#N17 Global Day Of Action!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 16, 2011, 4:40 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Sixty days into the struggle #OccupyWallStreet was violently evicted by the NYPD, who leveled our homes at Liberty Square to the ground. Our movement, however, is stronger than it has ever been. In these sixty days we have brought about a massive awakening, perhaps the largest one in the country since the Civil Rights Movement fifty years ago, and certainly the first global one in modern history. People around the world, from Spain to Australia, from Chile to the U.S. have opened their eyes together to the decadence and injustice of the common system that exploits us. This is what we mean when we say with the deepest significance: you cannot stop an idea whose time has come.
The occupation that began on the 17th of September in Zuccotti Park has proven that we still have a chance, as human beings, to unite and reform these corrupt structures, to cleanse our Government and restore our dignity. We will allow no rest and tranquility in our world until we finally achieve what we are dreaming of in our hearts. We will not stop until justice is restored, until democracy is recovered from behind the veil of political discourse, until the 99% are once again made rightful sovereign of their future, until the shadow of Wall Street is stripped of its darkness and its power. We will not stop moving forward until bankers and governments are held accountable for their crimes, until they respect every basic human right they trample on.
We will no longer tolerate the oppression of the 1% who do not want to see a creative movement, based on inclusiveness and tolerance, triumph over a system deeply rooted in social inequality. This is why we're fighting back tomorrow during #N17. We will shut down Wall Street and we will #occupy all of New York City with our bodies, voices and ideas.
And on this same day the message will resonate around the world! For International Student Day, our brothers and sisters in Spain will embark on a strike in education as a reaction to the capitalist logic that denies free education, and there will be rallies and occupations in Germany, Belgium, Italy, Egypt, Indonesia, Poland, Nigeria and Bulgaria. This is a call to participate in our movement as one: join your local protest, organize one in solidarity with #OccupyWallStreet and all evicted squares. Don't stay home, play your part, act!
The jarring importance of this moment cannot be overlooked: as civil society collapses, destroying our livelihoods and our public services, as we are enslaved by debt and forced out of our homes, as our folklore is mined by market predators, as we stand by and watch our global environment disintegrate to the point of threatening the extinction of our species, we are compelled to act. Tomorrow, November 17th we will remind the 1% and their representative Michael Bloomberg that you cannot stop an idea whose time has come!
For everyone in New York meet us at 7:00 AM for breakfast in Liberty Sq., lunch will be #occupy the Subways at 3:00 PM and dinner will be served after taking Foley Square with our creative and peaceful spirit. Tomorrow we will trade ideas, not stocks!
Click here for the complete program.
Tomorrows disruptions will cost the city of NY millions and with more large scale protests more millions will have to be spent. This will lead to NYC losing millions each week due to protests. These protests are going to make an impact. We the 99% have lost or are about to lose everything, get off of your lazy butts and join us. Do not complain about us join us.
Be strong. The whole world will be watching.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead.
I support the Occupy movement but I think that its historical consciousness has to grow. This will only make the movement stronger and clarify its aims. That means outgrowing some youthful perspectives, along with New York-centric or US-centric thinking.
In terms of the US, this has the potential to become as big as the Civil Rights or Anti-War movement, or the labor movements of the 1930s, but there are quite potentially many years of struggle and there are victories yet to be had before this movement can match those times. Past US struggles will be a constant source of strength if their experiences are disseminated. Perhaps there needs to be a standing History or Education working group?
But this isn't the first global movement in modern history. We can go back to the 1960s anti-war, anti-colonial, and anti-capitalist struggles, or much earlier, to the 20th c. world wars. Both fascism and socialism had international aspects ... and occupy is much closer to socialism or anarchism (in the good senses of these terms) than fascism.
Finally, the US movement only got started this year because of a succession of struggles by people lower on the global hierarchy, in the Middle East, in deficit areas of Europe, and now finally in the US. So the US / NYC movement sits on top of blood sweat and tears in many countries. This should be constantly acknowledged to understand the international sources of popular power --- from the bottom up.
But the significance of the US and NYC movement can't be underestimated. The US is the greatest empire in world history. Wall Street has brought much pain and suffering to the peoples of the world. When its foundations shake, it emboldens the world to resist. When US / NYC fights back, it opens space for many many people in the world to fight back.
I hope Nov .17 2011 is remembered forever as a hellish day for the enemies of Occupy!
In order to gain support of the majority of Americans and myself it seems to me the message of OWS needs to place much more emphasis that Wall Street and big banks are a symptom of a corrupt government. Government establishes the rules in which Wall Street and big banks operate. I like to think of it this way: when I get sick with a stomach ache I don't attack my stomach but look to solve the cause of the problem. The problem is American politicals are no longer for the people by the people. We are governed by elitists who serve their own cause. Both political parties must share the blame equally.
GOYIM to the slaughter-ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatat ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatat ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatat ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatat ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatat
The movement will not get anywhere unless it becomes more constructive and gets more support. Global now is a step too quick considering the majority here in the U.S.A. do not seem to understand the point the 99 are making if they themselves are not complaining. To camp out, sit in, or occupy anywhere with out a real purpose and for show as it seems is getting attention but fumbling the cause or causes. Marching on our Government would have more effect than on banks and other financial structures, boycotting those banks and financial supports of those infrastructures has more of an effect with result but needs to get out to all the people. Government controls cost of living laws and standards, businesses and commodities control the fat guys profit. If we all stopped spending and bought the bare necessities think of the impact that would have. If Occupy marched on each capital state house in each state imagine the impact that has. The messages would be clear and progress may result.
What is very important to keep in mind about this whole movement is that it should focus more on the root of the problem...yes, the monetary system is a shit show....yes our economy is straggling on its last leg....but what i'm most concerned about in this country and all over the world is the apathy towards the true human condition of love and harmony....we are beings of nature, we're not meant to fight, we're meant to coexist --- its these values of love for one another and respect for another human being that has been lost and traded to the dollar....once our true human values are recalled and people are woken up to that reality, can any true change be made and that change starts with yourself....wake up to the infinite ways we can be prospering when we turn to acceptance and love - instead of separation and hatrid
Those babies born in the year 2011 will see the fruit of OWS in their life time. We are the ones who planted the seed. We may not see the fruit but they will.
Criticism here is form of
Psychological Warfare
attempting to demoralize participants
It's not going to work
: )
That's why I ask people for evidence on their claims.
With Naomi Klein I believe this struggle is the most important thing in the world, but also realize it depends on and nourishes other struggles. We must break the power of the corporations who are leveling mountains to feed their machines, cutting school budgets to fund their tax breaks, drowning our democracy with the profits they take from our labor.
The movements zucnei mentions are all inspirations for this struggle--and many people who were involved in them have been to Liberty Square: gay rights activists, old 68ers, heroes of the Arab Spring. It is one struggle: a struggle for a society that puts the basic needs and rights of all over the profit of the few.
I am reminded of a quote of the great British socialist William Morris: "I pondered all these things, and how men fight and lose the battle, and the thing that they fought for comes about in spite of their defeat, and when it comes turns out not to be what they meant, and other men have to fight for what they meant under another name."
The beginning is near!
zucnei your negativity and apparent feelings of your superiority are making me excrete after being constipated for years. If you continue your path of negativity it will surround you,and shroud anything positive that may come your way,leaving you blinded by your own illusions. You may not think the crowd was huge,the way your girl doesnt think "you are", the point being what's huge to some may be tiny to others. What does size matter for anyway.Idiot,she still tells you it is big right? so you don't feel less of the man you aren't anyway.
screw the 1980's-zucnei did anything happen to our world for the good in the 80's? Not unless you believe good to mean screw US out of more of what we dont have.--- If the movement you talk of had any significance how come we are in this situation now.Idiot, this is the only movement EVER in Human "written"history where the people of the world can unite, for the 1reason-the internet. Noone can "stop the presses"of common man,allowing everyone the capable of linking their minds/thoughts/actions
I have never in my lifetime been as proud of my country as I am now. To the men and women on the front lines,you are true heroes. I believe in what we are doing. This entire planet , Earth we can globally rescue her , from the greed and corruption .My hope is we can all embrace each other. There is more that unites us than devides us. we are all brothers and sisters, There is no room for Hate we can only succeed by Love. When they strike you , turn the other cheek. Its hard and it's bad out there United we win devided we fall ,but if or backs are ever up against the wall,we'll be together ...remember that song?
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Declaration Of Independence - For those who might find some problem with the wording. It is our duty to 'throw off such Government...'.
If you are quoting from the Declaration of Independence to justify the Occupy Wall Street movement, those words are incompatible with your philosophy. Occupy Wall Street was engineered with Socialist and Marxist usurpers for the purpose of not only pointing the finger at Capitalism and accusing it of the sins of crony-capitalism, but also for the purpose of discrediting legitimate grassroots movements that have appeared since 2007. The free market more or less unregulated aside from rules against monopolies and fraud allows for even the poorest to become rich by their own hand with nothing more than their own ingenuity and the sweat of their brow. CRONY-CAPITALISM is the antithesis of true Capitalism. It is when thos who have become rich and powerful enough to influence local, state, or even federal governments and use that power to destroy their competition and grow even richer. This is what happened in the past few centuries, and was small, but significant part of the justification for our Founding Fathers declaring their Independence(among a host of other reasons relating to tyranny). What we have now is an apex-predator class that is beyond the laws of nations, who wield the power to manipulate the UN itself to serve their own agenda. They literally feed on the suffering of people and have studied human nature to achieve that end. Occupy Wall Street is the end result of their manipulation. We're human beings, and thus our beings transcend the physical world. We KNOW something is dreadfully wrong with our country and the entire world. These feelings are stoked and manipulated wherever possible by these elitists, who have been studying the human mind for longer than many of us have been alive, and ALL OF US are being fed misinformation through lines of communication that have ALWAYS been under their control. Google? NSA front organization. Twitter? CIA. Both data mining us, and both being used to overthrow entire countries. Better think very carefully about what OWS is really about, because I know there are a lot of really intelligent people with their hearts in the right place in here. However, such talk of overthrowing the government can only lead to darker places than we have ever seen. The Democratic Apparatus was laid out by our Founding fathers so that the powers of the government as defined by the Constitution can be regulated through the power of your votes. While provisions for the removal and replacement of the government exist in the form of the 1st, 2nd, 9th, and 10th Amendments, these provisions should be considered with the upmost caution---and in the correct order--especially now. You're upset because the camps are being dismantled by the police and protesters being forced out. It's a hell of a lot better than the camps getting torched and those said protesters getting slaughtered under machine gun fire. What you're asking for when you protest will bring these things about, so be careful what you wish for.
Please remove the above spam... Do you think there is one intelligent person that will read your rant and believe or concur? Perhaps you believe they are Marxist and Socialist but I do not see that in the faces and the voices of The People.
You speak from fear that The People will win out over corporate greed and career politicians manipulation.
Those you speak of cannot find work, have lost their homes.
They are true patriots...
That is what I have been saying all along is it not??
The goverment charged with responsiblities under the Constitution NOT NOT NOT the Constitution.
I think you need to actually start RESEARCHING what is really going on in this world before you start camping out in town squares and public parks to protest just because you were told it was important. While you're sittin' here blogging and drinking your Pepsi, first thing you should consider is that PepsiCo is in hot water for using aborted fetal tissue as flavor enhancers during product testing---and that's only what's been ADMITTED! Second thing you should start to realize is that the damned polar bears are NOT drowning because of global warming, and that they are instead the strongest swimmers of any land mammal--let alone any PREDATOR on the planet, and they walk on the Alaskan oil pipeline to warm their feet. The true threat to this planet's environment are Genetically Modified Organisms, or GMO's introduced into the environment without regulations and left unchecked. The genetic modifications can jump from food supply to consumer, and have proven through laboratory animal testing to not only cause gross mutations of the gut, but render all lab animals sterile within three generations. YOU'RE EATING THIS STUFF PEOPLE!
And while you're plotting your next protest and pointing your soft little fingers at Capitalism for your woes while you've got your hand out, here's a little reality check: The redistribution of wealth that you're wanting is commonly referred to as Socialism---and it has NEVER worked! It instead degenerates into Communism, and from there into Totalitarianism. You're upset because the police broke up your camps?! the government infrastructure that makes Socialism function AT ALL will by ITS VERY NATURE bring about a POLICE STATE where your right to free speech and peaceful assembly will be completely stripped away!
But go ahead and flame me. It makes no difference. You're useful idiots that are being played by the puppets in our own government, just like all the other "protests" going on in the Middle East. All set up by Google, SEIU, Code Pink, and the like. Started for the purpose of justifying military occupation and overthrow of entire nations by the super rich who want nothing more than to turn the entire planet into their own little play-toy.
But remember one thing... the Revolutionaries that bring about the overthrow of existing governments for these people are the first to be eliminated.
Isn't N17 the anarchist Greek murder squad? Why in the world would non-violent protest sign up to such a name and date ???
Finally a reason to get your lazy asses off your parents couch and go cost the taxpayers some more money!!! You are really GOYIM,While you are gone your parents are not lamenting your being away and will actually take the time to procreate some productive human beings instead of the "the world owes me everything because im to lazy to get it for myself"
It is interesting that this is called a "leaderless revolution" yet someone is running this website, organizing when and where protests will happen and casting vision for why this is important. It is interested reading through the articles on this site that there is a lot of talk about the need for revolution and why you don't like the current system but no suggestions for what the practical result of revolution is. What changes are you suggesting that can be implemented and have been thought through that are not just principals or general cries for the structure to look different? Bringing awareness to discontentment is not the same as providing legitimate solutions.
They are closing bridges and subways being closed to prevent more from coming. Do not believe the police are shutting down transportation access to protect the subways. They are doing it to stop more protesters from coming in.
But they will come, nothing can stop this...
I really think it is comical to read in this article in the first paragraph that the NYPD leveled your homes at Liberty Square to the ground. What gives you all the right to live in a park, do nothing all day, steal from eachother, and commit other atrocities while the rest of us pay for homes and go to work each day so you can live on unemployment and various entitlements. Go home and OCCUPY your pathetic lives. Or try this one on for size, OCCUPY EMPLOYMENT. I know that working is beneath you especially when your current favored administration can steal from the pockets of hard working wealthy individuals, but getting a fast food job to pay the rent and buy food is noble, not pathetic. GO GET A JOB!
What the protesters should do is teach the World,and the State of New York a lesson that will never be forgotten. I think if the 99% can shut down the Macy's Thanks Giving Day Parade it would show the rest of the World how strong you really are. Trust me everybody will really start believing,and taking things seriously this time around.
what a bunch of pathetic wankers. what is the message of today? take, demand, destroy, and gripe about no application of worthless lib arts degree in real world work place? what is message? peddle this bs in cuba and take a shower.
Do not ridicule our participants. Do not trivialize our progress. Do not undervalue our impact. You cannot disparage the movement.
In the spirit of the brilliant movie "The Inside Job" I encourage peeling back the layers of the cultural and educational institutions that propagate and financially benefit from the web of exploitation. Take a look at the Dean of The College of Business and Public Administration of Keane University in NJ. From a position in the Reagan White House Dept. of Energy to consulting for oil companies to all the perks of academia.
Move to Greece. They have it AWESOME over there. You can do like a half-day's work and get paid for a full day! You don't have to pay taxes (well you should, but they don't enforce it, sweet) You can retire super early! And you don't have to be smart or hard-working or anything, you won't even get fired! Kind of like in France. It's so cool just to have large groups of people at 'work' just sitting around, shooting the breeze, no pressure to put forth effort from "the man". Totally awesome!
Next time we close down Wall Street we need to have thousands of our own bells to ring. They ring the bell and these idiot corporate leaders stand around the open bell ringer and clap that they are stealing from the 99%. That stupid ritual is repulsive. Keep protesting. Don't loose your cool or call others names just forge ahead like those who sat at the counters in the 60's. The only way to do it.
Until we have the same separation between Business and State that we've had for years with Church and State, Business will continue to co-opt our governmental processes and tilt the playing field in their favor. Business will Never accede to anything that limits their influence or their profits. How, then, to build that wall? Their bought-and-paid-for legislators will not propose or approve any such measures until there is an irresistable demand.
The 18th amendment (Prohibition) faced much the same situation in the 1920's. The government was dependant upon liquor taxes and was unwilling to enact restrictive legislation on its own. As a result of several years of growing public demand, however, they were able to submit legislation and eventually have it ratified. This required the concerted efforts of many different organizations and groups, all aimed at the same goal.
The capitalist system works well for capitalists, but that very success tends to crowd out other goals. We live in a capitalistic world, with nations competing for increasingly scarce resources, and we can't escape or ignore that reality. We can, however, force our legislators to recognize and accept the popular will if we can A) focus on a goal, and B) energize the citizenry to support that goal.
Failing to limit Wall Street influence on our legislative processes ensures that things will continue down the same road that led us where we are now.
While you are protesting both houses of Congress are now about to vote on a bill to limit internet activity. It is time to Occupy Congress with 10 Million folks and take back the government. When we do this watch the military move into action and the secret CIA concentration camps already built come into view. They practiced on all major US cities a few years ago in those "military" manuevers many Mayors including Jerry Brown of CA allowed. He is one of "them" - do not be fooled. He has lost his moonbeam and earned his moon walk.
I have written two comments that have dissappeared. I would like to know if it is OWS who is censoring thir or the CIA. Is there any information anywhere on what one can say here or not?
Keep posting. The powers that be are watchin everything and they are definitely upset. The orchestration of many cities to remove the tents with the same rationale is a "richo" type action. These Mayors are in full control by a powerful other that you are protesting against.
The US controls internet and they want to pass a new law to censor it with intellectual property justifications. If this law is approved in Congress, bye bye free internet. Only Americans can stop this before free information dissappears in the whole planet. Urgent, urgent.
They know the Occupy movements, the Spanish 15-M, etc are spreading and they want to speed up control of internet and of evertying, they are appinting prime ministers working for Goldman Sachs in several European countries, it is urgent to stop them or we will have financial fascism in the whole planet. Hitler failed with weapons, but the superrich are conquering the world with money. Look at the action on internet in Avaaz.org and vote against neofascism. Urgent, urgent.
Actions like blocking the subway will only cause nuisance to the 99%. So actually to hurt the 1%, actions to be done are :
1) Boycott all Corporate Goods and Services.
2) Pull your money out of Corporate Banks and Investments.
3) Create and Support Alternatives,that threaten Corporation.
4) Enlighten others to Boycott.
New Yorkers, suppose 20 years later your children have no job, have no health care and have no home. He asks what you did 20 years ago today when the machine which drove them to poverty could have been stopped by you going to the NYSE to protest for a day. How are you going to answer him? Will you say I did not go because otherwise I would lose $70 salary for the day? Or will you say I did not go because I had other things to do? It is your call today, New Yorkers. Think about what will you do today.
Hateful rhetoric.
I'm a little confused. When it says "shut down" Wall Street, what exactly does that mean? Will people be blocking entrances so that people can't get into their office buildings? What exactly is the goal of tomorrow and how will it be accomplished?
Any explanation and clarification is appreciated. Unfortunately, I have to work tomorrow and cannot attend, but I would be grateful if someone could explain this to me all the same.
Actions like blocking the subway will only cause nuisance to the 99%. So actually to hurt the 1%, action to be done are :
I agree you can not evict an idea who's time has come, and it's time! Best of luck on the 17th.
Thanks Occupy Wall Street, your doing a fantastic job, inspiring ordinary peoples all over the world into one common key cause, to bring about transformation and change in this destructive oppressive system we ALL live and suffer under.
Why indeed cant we change and with intelligence design a system that actually benefits humanity instead of destroying the planet?
Are we stupid or what...!?? How depressing to see humanity stumble on in darkness, blindly destroying each other and the very planet we depend upon for our survival!
THANKS for hitting the nail on the head and bringing this important crucial subject matter onto the world stage. May we succeed in understanding and clarifying what needs to change and have the skill, courage, unity, mass and determination to see it through under the intelligent banner of non violent action.
May the force be with you one and all!
FBI agents and hired ad men are the ones posting such uninformed scathing abusive comments on all sights about occupy. Do not be fooled by trite Hoover day tactics. Hurling expletives is their strength because they have no minds, no life, no love. They are paid to log on and spam with their snide rude uninformed dribble. No one bashing occupy has actually spoken with members of occupy. Most occupy people are highly educated workug and tax paying. They are courageous and enlightened. The darkness cannot swallow every light.
correct
This is not really about "us versus them." It is more like "me versus you." The real class war is the 99 percent fighting each other.
Read about the culture of selfishness here:
www.josephcouture.com "It's About Me, Stupid"
Typical Idealist Philosophy. You will not Change the Monopoly Capitalist World System, which is an Objective, Concrete Reality, just by 'Changing Your Mind'. They don't Care what you 'Think' , they take notice of what you Do. This is why the Occupy Movement needs the Trade Unions, Workers and Students. People who live in the Real Social World rather than some pseudo 'multi dimensional' fiction of their own making ...
eventually have to have real voters in large numbers to change, even at a slow pace. it can b done. already the conversations have changed.
right bro!
It is devastating reality that many people are so afraid that what little they have will be taken away that they point fingers and try to disband solidarity. It is not unlike a hungry dog defending his last bit of kibble by bearing his teeth to the other hungry dogs. What can we do to help the fearful integrate into a more bountiful system? How can we express that not just I, but ALL people deserve better than this? The fact that every single man woman and child isn't out on the street means we need to occupy our minds for a moment to conjure a way to find the language that everyone can understand.
99% fighting each other---that is how we got where we are....
It's about the 1% of the 99% trying to gain control.
And so goes history. Rather pathetic that we so enjoy having our nose so close to the A-- of the one or 1% above us isn't it.
Blame the nature of the species.
You may not like the movement but you must Know the facts on the monetary system
1) This link explains How the money takes its birth and how it ends. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty8.htm
2) This Link Explains the Monetary Defect. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty9.htm
3) This Link Explains the monetary system on a whole. http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
4) This videos explains the fractional reserve banking and the more important inflation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAjOk_UY9I
5) Quotes of the famous persons on banking system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagHbRWh6MI
6) This video explains the history of bankers and the ones who fight against the bankers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
Thanks for the referral - finally one that does not refer me to wickpedia (yeah, I know sp).
Removing Glass Steagall in 1999 assured investment bank failures would get bailouts.
The SEC changed the bank leverage requirement from 12-to-1 to 50-to-1 in 2005.
Most of the bad mortgages were made in 2006, the 2007 FBI Mortgage Fraud report showed 80% of fraud was from the lender.
Nobody in OWS had anything to do with the huge jump in unemployment, massive waste of taxpayer funds, and removal of services the taxpayers paid for. It was entirely caused by Wall Street.
This has absolutely nothing to do with selfishness. I work full time and have been for a decade. I don't buy gadgets, no special music, no blog, no website, no drugs, and I do everything I can to help my friends and family.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and your presumptions come from a blend of arrogance and hatred.
A quick search of wiki shows that n17 was also a Marxist urban guerrilla organization.
Take a bath smellyhippie
N 17. is a Greek terrorist, Marxist organization you fucking fools
These useful idiots are true idiots in the fact that they have no idea they are being used. The movement has been started and controlled and now hijacked by enemies of america and they are too dumb to see it or just dont care.
I wouldn't do this. There's still time to call it off. This is NOT a good idea.
You occupiers are not the 99%, your a fringe .02 % if your lucky. The rest of us are just watching you laughing.
N17
http://www.orau.gov/DHSsummit/presentations/March17/Panel5/Anderson_Mar17.pdf
To the undercover/overt law "enforcers" and unhappy individuals that are so terrified of this movement as to attempt to clog the comments with unabashed nervousness of change that it reeks "yellow belly" stench....I will continue,as other Occupiers, with creating the change necessary for a truly egalitarian world; where resources are protected, nurtured and shared with every living individual on this planet. Creating a world filled with individuals no longer bound to the false notion that a piece of paper with a politician's face on it is an actually resource (unless you count it a great camp fire starter, wall paper or building insulation). I do this for you, those who are scared of the great and growing movement, your children, family, friends and all others; And I pray that you join the Occupy Movement here and worldwide for your children, parents, extended family, friends and strangers....the same strangers who are a part of this movemnment for you!
Cheers xoxo,
Lisa Marie Chadwick
FYI...In my training of pepper (OC) spray, there are two types, oil base and water base. with oil, you cannot use water to wash it off. it stays on your face and when the effects are over, when you take a shower later, water will re-activate it. Water base will wash out with water. What they told us was to always cary a bottle of baby shampoo to wash it off in case we spray ourselves. I was lucky enough to never need to use baby shampoo on myself, but that is what I was told in OC Spray training. FYI Please be safe and help each other out. Have a plan B and know your exits in case something happens.
To the undercover/overt law "enforcers" and unhappy individuals that are so terrified of this movement as to attempt to clog the comments with unabashed nervousness of change that it reeks "yellow belly" stench....I will continue,as other Occupiers, with creating the change necessary for a truly egalitarian world; where resources are protected, nurtured and shared with every living individual on this planet. Creating a world filled with individuals no longer bound to the false notion that a piece of paper with a politician's face on it is an actually resource (unless you count it a great camp fire starter, wall paper or building insulation). I do this for you, those who are scared of the great and growing movement, your children, family, friends and all others; And I pray that you join the Occupy Movement here and worldwide for your children, parents, extended family, friends and strangers....the same strangers who are a part of this movemnment for you!
Cheers xoxo,
Lisa Marie Chadwick
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NO occupying or disrupting the subway!!! Don't do this, u r harming and losing the support of the 99 percent. NOT ready for this yet in this country. RECONSIDER YOUR strategy, NOT NOW, PLEASE!!!
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OWS---is not about wealth redistribution. It's okay to make millions it's just not okay to take advantage of others in the name of greed. It's like what was happening at Penn State. Do you keep the status quo in the name of greed? OR do you intervene, and keep the 1% from raping the 99%? Thank you for not being afraid and steping up you are the brave souls!
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The constant hyperbole is off-putting. I don't understand why its necessary to exaggerate to make a point about how bad things are - it undercuts the message.
First global movement? A public space that is meant for community use is your "home"? There are real foreclosures going on out there.
What was 1968 or the Arab Spring about? Didn't that happen first? Wasn't Tiananmen Square and the fall of the Eastern Bloc happening around the same time global enough to count? You trivialize the achievements of others.
Are you larger than the LGBT movements of the late 80s in this country?
After Fox, this is now officially the 2nd least accurate organization out there. For the record, last nights crowd was anything but "huge".
Can't you just say "income distribution is messed up - anyone who is fed up show up tomorrow at [name the site]", do you have to pat yourselves on the back for two paragraphs before you say or do anything?
I am a big supporter of this movement and I do agree, the hyperbole is not only damaging, it is totally unnecessary. You have to remain credible. Don't call small crowds huge. Don't call 'some' bullying, violent removal. Just don't. I don't take as much exception to this post as zucnei, but a couple of the statements in the post were not acceptable to me
if your a big supporter of this then, would you support a domestic violence protest against a company that helps people who have been victims but make their stores and programs unsave cause they have people who are the abuser working for them? if so email me cobra7834@gmail.com
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Credibility is very important OWS - don't, please don't descend to the level of the 1% - once you do that, you've lost.
Rise New York!
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More Power to Occupy Wall Street. Keep Changing and Keep Improvising. It will help keep the 1% and Their Sheriffs off-balance. Fair-ness.
Yes, they can't let the removal of some tents kill the movement...There will be obstacles along every step of the way and improvising to overcome each obstacle (and create obstacles for the 1%) will be needed. Camping out in front of Wall Street in the first place required some new thinking and it needs to continue.
By new thinking you mean the dumbest idea ever right? The corruption is in the government einstein. Your being used.
Well I hope tomorrow's protest will be big - democracy is under attack - even here in Europe where France and Germany seems to be calling the shots. We need a very clear message globally and the likes of Occupy Wall Street is what's needed. I hope that Wall Street trading will be at least suspended tomorrow - heartless traders need exposure to what people and their livelihoods are about.
Rise New York!
France and germany calling the shots? Could it possibly be because they are the only ones who arent broke and now have to pay for the laziness and irresponsibility of the other countries?
That's so Right Wing IMO!
What about the banks who lent irresponsibly - after all, their directors were paid massive salaries to do what they were paid to do - run the banks properly - instead, they ran them into the ground - they wrecked many of the Western Economies!
On another note - if for example, France and Germany overlent, then they also acted improperly and should take their medicine like the rest of us in the Eurozone.
I really think the world economy in its current form is finished!
Rise New York!
I dont know about your banks but american banks were told they had to lend sub prime loans to millions of people that couldnt ever pay them back. Its called a bubble. Then when it popped it leaves these people with debt and the banks on the verge of going broke. The same people who orchestrated this along with the houseing bubble then step in and bailout all the lenders. Then points at the lenders to keep the attention focused on them. Here we are.
Man when responsibility and laziness become political for you then you know you are messed up.
democracy under attack1 yes by OWS these are socialists and would love to see democracy gone
There's no democracy under capitalism, if what you mean by democracy is that we have any say in the political process of "electing" so-called "representatives"; and there's no contradiction between socialism and democracy, if you believe that democracy also includes meeting basic human needs for the 99.9%. Marx wrote that democracy under capitalism is everyone's free right to sleep under the bridges of Paris. It's that kind of democracy that we're protesting.
Hahaha a self proclaimed marxist i cant wait to run your ass out of this country.
Do you honestly think the current regimes of the Western World are democratic - I just saw on Firefox (http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/fx/) that Internet Censorship is in the pipeline - see 'Stop Censorship'. Real democratic isn't it!!!
Rise New York!
Uh oh--reductionism alert. I'm no socialist or commie, but I do know that this system isn't working.
How can income distribution be messed up? There is no such thing.
come tomorrow
It is called PROPAGANDA. Has nothing to do with truth. And I agree it undermines what should be a unifying message. But this is the usual path of revolution. The conflict is addictive and so escalates irrationally and the end is usually violent. A shame.
"income distribution" is just fine. Get a degree. Work hard. You will make exactly what you are worth. American's must stop expecting to be paid $100,000 for a $50,000 job!
Who decides who's worth what? Is a banker worth 100 times what a teacher is worth? How about a soldier? Is an individual's "worth" really reflected in their income? If that's true, then there are a billion people in the world who are worthless. If that's true, then Jesus was worthless. If you follow your argument to its logical conclusion, what you're advocating is genocide.
Thank you, I was literally about to say the same thing. Why does someone make millions sitting on their butts while their workers, who actually do the work, get scraps? Is that fair at all?
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A degree promises nothing in this country. My mother went to grad school and her brother and my father owned their own distribution business for 40 years. Now they both make as much as me working for minimum wage dead end jobs when they should be retiring. Between balancing the mortgage and my student loans I spend more time working for chicken feed, then attending classes just so the bills can be paid; we are the 99%
unfortunately getting a degree is not a real solution in this economy. that's why the movement is so strong. if the old paradigm of "take out loans, get a degree so you can get a job and pay them back" still worked, this movement wouldn't exist. what is compounding the problem is that older people are calling protesters "lazy" because they are not content coming out of college and getting jobs flipping burgers for minimum wage. young people were promised by society that getting a degree meant a better life awaited them. unfortunately, this isn't true right now, so young people's trust in the economic system is declining.
re: "promised by society that getting a degree meant a better life awaited them"...Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what #OWS has to say, but you, and anyone else who thinks like you do needs a reality check. What you need is a MARKETABLE SKILL not necessarily some meaningless "degree". Get into either one of the "white collar" or "blue collar" technical skilled trades, and you'll almost never be out of work. I know plenty of people in HVAC that make upwards of $100,000 a year, yet the trade lacks enough people entering it...Wake yourself up and get to work !!!
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Fight back non-violently. Keep on growin´ keep on fighting, Occupy more and REoccupy
"What you should do is exactly the kinds of things that are going to lead to hysteria among privileged and powerful people" - Noam Chomsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws&feature=related
solidarity and greetings from Norway yours s struggleforfreedom
Let's go!!!
Freddie and Fannie is next. They took a bailout for over 200 billion and want another 100 mil. Their two top guys want a 12 mil bonus this year. OCCUPY FANNIE ANS FREDDIE
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/bloombarak.png/
There will come a time when you realize that although all of your points,arguments, grievances and demands are valid, they are falling on deaf ears. The time for talking is OVER! It's time to take action.
No, you have to keep talking, too, the ideas this movement is based on are its political capital; and the tactics--whether sleeping in the park; taking money out of banks; organizing across the whole world via the internet--those will have to be worked out with careful discussion. There's already been plenty of action, and not all of it has been that constructive (like violent men in black). By action, you seem to mean getting more aggressive, but what OWS needs is much tighter discipline among the members, and not allowing societal outlaws, like sexual perverts and drug dealers, to poison the message. OWS never had any obligation to service these characters. Please, please don't substitute frustration for strategy. Thanks.
Play by their rules and you will lose. The rules were paid for by the rich to keep them in power. They are violating the US Constitution giving the people the right to assemble. Hit them with numbers where they live.
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The Honorable ;) Mayor of NYC is worth 20 billion!!! That right there in our money equals power equals free speech system establishes him as something of a king. Someone who can rule by fiat an is unshackled by law.
A democracy is ruled by law, not by (very extremely rich) men. The USA is ruled by rich men. It is a corrupt plutocratic oligarchy. The common man must obey laws, and are subject to the free market risk of failure. Those at the top are treated to socialism in that society bails them out, has bailed them out, and they are above the law.
I think you are missing a point here. If those at the top garner almost all of the wealth, there is none left for the rest of society, no matter how hard we work and struggle. Wealth inequity and polarization of its distribution is inimical to freedom and democracy. If a handful of men pretty much own the USA, it is tyranny plain and simple.
OK wrong on many parts. But the fact that they are out protesting and trying to innitiate a change means they aren't being lazy and doing nothing, so clearly you have low intelligence as is.
However, the issue is businesses raise their prices on everything while not equally distributing raises. How can a business ask for more money for goods if the workers aren't getting paid more?
Good reason for home problems, see people get paid money, they buy things with that money right? Like houses and cars and blah blah blah. Well, what happens when that person gets fired? And don't say they should have learned a trade and went to school. Let's just say, I don't know, someone like my father who came from, a not-so friedly household and got out of there as quick as possible, he had little money, luckily he had a job to pay rent, and no skills. He was left to work hard for little, then he was given a chance to go into roofing, not the prettiest of jobs, but it paid better for less hours, still not 6 figures though, in fact no where near. He worked for 15 years and never had any problems with bills, worked all year round, things were great, he knew how to budget. Was my father supposed to know that the next year he would be laid off work for 2 months, how about 3 months the year after, how about 6 months 2 more years down the road. What can he do, he has roofing. It is his trade, and it's gone. While my father is trying to scrape money together his employer complains that he only made 32 million dollars that year instead of his typical 70 million or so. Fair?
Also, the problem with business and government is that the two work as one. If we trample the current government now, the businesses will just put money in the pockets of the next ass holes who claim to be representitives. The cycle won't end.....But end the source of so much greed and it's over. Let me educate you a bit...Back in ancient Rome the patrician (higher class citizens) were never disrespectful and unfair to their lower class citizens (plebians). This was because they had ideas of being good to all Romans. However, Hellenistic (blend of Greek and other cultures) spread to Rome, many Roman ideas were being crushed. This lead to a whole new perspective between the two classes. The Patricians started treating Plebians with little respect and made laws and rules against plebians, making them, essentially slaves, to the patricians....guess what....Plebians rebelled and killed many Patricians and took power. Sound familiar?
I hope you get fired one day, I hope you show up late to work and get fired, and nobody will hire you because your job isn't in 'demand' anymore. Then we will see who's side you're really on.
life isnt fair so quit bitching about it. no one cares about your troubles. we all have your own. America wasn't built by whinny, lazy bitches like you all. Right now we need America's work force to be looking for jobs or CREATING jobs, instead of sleeping on the streets and sitting around all day. You all are a WASTE OF GOOD AMERICANS
Rise New York!!!
This message is for Dio1313, hay let's do lunch! I work in midtown I'm buying that is if you have the Balls? I think you have some manhood issues your trying to work on! I'm right huh? you like to come here to play by putting people down it makes you feel good right? that's what gets you off! I bet you either work on wall st or wish you did, cause then you would feel like a big man! with a little dick instead of a little man with a little dick.
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MikeKennedy61 you are not acting any better that Dio1313 you are just making us OWS people look like bad people. We are a peaceful protest.
I believe that the Berlin wall being torn down by tens of thousands of truly oppressed people who couldn't occupy a bench let alone a park may have been a larger historical milestone than barely enough to fill a small off broadway theater being ushered out of a park to clean it up and allowed to return.
The Arab Spring has seen dictators fall and millions of people who had no voice is no comparison with the opportunity you have to speak your mind, share your ideas, discuss freely and enjoy the opportunity to travel as you wish. You have taken every freedom given you for granted and are not content until you make yourselves the 1% against the 99%. Not in wealth but in life.
Interrupt the subway? To what end? What millionaire takes the MTA? What 1% is going to be really upset that you took over Foley Square? You are fast becoming the 1% who simply want to complain, and not be amazed at the choices, opportunities, open doors, options for speech, worship, travel, that you have.
You may not like the movement but you must Know the facts on the monetary system
1) This link explains How the money takes its birth and how it ends. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty8.htm
2) This Link Explains the Monetary Defect. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty9.htm
3) This Link Explains the monetary system on a whole. http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
4) This videos explains the fractional reserve banking and the more important inflation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAjOk_UY9I
5) Quotes of the famous persons on banking system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagHbRWh6MI
6) This video explains the history of bankers and the ones who fight against the bankers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
I dont like your anonymous cowardly ass.
What open doors? That to have a comfortable life one has to beocme a surgeon, or business owner? Why can't any other people live happy? Eventually we will run out of demand for those few jobs, and then what?
Are you kidding? Seriously? You're joking, right? What open doors? Have you ever traveled the world? Ever stepped foot in a third world country? Ever seen what the population of India lives like? How about China? No? Didn't think so. Those are DEVELOPED countries! How about tossing in a few of the countries in South America, even Central America, hell, let's take a road trip to Mexico our southern North American neighbors. Have you ever stepped foot in Mexico? Ever seen a child peddling chicklets at the border for a quarter?
You seriously think no doors are open to you? The comfortable life I have? My friend, I am more "99%" than you can imagine. I have a mortgage. I have debt. I have credit cards, and a cell phone bill, and I used to work a minimum wage job, and I worked my butt off, and guess what? I'm not making a 6 figure income. But I damn well know that I am lucky to be in this country, I can vote every 1st Tuesday of November.
Few jobs? Yes, unemployment is high. My wife was unemployed and she luckily found work. My friend was out of work for 2 years, it hurts. It's a struggle. I work to make my mortgage payment, and my heart breaks when I see children suffering with no clean water, shoes, a swollen belly from the hunger.
Why can't other people live happy? You must be delusional. Happiness is what you make of it. Ask any of the tens of millions in North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan, Darfur about happiness. Ask the starving in India, the half million homeless in Haiti about "Happy". You're bitching about what? I don't think I'll ever see a half million dollar salary let alone join the 1%.. but what right do I have to dare demand that they give up what they have worked for?
Because YOU equate happiness with money? Are you kidding? Look up the statistics on where you rank in the world when you turn on a light switch and a light responds. Or my goodness! When you have a toilet with water! And a faucet with clean water! Or a hospital that will take you in an emergency.
I invite you to open your mind, expand your horizon and learn about mankind. Don't believe that a fat wallet is either the evil of the world or the good. Some people have it, some of them earned it, some stole it, some inherited it. Was Bill Gates rich? Was Tiger Woods? Do you begrudge them? Did Michael Moore not give enough to charity? Educate yourself. Learn about the other inhabitants of this world we live in. Don't ever think you speak for me or millions of others.
Do not dare believe that the "99%" follow you. You are the 1%. Angry, poorly thought out, conceived and constructed arguments like yours do the movement no good and in fact do it harm.
I think we need to reinstitute the "teach-in." Your appeal is both passionate and reasonable, BUT, it overlooks the crucial issues that some of the previous commentators have not been able to express. They're swept up, but some are inexperienced, and yes, even immature. I think it is illogical to argue that we must tolerate corruption in our government and our financial institutions because some of us are still secure and privileged. Yes our society functions at a high level still, but for how much longer? A person with foresight can see the writing on the wall, trends that are portents of a catastrophic future. I see that democracy is in crisis, and the evidence is everywhere: the influence of lobbyists, FEC vs. Citizens United, deregulation that causes the financial and environmental rape of the planet, monopolies. You seem like a well educated and sensible person, jiddes. Don't let the obviously "green" enthusiasts distract you from message that essentially has merit. I appeal to you to educate yourself about some of the real grievances this movement is expressing.
Illustrate injustice of great consequence! Show these severe roller-coaster price histories that are kept out of sight, to fool the people. "Real Homes, Real Dow" at: http://homepage.mac.com/ttsmyf/RHandRD.html
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I am a big supporter of OWS, but the statement above sounds a bit arrogant. I don't think OWS has brought a massive awakening in the world. People in other parts of the world from Middle East to Africa to Japan have their own issues (and yes, they are all extremely connected to each other, that's why I support OWS) and have been demonstrating long before OWS movement in the US began. It is essential that we connect the dots to really learn from history (or histories) and find who's been benefitting behind so many world events, but please don't say that OWS started the world movement. People in the world had been waiting for the awakening of the real American people for a long time.
I don't think anyone in America is ignorant to the fact that this is something people around the world have been struggling against and protesting for a long time. Just keep in mind this was written to Americans meant to inspire Americans to action, not foreigners. As you said you're not part of occupy wall street, but actually a part of your own movement that's very similar. I'm sure your country and your movement are equally proud of their own accomplishments as well.
I live in NY and raise my child here. I think I have been part of OWS bringing food and goods to Zuccotti and attending GAs and marches but I am part of a movement elsewhere at the same time and have been working hard to promote OWS overseas. If you exclude foreigners in NY by calling us not American, you will lose so many people.
From your post it sounded like you were writing from another country. I never said anything that could even remotely be construed as calling immigrants unamerican.
"this was written to Americans meant to inspire Americans to action" -but it is soooo important to be always aware that the world is visiting this site. Just look at people's comments -many of them reflect what I was talking about. We all want to support and feel part of it, but taking all credit for yourself is off-putting. This is definitely a kind of thing that will be raised in GA as a friendly amendment and put thru the consensus process and most likely rephrased. I propose to change "certainly the first global one in modern history" to "we certainly play an important role in the first global movement in modern history" or something like that. That's all.
I wouldn't totally agree - while the Arabs (Arab Spring) got the ball rolling, I've been very aware of Occupy Wall Street even before Occupy Dame Street in Dublin (Ireland) near where I live (1/2 hour by motorway).
Rise New York!
PEACE and continued strength!!
Look's like sombody is Glenn Beck or watched a little to much Glenn Beck.........
The entire Occupy movement should come down to DC and camp in Anacostia Park, site of the original Bonus March Encampment in 1932. Do what the Bonus Marchers did. Set up a clean, formal encampment. I'm sure there are enough sponsors who will pay for potties and showers.
Then, every day, all those at the encampment should get up at 6:30 a.m. and march down Maryland Avenue to the Capitol and spend the day visiting their Senators and Representatives. Every day until they get something done, like a nationwide Section 8 subsidy program so that everyone pays 1/3 of their monthly income for housing.
Let's get organized, Fellow Workers!
I think this is a good idea... I would take it further though and use donation money to provide free housing for everyone who needs it.
Once we have a plan in principle, the details can be worked out. We have enough support to provide housing and food if we are taking direct action on a daily basis, marching down to Congress and making our demands known.
what exactly are your demands? isn't that part of the problem with OWS, no one knows what the demands are? free education? free healthcare? free housing? forgiveness of student debt, mortgages, etc. When you get to Washington, what are your demands?
if you look at the other forums, you will see that demands are being discussed as we speak. Reinstatement of Glass-Steagall is a primary concern for those who are focused on a particular Wall Street crime; my focus is on ending the housing crisis by instituting a nationwide "Section 8" subsidy program that will likewise serve to stimulate the economy.
But that's not what my Occupy DC proposal is all about. It is, rather that we shift all our energies to DC, set up a huge encampment on site of the 1932 Bonus March encampment, and march daily to Congress. At the same time, that encampment can serve as a "shadow Congress" which will discuss the same issues on a daily basis. The point is to take our government back from Wall Street, and show our representatives that we can be as strong a force in their lives as the 1%
a nationwide section 8 subsidy? are you kidding me? the housing market is already in the dumps and you want to tank it even further? The Glass-Steagall reinstatement, understandable, but the housing part is insanity and middle class americans (who are the 99%) will never go for that. I have approximately 200,000 in equity in my home because I bought in 1994 at a low price and have stayed in my house. My home's value would plummet along with so many others. The middle class will not stand for that. sorry...
I respectfully disagree with you. The subsidy would in fact help the market by providing owners for all the foreclosed properties at reasonable prices. This would stabilize the market and stimulate new construction. It would also mean that homeowners would have funds to spend and save, stimulating the economy further. No home value would plummet. Your house would maintain its present value, and would in fact rise in value because of the subsidies. Besides, since you're planning to stay in your house, why would you care what its present value is?
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I have to respectfully disagree with you. While my heart certainly goes out to those whose homes are either underwater or, in fact, foreclosed on, the fact is the overwhelming majority of homeowners, even in the worst states like Nevada, etc. are not in trouble. The biggest problem right now is that there are people out there who could purchase the foreclosed homes, but the banks have now swung the pendulum for mortgage lending completely 180 to what brought us to the housing bubble in the first place. When the rules were relaxed so much to allow people with either no money down; no credit checks, no income verifications to purchase homes based upon lending schemes, the majority of those loans went under. We are, at least here in NJ, almost at rock bottom when it comes to the housing bubble. But I don't believe that creating yet another type of entitlement program to help underwater homeowners is in the best interests of the country as a whole.
lol...all of the above? I just decided I'm going to join OWS... I want a free Ferrari... What??? It's OK... I'm an American and I saw someone driving one on the interstate once... so I should get one too.
I love that idea!!! Finally some one who wants to do it the right way instead of this disorder
thank you. Pass it on. Anacostia for the encampment, daily visits to our representatives. Show them who we are and make them listen!
Fellow workers? That's a laugh.
easy to be insulting when you can hide in the shadows, isn't it? How about you come to DC and we can chat about this face to face?
Old fart, you and your so called movement are going nowhere. I am not hiding in the shadows, I come to this site for a good laugh. Enjoy D.C., visit the Vietnam Vet memorial, give thanks to the thousands of patriots who died protecting the constitution that you disdain. I'm sure if you are an old lefty you probably spit on the ones that made it home. Kiss my ass.
oooh! I'm so hurt! You're a Christian, right? So what happened to the Golden Rule?
you're a coward. Deal with it. Any time you want to meet with me at any DC police station to discuss your grievances with me, let me know. In the meantime, I'll continue to speak truth to power, along with my fellow workers.
Leave me a personal message when you're ready to meet me face to face. I'm not holding my breath.
hi guys i thing that what you do is a great thing and you have a high degree of self's trust and this an essential thing to win and i Think that it is the time to Issue your newspaper in a very few pages that reflect your ideas opinion goales all you want to say .wishing god help you_ me and all the egyptians
Yeah sure... win what exactly??
Is there a list of demands of what we are requesting to gain the result that we wish to obtain from taking this stand? What terms can we submit to our representatives and legislatures? I have suggestions as I am sure everyone else does, it would be beneficial to compile all these suggestions and determine the best course of action. Put forth what we will and wont stand for. We can occupy wall street but the AMERICAN PEOPLE have to determine what WE are going to do with it.....
Fight the good fight I am overjoyed with the determination and unity of the american people. We are creating history and taking charge of a so called DEMOCRATIC government.
Taking "charge of" - that sound more scary that it looks. You call something "evil" by your definition and that gives you the RIGHT to take it over. Personally, I think your ideas are evil, can I take them over, p l e a s e.
We need to figure it out fast too. Maybe something will get done, but not if we dont have a list of things to get done.
Just as a side note, were not a "DEMOCRATIC government". Were a Republic. Democracy does not have representatives and legislatures. How we elect the representatives and legislatures, is a form of democracy, but thats where the democracy ends.
And, this has to be explained over and over again and again doesn't it. Maybe a free college education is needed in this country of ours after all. How about the right to repeat 8th grade over and over until you get it.
I have mixed feelings about free college. If the students dont pay, the tax payers do. Some how the teachers need to be paid, lights need to be turned on, A/C heatting, ect. But, tuition since I started has came close to quadrupling, while the expense to teach has gone up marginaly. Making college students pay some of the expense ( like $50/credit ) just so people don't take there education for granted, but can get affordable education.
If either of my kids doesnt get the information they need in 8th grade, there going to retake it.
Effing losers. It's already a bust and will fizzle out as cops bust some heads today. Go cops.
I actually have a 'home' located blocks from Zuccotti park, which i worked for nearly 30 years to be able to buy, after putting myself through law school. Much of your rhetoric is misguided and self absorbed. Your movement lacks leadership, focus and a clear message. Zuccotti park is not your 'home,' and you turned a public space into a dump. Many of you have been inconsiderate, and your actions have harmed local businesses owned by members of the 99%. Lastly, you don't need to make a public park your 'home' to create a platform for message. Martin Luther King, Jr. did not make the Lincoln Memorial his 'home," but he turned it into a platform to deliver a message that changed the world. Comparing your movement to the civil rights movement he championed merely proves that you have no grasp on reality.
You may not like the movement but you must Know the facts on the monetary system
1) This link explains How the money takes its birth and how it ends. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty8.htm
2) This Link Explains the Monetary Defect. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty9.htm
3) This Link Explains the monetary system on a whole. http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
4) This videos explains the fractional reserve banking and the more important inflation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAjOk_UY9I
5) Quotes of the famous persons on banking system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagHbRWh6MI
6) This video explains the history of bankers and the ones who fight against the bankers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
As a lawyer, you are in a very privileged position, and it behooves you not to talk down to those who don't have your education, your money, and your ability to remove yourself from the terrible hardships that your class has forced on many, many innocent people. I'm curious who your clients are, and to whom you devote your life's work--do they do anything to improve society?
Nothing is gained without sacrifice. You must be willing to lose everything before you can gain anything.
Read some of these posts from some asshole telling you how he was poor but he worked hard and now he's rich. 10% unemployment. Stop Trying to get through to these morons. They'll never get it. Time to stop taking and get busy!
This should be reworded to say it was inspired by the Arab Spring, and the movement was actually started in Spain. Stop taking glory for it America, yes we support you but don't paint it like it was all your idea, it was a universal concept. Also you have not even put in a plan for other nations that have been supporting you. Only focusing on your own government policy changes. How about Australia, and all the other countries that have been supporting you? We don't hear of any future plan with us by your movement. Where is our voices amongst these speeches that you so boldly give at these movements? Who represents us? And if its about free education as you mentioned, have you ever thought of getting UNESCO involved?
We no longer live in the era of Ghandi. Passive resistance can only work when there is a moral majority to step up for the oppressed masses and apply pressure to the oppresser. All these assholes understand is a club to their heads ... and since you have the numbers, you have more clubs! These fat corporate fucks sit in their ivory towers and laugh at your amateur signs. Time to get their attention!
it's just a wee bit worse than "income distribution is messed up" We are at a moment that taking its example from the Arab Spring has gone global. We are F* if we don't pull this off.
From a U.S. perspective, we are in the grip of a tyranny, a corporate tyranny that is little different from that which drove the colonists to open rebellion. In fact the only difference that I can see is that the colonists faced the tyranny of one corporation while we are confronted by several dozen. The bulwarks against corporatism have been torn down. The mechanisms that are employed against us are the same as 1745 and the outcome of increasing devastation of individual well being and the commons little different. This moment is unprecedented. Negativism does us little good. So sound the horns and sound them loud too much is at stake.
hey young people don't you know you are pawns for the ruling elite. look at history, lenin stalin hitler. the first people they eliminated was the very people that got them power. Once you achieve your goal of getting rid of what? capitalism ? america ? the rich ? wall st? cops ? sotherbys? federal reserve ? walmart ?...........don't you see how weird you look to average americans????? the only Awakening you have achieved is to make Americans see how colleges have brainwashed our youth. Wake up young people!!!!!
my message is quite simple and it has nothing to do with hyperbole, the berlin wall, or other highly academic concepts that escape the understanding of most of the 99% for whom the movement advocates. and i am certain i am merely reiterating the message the movement has heard time and time again, but as a supporter of the OWS cause, i want to see it succeed and therefore, i feel it necessary to repeat this point: the movement needs more than just complaints of exploitation and domination by 1%. if this movement expects any success and expects to see the same change inspired by the civil rights movement and other great movements before it, OWS needs to articulate clear, feasible and prudent demands. who is going to indict the nebulous "government" of which you speak and for what? who is going to indict "bankers" and again, for what? the movement needs specificity and it needs actionability. it is no question that the world has seen OWS and understands the proletariat outcry. but there is no substance to those demands. OWS isn't handing bills to Congress or bombarding their representatives' offices with petitions for specific change, such as impeachment of officers, at least not as far as the public eye can see. as a member of the public, all i can see is a group of people yelling on the capitol lawn and destroying mcdonald's bathrooms. why not look to truly successful and moving rebellion movements such as those that emerged from the jungles of chiapas in the 90s and early 21st century? subcomandante marcos wrote, "my job is to make wars by writing letters." (certainly, i am not saying OWS should incite a violent war, but an ideological war like the one that is already being waged.) the internet is a great venue for disseminating the OWS message, but only to a certain degree. do as marcos did and pepper every available media outlet with true stories about corrupt politicians, bankers with 4 and 5 homes and salaries through the roof, and specific, verifiable instances of human rights violations (they won't be hard to find in this country—start with our immigrant population). furthermore, include specific demands for reform—we want impeachment of senator X and Y or we want to challenge the constitutionality of law Z. give the OWS movement some real teeth. as a public, we need something more than a bunch of college hippies milling about public parks and "trading ideas" to get us riled up. currently, the media is making the OWS movement look like a group of homeless, tent city vagrants defiling city parks with piss and shit. OWS is much, much more than that and it is time that it uses its creative and peaceful spirit to take advantage of our current, albeit failing, democratic system. freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly...use it to ignite change. use their system against them. "an invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come." --victor hugo peace, love, and best wishes.
is this "common theme" you speak of capitalism? the idea that this country was built on? Those that work hard and are creative make money while the lazy ones (like you socialists) sit on your asses and look for handouts... If you all want change, go out and occupy congress, not wallstreet. Wallstreet will do whatever is in the legal bounds to make money. Nothing will change unless the law changes. If you guys were smart, you would have figured that out already... Then again, maybe your stupidity and ignorance is why you're all unemployed....
join #occupywallst2 we look for ideas and ways to make ows stronger
It's time to act : http://www.facebook.com/pages/When-this-group-reaches-10-000-000-people-BANK-RUN/294312343924506 This way we can break the system.
MASSIVE BANK RUN = NO MORE FRACTIONAL RESERVE = STOP BANKOCRATY : 2 collaborators of Goldman Sachs leading Greece and Italy is it Democraty ?
News article shows support for Occupiers in DC. But local politicians said Tuesday the city's law enforcement officials have more experience with keeping protests peaceful, and cited the need to protect the Occupiers' rights.
"I'm glad Mayor [Michael] Bloomberg is not running the District of Columbia -- we are more sensitive to the important expressions of freedom of speech," said Ward 1 Councilman Jim Graham, referring to the New York City raid. "I think as long as we have what a reasonable person would consider an orderly protest, I think it ... should be respected." On Tuesday most of the 13 council members went on record saying the protesters should be allowed to stay in McPherson Square and Freedom Plaza indefinitely.
Wake up OWS...You had a good run, but your destroying the movement by failing to completely support immediate occupation of the White House.. OWH Now!!
Wear a business suit tomorrow! This will confuse the cops, and the banker class. Carry a briefcase, fill it with shredded documents, and some liquid maalox,. .
It will only confuse people if you WEAR a business suit.... otherwise you will only locate one ;)
No worries... I'm guessing it will not "confuse" anyone if YOU "where" a business suit.
where to wear that suit. . perplexing.
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I have a job. You have no soul. Shame on you
A lot of the occupiers do have jobs; the one's who don't are the ones that decide to sleep in Zuccotti Park. Also, if you were really against the movement, I think you would have typed more than 3 words.
Better be careful. Cops are going to be busting heads soon. They are fed up with this.
Waddaya mean going to? Haven't you been keeping up with the news? Oh, by the by my dear soul, just how do you know what the cops are going to do? Have you evidence or are you merely full of sh*t?
Greetings from Denmark - http://anonkbh.dk/anontv/
People have protested infront of the cityhall of Copenhagen in Denmark for 31 days now, and people are bringing them food :-) So keep it up, we are all in.
How interesting that y'all named it after a Greek Marxist terrorist organization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Organization_17_November
do you know that the fascis is a roman word that means a Bound group of sticks. a thin strand of tread wrapped around the sticks is the only thing holding them together. and socialists are another bound group, and their ties are just as fragile.
Wow! Not happy I pointed that out, eh folks?
not happy? no. Not impressed? yes. How old are you?
I predict this protest will be the final straw that breaks the camel's back and OWS. Thanks all you jerks that have ruined a perfect opportunity to be heard and possibly make a difference. You have created nothing but mockery and irritation from the majority of the 99%. That is just how I feel and I am not a troll but a 64 years old woman that saw a glimmer of hope ... Oh well ...
You may not like the movement but you must Know the facts on the monetary system
1) This link explains How the money takes its birth and how it ends. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty8.htm
2) This Link Explains the Monetary Defect. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty9.htm
3) This Link Explains the monetary system on a whole. http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
4) This videos explains the fractional reserve banking and the more important inflation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAjOk_UY9I
5) Quotes of the famous persons on banking system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagHbRWh6MI
6) This video explains the history of bankers and the ones who fight against the bankers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
Karen, don't believe what you see on cable TV. I am a 63 year-old grandmother. Pay attention to the message and encourage those who are putting it forward. Shouldn't we expect it to be distorted? Haven't we lived through Swift Boating and Karl Rove. Don't give up. Talk to your friends and neighbors about the issues. Work for change in whatever way you can. We can't accept defeat. The future of democracy--the future of our planet is at stake. Why should people carry on with business as usual? Isn't it time for us to stop everything and work for change? Is what is being disrupted more important than this message? When is enough, enough?
11 Reasons Why Occupy Wall Street Protesters Are Hypocrites If They Do Not Call For Barack Obama To Resign
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/11-reasons-why-occupy-wall-street-protesters-are-hypocrites-if-they-do-not-call-for-barack-obama-to-resign
hey young people don't you know you are pawns for the ruling elite. look at history, lenin stalin hitler. the first people they eliminated was the very people that got them power. Once you achieve your goal of getting rid of what? capitalism ? america ? the rich ? wall st? cops ? sotherbys? federal reserve ? walmart ?...........don't you see how weird you look to average americans????? the only Awakening you have achieved is to make Americans see how colleges have brainwashed our youth. Wake up young people!!!!!
You may not like the movement but you must Know the facts on the monetary system
1) This link explains How the money takes its birth and how it ends. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty8.htm
2) This Link Explains the Monetary Defect. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty9.htm
3) This Link Explains the monetary system on a whole. http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
4) This videos explains the fractional reserve banking and the more important inflation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAjOk_UY9I
5) Quotes of the famous persons on banking system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagHbRWh6MI
6) This video explains the history of bankers and the ones who fight against the bankers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
You apparently are proud to have a job, and fortunately for you, yours hasn't been outsourced. So one has to be brainwashed to believe that the banks got away with fraud and downright theft, were bailed out, and now make huge bonuses? To believe that both the Democrats and Republicans are bought out by BiG Money, and so naturally vote in their interests, not ours? To believe that corporations aren't people, and their free speech shouldn't equal unlimited campaign contributions? That the government isn't deregulating scores of environmental protections so that the oil, gas, and coal companies can wring out the last bit of fossil fuel without regard for planetary degradation? That climate change is real and we should be planning to slow it? One has to be brainwashed to have a problem with these issues? Seriously? You began with a warning about dictatorships and the gullible masses who put them into power. I am worried about the gullible masses, thinking that elections truly operate on the basis of one person, one vote, those who keep our current leaders in power. If our leaders truly want to preserve democracy, why are we still waiting for campaign finance reform--public financing of elections? Truly: who is brainwashed?
When I think of a liberal I take a MAN and then I remove reason and accountability!
OWS get a life! do you know the wall street can trade at home? OK they must trade at the floor, so the 1% take a day off then, are they hurt from lost a day's pay? no they got vacation days, and they do hve more money then you can make in a life time(according to your statment). are you going to change anything? NO
occupywallstreet you don't have a clue how to debate with our government. our government is not scared of occupy. grow up. you people need some training, how about three years in the marine corp so you can grow some hair on your chest. you boys and girls need some real life experiences to fall back on. so far you haven't had to swim to the other side or die. life and death situations are much different from where you are today.
USCitizenVoter. GM. Your comment is very interesting, since it deals with a very personal point of view about what life is. It is interesting to note the over apretiation of the "Marine Corp" experience, to understand what the "real world is". I have the impression, that your argument, can be also translated to the "Marine Corp" person. I have my doubts, about his level of knowledge of the "Real World". If you really want to go far in your analysis, it is important for you, to question your own values. That is. Does, your values are for "real", or are they also recreated in the values of other people.
I have served in the military, many years ago. Today, I would not give from me a minute to live under the rule of someone, who may ignore how society works. The military "Experience", or the "life and death" situation, is just a role. On the other hand, there are people who draw, who write, or who drive a bus. There are others who create companies, and others who teach at schools or Universities.
All these social roles are relevant.
What this young people is doing in the United States, is really important. They are exactly trying to redesign the values of your/ their country.
The point is: If you think that the values of your society are perfect, you are a happy person. And it is good for you. I would have, however, my doubts about your criteria, since happiness, or conformity, don´t mean knowledge, or objectivity. On the contrary, I would say, that the system of values of the United States, require a relevant change, both, for the people of the US, and for the World. B. RRC.
I agree change is badly needed. eventually have to have real voters in large numbers to change, even at a slow pace. it can b done. already the conversations have changed. the last time taxes were this low for wealthy people was 1928/1929.
Mr. Anonymous Internet Tough Guy,
The point is to be present, to show that the policies enacted by Wall Street, through their lobbyists, do not have the support of the American people. The point is for all people of all different backgrounds to show up and show that Wall Street does not stand for us, and their actions stand against us.
If we're in a competition to be as uncivil as possible, then you are welcome to lead the pack. In the meanwhile, the rest of us are trying to conduct a civil society.
Wow! It took you three years to grow chest hair? Are you a man or a woman?
Just to let you know I spoke with a retired Marine with 22 years of service to our country. He fought in Vietnam plus he fought in Iraq. He is not getting your message and said he would have you charged first of all for taking over the park and hates how you have disrupted a cities livelyhood.. He thinks the only place occupy should protest is in front of government buildings like The Whitehouse in DC. Cry out for your civil liberties if someone is killed but forget about what happens in a jail cell. That news is old news and won't gain you any support. Just looks like lies when it is posted on the web site.
Clean up after yourselves while you’re at it. Every occupy site I have seen looks like a couple of garbage trucks exploded there. You are filthy pigs.
hey. call me a dirty nigg#@, call me a dirty jew, call me a diseased scum bag. it only energizes us. keep the vitriol coming! slaves have been the target hatred and distain for millenia. You can now add your name to the ranks of the haters.
I really do love all of you, I think you are the greatest people on earth. Just because "you are filthy pigs" (not my quote) does not mean that I am a hater. Please get too energizes over my comments, that was not the intent at all. Just stay calm.
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Wether in jest or to simply be incendiary, your comment is stuck in the history pages and can not be changed. Be proud of it, and own it. Wear it on your sleeve. Its the year 2011, and IP addresses exist.
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anon
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Homelessness is a bitch. Housekeeping while the cops are constantly disrupting you ain't easy. Lots of folks live just as bad, but behind closed doors.
And you would be the same as them if you would just close your doors. Have you no knowledge of how the world works. The last thing that the poor, hungry, homeless or anyone else needs is another person just like them. The people that you protest and would equalize down to your level, have more potential to help the world than you will ever imagine that you have. If it is not happening - try to make it happen and leave everyone happy afterwards. You simple shout to the wind and make everyone mad.
But why is the richest man in New York so intent on brutalizing people who are at most from your point of view, wrong headed, certainly not violent. Many of the people at OWS are themselves homeless and unemployed and have found a place where they can use their skills. By no means is income justly distributed. A Nobel physicist might make $100 K while a football coach at the same university makes millions. Where is the justice in that? Frankly, having been brought up a Christian, I just don't understand such mean spiritedness. Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple. If our world is our temple, it's about time we threw them out of there. BTW I'm 68 years old so if I have something to learn about how the world works, I guess I better hurry up.
Quit making excuses, that’s all you lazy fucks do.
Lots of folks whine. It doesn't have a lot to do with either one's politics or one's station in life. For example, the current crop of folks running for the Republican Presidential nomination are among the biggest whiners I've ever encountered in terms of having a lot of complaints and no solutions,
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much like our President, right...whining all the time that he has tried and tried and just can't get anything done...I would take any of the republican candidates over Obama, any day of the week.
I'm no fan of Obama, who is, after all, chairman of the board of the 1%, but the Republican candidates, give me a break. I know 12 year olds who know more about the world and foreign policy than they do. They should be a real embarrassment to any conservative. Have any of them ever even heard of Burke, Hayak or Buckley, much less read any of their stuff?
including Newt? or even Santorum (he's a little too religious for my tastes), but he's no dummy. I'm sorry, Gingrich has his baggage (which I personally don't give a shit about), but the man knows his history and knows Washington inside and out. It was he and Clinton together who balanced the budget in the mid-1990's. neither side got everything they wanted, but they were able to work together. I'm sorry Obama is in over his head and his team isn't helping him much either.
Don't think Obama is in over his head and I don't think any electable Republican would act much differently. After all, Obama isn't acting all that differently than Bush. They are really two wings of the same 1% party. I don't think they are necessarily stupid. The current Republicans candidates clearly don't know much about foreign policy, but that doesn't make them stupid. What they are, Republicans and Democrats alike, is incapable of thinking outside of the box of neo-liberalism. Maggy Thatcher said TINA (there is no alternative--to neo-liberalism) and it's become a self fulfilling prophesy--for them, at least. The Occupy movement and the tacit support it is getting represents a new tendency not to buy into that notion of inevitability. The utterly unnecessary levels of police violence are astonishing and not entirely understandable. Bloomberg said that press was not allowed access for their own protection, then cops proceeded to man handle and arrest journalists who took exception to that, not exactly a consistent position.
FREE EDUCATION - MY ASS. You can ask all you want, protest all you want, etc but I will not pay a penny more towards your upper class education if I personally have to destroy everything that I have worked by life to obtain or just give it those who deserve it a lot more than you do. I worked and paid for my childrens" upper class education and I expect you to do the same for yourself and your children. Enough is simply enought if that is all that this movement is about because as some of your protesters have made it very clear, with that Right comes the next Right which is to be given a good job by someone for the free education they received and on from there.
I think that you are totally mistaken about who is about to rise up. Civil society is not going to collapse as you wave you demands for more rights over their head. No one captured you and slapped a lot of debt on your head - that was your choice. No one forced you out of your homes, - that was your choice. You jerks are in our state protesting in a county with the 6th best air quality based on particulate matter count in the country and the 27 in the world. Who is running this show anyway. What an utter waste of your time and mine.
I think we can all agree that a "social contract" does exist between a society and it's responsibilities to its citizens. @ronjj you're just disagreeing with us on the stipulations of that contract. For example, as a taxpaying citizen I'm sure you agree that we are entitled to a judicial process, due process is a right after all that I'm assuming you support. You would support providing a lawyer to an accused criminal if he couldn't afford one, yes? In the same way we feel that our government has a responsibility to provide its people with education. You might have a valid point if we absolutely didn't have the money to do this, but the reality is we do. We just choose to spend it on other things like wars, and tax breaks for the wealthy. Providing free education in the long run is actually a financial investment for a government in it's own economy.
Why shouldn't wealthy business owners have to pay more taxes then everyone else? They benefit more from the roads and infrastructure that taxes go to build... when you benefit more from society you owe more back.
Because there ain't no such thing as a free lunch genius. Business doesn't pay the higher taxes you speak of. They pass them on to the consumer in the form of higher prices, which we all pay.
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NO, we are entitled to a judicial process by the Constitution not because we pay taxes - if your point was accurate, non-taxpayers would not have an access to the judicial system. There is a legal contract between a government and its citizens, not a social one. We are given merely a social contract as implied that the government will provide for certain things, number one being our protection as citizens from any foreign powers, our freedoms as outlined (speech etc.) And this is where be begin to differ, a social contract implies that the goverment must also provide welfare, social security, food, water, and on and on. The contract as I read it and understand it is that of providing the situation and the opportunity to where the social aspects can be obtained by the people and not provided solely by the government.
Education is a good example. The federal government is not mandated to provided a K-unlimited education for all its' citizens. This is a state's rights issue to begin with. The legal contract does not require such - the social contract exists at the State level and has always been implemented there closest to the need. Then all of a sudden, our goverment has decided that it is a social right, has set up a hugh department to administer that right and we have the shambles of todays educational system. I have no problem with the statement that the wealthy business owners have to pay taxes. Who determines that tax is not the issue. If it were, you would have to consider whether the traveling salesman uses the roads more that the CEO and tax accordingly
sounds like you've been listening to Elizabeth Warren who seems to think that a factory owner somehow owes society more because he needed the government to build the roads and police to protect his property. One problem though the factory owner pays the taxes (property and income) to help finance the roads and hire the police officers. its not a zero sum game. The factory owner pays taxes and hires employees, who, in turn, pay taxes. foolish argument to say the least.
Except in this case the factory owners aren't paying taxes...
The City University was free and quality for many years. Kids who score well on the Regents' Scholarship exam got a stipend to boot.
This country once did great and good things.
You can still get good grades and receive grants and scolarships. You were saying?
Yes, some of the top students get scholarships. Back then though it was free for everyone who made it into CCNY, Brooklyn College, etc. Being saddled with student debt was virtually unheard of. And Wall Street has been chieseling and "making off" with university endowments.
My point still stands, While you have made none.
Nope, wrong. Cost of education has far outpaced cost of living. Now you have hundreds of thousands of college grads stuck with loans they can't repay and lives that can't get started. In the old days higher education was available for free, no charge, gratis. As the crisis unfolds, as Europe implodes taking everything down with it more and more debt of all kind will be unpayable. Capitalism has hit the wall.
Yes a wall of idiot kids taking loans they cant pay back, my point still stands btw.
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lol If that rant was an example of what 'upper class' Education does, then I am definitely in favour of as much 'free' Education as can be paid for... deary me...
You STILL cannot read and understand a simple rant can you?? How pathetic, and I am not in a lol situation regarding you. Having been in education all of my life - I only shed a tear. Your words of reply speak loudly of your need for a lower level of education before you even qualify to ask for a higher one.
When you wake up, please check what I wrote again. That was me speaking and I did not mention any of my education being involved in this discussion though for your information, I did complete kindergarten and sandbox technique.
If you missed that day, I suggest you get a cat - they make good teachers. Deary, deary,me.
Well I am sorry if I annoyed you, although I suspect that much of your annoyance is self generated. I am proud to say that I am 'Self Educated' but I don't make a virtue out of that. My Family did not have the money to pay for an Education. I had to Work instead. However, I am not one of those people who begrudge the younger people what I was unable to have myself. I do not see any good in maintaining a 'reserve army of unemployed' just to keep Wages Low and Corporations Rich. I would Love to see everyone in a Job and would not resent the fact. This attitude of 'I had it tough, so you should too' is not a good one. There was no such thing as 'Kindergarten' where I lived. Nobody could have afforded 'Nursery Education'. I had a Mother and Father , who seemed to be a reasonably effective substitute. I prefer a good honest dog, rather than a cat. In fact, I never seem to really get on with 'cat people'. If you write on Forums, you have to get used to the 'cut and thrust'. Don't take things to heart. I am a serious person but cannot resist a bit of a joke now and then. I did not really mean to get you so mad but if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen !
Quite the contrary - I was already awake, you did not annoy me at all. And yes, I cannot fully identify the source of some of my annoyance. Possibly, a little arises when someone takes my very plain English and distorts it in a public forum then proceeds to lecture me about what is wrong with me. This is not really the "cut and thrust" that you mention - it is more likely some type of ego elitism stab in the back..
Perhaps some of it comes from am attempt to wipe out all virtue in our society in favor of the government deciding what is virtuous. Perhaps it is the fact that I would like to see everyone in a job too, but seeing people assume that the only way there is more education at the cost of the society which only expands the spread between the rich and the poor. Perhaps it is the continuing efforts to tear down what exists rather than building on what is based on the very realization that in all of mankind's history, the only proven and reverified means of moving people from proverty is Capitalism, no other system having proven that it can do so. Perhaps it is the thought that among all the "angels flapping their wings" there is really no one that I would trust to reorganize thesociety that I live in today and I don't even trust you to do that. Perhaps it is just a "burr under my saddle" that is spooking the horse but I really don't think that is the case either. Perhaps it is the people that protest assuming that because they choose to sleep in a park, that that in of itself, consitutites what your describe as "I had it rough therefore........" while dining on catered meals. Perhaps it is a forming realization that the government is maintaining this "reserve army of unemloyed" for some unspoken reason having nothing to do with what is rational. Perhaps is it the realization that the heat is not the product of the "kitchen" but rather somone breathing down my back at every move I make, lurking to throw some poison into the stew I am making, cutting off the gas to my stove, the electricity to my lights. In some cases, I don't know - but what I do know, is that this annoyance is not going away however I rationalize it.
'mer' ?
Is that some sort of 'Americanism' that I am not familiar with ? Sorry, don't 'get it'. I do not have the benefit of your 'Education' ...
My education is not in the area of computer operation. You hit the wrong button and "poof", everything is gone and you are on another page, with no button to click on to find out where you were or who you were even talking to. And now, my 'mer' error has floated away too. Sorry, I have a lot more knowledge before me than I have knowledge of how to use it. If nothing else remember that last statement.
"we can have too much knowledge and NOT enough knowledge to apply it"
True. That could be what is wrong with the OWS Movement at the moment. They Know that things are Not Right but do not yet have the Knowledge to Know what to Do about it. Anyway - I wish you no ill will - you are entitled to your opinions and to express them. I hope that this remains the case because there are those who would wish to suppress all dissent - forever.
And it is eveyone's responsible to protect that right within the many many legal means we have to do so.
mer - psst - it's back. Smile, Dennis, it is a great time to be alive.
You may not like the movement but you must Know the facts on the monetary system
1) This link explains How the money takes its birth and how it ends. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty8.htm
2) This Link Explains the Monetary Defect. http://www.michaeljournal.org/plenty9.htm
3) This Link Explains the monetary system on a whole. http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
4) This videos explains the fractional reserve banking and the more important inflation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAjOk_UY9I
5) Quotes of the famous persons on banking system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagHbRWh6MI
6) This video explains the history of bankers and the ones who fight against the bankers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
So, because you were blinded and coerced to pay for an education (information which should not be denied nor restricted to anyone -- how else would we collectively grow as a humanity?) you feel that everyone else should too. You are a clear example of "the blind guiding the blind." People are out there fighting for you, not in a battlefield of arms and blood orchestrated by the so called 1%, but rather in one of peaceful action, and the best you can do is put them down -- how ironic. It is an ideal that will relieve you and all of an abuse of power from just a handful of individuals in the entire planet who say they "work hard" to achieve what they've gotten and make you believe the same with their bombardment of false propaganda. For this I'll give you the "my ass."
But you can go right ahead and keep on working harder with two or three jobs over your back because that's the "noble" thing they've made you believe so that the few who "own" what doesn't belong to them can continue getting "richer."
You get yourself out there and do something about the situation instead of continuing to support the abusers of power; that'll just make you one them. The rest of us, the 99%, have already way overpaid our dues and now it's time to get back what belongs to us all. If you don't want it don't take it, but how dare you try to stop others from claiming what's theirs? Education is a business nowadays, not a service....get that. Same with all else, health, food, shelter, etc.....you call this heathy? I call this a crime! Nobody should EVER have to pay to be healed; that is a human right!!! Insurance companies? There's another "my ass." and a big one!! Food? How dare you starve others when there's plenty?? Shame!!!!!!
You go ahead with your little antiquated "you got to work for it," for that is exactly what this few individuals so called the 1% want you to say repeatedly like a robot.
Work, we all are going to work alright. In fact, isn't that what we all have been doing anyway? But one thing is for sure, not anymore than this abusers of power, not any more than what it's really required for a life of enjoyment in this incredible planet in which we all are born.
Why fight against your own freedom? I just don't get it. The only thing i can see is that you are either asleep, hypnotized by false propaganda, or that you simply are one of the few who don't truly understand, neither care, as to what is going on out there in the real lives of many.
Just remember, if you think this system will prevail you will be in for a surprise, because in no time this whole thing will implode as its not self sustainable.
They call it recession, I call it monopoly.
Neither are you. Neither are you. None of us are or ever will be self sustainable. Sorry to break your bubble. Nothing you write or say is about anything other what what you will do, no "in my opinion" or allowances for any other ideas or any other greater ways to look-solve the problems of this society. You sound just like my Mother used to when I was a child. You make great pronouncements about how dumb and suckered everyone is that does not agree with you. And call the the 99% the "rest of us",when that is really a "power stroke" to your ego and nothing more - and Ford Motor Company already has that in their lineup of slogans. I was not blinded or coerced to pay for my education. I simple chose to do so. If your education consists in its entirely of your approach to life as you state above - the only thing that I have to offer is "ask for your money back" I did not accept every penny of student aid available - I only accepted that which was required and reasonable and that which I knew I could repay at the salary that I would look for when I got out of college. No one owed me any more and I did not ask for anymore. Just like it is my being "blind leading the blind" that I do not think you have the right to demand a free education and all the frills that go along with it. I wasn't too proud to walk or to ride a bicycle to class. In my opinion, if you drive a car-any car, eat all prepared food, and do not have a job while in college - you do not have the right to have your hand in my pocket for your wants. I have one job and and no one owns me - and I will certainly fight to see that YOU do not own me either. And you can talk all you want about getting out there and doing something about the situation. I live in the Southwest and we did something about a governor that thought that his main purpose in life was to give everyone whatever they wanted including himself - until he had depleted every available penny available in the state to fullfil his grand themes of "you would be a lot better off if you would let me.....BS" If you don't think that you have to work for it - exactly who do you think should pay for your free education - we have now mortgaged our country to the point that we are maxed out, we have taxed until we are maxed out, and what little the big banks and CEO's have wouldn't last 6 months if you took all they have. So what is your source for more to support you sorry ass. So my idea of a life of enjoyment is picking up trash on the beach in Maui, what is yours?? And it better not be anything better than mine or equality is out of sight for both of us. I am fully ignorant and I fully admit that. I have never been able to understand a person like you, I really don't stress to do so, and I definitely find your ideas rather juvenile-having the actual experience of working with juveniles for a large portion of my life. It really doesn't make any difference how you package them, if your "IDEA" package is tied up with the hot button words and claims you use in your post - it is probably just another White Elephant anyway and I got enough of those for you and your friends.
Get your sorry ass over to a greece or britain they will go broke giving you everything you want and everyone is happy.
If the planet is self sustainable without our destructive intervention, so are we automatically by default; if only we stop misbehaving like spoiled brats that have it all and have not been taught how to appreciate earth and its natural riches. And that is exactly what these entities responsible for abusing the planet's resources to the degree of destruction are being summoned for; for their continuos corruption by selling back to the masses products packaged out of the expense of not only the resources that are so imperative for our survival and that pertain to all, but also at the cost of everyone being compromised from their given environment in which they are born.
See, what we are talking about is something much bigger than what we are capable of doing or not doing as a people in a manmade systematic structure. We are talking about RESPONSIBILITY as a species toward nature, toward earth, humanity's home, our food supply and shelter...basic needs for any species.
There are vast devastated areas such as entire destroyed or crumbled mountains as well as unnecessary contaminated rivers and oceans. If this is not a crime, a rape, then I am not sure how it is that you perceive life on earth when in fact all resources are here to provide for us all and not to be held back from anyone. Water is being sold...when did this begin? And it gets packaged in plastic bottles made with cancerous chemicals...what is this? Who is selling us the clean water that's for the use of all? Is it perhaps the same industries that contaminate them in the first place via deforestation and destruction of surroundings? I guarantee you that if you do a little bit of research, thorough research, you may find facts that no news stations will provide you with. Look into the farm industries and discover how they are literally contaminating our waters by the outrageous over-production of animals and their waste (see www.earthlings.com narrated by Joaquin Phoenex, as just a tiny example). There are seeds being taken away from small farmers around the globe so that they cannot reap their crops more than once, therefore put under the control of those who have made themselves the "patten holders." Of course, the big corporations intimidating all across the board regardless of the nature of their business. If you cannot see the crime in that, then i believe our reasoning may need not be extended furthermore.
For goodness gracious, isn't it even comical that wild animals know how to live on earth while us, humans, with the ability to think the way we do, and with the anatomy that allows us to function the way we do, haven't learned how to make a better experience for ourselves? Our behavior has been totally suicidal, and if we don't face this simple fact in literally urgent fashion, we'll only continue to add stress to the already saturated environment. Our behavior is literally cancerous, and then we wonder why we obtain such cells in our own bodies. Interesting...
These protests are more about survival than getting "free stuff." This is not about a free ride whatsoever. It is clearly understood that nothing in one's existence gets done unless action is taken. So working to accomplish intentions and duties will never be out of the equation. We are a "being" and "doing" species, so working is not only in us, but also a necessity to survive. What we are talking about here is working smart and fairly, with principle and motives of moral. These outrageous salaries and "wealth" that the commonly known "owners" of exaggerated and disproportionate possessions -- give me a break, even islands...islands(!); how can anyone own an island(?), have made of this planet nothing short than a prostitute. And it's time to not create a socialism, not a communism, not a democracy, not whatever political disguise in which we might want to hide behind to find excuses to not be responsible for our own actions individually and together, but to use our intelligence and make of this planet a decent home for everyone; for ALL species! It is also their right!! It's time for a responsible humanity and a conscious stewards.
NOT out of your pocket, as you said, for not your pocket nor anyone else's should EVER have to pay for others' needs. There is enough for all; for everyone! Isn't there enough for the wild animals, and the plants, and insects?
Let's get smart and be practical here. Perhaps my reasoning might not match yours, for like you and most of us, my facts are also permeated through the channels by which I and all are able to become as informed as we can. So my intention here is not to argue or debate with you, but to rather focus on a common thread through which we may find a way to see past material limitations, which can only offer limited perceptions. Let us not get confused by desires over needs. It is the insatiable desires that keep feeding the empires upon which only a few benefit -- and so they think! After all, if everyone doesn't benefit, then ultimately no one does.
You should start by being responsible for yourself.
"information which should not be denied nor restricted to anyone"
I don't get it? How is a college degree being denied exactly?
What I mean is, college should be a service for the growth of the people and not deprived by some sort of financial mechanism. It is outrageous the amount of student debt out there. Total manipulation. Some people cannot even fathom to go to college for that matter. It's a complicated topic, but if we were to use common sense, it all trickles down to limiting resources as a result of making necessities a business instead of a necessity for humanity.
Necessities should not be a business. I am sure we are sufficiently intelligent to create a collective system in which through the participation of all, given the opportunity (therefore the protests) we could safely walk into a hospital and not get billed ridiculous amounts of money; not get billed at all(!); or a college or university and also be charged outrageous amounts of money. Certainly slavery in desguise. We just don't see it because it's what's supposed to be "normal." but I hope in my heart that for the benefit of all we may wake up soon and see that we can do much better than what we got going in this system that benefits not so much the masses as it does just a small percentage of people in the planet.
We're talking not only about the States here, I think at this point it is clear that this monopoly game from those responsible for these corrupted systems is a worldwide problem; and they're all connected somehow through their little gambling game they call "stock market." The States is just one of their spots, but certainly their Center known as Wall Street.
That's how education is deprived. Not in the apparent surface - that they've done a pretty good job at keeping everyone paying without questions asked; only complaints. Everyone i know and that has gone to college has been left with debt... debt to whom? Who's collecting it? Maybe these are questions we might want to be addressing and see what "accounting" has to say. The water is getting too warm and the time is near to get out of the pot before you get cooked.
Once again, I am sure we are intelligent enough to make our societal services much more practical and less of a just a handful of people in the world running the show. I think we had enough of that.
Thanks for asking!
"You go ahead with your little antiquated "you got to work for it," for that is exactly what this few individuals so called the 1% want you to say repeatedly like a robot."
What are you getting at here? Are you indicating that it is wrong for someone to work hard for wealth? Or are you saying one should be able to become wealthy without working? So you are better than me? Wtf do you mean?
Of course I'm not better than you. And so isn't anyone over another. It is not wrong to work hard to achieve one's goals, quite the contrary. What has become wrong is the disproportionate misbalance through which some benefit at the expense of the masses. Be rich, but not at the expense of others' hard work and sweat over two or three jobs so they can barely subsist and pay the rich their little toys while mostly not even their own needs! You cannot convince me that there isn't something off there when there's plenty of abundance being thrown as garbage in the planet's oceans. That's a totally different ballpark right there; that's a crime toward humanity via pollution and destruction of our air and waters.
All I can say is, why resist a noble cause? Afterall, what harm can these people do when all they are saying is something that can benefit all at the end of the day. That I find pretty amusing... Let them practice their right, perhaps there's something there for us all to learn. At least somebody is questioning the system. How else would we grow? Or should we all just stay submissive to what's been imposed? Even if they are wrong in certain things or everything, why can't we just let them practice their rights? These are people holding peace signs and talking about loving communication for god's sake; meanwhile others support police abuse. Talk about a crime! And talk about ignorance at its core. Why support violence over people holding peace signs and practicing their right, even if you don't agree with them...
Seen and heard it all before. All the nice pretty packageing to hide the same filth. You know your not the first one to use these exact same methods right? Im sure your buds around you think your a genius and all that, but most americans see right through it, and they are tired of it.
"Are you saying one should be able to become wealthy without working" you make it sound like that is impossible. It isn't the difficult; but you need a lot of money to do it; and it helps if the government won't tax your capital gains because it thinks you might actually create jobs.
Basically, if you have massive amount of money, and a little bit of common sense, it is extremely easy to make it multiply. The problem is getting to the point, which is why the deck is stacked toward the rich. A human being needs only so much to survive, and with enough $$$ in investments, your returns will easily surpass in a month what a working stiff makes all year... no work real required.
Never ceases to amaze me how greedy people are. Do they not teach sharing in American schools?
No one asked the banks to over extend their positions so far they had to beg for government hand outs either; but I don't see any conservatives whining about however many trillion dollars that was. That money could have forgiven all the student debt in America over about 10 times.
Drop the drug war. There boom, all kinds of money for Education.
I should run for President... :p
Apparently you got taught the kind of sharing where you just take it if the person wont give it willingly.
A witty response; but I didn't actually say that now did I? Personally I like to share, if I had a small fortune you can bet I'd be funding all kinds of social causes, and no I don't mind paying higher taxes. Actually, I live in Canada; so I do pay higher taxes.
My point was simply, that the American government prefers to spend tax dollars (and China's money) on bombs and narcotics agents and prisons and bank bailouts... and etc. When it could be helping its own citizens instead; its a question of national priorities, not necessarily higher taxes.
"no one asked the banks to overextend". You gotta be freaking kidding me! The whole housing bubble was driven by a-holes like Barney Frank pushing banks to loan to anyone who wanted a home even if they couldn't afford it.
ronjj, it sounds to me that you are quite happy getting screwed by Wall Street and Capital Hill, I'm very sad for your children because there Father is a moron.
What you don't know won't hurt you - so please stop telling me what hurts me - it is becoming a real pain to my other end.
Yes, if I could catch that moron, I would let you have your way with him, and that of the Wall Street and Capital Hill gangs too.
So you are opposed to K-12 public schools? They didn't always exist. That they do now does suggest some advance in civilization. When land grant colleges were first organized they were tuition free. That that is no longer the case is a social loss. Once upon a time virtually all roads were private toll roads. That we can travel on freeways today is another aspect of the advance of democracy.
Give me a break RedJazz43. You are just blowing smoke. I have yet to drive on any toll road in America, and yes I have driven on a lot of them, that were not FAR FAR superior in quality and safety to any of your Free Ways. You definitely need fresh aid Red.
If this is the advance of Democracy that you proclaim and the example that you set us as THE one. Pathetic. Here's a dollar, take a drive.
Some of the finest universities in the world are some public universities in America--Berkeley, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc, and they're also places where the strongest Occupy movements are springing up--not exactly a coincidence I'd say.
Wish I could get a free ride to one of those public universities. The only place I can get a free ride is to my community college (a pretty good deal in my opinion-and sadly (smile) no protesters hanging around to mess up a great situation for all. I know, I should be out there at that college protesting something just to help my ego and create somekind of utopia for someone somewhere. Go ahead and protest - then remember that your cited universities" research facilities are probably the reason that a lot of those big bad corporations exist today and the MBA's that those universities put out are probably the CEO's of those corporations.
So the very thing that promoted this growth of corporations is now the target of our anger. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM My suggestion is for each of you to stop protesting and set up a total boycott of each university so that they will not longer produce those big bad CEO's (expemption provided for those in the M or D program in "how to become a big bad CEO)
The amount of money people earn has very little to do with their social worth. A nobel prize winning physicist would be lucky to clear $100 K at a major university while a winning football coach can make millions.