 100 MILLION Americans (while paying hard working employees not enough money to survive) something is unfair, unjust, unchristian, and corrupt. Q.) So, why is it that we do not have a rational (morally and economically) and logically administered healthcare system that helps people without profiting others? In short, why is it we do not have a national-single-payer healthcare? A.) Let me be perfectly clear: The ONLY reason we do not have national healthcare is because of lobbyist & politicians who work on behalf of those whom own healthcare HMOs, PPOs etceteras. Roughly, 40-70% of every healthcare dollar goes to administrative costs (administrative salaries mentioned above etceteras) and managing the denial of procedures, policies, and managing non-treatment. Do not think for a moment that healthcare companies do not run without thinking about how to deny treatment via maximizing profits and they do a very good job at maximizing profits. Finally, even if I cannot appeal to your compassion, to your morality, and sense of fairness. Perhaps I can appeal to the readers desire to not be duped. Because that is exactly what is occurring with each passing day within this country. Make no mistake about it, as so very many emphasize petty differences the wealthy become more powerful, richer, and more entrenched on maintaining their riches. Moreover, I am not being overly dramatic in stating as much. It is astounding how quickly we have fallen from equality as a cornerstone of our democracy and this struggle to help others get healthcare is but one of many examples. How to fight against this tyranny of greed is quite simply via permitting our similarities to outweigh our differences and in so doing become more humane and compassionate once again; as Americans. Only then will our desire for a better life for ourselves, our children, and our neighbors find the necessary oxygen to breathe new life into, not only our democracy, but also our economy and our souls. Indeed, that much is at stake as we decide on the kind of country we wish to have.
medicare has a 3% administrative rate. one of the big blues had a 35% adm rate, a few years ago. obamacare has a mandate that medical ins companies have to keep their adm rate to 18%. good job obama care. however medicare for everyone would cut 15% from the cost of medical insurance.
The most under reported story in health care is how many Republicans support national health insurance. I have "good insurance" and can't get them to pay a claim without a fight. They profit by withholding health care, so they do. They are already rationing health care by defrauding their customers.
alan
Hold insurance companies accountable for denying required medical treatment, increasing their profits at the cost of human lives. End corporate person-hood! Support the Human Worth Amendment! Learn more at: http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/
Hold insurance companies accountable for denying needed medical treatment, increasing their profits at the cost of human lives. End corporate person-hood! Support the Human Worth Amendment! Learn more at: http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/
Your worst nightmare.... Libertarian health care?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/johnsson1.html
Time to open up health care to real competition. It hasn't been working out so great under the government models, and every country that offers their citizens "free health care" is a financial mess. Government grows only when we allow it to exceed their authority and charter. Said another way... stick to what is allowed under the US Constitution!
Look at your cause your crying cause u cant buy a new car. Your not oppressed, your not being forced to do anything, your not slaves, your not all dying, your not being slaughtered for burgers. There is no big cause there is no big revolution. Go Home spend time with your family and keep better track of your cash next time.
Healthy Citizens vs. Wealthy Citizens
Health insurance industry used a lie to cheat public: private entity is more efficient than government therefore, insurance business needs to be private and government hands off.
Although it is generally true that private entities are efficient, but the problem of health insurance companies is that they do not return money saved due to improved efficiency to patients. In stead, health insurance companies return profit to investors/shareholders, which triggered more exception of profit down the road. In the end, patients and doctors are under tremendous pressure but shareholders enjoy profit from other being sick.
If government has a role in our society, then health care is the one of the areas.
Many times, when you do not health insurance and paying cash for services, the health care price is very reasonable.
Health insurance is a false promise to us. The premium of $2,000/month alone would be enough to pay normal services as cash. If no one has health insurance, health care cost would be much cheaper.
I wonder if Scott Olsen has health insurance.
If he has access to a bulldog lawyer, he'll do well.
I wonder if Scott Olsen has health insurance.
i collect unemployment insurance and my cobra premium is $597 per month. I paid one month so far but cant pay anymore so I will be uninsured as of Nov 1st with high blood pressure, High Cholesterol, and borderline diabetes. Thank you Healthcare. What a beautiful thing!
My premium was going up to over $800/month and I am a healthy relatively young person. I switched to a Health Savings Account, which means that I now only pay about $225/month and I keep $4,000 in personal savings (invested however I want) in case of a catastrophic event. In the worst case, my $4,000 is used up and all other coverage after that is covered/free.
the real messsage is simple. a roof over my head, food in my mouth, and a job . I could go on , and be much more eloquent, and at a later date i shall. but for now this is the message
the real messsage is simple. a roof over my head, food in my mouth, and a job . I could go on , and be much more eloquent, and at a later date i shall. but for now this is the message
check out emblemhealth. they plan to go for profit. it's on their web site. their hq is near wall street
If they don't make a profit, I'd worry about their quality. For-profit is not the same as "evil". Is your grocery store "for profit"?
Its a sign that greed has consumed Health Care when one goes to the Emergency Room and later gets clobbered with a massive financial hit. Something has got to change.
I think money is being sucked out of America into 6 main areas: Health Care, Banking, Wall Street Schemes, Cheap Foreign Goods, Oil, and Tuition. The sucker punch is if you have an unexpected Health Care issue. Cheap Foreign Goods is a money suck that you really don't feel unless its your job that got outsourced. Banking Charges and Gasoline costs are a constant annoyance. Wall Street Schemes is like a vampire blood sucker of money.
or... if are kind of intelligent and not sucked into this 99% nonsense... you should see that a major advancement has taken place in our generation that this woman and others have risen to the top of major corporations and are able to earn 13.1 million dollars to put back into our economy. I bet it wasn't easy to get there. I bet it took hard work and no hand-outs!
This is an aside, but it should be noted and discussed how arrogant as well as ignorant media personalities are in believing that they are somehow the brightest and most capable minds and therefore worthy of judging the eloquence and intellect of demonstrators....laughable. Even the most knuckle headed demonstrators have more finesse then most all of FOX "News" pundits, while the majority of people are as informed and eloquent as Charlie Rose (not that this is a great accolade for demonstrators, as his cotton mouth these days is causing him to trip over words and sacrifice enunciation...and Fareed Zakaria asserts how "not everyone can be Charlie Rose..." Why the hell not? He's not that great of an interviewer!
Yes, health insurance that is publicly traded is about as entrepreneurial and sensible as education that is publicly traded. It is a scam that for profit companies are able to make huge profits because of the marriage between Wall Street and government, relying on the insurance of tax payers meanwhile denying them healthcare. Chris Hedges put it plainly and veritably when he described health insurance companies as "holding parents' children hostage," while they, the parents, are forced into bankruptcy to pay for their child's treatment. In Colorado, the vast majority of people who go into bankruptcy to pay for health care bills are people WHO ALREADY HAVE INSURANCE! The health care "reform" that we have today is a reflection of just how far insurance companies will go to preserve their corrupted and unethical system. In a time when industry wants to roll back environmental regulations, which help to keep us healthy and free from disease, insurance companies want to sell their limited and broken health care system at a premium. We don't need insurance companies, as they are a grossly unnecessary and ineffectual middle man.
Corporate Treason to America is what insurance companies are guilty of.
People have paid on medical policies for years, only to get dumped the first time they use it.
Think for a second....if you have a big deductible with co-insurance %'s what is your total out of pocket expenses before your insurance really kicks in...then on top of that and more importantly what will your insurance pay for and what will they not pay for...then even more importantly than that what does your policy say about what choices you will have if you become seriously ill...then what will they dictate to your doctor who will never tell you what the insurance company is allowing them to do based on their payment...then even more importantly what overall care will you get if you become a "liability without predicable outcome" meaning as far as the insurance company is concerned how much money will they spend on your care if you may die anyway...thats right folks...if they believe you may even get close to your lifetime maximum benefit amount your better off dead to them...so they start denying coverage and payment based on corporate loss %'s...yup...there is your Real Death Panels...and they all do it...so it's simple...pay your premiums and pray you don't get really sick...because depending on certain "unknown" circumstances you will die and nobody will ever really no why...cause the hospitals won't tell your family...the doctors won't tell your family...because the insurance companies own them...Got It...and that is the truth...so keep paying your high deductible ...high co-insurance policies...just empty your pockets and give it to them...they own your heath care anyway....ohhhhh HMO group plans...there even worse...good luck america...don't you just love for profit heath care in this country...lambs to slaughter...
So here's a question. If we as a nation can afford say X dollars per year per person (as an average), how do we develop a system to return the greatest public health for that sum or the less? What kind of system promotes good health practice by individuals, timely and most efficient care from providers? There are tons of things to be done in a system utterly dedicated to systemic health in the population.
Fundamentally I am curious if people see unlimited payment as "fair" or if they see it necessary to do the best within a limit. The nation needs also to feed, clothe,educate, defend, work and invest in itself concurrently.
The Problem is the Pharmaceutical Companies!!! Medicare, the second largest insurance company in the World (after the SSI) doesn't negotiate prices of Drugs, while every other insurance company in America does. Some drugs we pay up to $80K per dose! Why can't we negotiate. Pharma is the biggest expense of Medicare and Meidcaid. They write the laws, including Obama Care, they just closed the donut hole, which will pour even More (!) money into pharma's pockets....wake up everybody!
http://projects.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=723
http://projects.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=719
http://www.cms.gov/dashboard/downloads/partDdash.asp?agree=yes&next=Accept
This is a very serious problem...I made a very good living for years as an agent before the heath insurance companies banned together and changed everything around...in the past 10 years the Heath Insurance Industry has become a Scam and I can Prove it...I am no longer an agent and have been threatened by insurance companies to Shut My Mouth...I contacted several news networks over the years and even had NBC come to talk with me...They Didn't Have The Balls To Do Anything Even Though The Reporter Thought The Story Was Important Network Wouldn't Allow Him To submit The Report...it is much worse than anyone can imagine...I was a Top Earner...I Did A Lot Of Damage And Got Bonuses For Doing So Until My Soul Couldn't Take It Anymore...If Anyone Wants To Take Them On Every Level...contact me @ creamstp@gmail.com...People Die Every Day At The Hands Of The Heath Insurance Industry...They Know it And Could care Less....
Outlier: this is very well put. the problem is not only the financial institutions, but the conditions that allow them to function the way they do at the expense of our entire society. unfortunately, this means that laws must change and that involves perseverance to make it happen within our political system, not outside of it. i hope the OWS movement can harness all the energy it is attracting to eventually change laws, because that is the only thing that determines how things have to be done in our society. that means electing representatives who will fight for the 99% and getting more involved in the system, not less involved. marching and protesting is a great way to get the message out, but it will not change anything. we need to change the laws.
45,000 people die every year because they can't get to a medical professional or needed medication here in the US. ( 2009, Himmelstein and Wollhandler).
you have my support on all occupy matters !!!
I cannot be at the march, but wanted to post in solidarity with Healthcare for the 99%. There is no reason--other than corporate greed--the richest nation in the world cannot provide health care to all of its citizens. Health care is a right, and our failure to provide it to our citizens is one of the greatest moral failings of this country.
U.S. is the largest borrower in the world not the richest nation. Even if you ignore our enormous debt, still U.S. per capita GDP is far from making us the richest. As a result we cannot afford to cover more lives at the current costs of delivering care. Our current cost of care (medications, doctor visits, tests, surgeries, etc) are incredibly high not only because of health insurance companies. Pharma needs to make money, doctors needs to make money (to pay off school loans, cover malpractice insurance, buy a Lexus), test labs need to make money, and medical equipment companies also need to make money. Oh, did I mention that we have the best of all that stuff in the world. The fact that Europeans have universal coverage and pay less creates the need for companies to charge us more in the U.S. If they stop making money and go non-profit, then innovation will stop. My point is, this is complicated.
Big business owns medical. Big business does not care if you live or die.
The world Health Organization rates the quality of US medical low among industrial nations, while being the most costly.
Insurance really only pays a small fraction of the retail price of medical, but they base the cost of medical insurance on the retail. However, an uninsured person is expected to pay the ridiculous retail price (usually impossible).
Is this racketeering or organized crime?
It's about time! the bankers style fascism will leave you homeless. The pharmaceutical and health insurance fascism will kill you!
Forgive me for stating or re-stating the ovbiousThe "health" insurance companies need to be stopped in their tracks. They are a worthless "industry" who do not provide healthcare. They, like Wall Street, provide no real product. They both are miiddlemen paper pushers leeching off us via speculation whether it be stocks (not a product) or mortality tables (not a product). It gauls me whenever anyone (our elected, bought officals especially) mouths the words they are an "industry" and that insurance companies provide health care. Both Wall Street and insurance companies have spent gazillions in brainwashing advertising to convince us they actually have a product. Turn the TV off, cancel all your magazine subscriptions, and Go OWS protesters!
The "health" insurance companies need to be stopped in their tracks. They are a worthless "industry" who do not provide healthcare. They, like Wall Street, provide no real product. They both are miiddlemen paper pushers leeching off us via speculation whether it be stocks (not a product) or mortality tables (not a product). It gauls me whenever anyone (our elected, bought officals especially) says they are and "industry" that insurance companies are health care. Both Wall Street and insurance companies have spent gazillions in brainwashing advertising to convince us they actually have a product. Turn the TV off, cancel all your magazine subscriptions
I wish you all well, I have to admire the courage and determination of the movement to press forward, when our own governments are attacking us. Health care for profit is an abomination. Health Care is a Human Right. The US of A and Canada are two of the most advanced countries in this world, it is profound that profit is put before people!
Again the greed of the 1% takes a back seat to no one in our society, not even the sick.
In solidarity,
From Calgary Canada
clancy
"Health care for profit is an abomination"
Appparantly doctors and pharmacists and drug developers should work for free then right?
Health care is not a right. The ability to aquire it is, meaning that it should be available if you can afford it, but it does not have to be provided for free.
The health insurance industry adds nothing to medical care but cost. It is a deadly parasite that we all carry.
The health insurance industry also reduces the cost of medical care when they refuse to pay for medical services that are deemed to be to expensive or experimental. In these cases, they are real humanitarians and I hope they don't sleep good at night.
We need to get organized with a real strategy and objective. The 99% shouldn't be on defense. We should be on offense!
Join the smart Revolution - it has everything we need and more. Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM
Medical care: we all need it. We all deserve it. We have the resources.
Right on, because we breath we are entitled to health care.
We need to get organized with a real strategy and objective. The 99% shouldn't be on defense. We should be on offense!
Join the smart Revolution - it has everything we need and more. Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM
Well agreed.
As a physician, it is clear to me what control over the political process the pharmaceutical and health insurance corporations have on healthcare(or lack thereof) in this country. The wasted money on administrative (profit) costs and executive compensation is a crime. Medicare Advantage plans only increases the amount of taxpayer money that flows into their coffers without benefiting the Medicare recipients or their health outcomes.
I like Wall Street. I like Capitalism. Socialism is not the answer to America's problems. I do not like the corporate effect on our government. I do not like the fact that the gap between the rich and the poor is getting bigger. Here is my suggestion. Attack individual Corporations, not Wall Street as a whole. How do you climb a mountain, one step at a time. I would like to see a list of the executive compensation for all publicly traded companies. We should make it clear that the American people will not support any Corporation whose compensation base is so highly skewed towards the executives. Stop buying their goods, stop using their services. They will make changes that improve our current situation. CLASHING WITH POLICE ON THE STEPS OF CAPITAL BUILDINGS DOES NOT SOLVE OUR
This is a fantastic action, and I'll be there--we know that people have died since St. Vincent's closed because they couldn't get to a hospital in time. And the "healthcare" industry is FOR PROFIT, that's why the US has the most expensive healthcare but ranks 19th among Western nations in quality and safety.
PS I think we need to organize a defense committee for the occupiers in Oakland and Atlanta, similar to in previous movements. The defense asks people to support simply the right to protest. If people support the many demands, that's fine, but this separate organization is to support civil liberties. The line goes like this: you don't have to agree with what we're saying, you just have to support our right to say it. Millions of people who might not be able to see the role of capitalism and the ruling class CAN support our right to protest. In light of what's just happened in Oakland and Atlanta, I think we need to have an immediate response, politically--like petitions with famous names of people in a big New York Times ad, etc. A defense committee can also raise funds for bail, etc.
THANKS AGAIN!!!
rated 37th in the world for health outcomes.
Why can't you guys be responsible and go make your own money. Isn't that what they taught you in school? They wouldn't tell you to go and knock on someone's door asking for money. It's shameful to look at you.
The health care system in America is yet another rotten apple in the whole barrel of rotting apples Americans have had to live with. Time to throw out all bad apples and return true democracy back into the hands of its people.
Keep Up the Good Work. Thank you to Occupy Wall Street for putting into Words and Actions all of our frustrations. Fair-ness.
They can legally kill anybody they want and they call that market efficiency.
Guys, my hat goes down to you. Bravo. We have to get rid of this corporate vermin that is choking our healthcare and make THEM return what they are stealing at the expense of sick people. We need legislation for accountability for these corporate crimes...!!!!!!!
An example from another country with high medical standards: The Netherlands. There is the price to insure of a family of 4 (2 parents and 2 kids under the age of 19) for 1 year: 3321 Euro = $4,600 That covers: Your general practitioner + all his medication; Almost all the dental care; All hospitalizations + surgery+medication (even abortion! -Holland, you know...) And psychologist/psychiatrist/physiotherapist/ natural medicine, you name it The costs in the USA are about $15,000 I know where that 10 grand goes....... Greetings from Holland!!
I love the excellent examples from other countries in the world. We can make a great system if we get the profit motive out of health care as a system.
Look Occupy Wall Street. I have been on your side since the beginning, but you are slowly but surely discrediting yourself day by day. I agree there is a healthcare problem in this country but it is NOT just the companies..... The governments heavy regulations, loopholes, and special treatment of some companies over others have helped CREATE the problem. By taking this constant leftist viewpoint you are helping no one but your opponents. As terrible as Fox News is, a lot of people listen to them and take them seriously (sadly), and today they brought out some stupid article about Occupy Wall Streets affiliation with some ex-ACORN rep... You NEED to distance yourself from these people if these things are true. We cannot have these things going on, even if they are helping, they are hurting in the long run. Let them protest. Let them take part, but do not let them have leadership roles, if this is the case.
Like I said, I have been on the side of OWS since the beginning, but these leftist viewpoints with no disgust towards the government, the second hand in these terrible problems, is causing a lot of problems. Wake up and smell the roses Occupy Wall Street, it's not just Wall Street, it is also the Federal Government!
Also lets remember, OBAMA IS JUST AS CORRUPT as the rest of the boneheads!
Kenny, ACORN wasn't a bad or evil organization. But it's a flashpoint word to get the right riled up. Just like most places, ACORN had some people who broke the rules, but their overall mission was one that most of us would support if they didn't tell us the name of the group.
I no longer have a general practitioner because he recently decided to form a "concierge practice" and charge each patient $2,400 (or $4,000 for a couple) as an annual retainer, above and beyond the insurance payment and co-pay he'd receive.
He's a wonderful doctor, but now he's only a doctor serving the plotocracy.
I no longer have a general practitioner because he recently decided to form a "concierge practice" and charge each patient $2,400 (or $4,000 for a couple) as an annual retainer, above and beyond the insurance payment and co-pay he'd receive.
He's a wonderful doctor, but now he's only a doctor serving the plotocracy.
An example from another country with high medical standards: The Netherlands. There is the price to insure of a family of 4 (2 parents and 2 kids under the age of 19) for 1 year: 3321 Euro = $4,600 The costs in the USA ate about $15,000 I know where that 10 grand goes....... Greetings from Holland WillemGT
Excellent example WillemGT. Thanks for the data. Insurance companies in the USA own our health care system and are making our costs 300% more than what is would be normally. Most medical providers now work directly for an insurance company in one way or another as they get most of their pay from them, not the patient. Exorbitant legal costs is another factor we need to fix.
btw, that covers: Your general practitioner + all his medication Almost all the dental care All hospitalizations + surgery+medication (even abortion! -Holland, you know...) psychologist/psychiatrist/physiotherapist/ natural medicine, you name it
I no longer have a general practitioner because he recently decided to form a "concierge practice" and charge each patient $2,400 (or $4,000 for a couple) as an annual retainer, above and beyond the insurance payment and co-pay he'd receive.
He's a wonderful doctor, but now he's only a doctor serving the plutocracy.
Beat on the Pharmaceutical companies too.
Only by defining the 1% can this opposition movement be understood.
http://notetoanon.com/2011/10/26/who-is-the-99/
they also burden medical providers with denials and requests for medical records that increase providers administrative costs. it's unethical to make a profit by denying someone healthcare
ABSTRACT:
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/27/1/58.full
Their systems are also cheaper than ours...by a lot and yes, that is per person. http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/15/us-healthcare-usa-idUSN1430711120070515
The unusually high cost is due to administrative costs not superior medicine
And no surprise, medical costs not taxes are the leading contributor to bankruptcies in the US: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934309004045
and the summary from CNN: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH
75.7% had insurance at the onset of illness: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=664565
A nice overview of different healthcare models: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/models.html
Bravo! The only solution is World Revolution.
The revolution in health care happened a long time ago in the rest of the world. We're the only industrialized nation on the planet that doesn't have some form of universal health care.
http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2011/03/high-ceo-salaries-at-nonprofit-hospitals-under-scrutinyonce-again.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/nyregion/16about.html http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2011-10-10/doctors-income-fees-health-care-cost/50721516/1 http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/26/business/la-fi-insurer-executive-pay-20110526 http://blogs.ipro.org/ascannerbrightly/2008/02/19/hospital-bill-appendix-ultimatum/ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/05/26/735411/-Health-insurance-industry-CEO-salary-survey,-stay-calm-for-this Health care insurance companies and hospitals are the next "too big to fail" - universal health care or universal insurance now. And it's not just the insurance co's: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/bizfinance/finance/features/4086/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means/ support the movement in any way you can we fight for you and yours!!
And shareholders you know beat the high price of health care or the price of food invest. The system is backwards salesman including the President of the United States tell the thinkers what decision is being made wrong should be the other way around. The difference between the two salesman and thinkers---truth and knowledge to say the least.....
Thought it may be a good topic considering the 3pm event
My earlier comment should read that in 45 days 250 registered nurses will be laidoff indefinately into the future if not permanently by Westchester Medical Center
Westchester Medical Center gave 45 day notice to the New York State Nurses Association of a layoff of 250 Nurses - in retaliation to the Union not caving on demands by Hospital Administatraors in Contract Negotiations. Not only does this impact 250 Registered Nurses and their families and co-workers but severly hampers healthcare and safety in the Metropolitan Area. All department managers at the major trauma center are crying for increasing staff at already overburdened nursing staffs. Hospitals as well as pharmaceuticals and insurance companies are showing record profits but as usual the Bottom Line prevails!!!
It's much easier to get resonance with this new theme than the previous controversial topic:-) ~acarefreeman
Great!
[Removed]
Oh goody. Another march. Who will cue us to throw the bricks and bust the windows? And who are we attacking this time?
You're embarking upon one of the biggest problems and evils in this country.I wish you luck. There wouldn't even be a healthcare problem if Obama had gotten through the public option, where all of us could have gotten care at a discount rate. As it is, it's probably an insurance company's dream come true:mandatory insurance. It's funny how the TeaBaggers and the Republitards complained about Obamacare but forgot to complain about the unconstitutional auto insurance jammed down all our throats. Under my program, I would have the government purchase a hospital in every major city in the US in addition to clinics further out. As it is, they have already paid for many of these several times over because every time they become insolvent, the government swoops in to bail them out. Once the government owns their own facilities, they should staff them with their own doctors,nurses and personnel to keep control over the costs. If they spent money on this solid asset system, there would be no need for the middle man insurance company operating for a profit. These are just a few of the ideas that i never heard anyone put on the table during all of the heated daily discussions about the subject. I never heard anyone mention thet we don't need health insurance, we need health care. insurance is a waste of government and personal money, only representing the middle mans greed in wanting a piece of the financial action. We could even pre pay the hospital system like it was an insurance, with 100% of the proceeds going to service and care rather than middle man brokerage profit. The hospital investment managers could take that money and play the sock market with it just like they do in private hospitals for profit. The earnings would go to creating more money for the hospital's bills like labor. In this plan, no money would be wasted on the middleman for profit. And the hospitals would be do all the free pharmaceuticals it needs at cost because it is our tax dollars that are given away in trillions of dollars every year in the name of research. it's time to claim as ours what we have already been paying for and subsidizing for years and cut the rest of the rhetoric out.
For those of you who believe Obama is not corrupt and fights against Wall Street take a look at his top donators in 2008.... then think again!
University of California $1,648,685 GOLDMAN SACHS $1,013,091 Harvard University $878,164 Microsoft Corp $852,167 Google Inc $814,540 JPMORGAN CHASE & CO $808,799 CITIGROUP Inc $736,771 Time Warner $624,618 Sidley Austin LLP $600,298 Stanford University $595,716 National Amusements Inc $563,798 WilmerHale LLP $550,668 Columbia University $547,852 Skadden, Arps et al $543,539 UBS AG $532,674 IBM Corp $532,372 GENERAL ELECTRIC $529,855 US Government $513,308 MORGAN STANLEY $512,232 Latham & Watkins $503,295
The victims protect the criminals at OWS
read more -- http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
The Kardashians have an audience. No talent stupidity is turned into $35,000,000 confirms the complete trance that the entire country is in. The Kardashians have draw in an army of morons to watch them and generate a bonanza but no one except me notices. Was the American pet rock as dumb as the Kardashians because no one has ever noticed how stupid the pet rock was.
Steven Colbert had a serious interview with OWS spokes people who explained all their rules. Colbert made it a joke for his audience to laugh at. That's what Americans do now they want to laugh at ridiculous behavior without ever realizing that it is beyond dumb. The bottomless pit of stupidity, crimes, and lies goes buried in "political correctness" that prevents any serious criticism for stupidity. The trance is protected better than Fort Knox protects the gold by the trance that makes all Americans angry when I mention it.
The trance may never be broken as the Americans keep being thrown into the street by millions of foreclosures. The trance has them shielding the simple crimes that caused the mortgage meltdown but privileged liars and criminals are all protected by the victims. OWS is there to protest being victimized but they protect the criminals because they refuse to elect officials. They completely believe the criminals will become nice because OWS sat in the park and wrote demands. This is berserk but political correctness prevents any sensible strategy to deal with the crooks who own the government with bribes.
Dont confuse donations with corruption.
I no longer have a general practitioner because he recently decided to form a "concierge practice" and charge each patient $2,400 (or $4,000 for a couple) as an annual retainer, above and beyond the insurance payment and co-pay he'd receive.
He's a wonderful doctor, but now he's only a doctor serving the plotocracy.
But the problem is not just the doctor, the problem is the government that helps create this problem friend.
Welcome to the future. This is what happens when government over regulates and micromanages an industry.
Sounds like buzzwords to me. Provide a few examples of over regulation and micromanagement that impact the cost of health care more than corporate profits. It only makes sense that if your health provider is a for profit company that profits come first over the health and care of the patient. Why? To appease Wall St. Hmmm funny how Wall St keeps coming up as the problem child. Maybe we should protest. Oh, that's right. We are already doing that. OWS.
Profits - and competition - drive efficiency, which lowers the overall cost for everyone. In a free market, consumers would demand both quality and low cost. In almost every other sphere where we have a free and competitive market that is just what consumers get. Somehow we have tried to set up health care in an alternate universe that is micromanaged by the government (state and now federal).
As for examples: Insurance regulations from the government require plans to cover things that almost everyone needs (and hence, should not be in the plan), or that almost no one wants (sex change operation, anyone?). This needlessly drives up costs. It is basically illegal for insurance companies to sell a simple catastrophic coverage plan that lets consumers pay for their own health care, and covers only "major medical" events. THAT would drive down costs. Instead, we have turned insurance companies into some kind of collective buying entity. Stupid. Government. Meddling.
Consumers are not longer the customers when health care providers are paid by insurance companies rather than patients. Make it illegal for insurance companies to pay providers, they must reimburse patients who can then select their own providers! A free market! Insurance owned health care drives up the costs to drive up their profits as well as drives up health insurance and SSI costs for us all. Walk on!
That is GREAT NEWS! So sorry I won't be able to join you this time.
Please be patient, as you know, wall street is not only the primary problem. Our congressmen are brainwashed by the satanic AIPAC and get paid big money to zip their mouth and do as they told. Shame on Washington DC. Keep the movement on and Michael Moore and , I don't know this man personally, but his is wakening the sleeping naive and ignorant middle class to history. Believe it or not, this problem came from the vatican due to the mason religion, it it the main root of the problem. Go to youtube.com and type in search box: vatican secrets exposed by Jordan maxwell. It is used by a small jewish organization out of 90% of them who have been deceived by its own people.
What is the mason religion?
Mason religion is the best. It was over-abused by the Roman and the Pope. Unfortunately, it is interconnected from Washington DC which uses it to benefit the wealth such as AIPAC, the Feds, Lenders with High interest rate. The purpose of this religion is to help the poor get back on their feet and they respect the deserve as a human and their families. It's not because you're in need of financial that you have to be treated as a pig. Do some research, my father was the director of a lodge in his time and done good for humanity. The satanic AIPAC is our problem in this planet.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-this-all-means/
Occupy supporters - wherever they are in the world - shouldn't get caught up in religious conspiracy theories. Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, atheist or agnostic, we can all recognise that we have a social, political and economic system that works only for the one percent and not the huge majority, and we can all come together to try and change that contingent fact.
I feel very lucky to have been born in a country with a National Health Service where treatment is free at the point of need and paid for through general taxation (though in some parts of my country the reactionary neo-liberal government is trying to change this)
Universal healthcare that treats the person, not his or her wallet, is one hallmark of a civilised society. I wish you well in your fight to achieve that in the USA.
Universal healthcare that treats the person, not his or her wallet, is one hallmark of a civilised society.
No a civilized society has a free market approach that is not controlled by the government, communism has never suceeded any where in the world for long with surpressing and killing it people.