Last Day To Get Your Stuff Back
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 9:50 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
If you were present when the NYPD attacked Liberty Square (Zuccotti Park) in the middle of the night to raze our encampment and destroy our homes, today is the last day the city is willing to return the personal possessions they stole.
Date/Time
Date(s) - 18 Nov 2011
8:00 AM - 4:00 PM
Location
Manhattan District 7 Garage (Map)
650 West 56th St.
Manhattan, NY
Tips From The Screen Printing Guild
NYC Sanitation facility is 650 West 56th St near 12th Ave, nearest train is Columbus Circle/59th St.
They said everything wasn’t ”processed” yet, and more would be out Thursday morning. Half of that warehouse was inaccessible and full of stuff from the park when I was there 4pm Weds. (We’re still looking for our squeegees, industrial spray bottles, and the Tshirt blanks. And the big flat box of foam core.)
SO – you write a list of what you’re looking for before they let you in. Be specific in a general kind of way — “bin of art supplies”, not “chalk and brushes” so you have flexibility. You climb three flights of stairs to get to the warehouse, although there’s an elevator in the next building that they let me use for the two tables and big bins I reclaimed. There’s lots of empty bins — pretty much everything has been separated from its container as far as I can see. I found if you talk to the workers enough, and then talk to their supervisors and then talk to their supervisors, you can get by without receipts and they get used to the idea that this is your stuff that you are entitled to retrieve.
The place is open 8a-4p Thurs/Friday but get there by 3ish or they won’t let you in.
If you’ve got something out of the ordinary to find, werq that room. They are all in the Sanitation union, not cops. Talk to people working there, persistent, friendly, calm, and endlessly persistent. Our silk screens appeared where the guys I was talking to were standing, and I’m pretty sure I would have noticed them the first time I walked by..or maybe I was just tired.
You need picture ID, which they check repeatedly against the name/address/phone you wrote on your form. They do not xerox your ID and they do not take your picture. They take a picture of your stuff before you leave. Get your zen together before you go, you’ll need it. xo
I have a friend with a pickup truck parked at Pratt — it’s stick (which I don’t drive) and another friend w a minivan available Friday 3p to do a run 56th Street to downtown. A cab from that facility down to Wall Street is around $30 in traffic – a car service quoted us $60. If you’d like in on a group move, let me know. There were quite a few FOLDING TABLES and POWER TOOLS that were not broken, for instance. There are a lot of tarps, put them on your list. A guy got back his loaded full backpack, with his original locks still on it.
And another note: You do not need ID if you tell them it was taken. Write it on your itemized list. They also have forms to fill out for losses & damages to property.
I am sure that none of the people commenting here are multimillionaires, and are therefore part of the 99%. It is not easy to sleep in a park when you have other options--and most of the wall street protestors did. They were there to make a point. Show some respect. Attack the 1% not the 99%.
Thank u for your comments. This will not be an easy struggle. In history books of the future, it will be the equal of the Revolutionary War. It will have its own George Washington and its own version of the Battle of Trenton, won by the Continental Army in 1776. Bloomberg and others of his kind (phew! The totalitarian stench from that crowd is disgusting!) will become the equivalent of King George III in future history, even if I have to write it myself. Peace and Justice to all!
The Occupy Movement is so far doing everything right. Changes and progress come by organizing and hard struggles :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cdSoMbwTA4
Also read my article "The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom" where I give my thoughts on where we should go from here
"In this possibly terminal phase of human existence, democracy and freedom are more than just ideals to be valued - they may be essential to survival." -Noam Chomsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws
This is what democracy looks like!
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided
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You simply cannot write one manual for "change and progress" Maybe if you are remodeling a WalMart store, but this is a very confined business. Your "hard struggles" come about because you createy our own enemies from your own ignorance.
So far you have made life very difficult for the true 99% who live in NYC, who are trying to get our kids to school, get ourselves to work and feed our families. Please have some concern for the many people you are hurting through your barbaric methods, which have little to do with the ends.
So far you've helped make life awesome for the true me--who is definitely one of the 99%.
queenann, one reason they are doing this stuff is so that your kid doesn't grow up and have to be a servant that eats scraps.
My kids are going to school and will be skilled & educated.... And have a work ethic. If you want to eat scraps you can.. We will be working and putting food on our table...and a roof over our heads.
If it weren't rigged I would say your kids getting an education and having a good work ethic would pretty much guarantee them being able to buy good food and a nice house, but if things keep going like they have been going you're kids may have PHDs and be willing to work their butt's off and still have no job.
Life's a gamble....we are doing all we can to provide for our future. I don't and never have expected big brother to watch out for me...or take care of me.. Paid off all my own college loans, have lived within our means. No whining about how I got a raw deal...That's a waste of time.
If I whined I apologize.
You're going to have a lot of trouble feeding your kids if business continues as usual. Remember the great depression? Even rich people lost all of their money and that will be nothing compared to what we go through if the derivatives market collapses. Whether you like what's happening or not we're at a place in our country where we have to take a step backwards in order to take two steps forwards. Reality.
I haven't been going backward... One foot in front of the other. Slow and steady does it every time.
I wasn't referring to you personally, but to our country as a whole. I really respect that you've been able to work hard and take proper care of your family in these difficult times. Try to empathize with those less fortunate, unable to provide properly for their families, and it's not because they're lazy
I do empathize... I don't think your methods are appropriate.
The destruction, chaos, extra $$$ for nypd, inconvenience for locals and the sordid tales that were coming out of Zuccotti park, leads me to believe I being part of the "99%" will find other ways to express my opinions and excercise my choices. You can not tell the actual 99% how to behave.
I agree with some of what you're saying, but the fact that it costs extra $$ for NYPD is really a non-issue. There is no price for free speech it's a constitutional right, even if it drives our economy to complete bankruptcy (which I am of course not advocating). Also, no one is forcing the city to spend as much money as they are on police, there's seriously more cops out there than protesters half the time. Keep working hard and providing I'm glad to hear that things are well with your family
wait till the city state and feds pay court costs then the civil rights violations lot of $
Thanks..have a good evening.
But, from what I read, I thought you wanted the rich people to loose all of their money. This just does not make sense. I was trying to get business to continue as usual so the rich would be brought down - now you tell me that the 99% would have to go down along with the 1%. This sounds like another LOSE-LOSE situation. Your reality scares me.
The reality of our situation is scary. That's why we have to figure out real solutions.
Overyone has to lose in order to restart this country. We have to press the reset button so everyone has to start in equal footing. Fiat money is a fraud. That should be the #1 goal of wall street. Money is the root of all evil. We choose honest money.
Thank you smith - But just one thing - The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money is neither bad or good in and of itself. It is how you earn, use, distribute, save, give, etc etc MONEY that determines evil and good. There are unlimited numbers of degrees within the MONEY chain. Who is more evil, the man with 3B$ that does nothing to better society or the man with 3M$ that does nothing.
The richest or the rich do not give money away because their barns are full and there is no room to build more. They are motivated by some other force - call it "honest money" or whatever. When it is all said and done, they will still be rich, we are not talking about the woman giving her last penny here.
This is why you get a nasty reply from some posters if they think you are trying to promote yourself into the money pot.
So one day of struggle is not worth freeing you of your shackles as a slave?
Interesting.
How many years have you been conditioned into being a servant of money?
You haven't noticed that you are now working more hours for less pay?
You missed the fact that your nest egg got trampled on by those who don't care if your life turns to shit while you struggle to preserve your dignity?
Just one day of "inconvenience" and you whine and moan?
Drop your shackles and march with those who care about your future.
Your boss couldn't care less about your future.
You're kidding yourself if you believe any different.
I have to feed and clothe my kids...and pay for tuition.I am preparing for the future by educating my children, teaching them values, morals and a work ethic.
Builder - great day where I am, the open spaces are alive with people doing their thing, hikers on the trails, people raking leaves, shoppers in WalMart,( most paying CASH and walking out with full carts of stuff for their families), kids all over the place, the community college getting ready for their gift to the community day in December which will include tons for food donations to help the hungry during the coming year in these rough economic times, people getting lunch ready at the shelters for those that can't provide for themselves today, the parks and open spaces full of families on outings and kids playing on playground equipment in each, a couple of hippies protesting all of this, and the rest of us wondering why they don't just join in to enjoy the blessing of this land of the free.
Are you a communist? Your rhetoric sounds just like it.
LOL.
Anything but.
How you deduce communistic slants from the above is quite humourous to me.
Has it been a while since you've realised your own freedom of choice?
If I am a communist (just because you say I sound like one) I am a damn happy one - and - I am well down in the ranking of the 99% you praise all the time, probably well below the 50% line of the 99%.
I don't kid my self or you. I can go where I want to go, when I want to go, make as much or as little as I want to, live in a mansion or a hogan, chew tobacco or smoke a fine pipe, be a politician or vote for one or none. Man, I have so many freedoms it is like a giant banquet. Loving every minute of it too. PS-If you want to talk about it sometime, I have an EQUAL number of responsibilities and that is another giant banquet.
it may not be easy, i think we have no choice how about 1 yr terms for senators and reps2 yr for the pres NO consecutive terms
Are you shitting me? Comparing yourselves to the Revolutionary War is sickening. 50,000 American Military casualties and the fight for our freedom in no way compares to entitlement kiddies bitch-camping in a public park.
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You'll be writing that yourself, alright.
What a drama queen. OWS the equal of the Revolutionary War??? Puh-lease. Get over yourself already.
it is way better than the revolutionary war...get on board
Hey, everyone needs a little excitement in their lives. My GGGGrandfather didn't die in the Revolutionary War though, just for the fun of it. He died so that you can post on here today, Please thank him.
I thank your GGGGrandfather for the sacrifice he did and because he remembers us that "those who sacrifice freedom over security deserve neither".
for sure, i thank him and all the others many others, people have been fighting and dying for freedom a long time....no joke ows has more potential than any movement to date--it's in the eyes of the beholder, the whole world is watching...
AND, I would bet that a majority of the "whole world" is not watching for us to be successful. THAT is the problem. That very potential, ill used, can make America the laughing stock of the WHOLE WORLD.
If the only thing that comes of this is free education and a lot of trashed banking offices, whats the point?
we are a laughing stock spoiled too we did have world class shoppers
occupy can and really must bring about some kind of change as the situation that w left was the biggest mess yet
I'll get on board, with anyone ready to fight against OWS.
not against ows
The Revolutionary War had a purpose-one purpose unified the 13 states (not that there was not opposition from the supporters of the English) BUT once that purpose was clearly stated, the people of the land had a clear choice to make.
The only choice you offer is whether to support planting vegetables in Z Park, addressing the cost of education, killing the big bankers, giving everyone everything they want. and on and on. Please give me one topic and I will let you know whether you have my support or not.
Dont think in absolutes , it's not about giving or taking of money from one class or another , cause it will be no more then a theft as the comunist regime proved . It's about a vision and a better future for us and our children . And btw , one of the main causes of the Revolutionary War was the refuse of the Brittish Empire to let the colonies use their debt free money , and not money lended by the empire that came with interest. We all know what happened to the Brittish and it wasnt pretty :). See Zeitgeist the documentary or The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein to understand what we stand for ;-) .
Give me a few resources of people with their feet on the earth, please.
:)) nice one . We are Earth , open your eyes and comprehend that the true problem today , besides the lack of oil , is our clime and weather is geting worse and worse every passing year , because of the smoke that oil makes . And oil=money=the blood of economy, and backwards , but i hope that a change will come soon cause we ,as a race, are on a crash course with Earth . So in the end do as you wish man , but first understand and then judge . Peace friend ;)).
ClericTGLAM-I understand fully. We are earth - but if I was betting on it, I would bet that Earth will be here long after we are gone. And that "lack of oil" is very questionable too, as we have untapped and probably undiscovered reserves right here in River City that one cannot tap for one reason or another. And it may be sorta like the "lack of food" thing. We have piles of food laying out in Kansas - can't get it to the world fast enough, they can't handle it, and they can't get it to their people who need it - sometime they just don't want to take a chance on those bullets flying around overhead.
I'll give you the one on "the smoke that oil makes" but I'll be very relunctant to do so. Just a matter of sematics and word understanding and I think I understand what you meant by the word "smoke". Your last sentence is either a call to fight it out or a condemnation of what I posted asking for a few more resources of information. My friend Ray is part Indian and even he doesn't fully understand your, We are Earth mantra though I think he might be closer than either of us.
Probably he is closer , and yes the Earth will be here ,but without us , the monetary sistem and the greed it produces will in time destroy us and our Home . They evicted thousands of people in this crysis , what next ? And what will hapen when the oil runs out ,and it will ? I got a hint ... total war . As epic inventions on free energy, like the ones of Nicola Tesla, are suppresed and eliminated over and over again for profit , i hope for a transition instead of a fight with ourselves .
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Kill fiat money. Money is the root of all evil. If we kill fiat money most of our problems wil be resolved.
I do not agree. LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil. Money does not kill (well, unless you work at the Government Printing Office and then you want to watch about standing under pallots of it handing from a boom crane.
When is Occupy going to attack the 1% who are at the core of the problem? Obama, Biden! Pelosi, Kerry, and their fellow corrupt & greedy politicians? THEN, I will stand with you. Everything else is just whining...
So what you are saying is that the republicans are not corrupt? I'm sure if you dug deep into your brain you could come up with some other names... Oh.. here's an entire list: http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/mostcorrupt
I’m relatively new to the “trying to figure out what’s going on” scene but I don't think the problem is the "republicans” or the "democrats”, it is the corruption within our government. Frankly I would love to see genuine debate and deliberation between the people on “the hill” as justly representative of our country as a whole. Real people have passionate disagreements; see things in a different light with different perspectives and from different experiences. As such our lawmakers and policy makers are intended to devise proposed solutions to the problems that we face together as a nation. Not only is it imperative, I think it is healthy to have these conflicting points of view because it nurtures the kinds of compromises and ultimately meaningful solutions that ‘represent’ our country as it was designed to! But it is impossible to have anything truly useful and edifying to humanity when the moral values of our electorate are compromised by greed, power and all those nasty things that manifest when not kept in check. The elected positions within our government are obligated under oath to make choices in the best interest of all of us. Our government at the core is a social entity (we the people) that offers a constitutional framework to support personal freedom and expression as well as a domain that allows an economic and commerce system that should rightfully reward the ambitious and creative as well as rightfully protect WE THE PEOPLE from exploitation, monopolization, media manipulation. Instead our economics and commerce system has infiltrated our government, turned us against each other and has compromised the values, ethics and decisions our LEADERS continue to make on our behalf (we the people) and have ultimately become defunct and in desperate need of a complete overhaul from all the tainted practices of our current “politicians”. I guess I see it like the ‘separation of church and state’. I am a Christian believer, and as such am pleased to have Christ in my life, in my thoughts and hopefully in most of my decisions. But I certainly don’t think the crusades were exactly what Jesus had in mind when he said “love your neighbor as yourself”. In the same sense, and to avoid a similar type of conflict of interest, I believe there should be also be a ‘separation of business and state’…. and I think it should implemented be sooner than later. Like the old saying says ‘keep the honest, honest’. Our governmental system has worked, can and will work again! Bring on the debate, bring on the negotiation, but FIRST get the money out!
you're right how about 1 yr terms for reps and senators 2 yr pres NO consecutive terms
And who are these angels who will come down and incorruptibly represent us? I have news for you. You can't eliminate money. Wherever you remove it, cap it, it just pops up another step up the chain. Ban it? Nope. It doesn't work. Even when you ban it, there's nothing to stop one person from offering another some kind of favor, or promise of future compensation - or indirect reward. That's life. That's human. That reality is with us no matter what political system we have in place. Self interest is fundamental in communism, socialism, fascism, capitalism, and all hybrids thereof. You cannot get money and influence out of politics. So, what can you do? You can find people you trust - and vet them for values that align with your own - and elect them to represent those values. If they sell out, find another representative. Muzzling the people and groups that you don't like is not the answer, nor is expecting to find perfection on earth.
Good site and I couldn't agree more. I was simply highlighting the current most agregious (and certainly most hypocritical) of the bunch. I so wish Occupy would stop all the nonsense that is only hurting other 99%ers (most of whom are going to work everyday providing for their families) focus intelligent efforts on political reform.
Agreed. Crony socialism is bankrupting the us.
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Openspace, I agree. The park is a public place, however, if the police are telling them to leave then they need to respect it. We need to listen to authority. The protesters are getting their point across but it would go a lot smother if you guys would just listen. You're acting like immature children.
Attack? I see, so you want a civil war. Bring it on. How do you know none of the people are rich? How do you know if some rich folks are with OWS or against it? I'm against toy-fascists like you, as well as real fascists. If you want a war, right here in the USA, I'm ready to fight you, defend my liberty and property against your tyranny. Bring it on, kiddo.
I love that this has 27 upvotes and counting!
although my problems are more with the .00000001%
No, look in the mirror for your problems. Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
I don't have any problems other than that my government is starting false wars and committing acts of genocide. They have taken away my rights as a US citizen by continually voting for the Patriot Act.
OWS is not anticorporation and anti-banks. It is against corporations that abuse their power and are infiltrating our government. It is against the abuse of the monetary system that the federal reserve is responsible for. We have a debt based privatized monetary system that is not in the constitution. The abuse of Wall Street, the federal reserve, and the government has caused our US dollar to decrease in value drastically over the past 14 years.
Propose a bill to end the patriot act.
Propose a bill to end massive contributions from lobbyists, unions, and corporate influences. The "supreme" court ruled McCain-Feingold unconstitutional. Obviously the supreme court is corrupt. They claimed that "McCain-Feingold" denied "free speech" even though 1: Money isn't free and 2: 100% of US citizens still would have had freedom of speech and the ability to contribute to campaigns. So how was the supreme court able to say it suppresses free speech? Another fact, a lot of corporations are owned through many investors. Sometimes these investors are foreigners. I didn't know foreigners in other countries were allowed to participate in our government. The government is supposed to be governed by it's people. I feel like most members of the government have never read the constitution.
I'd say propose a bill to nationalize the federal reserve but that bill has already been created and is being reviewed by the Financial Institutions and Credit Committee. Look up The National Emergency Employment Defense Act of 2011.
All these rich people keep telling us that our country is in massive debt... all the while they keep making more money. These rich people are members of congress and the president.
"Both parties are rotten - how could they not be, given the complete infestation of the political system by corporate money on a scale that now requires a presidential candidate to raise upwards of a billion dollars to be competitive in the general election?"
THE WAR IN IRAQ IS BASED ON LIES from Bush to Obama it's still the same war monger.
how about 1 yr terms for sen & reps 2yr pres NO consecutive terms
i like it. I think 2 years and 2 years is good but 1 and 2 works too Also include that they don't get paid for life even out of office.
o k trevor ,sounds even better...we gotta do something I've mostly been a positive person, reality wakes me up to our usa poor position on most every issue.
My suggestion is you look into the Libyan "rebels" that the Obama administration and NATO supported.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/29/501364/main20099014.shtml
This was known before the US gov and NATO supported the "rebels."
This is now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs1aGdidfyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnr0vcwk4I
The slaughter continues. Probably one of the most disappointing moments I've felt as an American citizen. These wars need to stop. The government doesn't know what it's doing.
I see it as the people of Libya were of the most oppressed like the Egyptians, it took a lot of guts to stand up to their dictators, US helped the Libyans in conjunction with NATO, remember them guys ? from Yugoslavia ? The people themselves fought a real revolutionary type war...I think we should always help the democratic movements, best not the Iraq W's model. Soon China...they will see, finally, on their iphones what is happening in the rest of the world...
Please explain, then, why it is, if a big banker has other options, that it is wong for him to be rich when he chooses to be in that position.
ie: My friend Ray asked the question, not me. He can't figure why a man would work for 13M$ a year when he could be working somewhere else and making 23M$ a year. This ain't making sense to Ray, please explain to him. And, his wife is a teacher and worked her last year for $60,000 when other teachers that had not worked as long as she, got $65,000 just because they had a few more hours in college than she.
god denies rich men entry into heaven
MATTHEW 19:24
So, OWS is a religious crusade? A purge of "sinners"? Lovely. What a joke.
Please do remember that your beliefs are your beliefs, you speak for yourselfs and not all others, be they 99%, 75%, or other. Zucotti Park is private property and is not anyone's "home". I wonder, if a person works hard and finds financial success, do the OWS protestors believe this to be evil? Should such a person give away a large portion of what he/she has earned ? If so, give to whom?
did goldman sachs work hard and find financial success? no. they worked hard, found financial ruin, and then stole the taxpayers money to cover their ass! its this kind of criminal activity that ows is protesting!
It is also useful to note that Goldman Sachs repaid 100% of the funds advanced to it, plus interest, at the end of the day, a profitable transaction for the US Treasury. I hate the concept of government bailouts or any such huge involvement of the government in private sector activity. It sounds like you might not be aware that Goldman repaid all of the funds advanced, just thought it was useful to note this. I too hate bailouts, but nevertheless, Goldman did not steal anything from the Treasury, and hence by proxy, those Citizens that pay taxes.
Criminal activity must, must be stopped, condemned and prosecuted, no doubt. I wonder, Goldman Sachs is an entity, for which thousands of people work. My sense is that not all of them are criminals. Many may be hard working people that are doing their best for their families. I may be wrong, but I don't think all of the many thousands should be put in jail.
it's much worse than that
Stole taxpayers money? Nonsense. What are you smoking?
You can only earn so much by fair means--so great amounts of wealth will never be a problem for honest hardworkers.
I sure can't prove you wrong, simply because I would have to give you my name, then you would turn on me like a dog.
Your theory is absolutely wrong. I am the proof that your stupid statement is just another generalization that may or may hold any merit. I have always been an honest hard worker (I have my share of awards, honors, friends, etc), I simply am a hard worker, who worked fairly and much smarter that others I know. And I know a lot more like me. There is my friend Ray and how about that Sam guy in Arkansas, or that Gates guy and that Jobs guy, and - enough??? I suppose all are criminals if we let you set the standards that are fair - but frankly, I don't trust you to do that.
Ronjj, I believe you and agree that not all people with wealth gained it by cheating. Recently, millionaires went to congress and told them to raise their taxes to avoid a super committee failure to reach a deal on the debt crisis. Another like Chelsea Handler appeared on Piers Morgan supporting paying more taxes. I judge individuals by their actions and not stereotyping them. I believe these are people who used talent, opportunity, and drive to get where they are at. I am not rich and believe most who make it to the top worked long hard hours to get there. But can I stereotype and say all people at the top have used their wealth, power, and influence for the greater good of all Americans. No, I can not. Some are clearly putting profits before people and hell bent on widening the income equality in this country. I understand BNB's sentiments but he speaks for himself. I personally hate it when any group is stereotyped. You see it on both sides all the time sadly.
the millionaires are right, if the economy improves they will make much more than they pay in taxes...it's the party of NO...how can it be legal for a rep or senator to pledge/promise ANYTHING other than the constitution ????????
It's possible because the majority of politicians are on the take and they write the legislation as well as heavily influence who sits in the courts. After 9/11, congress overwhelmingly passed a bill handing over the right to declare war to the executive branch (President Bush). One of the articles of the constitution clearly states only the legislative branch (congress) should ever have that power. I would think the reasons would be obvious why no one man should ever have that power, and yet the bill passed by an enormous margin. Find and watch the BODY OF WAR DOCUMENTARY.
you're right, back to the vietnam 'police action' never a declared war. I'm truly ashamed of usa, esp that congress you write about, seems as though not much thought and even less discussion went into that, as the congress tried to seem patriotic, what a mess they made. I really think the ows is the only way usa can do anything to help retake our countries political process...
Sadly, yes. Some do put profits before people, but for many different reasons. The "hell bent" probably do not have any intention of widening the income equality in this country. That just happens as a by-product of their personal greed.
Income equality didn't get so far out of balance by pure chance. According to the polls I've seen, 68% of Americans and 68% of those who make over a million dollars favor increasing taxes on those who make over a million. Yet Grover Nordquist makes Republicans coming into Congress sign a pledge beholding them to not raising taxes. I could give lots of other examples, but I want to keep this short. I do not think the gap in income is a by-product of personal greed; rather, I'm certain it is the direct product of the extremist right wing ideological values in this country. I believe they call their extreme ideas something like Trickle Down Economics.
Good luck and may the Lord bless you always.
And you too - with wisdom, with disernment, and with happiness.
Economic illiteracy is rampant with this OWS mob. Welcome to the delusional and dangerous future. I'm ready to fight these nut jobs.
You will not have to fight any of the nut jobs. The people that support them will either run out of funds themselves, loose interest and move on to another cause, or their ** and their jobs will be exposed for all the world to see and they will realize that they are naked. (see Genesis for interpretation of that one)
Thanks Ipsophakto, see you at the coffee shop around the corner from work tomorrow or in class Tuesday night.
Used to be financial success was being able to support oneself and one's family. Now it is being able to tell other people what to do and buy politicians to assure that your 'success' will be perpetual. Brookfield Properties did not work ground-level to build Zuccotti Park, they used capital to purchase it, just as the financially successful use capital to increase their fortunes (the sole purpose of the NYSE). Capital is defined as the difference between the cost of producing something and its value. This difference is derived primarily from labor, the people who actually make the thing. My point is that no financially successful individual or organization arrived there simply on their own power- they arrived there with the help of many others, most of whom do not get to share in 'your' success. Falling asleep yet. WRONG! You've been asleep all along. May you WAKE UP!
they got most of their capital by cheating because of de regulation by republicans then when it went south got bailed out by their crooked buddies
My you have a great ability to look a looooong way back. So exactly, in the history of man, when did one person become able to tell other people what to do. Have we not always had the Abrahams, the Solomons, the pharaohs, the Kings, the Kennedys, the Waltons, etc. Is this what you mean regarding the position of being able to tell other people what to do, incuding politicians. I don't get your comments about Zuccotti Park.
Profit is the difference between the cost of producing or acquiring something and its value at the time of sale or revenue produced by that product or service In reality it has no value until a value is placed on it by an outside force. ie. A teacher produces a service but that service only has value when an outside force places value on it (ie parents want it and students are available) Profit can be derived from hard goods, soft goods, services, producing and selling, acquiring and selling and various other activities such as gambling. Many new graduates may find themselves unemployed today because society has not placed a value on their specific product (education and training). They can demand a job all they want - but - they have no more right to a job than I have the right to manufacture 10M hula hoops and demand that society must buy them so I can realize a profit. If you are expecting value to be added to your education, you are no less a capitalist than the hula-hoop manufacturer. Even my friend Ray knows this.
And thank you for the NEW description of capital. I always thought that there were various types of capital and that they were produced by various means, one of which involves labor. So labor is NOT the determining factor regarding profit - it still does not create value-only the potential for value. Look at any company with 100 employees described as labor(make the thing) and 10 described as marketers(create the demand for the thing - who actually adds the greater value to that product at the time of sale. If it cannot be sold - neither produce any value. Therefore, if a profit is generated and a person was paid for their labor, they do share in the company success. However, if NO profit is generated and a person was paid for their labor, who stands the loss?? It is not the employee because they have first crack at the rewards.
This is all much more complicated that can be posted in this limited space - but I really question who needs to WAKE UP and I mean wake up fully - not just open one eye to prove a point.
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We believe that they should be paying the same tax rate as the rest of us. Virtually none of them pay that 35% tax rate they all pay 9%through capital gains.
Ok. I hear you. But I thought Capital Gains tax was 15%? I may be wrong, but I think so. Also, I have read that nearly 50% of people pay -0- tax?
If the movement espouses that all Citizens pay the same % in tax (whether 35% or other), I could not agree more. I totally agree, simple, fair. But I think many OWS protestors might disagree and perhaps want wealthy to pay a higher % and others pay much less. If the movement is about eliminating loopholes and tax cheating and so on, and for all Citizens to pay an equal %, I think that is great. Still offers incentive to work hard and do well but ensures that e everyone kicks in. I would also then like to see the elimination of government waste, war spending and so on.
You need to do some research on tax rates. Lots of it.
Thanks Jimmy. Got it. I am not an expert on this at all, help me out: Is the CPr Gains rate that low (9%)? Seems low, but like I said, I am no expert (I work in a marketing sales job for a beer company, hate accounting, not my thing). I want to do the best I can and pay my fair share (and not have govt then waste money). I don't at all mind that others might do a lot better in earnings, as long as we all pay our fair share (I don't begrudge them for doing well, I don't want any of what they have, as long as we all pay a same fair %, no unfair breaks for rich, poor, middle).
Actually, you do. Your assumptions are incorrect.
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We pay way more than our fair share. I pay nearly 50% when you add all the jurisdictions (federal, state, local). Capital gains is 15% for everyone, not just the wealthy. Older folks, retired folks, or smart younger folks that save and invest. The very purpose of a lower rate for capital gains is to encourage investment. You invest money that you've already paid taxes on. The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the tax burden, and you say the rich are not paying their fair share? You are dangerously illiterate regarding economics - and fostering misguided hostility and avarice towards people who create jobs and support this country and the tax burden. Even if we simply decided to eat the rich, and take every last dollar they own, and liquidate all of their assets, the total wouldn't even make a dent in our annual budget deficit. Wake up and smell the real reality. The short term loans to banks were paid back - often with a gain for tax ayers. Had those loans not been offered, the job losses would have been devastating. The government is in no position to be able to give hundreds of millions of people "free" money (which is really just debt) and borrow from future demand. We can't eat the rich for dinner. Even if we do, there will be no breakfast the next day. Wake up, get the facts, and don't e blinded by the damaging hyperbole and class war mongering of OWS. There are many reasons to be mad at the government and particularly the federal reserve. Being ad at wealthy people is a dead end.
I just wrote an article on how the Occupants of Occupy Wall Street are misrepresented by their detractors as homeless people
http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-now-unoccupied-but-stronger/
Sleeping in the park is just so much BS and BS and BS. You need to get your act together and STOP the craziness where it is. And that does not mean moving your bed to the lawn in front of Freddie and Fannie. This problem is not on the lawn, it is in the building. I am not saying storm, the building, but someone needs to find out what is going on and make at lease a meaningful plea to the American people this be stopped for the benefit of all citizens. If we cannot fully identify the problem and agree on that first step - nothing gets done that the Police don't do.
I understand where you are coming from, but a movement grows in the grass before it moves into the building. Think of it like a rock band. You can't sell records to an audience that doesn't know who you are, you do that by touring. You can't book a successful tour until you build up a fan base at home. Zuccotti park is like a big home town concert where people who might have never participated in (or for that matter seen) a protest can begin to feel like they are part of something greater than just themselves. Once the hometown phase transitions into a tour, things become more organized and people take the inspiration to where they live and can form their own bands in a style that fits the tastes of their community. Basically it is all a big process of many small steps. This is a long battle, and it's easy to get discouraged if current tactics don't fit our personal ideas of what need to be done.
Don't spend much more time getting organized and deciding what you are all about. I am a very patient person, but this is stretching out too far.
Just pick one or two serious discussion points and establish a plan that I can accept or reject. That is all I ask.
how about you and the rest of us continue the dialogue together, help with the plan
So you think... muhahahahha... just kidding, I wish I was, but just so you know, in 2009, to make the top 1%, the income was $343,927
It's a slogan. Maybe we should put on our signs 99.999% so we can be politically correct to people like you. You need to seriously focus on the issues and not get caught up in the bs
Well, it gives off the wrong impression, that were fighting the multimillionaire.
If you are saying that only 3,126,260 out of 312,626,000 make more than $343,927 a year, then you supporting the argument that there is a huge income disparity in the US. But even within the top 1% there is a huge disparity. According to this article http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html -- it is really the top 0.05% that controls the nation's wealth and power. That's about 1,500,000 people. And these people have all kinds of tax breaks! Muhahahahahahaah NO. Grrrrrrrrrrrr, Yes.
Your math sucks! 312 million times 0.05% is 156,000. But where does your data source? Do we know the real numbers?
yep, thats what im saying, prove me wrong.
Gross or net??????? You choose to leave that distinction out and your $343,927 has no meaning whatsoever.
Sorry, I assume the number is net. Its there taxable income. Counting money that is non-taxable to me is pointless.
Plus, If you run a small buissness, getting up to 300K a year would be easy and still be almost broke. Quick example, my buddy runs a move store, he has anywhere from 6 to 10 people under him at any given time. There average salary is about 20K a year. Just to pay the people income alone, he needs to make a profit of 120 to 200k a year. Then you have benefits expenses (around 1/2 wage) so thats 60 to 100k. Next you got the expense of bringing alive(lights, rent, water, ect) lets say that is at least 20K/y(Im making a low assumption). so at a minimal, he needs 200K to run day to day operations. Now lets say he makes 50% profit ( i think its more like 20%, But this is for argument sake), that would put his gross at 400K a year and he would get paid nothing.
He is not in the top 1% by any means, nore in the lower 50%. But he bust his ass to make everything work.
So your right, $343,927 has no meaning what so ever.
My friend Ray read your reply and then he laughed and pointed a finger at ME. I got a small business too and I know exactly what you mean - Ray hears it all the time from me and the others at the coffee shop. By the time I pay a manager to take care of the day-to-day business ($50,000 plus) and a lady to clean the places ($1,000 gross last week) I am lucky to steal a few donuts out of the breakroom to take home to my wife and I bust my ass 60 hours a week on top of it all. Not complaining, just saying what my choice got me. I love it.
Anyway while we are explaining how the real world works, let me refer to the chart that I drew up for my friend Ray. You see, here is this college graduate, can't find a job, thinks the government owes him one, can't pay his college loans, thinks the government should do it, can't write good, thinks he needs a better computer with an upgraded spelchex.
WHEN the real problem is this. The purpose of any education is advancement of the individual involved. (society, sure - but I got a small chart here). So you spend $300,000 for your advanced education so that you can get ahead in the world. This in some way or other involves your being ahead of the pack, so to speak, you may be a CEO over the pack of 40,000 workers, you may the teacher over the pack of 30 students, you may be an engineer over the pack of 150 that you want to build your bridge. Now, you graduate and can't get a job. The people you depended on to support you in kyour UNjob are unemployed at this time. That is your BOX. Outside your box are a lot of other boxes, working away, doing good, and enjoying life. You got your eye on the wrong solution to your problem. The government just is not going to fire up your Box. The only way you can make your BOX work is to get a bunch of these unemployed people say 50 or so, use your advanced educational training, get things going in your BOX and amount to something. That way you put these people that need a job to work, pay off you highly overspent loan, and GET A LIFE in the process.
On the other hand, if you sit on the steps of that huge empty building or there by your BOX, crying on the handkerchief of that business major who can't get a job, and complain to the HR trained person who can't get a job, and plan to go have a pizza with that marketing major who can't sell himself to any employer and thus get a job and plan to invite that banking major to join you at the pizza place, who is also employed.
Think about it, you got the guts to turn to the government of help.
You got a big BOX, everything and everyone is out there. There are even a million or more workers available with applications already filled out. SO WHAT IN THE WORLD did you learn in 4 or more years of advanced education. If the only thing was to cry to the government, you got ripped OFF big time.
I may not be the smartest person in the coffee shop, but I can tell you this, you give me another BOX and I will fill it with activity yet today, have things moving at a fast pace by tomorrow, and we will be kicking ass by Friday, the envy of the big bankers everywhere.
Now to real life. This isn't about the business world and it definitely is not about ME - it is about the world in general. ONce upon a time I had the opportunity of being appointed to the position of director of a school of 450 students. We had a great BOX with all we needed to survive - but the parents were not, well to do, in the world's eyes. They depended on that school as the major source of income for the community. That became by BOX. when I moved into it. When I left the position ten years later, we had 800 students, about double the amount of employees and a great BOX being help up and supported 100% by the community that we were serving - not only with jobs, but with an education equal to or superior to any in our area and beyond.
Please, take a look at your BOX and see if it is really how you want to spend the rest of your life.
seriously this is not a lot of money.
It's a lot of money when you consider that 90% of individuals in this country earn less than $60k/year (Dept of Labor 2009)! We need to wake the American people up; perhaps this above fact should be well known by all.......then maybe we will all awaken. Please, let's start targeting and replacing those in Congress (ALL) who will perpetuate this unleveled playing field. OWS - branding, PR, surrogates, organization via social media - take our message to the media!
Yeah, the median American income is $27,000. Incredible. And this is who the neo-liberal, neo-conservative axis want to tax more. Taking from those with nothing, doesn't sound like much of a plan.
I dislike labels. Less tax and less government is conservative. What is neo-conservative? The liberals and leftist have ruined America. Definition of median is half make more and half make less. That implies that that those making less than $27k pay no taxes. I have heard that 53% of Americans pay no taxes. I wish I could explain to my wife how we get than $27k from SS and retirement, but we will pay taxes. And we do not have insurance on both and our teeth are falling out due to paying other things. She worked 3 jobs to raise 3 kids by herself, before we met. I paid child support to an ex-wife that cheated on me for 3 years. My kids ate well, dressed well, and got braces. I could not afford dental care for me nor my new wife and spent our money on medical bills exceeding $20k, a third of our income, while I made my company millions. I reported the toxic loans we were buying, turned in millions on fraud accounts, collected on hundreds of millions. Any my 401k dropped 90% in 7 months while my reports were ignored. But more than a few executives received very large bonuses for acquisition of the toxic loans. The metrics were manipulated and massaged to make them rich, while many others suffered. Must have been interesting boardroom meetings!
I made way more than that in 1978 as an unskilled laborer (Title: Rigger), and those bucks went a lot further. My actual and real income has gone down ever since, although my skills increased. We all know how the system has been gamed, but does population growth affect this as well?
So you going to watch a $150.00 tube type TV tonight or a 56inch flat screen that cost you $1,500.00. Just asking.
Economics would tell you that Actual and Real are relative to a lot of factors that you may not be including in your calculations. You see, your own personal real income my be affected by your increased standard of living, and your personal choices, as much as anything.
Yes. As does immigration, legal and otherwise, ad does automation, as does competition from huge labor markets abroad. Face it. There are large numbers of people around the world that are more ambitious, hungry, and willing to work for less than Americans. This isn't an insult, this is just the facts.
"more ambitious......than Americans"? The facts are workers abroad are being exploited for their cheap labor. You have your facts confused.
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you can't make a generalization like that. how many of them don't have college degrees and live in the midwest where the cost of living can get them a very nice lifestyle for $60K?
If people want to make more money, they know where to go.
I stated "90% of individuals in this country earn less than $60k/year", a Dept. of Labor (2009) statistic which isn't a generalization. Yaltachick, this amount includes all individuals who had earned income, regardless of background or address.
You need economic literacy before you embarrass yourself in front of the media.
So many under achievers, shame.
I couldn't help myself from responding. For an economic system to prevail, all levels of skills are required. The spectrum is unskilled labor to highly, specialized skills. But you already know this. When one set of skills is compensated disproportionately, and rules are made to benefit the same population, you have a gap between rich and poor that widens. This is a result of policy, not achievement.
And we live in a globally linked economy that does have a full spectrum of skill levels. Who are we to say a very poor person in India doesn't deserve a chance to compete?
Is there anyplace in the physical or virtual world that a rational person can go to escape the ignorance of the GOP?
Consider the advantages of lobotomy.
Yes. You can grow up and realize that a fiscally conservative GOP cares about true self-reliance and equality of individual potential - whereas democrats breed learned-helpless voters. Democrats like social entitlement addiction that keeps people in a cycle of poverty and votes-for-handouts paradigm. Democrats need and want people gently crushed under the weight of contrived government largess.
Republicans freed the slaves and passed the civil rights act.
Haha he called the GOP fiscally conservative LOL. They spend as much money as the Democrats! At least the democrats waste money here at home and not on foreign wars. Also I think it's funny how little you know about your own party. Back when the republicans freed the slaves they were actually the liberal party back then. The republican party has changed from liberal to conservative several times throughout history lol. go read a book.
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hell?
Is 'under achiever' similar to 'loser' or more like 'complacent' or 'non-violent' and not 'materialistic'. All those in opposition to this movement have such meanness in their opinions and an obsession with personal hygiene. I wonder why that is.
Yes, you do sound like a loser. Argue for your limitations,and sure enough, they're yours.
under achievers, or under believers?
shame and/or guilt are relative terms in hierarchy of worse-bad-good-better-best
what relative 'wealth' realm do you live in?
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My friend Ray and I have been talking about this very thing. Why, if a big banker has choices like you protestors do, is it wrong for him-her to make good money in their job.
ie: Ray is asking why if a banker makes 10M$ a year and is happy to do that, when he could exercise his option and make say 20M$ in another job, is it suddendly not a good idea for him to "sleep in a park when (he) has other options" Ray is getting a headache over this one. He saw a guy in the park across from the coffee shop and was just wondering if he was execising his options to make a point, of if his OPTIONS had made the point for him, if you can follow Ray's reasoning here.
How do you show them respect when they are not even showing themselves respect? They are treating the area like a dump so they are getting treated appropriatly. They were told to leave and they didn't so, that is breaking the law and they were held accountable for that, don't complain now.
You are NOT 99% of solid, hard-working Americans.
I am a hard working American, and they represent me! I'm tired of a Government that takes my tax money, and spends it on endless wars, and socialism for the wealthy. If you are a hard working Capitalist, why are you arguing for Corporate Socialism?
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socialism for the wealthy
thats a new one for me. What exactly is that?
you know, when the wealthy CEOs and finacial elite in 08 took a break from reading Friedman and ran to the nanny state for billions of tax dollars, and than finished the book off before getting to bed dreaming of the the enourmous bonuses they were gonna grant themselves in the morning. struggleforfreedom
The short term loans were repaid. How much do you pay in taxes?
the wealthy were given cash, no questions asked. After recieving the tax dollars the CEOs and financial elite bought themselves private jets and granted themselves huge bonuses Elizabeth Warren and many others have pointed this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyew29DsxRc . Also no regulation has been put into place after the mastermind of Greenspan gradually removed them thru the years
The reason is simple: The finacial elites are in charge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2Q6sdh6Bg
Bullshit. Short term loans were given to keep the economy from seizing. The loans facilitated cash flow so that businesses wouldn't freeze from an inability to make transactions, so depositors could still make transactions, so people could still get loans. Your lack of economic literacy is dangerously misguided. Those loans were short term, just to prime the pump and to keep hundreds of millions from losing their jobs from a potentially much larger collapse. Those loans were repaid - often with a gain for taxpayers - when equity stakes were taken by the government, then liquidated for a profit to the government.
Corporate Welfare, Bank Bailouts, Oil Subsidies, No Bid Contract = Corporate Socialism or Crony Capitalism. Both terms work. What we have is a perversion of both Capitalism and Socialism. Capitalism for the Poor, Socialism for the Rich. Or, Private Profits and Public Losses.
That's how the rich keep getting richer. There are those that get rich from innovation and hard work, and those that get richer through exploiting the corrupt system. We need to be able to differentiate the two and target the corrupt system that empowers the exploiters. Decentralizing Power, and empowering individuals to make better choices in the Market, and in their Lives, has always been the solution.
Teach people to grow food and adapt to the environment and you won't have hunger. Without hunger, the foundation of poverty is relieved. Now times that by water, then energy, then education, then...you have a free society.
The loans to banks were paid back. And tell us, how much of our GDP goes to oil subsidies? Crony socialism is far far larger, by several orders of magnitude. The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the tax burden. The poor pay no income tax at all, or even get a check, making their tax rate negative 9%.
Oil subsidies are relatively small, yet if you ended the subsidies (which encourage exploration for domestic supply), you would harm the poor the most - via higher gas and energy prices. Just ask anyone in Europe.
And the 1% is laughing all the way to the bank.
Well , who laughs last, laughs the most , friend , in time you ll see.
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Don't drag ME into your 99% argument. I don't associate with people who don't work and don't pay taxes because they choose not to. I am not part of your so called '99%'. That is what is so embarassing about this whole thing. You think you represent the working man and the NYPD but you really just represent your freeloading selves. WAKE UP. GET A JOB.
You really need to wake up - people would LOVE to find a job and pay taxes but unless you are on another planet, you would know that people who HAVE worked hard all their lives have lost jobs, businesses have closed, and finding new jobs is not as easy as just walking in somewhere and saying 'hire me.' You think you represent those good, honest, hard working Americans? Get a clue. Any idea how many have lost homes that they COULD afford until they lost their jobs. They're not lazy, they're victims of a broken economy. Be grateful - not arrogant. It could happen to you, too.
Here Here!
hey find someone who can help at bed i dont think you can find here
Because the surest way to find a job is to live in a park downtown for two months? Sorry, when the economy is tough, you have to look HARDER for a job, not take two months off to go urban camping.
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It HAS happened to plenty of us. It happened to me. The RE market crashed, I lost my job four weeks later. I started working for myself and purposely went off of unemployment. I hustled. I lived on Ramen. No health insurance. I did it and I'm better off for it. You're hoping for jobs to be created so that you can go work for someone else who can fire you/lay you off again? What this is, is a complete breakdown in a person's self worth. I'm sorry for you folks, sitting out there in the cold, upset that people are smarter than you and figured out how to get around an economic snafu and benefit from it. The government isn't responsible for you; you're responsible for you. You CAN make money in this economy. Just have to wise up and stop blaming others.
This isn't about being smarter than someone else or fulfilling a persons right to assemble against the forces that our ruining our country. Sure... you're a success story... but, count it as luck in today's age.
I am a Veteran of 8 years in the Army. I've seen what our country has done to it's citizens by offering jobs overseas instead of here, where they are needed. I've seen friends thrown from their homes while they struggled to make the payments on their homes, while trying to raise an American family. Not every story is like you friend. Not everyone can or has the ability to become a person self-proclaimed businessman. But even still... this isn't about bums and hippies in a park, complaining about how they can't get a job. This is about how America has become the heaping pile of garbage it is today, as we're taken advantage of and repressed in our American rights daily. It's about everything I signed up for, that I thought I was protecting.
For once, stand back. Take a look at a country full of people who are different than you. Given other opportunity or none at all. Equality flushed down the drain and your dollar sold off to the cheapest bidder. Don't always equate things within yourself and be a little more open-minded with the situation... instead of stubborn and rude. Seriously... grow up a little.
So maybe everyone isn't as smart as him and is a success story, why should they be. This country was founded on the goal that all Americans be given the right to achieve, not succeed. Your arguement is 100% bogus and it is based on opinions and nothing else. You call America garbage up don't say why. How are we repressed? Why should we feed people who can't feed themselves? While there is nothing wrong with helping a fellow man who has had a bad day when do WE look back and realize that supporting those that won't support themselves is destroying us. Let those who can fend for themselves reproduce faster than those that can't and the country will once again be full of those who can. Evolution my friend applies to us and the beasts.
America is a heaping pile of garbage? Maybe you should leave. I embrace this heaping pile of smelly trash all day long because whether you agree with this or not, we're still thousands of times better off than most of the rest of the world.
PS. This whole giving jobs to those overseas argument is bull. If you owned a business and you needed to save money, you'd sell the project off to the lowest bidder yourself. You find me an American who's willing to answer the phones for $5.00/hr and I'll be glad to hire them as my answering service. No one is taking away American jobs in this case. We're just giving them away to those who want them more.
you are gay
sound argument.
The 1% couldn't do what they do unless the 99% is fragmented and pointing fingers at each other.
You're not part of the 99%? The 1% certainly doesn't want you. They're laughing all the way to the bank as long as you side with them.
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i know many folks down there who show up at night, while working at very lucrative capital markets jobs during the day--that inludes me! the daytime OWS may work at night, so your generalization is bunk. those who are unfortunate enough not to have a job would like one very much--so are you hiring?? if you're not hiring, you're not doing anything to fix this mess.
you just want to fit in somewhere, get a little "strange", and party. Some call it slumming.
This is ridiculous. This isn't about getting a job, not really. This is about somebody working 2 or 3 jobs and STILL not able to make ends meet. This is about people WITH health insurance going bankrupt when they get a serious illness, this is about banking and oil industries REPEATEDLY breaking laws and getting a toothless response from the government, this is about people's retirement savings getting WIPED OUT because banks and investment institutions knowingly took unsustainable, serious risks. This is NOT about communism, this is not about freeloaders, this is NOT about ending the government. What is it with this fear that some people will take advantage of the system if the government provides quality social services? WHAT IS IT? Are you gonna screw 95% of the people who need serious help because 5% are defrauding the system and taking your money? Do you really want that? If so, you need to take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask what the fuck it is you are staring at. I have a full-time job, I pay taxes, I would pay MORE taxes if I knew I could help somebody in need and if I knew I would be helped when or if the time came. It is absolutely insane to me to think that people in this country are so AGAINST helping people because, supposedly, nobody truly needs help, they just need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. People can help themselves but you can only go so far and depending on where you come from that might not be far at all. The saddest thing about your comment is that you will never, ever see the light unless you are directly affected by it. You will deny it, spin, talk about hippies and liberals. It is a SHAME that you have no empathy for your fellow Americans, not until you are hit in the face with it. And even then, you may not recognize what hit you. You should wake up the fuck up. Change needs to happen. Not fucking communism, so don't get all worked up about that, but change so that hard-working and able-minded people don't get fucked because right now they are.
If you think being unemployed is so great that people choose to be unemployed, why don't you ask your company to lay you off so that you can just stay home and collect unemployment. I'm sure you're not expendable.
Why ? so we can work hard for about 10 years , and then lose our jobs in the end , getting evicted from our hoses , ending up in misery , and in the meantime making your ass richer ? Mmmmmm no thanx man ;-) .
You are so ignorant and uninformed, don't go on this site if you are against it. Leave your negative opinions to yourself! I hope you don't lose your job and then realize you are part of the 99%! Keep working like a slave for the 1% and shut up while you are it!
We live in America ... you want to make money, go make money, you want to get a job, go get a job. The sky is the limit and you will never get anywhere without being optimistic and hard working. So get off the street, get a job and stop being destructive and making a scene. You people have done nothing but created violence, spread disease and disrespect this country.
If you love this country, then why speak against those who are upholding their Constitutional Rights? Are the only Rights that are valid the ones that you agree with?...if so, you belong in a Communist country, where all views are in lock step with the Governments, and any dissenters are shot. I work hard, and have worked hard all my life. I want to ensure that my children are able to reap the benefits of my hard labor. I am the 99%
I find it a bit insulting that you would compare a hard working individual just trying to make a living a "slave". If you know your American history, you'd probably be embarrassed for typing that.
While he or she is 'it' what? Did you ever think that you are not being hired because you don't have the tool set to get hired, like the ability to reason? What is the difference between someone who comes onto your website and complains about what you are doing and you going to wall street to complain about what they are doing? You are so ignorant and uninformed, don't go to Wall St. if you are against it. Leave your negative opinions to yourself! Ludicrious!
The ability to " reason" ? :))) My my we got a smart one here , ok big guy , i may be a fool , but statistically speaking, in a economic cycle some other "smart" guys like you agreed that a crysis will ocurr most likely once in 7 years , so my 10 years were .... far off charts . Geez if you just lift up you noses for your math-books , maybe you guys could see the real world out there :-))
Most of the protestors have jobs. A lot of them probably have better jobs than you do. You are in the 99% whether you want to be or not, and you should be grateful there are people fighting for you because you are too uninformed and stubborn to see the reality of the situation and to fend for yourself.
You are a helpless victim and you don't even know it yet, and by the time people like you have lost their ability to maintain basic human rights and necessities, it will be too late for all of us.
Instead of fighting your own kin, why don't you get a clue?
"get a job" things old man...plenty of folks w/jobs out there shoutin'...get over it...you will get drown out by the masses (w/jobs)...I STAY WOKE.
I think it's amazing that some people come to these forums looking for a direction, understanding or even a little apathy. I think it's ridiculous, that others come here to instigate, argue or even put down people. It's sad to see you act this way. For or against this movement... there are some things here that are fundamental and should be heard and understood.
Our rights and freedoms are being approached on, by other Nationals who for some reason don't want us to have them. Our 1st Amendment is being tarnished, as our rights to Assemble and Freedoms of Speech are being oppressed. Other rights are close to being abolished.
The Wall St. Movement is not full of hippies and unemployed leech-sucking citizens. They are Americans. They are military Veterans who have served our country. They are our teachers, our lawyers, our neighbors and our friends. They do not come from another nation. They come from the same soil that you and I were born and raised on. They deserve to AT least, be heard.
There is a message being said. If you don't understand it... then you're not supposed to understand. It's obviously out of your comprehension if you can't realize the danger our country is in. Peaceful assembly is, PEACEFUL. Not meant to be mocked, ignored or abused.
If you cannot understand these 3 simple things. Just go. You're wasting your breathe and only acting like an arrogant "sheep".
I'm a Veteran of the US Army for 8 years. I find our government appalling and in need of change. I've seen many sides of this country, more than most Americans. I support equality anywhere, as our country dictates that. It is our slogan. We need a change and to start living by that.
the only thing about that is if we don't have a dialogue, we don't grow. we need to practice tolerance. i agree w/ everything else that you said except that. i understand the frustration, maybe for now we leave it alone, but we will always accept anyone into this movement once they do "get" it.
"If you cannot understand these 3 simple things" There in lies the problem, ignorance is the biggest enemy of democracy. If people don't understand, than your movement should work that much harder to reach those people. Because they "1%" DO understand loud and clear, but they will always have the "upper hand" as long as people remain ignorant, blissfully or otherwise.
And your movement has already gotten attention from many people, which is why they ask for the resolution or the direction or the next step. The protesting and demonstrations have served their purpose - there is great awareness, there is capacity for dialogue among would be allies... unless of course the occupiers continue to do things that further alienate the people who they need solidarity with but creating more of a nuisance than awareness.
Points well taken.
How exactly is your freedom of speech being "abolished"? Camping illegally isn't free speech, it is breaking the law. Nobody is being muzzled, though many in OWS would like to arbitrarily muzzle groups of people that they don't agree with. You are perfectly able to speak freely, and legally, but you have to respect the law and the rights of others to do the same, and not impinge on the freedom of others.
I think part of the problem is that it is difficult to "respect the law" when the rich and powerful thumb their noses at it, our government has ignored the law by not even trying government officials responsible for an unjustified war, using torture, and supporting egregious abuses of the financial system. To call attention to abuse of the laws at the highest levels by abusing a few city ordinances doesn't seem so terrible, somehow.
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Scumbag 1%:
says property is sacred and money is free speech.
steals our property while attacking our right to free speech.
Private property and free speech are sacred. These pillars distinguish the USA from much of the rest of the world. Exactly what property was stolen from you? Were you breaking the law, thus surrendering your rights? Is free speech protected even if you are trespassing to exercise that right? No. If you abide by the law, it won't stop you.
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What property did they steal from you? Did you own the ground you were occupying?
tents, sleeping bags, generators, food, kitchen supplies, clothing, art supplies, etc.
Did we own the ground itself? Depends how you define ownership. The native people from whom southern Manhattan was originally taken certainly had a different definition of ownership than the 1%.
your rights were violated file a civil rights suit the gov cannot afford police court costs and looking like dictators
Ridiculous, facile argument. You don't even know your own rights and freedom. You have no respect for the liberty and property of others, thus you lost yours. You're a child, touching the hot stove for the first time. Grow up.
Revolting against unfair heavy handed practices and corruption is childish? Were the founding fathers childish for not respecting the established powers of that time period? You reprimand this child for daring to challenge authority and question the rule of the land. History is replete with examples of childish people doing this. Ever heard of the Declaration of Independence.
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I know my rights. For instance, I have the right to ban you from this site for ageism and trolling.
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and you're one of the native people? how old ARE YOU? You must be like the 8th wonder of the world...
Sounds much younger, and much wiser than you. The irony!
regardless...I'm 28. Same age group as most of the protestors, except I am strongly against this entire generation of spoiled overpriviledged children.
"entire", as in the whole? Wow talk about a generalization!
Open your mind, and listen. That was an analogy...
I take a bow in front of those people who still think America is a democratic country and respects its people. Unfortunately these days we witness the rise of true heroes from among simple people, who stand up for their beliefs and keep their faith in a better world. I wish I had been able to be there with you. Congratulations and do not lose hope!
It is not perfect, but neither are most other countries in the world. We continue to improve it.
the basic dialoge is between optimism and struggle.
optimism,without struggle is a drug culture, greed, without the exloitation of pain: take this, and the pain will go away. believe this-better, buy this.
struggle, without optimism is a lost cause: cynical, a fault-finding belief system of distrust
Were not a Democratic country, never have been. Were a Republic. Major differences in the two, even though a Republic inherit some ideas of a Democracy, we also inherit ideas from Monarchy and Tyranny.
It's pointless to point out to them that the US is a constitutional republic , and not a Democracy. They are to far brainwashed to pick up an American Civics book , or even use wikipedia.
I know sad....
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funny they break the law everyday..big corporations our government... but it's ok that they do it.. they want people to live on the streets but don't want to see it in their face... ??? wow so we are trying to hide a big problem America has. hypocrites. greed. i hope the homeless problems grows..then what will they do? ship us off to another country like they do the trash?????
What law does the government break every day?
What "big corporation" does the same?
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Repost: This is ridiculous. This isn't about getting a job, not really. This is about somebody working 2 or 3 jobs and STILL not able to make ends meet. This is about people WITH health insurance going bankrupt when they get a serious illness, this is about banking and oil industries REPEATEDLY breaking laws and getting a toothless response from the government, this is about people's retirement savings getting WIPED OUT because banks and investment institutions knowingly took unsustainable serious risks. This is NOT about communism, this is not about freeloaders, this is NOT about ending the government. What is it with this fear that some people will take advantage of the system if the government provides quality social services? WHAT IS IT? Are you gonna screw 95% of the people who need serious help because 5% are defrauding the system and taking your money? Do you really want that? If so, you need to take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask what it is you are staring at. I have a full-time job, I pay taxes, I would pay MORE taxes if I knew I could help somebody in need and if I knew I would be helped when or if the time came. It is absolutely insane to me to think that people in this country are so AGAINST helping people because, supposedly, nobody truly needs help, they just need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. People can help themselves but you can only go so far and depending on where you come from that might not be far at all. The saddest thing about your comment is that you will never, ever see the light unless you are directly affected by it. You will deny it, spin, talk about hippies and liberals. It is a SHAME that you have no empathy for your fellow Americans, not until you are hit in the face with it. And even then, you may not recognize what hit you. You should wake up. Change needs to happen. Not communism, so don't get all worked up about that, but change so that hard-working and able-minded people don't get screwed because right now they are.
Hear, hear!
Yes!!
You have some excellent points. If only eloquently stated things like this were more frequent.
Unfortunately, squatting in the park will not change any of that. Might inspire people to get mad about it, yes. Might present them with the opportunity to have a civic discussion about it with people who they would other wise never be exposed to, yes. Might make people who ignore it finally think about it for a split second yes. But ultimately, alone, will not change it. The split second is here, my humble suggestion is to take the energy and research who the culprits behind these actions are, the ones responsible, the ones who make command decisions, and then take action. Write, call and show up to your representatives. Enlist the DA's offices. Initiate boycotts. Plan demonstrations at key places, much like the Tar Sands activities. Write press releases and bombard our..."media". i mean if you're going to spend the time being in the park, why not spend it doing all of these other things.
I understand that position and I support those actions as well as participate in them. But I believe a lot of people who support OWS feel the boycotts, calling/emailing your reps, and occasional protest or rally do little to garner national awareness or interest. That's why occupying zucotti and other cities was somewhat effective because it was day in and day out and could not be ignored. Additionally, I believe a reason more people do not aggressively do what you are advocating is because they feel the system is already completely rigged against them and I share those feelings. As an example, polls consistently show a majority of people support raising taxes on people earning 1+ million, some polls even show majority support among people who consider themselves republican, yet congress does nothing. At that point you question whom they claim to be serving and find other ways of making your voice heard.
I don't disagree, but again, one has to take into account that just becuase people feel a system is rigged doesn't eliminate the impact that ALL of these people would have if they continue to use the system, even in tandem with everything else they are doing. Its been my unfortunate observation over 17 years that too many people who associate with the label "liberal" or "progressive" or "environmental" etc frequently abdicate their right to vote first and foremost, while the "conservatives" or "right" or what have you will frequently vote towards what they perceive to be the greater common good, even if its with reluctance. The system has flaws but its hard to say its rigged when people don't really exhaust all of their options, opportunities, and responsibilities. Yes there are tons of people who do all of the "steps" as you mentioned, but there are tons more that show apathy or refuse to participate. There is a prevailing air of "if i can't get MY issue(s) addressed then I'm going to take my ball and go home" among the "left" AND "central" side where as in the "right" has more frequency of "i might not agree with EVERYTHING X candidate is saying/doing, but he is our leader and we have to stick by him, we'll sort it out in the end".
(I'm not saying you personally, this is a generalized statement, I don't want it to be misconstrued that I'm pointing a finger at you specifically.)
They were. They were there for barely 7 weeks.
Thank you for stepping away from jobs and housing to let your voices be heard. I want to live in a democracy not a plutocracy. I love Wyoming, but my state practices obstruction politics to favor large corporations. We need to protect the small business owners, and hard working Americans the 99%. America's largest corporations are responsible for toppling this countries economy, and yet we are the ones paying. Thank you again for your sacrifices.
" ALL IT THAKES FOR AN AVALANCHE IS A SMALL SNOWFKLAKE " Greetings from good oll Europe guys , thank you that you exist , your Revolution is an example for all of us , and as the Statue Of Liberty lights the way trough freedom and democracy we trust YOU to carry on the fight and evict the corporate scum so their greed can be stoped , so let them , evict us ,beat us ,and ever underestimate us cause it will be their first and final mistake . We need more people like you .
thank you cleric, keep spreading the word and sending the Love,,,we NEED it! Liberty Square was a sacrifice we had to make for our cause, and we will just get stronger and stronger and stronger. More new people everyday fighting against GREED. We love our Supporters FAR and Wide!
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If you do not understand the movement, it is due to factors such as the constant scamming we as a society have to endure in order for you to make money. But now we have come to the realization that this is not stopping and it must. We all need a better life here in America and we are not going to let Wall Street banks and money makers take and run with all their so called high intelligence creative financing and not give anything back to the society at large that actually feeds them. This has to change and it must change. I do not care how educated you are, how many college degrees you have, how you dress or smell, time has come for all of it to change. No more lying, scamming, creative financing, smart edging or fees tagged on to simply sell a product or service falsely so you can make the money but leave the average American poor and without homes. I also hope the police of this nation realize soon that they need to join us in this movement and not be slaves to their government who does not pay them enough and what they deserve to be paid while they protect our lives each day.
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Barbdoppes, if you want a better life, than make it happen by creating your own company, increasing your education so you can get into a field of your choice - but whining about the stock market, and the riches of somebody else will not help you build a better life. When you produce a product or service that people want, when you help enough people get what they want, then you will get what you want. YOU have to make the effort in the right direction; YOU have to be productive, the government is not your Mommy.
No, the government is not anyone's Mommy. But you're very misinformed if you think the principles that made America great are still in place today. Your commments would have been applicable and useful back about 30 years ago. You do realize, of course, that ANY business starting up needs some capital to even begin to work. Inventory, perhaps transportation, funding to file and create the company, set up expenses, a location to operate from and to equip.... In case you're not aware, the banks took the bailout (OUR taxpayer money) and pretty much locked down the credit and loan capabilities needed by small companies to be able to continue to function. The idea that a bank would loan money to someone starting up is laughable. Not happening these days. Borrow from family and friends? Most of them are wiped out, too. Before you lecture people on what they SHOULD do, why not do a little research to determine if your advice is even possible to utilize. Be grateful that you have what you have, but the world has changed. Are YOU investing in creating jobs? Are YOU helping people get a start by investing in their small business ideas? Have YOU tried to get credit to upgrade a small business lately? I know many small business owners (some in business for 20+ years) who can't get a loan despite an excellent credit history and a continuing profit. Drop the arrogance if you don't have a clue.
Hey, dude - I need type therapy - Wells Fargo took all our money, dude - How can I make it happen now and be productive? No, federal government cannot save me either because they are also part of Wall Street. I don't mean to 'whine' but I cannot move because I have roots in this country. So what are we to do now . . . . then we need some change to occur . . . either Wall Street gives back or the government changes and makes them do so . . . . Wells Fargo took everything we had . . . how do you rebound from something like that? . . . just start over? . . . I am out of energy . . .
ProudCapitalistDude - like your name - dude - you got it - 'helping enough people get they want?' - do you really know what I need or want? - that, dude, is your 'warped' sell-at-all-cost mentality' which is what is drowning this nation. You need to know 'boundaries' of your mind game playing. You are not contributing help.
Anyone hating OWS is probably suffering from some kind of post-traumatic stress syndrome. Take a step back and just think about what has happened in the last 4 years. Bear Stearns, very old company, gone. Lehman Brothers, another institution gone. Merrill Lynch - acquired by Bank of America. AIG bailed out with over 100 billion. Fannie and Freddie owned by the taxpayers. All the banks - bailed out. GM - owned by taxpayers, Chrysler - bailed out. Greece - debt over 120% of GDP. Italy - how long has that country been around - teetering; Spain - teetering; the Fed purchasing unprecedented amount of government securities; record unemployment since the Great Depression; record foreclosures; record student debt; record underemployment. Any one of these events would be considered a catastrophe - and we have all of this. Remember when it was thought that the world would collapse because of Long Term Capital? People have grown numb to the news because it is too much to comprehend where things are. The fact that some people have raised their heads in light of all that is going on is a miracle! Yes, some people have managed to survive the crisis - but look at all the economic intervention that has taken place - we are not much better off than 2007/08. Support OWS and look at the issues and problems, not the labels.
How do you justify earning $40 million a year when $20 would be sufficient - who paid the other $20 million of your salary and for those you who have worked hard after your mom and pop paid for your education - well, a lot of us did not have a mom and pop to pay for our education - all of you got a 'free ride' for something somewhere on backs of others and the rest of us 'spoiled' 'losers' are seeking ways to repay all these college tuitions while scraping away at minimum wage jobs because everything else has been outsourced including the aerospace industry - it is no longer a matter of a 'hard work ethic'.
when 40 million people spend ONE dollar each in ONE place owned by that ONE guy, on shitty merchandise that was made in sweat shops by children in south east asia, because it was a GREAT DEAL, that is how ONE person easily earns 40 million dollars. Part of the problem is a general lack of introspect at how we all conduct our lives too.
I doubt that we would buy asian sweatshop-produced crap if we could all afford the American goods.
Unfettered trade with China is a mistake. We need to reward companies that manufacture their goods in the USA with tax breaks, while adding tariffs to those who outsource our labor overseas. Make the tariffs stiff enough that it is a fiscally sound decision to keep factories in America, and maybe we would have less sweatshop goods to choose from.
but 20 years ago when us goods were very affordable people still always opt for whatever is cheaper. whether it be for a "deal" or brand loyalty or because the tv told them to.
That's very true for most people. Unfortunately, I feel like this is part of why we got into this mess in the first place.
The everyone for themselves mentality stretches far beyond political implications, and we as a species will need to overcome that psychological roadblock if we truly want a better life for all. I'm no psychologist, but I'm pretty sure that looking out for the self-interest first is a basic survival trait that we needed some millenia ago, but not as much in the present day.
I hope that other people besides myself has been educated to the point where they can see how much good buying local does to the community versus buying the slightly cheaper foreign good. However, there is no way for me to, for example, buy a "Made In America" model iPod.
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Ive tried many times to wrap my head around the 20mil and why does 1 ceo need to have that much money. Isnt 1/2 a mil sufficent enough. Ive ask that question many times!?What could 1 person do with 20 mil in 1 lifetime...except to give it away to charity.
Wait wait. Don't tell a man what he can or can't earn. If your boss is making so much that you are sick, stop working for them. Stop making him the money and go get your own.
Wait. Most billionaire financiers have not 'earned' anything. They manipulate markets & debt - and as we know, often criminally - to redirect the flow of money towards themselves.
The man who works hard, 8 hours picking up trash cans, is more valuable then they are by any measure except their own. Priorities, people.
Your argument is based on conspiracy theories and no one here is advocating making money by criminal means. And if your smart enough to make money with other peoples money good for you. And no, the man that works hard 8 hours a day picking up trash cans is not more valuable. They are needed because that is a job that must be fulfilled. However, the people at the top of the chain must make money to buy things for the garbage people to take out. It flows down hill not up.
"However, the people at the top of the chain must make money to buy things for the garbage people to take out. It flows down hill not up."
Oh, silly me. I didn't realize the goal of corporate consumerism was to generate trash to keep sanitation engineers at work. That explains everything.
It does NOT flow downhill, that's one of the biggest myths ever.
It’s funny how some people claim to know so much that they miss the big picture. Occupy isn't about government handouts to lower income folks. It hasn't been about what the country can do for us at all. It's about what the government should stop doing, which is being under the thumb of big business. Politicians have been controlled by campaign contributions since the beginning of politics. Lobbyist play an important role in getting a lot of things done in Washington, however, we are a democratic nation, which has pledged, "BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE". This factor in politics was proven to be a forgotten concept repeatedly throughout the George W. Bush presidency, when the president would relentlessly act with disregard to the voices of people of the United States of America. People if you have worked hard or if you have lucked your way into being rich and successful, good for you!! Now, the issue is that Big Business acts relentlessly with disregard to the interest and well-being of the citizens of the United States. This “Profit by Any Means” attitude is crippling our nation.
G. W. Bush passed a lot of bills that were in favor of BB. And not the people of the USA, this made it easier to ship more jobs overseas, breakup unionization in the workplaces and deregulate fees and charges to consumers. All of these things have led us to where we are today, and not only did the banks bankrupt themselves but they then ASKED FOR A HANDOUT. With our money they are once again making record profits on the backs of Americans while charging more fees than ever. Our government needs to once again be By the People, and For the People, not; By the People, for Wall Street! No one is penalizing capitalism… We all depend on it. However there needs to be more of a Nationalist attitude toward success. BB if you want more say in Washington, create more employment, reward deserving employees with a decent wage, then let voters in your communities lobby Washington in your favor by casting their ballots. We want our country back, plain and simple. BB GET OUT OF POLITICS!!! Politicians listen to the citizens and know, there needs to be change. Real, measurable change.
Agreed. The system is broken. We The People need to rid ourselves of the cancer that sits in our goverment...big business,wallstreet and corporations. They have created a new slave system,very similar to sharecropping, called SERFDOM!
It's time to take this march to the doorsteps of the Mainstream Media outlets:protest outside of Good Morning America, the Today Show, Fox News in the Morning, etc.
We need to wake up olur fellow brainwashed Americans who have been lulled to sleep by these dis-information operatives.
As Occupy Wall Street protesters marched across the Brooklyn Bridge last night, after an occasionally volatile day of protests, many gasped and cheered at an unexpected surprise: Their message was being projected back at them. Displayed prominently on the building at 375 Pearl Street, beneath a giant Verizon logo, was a scrolling chant in light: "99% / MIC CHECK! / LOOK AROUND / YOU ARE PART / OF A GLOBAL UPRISING," and so on. Its creator, Mark Read, says the "bat signal" was conceived of as a "celebration of the birthday of Occupy Wall Street." But how they pulled it off is the best part.
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/11/how-the-occupy-wall-street-bat-signal-was-made.html
LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION!
GO HOME YOU STUPID TROLLS! AND LEO DISRUPTERS!
This brought me to tears. I so much want this to be true: we need a global revolution to overcome the ways of the wealthy and powerful. I so much want to live in a world in which what matters is the welfare of people, not profits.
Thank you for replying. Did you follow the links to Boing Boing?
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/17/interview-with-the-occupy-wall.html
Quote:
Mark Read: Opposite the Verizon building, there is a bunch of city housing. Subsidized, rent-controlled. There's a lack of services, lights are out in the hallways, the housing feels like jails, like prisons. I walked around, and put up signs in there offering money to rent out an apartment for a few hours. I didn't say much more. I received surprisingly few calls, and most of them seemed not quite fully "there." But then I got a call from a person who sounded pretty sane. Her name was Denise Vega. She lived on the 16th floor. Single, working mom, mother of three.
I spoke with her on the phone, and a few days later went over and met her.
I told her what I wanted to do, and she was enthused. The more I described, the more excited she got.
Her parting words were, "let's do this."
She wouldn't take my money. That was the day of the eviction of Zuccotti, the same day. And she'd been listening to the news all day, she saw everything that had happened.
"I can't charge you money, this is for the people," she said.
She was born in the projects. She opened up her home to us.
She was in there tonight with her 3 daughters, 2 sisters. The NYPD started snooping around down on the ground while the projections were up, it was clear where we were projecting from, and inside it was festive.
"If they want to come up they're gonna need a warrant!," her family was saying. "If they ask us, well, we don't know what they are talking about!" They were really brave and cool.
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So heart-warming! Thanks for the link!
PEOPLE over Profits!!!!!
yeah maybe in your fairytale. what planet are you from?
Sorry some of us still believe in humanity... People should always come first.
Most of the protest after some time slow down and gradually vanish because lack of fund support and plateform. Here all problem will be solved "Internet" no need of fund plenty of support and world's largest plateform. I like to join this movement.
I agree whole heartedly. I wish the ows protesters would go "indoors", holding regular rallies, and protests. Simultaneously, we should pick spokespeople, surrogates, seek professional assistance with branding, and carry on via the internet. The social media is the key to success. We should educate our fellow sympathizers with the information on upcoming 2012 elections and ready candidates to replace both Houses of Congress! I consider myself a Democrat, yet, I feel most, if not all, our Representatives including Dem's need to go!
I was watching fox news the five, four are idiots, They were discussing ows and they said nothing but negative comments the worst of which was that protesters are terrorizing children on their way to school. If this did happen which I doubt, How can they prove this to be true it could be anyone. Isn't there anyway they can be made to pay for their discriminating remarks. I am no lawyer but how about a lawsuit. They also make fun of uneducated citizens that are interviewed on the news,I take offense to that, I have no formal education but plenty of common sense, I worked 30yrs for my county in supervision and did very well, I started in the ditch where a college grad wouldn't go back then nor should they,Unfortunately today they have no choice, We need all classes of workers not just the well educated.Check this out. http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-five/index.html
HAHA you sad people think that place was your home? That was a public park.
its funny how the majority of these comments have no relevance to the content of the original post. The fight is for power and our relatioship to power.. and as long as we all continue the realtionship to power to give it away to the so called 1% ,they will still maintain power over us.. Us going to get property being taken from us in which the police had no right to take it is an affirmation of not using our power.. Asking for a job and asking for more monetary gain in nothing more than a well crafted plan of servitude entrapment and devaluation.. The wealth of people has never been in money or occupation.. the wealth of people is in ourselves, our love, and the resources of our planet.. the concept of making a living and just having a life experience being a hard worker or tenent paradigms of slavery and communism.. This is not an insult.This is the expreesion of the relationship btw the master and the slave.. why did he take your stuff in the 1st place.. Because of a public health hazard!!! Really.. Bayer sold aspirin tainted with aids to over 10 millon people and that was not a public health hazard to be comfiscated. no its was lucrative and profitable to maintain the disease and sickness of people because we foolishly trust them.. I don't trust none of them for they are nor worthy of my trust.. i like the spirit of this movement but we have to get to the real core problem and not expose just the symptoms of this disease called monetary economics.. its about regaining our power!!! now who wants to get now!!!!!!
this last crap the city is pulling is harassment
Educate the masses generally and tyranny and oppression of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of a new day.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
EVERY GENERATION NEEDS A NEW REVOLUTION Thomas Jefferson
Yes. TJ was correct. And this New Revolution is being televised world wide. Long live We The People!
I would just like to take this moment to say that 40% of the world lives off of less than $2/day
even a homeless american is much, much wealthier than the average citizen of Earth.
This doesn't mean that corperate greed isn't significant, but it does mean that many of those compaining about the American lifestyle being repressed needs to quiet down. I, for one, don't believe an American life is more valuable than anyone else' in the world. They are all precious. I want corperate greed to stop simply because they take advantage of the global poverty. I could really care less about the spoiled american citizens.
Signed, one of the lower 99%
I think you've kind of missed one of the major points of this - many of us at OWS are concerned with the connection between American wealth and worldwide poverty. The policies that have affected the American workforce have also affected the workforce in other countries (it might even be better to say that those policies turned people in other countries away from their older ways of living into the "workforce" that produces for export at extremely low wages, mainly because the very people who complain about "big government" here love the tax incentives they get from oppressive foreign governments whose police forces they use to suppress worker opposition). Most of us are VERY concerned about this, which is why you see so many of the kinds of people who have been protesting world trade policies in the past.
I'm not entirely blaming you for missing this, though. It has a lot to do with our rhetoric, which has focused on the problems Americans face. But we do this for a reason - Americans nowadays are much less likely even to know about how trade policies have affected other nations (look at the way we react to Mexican immigration, as if Mexicans weren't moving in in droves because of the effects of NAFTA on domestic labor and especially farming). And, often, when they do know about it, they don't always care (across the board Americans favor reducing foreign aid). We have to get these people with us, and, unfortunately, it means we first have to appeal to their own sense of displacement before we can talk with them about the international policies that have caused this (as long as Americans don't break out of the mental mold they've been put in, the right wing can always invoke the "socialist" boogeyman to discredit what we're saying, because we are opposed to "free trade" (in other words, freedom for multinationals, until suddenly they need tax money...).
Yes, all life is precious. Nobody is arguing that and nobody is arguing that an american life is more valuable than anybody else's. What is odd about your comment is the connotation that people should shut up until they live in a 3rd world country. Everybody knows that 1st world countries are fortunate, that doesn't mean we let freedoms and rights slip by.
highly touted 2$ figure ignores the fact that cost of living is RADICALLY lower than the US. For example: marlboro lights in Argentina cost $0.75, but in the US $7.00--or ten times more. They might make one tenth of what an American makes in dollar terms, but that matches their costs.
Guys, you're missing the point. You keep talking about parks and alleys, tents and cans, but you forget the government is @ shopping while we speak. Buying pills we don't need, buying guns we don't use, buying everything. With your money, money that should be finally paid, and gues what: who's gonna pay for all those weapons worth trillions of US dollars? You'ra happy now that you're getting paid, that you have a job. You're happy with your low role you're playing. These guys are trying to fight something here. Don't let your miserable personal interest stand in their way. At least that. God bless you. Praying for a full awakening. P.S. If this doesn't pay out, then it's our fault, not anymore the 1%'s fault.
I had to fly out on wednesday night. I went to get my stuff back in the afternoon but it wasn't out of the giant pile yet. What do?
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Yeah, then Reagan pushed them out and busted the unions to hire cheaper labor and now planes almost crash into each other because of incompetence and lack of staff. Read some history and you'll see that justice is not what it used to be. It now relies on the dollar.
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Let's protest Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Thet were very influential in the housing crisis!!!!
everything the government finances goes from affordable to ridiculously over-priced... for example: housing, college, healthcare. my college charges 250% more today than it did 11 years ago. not a normal rate of appreciation. it should be in line with inflation, perhaps 40% more today than back then.
if the government did not subsidize these things, then they would stay in line with inflation.
Hear Hear - Add to that AMTRAC, the Post Office, Pens for space exploration, etc.
The government is NOT supposed the be in business, when that service could be provided by the private sector, except those things reserved specifically to the federal government. The Post Office should have been put up for sale long ago. Regarding your college education costs, I agree, far out of line. How much of this is promoted by larger allowances for for federal grants which the education system simply adjusted up to the maximum allowed for those loans.
Finally, someone with insight beyond the end of their beautiful noses. And while you are about your stuff - the CEO's of these two hugh corporations are set to receive 13M$ in bonsus payments this year for the continued failure of both units along with the fact that each is asking for several billion more in taxpayer dollar bailouts The OWS has been howling up the wrong tree if you will, spending time looking for their stuff and protesting in a hole in the ground. You need to get some leadership in there that can see what you see, then get mad as hell that this is continuing and even getting worse as we Protest to the windmills (ie, Don Q) PS - you might also consider the source of this continuing foolishness - Obama could stop those bonus payments with the stroke of a pen - and what has he done - nothing.
If you think occupy wall street loves Obama you don't know very much about this movement... If you look at the GOP field this year, it's not like the Republicans are giving people much to work with.
它的一个革命! ! 找回丢失了。 长住OWS!
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I feel that the occupy wall street people represent me more that the government and the corporations that run the government. I make less now then I did in 2001 and I know many others in the same boat. I hope the movement continues and never stops. It's hard for people like me to get out and protest. These people are on the front lines doing us a real service!
I was at the sanitation facility today with two other members of the people's library working group and we were told that they would be keeping the belongings until Monday and that people could still pick up their stuff then. Now whether this information is accurate or not I cannot say, because as we all know the NYPD rules change on a whim, and they thrive on disinformation. But for those of you attempting to head over on Monday be aware that it is an epic mass of filth and sadness. My heart is broken today after picking through the remnants of what was our beautiful liberty park. Still I know that all things are replaceable and that our spirit shall carry us forward. Good luck my friends. If you head to sanitation bring rubber gloves. You will need them.
...except apparently they destroyed most of the property.
bankers are using our money and treating as theirs that is a liability, theirfore product liability lawsuite should be filed
There is no doubt these are dark times. But average Joe 99 percent is stubborn, determined and creative. Read about how a handful ordinary folk found a clever way around the barriers put up by the 1 percent here:
www.josephcouture.com “Obstruction To Paradise”
NYC: Are you going to be able to retrieve the 5000 books they confiscated from the People's Library?
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I urge anyone who cannot get their stuff back write the mayor directly at his website and tell him that this is city-sponsored theft of people's property!
I am sure he will come down and help you find your stuff. Anyone seen George Carlin's take on stuff lately. LMAO
funny they break the law everyday..big corporations our government... but it's ok that they do it.. they want people to live on the streets but don't want to see it in their face... ??? wow so we are trying to hide a big problem America has. hypocrites. greed. i hope the homeless problems grows..then what will they do? ship us off to another country like they do the trash?????
Just because you do not have a job at a big corporation doesn't make it alright for you guys to attack the 1% of people who went to college for how many years and work hard to provide for their family. Move out of your moms houses and get a job. It's amazing how fast you will be considered part of the 1%.
I've met many people down there at OWS who have great jobs and are college educated, professional school, and have nice condos. They're smart enough to see the problems with the government,,,, as for you? I am not so sure.
Yes, the government DOES have problems. Many of them. I just don't agree with how you all are dealing with it. The people that stole money you have a right to be mad at. My dad and other workers that did nothing getting harassed on the way to work is not right in any way. There is absolutely NOTHING right about that. Most of the people that work there are just trying to provide for their family. They don't take it and blow it like you assume. If you guys take out wall st. and the banks what are you accomplishing? Have you stopped to think about where we would be without them? In even more trouble than we are right now. I think it's very immature to point fingers at EVERYONE that has a government related job. You need to figure out who you are going after.
It's not that people want to "take out" Wall Street or the banks, it's that they seek better federal regulation over these things and big companies in general.
When your dad loses his job because Mr. "I gave myself a 9 million dollar bonus last year even though my company lost 11 billion dollars" needs to match his bonus again, you'll both get why people are aiming to get your attention.
Also, nobody is targeting people with government related jobs. They're targeting federal policy in regards to corporations and the wealthiest 1% of the country. Anyone falsely harassing those with no control over these policies is in the wrong, but you have to know that with any movement there will be people who act out just for the sake of acting out. They are as important as the people who are completely rational and sane, but it doesn't make them direct representatives of the cause.
You have to balance everyone and everything and understand the general idea. Your experiences with the movement are clearly as limited as your overall knowledge of it, and I'm sorry for that.
No, no one took 11 billion dollars from anyone here. They are all hard working Americans that deserve what they get. I think banks understand money and money management a little bit better than all of you, ya know, since it's their job and all. The 1% pay 100% of taxes. Everyone else pays less than that. If anything they should be mad at you. I have seen almost every protester here in Columbia with and I phone. If you don't like major cooperation then why support them buy buying and using?
You do realize there are two major carriers with reliable phone service across the entire nation: Verizon and AT&T.
Of those phone services, only a few phones have a good reputation for quality and are technologically up to date.
Sure, iPhone is expensive and trendy, but really there are very few choices... which brings us all back to the issue of corporate corruption (and I can give many examples of near-monopolies in this country).
While I would applaud if everyone stopped using cell phones, it's probably that most of the protesters find them too critical to every day life to let them go - this includes the ability to update people on OWS status!
I don't really understand your "1% pays 100% of taxes" figure. That's obviously not even close to true. I think that figure is more like around 40%, and the amount of taxes paid compared to the amount of wealth present is extremely off balance so it's a moot point. 40% of all tax money coming from the pockets of the wealthiest 1% is a much less meaningful amount compared to the bottom 90%'s 30% or so.
OWS doesn't need iphones, blackberry's etc. to get the word out about OWS. You guys are getting enough attention as it is. If you guys are serious about this then why go after corporate businesses if you wont get rid of them yourself? They don't pay 100% of the united states taxes. They do pay their fare share. Obama wants them to pay more. They can't pay more than 100% where else would it go? Anything over 100% is extra
as much as i appreciate everyone's contribution to the movement. i really dont like it when upper east side kids just assume the rest of us have been living tax free until now. we protest because we also appreciate what our parents do for us. please you dont know me and i dont know you. its best we keep it that way.
super disturbing. http://rt.com/news/police-spray-peaceful-students-725/
Police pepper spray peaceful protesters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJmmnMkuEM&feature=player_embedded
For an insightful analysis of the movement read the following blog: http://smallcraftadvisorychronicles.blogspot.com/
You should join with the tea party and protest in front of congress ( and the white house). Why is insider trader LEGAL to members of Congress making them above the law? They should also be part-timers, and live like the rest of us do in the real world.
In a Democracy you get exactly the government you deserve.
When Politians spends millions of dollars for a government job that pays a few hundred thousand dollars for a few years, the warning sign is there and problems will occur.
When America gets sick the entire world suffers in some way, it is just a matter of time. The solution to most problems lies in our souls to do what is right for all Americans and not just what is best for ourselves. The cure to an illness begins with understanding the root cause. Blame is not a cure.
quick question:
last week I got some winter coats together to donate to OWS. But now I don't think people are sleeping outside still, are they? Are they still needed? If so, where is the drop off?
thanks
http://mayorbloombergkingofnewyork.blogspot.com/2011/11/bloomberg-has-nypd-burn-books.html
Really tired of hearing about all this protesting crap thats going on back home. We as soldiers don't need or appreciate any of these protesters. No one forced us to join the military. We all are volunteers. We volunteered to if need be give our lives to protect the freedoms that make our country great. So if you really want to protest something protest against the terrorist who took so many American lives on September 11, 2001. Stop making it seem like the sacrifices that we as soldiers make are in vain. We do it for you and your children so they never have to know the horrors of war in their own backyards. We take the fight to them so you can enjoy your freedoms at home.
Took my mom to Mercedes to have some work done on her car, don’t make that leap, we are by no means the 1%. My mother always wanted a Mercedes and she saved and saved to have one. Anyway… They had the news on Fox in the lobby a discussion commenced about OWS. They were not at all happy with the fact that I support OWS and were trying to talk sense into me. Jaja! I was not rude but I have to say it was great to be educated and informed and be able to occupy that conversation. They on the other hand use Fox news to develop their knowledge base for important world news and events. That basically sums it up, people that use uneven stilts to walk tall will always fall!
Hope you all are able to recover your belongings or be fully compensated. I watched the livestream while the unlawful invasion was taking place, it broke my heart. As I told ‘Ruby’ at City Hall, I love New York and the NYPD but this is not the NYPD that I loved when I lived in NYC. They just would not have ever done anything like this. Life is change and thank God now America is waking up and peacefully taking back this great country for the people. I imagine it must be very hard for those in the NYPD who are following orders that support OWS but dare not let anyone know it. A new government imposed closet and gag.
city extended deadline: sanitation 7 @ 56th street open Tuesday,11/22/11- 8 am- 3:45 pm- Legal group announced this at spokes council on 11/18/11
Desde que tengo conciencia soy portador de un sentimiento anti norteamericano que es difícil de explicar y nunca he comprendido cabalmente: ES UN SENTIMIENTO. Hoy lo he comprendido: es un sentimiento anti 1%. Lamentablemente, ese 1% siempre nos fue más visible que el 99 restante.
Con Amor, desde Argentina (al lado de chile, al sur del continente donde esto mismo ocurrió hace 10 años) Los saludo y los aliento con un abrazo de hermano. ES POSIBLE.
Daniel Mosquera
Por muchos años (desde la empieza de la guerra en Iraq) he tenido exactamente lo mismo sentimiento anti estadounidense, y yo soy un estadounidense. Pero vivo en China, y en 2003 (cuando solo tenía 8-9 años), dije a los chinos que me preguntaron que era de Canadá. Pero, como ti, yo también me he di en cuento que no es EEUU que es el problema, es una parte de la sociedad que ruina el gobierno, y así, ruina todo el mundo. Gracias por tu solidaridad. ¡Ocupa Argentina!
A song for OWS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
A song for OWS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
A PRACTICAL SOLUTION FOR "OCCUPY WALL ST MOVEMENT"
I am Premji from India. I am poet, painter, human rights activist engineer and teacher. For long, I have been thinking for a practical solution for Occupy Wall Street Movement. How can we crack down every corporate? How can we create a world without disparities. At last I came up with a concept "Twister Distribution movement" TDM.
Concept is very simple : When a twister leaves, only grass remain untouched! Every detail of TDM is uploaded as a website here www.premji.in (for you, I am in debt of $150 for creating a website containing solution)
It tells the concept of 'OPEN SOURCE PROCUREMENT AND DISTRIBUTION' (OSPD) of products useful to us and save us from the clutches of Corporate companies, Crony Capitalism by creating a knowledge society. 'Acts that one performs for one's own sake should also aim for the good of other men' is our philosophy. It is meant to bridge ideas from the open source movement with FSM as central pillar, free collective intellectual movement, free retail movement and any other movement which stands for human dignity. It is envisioned as the single largest procurement and distribution network across the world, practicing 'Diminishing Capitalism”.
If a group of creative people can meet in 'Diaspora social network', and create thousands of great designs which can easily overthrow the limited design options by any Corporate; if production houses owned by cooperative movement, as per OSPD standards; if OSPD cooperative distribution units can distribute them with the lowest possible prices; and if we ignore the people using branded products treating as 'foolish' (their technique only!); then what will be the fate of every Corporate product?
If we can reduce the overheads of production, then MRP of OSPD products will be reduced in future and inflation can be bridled! Is that not “Diminishing capitalism?
” What if we can design and distribute any product like this in collaboration with the interlinked collective intelligence in Diaspora, and utilize the ethical profit for the betterment of the downtrodden very transparently? What if OSPD can fund every project of FSM? What if it can sweep away hunger and disparity? You can realize this dream! Help me to bring out OSPD to commons!
WE CAN PLUNDER EVERY CORPORATE DEAR FRIENDS.... THE CONCEPT IS HERE... I HOPE RICHARD STALLMAN WILL INAUGURATE MY WEBSITE. I AM WITH YOU FRIENDS. PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS MY THOUGHTS TOO... I hope Richard Stallman will inaugurate my website.
Premji from India please visit and discuss the concepts in www.premji.in
hey there is another thinking person
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Here is a video of dump trucks trashing every ones stuff captured during the raid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9rwldrCVIQ
Wow how miss guided you are - you are the 5% with 100% media backing
A song for OWS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
i caNT beleive the bs coming from some of these comments here,people say im a 99%er if i live in manhatten and go to work lol! have you check how much it costs to live in Manhattan? look we need sacrifice to get were we are going and as far as im concerned im seeing the correct things and anyone who says oh your doing this and that is a content slave , strength and honor to you friends get your things back from the crooks and lets right this ship again and sail in into the heart of the corporate beast.
A question for passionate OWS folks: just what is it that you want to see happen? I was recently in NY on business and spent an hour at Zucotti Park talking to protestors and found a huge variety of reasons to be there, nothing at all consistent. I asked all that I talked to to seek their view about specifically what should be done. Again, very little in the way of concrete thought (the most common was "increase taxes on the rich"). What do you define as Rich ? If taxes were so increased, what should be done with the money? Pay down National Debt ? Pass out money to OWS protestors ? What? Does the movement reject Capitalism? If so, what is he preferred alternative? Socialism? Full on Communism? Hybrid ? And I so, do you see it as wrong to work hard and be successful (do you think that those who do should then give away earned wealth to others that have not done so ). I am curious about what the OWS movement wants.
"homes"?? Zucotti Park is private property. How is it anyone's Home?
Man, you guys got to stop posting stuff on the same day. Give people the heads up before time, SPECIALLY during the marches.
Hahaha, losers!
short term gain, does not make a life time moral.
Well spoken, hotrod.
Many comments off topic, seems to still be a debate over what OWS movement is about. Maybe it's about time for spokespeople, branding, media relations, positive messaging; the movement has the attention of the American people, it's time to go "prime-time"! We've got this "super committee" in Congress trying to trim 1.2 trillion from our long-term debt, what do all the proposals have in common? Lowering taxes for the wealthiest; in addition, all GOP candidates for president are proposing lowering taxes for the 1%. All the while this is reported to us by our unreliable news corp as if we the people are stupid. No talk of increasing the wealth disparity by any of the so called main stream media! Like I said, it's time to go National, we are one!
A song for OWS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
I'm not in the usual age demographic for thinking outside the box. I am 55, white, and part of the working poor. I was alive during the Vietnam and civil rights protests, and saw first hand how solidarity can change this nation. I felt it important that I go hear for myself what was being said by OWS. I met people from every ethic and economic group at Occupy Fort Worth. I truly listened and heard from small but dedicated band of patriots. So I say to all my peers that let FOX News form their views, find out for yourself and form your own opinion.
As this Movement Grows they will be a need for organization with concrete goals. You have to say what you stand for not just what your against. Let those people show up in front of the mayors mansion tell everyone to protest by taking there money out of bank of america dont pay their card or mortgage refuse to work dont buy gas call your local senator representative mayor govenor and inundate with phone calls calling for a reform. This government needs to go back to the people and what they are going to do about it or they will loose there jobs etc... there are so many things that can create an impact if it is an organized effort to focus the attack on these things instead of gathering marching and yelling yes it will get you attention but for how long until there is unification in the same main ideas united u stand divided you fall most people if asked dont even know what they are marching for or have very diffferent ideas on whats going on. I support ows 1000% but now that youve made some noise its time to make an impact!
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A song for you... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
We should be asking the Occupy Wall Street people WHO THEY WANT FOR PREDISENT and figure out what they want. I know that the president can get all of their wishes/demands, but you should take a poll and see who they would vote for.
OWS specifically states that they do not support any presidential candidicy. I, mean, you are reading the OWS website, right? You do read other sites about the OWS, right?
If the system is corrupt, the choice of president matters little. More important that the lawmakers be replaced and that the corporate money influence be stopped. Which can only happen by either the laws changing and being enforced (requires both legislative and executive) OR by changing the corporate behavior (requires new boards of directors.)
There is only one Commander in Chief that can bring us to war, even without getting Congress' usually-required-declaration of war, thanks to Bush W.
If Romney, Perry, Gingrich or one of the other lunatics gets executive power we will be at war with Iran -- Gog Magog.
Solidarity To your protest from a comrade in India kerala, We are closely watching your protest and we arranged a march to show our solidarity towards the Workers and poor and the 99% allover the world who are part of the protest.
One way to lose support or "galvanize" resistance against your movement is to make posts like these. We all know that park was not your home. You knew there would be a raid one day as evidenced by the folks with gas masks and goggles on their faces...bike locks around your necks. You were simply kicked out of a privately owned public park when you had overstayed your welcome. So the police did not destroy your home and they did not steel your possessions. If the truth be known, in the video it seems like they gave you plenty of warning and lots of time to clear out. Many of you chose to stay versus trying to evacuate your stuff or negotiating with the cops. Some of you even locked yourself to things refusing to leave.
Think before you write a post like this one. Your movement depends upon the support of the public and if you post up something like this then people wont support you or at least question your sanity. Its best to post the truth or dont post at all. If you try to play it up with mis-truths or semi-truths then that wont play right. Just sayin...
In real time, the people at the park had less than 20 minutes to pack up and move. Impossible, and the NYPD knew it. Many were trying; a very few refused to move. In either case, they did not have enough time.
Perhaps you can justify why the NYPD had the NYC garbage trucks compressed all possessions...then put them out on tables to be 'reclaimed' by their owners; smashed, mutilated, destroyed? Thousands of dollars missing? Etc?
what post are you referring to?
I agree. Some of their post are not well thought out.I think all the movement needs are mature writers and spokespersons.That way the #ows movement can formulate better ideas,declarations and could stay the course.
Contact The Mayor! Write, Phone, E-Mail... Better to flood his office with letters so that everyone in the office sees them pile up. I dare you to write a letter! Come on! It will only cost about 50 cents!
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg City Hall New York, NY 10007 PHONE 311 (or 212-NEW-YORK outside NYC)
FAX (212) 312-0700
E-MAIL: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/menuitem.bd08ee7c7c1ffec87c4b36d501c789a0/index.jsp?doc_name=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyc.gov%2Fhtml%2Fom%2Fhtml%2Fcontact_the_mayor.html
Watch Thrive...how to Change the World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI2LGmZ_EP4
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/poll-ows-least-popular-among-lower-income-groups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doXBImJpsXo
How can you keep using the phrase 99% when 40% of Americans disagree with your cause?
I am certainly not part of the 1% of wealthiest Americans, but I'm not a part of this nonsense in the streets, either.
Unfortunately for you if you're not in the 1% you are part of the 99% whether you partake in the protests or not.
The only difference is you are uninformed and turning a blind eye because of this.
I understand people like you, I really do. Who wants to get involved with a confrontation of such massive proportions, especially when it isn't affecting you as far as you can tell? But it IS affecting you, you just don't see it yet.
Many of the protestors were JUST LIKE YOU until the problems with this country caught up to them. As these problems spread, they will reach bigger and bigger populations, and eventually you will be left wondering why the American Dream was taken from you in an instant with no possible recourse.
The only "nonsense" is that there are so many people like you fighting those who are fighting FOR YOU!
Its important to also document any items that we lost in the confiscation and contact the Lawyers Guild regarding this. This will be qualified as theft by the NYPD if pressed by the Lawyers Guild. .
Here’s a harsh reality for you. It was reported today that an activist nun in Indian was bludgeoned and hacked to death with machetes and clubs by a gang of 25 or more local tribesmen. They were apparently hired by the local mining company to silence the nun for her work in opposing the exploitation of the land and people.
The sad thing was the men who killed her were the very peasants she gave her life to defend. For the few bucks the mining company paid them, they murdered their own savior. Read how the 99 percent undermine each other everyday all around the world here:
www.josephcouture.com “It’s About Me, Stupid”
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2809092/posts
The people who criticize capitalism are the people who do not understand it.
maybe you could illuminate us keith pffffffffff .....
The majority of people in this country that criticize capitolism have been ROBBED by its constiuents.
Capitolism was and is not suppose to be the govenment of the people. It must be gone. The 2 Houses on the Hill must be upheaved. They do not represent the people. They represent the special intrest who put them in office...The Capitolist aka the wallstreet bankers.
its not that the homeless dont deserve to live in the park its that the park is private property. but this isnt a big issue because there a lot of parks and sites around nyc that are public.
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Only in NYC.... The 99.99% of Americans that live elsewhere go to work, make salaries that pay our bills, and collectively laugh at you self- obsessed dweebs. Your politics are so inconsistent -- D is good, R is bad--- never mind the rich lefties in Hollywood or the president whose family travels the world in jumbo jets (TWO of them).
This is what arrogant ignorance looks like-- thanks for making it so clear!
both parties are bad... it's not polemical. they run a "pay to play" system which favors, obviously, those who can pay more.... thus, continuing a cycle that has become so pernicious to the country that we're in a depression, and a big one at that, and it's both broad, and deep.
god denies rich men entry into heaven
MATTHEW 19:24
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The OWS movement is nothing but a bunch of lice infested, STD ridden kooks screaming everybody's got nice stuff but me. It's a large scale libido regression in which the losers of the world project all of the rage and hatred of their failed lives on a symbol. Today Wall Street is the moby dick du jour. Yesterday it was George W Bush. Personally I think it's great :-) Keep on truckin' kooks!
If you say the white house shooter guy, the rapists, crooks, filthy dope heads are not part of your group, that must mean that you are claiming that they are also part of the 1 percent.
You guys are the pawns of George Soros and the Democrat demagogues
Boo Hoo Hoo, those evil corporations are stealing from everybody. Stop blaming someone else and take a look at yourself. The majority of those "1%" worked their butt off to get what they have. Your solution is for them to give it to you. Man Up. Everything you have is because of these corporations, they make the living conditions in this country the best in the world. Of course there are poor peaople and people who suffer. That is the way of the world. We all feel compasion for them but the answer is not to tear everything down and bring everyone down to the same level. I don't know what else to say except quit whining and go out there and make something of yourselves. Then you might actually accomplish some good and help those less fortunate.
Open your eyes, if you still can't see the injustices, it's because you wish not to.
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I am neutral to Occupy Wall Street - still trying to understand it. One question - aren't you grateful the police whom you've claimed to 'attack' you when they were doing their job, to enforce the law, are allowing you to come back and reclaim your stuff.
That's like saying if someone punches you, you should be grateful to them for paying your medical bills...
But if you hadn't been punched, there'd be no need for the doctor visit.
what legal basis did they have to steal it in the first place? Also, attack in quotes means you don't think beating up a city councilman was an attack? I'm glad you're trying to understand this incredibly powerful, important movement, and as a long time radical, I wonder if it helps to realize that there are a lot of protesters who have just started to become active, it's not a perfectly well-oiled machine. But the people who are putting in so much time for all of us are generally right about economic injustice, and already in such a terribly tiny moment of historical time, a brief nanosecond, have already given hope as well as tangible benefits (lowered bank fees) to millions. Thanks for your interest, and please continue to ask questions, that's what makes the movement strong and keeps it from being corrupted.
Thanks very much.
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We live in America ... you want to make money, go make money, you want to get a job, go get a job. The sky is the limit and you will never get anywhere without being optimistic and hard working. So go to work, get off the street and stop being destructive and making a scene. You people have done nothing but created violence, spread disease and disrespect this country.
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Oh my..WHY WHY WHY do these people think since they pitched a tent in the park that it is now their little colony? This lil movement has a terrible name fr itself...its one thing to protest during the day but to pitch a tent....REALLY! Come on that just shows trash Your groupies in Portland decided to flip the flag upsidedown.....Thats a load of crap. It means distress but they have no right to touch that flag. This Occupy crap is just plain disrespect
Please take a moment to read the history of civil disobedience in America. The English had much to say regarding the "traitors" that we now call the framers of the Constitution.
Occupy Wall Street - I'm all for protesting but you gotta find the time to take a shower. How will you ever find jobs smelling the way you do? :)
This amazes me. I'm an immigrant, I've been unemployed, part of the first round of layoffs when the economy tanked (Jan 2009). Spent 3 months on unemployment and used my non-college-degree brain to work for myself. 2 years later my husband and I are making more money now than we did when we worked for a corporation and have more freedom. This movement is a bunch of cry babies who can't figure out how to pay their bills for themselves without having to be hired by someone else who will say "yes, you're worth my $40k, $50k, $100+K, etc." HUSTLE, people. This is a beautiful country that, through the genius idea of capitalism, will allow you to make money however you want and as much of it as you want. You guys want a redistribution of wealth? Might as well ask for Communism now. Lazy, spoiled, entitled children. Your mommies told you that you were a special, unique snowflake. Go work (McDonalds is a viable option even with your Liberal Arts degree). Hustle. Hustle. Be thankful that in this country you can.
People dont seem to understand its not about people who need to get a job that is the dumbest thing ive heard mybe the message of ows is not clear and what confuses people but it is about taking back america and giving back to the americans laws rules taxes by the people for the people not it is a corporatazation of america where they not the people call the shots and make the rules they have the power and control over us and we want it back!
"however you want,and as much of it as you want"(glad it came out of someones mouth finally)...hmmm...so say i own a plastics company...and i start to make millions...now i want more millions...and im goin to use triple the barrels of oil in my plastics so i can get all my millions...fuck the earth and her (endless) resources?...cute philosophy..and what country did you come from???and dont tell me bout hustlin' that shits mandatory where im from.
I...um...figured 'hustlin is mandatory'...murderkingz.
Thanks dude, that was amusing.
If you're going to tell people to follow your example, why don't you tell them just what exactly you did to make all this money without working for a corporation. This is information that the OWS should indeed be stockpiling and making use of. But the term "hustle" has six definitions listed in Wiktionary: to hurry, to deceive, to store something, to dance, to play a game badly, to sell sex, to be a prostitute. Which of those do you mean?
Also I do dance A LOT.
I became a real estate agent.
Bwahahahahaha!
Seriously. I am first generation from immigrant parents who barely had anything in their pockets and did not speak english at all when they came to america. My parents were able raise a family and own a successful business to make a good life for themselves. I have no sympathy. Word hard/Save lots = Success in life. Point blank period. Cut the woe is me crap.
No one, NO ONE gets to a place of success alone. If you can't have sympathy and extend a hand now that you've made it, then shame on you. Many people have struggled, and not all have the same ability to make it - please don't forget not all people have the same luck, resources (and I mean talent, family support, intelligence etc, not just money), or ability to "hustle." It takes more than hard work. I am sick of people who are 'successful" thinking that others don't work hard. We ALL work hard. The market rewards some of us and not others, but we don't have a free market in this country. we have a system that gives breaks to certain companies and businesses - and more importantly gives certain corporations the power to influence politics. That is exactly why we need to get the voice of corporate money out of politics. Corporations bend the laws for their own benefit, so the rich get richer. ows is asking is for the undue influence to stop.
"Word hard/Save lots = Success in life. Point blank period." Yeah, your or my own financial success is all that there is in life. And working hard and saving is sure to bring it. No matter how other people in society act. I mean, even if every night someone takes the money I made during the day, if I just keep working hard and saving the money I make each day I will have financial success. Which is all that matters. Doesn't matter how other people feel, how other people act - even if they steal from me, beat me, rape me or kill me - what happens to the environment, whether there is anything else in the world that financial success can be a means to achieve. Wanting more in life than financial success isn't crap.
We currently have over 9% unemployment in this country. That means over 13.9 million Americans are unemployed, and there are no jobs for them. They cannot just "work" as Gross Job Gains have declined. The situation that your parent, and mine as I am also born from immigrant parents, came to this country under is not the same as today...my parents can tell me ths, ask yours the same. The employment situation is only 1 part of this movement. Saying your against it is like agreeing with Corporate greed and irresponsibility, Government Corruption, and Financial Sector irresponsibility. And if you DO agree with these things, why are you in this Country?? We're trying to make America better, not worse.
Why....would...I....be....in...this...country....if I agreed with it? You look at it as irresponsibility, I look at it like natural selection. The strong will survive. The weak will live in tents and whine, whine, whine.
the strong will be in tents (like an army)..the weak will be in their (bank owned) homes (thinking) like the bourgeoisie
So you believe living in a tent is better than a home. Hey, more power to ya. Tell me about this tent, murderkingz....is it nice? Warm? Do you have a light? Are you using the free internet that was sponsored by big corporations to all NY city parks to talk to me? I get the whole tent thing, I guess. Move around as you wish, pick it up as you wish, hey you can see the world with your tent and you never have to put roots down anywhere. My friend went camping once and a bear attacked his tent. Do you worry about bears where you are? Or is that where that whole 'hustlin is mandatory' thing comes in?
ask a war veteran or some shit..im not occupyin a tent yet...if i do...im not playin games w/corrupt copers...its a metaphor...protesters are on front lines usually before the shit goes down...just like in egypt...get real,and most importantly get over it..the world is constantly changing
Bears!
Good for you. Many people are doing well. I am all for free borders and support small busineses. You are right about hard work.
However, this is not about the un-emplyment rate. It is about companies that layoff thousands of employees so that the top management do not have to sacrafice their million dollar salaries/bonuses. It that success?
What about the creation of CDOs and the banks buying and selling mortgages betting that they will fail? Because they still make billions of dollars.
I could go on, or do you not even read the papers?
It is really about BANK FRAUD run amok, not jobs.
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Haha attacked, homes, stole? I couldnt even read the whole thing its so ridiculous. Who is running this shit and how are people still eating it up?
they are not eating it up, #OWS is a giant echo chamber. no one else is listening. I asked some friends yesterday, nobody knew anything about a day of action.
when i said they kicked the campers out of wall st. (they do not know zucotti park from central park) most said great, they need to go get a job.
i said, most have a job. the best was my neighbor lady who said, then they should be fired for goofing off instead of being productive.
my mom loves the #OWS crewz, but she was not aloud to go to the vietnam protests, which she said really pissed her off.
It's *allowed... why can't Republicans spell simple shit? BTW I know it's just a message board, but your capitalization is just horrible it makes you seem like you're 12 years old, as does the "mom" comments.
What makes you think hes a republican? Do you want to know what your post made you look like?
I honestly don't care what I look like. I'm tired of dealing with these people who just come on these boards to troll.
Then you dont care about what you are. Do not insult people you know nothig about when your own bias post shows you to be the real enemy. Of course you can do what you like and say what you like. So i shall judge you as i see fit.
Go ahead, judge away. I don't have to defend myself to you. I've been arrested twice at these protests because I believe that strongly in the cause. The only two times I have ever been in trouble with the law. I have a full-time job, and a college degree. I'm not afraid to say that I'm biased, of course I am. Biased against inequality and the lack of justice in the world. I have no problem turning these peoples' own ignorance against them. They're not my friends, they're my enemies.
Your just a bad person.
I think it's ironic how in your earlier post you criticized me for insulting people I don't know, and literally in the same sentence said "you would judge me as you see fit," despite the fact that the only thing you knew about me was 2 sentences. If you can't see how hypocritical it is to stand on a moral platform, looking down on me, judging me for judging others. Then this conversation isn't going to go anywhere constructive and we might as well go our separate ways.
The reality is you're right. I was really annoyed the other day and my post was inappropriate, and I apologize. But I'm not the only one who has been exposed here.
Interesting, still you twist and misuse words to try and prove some nonexistant point. Your succeeding in being annoying.
*you're haha j/k now I'm being annoying.
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On your way to pick up you're stuff...browse on over to the comment sections on other web sites and do a tally of those that are with you and those that are not. Funny thing will pop out. You're in the 1%. Not the 1% you protest about, but you'll find that it's only about 1% that actually think you're doing something worthwhile. Intelligent people will re evaluate their position at that point.
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You're homes? Since when did any of you people own the park PRIVATELY. These are the kinds of statements that further alienate your moment from the people you purport to be in solidarity with.
Oh my..WHY WHY WHY do these people think since they pitched a tent in the park that it is now their little colony? This lil movement has a terrible name fr itself...its one thing to protest during the day but to pitch a tent....REALLY! Come on that just shows trash and disrespect. Your groupies in Portland decided to flip our flag upside down. What a load of crap to disrespect Old Glory. I understand it means distress but I don't care. you have no right to flip it. Hey Mexico has some great land...How bout a march to the border and cross it!
tents are gone man...get over it...its bigger than some tents...in denver they're not only turn'in em upside down..they're burnin em...i wonder why??........................HUELGA!!!!
99% do not support the OWS DC white house shooter or OWS San Diego's moment of silence. OWS does not represent the 99% polls show, in particular the poor. OWS NYC-apple- tent- steve jobs-outsourced to china, exploited workers in sweat shops under horrific working conditions, polluted the land and water supply with heavy metals, earned millions and millions in profits and yet he's an OWS hero...can you be more full of it? understandable why you people defecate on your own sneakers.
Please research what you share before sharing it. Ignorance is what began the American economic decline.
c'mon now, you deny OWS has an apple tent in zuccotti park? OWS members walking around with i-phones, i-pads, i-pods, apple computers.. you're ignorant for trying to push that lie. I know you can't smell what your shoveling because you people don't use proper facilities. ...
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yes but it is different if they take government subsidies of 20 million dollars - tax dollars, our money - and use our govt resources to clean up their park - again our tax dollars, our money, so that park is everyone's
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bloomberg sucks
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Drop the rhetoric please this isn't a scumbag communist movement where we twist reality.
Communism 4eva <3
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"YOUR HOMES"???????? I worked for, biught and paid for MY home. Also paid probably many times what you did for the public holdings and maintenance and you have claimed MY PART for your home too???
I am just learning and reading up on this movement and the view points it projects. I have to say that I do not want to be represented as 99%. Our parents and their generations told us that we would get a job if we had a degree, not big business and there are THOUSANDS of jobs out that that people won't take, why do you think we hired Mexicans to do them. Right now in the state of Alabama there is a work placement program where people displaced from work will be TRANSPORTED to farms and other industry where they are given a job. Most of them don't last a day because the work is too ... hard. There are jobs in manufacturing facilities all across the country with job openings, but everyone went to 4 yr college instead of tech school and no one knows how to use them. While I agree that there is greed and corruption at the highest levels, who do we have to blame but ourselves as many of the former admins and even the current, voted by the same people that are here posting complaining, have all bailed out the wealthy. And as depressing as it may be, there will always be those who do not succeed. As a biologist studied in evolution I can say with confidence that this is true and will always be. Currently welfare programs support and foster people so much that people who shouldn't reproduce are and so they are more fit than those of us who are hard working. They are taking the country as they vote in swarms for those politicians who will promise to offer them scraps no matter what else their policies are. I think I am have gotten a little off track but the best way for us to move on is simply to work hard. There aren't many jobs, open a new business. Find a need, or move. There are jobs open, go to Alabama and they will give you one.
So you suggest that simply by voting that our responsibility ends there? And just head on over en masse to Alabama? With all due respect, your post is filled with double standards. There is more to this than just jobs. We can only blame ourselves if we sit quietly by, participate, and, by virtue, agree with it. Sorry, but that is not what this Country was founded on. People who have the courage to speak up even in the face of danger are an inspiration - not a threat. Should our lives be ruled by fear? Some, who have found true Freedom, no longer live with that fear. And THAT is CHANGE we can believe in.
You focused on two or three sentences and ignored the rest. How are people in danger, why are they fearful? They find freedom by telling the rich that they aren't spreading the wealth enough? Look at Bill Gates or even better Steve Jobs. They are a part of the 1 percent you speak of. Steve Jobs was an orphan and started his company in his basement. That is something to believe in and strive towards, not posting boohoos all over these forums about how hard it is to get a job or the price of college which is about 90% of the postings. We all want equality and people to be held accountable. I personally hated all the bailouts.
I wanted to you to evaluate your position from a different perspective. I can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink...not to be too cliche about it. The 99 and the 1 percent is not just a literal designation. It is about those who have influence and what they choose do with it.
For example: If a young woman was being attacked on the subway. Do you help her? Do you blame her for being defenseless? Do you back away because now the possibility of TWO people are now in danger of attack instead of one?
Accountability is what this is about. Forget the divisive rhetoric and bring something positive to the table as part of the decent hardworking Americans. Help others and don't "spit" on their cause. Good luck with your further research!
hey lazy bombs go find job and dont be unamerican free loader and bunch homos and mexicans and illigal allines just wants to be lazy nobody supporting lazy no good americans
A totally self-absorbed bunch of radical narcissists - pathetic - where's the $500,000 you collected from people? Who is accountable for that? Who is in charge? Most of the stuff was donated to you - do you even THINK of paying anyone back? Of course not - a bunch of spoiled rotten, wet-behind-the-ears radicals that thinks the world revolves around them.
OWS expenses are approved and open for review online. Here it is; http://www.nycga.net/.
let me guess--FOX ""News"" junkie with dumb generalizations who thinks the system of laws is just so long as everyone in Congress is GOP?
you could not be more wrong - typical though of the intolerant, knee-jerk, self-absorbed occupy bunch -
here ya go - via the daily show - game-set-match http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided
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Fourleaftayback should be blocked from participating in this movement. Individuals such as this give a bad reputation to who we are and stand for. We are dealing with enough difficult hardships as it stands right now and dont need this scum.
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Trololol....
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Any organized collective will draw out the crazies. They're just part of the masses. Many of the people out there are educated and hard-working. There is no reason to let the actions of a few crazies set the stereotype for everyone out there. Be a bit more open-minded about the situation and less biased. It's easy to think in stereotypes, it's a simpler thought process.
Not everything is black-and-white, or black-or-white, not everyone out there is the same, not everyone is "crapping on their own sneakers". Some people educate themselves and stand up for ideals. Idealism made this country great and many out there do not want to see it die.
"Be specific in a general way...."bin of art supplies", not "chalk and brushes" so you have flexibility"...in other words you have the flexibility to steal someone else's if you don't happen to come across your own.
Look I am not a supporter of this "movement" but from everything I have seen, heard or read the "real" protesters have a great amount of respect for each other. Making statements like you did does not help make your objections to OWS credible. If you feel the protesters are wrong try actually stating your reasons in an intelligent manner.
Sinead, you are so right. There is nothing at all wrong with disagreeing and having an intelligent exchange. I am amazed that there are people who have nothing better to do than to troll with such illogical nastiness hour after hour. They really do need to get jobs! If they have jobs, they need to get to work and stop stealing from their employers by trolling on the web all day.
Thanks monjon22, I have seen replies like this from both sides of the "argument" but I usually write them off as not sincere no matter what side they take.
But then we run into people like PandoraK everyday in life don't we? The ones that are quick to "flip the bird" when in traffic, the one who gets impatient and screams at an old person who takes too long to get across the street. The ones who walks by as they witness someone struggling to open a door with an armful of packages, etc..... These are people who have no respect for themselves let alone others.
Best Wishes :)
'Flip the bird'? 'Scream at an old person'? Methinks you err.
Matter of fact I don't general even 'dislike' posts unless they are filled with foul language and venom.
But you are entitled to your opinion and are welcome to it.
I'm not speaking of you personally, what I am saying is hateful people such as this person or others on this forum are found everywhere..... so it's no surprise we would find them here as well.
I am simply trying to figure out why you have singled me out when I have approached this forum with the same attitude I brought to a help board for Methamphetamine addicts and their families. Encourage dialogue and avoid controversy in the process.
I LIKE dialogue, I would hope everyone does, it's just harder to do when a portion resorts to insults.
Politics can be a sensitive subject, although it shouldn't be. After all it's how this country is 'run'.
So I don't promote a candidate on the forum, I don't support a party, I stay the middle ground and attempt to stay on topic, which at times it's best we don't and allow the thread to diverge into other areas.
I think my major negative response was when I mentioned as a former business owner in the transportation industry (and former driver) was that there was little doubt in my mind that there is an employment agency that hires automobile drivers to annoy truckers, and I should have such a job because of my experience with such drivers. That was a small attempt at humor. And in one of those threads that diverged.
Anyway thank you kindly for clearing that up.
True. The nastiness is rampant from the trolls. But what is worst is that they are delibertly deleting comments(using the up and down) that are in support of #ows so no one can read them. Most of the commentators have been in support of #ows since day one. Ive decided to permalink. #ows needs to change that one system or get get better moderators. Ive contacted #ows about the consistent trolling and spaming.
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choosymotherschoosjif should choose to shut his mouth if there isn't anything intelligent coming out of it.
If you had something confiscated, go claim it. If you didn't, mind your own business and stop making senseless comments.
Thanks.
I think it has more to do with idiom...after all 'chalk and brushes' covers only chalk and brushes, then you can get into what kind of brushes, so yes, art supplies covers the little things that go with those chalks and brushes and various types of brushes.
I was forced to take early retirement from Suny with v little payout and no possibility for unemployment in order to keep medical benefits for my wife and kids. So what did do? I've started a nano brewer and hopefully people will buy my beer and not that corporate pisswater. In a few hours I'm going down to NYC to pick up my daughter for thanksgiving after her first semester in college. We and she will be in hock for the rest of our lives - in Canada college is free. AND I'm going to go down to wall st and support the occupiers because for the first time in decades someone has seemed to have figured out which is their ass and which is their elbow.
I rather like what OWS is doing, whether I agree with it or not, it's not only interesting, but it's shaking up the people, who until recently have been overly apathetic.
I've seen many posts on here that say 'hope'. Hope that individuals can influence change, that instead of 'oh it's the government's job' it'll be, "IT'S OUR JOB!!!"
I too had to 'take early retirement', even though I owned my own business, my health was compromised by the very act of building that business.
My own children are grown and gone, but my grandchildren have been my responsibility in recent times, because of the way the economy has been...I may not be in personal debt, but I struggle to stay out of debt.
I am unable to go down to Wall Street, health and finances dictate I remain where I am.
What I am able to do is attempt to hold the middle path on forums such as this, encouraging discourse when ever possible.
No one needs my body (although there are many times I wish someone would trade bodies with me for a day), however, my mind is something I can contribute not just to OWS, but to anyone who wishes to engage with me.
I was there in the 60's and 70's and I am here now.
Good on you, Pandora K. The more we are simply bringing awareness as a larger population and not just through the numerous books and movies which have been showing us the inequities over the years, the more the democracy as a whole moves forward. Those who are occupying figured out that you can march for one day and the powers that be say, "It'll be over by tomorrow and then we can get back to business as usual" or by a constant, continuous demonstration make things (eventually) start to move. Hats off to the genius of the occupiers!
Thank you Jpost1.
just today at uc davis a row of sitting people being pepper sprayed it is really happening all around the gov cannot continue to pay $ police eqpt legal costs, sue for civil rights violations....the gov cannot last long, the whole world is watching our gov acting like middle east dictators
great, me too 60's even did time at club fed for refusing the draft. Your mind and lots of others are definitely needed... all the police forces cannot stop this movement, the whole world is watching bloomie and lots of others cannot afford $$$ to continue and since the whole world is watching livestream etc they can see for themselves that OUR gov is acting like mid eastern dictators. they can not keep it up especially if we file civil rights violation add in court costs and the gov will be broke soon....right to dissent, petition the gov like what is being done they cannot last
I agree "it's our job". The people who are worried about breaking the law need to stand up and show some courage. It isn't breaking the law - it is civil disobedience. People are waking up. Once you vote you still have a duty to ask people to do their job. Not walk away as say well "you voted for so, and so, now you have to live with it." It is our responsibility to create "CHANGE we can believe in" and not wait for the Government to come up with useless campaign slogans bought and paid for by Wall Street.
I think I just wrote something like that in another reply. Thank you.
Agreed!
Who cares in Canada if college is free. Move to Canada. The overpopulation of college in the US right now is the reason our standards are down and people with college degrees can't find jobs.
People without college degrees have much higher unemployment rates. In 2010 the unemployment rate for those with high school diplomas was 10.3 % while for college grads the unemployment rate was 5.4% -- roughly half. http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
Yes but the more people that go to college the less important a college degree is, which is why current grads can't find jobs. What this all means is that there are fewer jobs overall and really we need innovation and risk takers, not people bitchin because they can't find work. Besides, many of the richest ppl in the world only have a HS diploma.
College grads still make more when they are employed and have twice the chance of being employed with a college degree. I would advise everyone who can to go to college.
Of course you are right, if I can stop people from going, my degree will increase in value and my odds of being employed will increase as will my salary. Every increasing tuition rates may do just this.
Another big issue is, and I have to wonder from all the pictures I've seen posted on the We Are the 99 website, what degrees do these ppl have? Of course a lit degree is useless ya know?
Also technical colleges are unappreciated. There are literally THOUSANDS of jobs available in the North Dakota oil rush but no one knows how to operate a wrench any more.
Most of the OWS supporters are employed. Most Americans are employed. Those who actually occupied -- slept overnight in the tents -- were probably not employed.
The OWS movement is not only about historically high unemployement rates, it is about economic opportunity that no longer exists. Many people are working and struggling to keep their heads above water. Costs keep rising.
At the same time a very small segment of the population that controls Congress (and so changed laws to suit themselves) are making million off the backs of those struggling. The biggest white collar crime fraud in the history of the world was committed against the American people by certain bankers and financial institutions. Those very same Americans against whom the crimes were perpetrated are the very same Americans whose tax dollars were used to bail out the criminals. No one has yet been charged for the crimes. Obama is allegedly working on a deal that would allow them all to walk in exchange for a few meager mortgage adjustments that would help out a very small percentage of American mortgage holders.
But how are you going to projects lost oppertuniy though, that is in our hands the not government.
Now in response to the congressional bailouts I totally agree .. I think. Those investors destroyed peoples lives and their punishments should be steep. The bailouts never should have happened either, as the effectually killed opportunities for others to replace those giant monstrosities.
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This movement gives me hope. Wall Street took us all for fools. Finally the people have woken up - stunned that Wall Street was allowed to print money, that corporations were declared to be people (Citizens United???), that the wars are actually bankrupting the country. We are better than sleazy, greedy, corporate shills. The good old boy network messed up and woke the 99% from our slumber with their questionable ethics and their inept management of their own schemes. The bankers were supposed to know how to evaluate risk, they obviously didn't, they were supposed to know how to insure against risk, they obviously didn't, or couldn't without a tax payer bailout. I have never been more proud to be an American than right now.
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funny they break the law everyday..big corporations our government... but it's ok that they do it.. they want people to live on the streets but don't want to see it in their face... ??? wow so we are trying to hide a big problem America has. hypocrites. greed. i hope the homeless problems grows..then what will they do? ship us off to another country like they do the trash?????
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Many people were breaking the law when they wouldn't honor Jim Crow, as well. When our politicians are criminals and they alter the constitution and local laws to bend to their greed and prejudices, then it falls upon the citizenry to stand up and fight it. I served six tours of duty, count them six, in both Bush 1 & 2. I stood face to face with the NYPD last night and recognize the look of confusion, resolve and despair in their eyes when you know your leaders are criminals. This movement is about more than the mere redistribution of wealth, although that is enough to wage war over in my opinion, but about the assault on our constitution that has resulted in laws that have been passed taking away our civil liberties. To all of my brothers out there, happy birthday. Semper Fi.
Except that the property in the park belonged to the people who were there and they were robbed of it. Plus, if you were there you would have seen that the manner in which the NYPD cleared out the park did look like an assault!
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Its not your home - its a public space.
Comparing this situation to an actual foreclosure makes you seem out of touch - and trivializes the plight of those who have had their real homes foreclosed upon and have nowhere to go home to.
Like a lot of occupiers, my home was foreclosed on, and now I'm homeless. I think you're the one trivializing here.
I am not trivializing your problems - if your home was foreclosed upon that is awful and I am truly sorry. If it was one of the many homes foreclosed on unfairly than that is even worse.
But it is a different issue than whether or not Zuccotti Park is someone's home. Its a public space and I still feel that comparing what happened there to people having their homes taken away turns people off.
but yes there were a lot of people without homes there, who had foreclosed houses and were staying at zucotti park so its kind of a double shock now
I see your point, but the reality is we are all in danger of becoming homeless at this point. At that point, your home goes where you go.
Liberty Park symbolized everything the movement is about; on so many levels.
Brookfield owned the park, formerly a truly 'public park' owned by the citizens & held in trust by the City. They were sold a publicly-owned property, without voter input, as part of a multi-$$ development deal that they profited from. The only qualifier was that Liberty Park was to remain 24/7 public space, and Brookfield was responsible for maintaining and cleaning it. There were never any park rules, not since 1968.
They changed the name of the public park named for freedom to the name of a former CEO, Zucotti.
OWS's occupation brought to light how privatization works against the interest of the citizens. The City acted on behalf of Brookfield in every single way, and against the taxpayers interests of NYC. The spent ridiculous amounts of money on police actions that were unnecessary and unConstitutional. They even paid for the court filings at taxpayer expense. They utterly ignored court orders and injunctions. They illegally seized citizens possessions numerous times; they abused and assaulted citizens.
And later, Bloombergs girlfriend, who sits on the Brookfield board, received over a million dollars to clean up the park. Yet ...the park was cleaned by City workers, at taxpayers expense. ?
Do you not see even that small part of OWS's importance in occupying Liberty Park? There's much more, that's but a small example.
It was NEVER a public park for at least the last century, probably longer. It was previously called Liberty Plaza Park, but it was always a POPS (privately owned public space - the exact same status it has now), since 1968. Before that the site was a building, not a public park. The space was created by the original tenant US Steel, in exchange for extra floors in One Liberty Plaza, the black building across the street.
Liberty Plaza Park was a staging area after 9-11, when it was severely damaged. Brookfield renovated the site - it was named after Zuccotti for that reason.
It is true that the park rules, before OWS, were very minimal. I believe the only activity explicitly forbidden was skateboarding, or something like that, but the original law allows a lot of discretion in their ability to create rules, especially to promote accessibility which all POPS are required to maintain. The park is to be open to the public for 24 hours - for public use with access maintained - and when it became 90% tents - OWS lost a ton of community support.
Do any of you ever do fact checking?
I checked to the degree that I was able to. Thank you for the corrections on few minor details regarding ownership & possible skateboard rules.
However, you don't respond to my broader point at all.
You are missing the point. People bought homes that far exceeded their ability to pay for them. AIG and big banks made big bets just like the little guy who bought the home that he couldn't pay for and the big banks and AIG got bailed out, but the little guy didn't. Anyways, we were using the park. Almost nobody used the park before we came. It's a cold, vacant lot. People used to just walk through it just to get to the other side of the park. There is nothing to enjoy about it. So, anyways, we were using it to protest and the park is an icon for the 1% and the deals made with government and the 1% to preserve the 1%'s money and power, but the deal is broadcast in the name of helping the 99%. They say the 99% can use it as a park, but really it's a Brookfield tax shelter used until the plot can be profitably built on. You probably aren't even at the park, so don't talk smack to people who are actually there and lost property.
The assumption that people bought homes that far exceeded their ability to pay for them is a fallacy. It may have been true in some cases, however, a tremendous number of people COULD afford their homes until they, and their spouses, got laid off and their income dropped. After being out of work long enough despite every attempt to find work, there's no money left to save your home. Please stop perpetuating that "lazy and financially inept" myth.
I used the park heavily before the protest and was there five minutes ago - so what you are saying is total bs. It was a community park in a busy area that is lacking in public space. It was frequently used by the local community - by people of all income levels.
This community fought Brookfield to get that park - a history OWS completely ignored - fighting when it was almost turned into a parking lot or bus depot. OWS alienated members of this community when it became a tent city and lost many, MANY potential allies in the process.
not true.
Which part?
That cold vacant lot had a lot of fans and functions.
What you were doing was squatting. You did not own, rent or otherwise have permission to use this space in this manner. Your things weren't stolen, they were taken to a storage facility. Be thankful they weren't tossed in the trash, which is what I would have done if you cry babies were living on my property.
No, we were protesting and trying to bring your negative, unhappy life to the light. Also, we did have permission to be there by Brookfield Properties LLC, the Mayor of New York City, and the United States Constitution. Have you heard of any of those? Cry babies....are you old? I think you must be to be that unhappy. You see, you are the reason the United States is crashing and your generation. You refuse to adapt and change and take on new problems. If you find property that is not yours, you throw it in the trash? What a nice person. I don't think you have any values.
Forgive me. I didn't realize Brookfield gave you the permission to live on their land indefinitely.
You don't have - nobody does - the right to deprive other people of their possessions by taking them and disposing of them. No matter what the other people are doing. Even if you think what other people are doing is illegal that doesn't give you the right to violate their rights, including depriving them of their property. Even if they are on your property and that pisses you off, you can't just do what you want to them. The government, including police, has even more constraints on it than you have to ensure everyone's rights are respected. Which is also why, if you were immediately thrown in jail and tortured to death because someone went to the police and accused you of taking their property and throwing it away, you'd have a legitimate grievance. Complaining that people's rights aren't being respected doesn't make someone a cry baby. It makes them a participant in a democracy.
You're right. Having your brushes and paints thrown in the trash is EXACTLY like someone being tortured to death. I'm glad you understand.
Because some constitutional rights are more important than others, is what you're saying? So it's okay to disregard due process rights as they relate to personal property as long as due process rights as they relate to personal liberty are respected? Because, clearly it's too much to expect that more than one type of right be respected.
clearly you're a constitutionalist. that's cool. I can respect that. Still won't stop me from throwing your shit in the trash if you "occupy" my property.
Pathetic. A sarcastic retort to a valid comment. Typical BS from somebody who can't even listen to the other side of an argument. Don't worry, you won't transform into a socialist if you admit that it was a valid point. But I assume from your comment you'd rather jump out a window than listen to reason.
Attacking and stealing? Please!
WTF? That's not even spin, it's a fucking fact.
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Destroy your homes? Are you kids delusional? Americans' pay rent ... etc.
Try moved you out of a park where you were illegally and cleaned up your mess. You are getting your stuff back ...
So the homeless don't have the right to live in a park?
How would you feel if the police came into your home in the middle of the night, clubbed and teargassed you, and the next morning when you came back, instead of seeing your house you saw a vacant lot? In fact it's worse than that, imagine if it happened to your entire neighborhood.
It did. OSAGE Avenue May 1985! Phila. Police wiped out an entire Cobbs Creek neighbohood to get to one home with fire.
Actually the MOVE atrocity was incited by sanitation and truancy violations.
Sound familiar?
The more things change the more they stay deranged.
I lived in Philly at that time. You don't burn down two and one half blocks to get to one home. Those hardworking home owners were left HOMELESS ! All their belongings up in flames for one damn house.My aunt and uncle(my uncle was state rep for Cobbs Creek) home was damaged. The police did it. They did it twice.Powellton Village was first!
Phila was known nationwide for their police brutality at that time,thanks to Frank L Rizzo and the police commissioner that followed. Mayor Goode was a dumb scapegoat. I know what went on in that city.Im from there. I lived in the Yeadon brough across the creek. Burning a whole neighborhood down for one house is totally unnecessary...especially when that was one of the cleanest,best kept neighborhoods in the city!
I covered the second MOVE confrontation for the Philadelphia Daily News and lived in West Philly at the time. And I was at the first confrontation, it being the Powelton Village neighborhood I lived in.
I could not disagree with you.
MOVE presented concerns of firearms, weapons and explosives possession too.
That were all debunked.
One rusted old unusable hand gun and a broken two barrel shot gun were found in the property. No ammunition or shell casings were found in the property.
Police hyped the false statements of a legally blind old man living half a block away who said he saw a MOVE member carrying a basket with weapons. The fact was that the MOVE member was carrying a basket of boards. The MOVE member and basket were actually videoed by a TV reporter at the time. the old man hated the noise MOVE made and his wife admitted that he would say anything to give the police a pretext to attack. After his house burned down in the assault he was more contrite and as much as admitted to the MOVE Commission that he might have exaggerated.
The only explosives were those dropped on the house by the police.
The only shots fired were the 10,000 plus fired by the police themselves.
These are facts that you can find in the Select Commission archive at Temple University.
Exactly What Happen !!
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That would be illegal since I pay taxes on the property I live - or the landlord you pay rent too also pays taxes.
If I owned property and paid the taxes (Brookfield Properties for example) that was being maintained and not causing a nuisance to other citizens (i.e. Zucotti Park pre 9/17/11) it would be well within my rights to have my property used for the use I intended. Even it if it happened that the use was for workers and neighbors could use the park for passive recreation as it had been for built for.
If somebody decided that the property was all of the sudden their home and offered no reimbursement to my investment of upkeep then it is totally within my right to remove them. Especially after 2 months of the squatter not even willing to work with me to improve sanitary conditions. If the the said squatter really thought it was their "home" then it shows what the occupy movement is really about. It is about occupying other peoples rights a la Germany occupying Poland in 1938, Japan occupying the Pacific in the 1940's, settlers occupying Native American lands for the last 400 years. Yes we now know what the occupy movement really is. It is a manipulated fascist socialist movement that would make Stalin proud - he would take pride in how the disinformation was used in the same way he forcibly enslaved millions.
User was banned for this post: red-baiting (Rules)
Did you know that Brookfield received $20 million in govt subsidies? http://goo.gl/LxNrC
Property is theft!
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This post mistakes two things. The first thing is that you don't seem to know the legal situation of Zuccotti Park. All ground space in NYC is sold with the stipulation that a certain portion of it (usually around 10%, but it depends given the size of the building) that it be dedicated to public use - the simplest example of this kind of thing is a sidewalk. The space that became Zuccotti Park was sold to Brookfield with the stipulation that it be used for public purposes based on this kind of zoning law, and thus that people be given all of the ordinary rights that they would have in any other public space, including the right to free speech. The only stipulation in the agreement was that it be used primarily for "passive recreation," which is an ambiguous term that was not defined in the deed; ordinarily it means you can't do things like play frisbee or football. The legal issue was whether or not a protest would be forbidden under those terms - the fact that it took Bloomberg and Brookfield almost two full months to figure out a way around the legal blocks to their action suggests that it's not obvious that they were permitted to do so, and, more importantly, that it's not as simple as saying "it's their property and they can do whatever they want with it." As for the upkeep, there practically is no upkeep. It's a cement park. The only things OWS did were like littering, which they cleaned up as soon as they were told to do so. The tents did no damage to the space.
I'm not going to address the second mistake about Stalinism because it's just fucking stupid.
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This ambiguity needs to be sorted in the courts. It is retarded that no one knows how exactly they can use a piece of "public" property? The gray area is too large on this type of property.
Ditto to the other responses. Plus, the "squatter" was willing to work with the city to improve sanitary conditions. OWS had done it before. It was the city that wasn't willing to "work with" OWS.
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Although I do not agree with the homeless not being able to sleep in public places it is against the law at least in Austin.
Could you give an example of a great historical activist that didn't refuse to follow unjust laws?
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Its against the law in Indiana too. However, firing people when a company is making a profit is not illegal :(
ILLEGAL TO BE HOMELESS!! What the !!bleep!! Land of the free LOL. I guess if they end up in jail for a year where they produce over 200k in gross revenue each, it makes more sense to keep them there if an "economist" is running things.
So true! Another form of slavery has crept in prisons. Victoria Secrets was one of the first clothing manufactures to use the cheap prison labor,instead of hiring American seamtresses to do the work. Most prisoners work for 17 cents a day. Many people who are tailors with skills were put out of work.
Not illegal in Ann Arbor. It's a lot colder there, however. There are some enlightened prosecutors, apparently. Even if it took a lawsuit to enlighten them.
It's not totally obvious that occupying the park is illegal. And just because the Mayor says so and the police follow his orders doesn't make it illegal. Even if it were illegal, that doesn't justify treating people like cattle or using violence on people who aren't violent or threatening violence. When there was first concern expressed about cleanliness, the occupiers cleaned things up to the Mayor's apparent satisfaction. This time, the Mayor chose to spend city resources to force a "cleaning" rather than working with the occupiers they way they had worked before, apparently successfully.
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Sorry not a troll just a "grown" up 64 year old woman. Google "tent cities" where a lot of homeless are living and the trouble they are having with cities not allowing it. AND watch your language!
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Haw!! You have already given out the biggest handout of your life, BANK BAILOUT came from YOUR tax dollars.... then they give themselves huge bonuses.... "People not taking a penny from the government" what is this 1901? All of the BIG corporations that rule over your wallet and suck your FAMILY DRY have received trillions of pennies from the government (your tax dollars)
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This movement gives me hope. Wall Street took us all for fools. Finally the people have woken up - stunned that Wall Street was allowed to print money, that corporations were declared to be people (Citizens United???), that the wars are actually bankrupting the country. We are better than sleazy, greedy, corporate shills. The good old boy network messed up and woke the 99% from our slumber with their questionable ethics and their inept management of their own schemes. The bankers were supposed to know how to evaluate risk, they obviously didn't, they were supposed to know how to insure against risk, they obviously didn't, or couldn't without a tax payer bailout. I have never been more proud to be an American than right now. OWS!
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I was in the military as well as 2 of my brothers and my dad was a blue collar worker his whole life. Here is my thought on the situation. If I buy an acre of land in the middle of nowhere and raise rabbits am I hurting anyone? If I trade these rabbits to my neighbors for firewood and homemade butter am I hurting anyone? I have no contact with the outside world except for my few neighbors. I live off of the grid and ask for nothing from my government. Here is what will happen to me. The IRS will show up with ATF agents and arrest me. Seems like the trading of rabbits going by IRS code is considered taxable income and I did not file a tax return. The other government agencies will step in a bring charges against me for not having my rabbits inspected prior to trading them to my neighbors. Our government is out of control. I didnt take an oath to defend the Constitution when I joined the Army in order to be arrested on my own property by government agents for trading rabbits to my neighbors. Yes it is that bad in American today and it is sad.
Hi sweetpea, are you suggesting that I don't work hard? Which theatres of combat were you deployed in? Me mummy and pappy also served in the military, like the good socialists they are. My pappy served in vietnam, an intel officer and one of the last 100 americans to exit hanoi as it fell. My gandpappy served in WW2, running a prison in france for captured nazi soldiers. I served in Bush1 & 2. Hmm? The parents continue to enjoy the tax dollars I pay from my civilian salary for their socialist services to our country. It is wonderful and I am happy that my tax dollars support these endeavors. You see how capitalism and socialism mingle well together? Put your big boy pants on buddy, grow up and stop your whining.
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Your military family hasn't taken a penny from the government? Somethings wrong with that sentence...
Don't feed it. It will just keep coming back!
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Miketastic sounds like an angry city dweller. Take a valium buddy, your heading for a heart attack.
You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the people down at the park are poor and broke and have no way out. We all want to work hard, but this must happen in a fair system that rewards those who work hard and punishes those who steal money from the people and manipulate the system t have an edge over everyone else. By the way, they took all the people's property and that is called theft (fact), and the only people who are really nervous are the 1% (fact) and here you are, one of their lap dogs, barking at us and defending your masters (fact). That is quite pathetic (fact).
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