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Liberty Square Adopts a Spokes Council

Posted 3 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 10:21 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

This past Friday, the General Assembly of Liberty Square voted to adopt an additional coordinating body called a Spokes Council.

The proposal was put forth by the Structure Working Group, which was born out of numerous discussions in the GA on the need for a more accountable body for operational decisions around the occupation. The main challenges the Spokes Council aims to address are: effective coordination between Operations Groups and Caucuses; making responsible, accountable and holistic budgetary decisions; and the ability for the GA to engage in broader movement discussions, rather than being bogged down with time consuming, uncoordinated funding requests.

spokes council

A spokes council is a directly democratic structure that was inspired by the Quakers and numerous indigenous cultures and used widely in the Women’s Movement, the Anti-Nuclear Movement, and the Global Justice Movement.

The spokes council structure that the GA adopted can be reviewed at http://www.nycga.net/spokes-council/. This structure will evolve as our movement grows and our needs change. Join an Operations Group or Caucus if you would like to participate in the Spokes Council. The Spokes Council will also be open for unaffiliated folks to observe. All are welcome.

The first spoke council assembly will meet this Friday at 7pm, location TBA. This information will be posted on the NYCGA website as soon as we are able to confirm it.

176 Comments

176 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Thunderhands (32) from National City, CA 3 years ago

You need to welcome the homeless or as some call it the underbelly of society. They are the symptom of the situation we find our selves in. Set up a kind of triage unit to re-educate and assimilate them into the protest. Use them as an example of what can happen to the 99% or is happening. Also: Invite people from the Native american community to get involved as every year the homeless and elderly freeze to death on the reservations...MAKE THIS ALL INCUSIVE!!!

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

I don't think anyone has told anyone else they can't join the movement. Actually, many Native peoples are in support of OWS. I don't know if they've actively joined, but they are in support.... because the movement is going after the very means by which they and their peoples were massacred by those in power.

I do think your idea to get the homeless more involved is a good one. We should be helping them get back on their feet, if that is what they desire.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

I agree - though the reason a division is appearing is because many are agent provocateurs sent to make the OWS look like people who are defecating in the streets, etc. Anything to cause division, cause, you know, they realise that they are outnumbered and people are wakening to this fact and where the power really is. Can't have that - oh no! Gotta lie, cheat, and steal in order to discredit the movement or Rush Limbaugh might get dragged out onto the streets by his hearing aid and tickled with feathers until he pukes...

[-] 2 points by drpprmr (14) 3 years ago

Remove those that want to be violent. Distance yourself from them. They will only destroy what you as a group are doing. You have the power of electronic communication to isolate and remove these individuals.

[-] 1 points by drpprmr (14) 3 years ago

You need older individuals to join your fight. You want to sway the public's opinion. Many will see violence as as a threat to their way of life. Sometimes you have to yell loudly to be heard. I think the peaceful demonstration went a lot further in getting your point across then what happened at night. You want the police on your side.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Don't they have a right to be heard? Is not their voice valid? Why would you oppress them?

[-] 2 points by Kathleen (35) 3 years ago

Most of us know that there are crazies in any movement. Most of us also know that in the past and present the government is not beyond paying provocateurs to be violent etc. Could be both.

OWS needs to post it loud and clear that this movement is focused on non violent actions. Post it loud and clear

[-] 1 points by jinney (1) 3 years ago

Jeez,

I'm sorry but calling them "crazies."

You guys are just as bad as the "1%". Just because they're different from you, ill.... You absolutely need to work with them, around them, and make a working group for caretaking them. That's the unglamorous part of community. Come on guys.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

YES!

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 3 years ago

Direct democracy should be the core in any organization, including the economic institutions in society.

Libertarian Socialism/Libertarian Left explained:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJnX96id-xI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHBvQRyOr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu8J_UKKa-c


Pleace read my #OWS forum posts:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/strategies-and-expectations/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/replace-capitalism-with-democracy/


Also, for those who missed it: Noam Chomsky at #Occupy Boston:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbNT62aprM

(Q&A starts at 28 min.)

A "must see" for all involved in the #Occupy Movement.


sff

[-] 1 points by schmuck283 (1) 3 years ago

What are the names of the members of the Spokes Council?

Just so we know who is going to be speaking for us.

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 3 years ago

"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation." This statement is taken from the popular Forum site with a list of "ideas" This statement perfectly addresses why we need to Occupy the White House now! Some of these ideas are good, some miss the point, yet they are a coherent start.. But the Occupation does not need specifics handed down from the so-called "General Council" in order to do what is so specifically clear in the above statement>.. I quote it again: "The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation." The time is today!! Occupy the White House. Tell the President, this is the peoples house. Tell Congress< they all work for us. OWH begins today at 2:00..See you at the Gates!!! Nov 6th Today!!!! Not 6/12/12 You don't postpone momentum for 8 months..Who thought of this UN-characteristic idea anyway? The time is now!! The Capitol Police will not take down your tents or steal your Generators.. The World is watching.."Occupation of the White House begins today. Hundreds arriving now!! Join the peaceful next response which started with OWS, and now Expands to DC!! OWH Today!!

[-] 1 points by sooth (9) 3 years ago

looks too much like a "star chamber". the diagram even suggest it.

google star chamber.

[-] 1 points by cbob05 (2) 3 years ago

Here's something to wrap the protest around! BUILD AMERICAN!, BUY AMERICAN! 4, very powerful words, when taken seriously. Start with a boycot of Walmart, who became the largest American company, selling primarily Chinese products! make them buy and sell, primarily American goods, then we would have more American products and more American jobs!!

[-] 1 points by cbob05 (2) 3 years ago

Here's something to wrap the protest around! BUILD AMERICAN!, BUY AMERICAN! 4, very powerful words, when taken seriously. Start with a boycot of Walmart, who became the largest American company, selling primarily Chinese products! make them buy and sell, primarily American goods, then we would have more American products and more American jobs!!

[-] 1 points by masterandcommander (9) 3 years ago

test

[-] 1 points by PreserveLiberty (7) 3 years ago

There's a shock: your communist society is degrading, so the "leaders" have stratified into a power role that controls the money, major decisions, and speaks for the group? Your movement is a failure. If a couple hundred people in a park - with no major concerns (industry, healthcare, security, diplomacy) - can't make it work, how are you going to govern 350MM people with your despotism?

[-] 1 points by PairofPants (2) 3 years ago

Continue in your futile attempts, ows is going nowhere. You are late to the game. As a Tea Partier, I dumped the Big Banks, corporations, and lame stream media 2 years ago. Join us. It's safe here, but you will have to feed yourself. You are Patriots, you're just not smart enough to know it.

[-] 1 points by PairofPants (2) 3 years ago

Continue in your futile attempts, ows is going nowhere. You are late to the game. As a Tea Partier, I dumped the Big Banks, corporations, and lame stream media 2 years ago. Join us. It's safe here, but you will have to feed yourself. You are Patriots, you're just not smart enough to know it.

[-] 1 points by breaker (6) 3 years ago

Yes, direct democracy for all humans is long overdue.

[-] 1 points by AnonymousMuadDib (26) 3 years ago

Take on the Higher education bubble, student loan bubble, GoldmanSachs, and the federal Reserve all at the same time. Occupy the Art Institutes on Nov 5 in solidarity with south Florida. http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=130962100345051 http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=278790262155872

[-] 1 points by Milton451 (1) 3 years ago

You are NOT the 99%. Open your eyes to the rest of the World. You all got yourselves into the mess you are in by living FAR beyond your means. Grow up and go to WORK! I hear McDonalds is always hiring....it may not be as glamorous as standing outside singing and acting like hippies all day, but it WILL pay your bills. Losers.

[-] 1 points by RisusArcu (2) 3 years ago

Unbelievable that there are Americans protesting the protesters! We are the original protesters! If it was left up to these types we would still be under the thumb of King George, living in a village and burning Witches! Action not words! Truth not Propaganda! Freedom not Servitude!

[-] 1 points by RisusArcu (2) 3 years ago

Unbelievable that there are Americans protesting the protesters! We are the original protesters! If it was left up to these types we would still be under the thumb of King George, living in a village and burning Witches! Action not words! Truth not Propaganda! Freedom not Servitude!

[-] 1 points by Dagaan (1) 3 years ago

Here in Chico, Ca. We are considering using the image of an octopus's arms as 'autonomous affinity' groups - a focus shared by people who have a common focus and more or less a' where all the arms are friends - these affinity groups are kept informed by having a representative in the 'communications circle' which keep track of the Whole but is not an authority. An OCCUPUS! We found it paralizing to constantly try and please an entire group with no shared focus to begin with. This idea of a purely practical group - the spokes-council - is a good idea to more efficiently deal with purely operational problems.

[-] 1 points by KingofScotland (2) 3 years ago

You are all a bunch of clowns. Why should the rich have to give their property to you, for nothing? Why should you get free transprotation, free heatlhcare, and free college education? And you deserve this because....? If you think it's bad for you now, what do you think ending free trade would do? The keys to success are education and hard work -- my in-laws arrived here on a boat from Viet Nam as a family of 10. The family are now lawyers, accountants, financial professionals, and business owners -- that is after starting with literally nothing and a language-barrier. If they can do it, so can you. Stop whining and start working. Capitalism Rules the Universe! The dollar is mightier than the protest banner.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Nothing is ever free - even in other socio-econo-politcal structures. So, even thinking that people want that is ridiculous. Secondly, to state that people want you to give them property for free is such a boldfaced lie it's laughable - please find some other rhetorical spin because that bunch of hooha baloney has been discredited a long time ago. This movement is about making those in the subprime banking mortgage crisis accountable, and coming up with a system where this kind of immorality is not possible. Working hard at making this change for no pay is pretty damn impressive - let's see you do ANYTHING for free if the dollar is that important to you. Your accomplishments will be paralysed if your source of income is removed as long as you worship the dollar and don't put it into perspective. No one says you haven't done a great job in building yourself up from "nothing" - but that's not what's happening here, and it's not why the culprits in the 1% have become rich either.

[-] 1 points by KingofScotland (2) 3 years ago

You are all a bunch of clowns. Why should the rich have to give their property to you, for nothing? Why should you get free transprotation, free heatlhcare, and free college education? And you deserve this because....? If you think it's bad for you now, what do you think ending free trade would do? The keys to success are education and hard work -- my in-laws arrived here on a boat from Viet Nam as a family of 10. The family are now lawyers, accountants, financial professionals, and business owners -- that is after starting with literally nothing and a language-barrier. If they can do it, so can you. Stop whining and start working. Capitalism Rules the Universe! The dollar is mightier than the protest banner.

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 3 years ago

I'm concerned that pros will be planted into the meetings. You know, like they use in performance audiences. I've heard that they are effective at being the initiation of audience reaction.

[-] 1 points by handro (16) 3 years ago

love how my comments get deleted by the censors. Doesn't sound very consensual to me. Sounds like someone is asserting their authority over my voice... So much for real discussion and consensus-building...

[-] 1 points by handro (16) 3 years ago

And when you say direct democracy, you mean anarchy, right?

http://www.anarchy.net/anarchy/anarchy_definition/

I wish OWS would come out of the closet already and acknowledge that the activists, non-organizers, and people generally guiding the movement in its direction are all of the anarchist philosophy. It is very obvious to me, as I used to live with one of the direct action anarchists part of the nationwide network that protests everything from free-trade to the Republican National Convention.... Its obvious that OWS espouses anarchy as a political philosophy...WHy hide it?

[-] 1 points by Darkone (1) 3 years ago

I hope that this Council focus and interest remain the best of this planet and all that occupy it! witch is to take away concentrated control from one sector or group witch intend to take over the wold with their solution to this problem.

http://youtu.be/P4g0HFSRlHo

[-] 1 points by 44mag (28) from Coventry, RI 3 years ago

The possession of anything begins in the mind.

Bruce Lee

[-] 1 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

The corruption has already started. Now OWS becomes another capitalist scam and part of the problem. We don't need a counsel. I never got to vote. Who voted for them? The same idiots that voted for the politicians already in place. We need to shut down the stock market and share the wealth. Then, we begin to vote locally.

[-] 1 points by littlebiggygirl (26) from Hesperia, CA 3 years ago

council aside, does #OWS have the stamina to survive the challenges winter will bring?
http://littlebiggy.org/4660547

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

When you privatise prisons - prisons have to make money to make a profit - making a profit = more prisoners. Privatising prisons is insanity. While I am not against capitalism per say - this is where it becomes a nightmare.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

It's all about money..... oh, and shitting on certain people (like people of color).

[-] 1 points by Teacher (469) 3 years ago

Took long enough. Maybe now the movement can get its act together before we lose hard won momentum.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

The form of democratic principles employed DOES take a long time - but things are moving faster than, say, a health care bill trying to get passed in Congress for the last 70 years...

[-] 1 points by shreepal (9) 3 years ago

bravo, americans bravo! You are making history. In your fight against greedy corporate-government alliance, the whole world is with you. Once again show the path - the path to the suffering humanity this time. Be smart once again to invent the way to defeat the corporate-government duo, the modern evilhead. Long live the human-unity! We love you for your bravery.

[-] 1 points by rufust (22) 3 years ago

The powers of evil desperate to kill Assange and truth.

http://www.swedenversusassange.com/

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

People whine and complain - aw but why should people's dirty laundry be aired when they're just doing their job?" but you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, and the utter vomit-worthy hypocrisy that litters the world of foreign policy NEEDS to be revealed. THE WORLD WANTS REAL CHANGE, NOT THE SEMBLANCE OF CHANGE TO FURTHER CAREERS.

[-] 1 points by weindeb (10) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Right on! For this 84 year old, you (we) of Occupy Wall Street are definitive proof of the validity of the Theory of Evolution. What an exciting movement this is as it tiptoes and stumbles and then marches on, and, yes, evolves. If you get a chance, please check out my website at www.mycountrytis.org. It's part of my attempt to aid and support you in your effort to save our society.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Way to go, 84-year-old!!! And people keep saying the movement is only young, dirty, lazy, rich hippies without jobs!!!

[-] 1 points by weindeb (10) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

SwissMiss, thank you. I am so very appalled at many of the reactions of the responders here, ranging from shallow cynics to adolescent perfectionists, from faux intellectuals clinging to tired absolutes like barnacles on a ship's hull to cop-outs with their almost boastful nihilism. The list could go on and on. Hope can of course sometimes be a foolish state of mind; it can also be an act of courage and stubborn willingness neither to accept what is patently wrong nor destroy those who move to make it otherwise. Indeed one does see many elderly down at Zuccotti park mingling with the young and the middle-aged, like the 87 year old crippled veteran of the Battle of the Bulge who was angry both at the young person who thought that battle pertained to an oversized stomach and at the gross injustices and imperfections eating away at our society.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

You're very welcome. You are so right. Those who oppose things such as this movement are so quick to stereotype and lie to try and bring the movement down. Well, they can try all they want to, but it won't work. They'll have to accept it one day.

[-] 1 points by Thunderhands (32) from National City, CA 3 years ago

What are the 'Crazies" it's an insane world..I would rather be crazy then insane..don't be judgmental!!! One little spark could set this off (most likely from CIA implants) safety in numbers! Besides it's elitist to say we don't want this or that person..The very thing we are protesting against is elitism and all that comes with it...

[-] 1 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 3 years ago

Meh.

I've heard criticism that OWS was "reinventing the wheel", but this takes literal too far!

[-] 1 points by CapitalistPigAmerican (3) 3 years ago

Just what we needed. Square wheels!

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 3 years ago

Well done.

[-] 1 points by DonQuixot (231) 3 years ago

Police corruption is general in the whole planet and stems from financial and political corruption, despite honorable exceptions of honest policemen. This means police chiefs are generally corrupt, if you do not accept corruption you don't get to be chief. They are the banksters police, not the people's police, and therefore enemies of the people in every country, just like under nazis and communists. It is going to be a long legal battle for which we need lots of money and lots of lawyers, as the Supreme Judges in most countries are appointed by the corrupt politicians at the service of big money. As you rightly say, there is no solution but revolution to this corrupt world of neofascism in democratic desguise.

[-] 1 points by engy (3) 3 years ago

Ahhh now we see...OWS is officially being Co-opted by Van Jones and his minions.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

Not co-opted by Van Jones, orchestrated by him and ACORN.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Goodness gracious - picking up the ACORN rhetoric from weeks ago - don't forget the commies under your bed and the liberal media hiding in your sock drawer! They're all plotting to steal your stuffed animals while your attention is diverted by FOX news coverage!!!

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

I dont' watch fox.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Orion (5) from Boston, MA 3 years ago

I am impressed! This is a huge step forward towards more accountable and transparent coordination - I hope Occupy Boston will do the same!

Thanks for your hard work.

[-] 1 points by Kathleen (35) 3 years ago

Keep thinking that OWS needs to do a co-ordinat­ed Network moment to involve those at home watching the OWS protest at home

Remember "I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of chairs and go to the window and open it and stick your head out and yell I AM AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY MORE" http://www­.youtube.c­om/watch?v­=dib2-HBsF­08

A co-ordinat­ed national "I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more"

Comes with a warning. Don't fall out of the window

[-] 1 points by smale (2) 3 years ago

Sounds as boring and joyless as work!

[-] 0 points by mansoor114 (6) from Germantown, MD 3 years ago

Here is how the banker's game works:

1) Get the government to issue some currency (cash -- paper or reserves at the central bank -- reserves are government issued cash central bank deposits). Government issued cash is around 5% of the currency (money) supply. The government issued currency is put into circulation by the government simply spending it.

2) The rest (95%) of the currency is issued by the private banks. Each customer loan is a new bank deposit (i.e., new currency) and increases the currency (money) supply of the economy. Note that this newly created money (currency) is put into circulation by the borrower spending it. Most currency (about 95% America's currency supply) has been borrowed into existence and when bank customer pays the loan back that amount of currency is removed from circulation. The banking system cannot go backwards (fewer net loans) as time moves on because fewer net loans means fewer currency in circulation in the economy.

Accmulation of interest charges on outstanding loans means that the currency supply must constantly increase even if it means giving out lower quality loans. Think of it like a plane flying it must fly at some minimum speed or else the plane (the banking system) will crash (i.e., banking system collapse).

3) The bankers make dam sure that the common public does not understand how the monetary system works meaning that the private banks issue 95% of the currency. This is whole another topic how they do this.

4) The system works until real economic capacity of the economy grows and debts can be serviced and interest charges paid. Most of the time the economy oscillates between boom (growth) and bust (recession) because bust is needed to clear debts and start a new lending cycle.

5) Eventually, one of these cycles goes so deep that currency supply (and demand) falls so low that too many debts become un-serviceable. The recession becomes a depression now.

6) The bankers then have to decide how to "reset" the system. One way to reset the system is to let the depression takes its course. But of course this path is very chaotic because people lose jobs and may become violent. Once most debts are cleared lending can start again and the currency supply is replenished. Wars are a good way to get initial money (currency) into an economy after a depression to get demand going again. This is the great depression scenario.

7) Another way to "reset" the system is to get the government to print too much money and spend and destroy the currency and blame it on the government. This justifies issuance of a totally new currency (note that hyperinflation clears debts) and the lending cycle can start again. This is the Weimar scenario.

8) The banking system (as is) is setup to maximize the power and influence of the global bankers and NOT for the maximum general well being of people. By the way this is a global game. This is the only system around no matter what country you are in. The global banking cartel makes sure that no competing systems are allowed to exist (so they might be copied and global bankers will lose power).

For more details on this stuff please read the following articles in order listed below:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/209386-modern-monetary-system-there-is-another-way

http://aquinums-razor.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-is-deflation-and-depression.html

http://seekingalpha.com/article/210346-should-newly-created-money-be-a-private-or-a-public-asset

http://seekingalpha.com/article/192375-cause-of-today-s-economic-crises-too-much-thrift

http://seekingalpha.com/article/160269-a-radical-solution-for-america-s-insolvent-financial-system

http://seekingalpha.com/article/146658-great-banking-confusion-is-there-a-better-way

mansoor h. khan gaithersburg, md

[-] 1 points by cruxcatalyst (2) from Adelaide, SA 3 years ago

Please check out the work of Positive Money in London on this issue: www.positivemoney.org.uk - they are building momentum with their effective campaign to get people (including politicians) to understand where money comes from.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

Cool the protestors have formed a representative form of voting on issues. Kind of like what we already have in our form of government. Glad the anarchists see the need for a formal government.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

@anonymous2020 - thanks for the fact check, although the fact I was pointing out is that his artwork was used by the FBI, AFTER the 9/11 attacks, to identify possible cash flow connections of Al-Qaeda. My MAIN point though is that any broad network that hopes to change society is never going to be able to be summed up in some neat and clean graphic. It's going to look messy. That doesn't mean a spokes council can't work, but a "leaderless", anarchic, grass roots movement cannot be easily formatted.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

Why can't being against institutionalized greed and corruption be something people are taught to do, instead of having to join something and pay money into it? I just read the list of "challenges" the GA posted and I'm sure these are the same challenges any organization faces.

So why not abandon the ide of an organization, and instead make it like the "green" movement. For an individual or organization to go "green", they adopt a new philosophy and way of life. They may donate to or join groups, but it's not a requirement. To go "OWS", one would adopt a new philosophy and way of life as regards working, compensation, spending and investing.

I'd love to see someone smarter and more enlightened than me come up with these steps so that the entire world could "go green" as it were, go honest with money and how it operates in society.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

Wow, the picture of the wheel is gone. Have you ever seen the artwork of Mark Lombardi? He drew large schematics that looked like spiderwebs, but they were actually based on real-life connections between bankers, mobsters, spies, rebel armies, arms dealers, corporations and governments. He was investigated shortly after 9-11 by the FBI because one of his artworks done PRIOR to 9-11 explained the cash flow of Al-Qaeda. He eventually committed suicide.

My point is that any symbo, representing the "spokes" of the network should look more like a plate of spaghetti and less like a wheel.

[-] 1 points by anonymous2020 (1) 3 years ago

you should check your facts. Mark Lombardi died March 22, 2000, which was more than a year before the 9/11 attacks.

[-] 0 points by Rob (881) 3 years ago

Looks a lot like a representative form of government.hmmmm, now where have I seen that before?

[-] 2 points by Australiano (5) from Burleigh Waters, QLD 3 years ago

But there is a difference, its not corrupted and its monitored by the people.

[-] -2 points by Rob (881) 3 years ago

you keep thinking that. let me know when the unicorns ride the rainbow down tot he pot of gold too.

[-] 1 points by aaronb (1) 3 years ago

Read the document. This proposal was debated by anyone who wanted to show up, for two weeks worth of General Assemblies and other meetings. The SpokesCouncil model goes to enormous lengths to preserve not only transparency and direct representation, but also enforces a radically fluid representative structure. Every 'Spoke' serves only momentarily, and can be recalled, immediately, at any time, by the consensus of their working group. There is no decision or conversation that goes on between a group of "representatives" that is not conducted out in the open, with the direct participation of every single person that is represented.

It's counterproductive to suggest that this is at all akin to the existing representative structure of our republic. Is it perfect? Certainly not. But the General Assembly retains the inalienable right to modify this structure. You don't have to trust the structure. If you find a flaw in it, please, engage the GA, and fix that flaw. I promise your participation will be appreciated.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

What you just described is not direct democracy.

[-] 1 points by Adam (116) 3 years ago

DOWN WITH THE COUNCIL!!!!!! Down with wall street. No more leaders. No more corruption.

[-] 0 points by iewilson0307 (5) from Dunn, NC 3 years ago

o so yall are going to make yalls on government system now ? haha this should be good someone is always become in charge and then then yall will start all over again so good luck

[-] 1 points by mehcanic62 (3) 3 years ago

not if our new government is controlled by majority vote and no money is spent without authorization of a majority vote. Also it's pretty aparent who is a serious contributer to the movement or not or if you are serious in your comment let me translate: Yall ain't rustlin no unlearnedid folk hoss. lol and if your going on about weed, cigarettes and general hippie talk nobody will take that comment seriously. This isn't the 40's and if you've ever seen a comedian you know better.

[-] 1 points by CapitalismTheONLYWay (2) 3 years ago

Haha you are so educated that you sink down to the level of grade school mockery?!? bahaha the people of the occupy "movement" need to stop acting like children, GROW up, and get out there and work. Plus hippie talk wasn't in the 40s "Genius" it was in the 60s and 70s!

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Cool - maybe you can hire them - OHHHH - not hiring right now, huh? Gonna wait to hire until the black man is out of office to make it look like your party is the magnanimous bunch of generous ones, eh? Let's see, why aren't there jobs - oh yes! It's because of predatory lending practices (according to the FBI) and then the bailout went to Wallstreet/Banks and went back into circulation to help out the economy and then - OHHHHH - it DIDN'T, did it? It went straight into the pockets of CEOs as non-taxable bonuses because, since the business community (and I use that term lightly since firms like Goldman-Sachs don't actually produce anything, they create hedge funds and gamble with your money) feels like their man isn't sitting in the White House so they can sit on their hiring funds like a bunch of greedy Corporate Hoarders holding money they gained immorally (if not illegaly - don't worry, that's gonna change) and hold the country for ransom as it experiences a 16% unemployments rate. THAT's why these people are protesting instead of "getting out there and working." WHO. THE. HELL. DO. YOU. THINK. YOU. ARE. FOOLING.?

[-] 1 points by CapitalismTheONLYWay (2) 3 years ago

First off, The unemployment rate is at 9%... check the facts! Secondly yes people go through rough times but you can not blame someone else for your rough times in life. All you do is get back up and try to find a job like the rest of US instead of acting like a bunch of hooligans!

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

The real US unemployment rate is 16 percent if persons who have dropped out of the labor pool and those working less than they would like are counted, a Federal Reserve official said Wednesday. "If one considers the people who would like a job but have stopped looking -- so-called discouraged workers -- and those who are working fewer hours than they want, the unemployment rate would move from the official 9.4 percent to 16 percent, said Atlanta Fed chief Dennis Lockhart.

Oh, so being robbed without demanding justice is a fact of life - we just need to "suck it up" admit to "losing" to crooks - I have a job Mr. Parrot. My concern is for those who don't because I actually give a damn about my country and someone other than myself. These rough times could have been avoided - CAN be avoided. Yet instead spending is rampant on wars and held hostage in the coffers of those throwing a little hissy fit because all is not the way they want it in the White House. When something is wrong people protest - THAT's a fact of life. The only hooligans are the ones who misappropriate money for political gain.

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 3 years ago

There Is a War Going On For Your Mind


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5yA3RwzOk

[-] 1 points by iewilson0307 (5) from Dunn, NC 3 years ago

okay so the congress and the senate dont vote for anything? they just sit there? okay maybe you need to go back to school and learn something

[-] 0 points by omniscientfool (84) 3 years ago

Sounds a lot like a major change to me, away from a leaderless democracy and towards exactly what we have been fighting against.

[-] 1 points by anonbloom (55) 3 years ago

no you don't get it. spokescouncils are meant to decentralize and horizontalize collective decision making. They are the primary form of assembly that anarchists and other anti-authoritarians promote because they discourage informal hierarchy than can develop within general assemblies while also speeding up collective process. The "spokes" are not representatives of any sort. They are 100% accountable to the group they come from and cannot make any decisions without consensus from the group.

[-] 0 points by hahaha (-41) 3 years ago

jingle fingers

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[-] 1 points by mehcanic62 (3) 3 years ago

Is this a serious site or just another manufactured one to try and paint the world as a bunch of stupid hippies? I smoke as much weed as anyone and even I know bullshit when I see it. WHO POSTS THIS CRAP?

[-] -2 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

As soon as I saw all those celebrities and politicians like Pelosi and Obama support this, I knew this damn thing had been co-opted. A king has never allowed the serfs to revolt unless the Empire had already paid for it as a large punching bag to let off some steam. You can burn all the trash, break all the windows, spray graffiti and pretend you're 'at war' with the cops all (and most of us know that tried and done repetitious crap that does nothing but minor inconveniences. Windows can be replaced. Paint is cheap. And cops are cheaper.) Revolution is just sexy. May 68 sexy. Paris Commune sexy. Seattle 99 sexy. But what happened? NOTHING. What's happpening now? More co-opted same tactics NOTHING. And that "Town Shut Down" which decided to shut itself down was a nice example of a simulated virtual revolution! People, read your history. Bankers aren't going to come down and negotiate. Politicians will pretend to negotiate and will throw you some shiny trinkets and that many will accept as 'systematic change' because the salesman are good at tickling you ears. That's the best you're going to get and that's exactly where I see this bought-and-paid-for-exercise-in-letting-out-some-steam exercise going. Revolutions cost blood. If you're not donating, you're not doing shit.

[-] 2 points by firewalldemocracy (8) 3 years ago

What do you suggest?

[-] 0 points by TheREAL99 (120) 3 years ago

Ok - You don't like Politburo.

Then I suggest the "Spokes Council" name be changed to "Spokes Missing Council". This is much more descriptive of its functionality.

[-] 0 points by TheREAL99 (120) 3 years ago

I suggest the "Spokes Council" be changed to Politburo. This is much more descriptive of its function than some bicycle part name.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

I'm sorry, but many revolutions that cost blood also did nothing. Replaced one set of tyrants for another. Historically. Unless you are actually there transcribing what is going on behind closed doors you're just another conspiracy nut trying to undermine what is happening. And I wouldn't say May 68 did nothing either. In fact, it seems just like naysaying for it's own sake, here. Glad you have strong beliefs - sorry you feel you have to be so cynical about something which has the very real chance of creating change. But you're just another "there's a black guy in the White House! Get yer guns!" finger pointer - the blame is always only where you think it is.

[-] 1 points by WarmItUp (301) 3 years ago

Can yo ulink to where pelosi and obama support this? I haven't seen that yet. I was pretty certain this was a non-political movement against corporate greed, not a left verse right thing.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Um.... just because someone supports a movement, it doesn't mean it's been co-opted. If white people support a civil rights movement for people of color, does that mean the white people have co-opted it?

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Goodness gracious, the conspiracy paranoids are out in number today! The OWS has said they'll accept the support of the left and unions as long as they don't expect OWS to support their causes. Interesting that the right hasn't made similar approaches. Might smack too much of real cooperation instead of endless NO! in congress to get the "evil anti-business" black man out of office.

[-] 1 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

I disagree. The people who started OWS have successfully changed the national debate from the Tea Party's "let's cut social programs so we don't have to tax the ultra-rich criminals who caused the deficit and the meltdown" to "why are the 1% taking everything and taking it via opaque, corrupt, illegal methods?". It's an amazing accomplishment, similar to "silent spring" when people started to realize we were poisoning the planet and therefor ourselves.

[-] 2 points by engy (3) 3 years ago

You realize now that public hysteria surrounding "Silent Spring" which has been shown now as a hoax, resulted in the global ban of chemicals that if allowed would have prevented millions of deaths caused by insect borne deseases.Let's not compare OWS to a murderous hoax!!

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

You echoed my post above. They will not believe you. Besides, this is all about feeling good about yourself, not about taking positive action for change. The dead babies are over in Africa, where we can romanticize them into the narcissistic narrative that drives modern liberalism.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

40,000 people die every year in the US of A due to a lack of accessible health care,. the dying babies are not only over seas.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Why do you believe things that are prima facie absurd? Learn to cultivate critical thinking when someone hands you an outrageous number like that.

[-] 0 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 3 years ago

Don't you know that 40k number was shown to be totally bogus? That's not true at all. That was easily discredited right after the press and Democrats started saying it.

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 3 years ago

By whom? That study was done by the Department of Medicine at Cambridge Health Alliance, affiliated with Harvard Medical School and was published in a peer-reviewed journal.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

no I don't "know". do you have any links to actual info. beyond I heard in on AM hate radio??

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Instead of appealing to experts, let's just start with some basics. A quick google search shows there are about 300million people. So you are saying that well over 1 in 1000 people in the US die due to lack of accessible care. They just flat out die. Does that seem credible to you? Do you think you would notice such a thing?

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

Math is not a guessing game. 300,000,000/40,000=7500 :. one in seven thousand and five hundred.

Remember, we live in a class divided society,. and those suffering the worst poverty are at the very bottom end of the 99%,. unless you are in a similar economic situation it is unlikely you live near of know there people so no it is not likely you would notice,. unless you actually cared about such issues. There are around 2,500,000 deaths per year so no the number seems to be with in the realm of reason.

Why are you arguing this any way,. 10 deaths by lack of accessible health care are too many as they are all avoidable,. universal healthcare is cheaper than the corporate profit motivated insurance scheme used today, and avoids these 40,000 deaths each year.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

I lost a zero in my typing, it is of order 1 in 10,0000 as you said. You find that credible, I do not. Every statistic I have ever seen like this fails under scrutiny; it is just agitprop put out by an agenda-driven organization. The clustering effect that you mention (assuming it hits lower incomes harder) only drives the number into less credible realms. 1 in 1000, let's say. Absurd. Extraordinary claims required extraordinary proof. These things are never proven; they are stated and repeated by a supine, clueless media until they become true by repetition. 1 in 4 women have been raped, yadda yadda yadda.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

a simple google search "death from lack of health insurance" = http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

actually puts the number higher by 5000 at 45000 and was done in 2009 so likely even higher today,.

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Never argue facts with a liberal (but you already knew that, and neither of us can help ourselves)

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

I'm sure the flat-earth society could use some new members

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Hehehehehehehe!!!!!

[-] 0 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Why do you hate science?

[-] 0 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

There are so many hoaxes we are groomed and coalesced to be spoon fed I can't trust anything that is being pimped to the masses anymore because most likely it is to do some harm.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 3 years ago

"airplaneradio" is Alex Jones,. or dropped acid one night and watched all his paranoia flicks,. resulting in what you see here,. cynicism of everything and nothing at all constructive to add.

[-] 1 points by TheoSocrates (51) 3 years ago

Maybe you're right airplaneradio - anything that catches on with the masses must be a co-opted manipulation. You should be the first to let go of this whole 'breathing oxygen' thing... i knew it was bullshit right from the start... oh and science? Don't even let me get started on the fallacy of a helio-centric world... Galileo and others like him - greatest hoax on humanity ever. I can't believe they got away with it...

I'm with you airplaneradio - expecting the worst is always the best. Witches should be burned - and the insanity of 'new ideas' should be shut down immediately. I say attack the new - the old ways are ideal. I'm with you!

[-] 3 points by weindeb (10) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Thanks for putting this dyspeptic, ranting airplaneradio down where he belongs, which is down, even though your irony is very gentle, indeed. He is basically a cynical, wise-ass, bloviating distraction, maybe even a plant. I suspect there are many such, alas, to be expected with a movement like this.

[-] 0 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

Ah yes, facetiousness. That works.

[-] 2 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Yes, it does. I think you got it, even if you don't agree with TheoSocrates's satirical explanation of your position.

[-] 1 points by BizEducatedSociallyConscious (68) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Yes, I am happy OWS has ignited this debate. Whether I agree with all points or not. And I hope many of the Tea Party constructively join in this conversation and help make the needed changes needed! I am an independent and see things on both sides, but feel this is a more fair, balanced, honest, genuine movement.

[-] 1 points by AllIWantedWasAPepsi (3) 3 years ago

Nicely put, BESC.

[-] 1 points by bigovaries (5) 3 years ago

yup!

[-] -1 points by FreeMarkets (272) 3 years ago

Silent Spring was factually incorrect. It caused a wave of anti-science public policy that resulted in the US pulling support from malaria treatment in Africa (after we had already wiped it out here in the US, of course) - causing the deaths of millions of African children. Nothing fails like liberalism.

[-] -1 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

You really REALLY need to put the Kool-Aid down and step away from it. No, what the OWS has done has provided an outlet for the people who are down and out on the situation at hand...and that's all. And this all they will do. Who has marched onto the White House? Who has collected all the names of every player and decided to run them out of town? The Silent Spring was also co-opted. You think all those leaders were put there by the people? They were put there by US! Why do you think we have been in the Middle East so long? We have been sucking it dry and fermenting rebellion so we can change it to an area that bows down the US-European power structure. They did this to Latin America. They did this Africa. You think the Tea Party is the enemy? They are in just as much shit as you are right now. They are playing everyone like a chess game and nobody has bothered to look up to see who the players are! Yes, we are part of a corrupt and tyranical terroristic Empire who cares nothing for its worker bees! Republicans and Democrats are two heads of the same beast and they use divided drones like us to their bidding. The entire world is collapsing and the only people with the net are the super-rich. Do you have any idea what is going to occur when everything goes to hell? We are going to be screwed. What has OWS proposed we do about this? This is a serious problem and they are too busy writing CrimethINC language to make you feel like a soldier. It's just angry distraction. You think all these rich people and politicians support the group because they want them to win? Fuck no. They don't care about you. This is an Empire that only cares about you doing its lowly work and then dying when you are of no use. If you want a revolution, you have to dismantle everything. You'd have to burn the banks. Burn the White House. Be ready to eliminate those who are in the schemes, even when they have a military that could protect them. No revolution came about with sitting down in drum circles and twinkles about spending. Dismantle now or remain in the "revolutionary" spectacle. Trust me, we will see what will become of this in reality. They might offer some pretty nice dog food that the people might go 'gaga' over and confuse for change.

[-] 3 points by VTSupportsYou (108) 3 years ago

It seems to me - based off your comments - that you are in fact upset with the current system. I ask you this; What do you feel is a better use of your limited life span: Sitting in your armchair flaming the people who are trying to make things better, or getting into the street and offering them constructive solutions that might move the world forward into a better way?

Be something more than you are now or be a wasted shell. Your choice. It matters little to those trying to move things forward.

[-] 1 points by BizEducatedSociallyConscious (68) from New York, NY 3 years ago

thank you for saying things that is so laborious to say and try to make negative people see things different. i would hope there are curious people coming on here to peek and learn and hopefully get involved. this is one of the GREATEST opportunities for the average person to collectively & positively CHANGE this messed up system. For them, read, learn, get involved.

For those on the fence and maybe negative naysayers: I still have hope for some of them so try to get them to see things differently. Maybe that's their way to test if this is legit. It is, get involved, your views, even if they may seem very different WILL matter and CAN shape this.

For those who are here simply to sabotage, welcome, I guess that is a part of this genuine, open, democratic process. I have faith thinking people will decide rightly and your efforts will not work. Interesting to see how they think and the steps they will take.

this WILL work, this IS real. I have been to the rallies and seen very normal, average people, all colors, all ages, all walks of life. People who are passionate. their eyes with hope, anger, determination. it is beautiful, it is ALREADY making a POSITIVE difference. You negative nancies can complain all you want and try to sabatoge...you CANT stop this, you WONT stop this, and at the end of the day, YOUR country and YOUR future will be better as a result...no matter what are your politics, no matter what is your religion...and yes, no matter your INCOME...i believe even the so-called 1% will benefit from positive changes and reforms to our broken system. In my opinion, many are simply addicted parasites and will feed off our economy regardless of whether they bleed the host dry. (wow, what an analogy).

[-] 1 points by weindeb (10) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

VTSupportsYou, I've written the following for the home page of my website - www.mycountrytis.org - in support of OWS: "Cynicism is an attitude embraced by cowards of shallow disposition seeking a lazy way out of responsibility and ethical and possible tiresome involvement with others. You who camp out and march and protest, you are otherwise and perhaps the beginning of our last great hope against the greedy and the powerful, the barbarians who have crashed the gate and are destroying our society in the name of...themselves."

[-] 1 points by VTSupportsYou (108) 3 years ago

I like the site weindeb. A little hard on the eyes but good content. I especially like the Manissa McCleave Maharawal quote.

[-] -1 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

I think I realize from the history I've studied that anyone who attempted to blow the whistle and try to create an awareness of puppeteers end up dead. My criticism isn't merely that OWS isn't doing anything, but moreso, is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. The change you want will come. The desire for a systematic change will indeed come to you. But it will come from those who are running it. The Empire needed an Arab Spring. A crashing system. The dying global economy. A tense situation. The players are in position. It's time for the show. Obama really wasn't lying. CHANGE is about to come and it will sound sweet like candy but will be rotten from the core. If I didn't think the OWS was co-opted I would be there (I'm currently no where near such protests) but there is an agenda. And it fits very nicely with the future that is in store,

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

It's so sad that so many are mesmerized by the opiate of the bread-and-circuses of the masses and the horse-and-pony show of dualist partisan politics. So ashamed there are so many rednecks in this country who want to blame Obama for everything and can't stop to have a real conversation because they're so busy being useful idiots whilst accusing others of the same thing.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

"I think I realize from the history I've studied that anyone who attempted to blow the whistle and try to create an awareness of puppeteers end up dead." That is so untrue.

[-] 1 points by VTSupportsYou (108) 3 years ago

So the question remains. What are you doing? What will you say to your children, and your grandchildren, and your great grandchildren when this New World Order you speak of is in control? Will you tell them that you sat at your computer, spouting curses and let it happen or will you say you knew those OWS folks were merely puppets so you got out there enlightened them suggested a different path, and worked with them to derail the Illuminati's plot?

[-] 1 points by AmericanSpirit (1) 3 years ago

Your energy might be better spent on helping out. You're spinning your wheels and flaming people.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

agreed

[-] 3 points by firewalldemocracy (8) 3 years ago

This is ridiculous provocateur ranting. Thousands of people are putting their bodies out in the streets night after night. You want to burn it all down? You are either too angry to take seriously or a troll. This will take time, cool heads, and peaceful protests. What happened all day yesterday in Oakland, at the ports and downtown, was beautiful. Whatever happened later, with the fire, etc., I don't know--but I hope it wasn't just angry kids in helmets running to the front lines to fight (ie, throw something at and run like hell) the cops. That is not a winning strategy for the 99%. Your message is totally confused: "do you have any idea what is going to occur when everything goes to hell" and then, a minute later, "burn the banks," "burn the White House." Homey, that is everything going to hell. Wise up or go hit a punching bag yourself. We don't need this shit.

[-] 1 points by bigovaries (5) 3 years ago

nice

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by BizEducatedSociallyConscious (68) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Me too :) oh, hi SwissMiss...have seen your name here before :)

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

=) Hi!

[-] 1 points by bigovaries (5) 3 years ago

me 3

[-] 1 points by jeffyarboro (6) 3 years ago

Thank you! I'm tired of these black bloc agent provocateurs. Of course this guy is currently nowhere near such protests. I'm as cynical as anyone but to follow this line of thinking just plays into the hands of our opponents. If we had any real examples of "a revolution that actually did something" we probably wouldn't be where we are now. No violent revolution in history has yet achieved what we hope to. True liberation is still emergent praxis.

[-] 1 points by weindeb (10) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

And he sure as hell is verbally diarrheal, to put it clinically.

[-] 0 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

OWS is your punching bag. And nothing is going to happen. Read up on revolutions that actually did something. They stormed prisons to set them free. They beheaded kings. Those bankers are laughing at you. Obama is laughing at you. The Republicans are laughing at you. This is good fun. A sports game. They will dangle a carrot soon though and you'll bite because you actually like the system. You just want more of the pie. If you know your history, they don't give pie out let alone let you see the recipe. I'm not a provacateur. I'm on the sidelines watching and observing all of this and keeping tabs on all the news and philosophies and intricate webs going on in this movement. I know no one will do such system crashing things at all outside of the typical juvenile normal insurrection behavior. People being together, that's beautiful. But what do you mean you are putting your bodies out on the line? Doing what? Changing what? Being angry? Shaking your fist at the windows at wall street? Unless the people are very aware of how powerful and ubiquitous the powers that be are, they'll be cannon fodder.

[-] 3 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Actually, the women's suffrage movement achieved its goals very non-violently.... although the women who fought for the right to vote were treated with violence from the police, from servicemen, from legislators, and from many others in society. You need to read up more on your revolutions and movements.

[-] 0 points by lisaizonline (13) 3 years ago

I would say we still have a ways to go with the women's rights movement. It has been nonviolent so far, sure. I am a successful professional and I am happy where I am, but I see the inequality all the time. Men are still favored. I just shake my head. What I would like to see is a nonviolent children's rights movement. When will they have rights, huh?

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Yes, we do still have a ways to go. I was speaking specifically about the right to vote. Believe me, I know we have a ways to go.... as someone who plays sports with both men and women and coed. Many of my female teammates and I have been treated very disgustingly by males who we play with and against, just because we are female. It doesn't matter if we're just as good or better than the males are. We often get treated like shit, because many males can't handle the fact that females also love to play sports.

I know that the pay scale still is an issue. Why do guys, with the same education and experience and skills, still get paid more than women do for doing the same jobs?

Also, do you notice how our culture uses female words when putting someone down and calling them weak? I'm so sick and tired of the sexist mentality.

[-] 0 points by lisaizonline (13) 3 years ago

Yes, it is disgusting. In my line of work, men are a minority (nursing), and even the female supervisors give the males so many more breaks just because they are rare or something? They can do no wrong.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

Its' ridiculous..... the double standard that women have had to live by for so long.

[-] 1 points by quercus (93) 3 years ago

as you have said: 'I'm on the sidelines watching and observing' like some general, 'decider', or some such high up on the hierarchy of arrogance, making pronoucements and nobody fallowing. all that anger, dressed up and no place to go, pissing in the wind, hollering in the dark. if they had only listened to you, on the sidelines, watching and observing.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Protesting does exactly what it's supposed to - it gives vital publicity to issues kept neatly buried by those paranoid they will get caught for their immoral and destructive behaviour. If you think protesting is all that's happening here then for all your "keeping up" with things you surely aren't looking hard enough.

[-] 1 points by GetAngry (35) from Warren, MI 3 years ago

Then what do you propose be done? A violent movement that will justify violent possibly military retaliation in return?

[-] 0 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 3 years ago

Just what they want.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Gosh - I think the 650,000 people that I just read about that moved their money to Credit Unions which has been blamed/credited mostly to the OWS movement is a pretty significant action to have inspired.

[-] 1 points by MadProfit (312) 3 years ago

Gosh, for a movement that is doing nothing and full of a bunch of hippies you sure do seem to want to stomp it out - true power is confident. True power knows what it can do and doesn't have to stomp on the "poor confused hippies". The more you try and discredit it as a bunch of clueless morons instead of giving calm rational reasons why OWS objectives are unreachable, the more you actually credit OWS as a legitimate power. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

"Who has collected all the names of every player and decided to run them out of town?" That actually is being worked on.

[-] 1 points by handro (16) 3 years ago

yes, otherwise known as violent revolution and overthrow for the government. I think you just become the .1% as 99.9% of the OWS folks are NOT interested in that whatsoever....

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

wow, you're more cynical than I am! and I never said "the Tea Party was the enemy". I said they called for cuts to social programs as opposed to taxing billionaires. Their solution to the deficit was to cut programs that everybody's been paying into for years, instead of taxing the illegal profits of a bunch of crooks. Choose your poison.

[-] 1 points by airplaneradio (50) 3 years ago

I don't vote. The game is very very rigged. Even an anarchist would say "If voting could change anything, it would be illegal."

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

I didn't mean vote, I meant decide in your heart and mind where you stand.

[-] 0 points by Bender (98) from Meriden, CT 3 years ago

revolutions cost blood. true, but mostly revolutions cost love. try donating some of that. it'll probably get you much farther than violent dissent.

[-] 0 points by raines (699) 3 years ago

They haven't co-opted it,......it's their baby.

[-] -2 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

leaderless, eh? "being bogged down with time consuming, uncoordinated funding requests..." who's in that dense black part in the middle of the wheel? the part that gets all the donations that go into the corrupt ponzi-scheme casino known as "amalgamated bank"...

[-] 0 points by mehcanic62 (3) 3 years ago

I agree with velveeta this is just corruption waiting to happen, all donations should be saved untill there is a vote of what to spend it on. hot dogs and tents for people standing in the streets is not what we need thats spending more than were making we need to buy a TV segment to get the mesage out to more and more people and put together a documentary on how little say we have on the laws that bind us and the people who represent us.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 3 years ago

People need to eat to survive.

[-] 1 points by kristianb21 (33) 3 years ago

TV? Do you know who owns the TV networks, why bother to even attempt to put money in their hands. Besides if they wouldn't even accept a R.Paul. commercial what makes you think they would, even come close to letting us in the door to negotiate a price. Their finance is well organized: http://finance.nycga.net/files/2011/11/10-28-financial-reportback2.pdf

[-] 0 points by lisaizonline (13) 3 years ago

I agree with Mechanic. The protesters needing tents and pizza - those are 1st world problems. Quit making yourselves homeless...you are not. Spend the money on publicity. And quit making yourselves famous by looking like losers on livestream. Remember, "the whole world is watching".